Libyan Revolution Day 43 (regime looking for exit strategy?)

[joshcryer]

Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1">AJE Live Blog April 1 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418">BBC Live Blog http://live.reuters.com/Event/Middle_East_Protests">Reuters Live Blog http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x780359">Day 42 part 2 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678">Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!

A rebel stands inside a bullet-riddled guard house at a roadside checkpoint on the outskirts of Ajdabiya on March 31

Photograph: AFP

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/gaddaf-envoy-britain-secret-talks-exit-strategy">Revealed: Gaddafi envoy in Britain for secret talks
Colonel Gaddafi's regime has sent one of its most trusted envoys to London for confidential talks with British officials, the Guardian can reveal.

Mohammed Ismail, a senior aide to Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, visited London in recent days, British government sources familiar with the meeting have confirmed. The contacts with Ismail are believed to have been one of a number between Libyan officials and the west in the last fortnight, amid signs that the regime may be looking for an exit strategy.

Disclosure of Ismail's visit comes in the immediate aftermath of the defection to Britain of Moussa Koussa, Libya's foreign minister and its former external intelligence head, who has been Britain's main conduit to the Gaddafi regime since the early 1990s.

A team led by the British ambassador to Libya, Richard Northern, and MI6 officers embarked on a lengthy debriefing of Koussa at a safe house after he flew into Farnborough airport on Wednesday night from Tunisia. Government sources said the questioning would take time because Koussa's state of mind was "delicate" after he left his family in Libya.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/mar/31/moussa-koussa-libya">Is defection of Moussa Koussa similar to flight of Rudolf Hess to Scotland?
Robert Halfon, one of the smartest new Tory MPs, raised an intriguing parallel today. He said that the defection to Britain of Moussa Koussa, the Libyan foreign minister, by a private jet from Tunisia is on a par with the famous flight to Scotland of Rudolf Hess, Adolf Hitler's deputy, almost exactly 70 years ago. This is what Halfon told Radio 4's The World at One:

I think what has happened is comparable to Rudolf Hess coming here during the second world war.

The fact is that this man is most likely a war criminal. He has allegedly been responsible for the deaths of British citizens, allegedly the organiser of the Lockerbie bombing. He is part of the Gaddafi totalitarian regime. In my view, and in that of many others, he needs to go to the International Court to face trials for war crimes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/gaddafi-envoy-mohammed-ismail-britain">Libyan fixer's visit to London may show Gaddafi's sons want a way out
Mohammed Ismail, a key figure in Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime, has no portfolio and no job description.

An aide to Gaddafi's powerful son Saif al-Islam, the clues to his power are to be found in his office in Tripoli, a huge suite in a guarded compound. They are to be found too in what he has done: acting as an interlocutor for the regime on everything from blocked licences for arms sales and political contacts.

So the news that he has been in London in recent days for meetings with British officials is more than intriguing. Ismail is Saif's fixer – intelligent, discreet and powerful.

And increasingly, according to those familiar with how Saif and his brother Saadi are thinking, Gaddafi's sons have become aware that they have a problem that they need to find a way out of – despite Saif's bellicose language.

Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=730234&mesg_id=731532

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594751

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’ Italy: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi

(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2011/03/2011328194855872276.html">Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvS7iW22">Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/29/vision-democratic-libya-interim-national-council">A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map

Military Installations



Oil Map



http://bit.ly/fe3P">Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=212059469427545728757.00049c4df2474b6543347&ll=31.203405,30.058594&spn=96.173452,183.867188&z=3">MAP of Protests across the Middle East

Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began

I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/23/a_bright_voice_from_libyas_darkness">this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.

[joshcryer]

1. Current time in Libya, 3:19am Friday, April 1

[joshcryer]

2. Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/31/getting_libyas_rebels_wrong">Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.
The recent remarks by Adm. James Stavridis, NATO's supreme allied commander for Europe, alleging "flickers in the intelligence of potential al Qaeda, Hezbollah" among Libyan rebels are indicative of a disturbing trend in much of the discussion -- and reporting -- on Libya over the past several weeks. Ambiguous statements linking Libya and al Qaeda have repeatedly been made in the media without clarifying or providing appropriate context to such remarks. In many instances, these claims have been distorted or exaggerated; at times they have simply been false.

The admiral's comments -- and the subsequent headlines they've engendered -- represent a new level of irresponsibility, constructing false connections, through use of highly obscure and equivocal language, between al Qaeda and Libyan pro-democracy forces backed by the Transitional National Council. The latter is itself led by a group of well-known and respected Libyan professionals and technocrats. Even more far-fetched is the admiral's mention of a Hezbollah connection, or "flicker" as he put it.

Statements of this type are troubling because of their tendency to create alarmist ripple effects. Such perceptions, once created, are nearly impossible to reverse and may do serious damage to the pro-democracy cause in Libya. The fact that Stavridis qualified his comments by stating that the opposition's leadership appeared to be "responsible men and women" will almost certainly be overshadowed by the mention of al Qaeda in the same breath. One must wonder, then, what precisely was the purpose of the admiral's vague and perplexing remarks.

There is a pressing need for officials and commentators to clarify connections drawn between Libya and al Qaeda and to provide more accurate and responsible analysis. And it's not just Stavridis's reference to al Qaeda that is problematic; two similar claims making the media rounds also demand careful scrutiny. One involves an anti-Qaddafi organization called the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) that confronted and was crushed by the regime in the 1990s. The second involves disturbing reports of the recruitment of Libyan youth by al Qaeda in Iraq, some of whom left their homes to take part in suicide missions in that country. Neither is connected to the current uprising, but both are frequently mentioned when discussing it.

The MSM likes to make shit up and stir shit just to get hits on websites and ad-views on their TV networks. And people eat it the fuck up.

[pinboy3niner]

3. CNN's Fred Pleitgen tours terrifying streets, gory hospitals of besieged Libyan city of Misrata

IvanCNN CNN's Fred Pleitgen tours the terrifying streets and gory hospitals of the besieged Libyan city of Misrata http://bit.ly/hmV959 #Libya

http://twitter.com/cnni/arabunrest

[pinboy3niner]

4. Al Jazeera: Voices of Tripoli Part 1

In Tripoli, speaking out against Libya's longterm leader Muammar Gaddafi is a dangerous business, with reports of horrific violence meted out to those who have told media operatives of their support for the opposition.

With the movement of journalists in Libya's capital city heavily restricted, these voices often go unheard.

In the first of three special reports, Al Jazeera meets those willing to talk about the hopes and frustrations of life in Tripoli.

Watch at AJE...

