Can you live without a car?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Key to Freedom or Ball and Chain?
Sure, cars cost money, but how much are we really shelling out? Chris Balish, the author of "How to Live Well Without Owning a Car," says it's serious. "Most people don't realize it, but their car is what is sucking most of their cash away."

--------------------

How bad a mistake? Balish says that after buying a car, we pay for it all over again in the first five years, effectively doubling the sticker price. Based on AAA statistics, Americans spend a fifth of their income, about $8,410 each year, on buying and maintaining their cars (and that's based on the 2004 gas price of $1.83).

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=434468

[abelenkpe]

1. Public transit in LA is the pits

making in necessary to own a car. Not really true in other cities though. Never had one in DC or SF.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. I rode the bus for a week recently (car was in shop). It wasn't bad but I only

went to work and home. Grocery shopping was difficult. Don't know how people do it without a car.

[SoCalDem]

13. They shop on their way home from work and do it more often

buying only what they can carry:)

[Liberal_in_LA]

18. One day I got off the bus at an earlier stop, shopped, then walked home

I wasn't able to purchase all that I needed and some purchases: Potatoes, cat litter, drinks, were out of the question. too heavy

[SoCalDem]

21. Yep.. those are killers..

I buy those things when Hubby's along:)

One time I bought a kiddie pool at kmart for my kids & forgot when I was hauling it to the van.. I drove the honda that day :rofl:

[HuckleB]

45. I walk to work, so I pick up things as I need them on the way home.

It's really not a bad way to go. Our produce is always very fresh! Plus, more than once, I have waited to by some big thing I thought I wanted but ended up deciding against later. If I had a vehicle, I would have spent the money. Sometimes inability to transport stuff turns out to be ok!

:hi:

[Liberal_in_LA]

55. I suppose my shopping patterns would change if I didn't have a car.

more stops.

[AndyTiedye]

101. Not So Easy to Walk to Work When Work is a Sprawling Industrial Park

[HuckleB]

126. Exactly.

And that's why building life around the auto makes life more expensive, and wastes huge amounts of time for the average human.

[Liberal_in_LA]

131. or walk to the mall. Requires trudging across big parking lot. Didn't

notice how malls are surrounded by so much parking when driving.

[niyad]

41. they shop more often, and, there are handy little carts that help

[Raksha]

129. How you buy groceries without a car:

You get one of those folding shopping carts and take it on the bus with you. It's not easy or convenient, especially if the bus is crowded and the cart is in someone's way. It can be really awkward when someone in a wheelchair gets on the bus and you have to quickly figure out how to keep the cart from blocking them. Also if you overload the cart with too much stuff it gets heavy and can be very difficult to push.

If you think the public transportation in L.A. is bad, you should try surviving without a car in San Bernardino where I live. It totally sucks! There's nothing like being stuck in downtown San Bernadino on a Sunday night because you forgot the buses stop running early on weekends. That happened to me a few weeks ago, and I ended up spending $17 on cab fare. It's just a damn good thing I HAD the $17 too--very often I don't.

I've procrastinated about going grocery shopping for almost a week now, both because it's been cold and because it's such a hassle in general. I'm thinking about moving to the SF Bay area because I'm just so sick of it all.

[Liberal_in_LA]

132. Seems very difficult. I'd have to bribe a car owning friend to take me once a

month.

[angstlessk]

Moved from VA to San Diego...was ASTONISHED when the road I was driving on ENDED ON THE INTERSTATE

I had no choice but to enter the Interstate....I was SHOCKED...there is no road in VA that forces you onto the interstate!

[roguevalley]

79. I live in rural Alaska on one of the few roads. It is -20 during a large

part of the year and there is no mass transit. I can't live here without a car.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

108. I heard that - L.A. has horrible public transportation

whereas in New York City, a car is a liability.

[Hawaii Hiker]

147. when i visit LA always rent a car - thought about trying to do subways but

doesn't seem like its very good...Don't even see too many stations, though there is one at Hollywood/Highland...

[tabbycat31]

2. I just got mine back after a week plus

I *could* live without it as I did but it was very difficult. I was going crazy the whole time.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. my exact experience in January!

[KamaAina]

143. Why is transit on the Shore so suckalicious?

I've wargamed this for my own purposes, and a) local buses come every hour, whether you need one or not :eyes: , and b) they don't even go past Mom 'n' Stepdad's in West End, which, ironically, is eminently walkable once you get there. Not at all like North Jersey where people can and do live the car-free lifestyle.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Wish I could, but there's just no way.

[francolettieri]

5. I live in Phoenix near the light rail

Pretty good transportation system. I've lived here without a car for 8 years.

[Liberal_in_LA]

7. congrats!

[blondeatlast]

40. What area? I'm looking to relocate maybe; I live way north. nt

[backwoodsbob]

8. I'm in rural America with no public transport

40 miles to work.

should I bike that when it is 10 degrees and snowing?

