I offended two of my mother's friends last week

[rhiannon55]

I was sitting in a McDonald's inside a Walmart last week, hanging out with my mother and her friends Betty, Bob, and Helen. In small town America, places like this have become gathering places for elderly retired people, so whenever I visit, we spend a couple of hours a day there. As always, Faux News was on the TV, and the pundits were talking about the Wisconsin situation. Betty said she didn't know what was happening to our country, but she didn't like it. I said, "Yeah, there really is a class war going on and it looks like the rich are winning." Well. I might as well have said something disparaging about St Ronnie Raygun, because IT WAS ON.

Betty responded with "Well, this is a capitalist country. People have the right to make and keep as much money as they want, because IT'S THEIR MONEY." I said, "But they often make so much money by exploiting their workers. They don't have a right to HOARD billions of dollars while people starve. People have the right to make a living wage."

At this, Bob piped up, "Everyone 'hoards' money. It's called 'saving'. It's none of our business how much people save. And workers should be happy to have a job at all."

I said, "Walmart is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Waltons make billions more than they could ever spend, while their workers qualify for food stamps. Why is that okay?" Bob said (I couldn't believe my ears) "Walmart workers don't have any skills, so they're already being paid too much."

Betty said something about Obama being a socialist and I responded with "President Obama is NOT a socialist. I WISH he was a socialist. We would all be better off." By now, Betty and Bob were getting up to leave, both noticeably pissed off. Meanwhile, my mom (who can't hear much of anything these days and is bordering on dementia) was busily eating her french fries, and Helen was applauding! As soon as they were gone, Helen said, "Thank you for that! Someone has to stand up to that bunch. I'm sick of how stupid and self-centered they are. They both have Medicare and live on Social Security, but they hate the government--especially President Obama."

I brought this up to my mom later that evening and apologized for pissing off her friends. She just shrugged it off with, "They'll get over it."

This is what we're up against, folks. Extreme ignorance. When poor people defend the behavior of rich people, the propaganda machine is working.

[dkf]

1. People think the Government is a magic money machine.

They don't want to pay taxes but they want to receive benefits.

[brewens]

77. I know a guy with MS. When he did work he was a Teamster.

Now disabled in a wheelchair, he's a total Teabagger. He even has Freedomworks as a like on his Facebook page. In reality, there could be no bigger socialist. Everything he's got, or will ever have, comes directly from socialist organizations or programs. A little help from his church also kicks in, and probably helps him keep believing his Teabaggery.
He recently posted a request for help, because his wheelchair was breaking down, leaving him stuck in bed. Some buddies got it going again. One commented that part of the problem was, he is a few months away from being eligible for an upgrade or replacement. Eligible? As in qualifying for a new one? Could that be part of yet another liberal socialist program?
He's really a nice guy and just doesn't know any better. He was raised Republican and just isn't able to see the reality. I know for a fact he was a good worker and earned his money when he was able to. He just doesn't realize he would never had the chance if not for the unions. He would never have had any quality of life the way he is now without liberals.

[Doremus]

94. The top 10% fit your description quite well. Thanks for summing it up. nt

[northoftheborder]

2. Yep.

[Armstead]

3. Yeah I've had similar experiences, though I usually stop before it gets to the boiling point

It's not just older people, that's what is so baffling and discouraging.

It is hard to fathom anyone who defends a family who inherited about 30 Billion each, and refuse to even live on a measly 5 or 10 Billion to allow thousands of their workers to have a slightly better life....It's nuts.

[knowbody0]

4. your mum sounds like a really kool lady

re the other side, forget about it. they are eternally clueless. I cannot even have a brief conversation with ANY of my neighbors without hearing about that n.... in the white house. some even cried when he won the election. I've accepted we are a very divided country and to find a sense of peace I choose to consider them unevolved and handicapped. that way I can find pity for them.
btw, I really believe we are in the midst of a cleansing period and that extreme contrasts are essential. carry on, comrade!

[rhiannon55]

18. "to find a sense of peace I choose to consider them unevolved and handicapped"

perfect...I'll remember that!

[roguevalley]

5. it isn't ignorance. its bigotry (they have no skills, they get paid too

much) and its hatred. Your mom's friends are assholes. You did good. And hug your mom. I'm sorry she has friends like that. with a kid like you, she must be a good soul. and I'm sorry she has that illness. It sucks. HUGS!

[Sherman A1]

50. Precisely

It is the "I have mine & I don't care about the rest of the world" syndrome. Which is exactly what the Waltons & Kochs & the rest of the 1% want. Keep us fighting for the scraps.

[onlyadream]

57. No skill? REally?

I'll bet you that many hold degrees and are displaced to outsourcing.

[Divernan]

75. In my Census team last summer, all had degrees except the Iraq War vet/college student..

We had 2 Ph.D.s, one from MIT and one from Penn State (fiber optics) who had been laid off, a couple of degreed engineers, a former GS-13 federal employee & a bunch of teachers - all unemployed. Plus one senior citizen, with 3 degrees, whose retirement savings had been wiped out by Bush's farewell to the country - the stock market crash.

The Iraq vet was a wonderful young guy who had been 90% disabled by an IED. His job was disarming IEDs and one blew up in his face.

