Why recruiters should be banned from high schools...

[cynatnite]

A friend called me up earlier tonight and told me about the visit her son had with an Army recruiter. He basically guaranteed that he wouldn't be in combat and that he could get paid for playing basketball (He loves basketball a lot). He's a 16 year old kid who is very impressionable like the rest of his friends.

He came home talking about the money he'd make, playing basketball, traveling, and not having to worry about paying for college.

My husband and I are both vets. I had a positive experience in the military, but for him it was very negative and he doesn't miss it at all. He's been deployed to Panama and for the first gulf war. I told her that if her son is still impressed to come talk to us and we'd set him straight.

I support anyone's choice to join the military, but to lie in order to entice teenagers like this just pisses me off. They are fucking with their lives in order to make quotas. :grr:

[kas125]

1. Get that kid a copy of the dvd 'Before You Enlist" and do it

soon. Kids don't listen when we tell them, but if they see it on a video, they believe it.

[cynatnite]

3. The husband's cousin is a drill instructor in S.C....

He'll be here for a visit in a few months. :evilgrin:

[DeadEyeDyck]

16. where ? link?

[kas125]

31. I gave away the last copy I had a month or so ago, but it

looks like they've made an updated one anyway. They're given away free at many anti-war events, you can probably pick one up locally. Or - http://afscatlanta.blogspot.com/2011/02/updated-before-you-enlist-dvds-arrived.html

[HEyHEY]

2. It's unreal they can lie like that. It's a government agency.

[Mariana]

18. The enlistment contract allows them to lie like that.

It says, "The agreements in this section and attached annex (es) are all the promises made to me by the Government. ANYTHING ELSE ANYONE HAS PROMISED ME IS NOT VALID AND WILL NOT BE HONORED.

I didn't add the caps and boldface for effect. That's how it's printed on the contract form (DD form 4/1).

Obviously the "ANYONE" referred to in this statement is the recruiter. It's expected that the recruiter lied to the enlistee.

[Iwasthere]

4. I had the policy changed at my sons high school

My son came home and told me almost the exact same shit, but he also said that he scored really high on the recruiters physical tests and was excited(the PE teachers allowed the recruiters to give classes tests). I was furious and went to the principal, they now make the recruiters stay in the commons only.

[defendandprotect]

8. My son had phone calls from recruiters -- this was not recently -- and he was

talking to them evidently regularly -- somewhat annoyed but being polite --

before we found out!!

We told them not to call back or we'd call the police! At that time it worked --

probably now they could have you arrested for barring them from their prey!!

[cynatnite]

11. We didn't allow any recruiters to talk to our daughter or come by the house...

I told one guy that if she's interested, she'll call him. I could tell they were unhappy.

[defendandprotect]

13. They're very aggressive -- they're being pushed themselves ... some have committed suicide!

Young people aren't up to anything like this -- and why should they be?

It's really an attack on youth and their freedom -- their personal space --

and it's intended to be just that!!

:)

[Jmaxfie1]

5. I'm not really against recruiters, but I am against lying.

They should give an accurate description of the military. The Army doesn't pay people to play basketball, they pay them to defend the country and possibly die doing it.

[cynatnite]

9. It's not just the lying...it's also the machinations of the truth as well...

Both recruiters lied to me prior to my joining.

I understand the need to paint the military in the best possible light, but they should have enough integrity to at least be honest about life in the military.

I met a Marine Corps recruiter and he said he refuses to lie because he wants the recruits to want to be the best of the best. He paints the Marines as exceptional and above the rest. That's his enticement and he said it works. He doesn't have to lie.

[Jmaxfie1]

14. That's how it should be. n/t

[EFerrari]

10. I am against recruiters at school because kids expect

authority figures at school to be acting in a custodial role, to be trustworthy. The context is all wrong for them to encounter recruiters and interact with them critically.

[defendandprotect]

6. It's really criminal that Military has been premitted this invasion into private lives

of children in their schools --

and our Congress has done nothing about it!!

