UN workers were killed because of some asshole in Florida

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Reports: U.N. Workers Killed During Protest Of Quran Burning


The burning of a Quran by members of a small church in Florida last month apparently sparked a protest that turned deadly today in Mazar-i-Sharif, Afghanistan, The Associated Press and other news outlets report.

According to the AP "an Afghan official says seven people have been killed ... when a Quran burning protest turned violent."

Reuters reports that 8 people were killed and that an "Afghan police spokesman" says two of the victims were beheaded.

The BBC says "protesters shouted 'Death to the USA, Death to Israel' after Friday prayers, and went on to attack the U.N. compound."


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/01/135039030/reports-u-n-workers-killed-in-afghanistan-during-protest-of-quran-burning

[Buzz Clik]

1. this will be seen as a validation in the eyes of these idiots

"See? We told you Islamists were violent!!!!111"

[Zywiec]

2. Yeah, the protesters bear no responsibility for their actions

:eyes:

[cali]

3. certainly he bears some responsiblity. the fuckwads that did this bear more.

I will NEVER fucking excuse murderous mobs.

[rfranklin]

9. It's a circle jerk of religious fanatics...

giving each other a hand in their homicidal fantasies.

[cali]

10. burning the koran- provocative, hateful and stupid as it is, is not the equivalent

of slaughtering 10 U.N. workers.

[rfranklin]

11. That's okay, we've slaughtered plenty of Muslims...

in Iraq and Afghanistan. The vast majority were innocent bystanders.

[cali]

21. we're talking about acts inspired by religion here

and we're talking about mobs going after anyone they can lay their hands on. That's not excusing our excursions into Iraq or Afghanistan, but pointing out some salient differences. Furthermore, as far as I know, it wasn't Americans who were killed.

[Bragi]

19. Thanks for that clarity

I fear clarity may be in short supply as this discussion continues.

[Yo_Mama]

44. Really?

I'm sort of hoping this is an April Fool's joke gone viral. If so, it is the sickest one of which I have ever heard.

But if this did happen, it merely proves that the Koran burner's worry was anything but a fantasy.

It poses a huge question to those in the US who support our system of free speech. I don't like types of protest using symbols that others hold dear. And I would never burn the US flag, for instance. But I HAVE always defended the right of others to do so. IMO I honor the gift - the opportunity - given to us by those who did die for that flag by defending the right of others to burn it.

I have Muslim friends. They certainly would not kill anyone because someone burned the Koran.

How can anyone see the deaths of those UN people as stemming from the deed of some completely unrelated Koran burner far away? I'd be a lot more suspicious about the recent stories regarding the Aghan "kill" photos, myself. Now that would feed any mob, although it would still be an awful idiocy to go ahead and massacre some people who had nothing to do with it.

In any case, if some Muslims really want to be able to control what the rest of the world says and does about anything they decide is "their" thing (rather than real crimes), then they are rabid nutcases doomed to die an ignominious death in the dustbin of history. And they'll deserve it. They will deserve no respect, no sorrow except at the loss of the human beings they could have been, no compassion for their own tortured worldview. Their tragedy would be self-inflicted. The rest of the Islam world will be able to evolve normally, and life will go on.

The only thing - and I do mean the ONLY thing - that could possibly make me burn a Koran is if our government decided that doing so must be banned because it would spark such incidents.

Think about it. Our entire way of life is grounded on open debate, the right fully and freely criticize, and the ability to question beliefs.





And

[Bragi]

46. We need to defend and explain First Amendment rights

You wrote: The only thing - and I do mean the ONLY thing - that could possibly make me burn a Koran is if our government decided that doing so must be banned because it would spark such incidents.

Truth is, the government could not enact such a ban as it would violate the First Amendment.

Which means there is now a desperate need to defend and explain free speech and what it means.

I just posted some thoughts on this subject here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x789983

[Yo_Mama]

49. I agree they couldn't under the law as the precedents now stand

But Kagan doesn't agree and Breyer (admittedly he is now retired) at the time of the original flap that indicated he thought it was marginal.

The best precedent now is the flag-burning case. That's very important.

Breyer brought up the "yelling fire in a crowded theater thing". Holder implied that this was DoJ's view. Later he retracted that.

