I've gone from "Deep sense of worry" to "Genuinely frightened."

[WilliamPitt]

Feeling totally helpless in the face of what's happening, because I am. So are you, and all of us here, unless you're a firefighter at the reactor, in which case you're too damn busy and scared to post here.

Every day this thing has gotten worse, and now there's a new fire. The talking head on CNN reported the outside wall where the new fire is located is on fire.

I don't know, and I'm sorry to sound so alarmist.

But I'm really getting jumpy about how this is going to play out, and I really hope I'm freaked for no reason.

Going to direct all the good thoughts I can summon and send them out to everyone involved in getting this thing under control, and everyone who is within the radius of potential danger.

Best I can do. Best we can do.

:(

[JitterbugPerfume]

1. and Thom Hartmann said

they are storing nuclear waste in large pools cooled by water higher than the core , and when the water evaporates we are left with the worlds biggest dirty bomb . These large pools of radioactive waste are covered with some kind of metal to keep the rain , snow etc out. The water is boiling away as we speak.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. Excellent article on the spent fuel rod pools problem:

Very chilling but excellent

http://climateprogress.org/2011/03/14/third-explosion-reported-3-cooling-systems-failing-3-meltdowns-cant-be-ruled-out-spent-fuel-risk-also-great/#more-44532

[fascisthunter]

2. I Remember Having to Read Hiroshima by John Hersey

this catastrophe is bringing it all back.

[2Design]

48. the images bring back the destruction and murder of so many

people and wondering how did they recover from that
and now this

at least Diane Sawyer went there in pictures tonight but she didn't finish
just left it hanging

[jus_the_facts]

3. Thanks Will...

:pals:

[RandomThoughts]

4. The best for those in hardship.

Someone posted an Irish Blessing.

Tabhair dom an rud céanna mar atá ag an fhear ar an t-úrlar!
Give me the same as the man on the floor!


I think there is something in that. A concept of shared hardship, and empathy.


Walk Through The Fire - Buffy the Vampire Slayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hxafBhGZ-Q


"I guess it is all the same",What does that mean to me? Any situation not acceptable is the same as any other. It can't get worse, it can only get better.

And I am due beer and travel money and many experiences.

[Generic Other]

5. I feel a horrible sense of dread

I am trying to remain calm though.

[BlueJazz]

6. The people who are still trying to contain the mess are some of the bravest people on the Planet.

They know (probably better than 99% of the populace) that they are the walking dead.
They are giving up their lives for their countrymen

[GCP]

34. Same thing happened at Chernobyl

A team of emergency personnel worked to seal off the contaminated core. They knew it was a suicide mission but they doubtless saved thousands of lives by doing it.

[Lastactiongyro]

38. Cherobyl 500,000 men ended up fighting it.

[RebelOne]

40. Lawrence O'Donnell is just saying the same

words on his show right now.

[luvspeas]

7. I feel the same way...

I've been trying for concentrate on other things and just not think about it so much because I can't change it. I feel like crying every time I think about what has happened and what might happen, and I cannot imagine what it would be like to be in Japan right now. I am getting tired of hearing about the resiliency of the Japanese people. I am beginning to feel like that's just another way of saying, "they can handle it."

Also, we have a trip to Hawaii planned in May, and I'm concerned about the possible radiation. I also feel guilty for making this about me in some way. If Sarah Palin were saying this, I'd make fun of her. But thanks for saying how you feel. It makes me feel OK to get it off my chest. Sometimes I feel like nobody else is paying attention.

[mahina]

23. We're ok over here by the way.

Anyway, you should do what you feel is safe for you.

[luvspeas]

30. I'm glad and I hope you will continue to be fine...

Mohalo! hang in there. I don't pray, but I am sending you all my most positive energy.

[flamingdem]

8. Imo, they are seeking people willing to die in order to get hoses on No. 4

Just a guess but so far this seems to be the issue. No. 4 is too radioactive to get near enough for hoses... my worry is that they'll run out of time and volunteers and just let it rip.