[Lithos]

7. we all know there are no guarantees in the military

It has a lot to offer if that is what you need or are expecting, but it also is a dangerous profession and one with some very severe expectations. Definitely not for everyone and it is a crime for recruiters to try and set some expectations that can't be delivered to people who are too young to understand this.

L-

[Ramulux]

12. There is no need for a military

There are no legitimate reasons for us to have a standing army, navy, or marines. There are no conflicts in the world today that require America to do anything in regards to armed combat.

The military is completely pointless in the modern world and exists only to suck away funding for education and social programs.

Anyone who doesn't feel like aiding in the murder of innocent civilians should probably stay out of the military.

[cynatnite]

15. I see a necessity for a military...just not the monsterous size that we've got...

We don't need one this size.

And the military is NOT about aiding in the murder of innocent civilians. I'm a vet, my husband is a vet, and so are most of my family members...some of whom were drafted during Vietnam. We didn't go around killing people.

Please don't bash those who were or are currently in the military.

[Ramulux]

17. What exactly do we need a military for?

Please explain what use the military has because I dont see it. I see no reason to pay people to be trained in the use of weapons for imaginary conflicts that aren't going to happen. There has not been a need for us to intervene militarily in any global conflict since WW2 and I see no event in the future that would force us to.

I'm not trying to be rude, I just literally cant come up with one reason why the Army or Navy should exist.

[cynatnite]

19. The military has been used for more than just waging war...

National disasters like Katrina for one. They've been deployed for forest fires as well. The husband and his unit were sent to national forests for fires more than once during his enlistment. We also have treaties with other countries that require our presence. The Koreas are a good example.

Military conflict is a fact of life and while a lot of us won't agree with it's usage, there is no changing that. We still have a strong dependence on foreign oil and that alone guarantees us gettng involved. Until we change things like this, how the world handles conflict, our delusion of needing an oversized military, and the United States' world view...the military we currently have will remain as it is.

[Ramulux]

22. You just proved my point

I ask you to come up with a reason why the "military" needs to exist and you give me an example of a natural disaster that had no need of people trained for armed combat. Katrina had no need of any sort of military personnel, they needed basic law enforcement officers, medical aid workers, and able bodied people to help with reconstruction.

I am not making an argument against law enforcement, I am making an argument against a "military" that exists solely to engage in combat around the world. The military does not exist to help with natural or man-made disasters, we have entire agencies devoted to that very purpose.

The purpose of our military is to engage in combat on an international scale in order to supposedly protect us from foreign threats. Thats its purpose, that's why it exists.

So, I ask again, give me a reason why the US military should exist and engage in combat around the world. Tell me exactly what threats exist in this world that need to be combated by our military.

[cynatnite]

24. We have the agencies, but not necessarily the manpower or the structural support in place...

The military has that and is capable of being deployed quickly. The national guard and reserves are a strong part of our military and they're used for national disasters all the time. The purpose of the military isn't just for fighting...it never has been. That's what it's mostly used for, but not the only reason.

As I said before in my earlier post, we do have commitments that we've made around the world such as the Koreas, Germany, and whatnot. We are still strongly dependent on foreign oil which is used for more than just putting gas in a car. Of course, a lot of people will disagree whether or not our military should be used as a way of protecting these interests.

[Sirveri]

20. We've had a Navy since the country was founded.

It's really quite important to have a navy, or at the very least a coast guard. I agree with you on the army thing, the only reason that was built up so high was to keep a state of instant readiness in order to fight the Soviets.

One of the first orders of congress was to commission new ships to protect our ships on the high seas. We probably don't need 12 nuclear powered long deck aircraft carriers however, although it does enable significant force projection.

[Ramulux]

23. Why do we need a Navy?

I wasn't arguing against the coast guard, I view them as an emergency prevention and response organization, considering they dont really engage in combat and mainly exist to help with domestic disasters.

