Social Security "Reform" Splits White House Economic and Political Teams

[jtown1123]

If anyone doubted we still need to put intense political pressure on Obama for Social Security, this article from The Hill further describes how he is being pulled in separate directions by his staff.

I am utterly baffled why some on his economic team are convinced cutting Social Security benefits (which is completely unnecessary) will appease the bond markets...who says they aren't appeased now? People are still buying our bonds and there is no danger they will stop. This is a false choice.

I would urge everyone to keep calling and writing the White House reminding them the only "solution" would be to raise the FICA tax cap.

THE HILL

Social Security reform splits White House political, economic teams

By Alexander Bolton - 03/15/11 06:00 AM ET

Social Security reform is splitting President Obama’s economic and political advisers.

Obama is being pulled in opposite directions by those whose priorities are fiscal and those whose No. 1 concern is electoral.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, National Economic Council Director Gene Sperling and Sperling’s deputy, Jason Furman — leading figures in the president’s economic team — are pressing Obama to cut Social Security benefits if necessary, say sources familiar with their positions.

But Obama’s political team, led by David Axelrod, David Plouffe and Jim Messina, are urging the president to understand that backing benefit cuts could prove disastrous to his 2012 reelection hopes, sources say.

The political team is winning the argument so far, but internal debate rages at the White House as Republicans in Congress insist sweeping efforts to restore government finances must include Social Security reform.

THE REST: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/149489-social-security-reform-splits-the-white-house

As a follow up, Dean Baker of CEPR has a good critique of the bias in this article: http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/the-hill-has-a-problem-with-theory-and-practice

[still_one]

1. If Obama backs social security benefit cuts, I will not vote for him in 2012. I already am upset

that he backloaded HCR for 2014, and in these economic for those social security recipients on a very limited income, this would hurt.

Why does it seem those who are in most need are the ones asked to make the most sacrifice, while those in the least need, are not?

[WinkyDink]

16. This is truly my final straw, line-in-the-sand as well. TRULY.

[Poboy]

19. Mine as well, and armageddon for the Dem. party.

[still_one]

22. According to the article, his political team is telling him not to, so I hope he heeds their warning

"But Obama’s political team, led by David Axelrod, David Plouffe and Jim Messina, are urging the president to understand that backing benefit cuts could prove disastrous to his 2012 reelection hopes, sources say."

[jtown1123]

35. Yes. But what's to stop the economic team after the election? We still have to be vigilant,

[hifiguy]

65. Mine was the utter cave-in in agreeing to extend

Chimpoleon's welfare program for million/billionaires a/k/a "tax cuts."

That was the straw that broke this camel's back.

[truebrit71]

54. If he fucks with SS in any way at all his political career (as a Democrat) will be over..

..there is a reason why they call it the 'third rail'...

Never mind independents not voting for him, Democrats won't either...

[bobbolink]

81. Its already over. There isn't much after "President".

[lbrtbell]

2. And poor, helpless Obama will just have to cave in

Because, you know, the centrists who will vote for him in 2012 really want to see Social Security cut for their elders and themselves. :sarcasm:

[jtown1123]

3. The part that really bothered me in the article was how they wanted to "throw a bone" to the Repukes

on Social Security...really? Why on earth would you dismantle the Democrats greatest achievement by throwing Republicans a bone. Newsflash: they will turn it around and scream bloody murder that Democrats cut Social SEcurity (even though it's what they wanted all along).

[lbrtbell]

6. +1

I don't care how many lists of "accomplishments" Obama's apologists keep throwing at us...if he doesn't defend Social Security with every fiber of his being, he's toast.

But why does he have to drag the elderly and disabled down with him?

[bobbolink]

82. " But why does he have to drag the elderly and disabled down with him?"

Because, as you may have noticed, we don't have a whole lot of support.

You don't see us listed on most DU threads about priorities, do you?

Another example... the recent thread on writing letters about the Budget cuts--and thanks to those who did!--didn't get a whole lot of responses, did it?

300,000 letters to MSNBC about cutting Keith, yet poor and disabled and elderly people can't even generate ONE LOUSY THOUSAND.