[BOG PERSON]

11. ride a horse to work!

you'll save money on gas.

[SmileyRose]

17. Wait

I thought forcing a horse to do work is cruelty and torture.........

:evilgrin:

[Kennah]

24. How about a man called horse?

[SmileyRose]

113. I'd ride a man called horse.

Gladly. :evilgrin:

[RegieRocker]

115. Really dumb idea

[Luminous Animal]

33. Nobody said you should. Why the umbrage?

[RegieRocker]

116. Because this should read

no, must have my car to have good quality of life

No can't survive without a car. Need car to work for food to sustain myself or will die from hunger.

[taterguy]

9. Could I or would I?

[SoCalDem]

10. I pretty much DO live without a car, even though we have cars

Our Amanti gets filled every other month or so, and I plan any shopping trips as consolidated/circular "adventures", getting it all done in one trip.

Weeks go by without ever using the car.

Once my husband retires that will be times 2:)

[TheKentuckian]

12. Yes, but it is hard and often more costly

[HuckleB]

53. More costly?

:shrug:

[TheKentuckian]

73. Yeah, any instance where I'd have to get a cab might cost more than a week's worth of gas.

Inability to buy in bulk because it cannot be transported or a cab is required.

Limitations on taking advantage of deals at different locations.

Severe lack of flexibility on job selection (negative income) both in schedule and location.

Car rental required for even short out of town trips.

TIME!

[HuckleB]

90. That's some selective decision-making there.

You're not going to save much by buying in bulk, anyway. You forget how much is wasted, and those deals aren't a big deal unless you're wasting ridiculous amounts of money on crap, and then you're whole argument goes down the tubes. We've built ourselves out of actual flexibility by building around car culture. Newsflash. I walk to work. I can walk to four different full grocery stores, dozens of restaurants, and plenty of other services. No amount of time wasted driving around for deals is going to save that kind of time and money. You want time, stop building around cars. That's the culture that has truly killed hundreds of hours a year per individual. Stop fooling yourself.

[AndyTiedye]

100. The Economics of Bulk Purchasing Changes Considerably With Household Size

as does the feasibility of hauling it all home on foot.

[HuckleB]

123. The vast majority of US households are quite small.

Thus, it still makes no sense to build communities around the auto.

[TheKentuckian]

110. I said can be, not always is. Circumstances dictate certain costs and benefits

every one does not have the ability to walk four blocks to work. Everyone doesn't waste what they buy in bulk and buy because they use it.

Everyone does not have shops and restaurants and nightlife within easy walking distance.

Your time response is situationally silly, I didn't build around anything. I live in what is built the best that I'm able to manage.

Shit, many do not have a single grocery store for miles from their homes, even in urban centers.

I don't think you know shit about how many live. If I was only going to work within say a mile of my home my options would be limited to pretty much nothing. If I then looked to move within a mile of my work then I couldn't afford a single place with every cent I earn.

Jobs are scarce, you take them where you can and having the ability to get where they are and work what shifts are offered is crucial to some of us. As is saving money on stuff that is used heavily in our households.

[HuckleB]

124. No one said that everyone has the ability to do that.

Somehow you choose to ignore that the auto has actually added huge costs to the way we live, including costs of infrastructure. I know how people live. I also know that it makes no sense to build our communities in the way we do. You can continue to ignore that in order to push your nonsense, and I'm sure you will.

[AndyTiedye]

135. The OP is About Costs/Benefits to the Individual

Costs of the infrastructure, that must be borne no matter what he does, were not the topic of the OP or the poll.

You are the one who is "pushing" here.

[DireStrike]

14. Here in NY, I'm fine without it. Except for the social standing.

Not having a car is definitely "other side of the tracks" stuff. It's not helpful.

[markpkessinger]

71. As a fellow NYer...

..who also does not own a car. the "social standing" issue has only as much validity as you choose to give it. ;)

[alfredo]

15. I lived well without a car for over a decade, but getting married and a real

Job made car ownership A requirement.

[liberal N proud]

16. No public transportation

Nothing from anywhere near my home to anywhere near my workplace.

Tried to take a taxi to the airport once and it cost me more than $40 to take me less than 8 miles.

My family lives across the country and there is no rail traffic or airport anywhere near them.

Give me some options and we can talk.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

I've lived in Chicago for nearly 20 years. I've had wheels for 2.5 years

Our public trans has got to be about as good as it gets, if not the best. I only got a car because I was applying for jobs outside of Chicago for the first time ever. And I still haven't found one :(

[Kennah]

19. I answered Other, but Yes and No would be my correct answer.

2nd car got totaled in June 2009. I used it for commuting to and from the commuter train station--2 miles away. However, I'd been a fair weather bike commuter since 2008.

