Obama to seek changes in Pell Grants

[cali]

By DARLENE SUPERVILLE, Associated Press Darlene Superville, Associated Press – 32 mins ago

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's budget plan would cut $100 billion from Pell Grants and other higher education programs over a decade through belt-tightening and use the savings to keep the maximum college financial aid award at $5,550, an administration official said.

Nearly $90 billion of the projected savings would be achieved through two changes, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of Monday's release of Obama's 2012 budget. The spending plan applies to the budget year that begins Oct. 1.

Congress would have to approve both changes.

The first proposal would end the "year-round Pell" policy that let students collect two grants in a calendar year, with the second grant used for summer school. The official said the costs exceeded expectations and there was little evidence that students earn their degrees any faster.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110213/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_pell_grants

[Wilms]

1. Race to the bottom.

What a tool.

[msanthrope]

27. Except that's not what's happening....Obama just preserved the maximum award for everyone.

I hate to cite facts here, but this keeps the maximum award level at 5.5k--which Obama instituted.

If you had READ the article, without cuts, the maximum award would have been cut to 3k for all grants....

Now, if you do the math, the ONLY people possibly losing money are students who routinely attend summer classes. That's a bitch, but the government didn't think the extension of summer grants was efficient, or particularly helpful.

[Wilms]

39. Summer classes AND post-graduate study grant cuts, is what I read.

Those cuts sound like cuts to me.

[silver10]

48. More scare tactics and hostage taking

What Obama is all about.

And, oh by the way, the math makes no sense.

How can the max stay at $5,500 if they are cutting Pells for summer use?

Where are you getting the $500 number and the $3,000 number? Anybody can pick numbers out of the air.

[FirstLight]

2. ugh, so sick of the 'budget cuts' bullshit

maybe if we stopped pouring Trillions into the MIC we'd have a better shot at fixing things...
funny, i thought that's what Obama campaigned on, but it seemsactions speak louder than words

[piratefish08]

3. they MUST be close to taxing the uber-rich and fining the banksters? right?

right??? RIGHT??

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


fucking disgusting. freezing the poor wasn't low enough - let's go after the college kids now!!!!!!!!

[datasuspect]

5. no, you have to wait for 2012 for THAT

we'll all be singing kumbaya and farting unicorn rainbows in 2012.

[piratefish08]

9. Oh. Well, everything makes sense now. I feel much better.

Thank you sir.

For a while there I was feeling like President Obama couldn't shit on the left's most needy fast enough.

I'll get back to hoping and dreamin' now!

[HereSince1628]

6. Well, they ARE closeD to taxing the uber-rich, etc. It's the Ds REMEMBER?

Remember that Carolina Blue avatar?

[originalpckelly]

15. OH NO, we can't do that!

That might hurt the economy! However, cutting money from a program to help students educate themselves, and make us more competitive with other developed nations, that's NOT going to hurt the economy. And we all know, if we had to choose, we'd always choose the rich people, because of course, they're in greater need, aren't they?

[jp11]

4. Win the future! Get a 2nd job for the summer instead of taking classes.

[somone]

21. Yeah, Win the future!

[somone]

7. Meet Mr Hatchet Man, America's Captain CEO

[sasha031]

8. that's right Mr President

keep investing in our future:wtf:

[IDemo]

10. Oh well, there are plenty of other options available for youth

[somone]

11. and they can always work three jobs

McJobs - IF they can find them

[sufrommich]

12. I don't have a problem with these Pell Grant changes.

He's not cutting the maximum award,he's cutting grants for summer school and broadening the use of IRS data to determine eligibility.

The administration is projecting a shortfall of more than $20 billion in the program for the 2012. Without action, officials say, the maximum award would have to be cut by more than $2,500 to meet demand.

[msanthrope]

18. Don't let facts cloud perfectly good anti-Obama rants---n/t

[uppityperson]

24. Thank you, me either. READ the article people and see what and why is being proposed

cutting 2 in 1 yr grants because they don't seem to help people graduate faster seems fine with me.

But no, better to rant about how nasty Obama is.

I am glad others have managed to read the article and see what this is also.

[enlightenment]

34. Did you know that in places where higher education is

mostly funded by the government, students generally graduate on-time? If they are in a three-year BA program (common in Europe because they enter school with stronger basics and don't usually need 'general ed' and remedial courses) they usually graduate in three years.

The average in the US is closer five years for a four-year BA program. That includes the growing number of students who take courses year-round.

http://trends.collegeboard.org/education_pays/report_findings/indicator/College_Completion_Rates

Funding makes a difference. Period.

You can read that article until you turn blue, but a vague statement that 'there is little evidence that students earn their degrees faster' is not really evidence of anything but more weasel words from this administration. The summer Pell grant program STARTED last year - how on earth could they know whether or not it helps students earn their degrees faster?