So, stop wondering. It is all very clear.

[phiddle]

12. That's because the only thing left is...BONES.

All the skin and muscle has been wasted away by 30 years of starvation of the public enterprise.

[whathehell]

23. Yes, as if they haven't thrown them enough "bones" already -- It boggles the mind. n/t.

[Poboy]

34. 'Throw a bone'? SS cuts will be throwing the very heart (vital organ)

to them. Why would you want to even throw a bone to them? Seems the president is determined to make us all at the least, amputees.

[hatrack]

25. But first he'll have to "reach out" and "seek consensus" from the Becks and Norquists and Donahues

:eyes:

[jtown1123]

36. That shouldn't be a problem. Norquist loves to compromise....not

[defendandprotect]

67. The anti-Social Security propaganda is still a mile high -- and we have to stay after it --

they've been piling it up for three decades now with lots of help --

WSJ had a 10 year campaign "SS as a Ponzi scheme" -- !!

Obama's "Cat Food Commission" with the notorious Alan Simpson was certainly more than

a "cave in" -- it was more like a "give in" --

Complete going over to their side!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[Bandit]

4. I do believe the hand writing is already on the wall. Obama plans on cutting SS

"Who else you going to vote for?" "Fucking retards".

[jtown1123]

5. The article states the political aspect is winning now but there is still serious economic pressure

to cut benefits. I think we need to make it abundantly clear that there will be riots in the streets if SS is cut. Think the Wisconisn protests were bad?

[Gaedel]

58. Only Nixon could go to China nt

[dkf]

7. They aren't talking about cutting SS for people getting it now.

They are talking about the future when people may not want our bonds.

Japan is the second largest holder of US treasuries. I imagine they won't be buying many in the near future and may have to sell some to fund this disaster. The near term flight to safety will prop treasuries up for now but when it calms down we may find demand is not where it used to be.

[jtown1123]

8. OK, so they are talking about cutting SS for people like me...FALSE CHOICES

You just called SS a disaster so I can't take anything you say seriously. If you want to read about bonds you might want to read CEPR and Dean Baker. They know what they are talking about and say there is no problem now nor in the future.

[defendandprotect]

60. "I got mine" attitude is shocking -- don't worry about anyone else, or justice -- !!!

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[FLAprogressive]

9. Oh gee, that makes me feel SO much better.

:eyes:

[jtown1123]

10. That's the conservative response..."don't worry seniors, you're OK, Kids, you're screwed"

[FLAprogressive]

11. exactly

[dkf]

24. Because that is when our overspending and our hefty increases in health care costs will

come to roost. We have an aging population. There won't be enough workers to support all the retirees and this is a purely demographic problem. My grandparents had 14 kids between the two sides, my parents 3 and I have none. Multiply this scenario and you don't have enough wage earners to support all the non workers.

Personally I know I need to save a lot of money or I will be screwed. Will I count on this country to feed, clothe, medicate and shelter me because I reach a particular age? I'd rather not depend on it.

[jtown1123]

26. It's fine to be self sufficient, but your arguments about an aging population

don't necessarily hold water. Those stats about workers supporting SS recipients are misleading.

Many actuaries believe there will be no funding shortfall in SS at all. Bruce Webb, SS expert, wrote an article recently how SS Trust Fund always manages to stay solvent. http://www.angrybearblog.com/2010/09/why-nothing-is-still-2nd-best-plan-for.html

You can read a lot of his stuff, but most of what you hear about SS on the news and from "economists" is untrue or comes from a very negative and biased place.

[Enthusiast]

42. We agreed to increased FICA

contributions clear back in the 1980s to offset the influx of boomer seniors.

[suffragette]

46. So we should enact single payer health care to provide

us with quality health care at a lower cost as our countries have done.

But then, the CEO's of the insurance companies would have to live off the millions they've already grabbed by positioning themselves as middle-men in the process and they won't be able to skim more millions from us.

[defendandprotect]

62. Exactly ... Bush and Obama guaranteed huge profits for Big Pharma and private H/C --

at the expense of taxpayers -- !!