Congratulations to you for your earlier remarks. I hadn't even heard that a Koran had been burned.

However the government making it clear that our laws don't permit banning such deeds won't help at all. It didn't help in the Dane flap. It won't help here. Some Muslims truly believe that it is a violation of their human rights to allow anybody to criticize the Koran or Muhammed. They've written it into UN human rights declarations and they are not going to back off.

But I don't believe that some of the laws in the Koran are right, and I think if you can't criticize those laws you are an insane society. So there is no compromise on this point for me.

Homosexuals shouldn't be stoned, women having sex out of marriage shouldn't be stoned, the testimony of women and men should have equal weight in a court of law - those things violate their beliefs. And to criticize those things is to cast a slur on the Koran and Muhammed.

I still think the Koran-burning is wrong. I think the beliefs should be criticized as beliefs, the laws should be criticized as laws, etc. But that won't make a difference. The truth is that a society that has blasphemy laws is by our standards a crazy society, and by their standards the only sane and decent society. And I think we're right and they're wrong. A lot of Muslims do too, but of course they get whacked like anyone else if they say it anywhere they can be reached by these people.

[Bragi]

50. Great post. Thanks. /nt

[Old Troop]

58. Very well said

[CanonRay]

54. Perfectly said, damn all religious zealots.

[Taverner]

4. All of this, every single bit, happened because of RELIGION

"Oh but Islam is a religion of PEACE!"

"Oh but Christianity is a religion of PEACE!"

Nope and nope

Fuck religion - it's deadly

[notesdev]

5. blame the media

it's the media that turned an obscure, insignificant crank into an instrument to provoke global religious conflict. On his own, nobody would have ever heard of Terry whashisface.

[Bragi]

20. Quite the opposite

I've been following this ass clown since his first brush with fame, and the fact is that US media has done its very best to shut this guy down.

I do not think anyone has been well served by this self-censorship of media.

The story has spread well beyond the US by others, resulting in today's tragedy, while Americans have remained ignorant of what was happening.

Accurate but critical coverage (i.e. media doing their job) would have been much more useful.

[notesdev]

23. Are you joking?

How much publicity would this guy have gotten without the industrial media conglomerates advancing his message?

It wasn't even newsworthy (just another angry guy with a chip on his shoulder). Without the US media manufacturing this as a news-reportable event from whole cloth, you and I and everyone else would never have heard of the guy.

Don't be so easily fooled by the distractions that are purposely run in front of your nose to distract from the serious issues of the day.

[Bragi]

24. Sorry, but I have been following this closely

The Western media shut down on this guy last September after the administration officially decalred him an idiot. There was almost ZERO coverage of his Quran trial.

I do believe any amount of research will bear out that out.

Whipping the media on this is whipping the wrong horse, and a distraction from what is actually going down here, which is this:

Jones idiocy is not being promoted or featured in US media, it is being promoted by others elsewhere for political reasons.

[Thunderstruck]

30. Our media had satellite trucks and cameras pointed right at this guy tin-shack church

for days and days.

Don't even try it.

[Bragi]

37. I followed this very closely

Yes, there was an enormous amount of media generated in September when he first threatened to burn a Quran, especially after the White House got involved.

However, his March stunt was virtually blacked out by the MSM. His invitation and ban in the UK has also been largely blacked out by the MSM.

All of which means that word of this burning has been spread by other sources.

I believe that research will bear that out.

[Bragi]

39. There are two Jones' incidents, right?

Are you speaking about the September Jones fiasco? I agree there was an enormous amount of media generated in September when he first threatened to burn a Quran, especially after the White House got involved.

However, his latest stunt in March was virtually blacked out by the MSM. Also, his recent invitation to, and ban from, the UK has also been largely blacked out by the MSM.

All of which means that word of this burning has been spread by other sources.

I believe that research will bear that out.

[Old Troop]

59. Wow. Am I correct in believing that these poor benighted heathens

who killed the UN workers were unable to stop themselves because 1 idiot in the US burned a Koran and the corporate media covered it?

[brendan120678]

6. Seems to me the assholes in Afghanistan are to blame....

they're the ones who did the killing.

