When we discuss something ugly that some Christian group or

[cali]

some Jewish group did, there isn't an immediate clamor for a disclaimer that other religions are just as bad. When we discuss that regarding Islam, there's inevitably such a clamor. I think that's a double standard. Yes, I understand the fear that Muslims could be impacted negatively by bigotry and I abhor that, but that doesn't mean that a disclaimer that other religions are also bad is either necessary or that it benefits Muslims.

[bluestateguy]

1. I'll give you another example

During the Tuscon memorial service in January, there were Christian prayers recited and a traditional Native American prayer.

On the live DU thread for the memorial service, one poster after another was effusive with praise as to how beautiful and special the Native American prayer was. And yes, it was very nice. Fine. I'm glad it was a part of the service.

But then when the Christian prayers were recited at the service, then Oh boy, here come the catcalls and mockery ("sky fairy" and "mythology" are some of the cracks that I remember from DU posters).

That type of hostility was simply tolerated here, while if such hostility had been shown to the Native American prayer, I'm sure there would have been numerous denunciations of the critics as bigots.

[Tesha]

4. I don't know of anyone who's trying to set polical policy based on...

...Native American beliefs; as a result, it's hard
to get excited about such things.

By contrast, millions of Americans are trying to
force Christian mythology down our throats through
legislative means; such things ought to be inherently
offensive to anyone who believes in the American
Constitution.

Tesha

[apocalypsehow]

14. And right on cue, a charming non-sequitur. Off we go! n/t.

[Tesha]

15. In what way is that a non-sequitur?

Certain religions routinely butt-in to political
discourse; certain religions do not.

I'm sorry if your religion is one of the butt-in-skis.

Tesha

[apocalypsehow]

16. Followed up promptly by an expansion on the non-sequitur, paired with an implication that the poster

opposite has an ulterior motive in pointing out said non-sequitur ("I'm sorry if your religion is one of the butt-in-skis").

So far, so good - sooo predictable.

Next up: the really cool logical fallacies start stretching their legs and getting into the act, while the corresponding thinly-veiled personal attacks continue to amp up a bit more barbed yet, just this side, if barely, of alertable.

I could call this stuff in my sleep.

[Tesha]

17. And you, of course, haven't explained why you feel my comment was a non-sequitur. (NT)

[apocalypsehow]

19. It doesn't have to be explained: the thing speaks for itself, to coin a phrase. And, of course, any

attempt at an "explanation" would simply be met with reams & reams of quibbles, objections, obfuscations, "yes, but" exceptions demanded, all mixed in with a merry batch of ongoing personal attacks, repeated questionings-of-motive(s), and somewhere down the road Mr. Godwin would be on the phone, answering his page on line three.

To put it simply: I have no interest in explaining something to you that you already well know - and if you don't know it, which is highly unlikely, I have no interest in explaining it to you. If the latter is genuinely the case, go look it up - Wikipedia is online and awaiting your typed commands, as we speak. :thumbsup:

In the meantime, I cheerfully encourage you to compose another reply to the OP, one that actually addresses the subject matter addressed. That one, perhaps, will not lapse into such unfortunate territory as a common logical fallacy. :toast:

[11 Bravo]

21. "res ipsa loquitur" You are, of course, correct, but we all know that shitting on Christians ...

ia fine at DU. I've learned to live with it.

[Tesha]

29. I see; you have no substance to support your claim but you'll defend it to my death.

Words mean exactly what you say they mean.

Tesha

[apocalypsehow]

35. To the contrary, as you well know, but, then, now you're just engaging in sheer "last wordism." This

has been a textbook exercise right down the line, to the closing bell. And it brings to mind another Latin phrase:

Quod erat demonstrandum.

And indeed, it has.

[Tesha]

38. QED? I think so too; you can have the last word now. (NT)

[Enthusiast]

31. LOL!

Right on, Tesha!

[uppityperson]

18. seems a possible explanation why, not a non-sequitur.

[apocalypsehow]

20. People are free to believe all sorts of things that are simply not true. So are you. n/t.

[roguevalley]

26. and there we go. Unless you can actually prove that God doesn't

exist then you cannot deny it any more than you can assert that dark matter exists, parallel dimensions and all the other awesome theoreticals in science that I love. I think even Hawkings takes a lot of shit on faith. So there. :)

[apocalypsehow]

27. Uhhh, I'm a Catholic. *Proving* the existence of God is the Protestant's job.

:-)

[Raksha]

40. I guessed that you were a Catholic reading your previous posts.

It's something about the writing style--the brittle, verbose sarcasm and dismissiveness, coupled with the extensive use of Latin phrases. I think that's what the giveaway was anyway.