They must be so exhausted, so hard to think at that stage.

[mahina]

10. You're a better man than I

because I'm a woman :)

but I've been pretty scared the whole time.

I still know the people will be ok in the end, mostly, but it's hard to see a way through at the present.

Anybody worrying about our health effects over here I want to shoosh, we are so fortunate to be so far away. So many have no choice.

tears

deep breathing

remember all the nightmares that have come before, and the sun rises the next day, month, year

I was planning a trip to Japan, will be putting that off for a while but other than that and fundraising, it's still one foot in front of the other.

Hugs Will Pitt, my truthout hero

[Cali_Democrat]

11. Relax

I think everything will turn out to be fine.

Hopefully.

[hlthe2b]

12. I still find it unimaginable that after a record earthquake & tsunami,

we might be looking at loosing a significant portion of Japan-- a la Chernobyl-- for all time. How is this even possible? How could so much disaster befall a single people, a single country at one time? Unfathomable and yes, very frightening.

I don't do well with "helpless." :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

13. It's uncharted area...

It's natural to fear the unknown. I'm right there with you, Will.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Direct effects won't reach outside of a radius of a few miles

Not to minimize the tragedy, but we're pretty safe in the US. Can't have a nuclear explosion, just (!) a "dirty bomb" that spews radioactive dust a few miles at most. I think Chernobyl was about a worst-case scenario, and in that case, the only effect seen by people who weren't at the site itself was an increase in thyroid cancers downwind, due to radioactive iodine. Some radioactive iodine might spread a few hundred miles as it did in Chernobyl, but the half-life is a few days - after a couple of months it's harmless, and until then don't eat vegetation from the affected areas, or anything that feeds on that vegetation. People closer to the site can take non-radioactive iodine to keep their thyroids from sucking up the radioactive stuff.

While the serious radioactive dust can only spread a few miles, it has a very long half-life, so that area will be uninhabitable for many lifetimes unless there's a serious cleanup.

Again, not to minimize this catastrophe, or to minimize the potential danger of nuclear power, but people outside of Japan are not in danger.

[WilliamPitt]

17. I live in Boston

Pretty sure my ass is covered.

Wasn't my point.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Me too. Well, Newton, actually.

Just want to do my part as a nerd to reassure people that all of our asses are covered.

I'm more worried about peripheral economic issues - the world economy seems to be held together by chewing gum and duct tape these days, and something like this could end up having huge financial implication when some derivatives explode because they were betting against something like this happening - that could end up killing a lot of people when we divert money from the impoverished to save more bankers.

[WilliamPitt]

31. Heh.

I'm a graduate of Newton North.

[madmax]

61. Manny G and Will Pitt

Imagine the posts from those two!

Of course after the preliminary - did you know so and so, yeah, I drank there, too.

:rofl: :popcorn:

[diane in sf]

24. there were thousands of excess cancers after Chernobyl and they are still continuing.

They occurred all over Europe, so I wouldn't call that limited to a small area. The slowness of the deaths only makes it somewhat less worse.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Only (!) childhood thyroid cancers, I'm pretty sure

Preventable by not eating vegetation or things derived from vegetation (e.g., milk) in the affected area for two months.

While thyroid cancers are awful, they're rarely fatal.

[northernlights]

43. it's not just radioactive iodine and it spread 1,000 miles.

There is also radioactive cesium with a half life of a couple months. And at some of the plants there is plutonium.

Chernobyl's impact spread about 1,000 miles, not just a few hundred. It wasn't just "thyroid cancers downwind." It impacted livestock and agriculture. In Scotland, herds of sheep that were at pasture were blinded. And the impact on livestock and agriculture in affected regions in the UK lasts *to this day*. Also laplanders -- impacted their reindeer and their diets.

And Chernobyl was a single reactor. In Japan there are 7 reactors with waste pools in very close proximity. If one goes, it's entirely possible they all will.

For people in mainland US to get all freaked at this point is self-centered, imho. But depending on which way the winds blow, there is potential for massive suffering and loss.

