GOPers Trying To Pass Bill Making It Illgegal For The Poor To Have $20

[upstatecajun]

Republicans in Minnesota are pushing a bill which would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets on any given month.



Previously, their proposal was to ban them for having any money at all. It’s baffling as to how they can get public assistance and have no money — also problematic is the mentality of those trying to pass this bill. So much for those ‘common sense values’.

http://freakoutnation.com/2011/03/17/gopers-trying-to-pass-bill-making-it-illgegal-for-the-poor-to-have-20/


http://www.fightbacknews.org/2011/3/15/minnesota-republicans-say-poor-people-money-should-be-outlaws







http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Liberal-Ohioan/195130570504421

[Thunderstruck]

1. The corporate takeover of this country by Regressives is accelerating.

The Class War is being won by those who seek to reduce our standard of living in order to become more rich.

[Jackpine Radical]

23. I think the terms of the Class War are about to change

now that a fair number of people have figured out that they are not only under attack, but who it is that's attacking them.

[BanzaiBonnie]

42. I had never looked at it like this before

The Ponzi scheme unraveled:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x671840

[Avant Guardian]

131. Republicans are coming after your pension

Once they have all the pensions, they go after wages.

[Arkana]

167. Oh my god. You used "Regressives"! The meme is spreading!

Quick, tell me--where did you first hear that term used?

(I'm not being sarcastic--I genuinely want to know, because I'm a member of the board where that meme was coined.)

[Thunderstruck]

170. I saw someone here suggest we call them that and I liked it.

Was that you?

[Arkana]

174. It must have been me--I think I'm the only crossover with Something Awful here.

[truebrit71]

2. What? So once you're down, you MUST stay down??

..I thought they were the 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' party?

[WingDinger]

45. That is not the purpose. It is so they can make them criminals, so they can then justify cutting the

them off entirely.

All those stupid requirements that dont jibe with reality work the same way.

All those poor people on assistance are crooks etc.

[Tatiana]

137. Ding, ding, ding! That's it exactly. It's their way of reducing the rolls.

Much like Clinton's welfare to work reform of public assistance, which forced single parent head of households to work minimum wage jobs or lose their benefits. Nobody cared that parents had to find and pay for child care in order to work.

[WinkyDink]

164. And NO VOTING RIGHTS aferwards.

[Beartracks]

84. They don't want you getting spoiled to having bootstraps....

... or a "hand up" as Dubya used to call it.

---------------

[oneAngryOhioDem]

121. Bootstraps!!??

Remember these guys got their money the hard way...they inherited it (how's that for a broad brush?)

[lob1]

150. They own your bootstraps, too.

[rucky]

169. The boot is over their heads.

stomping away

[Drale]

3. This is the most obvious way of saying

"We want to keep you poor" WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???????

[Thunderstruck]

5. Watch for an attack on minimum wages in Regressive-controlled states.

[tblue37]

60. It is already happening--and an attempt to roll back child labor law. nt

[defendandprotect]

86. They've been chipping away at that for years now ....

and heard some new rumblings, but don't know how far along they are with it!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us --

If you didn't, pass it on -- !!


:)

[on point]

90. WOW!! Thanks for info on DLC. The Koch brothers behind DLC explains tons!!

[nxylas]

133. Anyone seen this Tea Partified version of the Constitution?

I don't normally link to regressive sites, but this lays their vision out very clearly.

http://teapartiers.blogspot.com/2011/01/restoration-amendment.html

[defendandprotect]

146. That's a lot to read right now -- will try to get back to it --

Wouldn't mind an overturning of the Federal Reserve -- but they seem to have other

ideas about afterwards not sure about!

Was there something in there re child labor?

[nxylas]

162. Not sure about child labor

Was it covered in the "progressive era amendments" that they want to repeal? There's an awful lot in there about expanding the definition of treason to effectively mean "disagreeing with a teabagger".

[defendandprotect]

165. That was part of the sub-thread we were in -- see tblue37 just above our posts ...!!

Will try to get back to the link and their suggested amendments!!

[lark]

147. I didn't know and will definitely pass this on to everyone I know

No wonder the DLC sucks so bad. God, I feel awful about donating some to them in the last election cycle. Of course, I also feel really bad about donating to the trojan horse last time too.

Well, lesson learned. None of the above organizations will get another dime from me or my family, ever again.

[defendandprotect]

166. Thank you -- actually ....

I only found out about it myself two weeks or so ago -- !!


Duh!!

[bvar22]

153. DLC & Koch Brothers:

We reformed the Democratic Party
the Old Fashioned Way!

We BOUGHT it!!!
Hahahahahahaha

[JHB]

66. They want to "get government off the backs of the people"...

...but if you're poor, you're not "people".

[ArcticFox]

154. Corporations are "people"

Most of us are just "swine"

[femrap]

138. I think we should frame these

hateful people as 'Pro-slavery.'