I continued commuting by bike into the winter, and I endured most of it just fine. There were some really wet days when I woulda been soaked, so I woke up Grumpy and she drove me to the train station. Had to drag the kids outta bed as well, and that was hard to do.

For 2010, I bought rain pants and I've biked through the winter, rain, cold, etc. Snow and ice were the only things that deterred me, but that was only a few days.

Now I love riding every day. Past couple of days have been pretty bitter cold down in the 20s. It's the first time I could remember my hands being cold while riding. I might replace my gloves with something much warmer.

If one had asked me back in 2008 whether I could ride year round, the answer would have been most definitely no. Today it is most definitely yes.

The totaled car was paid for, so it was only costing us gas, insurance, and maintenance. Our minivan was paid off in April last year, so it now only costing us gas, insurance, and maintenance. About 7,500 miles driven last year.

There are things for which I could get by without a car, and I have. However, there are things for which we are very much dependent upon a car.

[Throd]

20. I love cars and I enjoy driving

I work out of the home so most of the time I am an "at will" driver.

[MrSlayer]

22. I've made it forty years without one thusfar.

We have excellent public transportation in Philadelphia.

[slackmaster]

23. I could ride a bike to work and for shopping, but I wouldn't be able to get to my server farm

It wouldn't work out.

[HockeyMom]

25. Not in Manhattan you don't

My parents didn't ever, and I never learned to drive, own a car, until I moved to Queens and had kids after 5 years.

[myrna minx]

26. I haven't owned a car since 1991. I don't know how people can afford them. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Public transit in Anchorage is not too good,

and in the winter it gets pretty cold sometimes. We don't use our truck much, but for groceries and such, it's pretty essential.

[NV Whino]

28. Other

Not in my present location. Due to a medical problem and then some surgery, there was a 8 month period when I couldn't drive recently. It was a nightmare trying to get to the doctors, therapy and just general shopping. I live in the out back of nowhere.

[Luminous Animal]

29. Ooops. I voted live without & a good quality of life when I should have voted that I already live

without one.

Getting rid of my car was the best thing I ever did. Of course, I live in the city and I belong to City Car Share (which I use about 8 times a year) but when I lived in the suburbs, I went without a car for 3-4 years and rode my bike or hitchhiked.

[Canuckistanian]

30. Living in the country, a vehicle is a necessity

There ain't no buses out here.

[LuvNewcastle]

31. I only have one because I have to.

I hate driving. If we had a decent public transit system I would use it, but it often doesn't run on time and there aren't enough lines or stops. Besides, I live in the old part of town where there aren't any stores to buy the things I need to live and they roll up the streets after 6 p.m.

[Lucian]

32. Every single person can live without a car.

The only things we need to live on is food, water, and oxygen. Everything else is nonessential.

With that being said, I don't want to live without a car. I commute to work, and I don't want to ride the bus. A typical bus ride would be 45 minutes to where I need to go.

[FLPanhandle]

34. I'm about 3 miles from the nearest bus stop, and about 3.1 miles from the nearest store

I suppose I could use public transportation to travel that point one mile. Also, I don't think the wife would enjoy manually pulling the boat on it's trailer.

It would be hard to live where I do without a vehicle.

[Ozymanithrax]

35. American civilization is designed around the car.

Public transportation, in all but a few cities, is abysmal. Suburban sprawl happens because we design and build cities for cars, not ease of public transportation.

Without a car, I neither I nor my wife could get to work.

[woo me with science]

36. Have chosen to in the past.

It's a lot harder with kids or elderly family.

[MilesColtrane]

37. I could, but I'd have to find a different job.

[Initech]

44. Same here.

[tularetom]

38. It's 12 miles to the nearest effin gas station

20 miles to what passes for a grocery store, 30 miles to any kind of real retail commercial district.

Hell no I couldn't live without a car.

[FLPanhandle]

42. I want to live where you live!

Sounds great

[blondeatlast]

39. Other. It's a necessity where I live and for my job, but I'd give it up in a heartbeat if I thought

I could.

[onehandle]

43. Atlanta is like LA, designed for nothing but cars.

I've met people from LA who felt perfectly at home.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. I provide healthcare services in rural areas. Not possible without a car, so no.

[nashville_brook]

47. it depends on if you live in a city with good transit and/or live-work options

where i currently live, it's impossible to survive without a car and I'd gladly use other forms of transportation if they were available.

[HuckleB]

48. I walk to work, and walk/bike use mass transit much of the time for other trips.

It's much less stressful. My wife needs a car for her job, and we want a vehicle to take us to our favorite hiking, cross-country skiing and backpacking destinations. That said, if we're heading to Seattle (from Portland) for a weekend, we jump on the train. It's a lot more fun!

[AndyTiedye]

142. So You Still Have One Car in Your Household

That is very different from none. If you want something that's too heavy to carry home,
you can fetch it in your wife's car.

