The Majority of America can't afford socialism ...

[GeorgeGist]

because it has a minority of obscenely, anti-social, rich people.

[Kievan Rus]

1. That, and said rich people convince Teabaggers to vote against their interests

[salin]

2. and in absense of a social safety net - all americans are expected to be able to save 20-30k

a year to pay for health insurance and annual savings for retirement. Because we all have 20 - 30K extra earnings beyond what we live upon to be able to set aside for savings and our private health insurance. :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

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[PDJane]

4. That's really convoluted reasoning.

And makes no sense whatever.

[Name removed]

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[David__77]

9. That figure is incorrect if you are talking about compensation.

Money wages actually made up a small portion of an individuals actual resources in socialist society. Housing, transportation, medical services, food, and many other things were distributed in accordance with one's "work contribution." For instance, the reason that same doctor was likely to have a much nicer home than that railway worker was not due to that 30% increment, but because the better housing was part of their compensation for being a doctor.

Socialism in the sense upheld by Marx or Lenin was never about egalitarianism, but rather about this economic distribution principle: "from each according to ability, to each according to work." It was under communism, which was never realized, that it was "to each according to need." The socialist distribution principle means a worker would make more than a small farmer, and a machinist would make more than a small handicrafts producer.

[Name removed]

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[Luminous Animal]

12. The USSR was not socialism. The Nazi's called their dictatorship socialism, too.

It didn't make it true.

[socialist_n_TN]

13. There are other models of socialism ..........

than Stalinism. Once Stalin took over from Lenin, the Russian experiment with socialism was done. It rapidly turned into a statism built on a cult of personality.

[readmoreoften]

22. +1

[David__77]

18. Yeah, well...

I wasn't really addressing the overall nature of the system, good or bad. I was only addressing economic distribution. East Germany fared much better than the Soviet Union, by the way, both in terms of openness and in terms of living standards. Again, not defending that state, but there are many former citizens of the GDR who feel that something positive was lost. There were many honest activists who were trying to build something better than capitalism.

[readmoreoften]

20. Your parents lived under Stalinism, which many call State Capitalism.

There is no such thing as socialism in one country; so long as capitalism exists it will force any opposition into a devastating war economy.

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Very nicely put, read...........

especially the last clause. There is NO country that has been able to try any kind of a socialist system without IMMEDIATE war, cold or hot, instigated by the capitalists.

They can't allow a real socialist system to exist because the comparison would NOT be good for the capitalists.

[white_wolf]

21. I swear I get so sick of this meme.

Let me make this crystal clear. There have been no socialist countries aside from the modern Democratic Socialist states of Europe. The USSR, Cuba, N.Korea, China under Mao were and are not socialist in any sense of the word. They claimed to be, but they also claimed to be a republics. So drop that tired old line.

[readmoreoften]

25. +1. I'd disagree about contemporary europe being socialist.

There is no socialism anywhere in the world. Europe is just a good old-fashioned Keynesian welfare state. And one that will likely fall to pure neoliberalism eventually.

[Name removed]

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[Boswell]

30. so is unfettered capitalism

[Name removed]

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[LuvNewcastle]

11. If we rewarded "effort," the distribution

of wealth in this country would be very different. Do people put effort into living off investments? Does a corporate CEO put more effort into his job than a waitress or a farmer? In our society, those who are most essential are often compensated the least.

[misanthrope]

34. Sorry, but I've seen plenty of scenarios in this capitalist system...

...where those who put in maximum, essential effort get royally screwed by the folks on top. Rather than that being an aberration, it seems to be the goal of business owners from what I've witnessed in my life.

[dflprincess]

6. No system is perfect.

But Socialism seems to work well in Sweden and they have more upward mobility than we do.

[mvd]

24. Agree.

Socialism doesn't have to mean that every person makes the same. But we need enough socialism to regulate corporations, make health care and other important functions paid for by the government, and to provide a strong social safety net. Why should the poor get less than people who are in prison? Work IMO should allow for upward mobility, but not determine whether or not you starve, die from illness, or lack decent shelter.

[msongs]

7. thanks, please list all the jobs you are providing so "old and crippled" can stay alive nt

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Luminous Animal]

16. Actually, society should. A small percentage of society will be criminals, a small percentage will

be addicts, and a small percentage will be parasites. In those categories there will be significant overlapping so that we are left with a small percentage of those who "bleed" the system.

Just let them go. Give them their fucking government paycheck and let them lead their own pathetic lives while the rest of us go about our business of doing the righteous work of supporting ourselves, our families, our communities, and our society.

[Starry Messenger]

17. Capitalism stays "regulated" for about an eyeblink in terms of history.

It's very design is to seek profit in any sector there is money. Hence, the situation we are in now. "Regulated" capitalism was funded by the "unregulated" capitalism in our holdings all over the empire. What you want only benefits an elite few, not the many. Fortunately, views like yours will be relegated to the dustbins.

[Name removed]

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[readmoreoften]

27. Regulated for as long as it takes for them to come up with new finance math to stop regulation.

Yep. There is no such thing as "regulated capitalism".

[TheKentuckian]

29. Fuckin A!

[leftstreet]

32. I got yer regulated capitalism right here!

[Starry Messenger]

37. Rats, I missed the reply that got deleted.

Must have been a humdinger! :D I'm suspecting someone flying the standard of armchair and carpet slippers.

[socialist_n_TN]

36. Agreed. Do I need to do my tiger analogy again???

:) Oh Hell yeah. Why not? I think it's a good one.

Regulating capitalism is like riding a tiger. It's EXTREMELY hard to do and you're always in danger of being eaten.

[white_wolf]

19. Google Democratic Socialism

Then come back to me. Or just look at Sweden, Norway, Denmark and let me know how flawed Socialism is.

[leftstreet]

23. LOL Americans always say that when they realize social mobility is a myth

All of a sudden GAACK!! Socialism!! Then they start singing "Back in the USSR." Then someone corrects them - that isn't socialism.

lulz

[Selatius]

35. But on the same token, you call for government nationalization of certain industries.

You decry socialism, yet at the same time, your critics will label you a communist for even daring to suggest nationalization of any industry.

[socialist_n_TN]

14. Agreed.

nm