[Hannah Bell]

4. is that for real?

[madmax]

8. My thoughts exactly

:wtf: is this! Are we in the freakin Twilight Zone or what?

[Arugula Latte]

50. It sounds like The Onion

:banghead:

[Avant Guardian]

132. The republican party is sounding more and more like an onion parody

Especially the bills they put through

[Arctic Dave]

6. Saving money is now illegal?

Go figure.

[woodsprite]

7. The GOP and their ilk are the American tsunami

They're steamrolling right over everything and everybody and not many people are willing to stand up to them.

[madmax]

9. This is really such bullshit

when the hell does it end? I'm completely disgusted with the republican party. Bunch of fascist bastids.

[eleny]

10. The GOP needs to get a life - This is madness

[KamaAina]

11. Public assistance is now in the form of a debit card

that's how people can be on it and have no cash.

That way the party of smaller government :sarcasm: can control exactly when, where and what purchases the peons make. :eyes:

[dkofos]

12. The stupid seems strong in Minnesota these days.

[Thegonagle]

33. It's not that strong. It's much stronger where they have R legislatures

and R governors, like our neighbors in Wisconsin.

I like to think that the state legislature flipped to R because everybody knew the governor's office was going to a well known compassionate populist Democrat. We like the split government thing, because it forces both sides to back off from their more extreme positions and proposals. Nothing changes too quickly here. It works.

The R's sure are causing much embarrassment with their clueless proposals, but thankfully, they can't become law without a rubber-stamping governor in office.

[glinda]

155. True. MN has to stop thinking like that though. We need to recall some of these crooks.

[upstatecajun]

70. Their every were

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Holy crap. They are evil personified. I so hope

the IDIOTS who vote repuke have seen the light. They're so stupid and ignorant, I highly doubt any of this is sinking in though.

[cali]

14. wtf? aside from being mean and ugly this is breathtakingly stupid

how are they going to identify these folks? What are they going to do? Round up people on public assistance and have them turn their pockets inside out?

Fucking piece of shit scumbags.

[Bonhomme Richard]

15. Follow the money................

"Rather, they could only use a state-issued debit card at special terminals in certain businesses that are set up to accept the card."
Certain businesses? The greed never ends. I can't even imagine the potential for corruption and what it would be worth to the repugs when you are the only place the poor can go to use their cards.
The whole F*&*%#g party ought to be outlawed as a threat to common decency.

[dixiegrrrrl]

38. "the company store"

And, with more and more transfer payments being put on pre-issued debit cards,
( unemployment, Soc. Sec. for those who have no banking account)
the greed is expanding.

[Lorien]

68. Agreed. nt

[liberalhistorian]

74. And I have a sneaky suspicion that, in addition to what you've

just described, another purpose of this complete utter hateful idiocy is to increase the profits of the private prison system. Hence the movement to criminalize damn near anything you can think of nowadays. Some things should never be privatized, such as public health and the criminal justice system.

[truth2power]

91. Private prisons, private everything...

Corporations in collusion with state legislatures across the country writing laws to deprive us of ALL our rights.

www.alecwatch.org

[TheMadMonk]

93. Nothing which services the public. Serves yes. Services no. /nt

[tomg]

145. And we know who those businesses

will be run by. That is it exactly.

[glinda]

156. I agree. They should all be charged with crimes also.

[Bonhomme Richard]

161. One word....RICO n/t

[Skip_In_Boulder]

16. Well, since the economic meltdown in America

I won't have any problem comporting with this bill

[LiberalEsto]

17. Here come the Pocket Police!

Who says Repukes don't create jobs.

[russspeakeasy]

151. Now that was funny. Thanks for the comment.

[GodlessBiker]

18. The lunatics are running that party up there.

[leftstreet]

19. And this is how the Democratic party keeps chasing the right

Where are the Dem legislators pushing bills that make it illegal for a Wall Street bank to have more than $20 in assets before receiving taxpayer bailouts?

:shrug:

[Puzzler]

25. Some Dems, no doubt, will want to compromise at $25

(sarcasm)

[leftstreet]

28. ...

:spray:

[laundry_queen]

71. *snort*

:spray:

[Patiod]

128. +1

[cliffordu]

20. That's almost what Medicaid already requires.

[Ilsa]

21. So they can never climb out of needing public assistance?

Typical thinking for idiot republicans.

[gratuitous]

24. Sort of; but you're looking at it the wrong way 'round

See, then they can say that public assistance doesn't help anyone, because they're all chronically poor! So they have to cut the programs some more so that desperately poor people don't start getting any uppity thoughts about their place on society's ladder.