But, why do we need a Navy, what sort of conflict or danger exists in this world that would warrant us needing to engage in Naval combat in any way? Why should the Navy exist and who exactly do we need to "project force" towards?

[Sirveri]

25. Basically to protect ships on the high seas from pirates and other stuff.

Ship flying the US flag gets waylayed by pirates USN go and get them. Americans get stranded somewhere and a civil war starts USN and USMC go get them. Also diplomacy, trade security, stuff like that. Walk softly and carry a big stick... That doesn't mean we actually have to use the stick, but if we don't even have one there are people and places out there that will basically walk all over us or otherwise decide to screw with us just because it's too their own benefit to do so.

[cynatnite]

27. We've got the military helping in Japan, too. The Navy is flying in relief supplies.n/t

[Ramulux]

29. So let me get this straight

You think the Navy and Air Force should exist because sometimes they dont do what they were created to do and instead act as an emergency relief organization?

I have a crazy idea, lets get rid of the Navy and create an agency devoted ENTIRELY to responding to natural disasters all around the world with humanitarian aid if that's what you are concerned about.

My point is that the Navy does not exist as a humanitarian aid organization, it exists to engage in combat with perceived threats to this country. The fact that it sometimes helps people in a disaster doesn't change its actual purpose which is to engage in combat.

[Ramulux]

28. Are you being serious?

Are you honestly telling me we need an entire branch of the military to deal with piracy?

I'm also not understanding what you are talking about when it comes to diplomacy and trade security, what do those things have to do with the military?

As for walking softly and carrying a big stick, who exactly would fuck with us if we did not have a massive military? No one that's who. There is no country on this planet with the desire to engage in combat with the United States of America. The argument you are making is also identical to the right-wing talking point that a massive military somehow makes us safer just by being there. No country is going to declare war on us regardless of the perceived size of our military might. Thats an absurd belief that I only hear being made by neo-cons.

[Sirveri]

32. That was the initial reason the USN was actually created.

So yes, piracy.

That quote goes back a very long way, but it's still relevant today. It allows us to have a say outside our own borders.

[Ramulux]

33. So we need an entire branch of armed forces to deal with...

organized crime in poor African and Asian countries? So you believe that America should police the world and fund an entire branch of the armed forces just to save the handful of American boats that get captured every year?

I'm sorry but I dont think America has the right or even the ability to combat organized crime on every corner of the globe. So I guess under your logic we should create an entire armed forces branch just to deal with the mafia in Italy or the Taliban in the middle east.

[cynatnite]

26. The Navy is used for support of other military branches for one thing...

It's also used for humanitarian operations as it's being used right now in Japan. The branches of the military all do more than just wage war.

[Ramulux]

30. What?

So, why dont we get rid of the Navy and use that money to create a full time international federally funded humanitarian agency designed to respond to disasters all over the world?

Why do we need to use a branch of the military (which does not exist for humanitarian purposes) to help in international relief efforts?

I just want to make sure you understand that the "armed forces" exist to engage in combat on an international level. They dont exist to aid in disasters, even though they are sometimes forced to because of the lack of a fully operational federal international aid organization.

[white_wolf]

21. It is shit like this that makes me lose respect for the institution of the military.

I have never been a big fan of this idea that just because someone is a solider we must respect them. I will respect their service, but there are other people I feel just as worthy of my respect and some more so. I sometimes feel like we have developed a cult of the soldier in this country, that I think can be be very dangerous to a democracy. Or I could be totally wrong, what do you all think?

[Cairycat]

34. We've put our kids on the "do not contact" list

and told them basically that recruiters will lie through their teeth to get someone to join up. Every semester the PE classes let the recruiters come in with a rock wall. They give the kids cards to fill out. My kids write their name and the fact that they're on the do not contact list. So far this has worked out well for my family.

[dkofos]

35. Tell them to put it in writing and give you a call as soon as it's done.

Reminds me of Private Benjamin.