[kristopher]

55. "Harmless after a few days", huh? Actually you are minimizing the danger.

First off, "a few miles" is pure playing-it-down bullpuckey.

Second, I guess if you are Filipino, Korean, Russian, or Chinese, you don't count?


Here is what Chernobyl did. Note that in the first paragraph the authors indict international organizations under the control of the nuclear industry for obstructing legitimate and properly conducted research into the effects of the incident.
Perhaps you didn't know, but *now* you do.

Chapter II. Consequences of the Chernobyl Catastrophe for Public Health
Alexey B. Nesterenko1, Vassily B. Nesterenko1,†, Alexey V. Yablokov2
Article first published online: 30 NOV 2009 DOI: 10.1111/j.1749-6632.2009.04822.x © 2009 New York Academy of Sciences
Issue
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences
Volume 1181, Chernobyl Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment pages 31–220, November 2009


Abstract
Jump to..Keywords: Chernobyl; secrecy; irradiation; health statistics
Problems complicating a full assessment of the effects from Chernobyl included official secrecy and falsification of medical records by the USSR for the first 3.5 years after the catastrophe and the lack of reliable medical statistics in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. Official data concerning the thousands of cleanup workers (Chernobyl liquidators) who worked to control the emissions are especially difficult to reconstruct. Using criteria demanded by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the World Health Organization (WHO), and the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) resulted in marked underestimates of the number of fatalities and the extent and degree of sickness among those exposed to radioactive fallout from Chernobyl. Data on exposures were absent or grossly inadequate, while mounting indications of adverse effects became more and more apparent. Using objective information collected by scientists in the affected areas—comparisons of morbidity and mortality in territories characterized by identical physiography, demography, and economy, which differed only in the levels and spectra of radioactive contamination—revealed significant abnormalities associated with irradiation, unrelated to age or sex (e.g., stable chromosomal aberrations), as well as other genetic and nongenetic pathologies.

...

This section describes the spectrum and the scale of the nonmalignant diseases that have been found among exposed populations. Adverse effects as a result of Chernobyl irradiation have been found in every group that has been studied. Brain damage has been found in individuals directly exposed—liquidators and those living in the contaminated territories, as well as in their offspring. Premature cataracts; tooth and mouth abnormalities; and blood, lymphatic, heart, lung, gastrointestinal, urologic, bone, and skin diseases afflict and impair people, young and old alike. Endocrine dysfunction, particularly thyroid disease, is far more common than might be expected, with some 1,000 cases of thyroid dysfunction for every case of thyroid cancer, a marked increase after the catastrophe. There are genetic damage and birth defects especially in children of liquidators and in children born in areas with high levels of radioisotope contamination. Immunological abnormalities and increases in viral, bacterial, and parasitic diseases are rife among individuals in the heavily contaminated areas. For more than 20 years, overall morbidity has remained high in those exposed to the irradiation released by Chernobyl. One cannot give credence to the explanation that these numbers are due solely to socioeconomic factors. The negative health consequences of the catastrophe are amply documented in this chapter and concern millions of people.

The most recent forecast by international agencies predicted there would be between 9,000 and 28,000 fatal cancers between 1986 and 2056, obviously underestimating the risk factors and the collective doses. On the basis of I-131 and Cs-137 radioisotope doses to which populations were exposed and a comparison of cancer mortality in the heavily and the less contaminated territories and pre- and post-Chernobyl cancer levels, a more realistic figure is 212,000 to 245,000 deaths in Europe and 19,000 in the rest of the world. High levels of Te-132, Ru-103, Ru-106, and Cs-134 persisted months after the Chernobyl catastrophe and the continuing radiation from Cs-137, Sr-90, Pu, and Am will generate new neoplasms for hundreds of years.