[RobinA]

135. It's Very Difficult

to climb off assistance. The poor pay more for everything than you and I. It costs money to save money, and if you don't have money... Grocery shopping at the bodega, renting furniture, cheap broken down car (if you are lucky) constantly in need of repairs, constantly buying your way out of the trouble you got into because you are poor, paying a fee to have the electric turned back on, it never ends.

I've got poor people who have to "spend down" meager savings in order to qualify for any kind of assistance.

[upstatecajun]

22. I added a link

[Turbineguy]

26. So where is this

Stupid Academy they seem to have attended?

[Skip_In_Boulder]

27. Here is the operative language from the bill

b(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20
2.2per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from
2.3a vendor.

It seems that they are trying to limit the withdrawal of EBT funds to $20 dollars per month. It doesn't mean that you can't have more than $20 on you just that you can't withdraw more than $20 from public assistance.

Full bill is located here: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0171.1.html&session=ls87

It's still dumb.

[Auntie Bush]

34. I think you can only buy food on those ETB cards. So maybe they

are saying they can have $20.00 per month cash so they can use it for other non food necessities. :shrug:

[Thav]

37. The issue they're trying to avoid

is people getting food assistance getting cash from an ATM using their EBT card and then going out to buy things like drugs or alcohol. I think that's the crux of this argument.

[upstatecajun]

40. I dont think it works that way

EBT cards or the new food stamps.......

[Lyric]

48. Okay--food assistance is NOT able to be withdrawn as cash.

Only people who get CASH assistance can withdraw the cash. Food Stamps are an entirely separate account on those EBT cards, and you can't withdraw cash from that account, period.

What this bill is trying to do is to force poor people to use their cards (for example, via telephone or internet or point-of-sale swipe) instead of withdrawing the cash and using THAT to pay for things. Why? Because they assume that poor people are using the cash to buy alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, and "luxuries". If they force them to use point-of-sale instead, they'll have a record of the purchases that every poor family makes.

The downside is that it removes the ability of poor people to shop at any store that DOESN'T have an EBT card swipe system (and there are plenty of those, especially in food deserts where there isn't a grocery store for miles around and people are forced to buy from gas stations). They would no longer be able to buy fresh vegetables and fruit from the cheap roadside stands. They wouldn't be able to shop at flea markets and yard sales for inexpensive, second-hand clothes and household goods that are often FAR cheaper than Goodwill. They might not be able to pay the babysitter. And of course they'll lose all purchasing privacy, because every purchase will be tracked and recorded.

And make no mistake--this is an attack on black people. When Republicans think of "welfare", they immediately picture the racist, bullshit stereotype of a fat, lazy black woman with ten kids and no husband, living in a crack house and driving a Lexus with shiny rims. They are racist and sexist fuckwits to the CORE, and the future they envision goes like this:

1. Make public assistance so stingy and impossible to qualify for that all those "lazy" people are forced to look for jobs.
2. Kick out as many Latinos as you can legally justify.
3. Move poor black people to rural areas and employ them at minimum wage to pick cotton, beans, and fruit.
4. Profit in the form of racially whitewashed cities and the restoration of the wealthy white "master" class and the poor black "laborer" class.

THAT is what they want. The problem is that we're not going to stand up and PERMIT it. No fucking way.

[madamesilverspurs]

59. Women and children, too.

Specifically, single mothers and their children. Single-parent households receiving assistance are overwhelmingly headed by women; and the majority of those kids have fathers who have chosen to evade their support responsibilities. If mom works, she's vilified for expecting day-care to raise her children; if she stays home with the kids, she's accused of teaching them to rely on welfare.

Apparently, the Wisconsin repub senators don't think their lives are hard enough. Humiliation is already built into the process of accessing help; this latest proposal would compound that.

-

[Skip_In_Boulder]

75. On the EBT card, which incidently is overseen by JP Morgan

There can be both a food stamp and cash assistance benefit. They are going for restrictions on the cash benefit portion.

[Lyric]

82. I know. Some people upthread seemed to misunderstand that, though.

The impression I got was that some people above *didn't* know that, and believed that the poor folks were drawing out cash on their Food Stamps. I was simply explaining that that isn't true.

[woo me with science]

171. Best post in the thread.

Thank you.

[RobinA]

136. It Is

And that isn't an insignificant problem. I could go for being able to get some cash, because stamps don't pay for some virtual necessities, i.e cleaning supplies, etc. I once had a family with a prodigious amount of children and the wife did a bang-up job getting a ton of food for her food stamp dollar. Unfortunately, the kids were a mess because she couldn't buy laundry detergent, soap of tooth paste.

[glinda]

158. Why don't they take Bachman off of drugs first. Control their own DUIs and such.

[Ghost in the Machine]

39. In a lot of states, the cash assistance is put on the same EBT card with the foodstamps

It really doesn't make any sense what they are proposing because people withdraw the cash to pay rent ot utilities or buy gas, etc. Anything that can't be purchased with the EBT card.

All I can say is this is the result of every dumbfuck poor person who ever voted for a republican, and there are a LOT of them, trust me, I live amongst them and know them well. I used to try to talk to them and educate them, asking them *why* they vote against their own best interests. One of the dumbest responses I ever got was "because my grandpappy was a republican and my daddy was a republican so I'm a republican. They would come up out the grave and git me if I ever voted for a Democrat". I shit you not. I gave up on them, now I just point and laugh at their stupid asses.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

76. Some states have both Food Stamps and Cash Assistance

available on the EBT (Electronic Benefits Transactions) card. Which incidentally is managed in most states, if not all, by J.P. Morgan but I think they try to keep that kind of quiet. If the truth were know this is probably because JPM doesn't get as high of a transaction fee on cash withdrawal as they do for purchases of goods and services.

[femrap]

139. so they can't buy soap,

shampoo, personal hygiene products?

May these hateful 'people' choke on their money.

[kickysnana]

53. There is a limit on withdrawals from EBT in MN

I believe it is 4. Most people take the cash in one or two withdrawals and buy money orders to pay utilities and rent as most landlords do not take cash or EBT.

Food stamps have no limits but expire if they are not used in 90 days. First in first out but I imagine they will try to change that too.

[Blue Owl]

29. Thanks, small-government Republicans

Have you checked yourselves lately? Because you're gonna wreck your miserable, rotten, greedy selves.

[Xicano]

30. Looks like a GOP strategy to de facto eliminate public assistance

Where the hell do these greedy, heartless people come from? And they call themselves Christians?

[BadgerKid]

105. Right, they'll just say to look to one's church/faith for help then.

And the usual stuff, i.e., far be it for any tax the rich are already NOT paying to wind up in the hands of the poor.

[caseymoz]

149. That and getting a slave class. nt

[EC]

31. How on earth were they planning on enforcing this?

Have someone outside of every recipients homes and search their pockets when they come and go? Or follow them to see if they spend $$?


I remember when you couldn't have a bank account if on public assistance and I always wondered where they wanted the people to cash their checks. (At the time there were no check cashing places and retail establishments wouldn't cash them) I couldn't see the logic.

I guess now they get cards?

[socialist_n_TN]

69. This will be one of those "Enforce it if we need to" laws..........

You know, if you get stopped for something and they can't pin anything else on you, they can use this. It's not meant to be widely enforced, just when they need it.

[Luciferous]

32. What a bunch of idiots. nt

[jwirr]

35. Thank God for Dayton.

[kickysnana]

54. But you know they are going to tack this crap on required fiscal bills.

[jwirr]

87. Sooner or later we Minnesotans are going to have to fight like they

did in WI. I have asked if the MN DUers wanted to have a place here where we can post what is going on here and what we can do about it. I have two Democrat reps from this district so I know they will do what is right but there may be ways we can work together on other districts.

[Mister Ed]

94. The place to post and plan would be the DU Minnesota forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=160

See you there!

[anarch]

36. that's awesome. maybe they can also make it illegal for them to look a rich person in the eye

and make people on public assistance wear some kind of identifying symbol, so they can be easily identified...or make them live in some segregated part of town, or perhaps a fenced-in camp of some kind.

[tblue37]

61. Yeah, yeah, and they can call it a "work camp," beacuse work makes you free and all. nt

[slampoet]

41. This is exactly the kind of punishment they said was unconstitutional for Bankers!!! WTF!!!

[old mark]

43. K&R- Keep it up, Gopers- go crazy. Sooner or later even the dumbass average

American will have had enough of your bullshit.

mark

[Mimosa]

44. Jaw dropped. Repubs: the Scrooge Party

How about sending the poor to workhouses?

[Initech]

65. These guys make Scrooge seem less evil by comparison.

[tallahasseedem]

46. You know...

everytime I log in I wonder what kind of crap the Walker Republicans are up to now. This one actually shocks me. Ugh!

[upstatecajun]

47. Why?

:shrug:

[tallahasseedem]

49. I just don't even know...

It is getting more absurd by the day. I guess you could see the others (union busting, NPR, etc.) coming, but this one is just insane.

[ck4829]

51. So, taxing billionaires is "SOCIALISM!!!!", but this is OK?

Can someone tell me where the door with the EXIT sign for the Twilight Zone is again?

[hifiguy]

52. I was on GA in Minnesota for more than a year

I got a card, like an ATM card, that you could use in any device that accepted ATM cards. A preset amount of money was placed on the card every month ($160 usable only for food, $200 that could be used for anything). So if I needed $40 for a bus pass, I could get cash in that amount - while paying the fucking ATM fee, of course. Sometimes I was walking around with the kingly amount of $35 in my pocket after a visit to the plasma place. There were days when my cat ate and I didn't.

Fortunately, Gov. Dayton will never sign such a thing.

