Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NOAM CHOMSKY: Egypt - "happening now to Wisconsin"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:22 PM
Original message
NOAM CHOMSKY: Egypt - "happening now to Wisconsin"
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 03:51 PM by kpete

“Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.?: Noam Chomsky on Wisconsin’s Resistance to Assault on Public Sector, the Obama-Sanctioned Crackdown on Activists, and the Distorted Legacy of Ronald Reagan

........................

AMY GOODMAN: That was a question from Ryan Adserias in Madison, Wisconsin, where more than 10,000—some say tens of thousands of people, teachers, students, are protesting in the Capitol building, schools closed, as Ryan said. So, from Manama to Madison, from Manama, Bahrain, to Madison, Wisconsin, Noam Chomsky?

NOAM CHOMSKY: It’s very interesting. The reason why you can’t get Democratic leaders to join is because they agree. They are also trying to destroy the unions. In fact, if you take a look at—take, say, the lame-duck session. The great achievement in the lame-duck session for which Obama is greatly praised by Democratic Party leaders is that they achieved bipartisan agreement on several measures. The most important one was the tax cut. And the issue in the tax cut—there was only one issue—should there be a tax cut for the very rich? The population was overwhelmingly against it, I think about two to one. There wasn’t even a discussion of it, they just gave it away. And the very same time, the less noticed was that Obama declared a tax increase for federal workers. Now, it wasn’t called a "tax increase"; it’s called a "freeze." But if you think for 30 seconds, a freeze on pay for a federal workers is fiscally identical to a tax increase for federal workers. And when you extend it for five years, as he said later, that means a decrease, because of population growth, inflation and so on. So he basically declared an increase in taxes for federal workers at the same time that there’s a tax decrease for the very rich.

And there’s been a wave of propaganda over the last couple of months, which is pretty impressive to watch, trying to deflect attention away from those who actually created the economic crisis, like Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, their associates in the government who—Federal Reserve and others—let all this go on and helped it. There’s a—---to switch attention away from them to the people really responsible for the crisis—teachers, police, firefighters, sanitation workers, their huge pensions, their incredible healthcare benefits, Cadillac healthcare benefits, and their unions, who are the real villains, the ones who are robbing the taxpayer by making sure that policemen may not starve when they retire. And this is pretty amazing, like right in the middle of the Madison affair, which is critical.

....................


NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, that was very interesting. In fact, I urge people to take a look at the February 12th issue of the New York Times, the big front-page headline, you know, banner headline, "Mubarak Leaves," its kind of subheadings say, "Army Takes Over." They’re about 60 years late on that; it took over in 1952, but—and it has held power ever since.

But then if you go to an inside page—I don’t know what page it is—there’s an article on the Governor of Wisconsin. And he’s pretty clear about what he wants to do. I mean, certainly he is aware of and senses this attack on public workers, on unions and so on, and he wants to be upfront, so he announced a sharp attack on public service workers and unions, as the questioner said, to ban collective bargaining, take away their pensions. And he also said that he’d call out the National Guard if there was any disruption about this. Now, that’s happening now to Wisconsin. In Egypt, public protests have driven out the president. There’s a lot of problems about what will happen next, but an overwhelming reaction there.

And I was—it was heartening to see that there are tens of thousands of people protesting in Madison day after day, in fact. I mean, that’s the beginning, maybe, of what we really need here: a democracy uprising. Democracy has almost been eviscerated. Take a look at the front-page headlines today, this morning, Financial Times at least. They predict—the big headline, the big story—that the next election is going to break all campaign spending records, and they predict $2 billion of campaign spending. Well, you know, a couple of weeks ago, the Obama administration selected somebody to be in charge of what they call "jobs." "Jobs" is a funny word in the English language. It’s the way of pronouncing an unpronounceable word. I’ll spell it: P-R-O-F-I-T-S. You’re not allowed to say that word, so the way you pronounce that is "jobs." The person he selected to be in charge of creating jobs is Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric, which has more than half their workforce overseas. And, you know, I’m sure he’s deeply interested in jobs in the United States. But what he has is deep pockets, and also, not just him, but connections to the tiny sector of the ultra-rich corporate elite, which is going to provide that billion or billion-and-a-half dollars for the campaign. Well, that’s what’s going on.

the rest (incl audio):
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/17/democracy_uprising_in_the_usa_noam

Rep. Paul Ryan On Wisconsin Protests: "Like Cairo Moved To Madison"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/02/17/rep_paul_ryan_on_wisconsin_protests_like_cairo_moved_to_madison.html
Glorious Rallies in Madison, Ground Zero of the Fight Back
http://progressive.org/wx021711.html
Is Wisconsin Our Egypt? 15,000 Protest Off-the-Wall Right-Wing Governor's Policies
'I've never seen anything like it... there were Steelworkers, Teamsters, Pipefitters, building trades unions and more -- unions I've never seen at a rally in 10 years.'
http://www.alternet.org/economy/149942/is_wisconsin_our_egypt_15%2C000_protest_off-the-wall_right-wing_governor%27s_policies/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:24 PM
Original message
K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, kpete.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. hello there
Uncle Joe
always nice to have you on my threads,
peace, kpete
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. That's an easy task for me, kpete
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 04:05 PM by Uncle Joe
you always seem to have so many quality threads.

