Russia Opposes Land Operation in Libya

[Hannah Bell]

Russia is ready to help the international community in resolving the violent situation in Libya, but is firmly against any land intervention, announced permanent representative to NATO Dmitry Rogozin.

"Our NATO partners need to understand clearly: they can rely on Russia's support only as far as the ceasing of fire and the prevention of civilian casualties are concerned," said Rogozin Saturday.

"Any land campaign will mean straight-out invasion, which is not something the UN resolution mandates," added the Russian envoy.

"If the document is interpreted as giving permission to fire on objects not only in the air, but also on the ground, that will undisputedly lead to many victims," said Rogozin.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=126668


Russian envoy to Nato warns against Libya 'occupation'
By AFPPublished Saturday, March 26, 2011

Russia's envoy to Nato said on Saturday that any ground operation in Libya would be tantamount to an occupation, stressing that the military campaign must stick to the UN Security Council resolution.

"Holding a ground operation will be qualified as an occupation of Libya and this directly contravenes the resolution passed by the UN Security Council," NATO envoy Dmitry Rogozin told the RIA Novosti news agency in Brussels.

Nato's Libya operations must "carry out the already fairly broad terms of the resolution, not going beyond the permitted boundaries," Rogozin was quoted as saying.

Russia abstained from last week's Security Council vote allowing a no-fly zone, while opting not to use its veto, and President Dmitry Medvedev has expressed concern about the "indiscriminate use of force."

http://www.emirates247.com/news/world/russian-envoy-to-nato-warns-against-libya-occupation-2011-03-26-1.373049

[joshcryer]

1. So do the Libyans.

[Hannah Bell]

3. Like "the Libyans" are in charge.

[joshcryer]

7. Ooh, it's a conspiracy.

:tinfoilhat:

[Hannah Bell]

8. non-seq.

and once again, i note that any challenge of your pov brings on instant personal attack.

you've been posting a non-stop barrage of pro-intervention claptrap.

maybe you could allow some other points of view to be represented without going *immediately* to the personal, josh.

[joshcryer]

9. Two expats are controlling the entire revolution.

Holy shit! US made expats are godlike, apparently.

[Hannah Bell]

10. just leading the "revolutionary" government, josh. a minor detail.

but i'm sure that "the people" are firmly in charge of everything.

[joshcryer]

12. Wrong, neither are on the council. Neither.

They're cabinet members and their positions are tenuous at best.

[Hannah Bell]

15. Heading up the new government as an interim prime minister is Mahmoud Jibril....

Heading up the new government as an interim prime minister is Mahmoud Jibril, who had been working as a representative to foreign powers.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/2011322193944862310.html

[bobbolink]

19. The issue from your OP is that Ground Troops aren't wanted by Russia.

Ground Troops aren't wanted by the revolutionaries.

"It's our revolution, and we will fight it."

Ground Troops aren't wanted by those of us who support the revolutionaries.

I hope that clears it up.

[Hannah Bell]

22. which "revolutionaries"?

they don't speak with a single voice.

[bobbolink]

23. Then we're back to the fact that you don't like the Transitional National Council.

You see, you are entitled to your opinion, but you also need to allow us OUR opinion.

I happen to appreciate the movement there, and I don't appreciate being vilified for that.

[Hannah Bell]

25. "you also need to allow us OUR opinion." i hadn't noticed myself shutting down "your"

opinion, bobbi. nor have i ever "vilified" you.

ever.

"your" opinion ("your side's" opinion) has been very much in evidence here from day one.

the claim that i am somehow "shutting down" "your" opinion by voicing mine is pure bullshit.

i repeat, the "revolutionaries" don't speak with a single voice. they never do. but at the top, the people claiming to speak for the "revolution" are longtime US expats.

[bobbolink]

26. How about a bit of "peace", eh?

Look, I have been called now a "war-monger", and that I was "for the Iraq war" and bullshit after bullshit on DU.

I am sick of it, and if you can't empathize with that, then maybe it is time to recalibrate.

I LED with the fact that you don't like the Transitional National Council, which means that nothing we say is "valid" with you.

But you don't respond to that LEAD at all... you jump off on some attack.

I'm done with this kind of "peace".

Vilify if you need to.. whatever floats your "peace" boat.

[Hannah Bell]

28. It's not a question of "liking" or "not liking". It's a question of whose interests are represented.

I have not vilified you. I have not even addressed you on the topic of Libya.

Your post accusing me of vilification, of shutting down your opinions, etc. was the first exchange between you & I on this topic.

I have never accused you of being a war-monger or any of the red herrings you've thrown into your post.

I have no idea what you're talking about except that you don't want to hear any criticism of the shabby enterprise in Libya.