[SpiralHawk]

15. How many of their weddings got bombed to smithereens by Christian Crusaders?

They are seething with pain and anger at all the 'collateral' damage to their civilian population since AWOL Bush sent the invading crusaders in. The RepubliClown who burned their Holy Book rubbed crusader crap in their faces. That does not justify mob murder. But it does explain it.

[fascisthunter]

7. wow... this post brought out the ignored crowd

:evilgrin:

[SkyDaddy7]

8. You CAN'T just blame the Fla. Pastor!!

Both sides are psychotic idiots!!!

Oh yeah, and the Press for giving the idiot in Florida media time!

It is kinda like the media coverage of 20 people at a Tea Bagger Rally yesterday...The press was all over it!! WHY?

[Shagbark Hickory]

16. YOu hit it on the head. No airtime, no problem.

[Bragi]

22. What if the Islamists choose to publicize this kind of thing?

Thing is, Jones' stunt was virtually blacked out of the US and Western media, who self-censored themselves. The murderers learned of Jones stunt through other sources.

[Shagbark Hickory]

25. Blacked out? Are you saying he actually burned the quarans?

[Bragi]

27. After the "Trial" the Quran was burned

It was a few weeks back. Jones didn't actually light it, another preacher did as Jones looked on from his pulpit.

The video is on YouTube (or was last time I looked.)

Most media declined to give the event any coverage. Word has obviously been spread by others.

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. WEll if that's all it takes to get people killed then I guess people should GTFO afganistan.

[slackmaster]

36. I don't think it's legitimate to blame the pastor at all

He didn't hurt anyone.

[Bragi]

40. He was also exercising his legal right to free spech

He's an idiot, but he still has First Amendment rights.

This includes the right to engage in offensive speech.

[SkyDaddy7]

51. I do agree with you but...

The Pastor knows how bad burning the Quran is to them. He knows that many in the Islamic world are barely educated if at all & literally live centuries behind the West especially in terms of how they view religion...So it would be like burning a Bible in 17th Century Europe...Think how that would have went over?

So, I do fault the Pastor a bit for causing the unrest but the blame for the bloodshed is on the hands of those who did the killing!

[slackmaster]

52. The irony, from my POV, is that the actions of those ignorant Muslims supported the pastor's point

That the Islamic world is a backward and inherently inferior culture.

[SkyDaddy7]

53. Yes, I do agree...

It is like trying to make a child angry or upset & the Pastor knows this & that is why he did it. My guess this will make him feel a sense of power & he will probably do something even more over the top just to watch the reaction...This is why I partly blame the Pastor & without a doubt the Press for giving him air time! The press as well knows if they cover the Pastor acting like a bully child then they will also be able to cover the childish reaction that follows.

I guarantee you this Pastor will be on ever media channel you could watch for the next few days! It is disgusting if you ask me.

[StarlightGold]

12. I completely

blame the killers. There will always be assholes in the world,(like the pastor) but to excuse the murders who carried this out is garbage. THEY need to control their rage and act like adults.

[Quantess]

33. Well, so do I, and so does everyone (I hope)

But, everyone warned the Florida pastor about what would happen if they burned a Quran, and they did it anyway. So, they are not completely innocent.

[Yo_Mama]

45. That would be the best reason to do it

Judaism holds it hugely important to make clear distinctions. Christianity is sort of a Jewish sect.

The claimed fact that some set of persons would attack another set of persons and kill them as a result of a third party's desecration of a sacred symbol shows that there is some sort of meaningful difference between the ideas of people in the west and the mob.

Btw, according to the Daily Mail it was another pastor who burned the Koran, not the first guy. As bizarre as it sounds, the Koran burning could only be a bad deed if such a response did not occur. The idea of doing it in the first place, according to the first guy, was to demonstrate that Islam was not a religion of G_d, but of the devil.

I still don't think the story is right. It smells to high heaven. But given the first pastor's theories, in fact if this DID happen for the reasons now stated, it would mean that his intention was right.

[davidthegnome]

64. His intention was right?

He may have had the right to burn a book - that doesn't make him any less of an asshole for doing so. This imbecile was warned, repeatedly, what the result of his actions would be.

Let's look at it from another angle. Say a group of Muslims in Afghanistan gathered together in a media promoted event and burned a bible or three. Now this information reaches the West - including our troops in Afghanistan. Do you think there wouldn't be a reaction? You'd be wrong - there will always be people willing to kill for the sake of their religious symbols, because these things mean a great deal to them. No, it's not right, it's moronic and always will be, but it is reality.