3:10am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1


...OR watch on YouTube:

voicesoftripoli part1 pkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R86U4HiWl40&feature=player_embedded

[gateley]

5. Rachel is on covering this now, joshcryer -- that they may be looking for an exit

strategy. Coming up after commercial, 'what the US might be doing to hasten that exit.' Can you tune in?

Recommend, natch - awesome coverage! :pals:

[joshcryer]

6. Thanks for the heads up, watching it online here:

http://www.justin.tv/rockinroosters21#/w/1021631376/26

[joshcryer]

9. I didn't realize Rachael was such a sex object.

:rofl:

(Reading the comments in the chat. GEEZ guys, get a grip!)

[kenny blankenship]

18. I predict Gaddafy will survive his overthrow and go on to have a successful second career in fashion

Some people will adopt any line he puts out.

[pinboy3niner]

21. ...after he competes on "Dancing with the Stars"

(He hasn't made up his mind yet about "The Apprentice" and "Survivor.") :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

101. LIBYA HURRA !!! Love it !! :)

[joshcryer]

7. In Tripoli speaking out against Libya's Muammar Gaddafi is a dangerous business - video

3:10am In Tripoli, speaking out against Libya's longterm leader Muammar Gaddafi is a dangerous business, with reports of horrific violence meted out to those who have told media operatives of their support for the opposition.

With the movement of journalists in Libya's capital city heavily restricted, these voices often go unheard.

In the first of three special reports, Al Jazeera meets those willing to talk about the hopes and frustrations of life in Tripoli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R86U4HiWl40

[Cognitive_Resonance]

8. Time is not on the Gaddafi regime's side

They're isolated, under siege, and the big fish are defecting. Their military capability has a rapidly diminishing shelf life, and at some point perhaps sooner rather than later the revolutionary forces will get their act together as a more disciplined and effective fighting force.

[Turborama]

10. Time: Moussa Kusa's Defection A "Thundering Blow To Gaddafi's Standing & The Morale Of His Regime"

Posted here, please K&R if you think it's a valuable read: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x782359

[Yosarian71]

14. I would give full amnesty to Kusa

He is a monster, but vengeance is not worth more lives. There is one goal and one goal only, the removal of the Gadhafi regime. If they have to give Gadhafi full amnesty, it is a small price to pay to end this war. We need carrots in addition to sticks.

[Turborama]

32. It is a dilema. As a reporter on AJE just asked, what incentive do any other insiders have to defect

...if they know they're just going to end up in the ICC anyway?

I'm glad I'm not the person who has to make the ultimate decision on this.

[joshcryer]

11. A former US diplomat to Libya, is wary of taking Moussa Koussa's flight to Britain at face value

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1#update-22091">3:35am Henry Schuler, a former US diplomat to Libya, is wary of taking Moussa Koussa's flight to Britain at face value. He told Al Jazeera's Inside Story that officials should be cautious of treating his reports as entirely factual:

We have to bear in mind that its rather unusual that Moussa Koussa was able to leave Libya without being detected. Especially since his name was conspicuously absent from the no travel and asset freeze sanctions - that should have been a warning to Gaddafi that something was afoot, that someone was trying to lure him away.

I can't believe entirely that Gaddafi simply missed the chance to stop him from leaving. I'm not sure he's not out doing an errand for Gaddafi - as he did throughout the past decade.

We're told he's going to talk about what conditions were like and they're hoping to get intelligence as to Gaddafi's state of mind - and if he provides disinformation in that respect, it will make it extremely difficult to make a reasonable assessment of how the regime is standing up.

[Turborama]

12. AC360 is covering Musa Kusa's defection & will be discussing Eman al-Obeidy's situation and more

[Turborama]

16. Cooper is now interviewing the 4 NYT reporters who were detained. n/t

[Turborama]

13. Revealed: Gaddafi envoy in Britain for secret talks

Guardian article posted in LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4795914

[tabatha]

25. Yep, now the bargaining and bribery starts

for the Gaddafis to save their own skins after taking the lives of so many others. Pathetic. The only plus is that hopefully they will get out of Libya for good.

[joshcryer]

15. Mohammed Nabbous: Libya's Independent Journalist Martyred

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2011/03/mohammed-nabbous">Mohammed Nabbous: Libya's Independent Journalist Martyred
The world has dubbed these people “rebels”. Who are the Libyan rebels? questioned the headlines of several articles. Are they Al Qaeda? Are they Islamists? Who are these children wielding guns like toys, these men straddling tanks like horses?

And I wish I could answer: they are Mohamed Nabbous. They are Hamadi Herwees. They are Iman Al Obeidi. They are young children and old men; women and teenagers.

They are teachers and doctors; architects and engineers.

They are journalists and story-tellers. I call them family. I call them friends.

[tabatha]

19. One of the reasons I keep coming back to these pages

is that one of these days I hope to find out that his dream has come true, and that his kid will know freedom. It was tragic that a talent like Mo was lost so early in his life.

In the meantime, I am trying to think of suitable words for here:
http://www.mohamednabbous.com/condolences.php

[joshcryer]

20. Thanks to Misty for pointing that out to me, btw.

[tabatha]

28. Are we talking about the same page?

I posted the Mo tribute page a couple times in case anyone wanted to contribute thoughts to his memory.

Misty's posts are always great.

[Turborama]

17. More Senior Libyans 'To Defect Within Days'

Article posted in LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4795950

[joshcryer]

22. LOL: Al-Qaida leaders welcome Arab uprisings, says cleric

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/alqaida-leaders-welcome-arab-uprisings">Al-Qaida leaders welcome Arab uprisings, says cleric
Senior al-Qaida leaders have welcomed the uprisings in the Arab world in their first comprehensive statement on recent events, published in an internet magazine earlier this week.

Anwar al-Awlaki – the radical preacher who grew up in America but is now a fugitive in Yemen – used a lengthy article in an English-language magazine called Inspire to explain why the revolts sweeping the Middle East were not a setback for al-Qaida.

"Our mujahideen brothers in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and the rest of the Muslim world will get a chance to breathe again after three decades of suffocation," Awlaki wrote in an article entitled The Tsunami of Change.

The magazine also featured translated excerpts of earlier statements by senior figures in al-Qaida, such as deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahiri, which had previously only been posted in obscure extremist forums.

Now Egypt and Tunisia are terrorists!