Peace to you, Uncle Joe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Chomsky is going to be a guest on David Sirota's radio show tomorrow
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Thanks for the info.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Y'welcome - You know they'll be talking about Wisconsin
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good read,
Whether you agree or disagree with Chomsky's take, his knowledge and information on the subjects he talks about is always informative and useful.

I like how he used the term, "criminal state" more than once:

"So, if union organizers are trying to organize, you put up a sign saying, you know, "Transfer operation Mexico." In other words, you shut up, or you’re going to lose your jobs. That’s illegal. But again, if you have a criminal state, it doesn’t matter."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. If we all could have a profe like Noam.
what a better world this would be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. amy goodman is a hack,
noam chomsky is a philistine, and wisconsinites do not live under a repressive military dictatorship.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. sending them to the "bog",too, lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. as rosa luxemburg once said
"I WAS, I AM, I SHALL BE"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. They do now!
'wisconsinites do not live under a repressive military dictatorship'.

Scott Mubarak IS a dictator. AND he threatened to call in the National Guard if there were any protests against his edicts.

That's as close to dictatorship as Wisconsinites were willing to get. THAT is why so many people from all walks of life and from all parts of the political spectrum, are out on the streets to stop him.

Dictatorships can happen anywhere and as soon as citizens see the signs, as they did with Scott 'Hosni' Walker, they did what citizens are supposed to do, they rose up en masse against him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Contrast Chomsky with W
At an age when normal folks lose some mental acuity, Noam is prescient, lucid, and packed with insight. Bush, on the other hand, is too ignorant to know he should be ashamed.
That was a great interview. One for the ages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. k&r
Yes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
luv_mykatz Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Let it Be, let it be!
Kick and recommend!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. Chomsky is always a good time...
Heh, and it's refreshing to hear that my memory of the Reagan years isn't delusional... or at least that I have some company in my delusions.

I guess we just need to remember that Hillary is a Goldwater Gal, and Obama is a Reagan Democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. Nearly every working person in this country has had a 'freeze'on pay and benefits
Edited on Fri Feb-18-11 02:33 AM by Mimosa
UNLESS they work for government, iMO it's about time they felt what the rest of us are going through. At least they have health insurance. Many of US are having to drop it.

State gov and fed gov employes have job security and pensions which private sector people do not have.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

I don't worry about state or Fed gov employees. I've known quite a few. they are doing just fine compared to the rest of us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. So we need a race to the bottom?
Rather than envying their union contracts and busting their unions, wouldn't it be better we all support unions and expand the benefits of unionization to your job?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I don't have a job.
So it's not personal for me. I happen to know experts in the field of administering benefits. It;'s a fact that gov workers have far better job security and benefits. That makes them effectively 'higher paid.' I doubt anybody wants a 'race to the bottom.' I merely support HONESTY about who gets paid what. I have a long history on D.U. to back that up, Oak2004. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Mimosa, I don't question your credentials
but I do question your statement. By taking away one of the few places where employees have a strong Union and earn a living wage, we are being mislead to believe that IS the problem. The problem is that the wealthy/elite do not pay their fair share of taxes or their employees a living wage.
By destroying one of the last strongholds of Unionization, we will be in a faster race to the bottom.
Again, this is their most effective weapon, divide and conquer. We should be demanding a living wage, benefits, etc.. just like the federal employees have (through collective bargaining) instead of trashing their accomplishments.
IMO, all of us should go to Wisconsin and demonstrate. This is as good a place as any, to start our much needed peaceful revolution and the cause is indicative of our worst problems. The decreasing wages of average Americans while the wealthy get more....lets go...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Doty, thanks.
You are insightful.

I'm now officially out of sympathy for anybody. I now can no longer afford BC/BS health insurance. I'm not poor enough for medicaid. Now I have to go without health insurance. When the gov employees don't have health insurance then I might feel for them. I am SICK with anxiety and gnawing my fingers with worry.

I worked hard for a presidential candidate who led me to believe he was going to act an make sure everybody could get affordable health care. That turned out to be false. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Even if all of that is true, is it really necessary to threaten employees
with the National Guard if there is any "unrest"? That is totally messed up, IMO. I am not familiar with the economy in WI, maybe things are bad and maybe at some point concessions will need to be made by government employees. But to try to throw out collective bargaining practices by using threats of National Guard intervention is shockingly vicious. I mean, really, are you going to shoot a bunch of school teachers??? :wtf:

I'm heartened to see the citizens of WI stand up and say NO. I wish more people in America would take a stand like this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Feel what you are going through? What good will that do? Believe me the decision makers
aren't going to be the ones feeling the pain.

Gov't employees are working people too. I am in the private sector and my pension as of this year will no longer be contributed to and my Health Insurance costs me a lot of money out of my own pocket.