MEDICARE FOR ALL!!

[suffragette]

73. Yep, Medicare part E would be the most direct solution

to those issues (and a whole lot more).

[Enthusiast]

79. It would. Then we could further lower the costs

by going after medicare pirates like new governor Scott of Florida. Texas medicare costs are twice as high per patient as Minnesota. Sounds like medicare fraud is a way of life in "conservative" states.

[defendandprotect]

61. Nonsense -- SURPLUSSES accumulated in T-Notes would make SS solvent into infinity -- !!!

Even without them, Social Security is solvent thru the next decades --

and even after that 2050/70 -- still without the T-money -- it could pay 80% of benefits!!




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[eridani]

76. By that stupid braindead logic, we are all starving to death because there are so few farmers

--as a percentage of the population compared to 70 years ago. Non-farm productivity is up by a factor or 4 since 1947, which (having now run out of financial bubbles) has led us to permanently high un- and underemployment. Fewer workers will therefore be needed to support retirees--and they would probably prefer that older people wanting out of the job market just retire and leave their jobs to younger people.

[eridani]

74. Our children and grandchildren will need it MORE than we do

Defined benefits pensions have gone the way of the dodo bird, and people starting their careers during a serious downturn have permanently suppressed lifetime incomes.

[Enthusiast]

41. Even talking about it

has already cost Obama public approval.

And FICA cuts were already signed by Obama. This is why so many of us mistrust Obama on the social security issue. And believe me this will have devastating results at the polls in 2012.

You are such a dyed in the wool Obama supporter, do you want him to lose in 2012? If he supports cuts in SS he will lose. It doesn't matter if the cuts only apply to future retirees.

On this one issue working class Americans are truly united.

[WinkyDink]

13. "Fiscal vs. Electoral" = Nobody is actually considering the HUMAN ELEMENT.

It's "For the Budget vs. For Obama's Re-Election". Now, should the President be SELF-CENTERED?!

See how that works?

[mmonk]

14. It's called ideology. When Obama assembled his economic team

as president, I knew then they weren't on my side. That was quite a while ago and probably why I've got an anti-Obama reputation here as I have been frustrated ever since. But even then, I wasn't expecting the tax cut extensions and the deficit commission.

[jtown1123]

17. His economic team scares the bejeesus out of me. Wall St. types always want to cut SS

and now they are letting this poison into the policy debate when it is completely unnecessary. All these "cuts" would lead to inevitable privatization, no matter what they will claim otherwise.

[mmonk]

28. Yes. It is getting harder for them to hide.

[defendandprotect]

66. Obama has goiverned for Wall Street -- hugely destructive of democracy and public schools...

public education, teachers, unions --

Still many budget questions ahead, including how he's set up Social Security attacks

with his "Cat Food Commision" --

Also still ahead, his guarantees for new generations of nuclear power plants --

And behind us, Obama's trampling of MEDICARE FOR ALL in his back room deals with Big Pharma

and the PRIVATE H/C Industry -- !!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[hifiguy]

69. Seeing Geithner and all of Goldman alums told me that the fix was in

from the beginning, and instead of a new FDR, we would be getting warmed over corporatist/DLC/bankster bullshit with a smiley face on it.

[Autumn]

15. These people do not get it

"The president and his team are unified in the belief that the only way to reach consensus on strengthening Social Security for future generations is for Democrats and Republicans work together in a bipartisan way, and any suggestion to the contrary is simply false."

"Some political people would like to see the president out there defending the program and making the case that it has nothing to do with the deficit.”
That might just be the right thing to do.

Me? I think making the case it has nothing to do with the deficit is best. Fuck throwing the pukes a bone. They have already been given the choice cuts of meat.

[jtown1123]

18. Repukes and Dems can never agree on SS. If we compromise with them, there will be cuts.

[defendandprotect]

63. Notice we are not only bucking the GOP here on SS....we're also bucking Obama who put

Alan Simpson and "the Cat Food Commission" in place!!