A detailed study reveals that 3.8–4.0% of all deaths in the contaminated territories of Ukraine and Russia from 1990 to 2004 were caused by the Chernobyl catastrophe. The lack of evidence of increased mortality in other affected countries is not proof of the absence of effects from the radioactive fallout. Since 1990, mortality among liquidators has exceeded the mortality rate in corresponding population groups. From 112,000 to 125,000 liquidators died before 2005—that is, some 15% of the 830,000 members of the Chernobyl cleanup teams. The calculations suggest that the Chernobyl catastrophe has already killed several hundred thousand human beings in a population of several hundred million that was unfortunate enough to live in territories affected by the fallout. The number of Chernobyl victims will continue to grow over many future generations.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Did I write "harmless in a few days"?

Really?

As to the study, I haven't seen that before - it looks to be projections based on a study rather than epidemiological data, but I'll check it out, thanks.

[Gregorian]

15. Anger is a gift?

It's funny that before I had opened this thread, I was thinking about how in 1974, on my way home from college, I told my mom I was really worried about nuclear issues. Now it's almost forty years of screaming about how frustrated I am at seeing the use of energy in this country. It's like a right. Fly here, drive there, subdivide land and build houses for profit, destroy whatever in order to make a buck. After a few years I went from frustrated to furious. And I've been furious ever since. I actually start to come down when disasters happen, because maybe just maybe people will begin to see the recklessness in our names. And I have the background to base my concerns on. People see this as negativity, or something pathetic. No, it's seeing the truth clearly, when everyone else isn't. I've struggled to find out what people do who know. Write a book, see a therapist, drink, think about something else. But it just keeps confronting me. I am energy aware, even if I did get a C in thermodynamics.

So when I saw your thread, I immediately thought of anger. Why not anger? And I saw your sig line. I'd love to know what you mean by it. Because my anger feels like a burden, not a gift.

[WilliamPitt]

19. It's a gift when it motivates

and was my sig line for several of the early GW Bush years.

Anger helped then. It can help now.

[druidity33]

58. always thought you were a Rage fan...

and hence the sigline.


for those who don't know them, i'm talking about Rage Against the Machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_Against_the_Machine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqcM5lVoteQ

"Freedom"

Solo, I'm a soloist on a solo list
All live, never on a floppy disk
Inka, inka, bottle of ink
Paintings of rebellion
Drawn up by the thoughts I think

It's set uplike a deck of cards
They're sending us to early graves
For all the diamonds
They'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades
With poetry I paint the pictures that hit
More than the murals that fit
Don't turn away
Get in front of it

Chorus:
Brotha did ya frget my name
Did ya lose it on the wall
Playin' tic-tac-toe

Yo, check the diagonal
Three brothers gone
Come on
Doesn't that make it three in a row
Anger is a gift

Chorus

Yo, check the diagonal
Three million gone
Come on
'Cause ya know they're counting backwards to zero

Environment
The environment exceeding on the level
Of our unconsciousness
For example
What does the billboard say
Come and play, come and play
Forget about the movement
Anger is a gift

Freedom, freedom, yea right

[WilliamPitt]

59. Miss that band a lot.

:toast:

[druidity33]

62. maybe a new album?

from the WIki:

"2011-present: Possible New Album

During an interview with the Chilean newspaper La Tercera in October 2010, Rage frontman Zack de la Rocha allegedly confirmed that a new album is in the works, with a possibility of a 2011 release. De la Rocha is reported as saying, “We are all bigger and more mature and we do not fall into the problems we faced 10 or 15 years ago. This is different and we project a lot: we are working on a new album due out next year, perhaps summer for the northern hemisphere." Due to the obscure nature of the interview, the lack of confirmation from any other members of the band, and the lack of any news update on the band's official website, this alleged album is still technically considered a rumor."



:)

:shrug:

[tex-wyo-dem]

46. +1000 to Gregorian

You echo my feelings. I've felt this way for many years now.

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Listening to the Japan Gov't "helpful advice" is what scares me.

I have been watching Japan tv (http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html)

Via tv, this is what the people in the area of the reactors have told:

"Stay in your houses and keep all outside air out"

( how are you supposed to breath in an air proof house????)