The enemy is not the gov't employees, it is the decision makers in Washington who have decided to continue this Reaganomic World view where we worship the richest amongst us and all work to make them more rich where we all get more poor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadLinguist Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. Mimosa, I am afraind you just dont know what the eff you are talking about
Edited on Sat Feb-19-11 04:10 PM by MadLinguist
There has indeed been a freeze on federal workers pay and benefits. positions are being cut just as much as in the private sector. you want others to feel the same pain as you. okay, and then what? may help you feel better but is it also everybody being broke, companies as well as governmental operations too broke and risk adverse to hire? you feel "great!" "whoopee!" is that what you are telling us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ellenrr Donating Member (619 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
24. Glenn Beck likes this article about Chomsky
thot it was kinda funny, This website, which is apparently one of Glenn Beck's, links to Democracy Now!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/beginning-of-a-democracy-uprising-in-the-u-s-noam-chomsky-hopes-wisconsin-protest-will-be-just-like-egypt/

guess they want to see what the "enemy" is up to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
25. He really nailed that, didn't he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AKDavy Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:10 PM
Original message
IMHO, Chomsky always does. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. thing is, "giving away" the tax cuts makes it sound easy
fact is the left, including chomsky and most analysts of all stripes, completely underestimate the right's most important tool, talk radio.

it's almost a background that allows the right to dominate messaging and because most dem politicians have no clue how dominant it is and how useful it is in managing the rest of the media they give way too much credibility to what they think is legitimate public pressure but is actually a very loud pack of teabagger dittohead made-to-order pro corporate constituency serving billionaires and taking orders from 1000 coordinated radio stations. the GOP politicians are mostly on board with a few too scared to buck limbaugh and they are joined by red state dems whose local politics are significantly effected, even dominated by the giant limbaug/hannity stations.

there are some who are just bought but some are just intimidated because the left ignores the radio machine and is not getting their dem reps backs while team limbaugh take pot shots at them. so the effect is the dem leadership and white house compromise to get anything done and that is as much the fault of the left who ignore the radio as it is the dem politicians counting votes trying to get what they can.

until the left starts picketing those radio stations and asking their local sponsors WTF the left can expect a lot more compromising from their reps.

and for instance, limbaugh can call teachers and union workers parasites from 600 radio stations all day (and i suspect will continue today) and as far as i know none of his radio stations are seeing picketing. WTF? team limbaugh gets a total free speech free ride.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Or you can just divide the population by 2
The total population of American Voters, American opinion-makers, the politically active from any side....

There are those who swallow the repeated lies, hook and line and tea bag, and there are those who see through them.

Even those folks who vote with the propaganda machine have a sense that they're drinking the Kool-Aid, that they've made a bargain -- in exchange for having their ignorance, prejudices and limitless sense of entitlement validated on a daily basis, they get to feel like they're "aware" of public policy issues, and "informed."

Some day, the whole pyramid of mendacity-reinforcing-self-deception will come tumbling down.

People who know better will start to show some courage. They'll start to speak up against the constant, repeated barrage and onslaught of ideological bullying. A foundation built on bluster, bull shit and bigotry can only stand so long.

...It's certainly true, though, that the RW Tools have a huge advantage in terms of dollars-per-minute of air time. Thank the FCC, the Supremems (Citizens United) and Bill Clinton (Telecommunications Act of 1995) for that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. radio is their most important propaganda tool, the only one that
can do the repetition and volume necessary to "catapult the propaganda" and the one they depend on the most, the one they can't really do shit without. it is also teh one that is basically invisible to media watchers and dem political strategists because it can''t be read or watched, who then wonder why they get beaten and blame the wrong factors.

the tragedy is much of the last 20 years of disaster, since reagan killed the fairness doctrine, could have been avoided if the the left hadn't ignored the radio.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Daemonaquila Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
28. Why do people have to make these silly statements?
No, Wisconsin is not "our Egypt." Are hundreds of thousands out in force? Is anyone being seriously injured or killed? Are the protestors on the road to overthrowing the idiots in office in Wisconsin? No, no, and NO.

Let's applaud what we see really going on here, the first time in years that a truly large number of people from all walks of life got out in the streets and their government buildings to protest for a protracted time. Awesome! But let's not pretend it's something it isn't. In our government's last decade of growing abuses, have we finally seen a line in the sand drawn by people who've had enough? Maybe. I doubt it. If it lasts, spreads from state to state where other governments are proposing similar nonsense, and creates a resurgence of union and popular activism, then we'll really call it worth celebrating.

But "Egypt?" No. Let's not start misusing that term like "Watergate."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Your missing the point, not surprising. He is equating the two for the conditions
that are causing them, not because people in Wisconsin live under a 30 year incumbent dictator.

Egypt too has been having massive labor unrest since 2002. Many strikes and worker revolts. Madison is the start of what is to come for likely many years here in the USA. The haves grabbing much more and the have nots fighting over the crumbs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our first quarter 2011 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Click here to donate

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. i was wondering when you would put in an appearance!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-11 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
34. k/r --
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC