Tampa mom makes son wear sign announcing 1.22 GPA

[Liberal_in_LA]

Tampa mom makes son wear sign announcing 1.22 GPA

A Tampa mother is defending her decision to stick her teenage son on a street corner with a sign that says, among other things, "GPA 1.22 ... honk if I need education."

Ronda Holder says she and the boy's father have tried everything to get their 15-year-old to shape up academically. They've offered help, asked to see homework, grounded, lectured him and confiscated his cell phone. James Mond III's indifference at a school meeting last week was the final straw. The next day, Holder made the sign and made her son wear it for nearly four hours.

Experts criticized the move as humiliating and ineffective, and someone reported Holder to the Department of Children and Families.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/02/21/national/a044833S89.DTL#ixzz1EcIMqhan

[socialshockwave]

1. Really?

How will this encourage this kid to up his education? I'd die of shame if it was me.

I mean - it seems cruel, to me.

[Scout]

389. i bet you'd improve your grades though, wouldn't you? n/t

[FLAprogressive]

2. Great! It's nice to see that the parents are trying, unlike so many other parents nowadays

[whathehell]

18. You think humiliating a kid is "trying"?

Horrible...I guess you like the "tiger mom" style.

[FLAprogressive]

45. Seems to me like they've exhausted all of their options...

[LanternWaste]

177. Or simply cannot think of additional, valid options...

"Seems to me like they've exhausted all of their options..."

Or simply cannot think of additional, valid options... :shrug:

[cleanhippie]

315. Or maybe there just are not any more options.

:shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

365. And that justifies being a sadistic fuck to a kid, exactly how?

Is it because it's a kid that this is okay?

[Brilliantrocket]

Americans are more worried about self esteem than accomplishments.

Our kids will sure FEEL great when the U.S. lags behind almost every other developed country.

[whathehell]

80. Americans like you are more worried about accomplishments..See, this is the trick:

If you give a kid self-esteem, he WILL accomplish...Sounds like these parents,

like most, simply don't want to look at their own behavior...It's easier to punish.

[seabeyond]

82. self esteem does not guarentee follow thru. one can have self esteem and be lazy

feel they are just fine as is with no productivity. silly to suggest with self esteem comes success. hallmark type silly. not reality

[whathehell]

115. It doesn't guarantee it, but makes it more likely

Again, I do feel kids need limits and guidance...I just don't think humiliation is

the way to go.

[seabeyond]

120. s i said in original post, i wouldnt beat mom up for doing this.

i never said i would chose to do with my child. though i have used family members my kids respect, in discussion about success and failure in school, for them to take school more seriously. one could say that was a form of humiliation. but getting seriousness of message across to kids, is serious work

[whathehell]

137. Well, I think I know where you're coming from

although I don't know how using other people to discuss seriousness of school

is a form of humiliation (not on the level of sign wearing, anyway)

It's true that kids can be very frustrating...

Under the circumstances,I wouldn't "beat her up" either.

I knew a very loving mother who felt she had to do the

"tough love" thing with her son, although he was a bit older.

He was eighteen and she had to kick him out because he wouldn't work,

go to school or anything....He was "out" for a few days before he "came to his senses"

as it were, and it did change his M.O. and his life.

[seabeyond]

143. i have watched too many kids, and my brothers three kids go in a horrible direction

that is not ok for my kids. i have set strong lines for them not to cross. they do, and harsh consequences. they know i will always love them. but they know i am not nearly as forgiving as their friends parents.

my oldest tells me i am the toughest parent. and the easiest parent. because i am very understanding. and because i have high expectations. contradiction, but works for us.

[tigereye]

181. no, not contradictory at all - good parenting.

Set firm limits and enforce them in a kind, but consistent manner. :hi:

[seabeyond]

184. firm limits and enforce them in a kind, but consistent manner

do it from day one, and just becomes the way of life. not a battle.

:hug:

[Codeine]

85. Oh please. The laziest, most worthless people on Earth

are invariably brimming with self-esteem. They've been taught failure is OK and they'll always be loved no matter how big a piece of shit they are. Horrible message.

[whathehell]

112. I think you're confusing "self-esteem"

with arrogance -- It's not the same.

I'm not for the other extreme -- I've seen it and I don't like it -- I simply

don't think humiliation by parents is the way to go, that's all.

BTW, those who act arrogantly probably have LOW, not high self-esteem...Psychologists say there

is no such thing as a "superiority complex"..Just inferiority posing.

[Pacifist Patriot]

300. +1 ....

I cannot participate in discussions anymore when people start whining about "self-esteem" because so few people these days appear to appreciate what it really is and what is necessary to develop a positive self-esteem. Sadly, it's ass backwards these days more often than not.

[Hello_Kitty]

324. But those people aren't humiliated by their parents as kids, or by society. They are coddled.

cf George W. Bush

[WatsonT]

265. You have that backwards

real self-esteem stems from accomplishments, not the other way around.

How do you "give" someone self-worth anyhow?

"well timmy you're lazy and stupid and haven't done anything significant ever, but you're just aweseome! Keep up the good work"

[Art_from_Ark]

314. You praise them when they succeed or at least show effort

Calling them lazy and stupid usually just makes them want to rebel against you.

[WatsonT]

349. And if they don't succeed or show effort?

You what, praise their amazing indifference?

Besides which: he isn't a 2 year old. He's a teenager meaning he's right on the verge of being an adult. Don't you think that constant praise for mediocre or terrible performance is a cruelty in that you're setting him up for a major fall when he gets in to the real world? His boss is unlikely to care that he 'tried his best' when he set the kitchen on fire and gave a number of customers food poisoning within a week (I'm think a McJob for this kid if he doesn't get his stuff together).

I personally see it as atrocious and amazingly selfish that so many parents set their children up to fail in real life and be miserable for the next 60 years because they are afraid to be parents and maybe have their kid yell at them or think they aren't cool.

[Cid_B]

320. He can't do arithmetic but as long as he feels good about himself...

Sheesh... Self esteem comes from accomplishment and success and not the other way around...

[WatsonT]

369. These comments come out

side by side with stories about how the chinese are beating us badly in math and science and catching up in technological innovation.

And the self-esteem first crowd doesn't seem to understand how that can be happening, our kids feel good about themselves, why aren't they doing better?

[LanternWaste]

178. One does not deny the other.

"Americans are more worried about self esteem than accomplishments..."

One does not deny the other.

[WatsonT]

263. Isn't letting him graduate

without learning anything and ultimately failing at life going to be a bit embarrassing too?

Difference is at 15 he has time to get over it. At 50 after a lifetime of menial labor and being looked down upon he's out of luck.

[pipoman]

311. It isn't like the choice is one or the other..

either humiliate him or he will fail at life.

This is the same theory used by Sheriff Joe Arpaio...dress them in pink and chain them together in public and they will change their ways.

[WatsonT]

350. Sounds like they've been trying other things

and . . . . no results. So it does appear to be an either or thing.

You'd have a point if they started with this tactic the first time he got an A-.

But that isn't the case.

[BanzaiBonnie]

30. I understand the parents frustration

The parents are obviously at the end of their rope. They've run out of ideas. This is where the school should be able to offer them help although in this instance it's going to be children's services. I hope they can actually get some help to solve the issue.


But I disagree with their current strategy. Do they really believe this will get what they want? Or are they so angry at their child's defiant behavior that they want to punish him?

Of course, knowing nothing other than what's in the article, IMO, the better thing would be to find out what the 15 year old is needing. Then work toward meeting everyone's needs.

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. Michael Landon became a competitive runner because he wet the bed and his mom

would hang the sheets outside to humiliate him. Everyday after school he'd run like hell to get home before the other kids saw the sheets. From the way he told the story, he never got over the experience.

[FLAprogressive]

50. It's not like he could choose not to wet the bed.....this kid could choose to at least put forth an

effort, it seems to me that he hasn't and the parents are just frustrated.

[upi402]

90. humiliation is abuse, not help n/t

[FLAprogressive]

94. I have a hard time feeling sympathetic for someone who has oh-so-clearly spurned help at every

opportunity. You reap what you sew.

[Common Sense Party]

206. Sew what?

Sow there.

[superduperfarleft]

253. Sounds like someone needs to spend a little time on the street corner. n/t

[TBF]

257. This is a 15-yr old we're talking about - not an adult.

Of course with your attitude no wonder we have so many screwed up adults.

[pipoman]

312. Really?

I have 2 smart, well adjusted 20 year olds who didn't require humiliation. Help yourself, humiliate your little monsters, it will leave more for those who have self esteem.

[TBF]

340. I don't think you understood my response - I'm against the humiliation. nt

[gatorboy]

3. The wording of the sign suggests that the mom just might need an education herself.

[sufrommich]

4. Maybe Mom knows from experience what a lack of education

will get you.

[gatorboy]

5. Touché!

[sufrommich]

8. Yay! What do I win?

:D

[gatorboy]

12. A Zomg!

Congratulations! :party:

[seabeyond]

6. i am not going to beat parent up for this. creative. humiliating? well

get his ass in gear and he can feel proud.

[sufrommich]

15. I agree. I'm shocked taking away his cell phone didn't do

the trick. Sounds like his parents have already run the gamut of the usual parenting threats.

[seabeyond]

16. i guess they could give up. let him be a drop out and do nothing all day. that option

has been explored by many a parent

[sufrommich]

19. Which is why I give these exasperated parents the thumbs up.

I went to school with kids who's parents let them drop out,my parents always made it very clear that we would drop out of school over their dead bodies.

[whathehell]

20. Yeah sure....

Humiliation is oh so helpful to children:eyes:

Ever heard of positive reinforcement?

[seabeyond]

21. if you read, they took those steps first. and yes, i have heard. my kids get positive

until it is time to go negative.

[whathehell]

22. I did read

and it still sucks...Sorry.

[seabeyond]

23. what really sucks is failing out of HS. nt

[whathehell]

26. What sucks more is failing at trust and self-esteem..HS can be postponed easier than the former.n/t

[seabeyond]

28. trust? what, trust in the kid he will be responsible and do what he is suppose to do in school?

self esteem? comes from failing?

i dont think so.

how humiliating is it for him to tell employers for rest of life he failed HS?

[whathehell]

53. True self-esteem

comes from experiencing something called Unconditional Love...It's something parents are supposed

to instill and no amount of "education" can replace.

I do NOT advocate not putting pressure on the kid,

but humiliation sucks....If this is all they have left, they're parenting

skills need a tune up.

[Brilliantrocket]

60. Sorry love is not unconditional.

If I had kids and they got a 1.22, I'd kick them out and stop supporting them financially. Once they were 18 of course.

[whathehell]

66. Sorry, but love is unconditional when you do it right..

Parental love is supposed to be unconditional.