[uppityperson]

37. I'd rather my child get $5500 than $2500. Even if he won't get $500 for summer school grant

Seriously, $5500 is better than $2500 + $500 summer school grant.

If they can continue to grant $5500 by cutting that summer school grant, I am grateful. I will be happy to pick up that extra $500 (have no clue how) if he can continue to get $5500 for the school yr rather than only $2500. I can figure out how to pick uup $500 MUCH easier than $3000.

Yes, funding DOES make a difference. This is why I am VERY glad they will continue to fund the PELL grant at the current rate rather than cut it in half.

[enlightenment]

40. Why does your kid only get $500 for summer school?

That's not the maximum grant. Could it be because of EFC? Because they're not going full-time? Because the per credit cost is lower?

Please stop presenting that '$500' as if that's the maximum summer award.

I'm glad you're happy with this newest 180 - but outside of your personal experience many people don't see this as a positive and it's not because they're failing to 'read the article' or because they are 'anti-Obama'. It's because they have different experiences and realize different outcomes.

Honestly, it's not just about you.

[uppityperson]

42. Aw fuck, off to find the article I read it in. OK, can't find it. I was wrong.

I agree that "source" is not a good source.

I read another article linked on DU earlier today, thought it said summer school grant was only $500. I cannot find it now so sent to PELL grant page and it says I was wrong. In which case, outrage on.

[enlightenment]

49. Given how vague the federal website is and how many different

versions of the rules seem to be floating around, I'm not surprised you got confused. One website, that apparently helps students figure out financial aid (not a government site and damned if I can relocate it, of course) came right out and said that the new rules were beyond confusing.

Guess figuring them out won't be a problem since they're pulling back the summer grant. I suppose that's a plus . . .

[originalpckelly]

29. Why don't they just increase the amount of money going to the program?

Hmmmm...could it be that they have already promised that amount (and actually quite a lot more) to the rich? Yeah, that's why we're in this tense budget crisis, and they're unfairly burdening those who want to pursue their education as fast as possible, those who are willing to take summer classes to get ahead, or make up for the shitty education they had when they were younger and we as a nation failed them then.

I'm not one for the summer classes myself, but I'll defend the right of anyone to take them and still have assistance paying for them from the federal government.

[sudopod]

46. You have asked the obvious question

Why doesn't anyone else? That amount of money over a decade is similar to what we spend on any given month on war. (That is completely neglecting what goes into the regular DOD budget.)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w8liftinglady]

14. I have to say.. a Pell grant allowed me to become a nurse.

I think the US overnment got their money back.
I hope this isn't true.
It's hard enough for kids to get funding for public colleges

[sufrommich]

20. Pell grants aren't ending. My son got though college with the

help of Pell grants,too. It sounds like they're ending Pell Grants for summer school and checking IRS records to determine need. The Pell grant award amount has gone up under the Obama Administration.

[ProSense]

16. "and use the savings to keep the maximum college financial aid award at $5,550...

"Obama increased the maximum award to $5,550."

[msanthrope]

19. Don't let facts cloud anti-Obama rants--no one wants to hear that the AMOUNT of money stays the same

but how you get it, differs.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GrantDem]

17. Now.. Now.. Everyone knows that it has to be a shared sacrifice.

:sarcasm:

[msanthrope]

23. I think this OP selectively leaves out essential facts--

The amount of the award stays at the maximum--5,500, which is not repayable.

Obama was the one who increased the award to 5,500.

Unless the shortfall is addressed, the max award will only be 3,000.

So, trimming inefficiency allows the award to stay at the highest level...facts you thought weren't important.

[uppityperson]

25. Thank you for pointing out the facts

I've been trying to do so on other threads in GD and LBN. I really wish people would read the article before becoming outraged.

[msanthrope]

26. Read the article??? Are you out of your fucking mind?

(Sorry.)

This is DU--it is merely ENOUGH to read the poster name, the cherry-picked 4 paragraphs, and smell the outrage of the thread....

Clicking, and READING, and DOING THE MATH is too fucking hard...

[uppityperson]

30. fyi...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=408238&mesg_id=408238

[originalpckelly]

28. NO, I'm still outraged, do you know why?

Why are they even cutting any type of social help, and they won't make the rich pay up? Hmmm? You want to explain that one?

They act as if they hadn't just given the well off sizable tax breaks. They make it seem as if this was the only course of action. It wasn't.

The Pell grants should be even higher, in fact you shouldn't even have to directly pay for post-secondary education. It should be completely free. It should be funded like you'd fund a K-12 school, through a universal tax on everyone, because everyone benefits from an educated society.

That said, why are they even considering this and not considering raising taxes on the rich?

Have you ever considered why someone might be taking summer classes? Maybe they had to take a remedial class to make up for a deficit in their knowledge, produced by the shitty public school system? Why should they have to pay for that themselves? It's not their fault, now is it?

Or maybe those kids just want to learn more, why shouldn't we encourage that by helping to pay for it?