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[amandabeech]

20. None of these guys is likely to ever need their full Social Security benefit,

nor do they have friends or relatives who will need them.

On the other hand, if Social Secuity taxes increase, they will pay more.

You all realize that the people who need Social Security the most are women, and there are no women mentioned as being prominent in this debate.

Why would FDR think of Sperling, Geithner and Furman?

Would he say that he was proud to be their enemy?

[whathehell]

27. You are correct, but as you well know,

Obama is no FDR..Hell, Obama's not as liberal as Republican Dwight Eisenhower.:eyes:

[jtown1123]

30. You're right. Eisenhower has some AWESOME quotes about SS

[whathehell]

49. Yes, he does and

You know how far to the right this country has

gone when, with a Dem in the White House, we look

back fondly on a Republican!

[amandabeech]

33. I'm still looking for an FDR, but I'd settle for a new Ike to like! n/t

[whathehell]

48. Me too....It's quite amazing that a Democrat

should compare POORLY with a Republican!:eyes:

[amandabeech]

77. It is an unfortunate sign of the times. n/t

[jtown1123]

31. I FDR would be proud to be their enemy. Especially since they claim they are Democrats. Shameful.

[Angry Dragon]

21. Why do I get the feeling that the people that are in DC

are just flaming idiots??

SS has nothing to do with the deficit

[jtown1123]

29. Inside the Beltway thinking on SS is very skewed (I KNOW)

They have no idea how much people rely on it or how it doesn't add to the deficit. In D.C., you are "very serious" if you want to cut SS and that should depress the hell out of everyone. However, I am optimistic political pressure and a presidential election could sway inside the beltway types to understand that the people will riot if they cut it.

[bullwinkle428]

32. Geithner and Sperling...SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

:eyes:

[xchrom]

37. these guys didn't HAVE to be hired.

'Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, National Economic Council Director Gene Sperling and Sperling’s deputy, Jason Furman — leading figures in the president’s economic team — are pressing Obama to cut Social Security benefits if necessary, say sources familiar with their positions.'


nobody forced obama to cotinue with neoliberal economic think.
there are other competent folks who have an entirely different way of seeing wall street, budgets, national economy -- to what ever extent -- obama agrees with these folks.

[blindpig]

38. A little drama for the masses.

While the economic will generally outweigh the political I don't think I've ever seen an administration so willing to sacrifice political consideration. They don't seem to care, the agenda will be realized and damn the public.

The same can be said for the Republicans, their 'Wisconsin gambit' is proving to be a political disaster, undermining decades of successful propaganda by laying naked the capitalist agenda and what it really means for workers.

Capital is in severe crisis and is going crazy, trashing it's facades and illusions in a bid for a couple more good quarters. The parties are just collateral damage, but the Money party will still rule.

And in the meantime no one speaks for the people, yet.

[Enthusiast]

39. Obama could bolster his re-election

chances by coming out as soon as possible and telling the electorate that social security cuts, and any increase in the retirement age, are "Off the table."

But as I now understand it polls show Americans actually trust Republicans to better protect their social security more than they do Democrats. That is absurd. But this is what "wishy-washy" will get you.

[jtown1123]

44. You are absolutely correct. If he comes out and uses strong language (none of this "slash" nonsense)

he will gain massive support. My thoughts? He wants to use SS as a bargaining chip to get tax increases so he'll never come out strong against means testing, raising the retirement age or other "tweaks" but not obvious "slashes." If you look at his and his staff's language on SS, they are incredibly careful to use the word "slash." They do this because it will cover their ass if they ever support "tweaks." Scary stuff.

[ProSense]

40. Dean Baker nails it

Baker:

<...>

Readers can assume, based on these comments, that the Hill does not like Social Security and wants to see benefits cut. Usually this sort of editorializing is left to the opinion pages but apparently the Hill could not contain its animosity towards the program.

The Hill ariticle reads like it's determined to give the impression that a Presidential decision not to cut Social Security will be a political one, not economic. The article reeks of RW spin:

But Obama’s political team, led by David Axelrod, David Plouffe and Jim Messina, are urging the president to understand that backing benefit cuts could prove disastrous to his 2012 reelection hopes, sources say.