[David__77]

36. Of course not.

It is natural that these forces would participate in and applaud the recent events in Egypt and Tunisia. That doesn't speak to the political character of the events, however. It's also true that the successful stabilization of plural political systems in which citizens feel they are political stakeholders would be BAD for those forces. But I think they are banking on that not happening; rather, they think the relative DEstabilization will facilitate openings for cadre recruitment. I have no idea which scenario would or could play out, but I know that these forces' machinations does not speak to the political character of upheaval in a number of Arab countries.

[joshcryer]

23. a "senior aide" to Saif al-Islam Gaddafi has been sent to London for talks with British officials

4:30am Mohammed Ismail, a "senior aide" to Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, has been sent to London for talks with British officials, says the Guardian newspaper. A foreign ministry spokeswoman neither confirmed nor denied the report:

We are not going to provide a running commentary on our contact with Libyan officials ... In any contact that we do have, we make it clear that Gaddafi has to go.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1#update-22096

Live and die in LIbya, eh, Saif? :puke:

Fucking scumbag.

[pinboy3niner]

24. In Libya’s rebel base, a mix of hope and fear

Soource: The Washington Post

In Libya’s rebel base, a mix of hope and fear


By Tara Bahrampour, Thursday, March 31, 9:35 PM

...


On one hand the city is home to a cadre of highly educated, professional and cosmopolitan leaders who speak confidently of a democratic state to come, and cultivate international partners to help bring that state to fruition. Gaddafi, they swear, will fall in a week or so and a glorious new Libya will rise.

But 100 miles to the west, a ragged collection of untrained civilians struggles in an uneven battle to keep government tanks at bay. Since midweek, as Gaddafi’s forces have crept closer, Benghazi residents have gone to bed wondering whether they will wake to a city under siege.

“I just want a normal life,” said Mohammad el-Sayed, 27, a lecturer at Benghazi’s Technical Engineering College, as he drove down a road where light poles and highway overpasses bore the scars of missile attacks. “I want this to be over. We just want everything to be stable.”

But the only thing certain in Benghazi is that nothing is certain. With a battle line that races erratically backward and forward up the coastal road, even fighters returning from the front cannot say for sure what is happening there.

...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-libyas-rebel-base-a-mix-of-hope-and-fear/2011/03/31/AF1X8lCC_story.html

[MedleyMisty]

26. Women of the Libyan Revolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvMtCp8cgtE

I watched the video and I'm crying my guts out, and I am thisclose to declaring people who have so much hate and fear inside that they say the Libyans are Al Qaeda as being disqualified from the human species.

I don't understand how people can say that they don't know who the revolutionaries are. Not when the information is so easily available to anyone with an internet connection, so it really can't be that hard for officials to find. So I can assume one of two things - that there is a definite agenda to the whole "who are these rebels?" thing and an evil intent, or that our government has no idea how to use the internet or even just talk to people on the ground.

I am increasingly thinking that we make up conspiracy theories and attribute grand evil intents to authorities because we are more intelligent and more informed than they are and we try to guess at their motivations assuming that they know what we know. But I think they are stuck in the 20th century and don't have any idea how to deal with current social realities, and I think that's why they're getting overthrown. Their institutions have become outdated, their modes of thinking no longer apply, and they have no clue how to use modern technology.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[tabatha]

27. One of the best videos I have seen. Thanks!!

[defendandprotect]

102. Think this should be posted in GD ... they're not seeing enough of what's been...

going on -- and it becomes a divide in what we know and what they know --

:)

Thank you!!

[tabatha]

29. The Libyan Crisis: Three Lessons for Global Politics

First is the issue of U.S. leadership and its global responsibilities. After the debacle in Iraq and the debilitating financial crisis, many expected that the U.S. would consciously limit itself when it came to undertaking global humanitarian missions. Moreover, it was widely believed that with the change in leadership at the White House, the Obama administration would take a step back from its predecessor's emphasis on democracy-promotion. However, the United States' readiness to impose the mandate of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973 proved both of those hypotheses wrong.

Second is the role of emerging powers, in particular India, Russia, Brazil and China, all of whom notably abstained from the vote on Resolution 1973. These countries acknowledged that the Libyan tyrant's actions were creating a humanitarian crisis and that the violence against civilians needed to be halted immediately. But they opposed resorting to military action, as advocated by Western democracies. Their inhibitions against intervention emanate in part from the fact that their own internal nation-building projects remain incomplete:

The third major lesson of the Libyan crisis is that when it comes to contested norms of international politics, what matters is the willingness and wherewithal to support one's perspective. The norm of nonintervention in the internal matters of sovereign states has been severely challenged, especially in cases of gross human rights violations and mass killings perpetrated by unyielding dictatorships. With the growing acceptance of the "responsibility to protect," the norm of nonintervention has slipped from a position of universal acceptance during the Cold War into a one of moral contestation.

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/8370/the-libyan-crisis-three-lessons-for-global-politics

[MedleyMisty]

30. I keep watching that video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvMtCp8cgtE

And I see the woman at the end, the one crying and saying to tell Gaddafi to stop killing Libyan people.

I go out away from this thread, to see people I once trusted, once thought good, once respected, saying that the lives of Libyans aren't worth saving, aren't worth as much as dictionary definitions of terms, as letters of laws, as political points.

I have to leave now and go scream and sob and shake.

[joshcryer]

31. That's a very sweet video, it will go in the regular updates.

:hug:

[joshcryer]

33. Rebels cheer cracks in Gaddafi rule

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-libya-idUSTRE7270JP20110401">Rebels cheer cracks in Gaddafi rule
(Reuters) - Rebels cheered the defection of a Libyan minister as a sign that Muammar Gaddafi's rule was crumbling, but U.S. officials warned he was far from beaten and made clear they feared entanglement in another painful war.

After former Libyan foreign minister Moussa Koussa arrived in Britain, London urged others around Gaddafi to follow suit. "Gaddafi must be asking himself who will be the next to abandon him," Foreign Secretary William Hague said.

Soon afterwards Ali Abdussalam Treki declined to take up his appointment by Gaddafi as U.N. ambassador, condemning the "spilling of blood" in Libya.

But reports of defections of more senior Gaddafi aides remained unconfirmed.

[joshcryer]

34. More than 400 rebel supporters missing in east Libya

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-libya-east-missing-idUSTRE7300VX20110401">More than 400 rebel supporters missing in east Libya
(Reuters) - More than 400 people have gone missing in east Libya since the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi began six weeks ago, many feared killed or captured by government forces, human rights officials say.

Relatives have stuck posters on the walls of hospital lobbies with photos of missing young men and telephone numbers to call with any information.

Ahmed Mahdy Hussein, unheard from since February 20, was one of the names listed at Al Jala hospital in Benghazi. Saleh Ukel Hussein, born in 1976, was another, missing since the same date.