I would like to string these fuckers up from the streetlights. :puke: :wtf: :grr:

[toddwv]

55. It's getting hard to keep up with all the "WTF?!" legislation that the Republicans pushing?

Seriously, was the entire party dropped on its collective head as children or what?

I can't remember a period during which so much simply petty and inherently mean legislation was proposed. Is it just because I wasn't looking? I mean, there are always dumb bills proposed and by both parties, but the sheer number that is being reported is mindboggling.

[999998th word]

98. They are just trying to keep us off balance.distract and keep us busy playing whack a mole

[LeftishBrit]

56. PLEASE tell me this is satire!

[Toucano]

57. That's so stupid! Everybody knows the poor keep their loot in purple Crown Royal bags

:crazy:

[fascisthunter]

58. still think these whackjobs aren't FASCISTS?

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. That's horrible

[Mojeoux]

63. The Class War: When Did the Rich Declare a Cease-Fire??

The poor have been aggressively attacked for....................ever.

[forty6]

64. The Poor should never shop for groceries for their family of 3 for..

more than a day at a time!

This is how we make slaves! There were laws on the books in the 1870's that restricted how much money a black person could have in his/her possession.

Sounds very familiar.

[aquart]

116. dig out that law and get it online.

May I suggest the heading: Republican Party regressing you to 1832 or whenever that law was.

Push the Regressive Party designation.

[hack89]

67. Unrec for deceptive OP

I guess no one actually read the link.

The bill limits the number of cash backs one can get from a EBT card. They don't care how much money is in your pocket - they just want to limit how EBT funds are spent.

[upstatecajun]

78. Did you read this?

On March 15, Angel Buechner of the Welfare Rights Committee testified in front of the House Health and Human Services Reform Committee on House File 171. Buechner told committee members, “We would like to address the provision that makes it illegal for MFIP families to withdraw cash from the cash portion of the MFIP grant - and in fact, appears to make it illegal for MFIP families to have any type of money at all in their pockets. How do you expect people to take care of business like paying bills such as lights, gas, water, trash and phone?”

House File 171 would make it so that families on MFIP - and disabled single adults on General Assistance and Minnesota Supplemental Aid - could not have their cash grants in cash or put into a checking account. Rather, they could only use a state-issued debit card at special terminals in certain businesses that are set up to accept the card.

http://www.fightbacknews.org/2011/3/15/minnesota-republicans-say-poor-people-money-should-be-outlaws

[russspeakeasy]

152. And by "special stores" that would mean those chain stores

that have a politicians ear and charge 40% more than the store
3 blocks away

[tpsbmam]

83. You're both right. I read the bill itself. Nowhere does it say that aid recipients

can't have more than $20 in their pockets. It is, though, implied since recipients aren't supposed to have another source of income.

[hack89]

85. MFIP actually encourages other income

If you work, you may still get a MFIP grant, depending on your income. Your grant adds to
your family income, helping you work your way out of poverty.Once you are on MFIP, the first 39 percent of
your earned income does not count in deciding the amount of your grant. If you are a single
parent with two children and working 40 hours per week, you can earn as much as $9.52 per hour
and remain on MFIP.


Here is the official Minnesota website:

http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&allowInterrupt=1&noSaveAs=1&dDocName=dhs16_142312

[tpsbmam]

88. Thanks for the info. Given that, there is nothing in the law prohibiting any amount

of cash in a person's pocket. The proposed law limits cash withdrawals to $20/month using the EBT card. The OP and article are then both misleading.

[Oasis_]

109. Evidently this needs to be repeated

I guess no one actually read the link.

The bill limits the number of cash backs one can get from a EBT card. They don't care how much money is in your pocket - they just want to limit how EBT funds are spent.

[Shagbark Hickory]

72. Think of all the jobs it'll create.

:sarcasm:

[Urban Prairie]

73. Perhaps the Rethugs may resort to using enhanced drivers licenses

or state IDs, and attempt to pass legislation requiring them to be presented by everyone and then be scanned/swiped in order to purchase booze and/or cigarettes, just so they can track the type, frequency and amounts, or better still, prevent those receiving public assistance from doing so, and perhaps make it illegal for them to purchase, or be found by law enforcement to be in possession of them.

Prohibition II...but only for those who are on the public dole.

[Raksha]

77. WTF????

[RoccoR5955]

79. They should do the same thing to corporations who get corporate welfare.

BASS TURDS!

[Babel_17]

80. Here's the bottom line

This is about a political ideology that robs and impoverishes its less wealthy members.

It has to provide compensation for that so it targets someone even less well off that can be demonized, held in contempt, and lorded over.

[avebury]

81. And just how

do the Republicans think that people on public assistance will be able to get themselves off of public assistance. Talk about kicking a person when he/she is down. They remind me of the pre-Revolutions days of Russia when the country was owned by a small number of wealthy aristocrats and landowners and the vast majority of people were just serfs. That is what the uber wealthy are trying to do in this country.