Sorry if you've never had the experience..Also sorry for your kids, present or future, 'cause

you can't give what you've never had.

[sufrommich]

68. You don't think these parents love their kid? nt

[whathehell]

70. I know of parents who beat up their kids and still claim to "love" him or her.

[sufrommich]

74. These parents weren't beating up their kid.They were setting

normal expectations for him.

[whathehell]

76. Humiliation is emotional abuse...Normal expectations can't be met by humiliating them.

[cleanhippie]

317. But this parent did not "beat up" her kid.

[Arkansas Granny]

133. Sometimes that unconditional love means letting the child experience

the consequences of their actions. If the kid is messing up in school, maybe a little humiliation will behoove him to pull his head out and get with the program. If these parents didn't love this boy, they wouldn't care if he did well in school or not. They've tried the positive reinforcement route with this kid and it didn't work, so now they're trying something else. For his sake and theirs, I hope it works.

[seabeyond]

139. kid probably will put his head down and work now, out of guilt he got his parents in trouble

and publically humiliated them, thru his actions.

so might all end well.

[Hello_Kitty]

329. I'm sure a dose of public humiliation would make you a better wife/mother/citizen too!

Maybe your husband should put you out on the street wearing a sign telling motorists how you've failed in your duties?

Not so great, huh?

My father used various methods of public humiliation to "teach" me. I loathe him for it to this day, and I am 42 years old.

[seabeyond]

333. my husband does not have authority over me. but that is a given, isnt it kitty? and

i think you have probably read many of my posts that say it is not something we would do in this house

[Hello_Kitty]

335. Which is why it surprises me that you'd endorse the behavior in the OP.

You're about the last person I'd expect to endorse that.

My dad thought humiliating me and my sister in public was a great way to discipline us. It wasn't.

[Codeine]

64. No love is unconditional. It never should be. nt

[whathehell]

75. Wrong...I hope you're childless. n/t

[tigereye]

186. ouch, no need to attack since you didn't what codeine

said..

[whathehell]

278. You're right..

I stand corrected.O8)

[seabeyond]

285. put an angel face.... lol lol

cute.

[whathehell]

287. Thanks!. n/t

[seabeyond]

77. true meaning of unconditional love is even in discipline the kid know... KNOWS he is loved

i see absolutely no reason this kid cannot know he is loved as his parent choses this lesson, stressing that the parent will not stop because it behooves the kid to get his degree. they love him that much. how much easier to just shrug and let him fail

[whathehell]

122. Again...Not saying they should "shrug it off".

and I'm tired of repeating that I don't believe in humiliation.

You either get it or you don't.:shrug: I'm done here.

[bighart]

215. To me the kid is humiliating the parents and himself by his own

actions and lack of respect for the latter and the former. I bet he would be much more humiliated in 15 years saying "You want fries with that?" all day because it's the only job he can get as a high school failure.

[Hello_Kitty]

351. Best rationalization for child abuse in this thread! eom

[seabeyond]

355. my mom told me when i was a teenager....

we kids have a responsibility to our family not to embarass them, as much as they had the responsibility to us kids. as my parents would in no way allow behaviors that would embarass us kids, that we too had that.... as a part of a family.

made sense to me as a kid. but then, even as a kid i knew that responsibility.

i was lucky, though. i had good parents. parents that loved me and still do, unconditionally. parents that allowed me to trust and respect, forever. and parents that were able to give me that.

[bighart]

357. I don't condone what they did, I would never do it.

But the whole idea that only the parents are at fault here is ridiculous. I have a son that struggled mightily with some subjects in high school but has a 4.0 cumulative GPA with one semester of college left. I understand that some students have difficulties and I had to find creative ways to get my son to stay motivated. Having said all of that nothing worked until HE took ownership of the problem and figured out how to apply his time and efforts to get the best possible results.

[bighart]

358. Oh and by the way his degree is in eductaion.

[seabeyond]

359. hey... my son is right there with yours. he has chemistry and algebra 2

kicking his ass, lol. Ap. his AP history and english piece of cake. but i tell ya, this is his first real struggle with it all and i am totally empathic. i never had to take those courses when i was in HS.

and same resolution, too.

[X_Digger]

54. But, but, but.. He's a special snowflake, and deserves to be a winner, no matter how well he did!

:sarcasm:

(I'm right there with ya.)

[seabeyond]

81. i am a .. not messin around .... kinda momo and kids clearly know i love them and expect the best

for them. not a tough one to do. they also have ultimate trust. everything i have done for the kids is best interest, even if not perfect.

[Raschel]

29. Mom and dad should be forced to wear signs announcing their shortcomings.

[haele]

221. Actually, if I got to that point where nothing would reach that kid other than

hitting rock bottom, I'd be out there right next to him when I had him out there with the sign.
I can take the humiliation of standing out on the street.
I can't take picking up the pieces after he's been permanently maimed - mentally and physically - living under a bridge and standing out on street-corners with a different type of sign, along with all other slacker post-teeners because "it's too hard to do anything".
I see an increasing number of those adult children - and they don't care. They don't want to improve themselves, because they have decided that if mommy and daddy aren't going to pay their way, since there's a system for people who actually do need help, why should they make the effort to try to work when they can just hang out and have fun?

Hell, rich people don't work, all those families on the Disney channel apparently never worked, so why should they?

I've met, dealt with, and am still dealing with young people with this type of attitude. When Mom and Dad had enough and finally kick them out of the house, after they've stole what they consider rightfully theirs from family, they head straight for any shelter they can find, whining about "how abused" they've been and how they need sooo much help.

And young people with this attitude of lazy entitlement actually hurt the cause of the majority of kids who really have been abused, the young families who really have no where else to go and desperately need a hand to get on their feet. Because even if there's only one or two percent of young people or families in an area claiming to need help that are really aimless, lazy, punks - that's the group the local press and politicians will hold up as examples when they want to strip funding from community support organizations.

My opinion - the parents saw, or thought they saw, he was heading straight for those rocks. Once throwing time, attention and "special treatment" after him didn't work, they apparently did what they thought would be the closest, safest clue by four they could give him. And that's the most important to consider from this remote distance from the actual situation.

Right or Wrong.

You and I may not do that with our kids, but our kids might not be so self-absorbed that standing by them in public humiliation is the only way to get through to them before they sail willfully off a cliff.

Haele

[seabeyond]

227. you took the time. this is how i see it. thanks. nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

337. Meet my brother...

Towards the end of high school my parents apologized for pushing me too hard and swore they wouldn't repeat the mistake with my brother, I didn't feel that hard done by but whatever... To this end they indulged his athletic fantasies for years and years and years, my brother had neither the skill or work ethic to make the NHL but don't dare discourage him! Somewhere around his fifth year in high school I had a blow-out fight with my parents after I said something "discouraging" to him. (I had found him a job he didn't show up for) and you would think I had just brought Courtney Love home and announced our engagement!

So now as a grown man in his thirties he is struggling to put together an actual career and every leg up he has been given he has squandered. He and his girlfriend are living in my house rent free (I am working abroad) on the condition they save what would otherwise be rent money. It is quite apparent this isn't happening.

He squandered his latest real job opportunity when he just didn't get around to submitting his background check on time, before that he abruptly got in touch with his jewish heritage (which begins and ends at his dick) and proclaimed he just wouldn't be comfortable working for a catholic school. His current job is working at a community sports center where his co-workers are teenagers and his supervisor is 19. I have just sort of accepted I am going to be financially supporting him for the rest of his life.

[seabeyond]

338. maybe, it is people like us with sibling like this.... lol, that allow us to see

this a little differently.

yup

i know that dude.

[Hello_Kitty]

368. Clearly, the lack of public humiliation is what caused your brother's lack of ambition.

Sheesh, people act like there are only two choices: Treat your kids like hothouse flowers OR be an abusive dick. No middle ground.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

375. It isn't simply about humiliation, it is about discomfort

His lack of ambition has never made him physically uncomfortable, he knows he will never be homeless, never go hungry and never really want to anything he really cares about.

[proud2BlibKansan]

290. Best reply in the thread!

:thumbsup:

[sufrommich]

35. Treating your child like a precious little snowflake does more

harm to their self esteem and future than anything else.American's could take some lessons from their Asian counterparts.There is nothing wrong with letting your kids know that failure is not an option.

[cali]

38. you know, it really depends on the child. children are individuals

[sufrommich]

46. I'll agree to that. I know you're a parent and I am too. Personally,

if I knew my son could do better but refused to try, that would not sit well with me at all. I was lucky, my kid loved school and did well, but if he wouldn't have,I would be just as exasperated as these parents are. Fifteen year olds don't understand that whole actions have consequences thing yet.

[tigereye]

188. big meeting with school and psycho-ed evaluation

should have been the next step, if not already done. I understand their frustration, but it's a bit too much of the public pillory for me.

[seabeyond]

83. true that. i do both my boys differently, cause they are different. nt

[whathehell]

47. "Nothing wrong with letting your kids know failure is not an option"?

Um..Yes there is, because all of us fail, at one time or another

f you want a self-hating little fascit, otoh, knock yourself out.

[sufrommich]

49. I meant failure at school,but I think you knew that. nt

[seabeyond]

84. kids will meet expectation. and if that expectation is nothing, that is what you will get

lots of parents parent like you. not an option, lol, in my house.

[Hippo_Tron]

255. It's not all or nothing, though...

You can expect your kids to do well in school without putting undue pressure them to be the class valedictorian.

[seabeyond]

272. the parent is asking the kid not to be a D student. i dont think that is too high an expectation of

a child that has proven capable. giving him opportunities for help, the school willing to help. those are bare minimum expectations. i see nowhere the parent is demanding 4.0 and beyond.

[Hippo_Tron]

297. The poster above said that "American parents could learn more from Asian parents"

And I presume in saying that, he was referring to the Amy Chua method of parenting which is demanding a 4.0 and under no circumstances is anything less an option.

[seabeyond]

299. ahhh. i see. thanks for the clarification. nt

[Raschel]

52. That's quite a broad swing from public humiliation to "a precious little snowflake".

There is a stable medium.

[whathehell]

55. Yes, there is...Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious. n/t

[sufrommich]

If you read the article, they tried the stable medium. It didn't work. nt

[FLAprogressive]

67. Yeah, but, yeah but, he's a victim and obviously none of this is his fault.

:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

87. that is it. this is exactly it. create him as a victim. not responsible for the repercussion of

his lack of action. teach him something really productive. to claim victimhood.

[FLAprogressive]

103. Seems like no one can agree on what he's actually a victim *of* though besides big bad mommy

humiliating this poor, poor child who is clearly too young to be responsible for anything.