More than 120 posters adorned the walls and entrance gate of the hospital. At least four showed men in military uniform.

[joshcryer]

35. Col Gaddafi brushed off both the impact of airstrikes and the reported defections in his latest addr

0804: Col Gaddafi brushed off both the impact of airstrikes and the reported defections in his latest address on Thursday, accusing foreign powers involved in the military action of being "power-mad" and calling on their leaders to resign immediately in order to end the conflict.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

37. Pro-democracy forces in Libya are regrouping to try to re-take the town of Brega

9:14am Pro-democracy forces in Libya are regrouping to try to re-take the town of Brega from forces loyal to Gaddafi.

After making gains over the last week aided by international air strikes, they are now struggling to hold back the Libyan leader's army.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1#update-22131

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. Ok, I've got a doozy for you, Josh. Tell me what you make of it.

This is from Almanara Media, which evidently has at least some credibility as it's quoted by some of the news sources. Below is the original link in Arabic, and then the tiny link is translated by Google Chrome.

http://almanaramedia.blogspot.com/2011/04/31-2011.html#more

http://tinyurl.com/3shlvqu

April 1, 2011
Daily Bulletin of the Media Center of the sergeant Libya - Thursday, March 31:

News clouds of Tripoli:
Breaking News: According to what the brother Abdel Moneim Hun delegate former Libyan League of Arab States, in the course of his interview with Radio-Jazeera, that there are splits within the family of Gaddafi and they (Muhammad Saadi, a descriptive wife-Qadhafi, Al-Arab, also Aisha), and they prefer Travel outside the country. But (Muammar Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and Mu'tasim) still prefer to fight the Libyan people.

Quoting from our own sources, that the activists of the rebels Feb. 17 in the city of Tripoli, are preparing for the zero hour, which is now approaching, as was seizure of some weapons and ammunition from one of the camps in Tripoli, as noted the large number of arrests carried out by al-Gaddafi security among young people to use them as shields human and in anticipation of an uprising on Friday.

One source said this morning was withdrawn 210 tons of gold and $ 650 million and 295 million euros and 810 million dinars and 113 million pounds, also withdrew its financial documents for the Abu Sayyaf and Chavez and Ortega and several Heads of States of Latin America from the central bank in Tripoli. Sources said, that there are many of the tanks stationed within the areas and streets of Tripoli.

News clouds of Libyan-Tunisian border:
Sources, there are a number of characters in charge of the Gaddafi regime in Tunisia's Djerba International Airport, where it is contact with the West in order to ensure a safe exit for them, and they Abdul Ati al-Obeidi and Bouzid Dorda and Shokri Ghanem. She informed the confiscation, it was noted during the past three days, a large movement of cars Libyan plates political and diplomatic bodies in Tunisia.

News clouds of Benghazi:
Start of the march of protest in the city of Benghazi, on the back of the commander of Nato statement that there elements of al Qaeda and Hezbollah in Libya. Informed source, the maintenance of prison Alkwyvip, was deposited approximately 50 prisoners on the back of criminal cases.

News from the clouds and Ajdabiya Brega:
Quoting an eyewitness, the coalition forces bombed al-Gaddafi mechanisms vicinity of the village Achilles South Brega. Quoting the rebels were defeated battalions Gaddafi to the area west of humans Brega.

News sporadic Nalut:
News from Nalout, deployment of twenty cars and rocket launchers (Grad), under the trees, the western entrance area come.

News clouds of visitors:
Sources said, that there is a tank stationed in front of East Zuwarah gas plant away from Zuwarah about 10 km. There are also several tanks stationed in the streets of Tripoli.

February 17 rebels clashed in the city of Zuwarah with the strength of the security battalion, killing seven and injuring more than twenty members of the Brigades, and fell from the rebels in this battle, three martyrs were: Ibrahim Assem Buaba and powerful and Muhannad Obuajajp.

I tried a group of armed battalions of security forces in a civilian car, breaking into a house in the city of Zuwarah home to a group of rebels, Vachtbk with the rebels and killed a security elements and wounded four others, the rebels have managed to leave the site before it reaches the reinforcements from other battalions.



Thursday, 31 March 2011

Gaddafi's officials escape to Tunisia:
Source within the Gaddafi regime have confirmed that high officials 'Shukri Ghanim', 'AbdulAty AlUbaidi', 'Mohammed Belgasim AlZway' and 'Buzayd Doorda' have all escaped to Tunisia and no longer associate themselves with the Gaddafi regime.

Opposition ambush Gaddafi militias:
Eye witnesses have reported from the front line that Revolutionary fighters have performed a number of ambushes on Gaddafi's militias that were advancing to the east. These ambushes took place in the small villages of 'Bishr' and 'AlAqila' and resulted in the death and injury of many of Gaddafi's militias and the capture of many in the village of 'Bishr'.

90% of Gaddafi militias are African mercenaries:
Revolutionary soldiers from the front line have reported to local Libyan newspapers and media groups that approximately 90% of Gaddafi's militias are foreign African mercenaries. This is based on Revolutionaries fighting against militias in the east. This is based on Revolutionaries fighting against militias in the east.

I'm shocked by: 1) the report of the Gaddafi family members said to be leaving (possibly/probably with the loot referred to); 2) mention of financial documents involving Abu Sayyaf (which I googled - a very bloodthirsty Islamic terrorist group in the Phillipines), Chavez and Ortega - was Gadaffi financing Abu Sayyaf? If so, OMG! 3) the amount of gold and cash "withdrawn" was about 2 BILLION; 4) the mention of Vachtbk with the rebels (with them as a tv man, twitter says, but also that he is a deadly Serbian spying for Gaddafi - some twitterers are trying to alert about that).

The last three entries were from www.livelibya.com (it's in English) where I also found the next interesting item, among others:

Warfala tribe leaves Sirt
Friday, 01 April 2011 06:54

Eye witness sources from within the city of Misrata have stated that many if not all members of the Warfala tribe that has traditionally sided with Gaddafi, have left the city of Sirt. The tribe had rejected Gaddafi’s request for them to stay in Sirt after they saw the Gaddafa tribe leaving Sirt themselves, among them the family that Gaddafi himself originates from. It is believed that the Warfala tribe constitutes half the population of Sirt and it is also believed that the tribe is heading to the town of Bani Waleed and other neighbouring towns. This report is in sync to a report from Reuters news group that stated that 50 blacked out military vehicles have left the city of Sirt on Sunday heading for the capitol.

If Gadaffi's own tribe is leaving Sirt, he must be in some very big trouble. And half the population of Sirt? Leaving? Wow.

