Should we let FOX censor our protest signs?

[Atticus]

We were fortunate enough to be two of the over 100,000 rallying at Madison this past Saturday. It was an absolutely fantastic COLD day and we thoroughly enjoyed being in a sea of people who had their heads on straight. But, their were a couple of wet blankets.

I was carrying a large sign which had a Reagan quote on one side and the following quote from Adolph Hitler on the other:
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike."
– Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933

Two separate people, clearly associated with those coordinating the rally, approached and asked if I would consider taking down my sign because it "might give FOX and others the opportunity to misrepresent what today is all about".

I refused to stop displaying my sign and said that it was simply a historically accurate quote and that the sign made no mention of Walker or anyone else. I added that if any Republicans took offense, it was THEY who were equating Walker with Hitler and maybe they should be more concerned about that than my homemade sign.

IMHO, it is this timidity, this "nicey-nice excuse me gee I am so sorry to disagree" attitude that got us into the dangerous situation we're in. If we start worrying about offending Teabaggers by telling the truth, we are truly lost.

Comments?

[inademv]

1. You never win with Godwin's law

you would have done better to quote another union buster.

[LanternWaste]

33. When the comparison is apt, the comparison is apt...

"You never win with Godwin's law..."

A "law" merely because the Internet says so. A "loss" merely because the Internet says so... the same internet which spends millions of hours on LOL cats-- with an equal amount of validity.

When the comparison is apt, the comparison is apt. :shrug:

[bbinacan]

2. What was the Reagan quote? n/t

[Atticus]

7. "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

Labor Day, 1980

[BlueJazz]

13. I agree with you 100 percent. It's all part of showing people the sins of the past.

[ReggieVeggie]

3. I think that's more an example of self-censorship

although, seems as if many are afraid that well-meaning thoughts from people on the left might be purposefully misconstrued by the right-wing media and that is an excuse to self-censor

[Joe the Revelator]

4. Really. You made a Hitler comparison? Lame.

They were right to try to get you to take your sign down.

[GoneOffShore]

8. Uh - Okay - Yeah - Sure

Here's the quote -

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933

[Atticus]

12. Will you read the damn post and quote again? I simply displayed a Hitler

quote. You---and others---made the comparison.

What does that say about the approprateness of my quote?

[Joe the Revelator]

17. It says you're doing the same lame thing and making the same lame excuses that the teabaggers do

[Atticus]

23. And your post says you're incapable of anything beyond parrotting "conventional liberal wisdom". nt

[Joe the Revelator]

25. Keep fighting the power bro, one lame Hitler quote at a time...you're so unconventional

[LanternWaste]

35. And I imagine Godwin's Law is 'pushing the envelope'...?

"you're so unconventional..."

And I imagine Godwin's Law is 'pushing the envelope'...?

[LanternWaste]

34. I imagine you conflate the word "compare" with "contrast"

I imagine you conflate the word "compare" with "contrast". There is indeed a precise a relevant different between the two...

[Imajika]

5. You should always avoid going Hitler...

It is pretty much one of the worst things you can do, even if/when it is entirely accurate.

Bring Hitler into the conversation and almost anyone persuadable will turn against you. Audiences will simply view you as the extremist for even bringing up such things.

Further, your assuming only Fox would make a point of showing your Hitler sign. Other networks would do it as well, and all of them would do it to paint the rally as mean spirited, vicious and radical.

People on both sides actually go digging for ways to associate Hitler signs with politicians and political movements. Avoid the Hitler stuff, you and whatever cause your supporting will be much better off.

[pinkkillersheep]

11. Agreed.

It may be historically accurate, and you may believe in your heart that it is entirely warranted, but you'll never win using a Hitler/Nazi/Holocaust reference. Besides, positive messages (such as the Reagan quote) are always more effective at inspiring and persuading people to your side.

[jp11]

20. Agreed.

I'd also bet news networks might not show it, sort of long quote, but characterize it as comparing Walker to Hitler it would be 'there were at least X signs about Walker and Hitler' or 'I saw Hitler signs'.

[midnight]

6. No... but I'm sure for our safety they will....

[pacalo]

9. I wouldn't have quashed an actual historical quote for the sake of a propaganda network

that exhibits no sense of responsibility in exercising its right to free speech.