Meanwhile, we are forcing young people to pay for this shit on their own. They're going to be in debt, as an individual, and it will reduce their ability to have a full productive life.

That's the problem.

[jp11]

31. Didn't you READ the article If they don't do this they'll have to reduce the grants

nevermind about why they don't have enough money to pay them that isn't important. What is IMPORTANT is that this saves the grants, just like cutting SS and raising the retirement age will save SS. It isn't important what happened to the money that was supposed to be safe and untouched, that's gone, now we have to deal with not having that money so we have to cut things. We can't even THINK about the WHY of it all we just have to react to the situation just like we'll have to react again when there are more deficits for whatever reason we can't talk about or think about in the future!

How dare you even talk about raising taxes that's madness, the only reasonable course of action is to tighten our belts and do with less yet again, unless you are rich or a corporate person sitting on record profits and piles of money of course.

:sarcasm:

[Lucian]

32. Why do they always cut from education first?

Geez. I rely on Pell Grants to get through school. I need to take summer classes. Now what?

The next couple generations are going to be full of idiots. And we have the government to thank.

I didn't vote for a Republican president.

[datasuspect]

33. because our social betters would rather that we all were in prison

[uppityperson]

38. You summer school grant of $500 will be cut, but your school yr grant os $5500 will stay the same

rather than being cut to $2500.

[GeorgeGist]

35. Winning the Future.

One backward step at a time. Yeah Obama.

[coalition_unwilling]

36. The last two paragraphs of the source article are particularly telling:

". . . .

The administration is projecting a shortfall of more than $20 billion in the program for the 2012. Without action, officials say, the maximum award would have to be cut by more than $2,500 to meet demand.

Demand increased sharply since the economic slump because more job seekers are going to school to learn new skills and they need help paying the tuition, the administration official said."

****************************************

I think this article was very poorly written. For one thing, it is unclear whether the proposal would keep the total amount that students receive unchanged at $5,500 per academic year or whether it actually will cut the total amount that students receive by eliminating the summer school grant. I am not an education policy wonk so do not know the details of the program. I simply cannot tell from this article whether recipients will be hurt or not, so I cannot calibrate my response accordingly. In general, if the proposal keeps their total dollars and eligibility unchanged, I can support it. If, on the other hand, the proposal either ruduces total dollars or tightens eligibility, I will be inclined to oppose it. But the article offers no clarity on either total funding for recipients or for eligibility.

[Doctor_J]

52. Looks like the admin now thinks we're all stupid as teabaggers

The administration is projecting a shortfall of more than $20 billion in the program for the 2012. Without action, officials say, the maximum award would have to be cut by more than $2,500 to meet demand.

How about this action: Take 20 billion from the fucking pentagon and use it to educate Americans instead of killing foreigners

Sickening. I can't wait to leave this fucking hellhole

[MineralMan]

41. For those of you damning Obama for this - Just wait

until the Republicans try to kill the Pell grants altogether. I guarantee they will do that, too.

President Obama increased the size of the grants to $5500. Now, he's trying to keep them at that level. Give the man a break!

Watch the Republicans. Will we hear about their attempt to cut or destroy the program here? I doubt it. It will remain President Obama's fault.

Disgusting!

[originalpckelly]

43. And when will Obama turn tail on the Pell grants, like he does at every major battle?

Or maybe the Republicans will propose that students pay the government $5500, and the reasonable compromise Obama will come up with will be the elimination of the Pell grants?

He's such a master negotiator, though, so I imagine the kids will still have to pay $1000 into the government.

[MineralMan]

47. You let me know when that happens. For now, he's preserving

the amount received for the school year. So, you let me know when he does something else, OK?

[Horse with no Name]

45. Of course they will!

That's the shit you keep feeding us and telling us its applesauce.

From where I am sitting--there isn't ANY difference in who is sitting in the White House. We are being brutally raped while some are trying to convince us we are in the middle of consensual sex.

It isn't worse with the other party. No matter how many times you keep pointing to them and saying that. WE HAVE A ONE PARTY STATE at this point.

Yeah, my particular ox isn't being gored at this point--but I have no doubts that my turn on the chopping block isn't far which is why EVERY outrage should be addressed until EVERYONE is pissed off enough to do something about this fucking administration.

[Doctor_J]

53. So if they're going to eliminate them anyway, why not defend them?

And your premise that we won't post about the Repukes' cuts is stupid. Of course we will.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doctor_J]

50. TO the defenders - What part of "Cut $100 billion" don't you understand?

:wtf:

In all of the countries we're allegedly trying to "compete" with, college education is paid for as part of one's citizenship.

Are you brainwashed like the teabaggers, or do you get paid to defend everything the president does?

[lonestarnot]

51. Yahoo news. They prollee made that shit up.

[craigmatic]

54. Didn't he just increase Pell when we had congress?