[seabeyond]

108. on the one hand we want them to be able to live an adult world, on other, they are incapable

of being responsible for anything.

talk about a messed up way to raise a kid

[Raschel]

71. They've offered help, asked to see homework, grounded, lectured him and confiscated his cell phone.

The only positive I see on this list is "offered help". "Offered help" doesn't sound too engaged. We don't know what that entails. Asked to see his homework? Big deal.

We don't know what the environment is like at the home. I'm guessing it's not stable if the parent is going to do something extreme like public humiliation. How about sending him to a type of learning center?

At any rate, if it's your contention that the extreme of "treating your child like a precious snowflake" spells fail, then you must also agree that the other extreme of public humiliation spells fail.

[seabeyond]

91. check and follow thru with homework. time and effort and patients. school meeting

time and interest. offer help..... PLEASE lets do something, anything to get you to success.

tell me, since you see all this as lack of effort on parents part, where do you go from here. in all your wisdom. give me one.

[whathehell]

59. Guess what?

The supposed "Asian ways" of Tiger Mom have actually been REJECTED in China!...She, herself

was actually raised in America, probably by some totalitarian old fucks who made her as mean

to her kids, ad they were to her....People often internalize mean parents.

[Codeine]

63. Unwarranted trust and self-esteem can be as destructive as any humiliation. nt

[whathehell]

69. "unwarranted" ?...Guess you never heard

of Unconditional Love...Parents are supposed to give it, even if no one else can be expected to.

Psychology 101...Check it out.

[FLAprogressive]

72. So what would your solution be?

[seabeyond]

93. unconditional love is a given. and easy. for us anyway. trusting when there is no reason to

trust is lack of parenting and nothing to do with unconditional love.

what are they suppose to trust? that he will magically bring up the grades?

[whathehell]

141. No, what I meant was

the kid should trust his parents not to humiliate him.

As for unconditional love, we may think it's a given,

but a few here on the thread don't even believe it's real.

[seabeyond]

146. was how i was raised. so easy for me.

and a lifetime with kids, they know and feel it is always there.

now, when i embarrass my oldest he is tooo cute. not humiliate, unless he is talking. but cheeks turn this pretty red adn he gets two bee u tee full dimples. so really, there is not that trust that i wont do it. lol. and he unconditionally loves me so it is something he allows.

[whathehell]

167. Sorry, but

I'm not getting the "shorthand"..."now, when I embarrass my oldest son he is tooo cute, not humiliate, unless he is talking..."

And you depend in his unconditional love for YOU so that you can embarrass him?

Yeah..uh huh..sure..whatever..:eyes:

[seabeyond]

175. ah geez....

what i learned years ago when i first started having kids, there are all kinds of ways to parent. as long as the parent is parenting. at the point of them not parenting, then there is an issue.

i was teasing you a bet, yes, i like to embarass the kid, to a point and he allows cause it really is precious. if it truly bothered him, i wouldnt do it. but it is all kidns of fun for us. we are a family that love unconditionally. it is not a one way street, it is given by all. so though i am a bet out there, my kids love me anyway and give me allowance, to be me. as i do with them. it is being perfectly imperfect.

[whathehell]

196. Okay..

Sounds good to me!

[tigereye]

193. I think what you are seeing is a reaction by some parents

to aspects of the self-esteem-driven child-rearing movement (not a bad thing in general) with an overlay of the belief that kids are seldom held to account for their actions and perhaps are allowed too many "excuses." :shrug:


Personally, as I said above, I'm no fan of public humiliation or public pillory (it's like a version of the dunking stool of old), and I would have preferred more formal interventions (educational/psych eval to see why his grades are so poor) instead.

[XemaSab]

125. Which do you think is more loving?

To put him out on the street corner for an afternoon of public shaming so that he KNOWS that a 1.22 is not socially acceptable?

Or to let him sit in the corner and rot and flunk out of high school?

[Drahthaardogs]

232. No, parents give unconditional LOVE

Trust is earned. Violate it, and it takes a long time to get back.

[whathehell]

169. I'm sure that you think that..

[Drahthaardogs]

173. How has this child EARNED trust?

He is violating his parent's trust left and right, as for self-esteem, why should he have self esteem? Because he makes his friends laugh at fart jokes? Self esteem comes from doing your best at something and then reaping the rewards, whatever they may be.

The kid is abusing his parents and violating their rules. Still, I would not put him on a street corner with a sign, that is a little goofy. I would take away his privileges, put a baby alarm on his bedroom door, keep him in his room with a bed, four changes of clothes, a lamp, and his books. Everything else gets earned back, one assignment at a time.

[whathehell]

207. You are another one..

who misunderstood me...

I wasn't talking about the parent's trust

in the child, I was talking about the child's trust in the parent.

[walldude]

246. Or maybe his trust in the school system

or his trust in his country, or the government.

Maybe he saw what they were selling and decided "fuck you".

Maybe he's pissed because he doesn't like the new version of Halo. Who fucking knows.

Oh wait... DU knows. It knows everything. And it has the right wing "Winning is everything" meme to prove it.

[whathehell]

270. LOL, n/t

[seabeyond]

274. i thought the post was cute, too. nt

[whathehell]

276. See that?

We agree on at least one more thing!:hi:



Edited to say: and even more because

I know we often agree on women's issues.

[seabeyond]

286. lol. i bet

we agree on a lot of things. like you or i would do this to child.

i have just seen too many kids, capable kids, fall to the wayside because the parent didnt do their job.

[whathehell]

288. Yeah, see my edited post. n/t

[seabeyond]

292. ya... i never

worry much if i am not perfectly inline with people i know i mostly agree with. i firgure we can handle it.

:hug:

[whathehell]

280. That was funny, Walldude

and most astute...

You deserve another star just for that.

Unfortunately, I don't have another one.:shrug:

[Pithlet]

281. He hasn't even been tested for a learning disability.

Now, I'm not going to jump on the "these parents are abusive" bandwagon. I know that parents are sometimes driven by desperation to do drastic things. But I don't think things like this are a good idea. I was a bad student through high school. It wasn't until I went to college as an adult that I got my act together. I can't even imagine how something like this would have affected me had my parents done something similar. College might never have happened for me. I know these parents were desperate, but this isn't the answer.

[seabeyond]

289. as i posted below, with one child with learning disabilities and

one child with huge motor skills issues, i cannot believe a family that seems to be parents would not recognize in this kids lifetime, issues. if so, then way more going on in the household. my oldest i recognized he was different from day one. 12 hour stretch of not sleeping and the difference continued until this day.

[Pithlet]

295. I've seen it happen.

Otherwise loving parents who just cannot accept that anything's wrong. Someone I grew up with struggled and his parents simply refused to acknowledge that a problem existed. He was just lazy and that was all. Teachers who suspected issues like dyslexia begged them to have him tested, things like that. But, no, they didn't believe in stuff like that. So he struggled needlessly through school and never graduated. It's sad, but it happens. The "They're just lazy" meme is all too prevalent. You even see it here on DU. This article states he hasn't been tested. It seems to me that before it got to this, that should have happened.

[seabeyond]

296. that is true. i have seen parents with that attitude. there have been times

when i have mentioned my son and it is dismissed. never by the teachers. and i dont care. he is a blast as he is. couldn't imagine any different, and he keeps us in stitches. maybe. i also see many kids at the 7th grade take a different journey along the way and it catches them about this grade too. sophomore year?

[WatsonT]

267. Carrot/stick

you ought to employ both.

Besides: if the kid hasn't done anything right what should you reinforce?

[cali]

37. ugh. humiliation is a horrid thing to do to another personl

[Raschel]

57. It is. I'd like to see signs for the parents, "dad overeats", or "mom drinks too much".

I KNOW they have their own issues. Everybody does.

[Hello_Kitty]

370. But not if you're doing it to a kid, apparently.

A lot of people are just fucking bullies IMHO.

[somone]

7. "My mom says I'm stupid and I hope you agree"

There is something wrong with that household

[seabeyond]

9. no, his grades show he isnt putting forth the effort... do i need an education? nt

[Raschel]

31. Reminds me of Michael Landon running home because his mom would hang his wet sheets out the window.

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. I had the same thought! Posted it above. It was acted out in the movie

about his life.

[Raschel]

51. Oh, okay! I saw the movie too. Same concept AFAIC!

[cleanhippie]

318. That's not what was on the sign. Why are you making things up?

[knitter4democracy]

10. In a year, he'll be at a school like mine.

Then, his teachers there will start going through all of the barriers he's erected and ones that should have been dealt with ages ago (likely learning disabilities/processing issues, etc.), and there's a good chance he'll turn around. They almost all do eventually. Some kids just have to learn the hard way.

[tigereye]

200. there's the likely answer- you could argue that these

parents were crying out for someone to do that, since they could not think of anything else to do, or no one offered them other options.. (although that seems unlikely)..

[seabeyond]

213. wht ultimately set the parents off to this, they were at a school meeting and the kids showed

no interest....

i dont know what that entailed.

[tigereye]

224. I've seen that many times in my work =

it's an act or a sign of a deeper MH problem. Most kids deep down want to be able to succeed, but don't have the tools or proper treatment if it's an MH issue, or enough consequences or supports. Once they get in some kind of counseling or supportive situation, they often can turn it around.


:hi: sea!

[knitter4democracy]

302. Classic coping skill.

They shut down when they feel attacked or overwhelmed. Others act out like comedians to take the adults' eyes off of the fact that they can't do the work.

Trust me, the kid gets it. There usually is another reason why grades are low rather than the student doesn't know he has to do his homework, study for tests, and do well in school.

[knitter4democracy]

301. Many of our students' parents are at their rope's end.

The reality is, kids mature at different rates. Almost all eventually do, though, so some just need a bit more time to master high school.

[meegbear]

11. Kid's gotta learn you don't get any pudding if you don't eat your meat

[seabeyond]

14. lol. i like. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

13. How do you cure a case of "Don't give a f__kitis..."

He should, at this time, see a child psychologist and the family should go to counseling.

[MattSh]

24. Well, that's just fine...

IF you have health care coverage, and IF your health care covers counseling...

[tigereye]

202. schools usually have some of these services available inter=

nally, or at reduced cost.

[Ozymanithrax]

231. Didn't say it would be easy. I have a child with Aspbergers, and it has be dificult...

but, as a father, I don't feel I have the option of abandoning a difficult child.

This kid has problems that carrying a sign on the street corner and public shaming probably won't cure.

[exboyfil]

33. At 18 put his

stuff on the streetcorner and be done with it. It is his life to flush down the toilet. Remember what the judge in Caddyshack says, "The world needs ditch diggers too".

So long as my daughters are trying, they have a place in my home. When they stop trying, then we have a conversation. If I don't like the answer, then heave ho out the door (assuming they are 18 and have reached graduation age).