And I see that you also need to get out into nature to play, and for that you use the car.
My favorite trail is 2 minutes from the house by bike.

I suppose that keeping your car in that pedestrian-friendly neighborhood of yours must
be a bit of a challenge at times, since one characteristic of pedestrian-friendly development
is a lack of parking.

[Control-Z]

49. It's all depends on where you live and work. Period. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

50. I Note That His Prime Example Eliminated Her Commute by Moving into the City… DETROIT

Uh…

[Luminous Animal]

54. I have relatives who live in Detroit and love it. Detroit may be down but it is not out.

[HuckleB]

51. So I'm reading (on the thread) that many people would like to have more choice in transportation.

Yet, our politicians seem focused on keeping things car focused.

Hmmmmmm.

[AndyTiedye]

149. Yes. People Want More Choice

Advocate for more choices in transportation and housing and you will easily find support.

Do not guilt-trip people for owning cars or you will drive your supporters away.

[OnionPatch]

52. I'm a country girl at heart.

And they don't run buses or trains out here in the sticks. Even if I happened to live in the city, I would have to get to the woods on the weekends regularly to keep my sanity. So, no, I can't live happily without my car. Luckily, people like me are in the minority. Most are perfectly fine never leaving the concrete jungle and could probably manage without one. (BTW, my car get 40mph, so I don't feel too guilty.)

[AndyTiedye]

134. Same Here. We Do Better Where There are More Trees Than People

City is 1/2 hour away by car. Bike trails are 0-15 minutes away by bike.
I go mountain biking more often than I go to the city.

[ThatsMyBarack]

56. Perish the thought!

[jeffrey_X]

57. It's all relative. I live a great life in Chicago without a car

If you live in a big city, yes. If you live in the burbs or the country, then no.

zipcar and other services make it easier now to go without a car.

[Hannah Bell]

86. if you live in a small town you can too.

[AndyTiedye]

130. Small Towns Generally have No Public Transportation At All

Many don't even have taxis.

I don't know how one could live without a car in such a place.

Horse and buggy, perhaps.

[Hannah Bell]

137. I live in a small town of about 30K. I can walk to get groceries & pay bills via post office.

I can walk to work.

I can also get to nearly everywhere by bike within 15-30 minutes.

We also have bus & taxi.

Only in small towns where the core town has been destroyed & workplaces/businesses/homes relocated outside the core -- i.e. small towns that have essentially been "suburbanized" does a car become necessary.

This has happened in my town to some extent, but it is still viable living for a non-driver.

[AndyTiedye]

139. I Don't Consider a Town of 30,000 to be a "Small Town"

I grew up in a town of 3,000, and now live in an unincorporated community of around 1,000.

30,000 isn't a small town. Small city maybe.

[Skip Intro]

58. I answered no, but of course, I "could" live without a car. I wouldn't just die. I feel I do NEED

a car, though. I like having a car. I don't drive far, usually. I don't like imagining not having one. I feel it is a necessity. But could I live without one? Of course, I could. I think.

[Yo_Mama]

59. Not only can't I survive without my car, but...

...I am currently driving poor people around who need a car but don't have one. And I don't ask for gas money either.

In a lot of more rural areas, there is no way to get to a doctor, an affordable grocery, etc but with a car. These people couldn't afford to live in a city.

I don't spend much on cars. I'm a good driver so my insurance (only liability) is low. And I always buy used, so I pay cash and don't have to pay for comprehensive insurance. And I have always driven small economy cars, so gas is still much cheaper for me than most.

But I do have to have a car. I don't put much mileage on - I was shocked to figure out the other day how much of it was devoted to driving other people around.

Lessee. Last Sunday I drove an old man without a car to the supermarket. And I loaded three trunkfuls of good dry wood and delivered them to a 64 year old who has to heat with a wood stove, because that's all he can afford. And during the week I drove someone 95 miles to a hospital that takes people who can't afford copays. I didn't make it to church, but I think God will forgive me.

A bike wouldn't have done it for any of those. I couldn't get to work, food or help these other people without that car. I'm currently in the NE. There's a lot of people who need help, and even if they normally get around on a bike, they can't now in the cold with all the snow and ice. Also, they have no way to get to a doctor. Try pedalling 12 miles round trip when you've got the flu....

[Contrary1]

60. We can live without a car...Very poor quality of life...

3-4 hours to work each way on foot. About 2 hours each way via public transportation. The nearest grocery is about 5 miles away.

The roads are pathetic, and we are getting too old for the trek.

Sorry; as things are now, we need a car.

[RufusTFirefly]

61. Read Balish's book. Definitely recommended

The good thing about his book is that he doesn't seem like an insufferable do-gooder. He just a "regular guy" who discovered somewhat by accident how life could be better without a car.

I haven't owned a car for 20 years and still managed to hold an executive position in a large corporation. I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and took the train to work every day.

These days I'm freelance and live a little further south. It's not quite as easy as it was in the Bay Area, but it's still quite doable.

I walk a great deal, know the local buses and trains, and enjoy riding with friends from time to time. My trips generally require more planning and more time, but that's not a bad thing.

[Luminous Animal]

65. I love taking public transportation. Even if it takes 1/2 an hour or more to get to my destination.

That 1/2 hour is leisure time. Time to read, time to write, time to do the crossword and sudoku puzzles, time to really converse with my traveling companion(s), or time to kick back and close my eyes and listen to music.

[tammywammy]

62. No public transportation where I live. n/t

[Crystal Clarity]

63. Why is there a "No, can't get there from here w/out a vehicle" choice?

If public transportation was available here in the boonies, I'd do it in a second... Or if I could ride a bicycle, moped, scooter, heck, even motorcycle I'd do it. Am actually thinking about getting a motorcycle license for the summer months. Nothing big or fancy.

But a 96 mile round trip in sub-zero temps. just would not work for me. Sorry.

I DO car pool though... :bounce:

There are a couple of women I ride with. The closest is 22 miles from here and we pick up others along the way.

[barbiegeek]

64. If I have good public transportation--yes.

If I lived out in the North East. I would not own one & use the trains, subways, & other public transportation.

[pitohui]

66. without a car you have no freedom, this is why the old resist giving up their cars

as patrick henry would say, give me freedom or give me death

if you take away my car keys, you may as well give me the merciful needle right now as to let me die helpless and unable even to go buy a bag of groceries without annoying someone or getting long-routed to chicago by a cab driver "borrowing" the real cab driver's medallion

i'll pay a fifth of my income to be free and and independent, you pay FAR MORE not to have a car and to either be a leech to everyone or to be a victim of anyone

you would not let your teen daughter age 13 get in a car with a stranger but you expect an aged person to do so...and be glad for the chance to be cheated

next question?

[HuckleB]

91. Angry much?

[treestar]

118. Sounds like one who has to drive other people places

I wouldn't mind that now, but when in my 20s I did not like it. My grandmother would ask me to take her to the store, then once out, would have like 20 places to go! Took all day. Though she did take me to lunch, I think. So be honest up front about making a day of it!

And pick different people, and be pleasant company. I used to say I'd prefer to just take her list and do the errands for her (would take less time), but she wouldn't have that! At least, at the age she was then - early 80s but still wanted to get out!

[rbnyc]

96. Not driving has never stopped me from doing anything I wanted to do.

Of course, I've never wanted to just spontaneously go driving just to take a drive. If I wanted to do that, well, not driving would clearly make that impossible.

;-)

But seriously, I've lived in Chicago. I've lived in Austin. I've lived in the middle of the damn desert. I've lived in a small farm town. I've lived in the suburbs. I have never driven and I've always been free and independent.

[Blecht]

127. The opposite is actually true

Owning a car is slavery to bankers and oil companies. Living in a society where one is unnecessary is freedom.

[markpkessinger]

67. It's easy here in NYC

Having lived in NYC virtually all of my adult life since college, I have gone most of that time without owning a car. I had one when I first moved here; it got stolen, and it never really made much economic sense to replace it. There are very few corners of this city and the surrounding suburbs that one can't get to, cheaply and easily, via mass transit. And in most cases, if you plan it correctly, mass transit is actually faster than driving.

I do rent a car on the rare occasion I actually need it for something I can't do via public transportation, but that amounts to a few times a year at most.

Do I miss having a car? Admittedly, sometimes I miss the spontaneity that a car can provide -- the ability to get in the car on a moment's notice and just go somewhere for a few hours -- but as I mentioned above, renting is always an option. I certainly don't miss driving the streets for hours looking for a parking space that will be legal the entire following day while I'm at work, nor do I miss the insurance payments and the unexpected maintenance bills that can crop up.

Oh, and there's one HUGE benefit to not having a car in NYC -- it means I do a whole lot more walking!

[erodriguez]

103. Owning a car is a hassle in NYC with the limited spots and alternate side parking.

I own a car and use it sometimes on the weekend. Though I have to move it to the other side of the street lmost everyday.

[TBF]

68. Would love to have good public transportation so we could go down to one or zero -

where we live it's impossible. I don't like to drive and would far prefer to ride trains daily.

[Synicus Maximus]

69. It normally takes me between 10 and 15 minutes to drive to work.

It is 9 miles down the expressway. I have tried using public transport, the closet bus stop is 5 blocks away and a bus comes by every 20 minutes and take half an hour to get to the train station another 10 or 15 minute wait for the train and 20 minutes to get to the closest station to my office and then another 6 block walk to the office. So instead of a 10 minute drive I could spend the better part of and hour getting to work including walking 10 blocks. It just doesn't make any sense.