"If it rains, purchase big plastic rain coats or tarps to cover yourself with,but you really shouldn't be in the rain"

they are saying this to people, over tv, who may not even have power, who may not have houses, who may not have ways to get to stores that may not have anything in them, to buy tarps, and if they do, how do they get from their houses to the stores in the rain they are supposed to stay out of ????

They have expanded the no fly zone around the reactors to 30 KM, yet are saying they may need helicopters to help contain the radiation.

It is now 8 am Wed. in Japan.
50°F / 10°C
Feels like 46°F / 10°C
Wind: ESE at 9 mph / 14 km/h
Humidity: 82%

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. My worry and fears right now -

are huge. The plant workers are waging the battle of their lives and all we can do is pray/send vibes/think good thoughts that they will prevail. It is hard to wrap ones head around just what the Japanese people continue to face, but they are a STRONG people who will get through this.

:hug:

[mahina]

25. +1000

shikata ganai desu, ne? Gambatte.

[Marr]

20. Calm down.

Unless you can direct your fear into some kind of super-powerful forcefield you can project to Japan, I don't see what's gained from it. Of course, I also don't see the point in 'directing good thoughts' at things, so maybe I'm just out of the loop.

[nevergiveup]

21. I am holding at the "deep sense of worry" level

because if I let myself slip into the "genuinely frightened" level I will become worthless and incapable of sending good thoughts and good karma to those who have their lives on the line.

[Whisp]

26. I wake up in the middle of the night and it all floods in

and my stomach and muscles tighten up.
and I imagine what it is like for so many people there right now - the firefighters, the mothers separated from their babies, the old and the sick the pets that are suffering.

but I can't imagine it well enough as I have never been close to anything this horrible.

There are spots of time during the day where I don't think about it - I play with my dog or cook something. I feel a bit cowardly or something doing that, pretending all is okay when it is not.

[Chris_Texas]

27. Chillax my friend. You will be fine. Seriously.

[calimary]

28. I feel a sense of futility and resignation most of the time. I mean, what the hell could we do?

I'm far more angry and fearful of what the bad guys in this country are turning our country into. That's kinda tempering any concerns I have about the nuclear disaster. Pissed, too, that this drowned out further coverage of Wisconsin - which, to me, is just as terrifying. Hey, whaddo I know? Husband's a wonky type - science nerd. Everything they're saying on TV now, I heard from him two-three days ago.

[mod mom]

32. I remember being freaked after watching too much coverage on 9/11.

Being glued to the news as many of us news junkies do, isn't always the healthiest response. Just saying...get a dog (if you don't already have one ) & take long walks with them. :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

35. I've barely watched any of it.

Bits and pieces over the weekend, practically nothing yesterday. I happened to tune in today just as this new fire story was being reported.

I did the total saturation thing after 9/11, so I know exactly what you're talking about. This time I made a point to take it in small bites.

[Control-Z]

33. I feel the same.

It is weighing hard and heavy on my mind. And I'm angry. Every time someone tells me how safe nuclear power is - how the same could never happen here in California - how there have actually been no lives lost in Japan because of it - how airplanes are more dangerous - or any other ridiculous, transparent, argument they attempt - I want to SCREAM.

How stupid do they think we are? I've understood the dangers of nuclear power since I first learned about it when I was something like 7 years old. The catastrophic consequences of mother nature's wrath, or human error, were not lost on me even then. Yet, they still persist in trying to convince us we are safe with what is essentially a bomb on the corner.

How many more disasters must we live through before our leaders stop gambling with our lives? How many more before our food is contaminated and there are no safe places to run? And how arrogant it is of Americans to believe that somehow we're immune to the conditions that would put us into crisis like Japan?

It is heart wrenching to acknowledge the full depth of devastation and suffering happening in Japan. I feel helpless, and to be quite honest, a little hopeless. I don't want to say that. I don't want to think that. It is just so damned awful. Those poor people - with the losses they've already endured and the fear of worse things yet to come.