Of course she should have been tried only after you understand what the kid wants. You have to work for your bread so what are you prepard to do?

As far as embarassing him - counterproductive and needlessly cruel.

[Ozymanithrax]

236. I don't see children as throw away items.

I have a Son with Aspbergers, who is not 28, and who may never completely manage his life.

Public shaming is an old approach, but probably not the best way to handle the problem. At this point the kid needs profession help to figure out why he doesn't give a damn.

Though at 18, he could join the military.

[knitter4democracy]

304. What if they stop trying for a reason that's reasonable but you don't like?

Depression, pregnancy, chronic illness, coming to the end of their ability to master a processing disorder . . . I can think of many reasons why a kid would stop trying, all of which are valid.

Personally, while I understand where you're coming from here, I have to strenuously disagree. That sends a message of conditional love and support, which isn't really love at all. I teach too damn many kids whose parents have kicked them out. It's not okay.

[exboyfil]

348. But I would bet in most cases it

is just a failure to grow up. Every family has one. I have an uncle who road the parent gravy train until both parents were in the ground and the SS and pension checks stopped. He thought it was nothing to steal money intended for my grandmother's care from my dying father.

How much coddling promotes behavior? A couple who are friends have two daughters with five kids between them - not a man or a support check in sight. At over 50 they are too old to start raising another family. What if they laid down the law at the first pregnancy?

Of course if one of my daughters was in that situation, I am not sure what I would do. I would probably accept her and the child because of my love for both, but it would be hard. I am hoping that I am setting the groundwork for their future now by my active involvement in their education. Fortunately, both are very intelligent and talented and probably can accomplish more than I will ever do.

As far as an illness of course that is a far different situation. Depression possibly the same.

You can still love someone without facilitating this type of behavior. In contrast to most on this board, I think the state does the same thing. I am of the strong opinion that you should do something - anything for a welfare check. Those unemployed should be spending 8 hours/day five days a week either looking for a job or improving their skills for another job.

[knitter4democracy]

361. That's an easy cop-out, saying they are refusing to grow up.

Look, I teach in an alternative high school (snow day today). I have far more students who are homeless because of some reason their parents thought was okay than because they refused to grow up. Yes, kids mature at different rates, and some take longer to figure out life than others, but most of the time, if a kid is screwing up in school, there's another reason.

Many are immature because of processing/mental health disorders that haven't been diagnosed yet. Their parents just call them lazy and give up rather than fight to get them tested, and then when we catch it, it can be darn difficult to get them the help they need because of the lengthy process.

Teen pregnancy is on the rise in my county, and I deal with it every day at work. This year, we have a 16 y.o. with two kids. Your daughters will most likely be sexually active in some way under the age of 18, and there's always a chance of pregnancy or worse. The local high school has had a chlamydia and gonorrhea epidemic--over 50 cases this year alone so far. The schools aren't allowed to cover sex ed the way they used to (though we do and can get away with it), but parents don't seem to understand that and just don't say much other than to not engage in sex. Then, of course, it's the girl's fault when she gets pregnant (usually by a much older man).

Drug use is pervasive, too. Kids are great at sneaking it, and it's hard for parents to completely crack down on their kids' use. If they ban it from the home, then the kids do it elsewhere.

Still--most kids with low grades have good reasons to have those grades. They act out in class to cover the fact that they don't/can't understand the material, they shut down in class often for the same reason, and then they start skipping. This isn't due to maturity but instead usually to a much bigger issue the adults don't want to admit is there or deal with.

Telling your daughters that they'll only have a roof over their heads while they work could be setting them up for failure, and it sends the message from an early age that they're only loved and okay if they're worth being loved. Why not save that message for if they start screwing up and you've exhausted all other routes? I'm all for tough love when it's needed, but it's not needed in your home yet.

[knitter4democracy]

303. I don't think that's the problem.

I'd wager that it has far more to do with a processing disorder, an undiagnosed mental illness issue, or something similar.

[pipoman]

17. Humiliation is ineffective

and he will resent it forever...she can never take it back..

[socialshockwave]

25. Yup.

I'd NEVER do that to any kids I would have.

Seems like she didn't want to put in the effort to try harder to help him.

[seabeyond]

27. offered help, asked to see homework, grounded, lectured him and confiscated his cell phone.

indifference in school meeting.

why do you conclude they didnt bother to put forth an effort to help. and this is an effort..... to help. maybe not your choice, but again, it is an effort to do something instead of being a lazy parent doing nothing.

you realize how much humiliation the kids will feel everytime he has to tell someone he failed HS?

[cali]

40. perhaps he has psychological problems

[seabeyond]

98. perhaps. or learning disabilities. with the little info we have, it seems none of that is the case

and the kid is lazy and doesnt do. that is all we have going. if it is otherwise, then shame on parent.

[seabeyond]

107. post #97 below

"I live here in the Tampa Bay area. The full story isn't posted here. This child had good grades up to a point then decided that he didn't care. He decided to only answer 4 questions on the FCAT (annual Florida exam to measure academic progress). This is a test given over the course of 1 week up until grade 11. He made that choice and said he didn't feel like doing the test anymore. So kudos to mom. She is doing what she needs to do. Show him what his future will be with a little OJT. Additionally, Mom and Dad both are employed. According to the news broadcast, she is a hairstylist and dad has a lawn care business. So they have modeled hard work for their child. He is just choosing to be a knucklehead and stubborn"

[Raschel]

34. And kids develop differently at different times. He may be great college material 20 yrs from now.

[WatsonT]

268. Humiliation is quite effective actually

Do something wrong and have an entire crowd of strangers stare at you in disgust and you won't likely do it again. You weren't physically forced or threatened in any way but you were humiliated.

It works, that's why it's been employed so effectively throughout history.

[superduperfarleft]

279. Yes, the public stocks were a splendid idea.

We should totally bring that back.

[WatsonT]

284. Yep, that's exactly what this is

the stocks. No difference whatsoever.

But I suppose our current solution of "lock 'em up" is clearly the best and has worked wonders at reducing the crime rate and deterring recidivism.

[Hello_Kitty]

366. It is exactly what it is. eom

[joeunderdog]

309. Short term gains. Long term problems. Why do you think the kid's passive aggressive?

[WatsonT]

371. Because he hasn't been 'given'

enough self-esteem.

If he just felt a little better about himself he would just somehow understand math and science and grammar.

[pipoman]

313. I'll bet you love Sheriff Joe Arpaio..n/t

[cleanhippie]

319. Perhaps, but all other efforts were ineffective too.

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. While I sympathize with her frustration, I cannot condone her actions.

I struggle with a chronically unmotivated teenager myself. At times it's all I can do to resist the urge to slap him upside the head while screaming, "why don't you get it?"

I've got a really bright kid, but a totally unmotivated one. And he'll freely admit it! I know first hand how aggravating it is, but I would never ever subject my child to the humiliation of public ridicule. I'll leave that for him to arrange on his own.

[azurnoir]

39. the kid is 15 anyone that supports this act

really doesn't get it, at 15 it is time to tell the kid "look it's up to you what do you want here after all it's your future not mine McDonalds and Walmart are always hiring and you can get a room somewhere on what you'll earn keep in mind once you are out of school your paying rent

worked for me

[lonestarnot]

41. This is fucking ridiculous. She should be chained with a sign around her neck saying I'm a stupid

Mom.

[sarge43]

42. As usual this article doesn't address important questions

1. What is the boy's academic record? Has he always been an indifferent student or is this a recent change?

2. Has he any interests or is he generally indifferent?

3. What are his relations with the other students and his teachers?

4. Has he had a medical exam? I was failing in school until someone figured out I was acutely myopic.

Humiliating this boy could be the worst possible thing that could be done to him and in any case it's a poor motivator.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chowhound]

99. parents who apparently didnt teach u about name calling

so, how did you decome an expert on idiots and assh*les. it's so easy to cast stones from the sidelines isnt it?

[tigereye]

205. exactly...

[Pacifist Patriot]

256. Excellent points!

[sarge43]

261. The kid might be a bad seed or a slacker. However,

there could be other reasons and those should be examined before making him an object of ridicule. Down thread an article was posted which said he's never been tested for learning disabilities. Those can range from slow hearing lose to a brain tumor and many possibilities in between.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. "someone reported Holder to the Department of Children and Families"

"Someone" did right.

CPS her ass.

[dembotoz]

56. oh shit--this sounds like my kid

the youngest of 3
same age---15
same or similar gpa

he just did not want to do homework, was not snotty just never did or turned in homework.
i understand the mothers frustation and if it would work- my kid would be on the street corner next to the other goof off.

What seems to be working for us(still a work in progress) is hockey.
He loves hockey--as is his grades were so low he was inelligible to play.

But he could go to practice and practice
To the uninformed--hockey practice is hard.
Hockey practice is not fun. Games are fun.
Practice is not.

So i paid his ice fees--a thousand i would have loved to spend elsewhere--
and he went to practice everyday at 5 am with his team.
At home games he sat in the stands next to me.
At away games--he did not go, he was not on the team.
team dinners--stayed home
team tournement--stayed home

but he went to practice and the coach worked him hard just like everyone else.
His coach is a good man

he got to explain to the other kids why he was not playing
he got to explain to the other parents (he has known some of them thru hockey for like 8 years) why he was not playing.

he stuck with it. And i drove him every day to get him there at 5am everyday.
There is a rant about getting up at 4am to get your kid to a sport he is not playing in--but that is for another time and place.

Humiliated????
you betcha (for me too)

But is SEEMS to have worked.
Something finally got his attention.
His grades are MUCH better

[sufrommich]

61. Yeah, my sister took away her my niece's phone and

facebook until she raised her grades. Worked like a charm.All A's and B's now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

58. He knew by age four that school wasn't meant for him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=440&topic_id=111&mesg_id=111

Humiliating him as a 16 year old doesn't solve the problem.

Posters here say that boys only fail because parents don't care. The problem is that there are only a few levers that parents can pull to encourage improved grades, humiliation being one of them.

Maybe parents aren't the problem.

[FLAprogressive]

62. I still don't understand why the kid is being absolved and the parents are being vilified

The parents have apparently tried every option, and dealing with any FL school district is a headache in and of itself. They're probably frustrated and desperate.

Why are people oh-so-willing to absolve the kid of any responsibility and victimize him? I really don't feel sorry for anyone who's not willing to at least try...."indifference at a school meeting". Maybe he needs to be taught responsibility.

[chowhound]

78. or taught that there are consequences to your actions

wouldnt want a 15yo to learn that. what about when he graduates and finds out that no one wants to hire someone with a 1.2 gpa in h.s. then what? well there's always crime then prison. but thank god no one humiliated him. nope,wouldnt want that.