[REP]

70. I did for many years. It sucked.

Now I'm disabled and couldn't fight off assailants like I used to. No thanks.

[AndyTiedye]

138. Yeah, That's the Other Problem the City-Lovers Don't Want to Talk About

Pretty near everyone I know who lives in a US city has a black belt in some form of martial arts. It seems to have become a requirement for surviving in the city.

[shanti]

72. i believe that i could

as i live very close to transportation, medical centers, and shopping. but not everyone has this scenario...as it is, i rarely drive my car now that i'm retired. in fact, the battery died on me a couple of weeks ago. i hadn't started it in 5 days, lol, guess that's the limit!

[bluestate10]

74. Yes. If year around bike paths were built and maintained.

I would love to ride a mountain bike during the winter and a touring bike during spring, summer and fall. I could have a pack for my communication devices and business items. I could use a car for distances longer than twenty miles or when traveling by plane.

[Codeine]

75. If you buy used cars and take care of them it costs a lot less than

eight and a half thousand a year to have them. Near as I can tell my old car costs me about four thousand a year with insurance, gas, maintenance, and repairs.

[trayfoot]

76. NO, Health Insurance is what is

sucking most of my cash away! Living in a rural area without ANY public transit makes a car a necessity!

[bobbolink]

77. Given that its my home, no.

But I'm sure there are plenty of DUers who are anxious to give me a lecture about that.

Have at it. I put my ear plugs in.

[KillCapitalism]

78. Not possible for me.

I live too far from work & even if I did live within biking range, biking in 105* weather in August, or -5* weather in February is a little unsafe. I'd certainly do it if I lived somewhere with a climate similar to that of San Diego.

[CabalPowered]

80. I had to move to make it happen

but definitely worth it. :)

[NuclearDem]

81. Not only do I need my Ram to get around in Omaha during the winter...

But I don't think I could part with her. For better or worse, that truck's become a part of me.

[sylveste]

82. i could if i had to

but i wouldn't want to, if for no other reason than i enjoy driving.

[AndyTiedye]

83. There is a Reason We Live so Spread-Out

It seems clear that some people are naturally city-people and some aren't.

Many of our ancestors moved to America because it was too crowded where they were living.
People came here for a lot of other reasons too, but the need for more space was the
driving factor for many over the years. The original "American Dream" was a farm.

Living in a crowded city requires excellent social instincts that many of us lack.
That deficit is often hereditary.

Articles promoting a carless lifestyle, including this one, inevitably
include a move into the city, or into an even higher-density part of it,
as part of the prescription.

The city is a nice place to visit, but the mountains south of it are a much better place for us to live.
If we couldn't have a car at all, we'd have to get a horse. I can get up here on a bike, but I don't see my wife being able to in this lifetime.
Then there is the matter of transporting groceries, cat food, garden supplies and stuff.

Besides, if we move into the city, someone else has to move out. The city is full.

[HuckleB]

92. We live so spread out because we build to pretend some people live in the country.

However, the suburbs end up being the worst type of city life around.

[AndyTiedye]

102. Why Do You Think So Many People Live There Then?

[HuckleB]

125. In most places, the choice of housing types is minimal to zero.

In places where housing choice is available, the burbs become the less desirable places to live.

[AndyTiedye]

136. I Am All In Favor of More Choice

There is obviously a surplus of suburban-type housing in some places, due to the recent real estate bubble
and there is obviously plenty of demand still for housing in San Francisco,
which is one of the world's most desirable cities.

That does not mean that everyone would choose to live in a city if they could.

People are not all the same, and a one-size-fits-all approach will never work.

Some love to be around zillions of people all the time, others find that exhausting.

Some want to be in the middle of the city and walk to everything, others need space and quiet.
Immigration patterns over the centuries have brought us a larger proportion of the latter.



The burbs are too built up for me, and most of the newer cities are just overgrown suburbs.
Our tiny mountain community of around 1000 seems the right size for us.

[unkachuck]

84. "Can you live without a car?"

....no, only if I didn't want to eat.

"...their car is what is sucking most of their cash away."

....not me, I do all my own repair and maintenance....it's one of the few advantages of having worked within the blue-collar world.

[Ilsa]

85. It would take 24 hours for public transportation to take me

Where i drive in two hours to take care of my father. Thats if there is a trailways bus.

Honestly, in most of Texas, it's almost impossible unless you never need to leave the major cities.

[burrowowl]

87. In Paris I did, even working late

I could get home on mass transit.
In Albuquerque, many buses stop running at 6:00 pm, people who have night jobs are shit out of luck.
It takes awhile to walk 12 miles to and 12 miles back.

[MrsBrady]

88. not in North Texas area

-- or Texas in general. not a chance. not possible.

[upi402]

89. crappy, inconvenient mass transit - so no

now I could because there is no work

[rbnyc]

93. I've lived all over the country and have never driven.

I've lived in New York City. I've lived in Cottonwood, Arizona. I currently live on Long Island, where everyone said I must have a car. I've been here almost 4 years. I don't drive.