I think another defection was noted on that site too - I lose track of the names by now. If all/most of these rumors are real, we'll need to make a list of defectors soon to keep track of them.

Anyway, I know this is unconfirmed stuff yet. Until it's denied though, I want to keep an eye on it. A possible financial connection between Gadaffi and Abu Sayyef is very alarming, and so is the presence of a notorious Serb on his side. (I had read last week that Gaddafi hired a lot of Serb mercs, and get this - Serb online propagandists too.)

[joshcryer]

39. Not sure what to make of it. I can tell you this, it wouldn't surprise me.

But it seems like too good of news to really be happening (a money dump means that officials are soon to follow). Latin America and a few African states are the only place that they can really dump their money and make it disappear (corruption indexes are very high in the two countries mentioned). But they would have to drive out of Tunisia, and then fly out from there, they couldn't leave Libya by plane obviously.

[David__77]

44. Al Manara has spread all sorts of fictions as "CONFIRMED!"

They stated that an airbase in Sirte had been taken over by rebels and that 8,000 Gaddafi troops defected in the east during mid-March. I have semi-closely followed their releases, which have a sort of over-the-top style to them, and they are at least strongly laced with untruths. The problem is that there may also be useful information there. That said, I honestly do not understand the point of opposition forces deliberately spreading untruths. It's dangerous. Many of the rebels who charged toward Sirte earlier did so thinking and believing that the path would be relatively easy. These perceptions were fueled by such false media reports. Are Gaddafi supporters planting these "regime is collapsing" stories?

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. Reuters picking up AJE says the 4 officials named as defecting is true.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4796220#4796234


Karl Stago-Navarra's list is as follows:


ksnavarra
FULL LIST : Abu Al-Qassim Al-Zawi, Al-Ubaidi (Foreign Min EU senior official) Rafiq Al Zawi (London Emb) Ahmed Shalih (Wshington embassy)
30 Mar

ksnavarra
LIST 2: Abu-Zayd Dordah (cheif intel) Dr. Shukri Ghanim 9chief petroleum Comp)
30 Mar

[mm1945a]

99. I think 200 tons of gold is unlikely.

Thanks Waiting for everyman, you did a great job.
I also want to say, "Thank you very much" to josh, niner, turorama, tabatha and others.
Regarding to gold you mention, I check on Wikipedia, Libya reserve only has 143 tons of gold last year. Very unlikely they can get 200 tons. Besides, 200 tons weight will requires 10 x 20' container to carry. Understand Gaddafi controls everything, but like ask Bernanke to take out 8000 ton gold -- it is not that easy.

[joshcryer]

40. Gadhafi: Leaders of airstrikes should go, not me

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110401/ap_on_bi_ge/af_libya">Gadhafi: Leaders of airstrikes should go, not me
TRIPOLI, Libya – Moammar Gadhafi struck a defiant stance Thursday after two high-profile defections from his regime, saying he's not the one who should go — it's the Western leaders who have decimated his military with airstrikes who should resign immediately.

Gadhafi's message was undercut by its delivery — a scroll across the bottom of state TV as he remained out of sight. The White House said the strongman's inner circle was clearly crumbling with the loss of Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, who flew from Tunisia to England on Wednesday.

Ali Abdessalam Treki, a former foreign minister and U.N. General Assembly president, announced his departure on several opposition websites the next day, saying "It is our nation's right to live in freedom and democracy and enjoy a good life."

Gadhafi accused the leaders of the countries attacking his forces of being "affected by power madness."

Power madness, eh? How about holding on to power despite that half of your country geographically doesn't want you anymore, and despite that possibly even the majority of the population doesn't? (We know that every town in the west that rose up was silenced severely.)

[joshcryer]

41. Tripoli witnesses: humor amid the fear

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12923778">Tripoli witnesses: humor amid the fear
Intoxicated

My friend recounted what could be regarded as an amusing scene he witnessed from his balcony in downtown Tripoli more than a week ago.

"It was late at night and an elderly man wobbled his way down the street shouting 'Allah , Muammar , and Libya!' He paused for a moment and turned to a group of men standing on the street and added: "But he IS taking long isn't he? He said it will be over in days, no?' It was quite a sight!".

There were fits of laughter - I'm told - from the group of men listening to him as they gently urged the drunkard to go home. What is odd in this scenario is that up until a month ago, no man in Libya publicly displayed intoxication - not least because alcohol is illegal here.

:rofl:

Funny article. Yeah, bitches, freedom is a bitch.

[joshcryer]

42. Libyan rebels look to compete with Gaddafi through oil

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12915894">Libyan rebels look to compete with Gaddafi through oil
Since Libya's uprising began in February, the north of the country has become a battlefield and the production of oil - which generated most of the country's income - has slowed dramatically.

In the west, Col Muammar Gaddafi is thought to be using huge reserves of cash, and possibly gold, to pay those fighting to keep him in power.

In the east, rebels trying to topple his regime have appeared weak in comparison, relying on the UN-backed international military mission to make gains.

They want to shore up their position by exporting oil, which would potentially give them billions of dollars to buy supplies and arms, and bolster their credibility as a future government.

[David__77]

43. Diane Feinstein supports NATO ground troops in Libya?

Sen. Dianne Feinstein told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that there was "no daylight" between herself and President Obama regarding Libya.

"The president said no boots on the ground, and I agree with him," Feinstein said, adding that NATO should do its part. "We have a number of other nations who can put boots on the ground."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/03/robert-gates-on-libya-no-american-troops-on-the-ground-1.html?cid=6a00d8341c630a53ef014e604cdc4c970c

....

Is she "giving something away?" What does this mean, stating that other countries "can" invade with ground troops. It seems that a stage is being set. Will the Benghazi authorities remain steadfast in their stated opposition to foreign ground forces in Libya?

[joshcryer]

45. At a checkpoint outside of Ajdabiyah rebels prevented unarmed Libyans from joining the battle

10:30am Rebels moved rockets and other equipment forward towards Brega today, seeking to retake the oil town and regain momentum against better equipped government forces.

At a checkpoint on the outskirts of the strategic eastern town of Ajdabiyah, rebels prevented unarmed Libyans seeking to join battle from going beyond the town's boundaries towards Brega, where rebels and Gaddafi's troops fought on Thursday.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1#update-22176

Wow. So they are finally wising up? I personally think the entire retreat was because all of the unarmed Libyans panicked to fuck and back and just bailed out. And of course even the armed ones fled because they didn't know wtf to do either. Tightening down the ranks will help assure future victories.