[butterfly77]

89. Craaaaaaazzzzzzzzy...

:crazy: :wtf:

[rasputin1952]

92. Oppress the poor even more...

thi sis not only remarkably stupid, it establishes a peramnent class of destitute people, mostly women and children.

This should not pass...and if it did, it would be challenged in court almost immediately. How can any government entity require an individual, regardless of their circumstances to limit the amount of money they can have on their person?

[lpbk2713]

95. Rec #100

Unfuggenbelievable assholes.

[DebJ]

96. Food stamps don't cover soaps, toilet paper, bandaids,

and lots of necessities that cost over $20 a month for a family, even for an individual.

[AsahinaKimi]

97. Debtors PRISON is NEXT ...

:grr: I hate Republicans.

[lpbk2713]

99. The idea of forced labor makes them salivate.

Indentured servitude would beat minimum wage all to hell.

[Mimosa]

101. Naaah. Repossession of our homes, and desperation amount to debtor's prison without bars. ;)

The genius of the owner class is using the carefully chosen arrivistes to support the ownership class. I dare not posts what i know in this respect. I genuinely fear posting what I know.

Within the schism between people worth 5 to 100,000 million dollars and the rest of us lies the social chasm. I am related to somebody in that 20-50million class. This is in my family. This person, but a kid when i took care of him, won't have one tiny thing to do with me even though i was his loving Auntie. I never expressed a poltical view around him. I want nothing from him. But it's almost as if, after katrina, he feared I might 'want something'. My partner and I never asked for or received a dime. the minute Katrina happened i never heard from my multi-mionaire nephew. It seemed I had contracted LEPROSY of the most contagoius kind.

Yet he and his wife support *evangelical mission groups in Guatemala*. The wifey visits Guatemala every year to 'convert' them to Christianity despite them being Catholic! But they won't even speak to me. :( And my partner and i had never ever asked for any aid.

[AsahinaKimi]

102. Normally I would never advocate

Violence, but I am afraid Republicans may PUSH US TO IT.

[999998th word]

106. Debt collectors already are abusing the court systems to enforce payments-

regardless of the validity or type of debt.
They can do this via serving "sewer summons"-claiming you were served,mail -
in person or by publication.
Who reads the court notices from every paper in your jurisdiction?
If you dont receive notice or arent aware of a pending court case and miss the trial
these crooked bastards will put out a warrant for your arrest.
If you arent picked up @home -live in a larger municipality-license check for a
minor traffic infraction they can pull you in.Than their trumped up bullshit
legal fees+court costs kick in.Oh and guess how much bail is?Yup .3ed party bottom
feeders pull this crap and its happening more often.
Not exactly debtors prison but dangerously close.
I am sorry I dont know how to post a link 999,998th ranking word in the global english monitor]
This is legit.
Apology if wrong thread or long also n00b 2 forums+tech.

[AsahinaKimi]

108. Welcome to DU

DU e Yokoso!

[stockholmer]

124. debtors prisons are already back, and ironically one article is about Minnesota

Debtors Prison back in business
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/debtors-prison-back-in-business/



http://www.startribune.com/local/95692619.html

In jail for being in debt. You committed no crime, but an officer is knocking on your door. More Minnesotans are surprised to find themselves being locked up over debts.



http://www.counterpunch.org/breyman12062010.html
The Return of Debtors' Prisons
By STEVE BREYMAN

Spent any time recently (voluntarily or not) in an urban courtroom? After an hour or two, you’re quite certain that debtors’ prisons are back with a vengeance, and a twist. As to the vengeance: In New York City alone, according to a new report from Human Rights Watch, thousands of misdemeanor defendants are held in pre-trial detention every year because they’re unable to throw bail. Note the “pre-trial” part: these are folks merely accused rather than convicted of any offense. The situation is even worse than debtors’ prison because the accused don’t even owe a debt. They end up doing time in advance of a trial for the crime of being poor. It’s like a down payment on a sentence that may or may not include incarceration (but that’s not all the sentences may include, as we’ll see). What working poor person has $1000 lying around to invest in a municipal court as bail when they can’t make the rent, feed themselves or their children, or pay for heat? Nobody I’ve ever met. And what of the rest of our cities’ human flotsam, the unskilled unemployed, homeless, seriously mentally ill, or substance-dependent?

The details are striking.

Among defendants arrested in 2008 on nonfelony charges who had bail set at $1,000 or less, 87 percent were incarcerated because they were unable to post the bail amount at their arraignment. On average, they spent almost 16 days in pretrial detention for low-level offenses. Most were accused of nonviolent minor crimes such as shoplifting, turnstile jumping, smoking marijuana in public, drug possession, trespassing, and prostitution.