This act demonstrates nothing but that some people are fools.

His intention was moronic and intentionally provocative. Don't step on a hornet's nest. Don't put your hand in a fire. These are simple concepts.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Idiots on both sides of the pond.

[MNBrewer]

14. Religion poisons everything

[Billy Burnett]

17. Another case of ...

... "my religion is better than your religion". http://www.neilrogers.com/sounds/bonr19982/46.mp3

:crazy:

[JohnnyRingo]

18. Religious nuts at both ends of the extreme.

The nut who burned the Quran, and the kooks who were so offended they killed for it.
If someone burned a Bible, and a group decided to react with violence (someone would) it'd be like viewing a photographic negative of the same event to me.

All the sane people live somewhere in between the edges of that picture.

[Quantess]

29. I almost completely agree with you, except....

the part about burning a bible. That typically does not make christians go on a violent rampage.

[XOKCowboy]

56. Well said...

Saves me from posting.

[FSogol]

26. Can we send Terry Jones to Afghanistan to discuss this with them?

Would that be wrong? :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

31. Who ever said religion was good for mental health -- ????

[Cali_Democrat]

32. Thanks Terry

:(

[slackmaster]

34. They were killed because some religious wackos take themselves WAY too seriously

Not because of someone in the USA exercising the right to free expression.

Unrec.

[Bragi]

41. I agree (with a rec) /nt

[Dogtown]

42. Rec

Don't let your religious bias cloud your thinking.

[Glassunion]

35. How many UN workers were killed when copies of the bible were burned in Israel?

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-05-28/world/bible.burning_1_messianic-jews-deputy-mayor-israeli-radio-and-television?_s=PM:WORLD

Or when our own military did the same?
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/

Or when a church in NC decided they were going to burn bibles?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6346662/North-Carolina-church-plans-Halloween-Bible-burning.html

[AngryAmish]

38. No they were not

They were killed because some nutters decided that killing them would be an appropriate response.

[booley]

43. assholes leading assholes

So some asshole in America threatens to burn korans which prompts some assholes in Afghanistan to kill 7 people who had nothing to do with the previous asshole which will reinforce the prejudices of assholes in the west that Muslims are violently insane.

And thus the great cycle of stupid assholery is complete.

[thewiseguy]

47. More like douchebag and asshole protesters killed UN workers for something another douchebag did

[Odious justice]

48. Hum. I would of thought they would be more upset about the murder

of their citizens, the torture, and the whole "occupation" thingy. Also pretty sure he never actually burned those Qurans ........

[SpartanDem]

55. It's not his fault so many Muslims act like brats

Jones is no doubt an asshole. But the fact is Muslims are much more willing to kill over real or peceived religious insults these are the smae people that wanted someone killed over a cartoon. I know the vast vast majority of Muslims don't act this way, but compared to other major religons you don't see this level of violence committed in the name of the religion. Christans certainly committ violence in the name of their religous views, we saw that with the killing of the abortion doctor in Kansas, but it pales in comparison to mass riots in the streets that result in public beheadings.

[WatsonT]

57. No they weren't

the blame falls 100% on the religious fanatics who committed the murders.

[Hannah Bell]

60. because shouts of "death to the usa" in an occupied country have something to do

with some american preacher burning korans last month?

i call bullshit.

just because npr & ap say so doesn't make it so.

[ReggieVeggie]

61. where is the confirmation these people rioted because of the quran burning?

maybe it was a general anti-western rage

[dimbear]

62. Blaming the pastor is like blaming someone who gives a 4 year old a loaded 45.

Second amendment, people!

[Taitertots]

63. UN workers were killed because of radical islam

I refuse to hold my rights subject to the whims of the most insane people in the world (radical islam). If radical muslims killed UN workers it was because their religion (radical islam) is the problem.

[Quantess]

65. Yes, thank you.

Agreed.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. No, they were killed because of some crazy, religion-drunk homicidal fuckheads. nt

[darkstar3]

67. No they weren't,

and anyone who says differently is just feeding the UN's reasoning to pass a resolution against blasphemy.

Blasphemy laws help NO ONE.