I take the bus. I walk. I ride my bike. I take car service when I need to. Sometimes, I get a ride.

The amount I spend on car service is far less than what I would spend on a car payment, gas, maintenance and insurance.

I have to plan more carefully than if I had a car. That's about the total impact of being a non-driver.

I have a lot of reasons for not driving. In terms of the environment, I am glad I am not putting one more car on the road, but here's my main reason:

Have you ever been driving and someone makes some ridiculous, dangerous move and you think, "That person cannot freaking drive and has no business being on the road?" Well, that's me. I deeply believe that it's the responsibility of bad drivers to keep themselves off the road. I am leading by example.

[RandomThoughts]

97. Actually nobody saw my driving when at the bar.

I didn't start to post about 'driving' till thinking about the concepts of light and secrecy over a few years.

I realized the 'having to hide' is to try and keep the good parts from being seen.

That was an error in Star Wars, and in SG1. Light is stronger, and overcomes dark, so no reason to hide. And also about Luke's encounter, and many other concepts. And about those that make many of those stories.

That holds if existence is more good then bad. If it is more bad then good, then it don't matter anyways.



Side note, I am still due beer and travel money and many experiences.

[rbnyc]

99. I didn't understand any of that.

I think you probably have some mind-blowing insights, but I almost never understand your writing.

Sorry.

[treestar]

119. What's car service?

Something like Dial-a-Ride? I recall that was vans, for the elderly - retired and with these services available, the elderly could cut back on driving or do without cars. Neither of my grandmothers drove - in their generation, I guess women often didn't bother with getting a license - one car family days and of course the husband was in charge of the vehicle.

A van service was good for my grandmother for a while. It would be a good business to go into, with the aging baby boomers. Not oursourceable, either.

[cynatnite]

94. If I could live without a car, I would...

Public transportation isn't that great here. It has improved in the last few years so I'm hopeful that it'll get better in time. We're still far enough away that a car is a must. I've got school, we go to the VA, and so on. A car is a necessity.

[Dappleganger]

95. We live in suburbia with no public transportation except school buses.

The younger kids ride the bus (and walk to their bus stop) both ways. No city buses or trains anywhere around here.

[csziggy]

98. Got to have a truck for my business to haul my horses places and pick up feed

And because I live at least five miles from the nearest public transportation.

But my truck spends most of its time sitting in the yard. I only drive it when it has a job to do.

[Bombero1956]

104. I live in the North East and there is no way I'd give up my car

Public transportation is a joke. The buses are supposed to run every 20 minutes but during bad weather it isn't uncommon to wait an hour for one to stop for you. Face it, having a car provides a great deal of freedom and independence which I'm not willing to give up. I like my car and the ability to get in and go wherever I want when I want. I'm driving to Kansas next week for my nephew's return from Iraq. I'd certainly hate to take a bus all the way there.

[Lugnut]

105. Nope.

I'm disabled and I live in a rural area with minimal public transportation. I'd be dead in the water without my car.

[silverweb]

106. Haven't had a car in 4 years.

Good riddance to the ball and chain!

I rent a car for a day or two maybe 2 or 3 times a year, but that's it. The rest of the time I walk or take public transit, and use a cab to get home when I have too much to carry.

I realize it's not possible for everyone and count myself very lucky to have the options I do.

[grahamhgreen]

107. Life without a car gas been very relaxing! :-))

[Manifestor_of_Light]

109. Gotta have a car in Texas.

The buses in Houston are horrible, the toy train running down main street is a joke.

Also, if you do wait for a bus you will probably get a headache from heat exhaustion four or five months out of the year. I'm not kidding.

I live in the country, 20 miles from a grocery store. My town of 1,400 people does not have a grocery store. We have three gas station/convenience stores, a Subway sandwich shop and a Dollar General where you can get some groceries.

Wally World has killed the economy here. The nearest Target is 80 miles away. The nearest Costco is 150 miles away (Houston or Dallas).

[tekisui]

111. I do.

[Balbus]

112. Where would I sleep?

[mwooldri]

114. I voted "no must have car"... but this may change real soon though.

Presently I am commuting 20 miles 1 way to get to work each day.

Recently my big Fortune 50 employer announced that our office is being closed down. However a lot of "work at home" positions are being created for those who for some reason can't take the relocation package. My commute may be changed from 20 miles to 20 feet. That's doable without a car (yeah duh no brainer!). Also if I can persuade my son to change schools he can *walk* to school.

That would drastically decrease my dependency on my vehicle. It could mean we could switch from 2 cars to 1 but since my vehicle is being financed, might as well keep it, keep it up, and carry on making the payments... and when it's paid for keep it good until it dies.