Hell no.

[GoneOffShore]

10. Kick and you were right.

And we have the unreccers out in force - Concern trolls all.

[skirt6]

14. My mother told me not to use the Hitler quote either...

So instead, I found another that I like by JFK. My mother's issue is she wants to keep the protests as peaceful as possible for as long as possible. If someone is trying to make the other look like a bad guy, then it becomes a mud-slinging contest and no one wins. While it is a totally accurate quote, and one I personally like, we must be better than those trying to ruin our way of life.

My JFK quote was: "Our labor unions are not narrow, self-seeking groups. They have raised wages, shortened hours and provided supplemental benefits. Through collective bargaining and grievance procedures, they have brought justice and democracy to the shop floor." JOHN F. KENNEDY, speech, Aug. 30, 1960

Of course, I also like Mother Jones too. She was a big union backer in West Virginia for the coal mines.

The Hitler quote is awesome, and I thank you for thinking of it. The suppression of the working man for the greater good of the upper class is happening again, and I can't help but think that history is about to repeat itself. I can only hope that my children can be kept away from the ugliness that will soon engulf not just a couple states, but the entire nation.

As for FOX getting the wrong impression... it IS what they do best

[The Second Stone]

15. The organizers were trying to help the crowd stay on message

and you should consider carefully what they say in trying to help the protest. They put the crowd together. If you want to help realize that you are pretty much just tagging along on their efforts to try to make their efforts look better and your sole judgment might not be accepted by a vast swath of people.

[eleny]

16. The shoe fits them and they can wear it

[The Doctor.]

21. There it is. My sentiments were close;

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck, tastes like a duck, and fucks like a duck, it's probably not an antelope."

[Bragi]

18. Fox should just make our signs say what they want

If they can lay down authentic looking ads on football fields, then surely they can have editors just make protest signs say whatever they think would work best with their story. That's how they stay stay fair and balanced.

[Blue-Jay]

19. I was also censored by Fox for an accurate historical quote.

"Yabba Dabba Doo" - Fred Flintstone.


How did Fox censor you again? Two people asking you for a little less Hitler is not the same as "censorship". You know that, right?

[Brickbat]

22. I have never been able to verify that quote as Hitler's -- it seems to be caught in a whirlpool of

lefty sites that love to trot it out. While he did outlaw unions on May 2, 1933, I've never been able to find any proof that he said that.

[eleny]

24. Because, after all, saying it is worse than doing it

Your reply sounds like something put out by The Onion.

[Bragi]

26. No, because sourcing a quote matters

And in this case, it seems to be that Hitler never actually made this statement.

[eleny]

27. No, it doesn't necessarily seem that he never said it. But we know that he surely did it.

So taking offense at the quote is ridiculous, imo.

G'nite.

[Bragi]

29. That's kind of funny

So it's okay to quote people saying things they didn't say, as long as they actually did the deeds being suggested in the quotation.

Hmmm, how about this one?

"It is my intention to ignore all my security reports and to allow terrorists to fly planes into the World Trade Center complex."

- George W Bush.

That would sure make history a bit clearer, wouldn't it.

So would we have special quotation marks we would place around statements someone actually made, and "quotations" from people that they didn't say, but which they may have later done?

[Balbus]

36. The old Dan Rather argument.

"Yeah, I lied, but it's probably true..."

[Brickbat]

28. Please don't put words in my mouth.

It's important to stick to facts, don't you think? So put the fact that Hitler outlawed unions on the sign, not a quote that no one is sure he said. :shrug:

[mistertrickster]

30. It was appropriate. Fascists hate unions and anything else that challenges their power.

Good quote, on target.

(Also, asking these keyboard jockeys for their opinion is asking to get abused. These are folks who think posting here is activism.)

[truebrit71]

31. 1) Godwin's law is made-up horseshit 2) Your sign was spot on

3) Fuck FuxxNoizze

[Codeine]

32. Invoking Hitler is always stupid in these situations.

Why give the other side fuel to paint you as a loon? And the quote is almost certainly a fabrication anyway.

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. Fox news is going to make you out to be whatever it is they want regardless of what your signs say.

Although signs that seem to trivialize the holocaust are a big thumbs down in my book.