[emilyg]

79. +1

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

197. "Absolve"? AH, yeah, right, the old False Dichotomy fallacy. -nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

258. Failure in logic on your part.

I find the mother's actions heinous, but that doesn't mean I let the kid off the hook for his responsibilities. One does not necessitate the other. You can think the mom is positively abusive for humiliating her child in public while agreeing the child needs a major attitude adjustment.

Where have you seen folks absolve the kid of responsibility? I've seen plenty of suggestions that were not mentioned as potential remedies in the article. We honestly don't know if all resources have been exhausted. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't.

Victim? If someone had forced you to stand on a street corner for four hours wearing a humiliating sign tell me how you'd feel. Victimized or vindicated?

[Hello_Kitty]

372. Because humiliating him is a sick and mean thing to do.

It's a form of psychological torture and the mom is nothing but a bully.

[Brilliantrocket]

65. I think the whole "try your best" attitude is bunk.

Chinese kids don't score better in math because they "tried their best". It's because they know that they will bring shame to their family if they do anything less than the best. I was at a restaurant and heard a mom say this to her child " Winning is nice ,but the most important thing is to try your hardest". This attitude is holding us back. When I have kids I will FORCE them to be the best. Cell Phone? When you're 18 you can get a cell phone. Video games? Not on my watch. American parents don't like using tough love.

[Fire1]

86. They want to be their "friend." It's pathetic. n/t

[seabeyond]

101. that is the big one. i agree. nt

[Dappleganger]

100. "When I have kids..."

ROFL

Get back to us when they are teenagers and fill us in on your perfect little plan.

[Brilliantrocket]

110. The Asian parenting style seems to work best.

When I was in high school all of my Korean friends had pretty much perfect GPAs. How did they do it? Their parents made them obedient. As teenagers they occupied their time with homework and violin. No friends or tv on weekdays. The one I still talk to got a free ride through college. He would have went to Northwestern ,but his family is DIRT POOR. That's right his family was poor and they still found enough time to make sure he studied.

[Dappleganger]

117. What is "best"?

Many of their tactics use humiliation and abuse (yes, they do). Obedience out of fear or shame isn't even on my list of parenting goals. I don't raise trained dogs.

[Arugula Latte]

164. sounds like "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother"

This mother would not accept anything other than As, made her kids practice violin/music for hours a day, allowed no sleepovers or playdates, and once even rejected handmade cards from her girls because they hadn't put in enough effort. Yes, the children will be successful -- but at what price? What kind of a childhood will they look back on? There is more to life than just pure success as measured by grades or money.

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Hymn-Tiger-Mother-Chua/dp/1594202842/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298317760&sr=1-1

[sufrommich]

168. That Asian mom is the extreme and not typical of most asian

parents. They do have high expectations though and demand the best from their children. Nothing wrong with that.

[jberryhill]

273. Yes, because the non-achievers have the decency to kill themselves

Japanese loser teens off themselves at double the rate of US loser teens.

[Hippo_Tron]

104. Which often leads to kids with serious issues later in life

I agree that you need to get an education to be successful and that a D average that this kid has, isn't going to cut it. But you don't need to graduate at the top of your class to be successful in life.

Additionally, kids are eventually going to need to learn to motivate themselves when you aren't there cracking the whip once they are adults. My parents always pushed me to get decent grades (B's), but if I didn't get an A they weren't disappointed (even though they knew I could do better if I studied more). As a result, once I was in college and away from my parents, I was fully used to having my academic performance being completely in my hands. I made the conscious decision for myself that B's were not good enough and that I needed to start getting A's and that's what I did. Other kids I know got straight A's in high school and then slept through class and played video games all day when they got to college because they no longer had their parents forcing them to study.

Granted kids are different and some need more motivation than others. But, forcing your kid to be the top of the class if they don't want to be, isn't going to do them any favors in life.

[Brilliantrocket]

119. Well we can just disagree then.

If my child isn't #1 , they'll be studying until they get there. Maybe it's different for non immigrants. My family came here from the Soviet Union to get something better. Every time I failed I was reminded of it. I'd say it helped me. Simple as that.

[Hippo_Tron]

159. Why do you equate academic success with life success, though?

I fully agree with teaching your kids that in order to be successful at something, you need to work your ass off and strive to be #1. I just don't agree that it has to be academics. There are plenty of valedictorians who don't go on to do anything great. Maybe your kid will be destined to be a great musician, or start a successful business, or have a successful career in politics. Academics is one facet of life and it's certainly a very important one. But being #1 in your class is not a pre-requisite for success nor is it a key to success.

[Kievan Rus]

240. Agreed. Bill Gates was a bad student and is now one of the richest people in the world.

Thomas Edison was a bad student and became one of the most famous inventors in human history. Albert Einstein was a bad student and is one of the most famous and well-respected scientists in human history.

[Kievan Rus]

241. You do realize Bill Gates was a bad student, right?

And I don't think anybody would call him unsuccessful. Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein weren't very good students either...and they both went on to change the course of human history.

I'm sorry, but doing well in academics only means as much as how successful it makes you as an adult.

[AlabamaLibrul]

346. I'll just be frank, it sounds very Randian. What if your child is born with a learning disability?

eom

[Arugula Latte]

161. "When I have kids I will FORCE them to be the best."

Sure, let us all know how that one goes ...

:rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

176. "When I have kids I will FORCE them to be the best."

Good luck with that.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

220. So, what if there's another three kids with "good" parents in the same class...

...and yours ends up being #3 or #4? Am curious.

[Brilliantrocket]

225. Top 1% is good enough

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

228. How magnanimous of you.

:eyes:

[walldude]

238. Oh yeah let's be more like the Chinese...

Fucking brilliant... really. Let's raise our kids like the most oppressive humans on the planet. Let's censor them, put them in jail for opposing government policies, put them to work in sweat shops and run them over with tanks when they get unruly.
Then they might get good grades because it will shame their families if they don't.

[Oak2004]

310. Chinese kids do better in math because the Chinese language makes the answer to math problems

much more obvious than English does.

Chinese parents don't actually raise their children abusively. I know -- I lived near a Chinese immigrant community, and the kids were actually raised less strictly than I usually see in the US.

I always knew when families with kids were visiting the Buddhist temple. You could hear the kids screaming and shouting with joy as they ran in circles around the altar area. You tell me how the same behaviors would go over in a typical American church.

[southernyankeebelle]

73. Congratulations parents now you enforced your son's insecurities. Way to go. I

can tell you screaming and putting the fear of god into a child won't do it. I can remember trying hard to do my times tables and I would start crying when it was getting harder and my dad would yell at me. You felt stupid and back then parents didn't think it would hurt them. Am 63 yrs old and I still remember my dad calling me stupid. Don't get me wrong he was a good dad but he just wasn't the right person to teach. Other than that what a great dad he was. We had neighbor kids that would come over and ask if my dad could come out and play. This kid might have some learning problem and his parents haven't found it yet.

[Brilliantrocket]

121. Yelling is useless ,but I can see studying until you get it right.

[GSLevel9]

88. fantastic... BRAVO!!! As a father of a 16 year old

I'm going to try it, too!!!!!!!

[Poll_Blind]

89. It IS humiliating, but it's nothing compared to the humiliation he's going to have to endure for...

...the rest of his life if he doesn't bring up his grades. If four hours of humiliation can get his ass turned around to realize the importance of education in his future it's nothing compared to the grief he's going to spare himself over the course of his lifetime.

I remember seeing at-risk teens in the Scared Straight program, seeing what being inside prison is like, talking to inmates frankly about how fucked their lives would be. Sometimes reality-checks like this can be useful.

PB

[Hippo_Tron]

109. I don't think this is comparable to scared straight

This is an attempt at humiliation in order to get him to shame him into changing his behavior. It's not a glimpse into what his future could turn out to be if he doesn't get his shit together.

[Dappleganger]

92. As a parent I find this disgusting.

There are such things as natural consequences. He may need to be held back again. Not every kid is college material, that's for sure. I don't believe that humiliation will prove to be effective both now or in the future.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. Disgusting

[Dappleganger]

105. Was hoping you'd chime in...

would you care to elaborate? I'm in the natural consequences camp for that age.

[proud2BlibKansan]

249. I never approve of public humiliation

It borders on child abuse, IMO.

[FourScore]

244. Yep. I agree. n/t

[pipoman]

96. I would like to know if those who defend this woman

also agree with Sheriff Joe?

[sufrommich]

97. This from a Yahoo poster who lives in Tampa and saw the

original report on Tampa television news:

"I live here in the Tampa Bay area. The full story isn't posted here. This child had good grades up to a point then decided that he didn't care. He decided to only answer 4 questions on the FCAT (annual Florida exam to measure academic progress). This is a test given over the course of 1 week up until grade 11. He made that choice and said he didn't feel like doing the test anymore. So kudos to mom. She is doing what she needs to do. Show him what his future will be with a little OJT. Additionally, Mom and Dad both are employed. According to the news broadcast, she is a hairstylist and dad has a lawn care business. So they have modeled hard work for their child. He is just choosing to be a knucklehead and stubborn"

[Dappleganger]

102. Natural consequences are for the best.

Don't do the work? Then you fail a grade level and go through the entire thing all over again. It's not the end of the world.

[seabeyond]

111. statistically look at the numbers of kids that age that fail, who end up dropping out of HS

without a degree.

[Dappleganger]

123. That's because they weren't given another way out...

there are alternatives to the traditional high school which many parents refuse to explore, and these result in technical training and a high school diploma (or at worse a GED).

But hey, we're only on our third 15 yr. old so what do I know. ;)

Edited to add: ALL of our kids are in school...one graduated last year with honors, another will graduate this year and his grades/test scores are even better. The other 2 are in middle school (the 15 yr. old we held back a year in kindergarten and have never regretted it). Elementary school they get me on their butts about their work. They have "goals and incentives" to get certain grades depending upon their individual challenges. Middle school is a transition period, going from we parents helping to them becoming responsible for their own stuff while we check their online grades (LOVE that--no surprises, ever).

In high school they are checked on but are on their own. Oldest daughter did fine with that, the oldest son struggled with two of his AP classes in 9th grade then figured out that he did NOT want to retake anything so that he straightened himself out.

[Hippo_Tron]

132. As I said below, put him to work for his dad until he gets his shit together

Some 15 year olds just don't have the maturity or the interest to do well in a high school setting. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. Put them to work and let them learn some life skills. When he decides that being successful is important, he can get his GED and take courses at a community college and then transfer to a four year school.

The one size fits all model of four years of high school then, ideally, four years of college just doesn't work for some kids.