“The political people would prefer not to be accused of being the party that cuts Social Security in those ways. Some political people would like to see the president out there defending the program and making the case that it has nothing to do with the deficit.”

A second Democratic source, who has pushed to reform Social Security by increasing the flow of revenues to the trust fund and reducing benefits, said, “Geithner’s been the most forward-leaning.”

Geithner told the Ways and Means Committee in February that Congress must shore up the trust fund. He said the president would work with lawmakers but would not accept drastic cuts.

Utter bullshit.

Reuters (February):

(Reuters) - Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said on Tuesday the United States needs to shore up its massive pension program without slashing Social Security benefits or subjecting them to the "whims" of the stock market.

<...>

Jack Lew on Social Security

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

68. What the hell are you talking about? Dean Baker is the DLC now?

Ludicrous.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LiberalAndProud]

45. Geithner, Sperling, Furman

Keep those names in mind. It is time for Obama to seek some advice from outside the inside circle. Their economic policies are the definition of FAIL.

[Better Believe It]

47. So this is their big concern? "backing benefit cuts could prove disastrous to his 2012 reelection"

What about the impact on the elderly?

That should be by far the main concern.

[defendandprotect]

55. Exactly ... but we also have to notice that we don't know the BENEFITS that would accrue

to anyone who does knock out Social Security and Medicare for the elites!!

but I'm sure there would be a few!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[jtown1123]

56. You hit the nail on the head. What's to stop them after the election?

[ProSense]

72. "What's to stop them after the election?"

A Democratic majority in Congress. Vote.

[ProSense]

71. Do you think the President is going to cut it?

What's the main concern: That there will be no cut, ensuring a win, or that there will be a cut, guaranteeing a loss?

Sounds like trying to have it both ways: See, he wants to cut it, but he isn't going to cut it because he's callous and wants to win.


Oh brother.

[RedCloud]

50. Note to Obama: Check out Arlo Guthrie's lyrics inside.

You are the one we voted for for,
so you must take the blame,
for handing out authority
to men who are insane.

[defendandprotect]

57. Think Obama is busy listening to his pal former Sen. Alan Simpson -- !!

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[TheKentuckian]

51. Obama's economic team should not only be fired but pushed to the sea at the points of pitchforks.

[defendandprotect]

53. And Obama is an innocent in all of this? RECALL -- !!

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[TheKentuckian]

80. Oh hell no. He hired them and wipes their asses and dangles off their assholes

[defendandprotect]

52. Some don't like betrayal of the American public? RW Elites are going for broke -- and

the masks are coming off -- as Michael Moore is pointing out has happened in Michigan!

Be sure you know who you are electing next time -- party affiliation is no guarantee of

a true democratic candidate!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew this, why didn't you tell us -- ?

If you didn't know this -- pass it on -- !!



:)

[old mark]

64. K&R- When they leak shit like this, they are testing the waters-It is a done deal, IMO,

and they want to see what the reaction will be.

I HOPE everyone here knows that Social Security has NO problems for the next 30 some years and does NOT negatively impact the defecit at all...ANY future peoblems with SS would be fixed by taxing the rich and raising or eliminating the limit in the amount of money that is liable to SS deductions and contributions. It's that simple-the rest is political lies.

mark

[grahamhgreen]

70. How can they be so callous and vicious?

[Modern_Matthew]

75. If they cut SS, then they better damn well cut the SS tax as well. nt

[JHB]

78. So the part of his team that argues for cuts...

...are the people who advocated the policies that set up the Great Recession in the first place, not to mention RW and corporate media consolidation that then attacks Democrats.


In other words, the people who shouldn't be on his team in the first place.

[Hubert Flottz]

83. The first thing he needs to do is

FIRE Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's Wall Street Loving Ass!

That motherF***ER is another Alan Greedspin...

[bobbolink]

84. Its now obvious that Social Security is going to be gutted.

The RW is determined, and don't have a party that stands up to them.

I'm resigned.