[joshcryer]

48. David__77, what do you think above the above info?

I think it is a good sign, and if the defections continue as one would hope (a diplomatic solution is always the best solution) and if the rebels can be seen as acting toward one coherent goal (rather than insane idiots driving along a road trying to get themselves killed; and yes I don't think this is a negative thing to say, I've said they were crazy before), then perhaps a real cease fire can really fucking happen!

Haven't been this optimistic in awhile about this whole fucking thing.

[Turborama]

46. Another Gadhafi insider bails/Anxiety Roils Libyan Capital Amid Top-Level Defections

Posted in LBN but getting hammered by the unreccers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4796220

Why any self respecting DUer would unrec news about defections from a brutal dictator is beyond me.

[joshcryer]

47. Wow, Gaddafi's first pick to the UN after the other UN guy defected. That's almost as bad.

And I gave it a rec. :hi:

Don't worry about "them."

[Turborama]

53. Britain in ("urgent") talks with 10 more (senior) Gaddafi aides

New one in LBN: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4796237

Thanks a lot for the rec, man.

:hi:

[joshcryer]

54. As always.

:hug:

Can't get enough recs for Libya news.

[MedleyMisty]

95. Something very ugly has emerged this month

I don't know what to think about it. And it's not just right wing trolls. There are many DUers who used to be good, who used to be intelligent, who used to be reasonable, who used to not be gullible and who used to know better than to swallow propaganda, who are taking Gaddafi's side here.

I can't understand it. I can't. And it disappoints me and enrages me and makes me seriously doubt if the human species is worth saving. The Western parts of it, anyway - I think the people of Africa are showing that they are human, that they are worth saving. Americans, though - when did even good Americans become so full of hate and fear and a desire to see Libyans die? When did life become so cheap to them? When it's the lives of poor brown people half a world away?

Ah, but those lives have always been cheap.

I wonder if that is what has emerged - if the mask of "progress" fell off and we're seeing how deep racism and colonialism go.

[joshcryer]

97. I can spot a toxic personality a mile away.

DU spent the majority of its existence being anti-American/anti-Bush. Now that Bush is gone the anti-Americanism goes toward being anti-Obama.

Can't wait to be writing on DU from a cafe in Benghazi in a couple of years. :hi:

And the primaries + elections should be fun, I'll be defending Obama with the best of 'em! (And this despite being a Hillary defender in '08, I only do it because I have a "defend the weak" personality, that's the whole point of these Libya posts!)

[Waiting For Everyman]

100. I see it too

from some who really shock me.

I think people everywhere have the same dynamics though. The Arab world will have the same problems once they start grappling with democracy. It's the "battle for hearts and minds" then. We need to let their newfound freedom re-inspire us, and they need to learn from our experience/mistakes/struggles, not to fall in the same potholes. Hopefully, we all will do that.

And as for the sticks-in-the-mud...

We're marchin' on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678


From Arab Spring to Human Spring.

http://youtu.be/JysPpBhKQo0

[defendandprotect]

103. Think what happened is the DIVIDE between those watching these threads ....

and those who didn't! --

More information should have been cross-posted on GD to keep them up to date --

and not only the lack of info, but then after the NFZ was decided, it looks like

trolls came in to take Gaddafi's side -- and somehow this disinformation is being

believed!!

[Turborama]

105. I think you're correct

I also think your opinion carries a lot of weight here as I remember you have been one of the most consistent and vehement opponents on DU to the continued conflicts in Afghanistan.

[joshcryer]

49. East Libya rebels organize, head towards oil town

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-libya-east-idUSTRE7301AG20110401">East Libya rebels organize, head towards oil town
(Reuters) - Rebels moved rockets and other equipment forward toward Brega on Friday, seeking to retake the oil town and regain momentum against better equipped forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi.

At a checkpoint on the outskirts of the strategic eastern town of Ajdabiyah, rebels prevented unarmed Libyans seeking to join battle from going beyond the town's boundaries toward Brega, where rebels and Gaddafi's troops fought on Thursday.

Rebels said neither side could claim control of Brega, one of a string of oil towns along the coast that have been taken and retaken several times by each side in recent weeks. Rebels, even helped by Western air strikes, have failed to hold gains.

"Some military have come and strengthened the rebel lines. God willing, they will begin with Ajdabiyah and go to Brega and Ras Lanuf," said Khaled al-Farjani, a captain in the Libyan air force who is now fighting with the rebels.

[joshcryer]

50. Economist argues the coalition wants to halt loyalists, help Misrata, and encourage a way out

1022: What can we discern from the fighting in Libya? The Economist argues the only emerging pattern is one of wildly see-sawing fortunes, as coastal towns change hands with almost metronomic regularity. In a leader this week, the paper argues the coalition's priorities are to halt the advance of loyalist troops, bring some relief to the civilians in Misrata and encourage members of the regime to start looking for a way out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

Interesting take, to say the least. Too "pro coalition" for some but it does appear to be the best solution, avoiding a long protracted (6+ month) battle between east and west.

[joshcryer]

51. The colonel is not beaten yet

http://www.economist.com/node/18488264">The colonel is not beaten yet
AFTER rebel forces retook Ajdabiya and the oil-refining towns of Ras Lanuf and Brega, it seemed that Muammar Qaddafi’s troops might crumble fast in the face of Western air attacks. But that hope was fleeting. At a hastily assembled conference in London on March 29th, attended by nearly 40 delegations representing the international coalition that is enforcing UN Security Resolution 1973, the turn of events on the ground saw Libyan government forces dramatically regain the initiative. And that prompted a more sober assessment of the rebels’ progress.

A day earlier General Carter Ham, the American officer who was running operations in Libya until NATO assumed command, had presciently warned: “The regime still vastly overmatches opposition forces militarily. The regime possesses the capability to roll them back very quickly. Coalition air power is the major reason that has not happened.” The general added that apart from some “localised wavering” there had so far been only a few cases of military or government officials defecting to the opposition.

For a time, it looked as if a pattern had been established. Allied air power would take out the government’s tanks, artillery and other heavy weapons, shell-shocked loyalist soldiers would flee and the ragtag army of rebels toting AK-47s and captured RPGs would surge forward into the vacuum, driving hell-for-leather to the next town along the coast road in a motley cavalcade of elderly cars and pickup trucks.

Article in question.