[Dappleganger]

152. Agreed.

Even Europe puts their students in "tracks" to accomodate this, and it works out quite well.

[Hippo_Tron]

165. The European model restricts access to higher education by doing that, though

And so while I like some aspects of their system, others I don't. I think it should be perfectly fine for this kid to decide at age 15 that he has no interest in academics and work for a few years and then decide by the time he's 18 or 19 that he wants to go to college.

15 year olds are generally not mature enough to be making decisions that will impact their futures, which is why loving parents try really hard to make those decisions for them. But ultimately we all have free will, and some kids simply can't be made compliant by the usual reward/punishment incentive structures that their parents set up. In other cases, parents are unwilling or are unable to set up those incentive structures.

[superduperfarleft]

113. Yes, the yahoo message boards are a wonderful place to find reliable sources.

I wouldn't doubt that story at all....

[sufrommich]

157. It sounds like the original news story on TV was more detailed than

the AP report. She's just relaying what she heard on the local Tampa channel.

[Hippo_Tron]

128. Why don't they pull him out for a semester and put him to work for his dad?

He sounds like he simply doesn't yet have the maturity to be successful academically. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. Some kids grow up slower than others. We shouldn't be determining a kid's future when they are 15, IMO.

[Dappleganger]

In most states that would be considered truancy.

[Hippo_Tron]

134. I think in most states they can do it once he's 16

So they may have to wait a bit.

[seabeyond]

148. not in texas. not even 17. watch brother with his boys. parents are fined and jailed. nt

[Dappleganger]

149. That's how it is here...

but we are lucky to have an alternative track which could have him working towards his GED AND getting technical training at the same time.

[Pacifist Patriot]

260. Florida: Homeschool Letter of Intent. Problem solved.

[superduperfarleft]

131. Great idea.

See, there's a lot of things that can be done before we resort to putting a kid in the stocks.

[seabeyond]

150. parent would be fined and jailed for the kid not being in school. so no. nt

[superduperfarleft]

153. He's not in school 24-hours-a-day.

If he refuses to do his homework after school, give him something else useful to do with his time. A couple of afternoons in a Florida summer raking mulch might change his attitude nice and quick.

[Pacifist Patriot]

259. That's a great idea and could easily be done in Florida.

Send a Homeschooling Letter of Intent to the county school board and you've satisfied truancy conflict. I imagine the child could probably learn a great deal in an apprenticeship with dad.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

204. This makes the idiotic stunt LESS justifiable, not more.

A child with good grades doesn't just decide to stop answering test out of the blue. There's something very wrong happening within that family. We don't have all the info to say exactly what, but there is something.

[proud2BlibKansan]

275. It's still public humiliation regardless of the reason

And IMO, you can't justify public humiliation of a CHILD. That's just sick.

[superduperfarleft]

106. This is probably just part of a pattern of emotional abuse.

I hope CPS crawls so far up that mother's ass that she starts to taste them.

[Codeine]

116. Or it may just be a shitty kid.

God knows they are a dime a dozen out there.

[superduperfarleft]

126. He's 15, for christ's sake.

All teenagers are obnoxious and lazy and short-sighted. Maybe he has issues with depression? Maybe he has some sort of learning disability? When I was that age, I was pretty similar, and I turned out alright. My parents figuratively (sometimes literally) kicked my ass up and down my teenage years, but they never resorted to something like this.

Seems to me there's a lot of things you can do with a kid like this, long before you get so low on ideas that you decide to stick him on a street corner to humiliate him in public.

[guruoo]

135. Biggest warning sign, to me...

is the fact that he actually went through with it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=472413&mesg_id=473243

[superduperfarleft]

145. Yep.

To a teenager, public humiliation is probably one of the worst things you can do to them. Obviously he thought the "alternative" was worse, and I'm very curious as to what that "alternative" was.

[uppityperson]

114. I don't know the family or their situation but wish them good luck in life. EOM

[guruoo]

118. 15 year old boy submissive enough to agree to this must have been abused as a child, IMO.

I may be wrong, but this smells like a case of abuse conditioning.
By 15, if my parents told me I had to do something this crazy I would have laughed at them.
In any case, there has to be more to this story than what they're telling.

[seabeyond]

124. well, i have an almost 16 yr old and never been abused. if i told him

he had to do this as a repercussion to his choices, he would. that was something i noticed in the kids is that he complied. and that tells me, that there is still the bond there of respect that the kids capitulated.

[superduperfarleft]

127. Or fear.

How afraid must he have been of the repercussions at home in order to agree to do something like this?

[seabeyond]

129. hm... not much it seems. the parents spent a lot of time on other forms of repercussions

doesnt seem like the fear factor was all that high

[superduperfarleft]

130. For a 15-year-old to agree to something like this, clearly the alternative was worse.

And to a teenager, I can't imagine anything much worse than public humiliation.

[seabeyond]

136. i dont agree. i think it is evidence there is still that respect toward parents and maybe

evidence that this is not the HUGH that people on the board are making it.

my kids do what i tell them. because they are fearful? no. because it is their lifetime thru respect and trust i have gained the connection that they do what i tell them, even in punishment.

they remind me they are grounded of puter. i forget.

i can easily see me telling my boys they are going out there, why they are going out there, and what i hope they learn going out there. they wouldnt want to, but they would.

and i wouldnt ask them to either by the way.

just not boying it fear or abuse. to me, says she has a connection with son that he did it.

[superduperfarleft]

144. Eh, this reminds me of me when I was that age.

And I turned out alright. And there's nothing wrong with giving a kid a swift kick in the ass, but this was too far.

[guruoo]

156. You would make them stand on a streetcorner, proclaiming to the world that they're a loser?

I call bullshit! You wouldn't do it.

[seabeyond]

158. no, i wouldnt. i would be down at their school, draggin by ear to teacher

sittin in class and watching them do the work.... talk about humiliating.

and if that didnt work

boys ranch

[sufrommich]

163. Oh my God. That is perfect." Improve your grades or we'll be

going to school together". lol,the horror. :toast:

[seabeyond]

180. ya know. we have this wonderful thing, skyward. that gives all the kids grades

making it easy access to what the kid is doing and when the parent needs to step in. i. use. it. a lot.

[sufrommich]

183. We have it too. Although my son is way past high school age.

We watch our niece and nephew , me as their Auntie and their Grandparents too.It's a wonderful thing.

[guruoo]

147. I really doubt you would make you're kids stand on a streetcorner with

a sign proclaiming to the world that they're a loser.

[seabeyond]

154. no, i wouldnt. their ass would be at boys ranch up the street. a great place

that ensures kids make it thru.

i dont mess around. kids know it and meet expectation and go beyond.

wont bail them out of jail either. call dad. but i wont do it

two rules....

oh, and respect without ultimatium, just expectation

[guruoo]

160. That's better.

Bu you'd still make dad go bail them out?

:rofl:

[superduperfarleft]

162. Shit, if I'd ever gotten arrested at that age, I'd be begging the police to keep me in jail. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

166. My parents knew the judge who oversaw the local jail

They always told me, "if you ever get arrested, we'll get you out right away but you will wish we hadn't".

[seabeyond]

185. lol lol. that is funny. nt

[seabeyond]

182. i wouldnt make dad do shit. kids have to call him and beg. personally, their ass can sit in jail

if they do something to get it in there. i dont do jail. bailed brothers out a couple times, decade ago, and that is a line i dont cross.

see, now, when the kids KNOW i wont do certain things, their safety net isnt there, so they make different choices.

they really have it good and they appreciate and value it. they are also grounded kids and have an interest in their future. i am lucky

[superduperfarleft]

194. I know we disagree on this issue, but you sound like you've done a great job with your kids.

Especially when you talk about your boys on the womens' issues threads, I feel hopeful that at least some men are being raised by someone like you.

[seabeyond]

212. thanks super

and as i said, i wouldnt beat the woman up, but wouldnt do with my kids. but then, those grades, wow. dont see that either.

[guruoo]

211. You are indeed lucky...

sounds like your kids are too.

[seabeyond]

216. all around

that is for sure. thanks.

[Dappleganger]

155. 15 is plenty old enough to run away.

That's a scenario no parent with half a brain wants to endure.

[WatsonT]

269. Listening to your parents = abused?

Strongly disagree.

[Romulox]

138. What are we "educating" our children to do, exactly? Work retail? nt

[Incitatus]

140. So they can make him stand with that sign for 4 hours but can't make him do his homework.

weird

[WilliamPitt]

142. That's something my mom would do.

And it would have been effective.

[Codeine]

151. +1

After she kicked my narrow ass all over the house.

[Paladin]

170. You Can Be An Effective, Demanding Parent, Without Being An Asshole.

Believe it or not......

[FLAprogressive]

172. What should they have done?

[superduperfarleft]

174. Psychological testing. Make him work for his dad.

Ground him so deep that he doesn't see the light of day until his grades come up. Military school. There's a whole LIST of things one can try without resorting to outright emotional abuse.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

191. That is the correct answer.

But of course, humiliation rituals satisfy the punishist cravings of bad parents the most. And there isn't a lot of humiliation in military school, or in gainful employment, or in grounding.

[FLAprogressive]

199. They may not have the money to do testing or send him to military school though....

[superduperfarleft]

208. Oftentimes, the school will offer it. Then there's various state services available for low-income

people.

And as someone who's parents missed meals regularly so that I could eat, I guarantee you that they would've taken on an enormous debt to put me in one of those schools if they had to, because they were more about doing everything they could to make sure my ungrateful ass eventually became a responsible human being, than about getting frustrated and completely losing their cool.

(And I also guarantee you that they'd have had me working every free moment I had at whatever crap job I could find to pay them back.)

[FLAprogressive]

214. there is very little in the way of state services here, and what is there is mismanaged and

underfunded.

[superduperfarleft]

218. So the better alternative is public humiliation of a child who may have underlying

mental health issues?

As if I couldn't already have a low enough opinion of Florida...

[FLAprogressive]

226. and the victimization continues....

[superduperfarleft]

243. It's "victimization" to point out the kid might have underlying mental health issues that need to be

addressed?

Wow, I guess you're a big fan of trepanation too, huh? Or maybe he just needs to pray harder. :eyes:

[FLAprogressive]

247. Any "mental health issues" are pure speculation. There's an attitude among many youth these days

that school isn't important, I don't know why that possibility (that he developed a similar attitude) is not being acknowledged. I guess it would mean that there would be some responsibility taken....

[seabeyond]

219. we have boys ranch up the street. this community is lucky. it is a well run adn respected place BUT

they dont take the baddest of bad, just the kids that wont follow parents rules and arent out of control.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

210. Well, while we're on "may" territory...

...they may just be stupid jerks.

More probable, IMHO.

[Jokinomx]

171. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.....