[treestar]

117. Could do it but quality of life issues

Long walk to bus stop - having to get rides to some places. Having to leave very early in order to get public transport to deliver me in time. I wish our area did have much better public transportation. If I had a job where I went to the same place every day, downtown in the nearest big city, it would not be too bad. But errands and such could be a problem. Would need a ride to the grocery store.

Winter months would be even worse.

I can do a lot of work from home, though.

[Blecht]

120. The bankers and oil companies will get your money

It's really hard to avoid -- they get you one way or the other. Either you get a house in the walkable areas that costs double the amount of one in suburban hell, or you get one in suburban hell and pay the difference in gas and driving time and stress (and stress on the environment).

Cars and houses usually involve loans -- it's no accident that things are set up this way to benefit the bankers. Everything is set up to benefit the bankers.

[B Calm]

121. I can live without a car, but not my pickup! I live out in farm country.

[madokie]

122. If I want to resort to using a beast of burden I could

otherwise not having a car is out.

[otohara]

128. Disabled Me

needs a car, but I rarely drive it and keep to my hood to avoid using gas/polluting air.

[GoCubsGo]

133. Nope. Walking and cycling are hazardous to one's health around here.

No sidewalks in 90% of my town. People here don't watch for pedestrians or cyclists. I quit cycling 20 years ago due to to many close calls. In just the past 3 months, we've had a at least a half dozen cyclists struck by vehicles, including at least a couple of fatalities. At least one guy is still in the hospital, and probably will be for a long time. There are always pedestrians getting creamed in my area, too. I'm close enough to some stores, etc., that I could walk to them. But, I don't dare. Not willing to risk my life trying to cross the busy streets.

[johnaries]

140. Where I live, it's 8 miles to the nearest store which is over-priced

and under-stocked. It's nearly 20 miles to the nearest "decent" store. It's 35 miles to my place of work. There is no public transportation within 30 miles.

I live on the side of a hill with very rocky soil - very unsuited for any type of gardening. Plenty of wild game, but hunting season is only part of the year and I'm not a hunter at any rate. I own a shotgun, but it's only for protection against the occasional copperhead or rattlesnake that decides to take up residence too close to the house (if they're just "passing through" I leave them alone).

So, there may be plenty of others that can live quite well without a car - I need one.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

141. I would rather be dead

I work funny hours, week to week I don't know what time zone I am going to living on the next. Where I work at home is about a 90 minute bus ride at any time of the day, most of it going the wrong direction and where I work in Canada the last bus that could get me home leaves at 5:20 when I rarely leave the office before 7:00. This leaves me waiting for a bus that comes once every forty minutes, takes nearly an hour to get to the end of the line from which I must walk a mile and a half to get home. By comparison driving to my office in Costa Mesa takes about ten minutes and my office in Calgary about 15.

I would also rather be dead than live in an urban area for any length of time.

[lunatica]

144. My car may be my home soon

So no.

[yurbud]

145. I teach college part time in two different counties. Once when my car broke down, I tried to use

mass transit to get from LA to Ventura, about 60 miles away. I rode my bike to the bus, took the bus to Amtrak central station, rode the train to the closest station and rode my bike to school. I left at 6 am and got to my 130 class 15 minutes late.

Then I found out there was no train that went BACK to LA when my class got out, so I had to rent a car anyway.

The way my job is structured, most of us have to work multiple jobs far apart or be content with less than half the income of our full time peers.

[Iggo]

146. Already do.

Live in Whittier. Work in L.A.

Supposed to be impossible. But it ain't.

[seabeyond]

148. i have given up my flying. have to get out of this area quarterly. part of marriage contract. nt

[ReggieVeggie]

150. I don't know about the relevance of "quality of life"

but I'm sure my life would be very different did I not have a car

[bigwillq]

151. No, unless I get a new job and move.

Live a bit far from stores, and public transportation (buses) don't come up to where I live. I guess I could take cabs.
I also travel quite a bit around the state for my job and can't rely on buses or cabs for that either.

[quaker bill]

152. Where I live it is necessary

but I have never spent that much money on one, even at current gas prices, I spend less than half the stated figure. I never buy new, and I never make payments. I could easily afford to do so, and have no problem getting called a "highly qualified buyer", I just don't choose to go there.

If you save what you might be making in payments, you can replace a vehicle every 3 to 5 years, with cash. I pay no interest, and I don't have to buy high priced collision insurance, just liability coverage. This saves me a ton of money.

I am very good at picking out a solid used car, and that is what I do. Here is a hint, if you see alot of a particular model still on the road and 5+ years old, and they are generally not blowing huge clouds of blue smoke when you see them, put it on your list.

[varelse]

153. Already do

it's not so bad, but then I don't have any kids to "helicopter" around, so...

[Vinca]

154. We live in the sticks and don't have much of a choice.

Of course, now that gas is going through the roof again, we think twice about whether our trips to town are necessary.