SAT/ACT scores in states which prohibit collective bargaining for teachers - WOW!

[Bozita]

I just received this email:

Only 5 states lack collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Here they are, with their ACT/SAT scores:

South Carolina - 50th
North Carolina - 49th
Georgia - 48th
Texas - 47th
Virginia - 44th

Wisconsin is 2nd.

[AC_Mem]

1. I hate to be "that person"

But do you have a link to that information? I would like to share it with others, but want to make sure i have my ducks in a row on the facts from a reliable source.

Thanks very much!
Annette

[Bozita]

5. No link at this time but I'm off to look for a list of states ranked by the scores

[Bozita]

9. Got it. Here you go...

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html

[CatWoman]

15. also, Bozita -- Jay Bookman's column today discusses this

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-blog/2011/02/21/in-wisconsin-battle-its-not-about-the-budget/

[Indydem]

23. Doesn't look to me like WI numbers are enormously better.

Or that the EEEVVVIIILL collective-bargaining-is-banned states are more terrible.

[diddlysquat]

16. Thanks!

[AC_Mem]

19. Beautiful - just posted it on Facebook

Over 500 friends have just been educated!

Annette

[cali]

30. that's over a decade old data.

[Ellipsis]

2. Very telling isn't it? K&R

[KansDem]

3. Could you provide a link or statistical source, please?

I don't doubt your post, but want something to back it up when confronting TeaBaggers...

[malaise]

7. Here

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html

[Indydem]

10. That list is from 1999.

I can't believe people are continuing to cite 12 year old data as relevant.

[liberal N proud]

4. I would like to see the rest of the rankings

Do you have a link?

[Indydem]

6. Not true - out of date.

Those stats are from 1999.

WI is 18th on ACT and 3rd on SAT but Wisconsin participation in those tests are far lower than other states, meaning that only the best college bound students take the tests, unlike those other states where upwards of 60% take the test.

[Sanity Claws]

11. Can I see your stats?

I'd like to see the basis of your statement that Wisconsin's participation in ACT and SAT is far lower than other states. I can see a state being lower in one but not both.

[Indydem]

22. Sure. Here they are.

SAT Scores - 2010:
http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/policyblog/detail/2010-sat-scores-by-state

Participation is only 4% in WI and well over 60% in most of the other states that are listed in this post.

(The source is a right wing think tank, and the info IS available other places, but their chart is easiest to read) If the source is untrusted or you demand further proof, you can view each state HERE (http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2010) but you have to do it state by state as best I can tell.

ACT Scores 2010:
http://www.act.org/news/data/10/states.html?utm_campaign=cccr10&utm_source=data&utm_medium=web

This is straight from ACT itself. You can sort the scores by state name, percentage tested and average score. Participation is 69% in WI, but that still excludes 31% of students who are not going to college. Many states are testing 100% on the ACT.

Average score rank: 18th
Participation rank: 19th

[Sanity Claws]

24. Interesting but the stats do not support your original statement

You originally said, "Wisconsin participation in those tests are far lower than other states, meaning that only the best college bound students take the tests, unlike those other states where upwards of 60% take the test."

Wisconsin has a 69% participation in the ACT. That is upwards of 60%. It contradicts your earlier statement that only the best students take the tests; 69% is the vast majority of students.

Your stats also do not refute what the opening post said.

[hedgehog]

27. To be clear, for many years SAT was used east of the Mississippi

and the ACT west. Participation by Wisconsin in the SAT was 4%, in the ACT 69%

[cali]

31. right. not many kids take the SATs in Wisconsin

[Hannah Bell]

8. puts the lie to the propaganda about unions being "the problem" in education.

[lynne]

12. Those are 1999 figures. Need data from at least this century -

- as it's hard to prove a point based on twelve year old data.

[wtmusic]

13. Some fact checking

Angus Johnson at the blog, Student Activism, took a look at that and found the numbers come from a 1999 survey, and found the comparison to be weak. He writes:

State scores on the SAT and ACT are hard to compare directly, because there's so much variation in how many students take the tests. In addition, I haven't yet found a source that combines SAT and ACT scores into a composite ranking like the one in the tweet. Looking at charts for SAT and ACT results separately, however, here's what I found:

Wisconsin ranks 3rd in the nation in SAT scores, but with a participation rate of just 4%. On the ACT, with a much more representative partcipation rate of 69%, it was tied for 17th. In comparison...

* Virginia was 34th on the SAT with 67% participation, 13th on the ACT with 22% participation.
* Texas was 45th on the SAT with 53% participation, 33rd on the ACT with 33% participation.
* Georgia was 48th on the SAT with 74% participation, 34th on the ACT with 44% participation.
* North Carolina was 38th on the SAT with 63% participation, 20th on the ACT with 16% participation.
* South Carolina was 49th on the SAT with 66% participation, 44th on the ACT with 52% participation.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2011/02/5x8_-_22111.shtml

[Trey9007]

14. This may help...

http://www.act.org/news/data.html

[senseandsensibility]

17. k and r

Send this to Ed and Rachel please. It will never be mentioned on corporate TV otherwise.

[Starry Messenger]

18. k&r

[jwirr]

20. I guess the old saying "you get what you pay for" is correct.

[emilyg]

21. Gwinnett county in Georgia was named

best this year.

[hedgehog]

29. Hmmm..... do you have any comparison on per pupil spending

in Gwinnet county vs the poorest performing county in Georgia? How about per family incomes?

[no limit]

25. You know what I love about DU? Even when people would love to take the information at face value...

...they don't. They want to see sources and stats and they want those stats to be recent. When it would be far easier to simply take the information at face value as any right winger would and as most in our media would.

I love it.

[BobbyBoring]

32. Amen To that

I think we pride ourselves on knowledge of the truth. When you heard ditto heads just blindly spew the lie of the day, it makes you thankful to be around a group of thinking people~:toast:

[Yavin4]

26. I Would Like To Know The Prison Incarceration Rates for those States As Well

I guess it's easier to imprison a certain percentage of your population for life than it is to educate them.

And, I'd bet they let the prison guards unionize and collectively bargain.

[Hosnon]

28. My understanding (at least with regard to Georgia) is that it encourages everyone to take the SAT,

even students who have no desire (or realistic chance) to go to college. Therefore, the numbers are depressed.

I've always heard that but don't have a source for it; and I don't know how many states have the same policy.

ETA: "The state participation rate of 74 percent was among the 10 highest rates in the nation, according to the Georgia Department of Education." (http://daltondailycitizen.com/education/x1391190024/SAT-scores-drop-for-most-area-schools)