Humiliation is not a good way to help him.

[tigereye]

179. maybe a professional psycho-educational evaluation

might have been the next step.. assuming she didn't already do that. I've seen that turn a number of kids around or pin-pointed the actual learning problem..


I can really appreciate how frustrated parents get, though, they start to feel like the kids don't care...

[BlueCheese]

187. Much more detail here.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1152321.ece

[superduperfarleft]

189. Never been tested for a learning disability....

Gee, they sure did "try everything," didn't they? :eyes:

[sufrommich]

195. "Until the middle of seventh grade, his grades were fine."nt

[superduperfarleft]

198. So he seems to completely withdraw almost overnight, and you think that's normal?

A sudden change like that is even more reason to get the kid some psychological testing.

[sufrommich]

203. I could also be drug abuse or just hanging out with the wrong

crowd.It wouldn't be the first time. Where do you get the impression that he withdrew from anything other than school?

[superduperfarleft]

209. I get the impression that the kid is depressed, that's why I used the word "withdrawal."

And if he's abusing drugs, he needs treatment, not humiliation.

[seabeyond]

223. 7th grade is it. i watched both boys, one in 7th now. middle of 7th... boom

they make there choices. that is where you are hard and fast. catching everything they do and guide them down the right path. have seen it twice. talked to parents and teachers and adm. there is something really there.

find it interesting this is where it happened.

[JonLP24]

242. If he has a learning disability

that wouldn't be unusual.

I got an award from 5th grade as best math student in the entire class and I was getting D's in math by the 9th grade.

[sufrommich]

190. "This is one child who won't be lost to the streets."

That Mom and Dad love their kid and are afraid.I feel for her.

[Hubert Flottz]

192. What's a second grader to do?

[WinkyDink]

201. Don't turn your back, Mom. J/s.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

217. Some people appear to have a need to inflict humiliation rituals the way alcoholics need to drink.

And it's just as harmful and family-wrecking as the chemical need.

Don't turn your back indeed.

[Iggo]

222. Hope she has a real good retirement plan.

[sufrommich]

229. She's a hairdresser with six kids, I'm guessing she doesn't.

Neither her or her husband graduated from high school,I would guess they want a better life for their kids than they have right now,experience has taught them that their kids education is important.That is totally understandable.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

233. Well, she'll learn the lesson she tried to teach the boy.

Namely, that actions have consequences. :nopity:

[sufrommich]

250. Maybe you should read the whole article before you get on your

high horse:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1152321.ece

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

252. "high horse"

My irony-o-meter just exploded.

[JoePhilly]

230. Sounds like she and her husband WAITED TOO LONG.

The kid is 15, and NOW they turn to something as drastic as public humiliation??

They needed to teach this kid the importance of a good education starting at 3 and continuing at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 years of age.

The reality is that THEY procrastinated. They did not take the hard stands that they needed to take earlier.

And NOW, they seek a QUICK FIX via public humiliation of their son. Great plan!!!

[FLAprogressive]

234. Apparently he was doing fine in school up until recently. So it sounds like the kid went wrong.

But don't let that get in the way of a good victimization.

[superduperfarleft]

245. I truly hope you don't have ever a depressed child or a child with a learning disability.

You'd probably tell them to suck it up and quit whining. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

283. i have a child with learnng disability. i tell him to suck it up and quit whining.

now...

it has been going on forever. we are all aware of it and know different tools to use to address. still, he is never allowed to use it as an excuse to fail. it is who he is and will be with him forever, so he has to find ways to make it in the world, as he is.

that has been working for us.

i have another child with horrible motor skills, and again something we have recognized since about 4. test, test and retested, we have to just accept has capabilities. the expectation is still there.

sounds like these parents parent. i cannot imagine that a connected parent would not recognize the child has issues that have been with them a lifetime, .... at 15.

[JoePhilly]

305. I think we are on same page ...

Parents need to be focused. And if your child has a learning disability, then you have to work hard, OR, if your child starts to slack off, you still need to work hard ....

If you need to humiliate your kid, you have failed as a parent.

[firehorse]

251. doing well, and then suddenly not... is often a sign of having been abused

sexually or otherwise.

[sufrommich]

237. They have six kids, five of them are doing well in school.This

kids grades were fine until the middle of 7th grade.Did anybody bother reading the article?

[JoePhilly]

291. My 3rd grader is 9, My 6th grader is 11. My 17 year old is a Senior.

Which means that my daugher that is now 11, she will be 12 in 7th grade. The kid in the article is 15.

My 11 year old is doing very well, and if she started to "slip", it would not take me three years to get that under control.

Our 17 year old "slipped" some ... when he hit high school ... we were paying attention, and helped him (notice I said HELPED HIM) figure out what was causing him to slip.

As a parent, either you are paying attention, or you are not.

EVERY year requires you to be on top of what your kids are doing.

My point was that, if you are using HUMILATION to get your 15 year old in-line, then you missed something much earlier.

[firehorse]

235. "shame and blame" style parenting never works

It's a symptom that the family dynamic is deeply dysfunctional. Shame and blame families often have addiction/alcoholism at its core and shaming the kid, just reinforces negative family roles such as the kid who is the family "scapegoat", or the "lost child". The kid as scapegoat keeps the rest of the family from having to face its deeper issues. I hope this family can find enough love and courage to face its problems or that they find something like alanon or family therapy.

[Lucian]

239. The responses in this thread are sickening.

Wow. I think I just stumbled into the twilight zone...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

248. Yes. Yes they are.

I said it before and I'll say it again: I was a very lucky person.

[Puregonzo1188]

254. "Honk if I need education." That sounds so productive.

How about educating him? That seems a little more useful than asking strangers whether or not he needs education.

[WatsonT]

262. Ha!

That might actually work.

[Zephie]

264. As the daughter of a tutor I totally support this mothers actions as long as she's truly at the end

of her rope. My mother tutored in our home. She had a huge office complete with whiteboards and copies of whatever books the school system was using that year that she literally replaced every time the school board updated it's curriculum. She tailored her help specifically to what our local students needed, not what say, Sylvan Learning Center would have done, and would often stay up all through the night going through the homework of her students question by question so she knew exactly where their strengths and weakness lay and was in constant contact with her students teachers (even getting some of them second chances on failed tests). This background is important for you to understand why I think this kid deserves this.

Despite everything my mother did for her students, there were a few every year or two that would shrug it all off. One of those students who was granted a retake of his test because of my mothers pleading with his teachers decided it sounded more fun to go surfing than show up for class that day. He failed. Another decided that having a tutor meant that she could do nothing in the actual class and just learn a whole weeks worth of algebra in one hour at her weekly session. She also failed.

The fact of the matter is that some students, no matter who is on their side or what they are doing for them to increase their chances at academic achievement really may not give a damn. My mother was and still is truly devoted to her students and it's actually had such an impact on her life that it's taken a toll on her health from the long hours she's put into it. Usually she is a miracle worker and can even move a student from failing to passing in the last weeks of the school year - I've seen her do it a dozen times. But there were also the ones who would start sessions on the first day of school and would still garner an F by finals. She would rip out her hair and literally cry over these kids. These students never were the ones who had trouble with the subject - it was always the ones who just didn't care.

If this mother is truly at her wits end and every possible avenue has been attempted, and teachers, tutors, and even doctors and psychiatrists have been consulted a last resort such as public humiliation may be necessary. He needs to realize that if he doesn't change the way he's living his life that humiliations like this will be the least of his worries when he's an adult. How will he afford food, rent, a family or even just himself, if he cannot read or write or do basic math?

[JI7]

266. There must be some other problems going on with the kid

some posts said he was doing well before but suddenly just didn't seem to care. maybe depressed or something else. i don't know. but it seems like he needs some help from a professional.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

271. The kid needs to be tested.

Physical exam for medical problems? I was called "Lazy", "Slow" and "stupid".

I was exhausted all the time in the seventh grade. I was eleven years old. I had to take a nap every day after school for three hours. My thyroid had died and I was put on thyroid medication. I have to take it the rest of my life. When I started working the 9 to 5 grind, I came home and fell on my face exhausted.

I was accused of being on drugs, later, as a grown up, by bosses. I was tired all the time.

Does the kid have a learning disability? Depression? I was quite depressed because I didn't have enough energy to do my homework. Does the kid need glasses? My mother wondered why I had my nose in a book from the age of three. She finally took me to the eye doctor in the second grade and found out that I was very near sighted. A lot of kids need glasses and the parents don't believe them when they say they can't see.

The school nurse told me to point which direction the "E" went on the light box. She called that a vision exam. I sat there and kept saying "I can't see that. I can't see that. I can't see that."

She didn't hear me and nobody told my mother.

I could not have been grounded because I did not have a social life. I ate and slept and went to school and went to orchestra practice & music lessons.

Shaming and blaming a child is emotional abuse. They all need counseling and they all need to be taught ways to deal with their problems other than shame and blame. Our whole society is based on shame, blame and competition.

Read HEALING THE SHAME THAT BINDS YOU by John Bradshaw, Ph.D. He spells it all out.

[flvegan]

277. Too bad he wasn't armed.

He could have forced the teachers to give him better grades.

:popcorn:

Sorry, nobody had mentioned guns yet.

[superduperfarleft]

282. Personally, I think switching to a healthy vegan diet would do wonders for him. n/t

[flvegan]

294. Dammit.

Water out my nose. That was good, well timed. A 10.0

[seabeyond]

293. lol lol. *sigh*. nt

[Recovered Repug]

322. It might be PTSD from a circumcision.

Might as well get that in here, too. Maybe we'll have a new "Thread that never dies".

[flvegan]

326. Next, you're gonna say that the parents smoke

and have pitbulls. How long did the kid breastfeed?

[superduperfarleft]

352. The real question is...

How does he prepare his fried chicken and what's his favorite restaurant to eat at when he's visiting Times Square?

[dogday]

298. About additional tutoring, other schools that cater to slow learners

and kids with learning disabilities. No, let's just humiliate the child, that should do it....

[derby378]

306. "Mond. James Mond."

Sorry, couldn't resist.

But damn, that boy needs to shake the rocks out of his freakin' head before he's consigned to a life of remedial dishwashing.

[Renew Deal]

307. If someone tells you that they know what it takes to raise a kid, they're lying.

Sometimes you have to try things out and see what works. The humiliation now is nothing compared to the humiliation down the road in life if he doesn't get his act together.

[Hello_Kitty]

380. My father used public humiliation on my sister and me. It DID NOT work.

And we have emotional scars from it to this day.

[Renew Deal]

308. I bet this kid wasn't breast-fed as an infant.

:9

[cleanhippie]

321. Actually, he was breast fed, but it was at the Olive Garden.

[JVS]

316. 1.22 is really awful.