Like you, I am sending all my good thoughts. That's all I have to give.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

36. Certainly a reason to feel bad... but not too much to be concerned about unless you live in Japan.

Remember, we used to detonate nuclear weapons and do tests ALL THE TIME.
In the Pacific, in western America... we even detonated 2 bombs over Japan.
Sure, they were bad and so they were prohibited from further testing.
But that's about the extent of it. America (and the rest of the world) survived.
You'll be fine. Trust me.

A few reactors melting down won't end the world, let alone significantly impact our lives.

[Control-Z]

37. I didn't get the impression that Will was worried

about his welfare. I believe his concerns were for those who are impacted directly. However, such a significant amount of suffering and loss of life will have an impact on most of us us. How could it not?

[WilliamPitt]

39. Jesus.

I'm amazed at how many people have told me not to worry so much because I'm not in Japan.

I'm worried about people in Japan.

I presume that's allowed.

[Junkdrawer]

41. Inhuman post of the year

Congratulations.

:woohoo:

[Zorra]

50. You forgot the drippy sarcasm tag thingy. Sometimes if sarcasm is

not real obvious, people can take something you say that sounds really awful the wrong way. It's in the Smilies lookup table, and it looks like this:
:sarcasm:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

42. I cannot imagine what it must be like for the people there

As I said someplace else here today, I admit it, it's bothering me. A horrific natural disaster and a nuclear disaster both at once is just too much to bear. Loved ones missing, or dead. Homes and all their personal belongings gone. Infrastructures destroyed. All of that is enough to break most people before you add a nuclear plant leaking radiation as it teeters on the precipice of a total meltdown.

[joshcryer]

44. Awwww!

And here I thought you were a big boy!

[LiberalEsto]

45. Breathing in pain, breathing out love

WhiteTara posted this in the astrology & spirituality forum.

Good link to more info on tonglen:
http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php

"The tonglen practice is a method for connecting with suffering —ours and that which is all around us— everywhere we go. It is a method for overcoming fear of suffering and for dissolving the tightness of our heart."

[Mimosa]

47. Me, too. And i've studied this issue for decades, not just recently. n/t

[2Design]

49. Just annoyed at the 'stupid' and how greed did nothing after the other

disasters. Why are we still driving gas cars? The technology was there in the 70's - GREED

the corps and politicians do what will make them the most money

Then a disaster happens and they worry

oil spill - the water is still contaminated and people fighting to be able to drill more - go figure - its the stupid that has invaded the minds of those who make decisions that affect all of us

now we have that same mentality putting more of these idiots in positions of power to make more bad decisions

Anyone of us knew the the Iraq war was wrong and a bad thing - they did it anyway and continue it now

the list goes on and on

I feel really really really feel bad for the Japanese people

I see some of the stupid remarks people have written in other places about their plight and it is sickening

The images remind me so much of the images after we atom bombed and murder so many innocent people in that country

I have no idea how they survived and came back from that

This is incredibly sad

It is frightening for all those people

It is frightening for the rest of us because we still have the stupid happening in our every day affairs. No healthcare and now more union busting and unwilling to stop the greed from all levels of the three branches of government.

They are failing us now. They have failed.

[Major Hogwash]

51. Don't worry until Sarah Palin starts tweeting about "how to fix it, 'n get r' done".

Seriously, if anyone can make Twitter entertaining, she can.

[Zorra]

60. She's an expert. Because she can see Japan from Alaska. nt

[dkf]

52. I'm freaking out.

One of my friends is 30 kms away from the plant. I asked if he was going to leave and he said they couldn't because there was no gas. He sounds so calm while I am the one panicking for him.

[Bladian]

53. Good god, this is troubling

I have family and a significant other in California (college in New York). Should I be warning them to pay attention to the news and LEAVE if necessary?

[JeffersonChick]

54. Sometimes I think, "Ahhh, so THIS is how 2012 happens"

[Divine Discontent]

56. praying for Japan's people. I hope it doesn't get worse... thanks for your op. n/t