Nearly a quarter of the people spending time behind bars on Riker’s Island in 2008—one in four inmates—were there because they didn’t have the money to pay bail on a misdemeanor charge. These unfortunate souls may have been presumed innocent of the criminal charges by the judge, but they were nonetheless jailed for being poor. According to Human Rights Watch (HRW), “pretrial supervision” of misdemeanor defendants is an all-around superior alternative to jailing the poor. But New York City has no such program.

Bail exists to force a defendant back into the courtroom as a case progresses. Apart from establishing a pretrial supervision program, HRW recommends judges might replace cash bail by unsecured appearance bonds (a promise to pay a certain amount upon failure to appear). Failure to appear is hardly rampant in the City’s courts. HRW found that “84 percent of released defendants show up for all their court proceedings; and most of those who miss a scheduled court appearance come back to court within 30 days.”

Then there are the joys of imprisonment for New Yorkers presumed innocent.

Jail can be dehumanizing, unpleasant, and even violent . . . It exacts a high toll on those who are incarcerated as well as on their families, who suffer from reduced income and absent parents or caregivers. Many defendants plead guilty simply to avoid or end pretrial detention. Indeed, guilty pleas account for 99.6 percent of the convictions of New York City misdemeanor defendants.

As if this routine injustice were not enough, there’s the twist, a problem not addressed by the HRW report. It concerns the sentences following the legal proceeding. Judges often sentence those convicted of nonviolent misdemeanors to some combination of community service and a fine. But if you didn’t have the wherewithal to prevent pre-trial detention, where will you find it to pay the fine? Perhaps Human Rights Watch will follow up the current study with one of this problem. How many people spend how much time behind bars because they fail to pay their court-ordered fines on time? Debtors’ prisons were common in the United States until the 1830s. Robert E. Lee’s father, and Declaration of Independence signatories James Wilson and Robert Morris spent time in prison for inability to repay debts. Gentlemen of such lofty station would not likely be incarcerated today for failure to pay (see the case last month of the hit-and-run hedge fund manager allowed a misdemeanor plea by a Colorado judge). Today, incarceration for inability to pay is reserved for the poor.

[999998th word]

168. Stockholmer-thanks for posting links.

[kentauros]

100. Assuming such a thing could pass, how about a counter proposal?

All Minnesota Republicans will be required to close all bank accounts and only carry cash on them. If any member of the law discovers through through a random check more than $1000 on their persons, then it will be assumed they have been bribed/lobbied and will be arrested on the spot. Muggers will also have the right to look in their wallets and make citizen's arrests.

:evilgrin:

[underseasurveyor]

103. What the Hell kind of person thinks up this horseshit?

Boggles the mind:crazy:

[Crusader Rabbit]

104. twenty bucks

Gadhafi would be sooooo proud.

[AKDavy]

107. When the poor have had their fill...

I hope these bastards are the first ones they drag into the street for tarring and feathering.

[deacon]

110. The Regressives are all about HUGE government. n/t

[Morning Dew]

111. I think this was all prompted by a news story from KSTP

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S1830297.shtml?cat=5

the local winger station ( worse than fox)

It's a benefits bonanza that might leave you shaking your head: cigarettes, alcohol, lottery tickets - even tattoos - can be bought with your money.

A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS INVESTIGATION found welfare cash can be used for all sorts of things never intended, from the Twin Cities to the U-S Virgin Islands.

And it's all legal.

Watch our investigation, led by 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS Reporter Mark Albert, that has some lawmakers calling for welfare reform

[ElsewheresDaughter]

112. and they dare to equate themselves with Christians

[Corruption Winz]

113. So, if you get assistance, then....

All you can get is assistance. That'll get these people off of assistance in no time.

"Sorry, sir. That $20 belongs to the government. Now, get your ass out there and get a job. What's that? You can't afford bus toll? Well.. being poor doesn't break your legs, does it?"

[hack89]

117. No - it is exactly the opposite. The more you work the more assistance you get.

They are only talking about how many times a month you can get cash back from an EBT.

See post 85

[Rex]

114. If you kick someone twice as hard, more money is likely to fall out

of their clothes!

[flor-de-jasmim]

115. So we make them wear a yellow star saying "I'm on public assistance - check my pockets"???!!! WTF?!

[indimuse]

118. I feel like America has bee INFILTRATED by NAZI's!! n/t

[fasttense]

119. I'm surprised some RepubliCON Governor hasn't proposed

mass execution of all people making less than $50,000 a year. I mean then the Kock brothers, and their excessively wealthy friends, wouldn't have to fight with all those unions, poor people, thankless ingrates who want their pensions and Social Security. By ordering mass executions of those making less than $50,000 it would rid the corporate aristocracy of most liberals and annoying people who can't be convinced by TV ads or FOX that fascism is best for them.