If she were dusting off the old dunce cap for 3.5 I could see it as unfair, but 1.22 is unacceptable.

[Hello_Kitty]

323. That'll make him excited about school, I'm sure.

:eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

325. Would those of you who approve this feel the same if your boss did it to you?

I mean, hey, if you got a poor performance review, why shouldn't your boss plop you out on the street proclaiming to the public what a shitty employee you are? I'm sure that would straighten you out, wouldn't it?

[somone]

328. "My boss gave me a bad review. Honk if I need termination."

Sign of #1 Best Place to Work :sarcasm:

Both mother and child have serious issues. No normal 15-year-old boy would stand for that shit. And no normal mother would subject her child to such public humiliation.

[Hello_Kitty]

331. Having been a 15 year old with parents who thought public humiliation was a great idea

I stood for it because I had no choice. I got the hell away from them as soon as I could and raised myself.

[somone]

334. Sorry to hear

The boy will probably do the same. The scar will last a lifetime - kids may not remember every kindness, but they will never forget the cruel things their parents do or say to them.

[seabeyond]

332. we would expect to be fired kitty.... that is the real world. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

336. I got humiliated by my father as a child and teenager, in the real world.

It didn't work. I raised myself.

[WatsonT]

373. Parent/child =! boss/employee

nor does minor = adult, or education = employment.

But if the kid doesn't do any better I think he should get used to the prospect of being reprimanded and ultimately fired by his future employers.

They don't tend to care so much about his feelings, or that he 'did his best'.

[Hello_Kitty]

379. Child =! Property

And you know who humiliates smaller, weaker people? Bullies and batterers, that's who.

[WatsonT]

383. Or you know

parents.

But we can always wait and see which response is better: the strict "succeed at all costs" strategy of most of the world or the "you're perfect and special and wonderful no matter what you do" response that is catching on here.

Our students are the best in the world right?

[Hello_Kitty]

385. Parents who are sadistic asshole bullies.

My dad thought shit like this OP was a great idea. He used public humiliation on my sister and me more than once to "correct" us. Guess what? It didn't work. I got the hell away from him as soon as I could and raised myself. After I moved out I barely spoke to him before he died. I still loathe what he did to me to this day and I am 42 years old.

[WatsonT]

386. Yeah there's a big difference

between torturing kids for fun and punishing them so they learn and can be successful.

The opposite of letting your kid do whatever they want with no discipline, no structure, and no incentive to succeed isn't torturing them. It's called being a good parent and it's was once just called common sense.

Children don't naturally want to learn math or proper grammar with a few rare exceptions. But they need those things to succeed (unless they're really talented at sports/entertainment and even then it helps). They're hard to learn later in life if you've had no basis as a child.

So how do you get a kid to do something they don't want? You either coerce or bribe them. Ideally you do both as appropriate.

That doesn't mean waterboarding them when they get an A-.

[Hello_Kitty]

387. Reading comprehension is important to learn too.

Maybe you could do with a refresher course.

[WatsonT]

388. Nope I did just fine

you tried to equate my argument for proper discipline with your experience at the hands of sadists.

Perhaps you are projecting on to me?

[Hello_Kitty]

327. Oh, and how about you stay-at-home-parents?

How would you like to have your breadwinner spouse put you out on the freeway with a sign expressing how poorly you prepared dinner and cleaned the kitchen floor?

Not okay, is it? Why is it okay to do to a kid?

[Arkana]

330. I'm sure they grounded him--sent him to his room, where he has a laptop and a TV

and broadband internet access.

Take those things away and he'll shape up. This was humiliating and unnecessary.

[DebJ]

339. Sounds like they never called the teachers, nor the teachers

called them:
"She said they have offered James help, asked to see his homework, grounded him, lectured him and taken away his cell phone — all to no avail.

"He'd tell us, 'That school doesn't give homework' or 'That teacher has a problem with me,' " Mond Jr. said."

Why didn't they call his teachers to find out his status? After three years of excuses, you'd think they'd figure that out.
You think they'd figure that out in the first year, 7th grade.

And I'm holding 3 years worth of teachers here somewhat accountable, also. How about a phone call to the parent once in awhile?

In addition to giving parents my school and home and cell phone numbers at the beginning of the year (and email addresses),
if they didn't call me, I called them, at least twice a quarter, and more for students who were constant problems. Students couldn't say they didn't have work to do, not for long. Yes, it took a lot of time, because most of the parents (95%) didn't call me first, and didn't call to check, even when their children failed an entire grading quarter. I had to call them, and call them, and call them. At least once a month, I spent about 6 hours making phone calls on weekends. This was an inner city school with big problems all around.

Didn't work with every child, but it worked with almost all of them. Those who ultimately failed were students who had serious psychological issues (and were receiving counselling and aide, and it was only 3 students out of 80.

I'm not saying all teachers should spend that much time with this, but sheesh, someone should have been calling...

[seabeyond]

341. i would imagine the slide was more gradual than three yrs of 1.2 gpa and

what sent her to this was a school meeting with the school to address the problem and his lack of interest.

who knows how many times they were connected with the teachers

[DebJ]

342. good counterpoint. n/t

[seabeyond]

343. since kindergarten my niece would say she turned in her homework and teacher lost it

for years her mom and dad (seperate in different states) would buy this and make excuses for the child. when brother got custody of daughter and brought her to this area, i would tell him, for yrs she has blamed lack of schoolwork on teachers (7th grade). confront. take daughter to teacher and ask if she had been losing the childs school work. and brother said, no, cant do with a child. humiliation. putting child in uncomfortable position. whatever his excuse. i never got it.

i had her for about a month while brother was working overseas. the FIRST time she used the excuse, "really, i did the homework", teacher doesnt like me, teacher lost it.... i went into school (private, knew all the teachers), brought her to teacher and said jade, tell the teacher what you told me about your missing schoolwork.

for the next 5 yrs she hasnt used these bullshit excuses for failures with me. she still uses them on her father, and teachers are still being blamed for his daughters failures. pure lazy on her part. she is smart. she is good, an easy child. and she is lazy.

is that too humiliating for the child?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

344. Good. Different kids respond to different motivations.

She's trying to do more than i can say for some parents.

[seabeyond]

345. something else with the whole humiliation issue. the kid had no issue with these grades while he

acquired them. wasn't too humiliated by the 1.2 to do anything about them. now all of a sudden, showing his lack of accomplishment to public it is "humiliating". as if someone did something to him, when these grades are exactly what he earned.

i have been thinking about this issue since last night. had a dinner discussion on this thread.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

347. If the shoe fits, wear it.

It really isn't all that different from abusive spouses or alcoholism.
As long as it stays in the closet, the problems will continue.


The kid has damaging behavior and seems not to care.
Discrete solutions have been exhausted. Time to step up the intervention efforts.

[superduperfarleft]

353. "Discrete solutions have been exhausted." Really?

Like having him tested for a learning disability?

[Hello_Kitty]

374. Why is it so important to you that kids be humiliated for not performing up to some standard?

What do you get out of that?

[seabeyond]

376. why is it important that a kid should not be proud or indifferent to failure?

do i really need to take the time to answer that question.

[Hello_Kitty]

381. No you don't have to answer it

And I suspect it would just be more apologia anyway.

Upthread I asked you how you would feel if your husband did that to you. You acted like the prospect was absurd. Yeah, because him forcing you to stand by the freeway with a sign around your neck announcing to everyone what a bad housekeeper you are would be degrading, wouldn't it? You consider it spouse abuse, wouldn't you? But it's okay for you to do to a kid, right?

[seabeyond]

382. But it's okay for you to do to a kid, right? wrong. and i have clearly stated a number of times

that i would not chose that as punishment, could not even envision a scenario, seeing how my kids have never even kinda gotten to the point of needing that harsh or desperate of a discipline. my kids dont even get to the point of needing discipline for the most part. talking to my kids resolve most all issues.

there is a whole part of this you fail or refuse to digest that i recognize. so i see it differently than you. and it would be a waste of time and effort for me to bother discussing it with you in any manner, because of your own personal experience.

[joeybee12]

354. The kid's problem is obvious...an asshole for a mother...nt

[WI_DEM]

356. I don't know if I approve of the sign thing, maybe tutoring at school or a special school

where he might fit in better? otherwise, if the kid just doesn't care then they need to tell him that once he turns 18 he needs to find a job to support himself and move out. If he improves in the time since then tell him he can stay at home while going into some kind of vocational program.

[DireStrike]

360. Who cares.

[Javaman]

362. I had an asshole living in the house behind mine when I was a kid...

He was a former drill sargent who lamented over the fact that he never saw action in WWII. As he would say, "I wanted to kill me some nazi's, but the government stopped me". Right, whatever.

Anyway, his son got a D in math.

Next day, the son was wearing a "sandwich" board with the following written on it: I am a moron. I got a D in math. I will do better next time". He marched (yes, marched, not walking) up and down the street all day.

Sad to say, that young boy from that very dysfunctional household, went on to kill himself 6 years later.

The other son became an alcoholic and the daughter moved away never to be seen again.

The wife, who never said a word, was like a robot.

Sad sad existence.

mr. drill sargent? what became of him? Like most old bastards he lived well into his 90's.

Leaving a trail of destruction in his wake.

[snooper2]

363. This thread is fucking GREATNESS

The teenager is probably reading this right now laughing his ass off...

:rofl:

Dude, if you are reading this, drop us a line eh? Also, if you still have the sign this is the optimal time to put it up on Ebay for some money. :hi:
Shit, I'd give you $30 just to have it in my sig line :P

And to the 3xx plus posters above...Did not ONE of you look for more info on the story? Took me a whol 32.7 seconds (my laptop is a POS ) to find not only a picture..


But VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/02/21/2011-02-21_florida_mom_uses_humiliation_to_get_teen_son_to_do_better_in_school.html

"Who is the lazy one now :P "

Back to your regularly scheduled speculation :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Iris]

364. Local DJs in Atlanta blame teachers for not doing their jobs.

yep.

"In private industry, this would cause someone to lose their job"

Yep. Students who revise to do anything are the result of bad teachers.

[Hello_Kitty]

367. Folks, as I said before, my dad did this to me as a child. IT DID NOT WORK.

Did not change my behavior a bit. But I will loathe him for it the rest of my life.

[jdp349]

377. This thread delivers!

:popcorn:

[Liberal_in_LA]

378. It sure did. Funny how every topic initiates arguments.

[Douglas Carpenter]

384. I cannot possibly be reading on a progressive website that there are people who actually think this

is acceptable or that it could possibly help the kid. No, this cannot possibly be the case. I will surely wake up soon and realize that I was having one of those strange dreams again. I guess that's okay.