[bobbolink]

30. Nobody accused you. Nobody said YOU.

Stop putting words and motivations in my mouth. Talk about shabby.

PEACE, for gawd's sake. go fight with someone else.

[Hannah Bell]

31. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=756824&mesg_id=760607

[bobbolink]

33. Exactly. NOBODY ACCUSED Y0U.

I can say it again, if you can hear...

I don't appreciate being vilified.

Do you see anywhere that I accused you in that sentence?

Do you?

What the hell is this about?

Enough of makig this personal. Goodbye... have the last unpeaceful word.

[Hannah Bell]

34. ...

Then we're back to the fact that you don't like the Transitional National Council.

You see, you are entitled to your opinion, but you also need to allow us OUR opinion.

I happen to appreciate the movement there, and I don't appreciate being vilified for that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=756824&mesg_id=760607

.....


It's some other "you" you are talking to, & the "vilification" is coming from that other "you".

whatever, bobbi.

[sad sally]

35. All the other military assistance is okay though, right?

And do you really think our missiles would be so accurate if we didn't already have Special Ops on the ground telling them what was going on on the ground? Even with the use of drones, like in Pakistan, we have Special Ops troops there.

[jakeXT]

2. Ground operation in Libya could start in April - Russian intelligence

The international coalition force is planning a ground operation in Libya that could start in late April, a high-ranking Russian intelligence service source said on Friday.

"Information coming via different channels shows that NATO countries, with the active participation of Britain and the United States, are developing a plan for a ground operation on Libyan territory," he said.

"From all indications, a ground operation will be launched if the alliance fails to force the Gaddafi regime to capitulate with air strikes and missile attacks."

If the events in Libya follow this scenario, the ground operation could start "in late April-early May," he added.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110325/163206848.html

[Ikonoklast]

6. Lots of 'Ifs' in that.

I would say that NATO would be amiss if there wasn't a plan being developed to put boots on the ground if they were asked to do so by the Libyan rebel forces.

First, to avoid civilians getting slaughtered if Qaddafi can somehow remain in power, and second, to help stabilize a post-war Libya with the insurgents in charge as they form a new government and provide security from former Qaddafi loyalists.

Either way, I don't see NATO going in unilaterally without being asked to do so by the Libyan rebels.

I do see a Russia that might think they are getting shut out of doing any business with a new LIbyan government by the EU, however. And losing a former arms customer in the process as Qaddafi gets shown the door.

I'm sure that has nothing to do with Russian 'concerns'.

[Hannah Bell]

11. i'm sure it has something to do with russian concerns. also sure that US

concerns are less than transparent as well.

also pretty sure than the great powers will do whatever they like, regardless of the wishes of the "rebels".

but getting agreement from "the rebels" is certainly easier when their presumptive president has lived in the US since childhood.

[Ikonoklast]

14. There is no gaurantee what type of government the Libyans may end up choosing.

I, for one, don't actually care as long as the Libyan people themselves get to decide what type of political system they want running the show.

I don't think they will make a bad choice, myself, but it isn't up to us, or the EU, or Russia to tell them what it is they should do.

Let them choose for themselves.

Hopefully, the powers that be will give the Libyans help when they ask for it, and then step back and leave them to decide what is in their own best interests.

As it seems to be happening, although with a few bumps, in Egypt.

[bobbolink]

27. Exactly. Its not like the 13 Colonies did it perfectly.

What with that little matter of slavery and all.

[PhillySane]

13. Ground operations started in early March

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/168409.html

[rpannier]

4. Mendeved needs to say something. He's probably skating on thin ice

Putin criticized the abstention claiming the whole thing in Libya is another attempt by the US to exploit other countries.
Putin is eligible to run again for President and many think he will.
It could be a rough year for Russia-(insert country here) relations

[malaise]

5. Good

Rec

[Catherina]

16. Good. Now call back the council and put an end to this. Rec'd n/t

[Shagbark Hickory]

17. Yeahh all the countries are offering support as long as they don't do any actual supporting.

A smart strategy for us to take but pathetic.

[Keith Bee]

18. Who's talking land invasion?

Oy, those Russians!

[bobbolink]

24. And conspiracists.

[Godhumor]

20. Didn't have enough conviction to vote against, but will engage in "What ifs" to oppose

Remarkable, really.

[center rising]

21. Ahh, who cares about Russia

They ought to worry about Putin the criminal!!

[Hannah Bell]

32. yes, who cares about russia & china. they're just minor powers.

whose interests we happen to be challenging.

couldn't have any repercussions at all.

[leftstreet]

29. K&R

[bluestate10]

36. A10s have been added to the coalition air arsenal.

Won't be long now. Qaddafi need start studying spanish. He is either dead, or headed to live with his buddy Chavez.

[Starry Messenger]

37. k&r