[joshcryer]

55. Anxiety Roils Libyan Capital Amid Top-Level Defections

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/world/africa/02libya.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss">Anxiety Roils Libyan Capital Amid Top-Level Defections
TRIPOLI, Libya — Anxiety seized the Qaddafi government on Thursday over the second defection in two days of a senior official close to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, stirring talk of others to follow and a crackdown to stop them. Outside Benghazi, Libya, opposition supporters cheered as rocket launchers headed to the front near Brega on Thursday, a day of inconclusive fighting in the east. More Photos »

And, on Friday British news reports on the BBC and in The Guardian newspaper said Mohammed Ismail, a senior aide to one of Colonel Qaddafi’s sons, had traveled to London for talks with British officials in recent days. But there was no immediate confirmation of those reports. A Foreign Office spokesman, who spoke in return for anonymity under departmental procedures, said: “We are not going to provide a running commentary on our contact with Libyan officials.”

As rebels challenging pro-Qaddafi forces struggled to regroup around the oil port of Brega, and the roar of allied warplanes was heard again over the capital, residents reacted in shock at the defection of Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, a close ally of Colonel Qaddafi’s since the early days of the revolution, who once earned the nickname “envoy of death” for his role in the assassinations of earlier Libyan defectors.

And then came the defection to Egypt of another senior official, Ali Abdussalam el-Treki, a former foreign minister and a former United Nations ambassador who had worked closely with Colonel Qaddafi for decades.

[joshcryer]

56. About those marines: Off the coast of Libya, aboard America's floating fortress

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/01/aboard-uss-kearsarge-off-libya">Off the coast of Libya, aboard America's floating fortress
At dawn, the PA crackles into life and a country and western tune is broadcast to all decks, followed by an announcement urging marines on board to "get their game on" and sign up for the basketball tournament being held in the cavernous hangar where mechanics are toiling over a half-aircraft, half-helicopter that has flown straight out of a science-fiction film.

Few have suggested that the United States send the marines in to tackle Muammar Gaddafi and hand Libya to the rebels. Until now, knocking out the colonel's tanks from the skies and letting the insurgents do the rest has been the strategy. But if the idea did come up, there is a floating war machine quietly sitting off the Libyan coast loaded with 1,000 marines, armed to the teeth and ready for action. And the USS Kearsarge, their home for the last seven months, is packed with enough hardware to invade Luxembourg and be back before lights out.

But right now, as coalition aircraft tear apart Libyan targets 150 miles away, the major concern on the 40,000-tonne assault ship appears to be getting work-out time on the treadmills and convincing the 40% of the crew who smoke, and the other 18% who chew tobacco, to quit. "Many of us have newborns we haven't met at home, and we should go home smoke-free," Lt Christopher Parks, the ship's very own tobacco cessation officer, warned the crew last week in a newsletter.

[defendandprotect]

104. LIBYA HURRA -- !!! Many DU'ers seem to think the Marines have invaded Libya ... on ground -- !!

Tried to do what I could to straighten it out in GD -- we'll see --

but think we have to SHARE much more info with GD cause trolls are being

effective!!

[joshcryer]

57. Special report: The West's unwanted war in Libya

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-libya-decisions-idUSTRE73011H20110401">Special report: The West's unwanted war in Libya
(Reuters) - It is a war that Barack Obama didn't want, David Cameron didn't need, Angela Merkel couldn't cope with and Silvio Berlusconi dreaded.

Only Nicolas Sarkozy saw the popular revolt that began in Libya on February 15 as an opportunity for political and diplomatic redemption. Whether the French president's energetic leadership of an international coalition to protect the Libyan people from Muammar Gaddafi will be enough to revive his sagging domestic fortunes in next year's election is highly uncertain. But by pushing for military strikes that he hopes might repair France's reputation in the Arab world, Sarkozy helped shape what type of war it would be. The road to Western military intervention was paved with mutual suspicion, fears of another quagmire in a Muslim country and doubts about the largely unknown ragtag Libyan opposition with which the West has thrown in its lot.

That will make it harder to hold together an uneasy coalition of Americans, Europeans and Arabs, the longer Gaddafi holds out. Almost two weeks into the air campaign, Western policymakers fret about the risk of a stray bomb hitting a hospital or an orphanage, or of the conflict sliding into a prolonged stalemate.

There is no doubt the outcome in Tripoli will have a bearing on the fate of the popular movement for change across the Arab world. But because this war was born in Paris it will also have consequences for Europe.

I've had this set aside to post for part 2, but I guess it won't hurt to double post it. It's a long and interesting essay. Yes, it's probably pro-west because it deflects, but whatever.

[joshcryer]

58. Military no cure for Libya crisis: German minister

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-germany-libya-idUSTRE73013Z20110401">Military no cure for Libya crisis: German minister
(Reuters) - The crisis in Libya cannot be resolved militarily, Germany's foreign minister said in Beijing Friday, calling for efforts for a political solution for the oil-rich North African nation.

Germany broke ranks with the United States, France and Britain and joined China, Russia, India and Brazil in abstaining on a United Nations vote authorizing the use of force to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya and protect civilians.

"The Libyan situation cannot be resolved by military means," Guido Westerwelle told reporters after meeting his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi, according to a pool report.

[joshcryer]

59. Libyan Defector Moussa Koussa Invited to Royal Wedding (April 1st humor)

http://www.londonnet.co.uk/news/2011/mar/libyan-defector-moussa-koussa-invited-royal-wedding.html">Libyan Defector Moussa Koussa Invited to Royal Wedding
PRINCE WILLIAM and Kate Middleton are to invite Libyan defector Moussa Koussa to their upcoming wedding, it has emerged.

Koussa, still officially the Libyan Foreign Minister, flew to London this week and is thought to have agreed to trade secrets about his boss, Colonel Gaddafi, in exchange for a berth at the prestigious marriage to be held on 29 April at Westminster Abbey.

"Given the security operation already planned for the royal wedding, Moussa Koussa will be as safe in the Abbey as anywhere else," said a government source.

Koussa has spent two days in debriefing sessions with MI6, from where details of the wedding deal have been relayed.

[joshcryer]

60. 100,000s of Yemenis arrive at protest squares in 15 governorates as anti-riot forces take positions

@SultanAlQassemi
Sultan Al Qassemi
Al Jazeera: 100,000s of Yemenis arrive at protest squares in 15 governorates as anti-riot forces take positions by Sanaa Presidential Palace
16 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/SultanAlQassemi/status/53752141315186688

[joshcryer]

61. For some context, Saleh said he won't step down until 2012, clearly unacceptable.

[Turborama]

62. Live news conference from Benghazi now. Watch here --->

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[joshcryer]

63. Thanks Turbo.

Don't always have AJE on.

[joshcryer]

64. "We handed over over 200 Gaddafi fighters to relatives in the east, they are not our enemy."