[Tesha]

30. Didn't your irony-detector explode when you wrote that? It should have! (NT)

[apocalypsehow]

36. No, it shouldn't have, since there was nothing the least bit "ironic" in what was typed.

Merriam-Webster online has an extant definition of the word "irony" available as we speak: I suggest you consult it.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

33. I found Tesha's post HIGHLY relevant.

bluestateguy's post implicitly asks why there's a difference in response to the Christian blessing and the Native American blessing, and Tesha responded to that question.

I tend to agree with her, too.

The reason for the hostile reactions we see here and elsewhere when Christian ceremony/mythology is offered publicly is unlike all other religious groups in the U.S., RightWing style christianity IS being shoved down our throats by false prophets who have inserted themselves into the power structure, endlessly seek to INCREASE their economic and political power, and are trying fascistically to make themselves the State-Religion.

The generalized anger towards the C word, then, comes from disgust and awareness of the danger such evangelical groups pose.

[apocalypsehow]

37. It was relevant to absolutely nothing other than some tangent she wanted to push the conversation

off on, in an attempt redefine the debate on terms more favorable to her ability discredit the thesis of the OP.

It was a textbook non-sequitur, in that precise sense.

"The generalized anger towards the C word, then, comes from disgust and awareness of the danger such evangelical groups pose"

I see. This is called "bigotry" in the strictest definition of the word.

As a simple word substitution will show:

"The generalized anger towards the (put in name of an racial, religious, sexual orientation, or ethnic group), then, comes from disgust and awareness of the danger such (put in the name of an racial, religious, sexual orientation, or ethnic) groups pose."

It is really appalling.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

39. Nope, not impressed by your repeating yourself

which I have already easily refuted.

Notwithstanding your loquaciousness, it is merely sound and fury, signifying nothing.


"More likely than not you are here because I have bested you in some thread debate, and a sense of pitiful frustration at your own shockingly limited intellect in comparison to mine has angered you greatly. You are here hoping to find some "personal" info to attack me with, as is the wont of those on the losing end of internet debates - ridiculing my occupation, my hometown, my marital status, etc. Sucks to be you, huh?"---

ha ha, you're a hoot, man....and yet, at the same time, it's rather sad:

Textbook anger issues, in that precise sense.

[roguevalley]

25. Jesus is not Christianity as practiced by the wankers you are

talking about. I am sick of all of us being lumped together. If all the Muslims aren't assholes, all the Jews/Christians etc aren't either. If you hate Christianity I would respect people better if they just said so. Instead there is all this shit. so sad.

[emilyg]

9. Thank you.

[Tesha]

2. The simple truth is that all religions* are bad.

Some are worse than others, but all are bad as they
all try to teach people to believe things that are
simply not true.

Tesha


* Where "religion" means an organized belief in one
or more supernatural beings who affect human life.
I really have no opinion one way or another on
non-dogmatic religions like Unitarian Universalism.

[MNBrewer]

8. Religion poisons everything

[Pacifist Patriot]

11. Thank you for the *

:toast:

[Tesha]

13. No problem!

Maybe they're out there (somewhere), but I've
yet to meet a fundamentalist dogmatic UU who's
going to insist on pain of death that I accept
their beliefs. ;).

Tesha

[The Magistrate]

3. True, Ma'am

And in many instances, they are awfully strained....

[GodlessBiker]

5. I think the fact one is the overwhelmingly dominant religion in our culture ...

and Islam, at least in this country, is just trying to avoid congressional witch-hunt investigations, justifies the disparate treatment.

The opposite would be the case if we were chatting in Iran.

[JI7]

6. i think some people think it makes them more liberal

like they are enlightened or some shit.

[Zax2me]

7. It gets so bad it is comical at times

I think most do it because in general terms Christianity is often associated with the far right - so you just attack it whenever possible. Even when someone yells Allahu Akbar when blowing up Americans.
Misguided but as I mentioned, so whacko it is comical too read.

[AlabamaLibrul]

10. delete

[devils chaplain]

12. i think some liberals reflexively are more lenient towards Islam because...

Of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" concept being that Islam is so hated by the (Christian) religious right as of late. But to me they're both sides of the same coin -- religious rightwing nuttery, each bolstered by their respective fairy tale book. Neither are friends of liberals or liberalism.

[woo me with science]

22. Wow, that's a breath of fresh air and honesty.

LOL. Go Cali!

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liquorice]

24. It's true. It's very strange the way politics

works sometimes. I've seen people here actually arguing in strident defense of burqas, but if Christians were the ones wearing burqas, they would be considered the most idiotic things on earth.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. The Abrahamic religions are all poisonous.

[Hannah Bell]

34. so are the non-abrahamic ones.