I think the Tea-baggers would be willing to murder their fellow citizens especially if those citizens are the wrong skin color. Tea-baggers love to hide behind authority so they would gladly carry out the executions and simply say, like the US CIA torturers, I was just following orders.

In case you couldn't tell :sarcasm:

[Heywood J]

120. Here's a link to the actual bill.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/getbill.php?session=ls87&number=HF171&session_number=0&session_year=2011&version=list

The first-engrossment version contains the $20 figure.

2.1(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20
2.2per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from
2.3a vendor.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vinca]

123. So I guess a bill like that would put the people I see cashing in returnable

cans and bottles out of a job. I'm now going outside to hit my head against a rock.:banghead:

[SnowCritter]

125. I read HF0171 and the first engrossment

and that's not what it says - although I can see how it might be interpreted that way.

The following is stipulated under HF0171:

a) recipients of the EBT card issued by the MFIP program can't withdraw cash from an ATM or receive cash back from a vendor,
b) they can't use the EBT card to purchase tobacco products or alcohol,
c) item 'a' not withstanding, they may opt to have up to $20 per month accessible via ATM or vendor cash back,
d) may not use the EBT card for purchases outside of Minnesota (food purchases excepted).

It doesn't say anything about how much money a recipient of MFIP may have, just that no more than the optional $20 per month can come from the MFIP program. And it certainly doesn't lay out any measure of criminality for having more than $20 in their pockets.

You can read the text of the bill here.

If the link doesn't work, here's the URL

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/getbill.php?number=HF0171&session=ls87&version=list&session_number=0&session_year=2011

[Hubert Flottz]

126. Right to what fucking kind of life?

The NAZIS ARE HERE!

[Enthusiast]

127. Republicans are sick fucks.

That is all.

[L. Coyote]

129. Remember when slaves had food, housing, and a job?

[Riley18]

130. The rich longing for the "good old days" when you were

not allowed to have a radio or anything else of value. You had to list what you owned. They would send out people to check up on you too. My mother lived through that time in the 1930's when poor people had very little protection from the powerful, and she sees many direct correlations to the return of those dark times now.

[AlbertCat]

134. Uh... just how does one enforce such a "law"?

"Hey... you look poor... empty your pockets....NOW!"



Maybe I soulda used this photo instead

[dogday]

140. OMG! they might just have a good time with that 20 bucks

these guys are so messed up, I can't even begin to understand where they are coming from.

[global1]

141. This Sort Of Nonsense Defies Belief.......nt

[1776Forever]

142. The people need to keep bringing it back to Wall Street as the enemy!

The people who are working right now are turning against the needy in droves and they are forgetting who did this in the 1st place!

[peacetalksforall]

143. Tea Party profile matches 30% of the country who earn 100% attention the demonstrates

that they are the nations' clowns and fools. On stage for stupidity because they are so out of it they don't know the people are either embarassed, laughing, horrified, silently sobered.

[felix_numinous]

144. So people on public assistance

lose Constitutional rights? The bastards don't recognize they are the monsters our country declared independence from.

WE need to Declare Independence all over again-- from people who are not demonstrating a basic understanding of American inalienable rights.

[blackspade]

148. WTF!!!

Illegal to have a $20?
A $20 is nothing! That is basically a couple of loafs of bread, sandwich meat, and cheese for a week...or less.
And it will only get worse.

When will regular 'common folk' republicans wake up and realize that their party is run by assholes?

[Fire Walk With Me]

157. Punish the poor. How very Republican.

A society is judged by how it treats its weak.

[SteppingRazor]

159. I don't agree with the legislation, but it's a hugely misleading article.

Particularly this line:

"they could only use a state-issued debit card at special terminals in certain businesses that are set up to accept the card."


A more accurate way of saying this would be: "they could only use a state-issued debit card at any business that accepts debit cards."

I assume the "special terminal" they're referring to is a credit-card swiper.

I can't speak specifically to Minnesota, but state-issued debit cards in most states are accepted any place that bank debit cards are.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

160. OK, so if I've got this straight they want to limit cash to these people to $20

Which can only be withdrawn from specific terminals. With no regard to where a disabled person may live or if a poor person can secure transportation to these terminals. If they want their $20 a month they have to go to one of these specific terminals.

Also, all the rest of the money on the card is only to be available for debit card type transactions. Which means if you live in a residence where your landlord doesn't accept debit card payments, you're out of luck. Got other bills to pay where debit cards are not accepted? Again you're out of luck.

Is that about the jest of this idiotic proposed legislation?

[upstatecajun]

173. yep

[WinkyDink]

163. Satan must be holding a "Sink Even LOWER!" game.

[CommonSensePLZ]

172. Recall these idiots, already.

My goodness. I knew republicans would be republicans when America cut off its nose to spite the democratic party last year, but GEEZ! -_-

[MH1]

175. they are sick fucks.