[joshcryer]

65. "Misrata represents a tragic situation."

[joshcryer]

66. "Over 42 Gaddafi fighters were captured and handed over."

[joshcryer]

67. "Back to their families."

[joshcryer]

68. " Today we acknowledge contacting the red cross, to check conditions of POWs."

[joshcryer]

69. "We have no problem with prisoner exchange."

[joshcryer]

70. "Know that Gaddafi's regime has been kidnapping people."

[joshcryer]

71. "The cease fire: we have no objection to a cease fire, provided the Libyan people and western..."

[joshcryer]

72. "...cities will have the freedom to express their views."

[joshcryer]

73. "This can be achieved by forcing out mercenaries / snipers from those cities."

[joshcryer]

74. "And also the forces in those cities. Giving the people the freedom to express their opinions."

[joshcryer]

75. "At that point you will see how the Libyan people want their freedom."

[joshcryer]

76. "If there is no cease fire the revolutionaries will march toward them."

[joshcryer]

77. "The main target is to break the siege on these cities."

[joshcryer]

78. "Rest assured that the women are our sisters and our mothers."

[joshcryer]

79. "We shall come above any argument that those marching on you are assulting you, but to rescue."

[joshcryer]

80. "Our actions are ethical and moral. We feel ashamed to say someone is a liar."

[joshcryer]

81. "You are our fellow Libyans, our fellow citizens."

[joshcryer]

82. "Our main goal is to break the siege around you. This will take place if there is no cease fire."

[joshcryer]

83. "If cease fire is observed freedom will be acquired via your demands for freedom."

[joshcryer]

84. "Those revolutionaries in the west will be rewarded by a triumph, you will get your freedom."

[joshcryer]

85. "The goal is to restore Libya and its capital, Tripoli."

[joshcryer]

86. "Thank you" now, not worth transcribing.

[Turborama]

87. Thanks for the transcription, man. Q&A Now.

[joshcryer]

89. Yeah, didn't want to do it in real time, would've destroyed my brain. :P

[Turborama]

91. Another press conference has just started....

[joshcryer]

92. Damn! What was it? I had to take a shower.

Smelled like an ashtray (haven't slept in 24+ hours, and got 12 hours ahead of me before I can sleep).

[Turborama]

96. I'm not sure, TBH. At the top of the hour they cut away and went on with the headlines.

So you didn't miss any more than I did.

Maybe there'll be an article about it later...?

I'm on 2 to 3 hours sleep per night these days, so I can relate. I sincerely hope your job isn't suffering because of it, though. :pals:

[joshcryer]

88. Q&A here:

Q: Will you be visiting Tripoli? It is clear that the military action cannot tip the balance. And are you carrying any specific message?

A: Yesterday I visited Tripoli, and I left in the evening, to Benghazi. Yesterday I met with the sec of congress, and I requested them clearly and directly to observe the resolution of the UN. The resolution addresses halting aggression and protecting civilians. We directly and thoroughly examined the areas, I requested that the siege be removed from the towns and cities. I asked for them to respect all the aspirations of the people. We discussed everything including the cease fire.

Q: about something I missed, about what they did in Tripoli I think and about UN resolution.

Envoy: tells Tripoli people to follow UN guidelines (not the INC guy, different guy, UN envoy, both he and the INC guy went to Tripoli yesterday).

A: To answer the same question, we are fully commited to cease fire and R2P, and providing the Libyan people the ability to decide their future. However, the resolutions handed down more than one month, and Gaddafi did not comply with these resolutions at all, to provide the Libyan people with the ability to express their views. If Gaddafi continues to do this, we ask for arms to confront this malicious activity in a more balanced manner.

Q: Is your mission intermedatory or did you carry any conditions to the council?

A: I mentioned the key parts of the resolution of the UN and we want them implemented. True cease fire, this is the key demand (Gaddafi is laying siege to cities, thus no real cease fire- my words), each party is claiming to observe if the other party observes, our main goal now is to realize lasting cease fire to hold. We need a viable lasting cease fire.

We have conditions for the cease fire. If it is implemented it will mean a Libya that is unacceptable. Our condition for the cease fire is from within and around cities, the siege laid on these towns must be lifted. At that point the world will see how these cities have been treated, and the people will celebrate. If the cease fire is not respected this way, then the status quo will be maintained and that will only result in a divided Libya.

Q: Are you asking for a cease fire because you are afraid you are losing ground and are you confident in your military leadership?

A: We have total faith in our troops in our fighters we are also having total faith in the confidence of the people of Libya. Our key and only demand is the departure of Gaddafi and his family from the country. We want the cease fire to be implemented. I have made it clear that the cease fire comes as compliance with the UN resolution, and to end the bloodshed, provided that Gaddafi's men leave the besieged towns.

[joshcryer]

90. Basic overview: siege on cities is not respecting cease fire, therefore, it must stop.

[joshcryer]

93. A reporter's account of a grim detention in Libya

http://www.facebook.com/notes/afp-news-agency-agence-france-presse/a-reporters-account-of-a-grim-detention-in-libya/164528176934176">A reporter's account of a grim detention in Libya
Hunched over in the front passenger seat of our car, I stared as the supercharged Toyota loomed up in the rear view mirror, effortlessly closing the gap between us even after our driver pushed the Kia saloon to 160 kilometres per hour.

"Yalla, yalla! Drive, drive!" we screamed, as our pursuers flashed their headlights in warning. Underneath the mirror was etched the standard warning: "Objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear.

So it proved. As aimed rounds sliced into the bodywork of our utterly outmatched car, we gave up the race, begging our Libyan driver to pull over, hoping that if we surrendered we would not be killed in cold blood.

As we rolled to a stop, the vehicle swerved alongside us and its crew fired two more bursts of automatic fire, shooting out two tires and peppering the engine compartment with 7.62 mm Kalashnikov rounds.

[joshcryer]

94. Libya: Coalition air strike 'killed seven civilians'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12931731">Libya: Coalition air strike 'killed seven civilians'
Seven civilians died and 25 were hurt in a coalition air strike on a pro-Gaddafi convoy in a rebel-held part of Libya, a doctor there has told the BBC.

Dr Suleiman Refardi said Wednesday's raid happened in the village of Zawia el Argobe, 15km (9 miles) from Brega.

The strike hit a truck carrying ammunition, but the resulting explosion destroyed two nearby homes.

All the dead were between the ages of 12 and 20, Dr Refardi said. Nato says it is investigating the claim.

[joshcryer]

98. Part 2 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x787986