[LWolf]

6. I do my best not to offend my mom's friends.

They are really important to her, and I don't want her having to defend me to her friends when I leave.

They already know she thinks I walk on water and hold the wisdom of the ages. So I tend to smile noncommittally when talking to her friends, to withhold my thoughts much of the time with her, and to drop them rarely, at just the right place to make her think. Then SHE will take the battle to her friends, as it should be.

[rhiannon55]

17. Honestly, I was surprised by their reaction to my 'class war' comment.

They don't usually talk about politics, at least when I'm there. I didn't set out to offend them, but we were all practically yelling at each other before I knew it. I used to embarrass my mom with my outspoken ways, but dementia seems to protect her from embarrassment these days.

[LWolf]

90. I think the whole nation is more on edge as time goes on.

I have less and less to say, simply because I don't trust myself to stay calm and reasonable.

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. Did you ask how they like their socialist medicare and social security?

[4lbs]

9. There's always a disconnect with those type of people.

They never see MediCare and Social Security as included when they blather "Socialism" and "Too Much Government"

[msongs]

8. tell em they are socialist parasites and should have their SS and medicare taken away lol nt

[Patchuli]

10. That's amazing! They survive on a pittance

which even the GOP want to take from them while defending the richie rich's 'rights' to screw us all?

S-T-U-P-I-D is as stupid does. What will those two do if their SS and Medicare is stripped from them?

[Ikonoklast]

11. Ask Bob if most people can have special legislation passed just for them

in order to 'save' money, like the billionaire class does.


Waltons make money because the government is forcing Bob and his wife to subsidize them with *his* tax money.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Keep offending them. And draw closely to the people who support you.

You need them.

[lonestarnot]

13. Hey, Bob sounds like he's sitting on a wad that he's not particulaly proud of how he came about

getting. Prollee cheated people throughout his life. Fuck you Bob. And Betty the peach, a victim of domestic dominionism should change her name to Bootlicker.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

41. Yeah, either that

or he's deathly afraid he'll outlive his money.

[JVS]

54. Bob's probably piss poor. Otherwise he wouldn't be killing time in a fucking Walmart's Mcdonalds.

[Divernan]

76. Yup - he's not at the bar at the local country club with the GOPers.

[treestar]

14. People like that won't listen anyway

One thing that could confound them with the Wisconsin thing: don't teachers have the right to be paid for what they do?

it's easy after being comfortably retired to declare that younger people are "lucky to have a job at all."

[AndyTiedye]

15. You Can Fool Some of the People All of the Time

[Scuba]

16. Excellent. We should never let their lies go unchecked. n/t

[undeterred]

19. Well, I was in line at the food pantry

where I've heard some pretty stupid conversations in the past, but the one I heard this week was a lot smarter. In the past I've heard people who get medicaid rant against Obama and socialized medicine.

This week, I heard a couple of women telling other women about the Walmart lawsuit and how they needed to spread the word to everyone they knew who had worked there so they could get in on it... and a guy chimed in that he wanted to, and they told him, sorry buddy. And another person said she was going to write to Obama about getting dental insurance in on his plan and saying that his plan didn't go far enough. Basically everything I was hearing was true, and it was nice to see people thinking about things in political terms. In the past I just heard a lot of propaganda being repeated when I was over there. And people were all planning to vote for Kloppenburg.

[Snoutport]

20. My mom told me to stop putting political things on facebook or i might get myself fired

so i toned it down and only put links to the most heinous articles. but my right leaning friends haaaaate it. but, i'm sick of their right wing group messages too so, all's fair!

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. Your mom is the hero of the story.

Sometimes french fries are a good substitute for popcorn.

[elleng]

22. Good to hear about Helen.

What would they have said if you'd mentioned 'their' Medicare and SocSec?

:hi:

[Darth_Kitten]

24. Ah, save that for the NEXT outing!

:hide:

[Darth_Kitten]

23. But you made Helen's day!!

:D

[rhiannon55]

26. I liked that part! Helen had the biggest grin on her face.

Her reaction made MY day!

[bongbong]

84. One of the key points of the entire post!

Your point points towards one of the key facts underlying the political debate in this country. In short, Liberals and liberal-leaning people think they're all alone in their beliefs since they are inundated with right-wing propaganda from every single media outlet (incl NPR) 24x7. As soon as they hear a kindred spirit, they speak up.

[defendandprotect]

25. It's a very tough thing to do with your family --

I just got mine straightened out, when my daughter married into a family

with a father denying Global Warming!!!

And, it's amazing what your own relatives will do to placate other relatives!!!


:evilgrin: Tryin' to keep at it!!



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[BrklynLiberal]

27. They all WANT tickets to the show, but do not want to pay for the tickets!!

...and even worse, if they find out that some people are getting into the show for free or at a discount!!!!

They all have this sense that THEY will be millionaires one day, so they might as well protect the millionaires' interests...even to their own detriment. Ignorant is too kind a word for people like that.

The irony, is of course, as you said, they are on the govt dole, and would be the first in line to collect any govt benefits if times get rough for them. Selfish, self-centered, hypocrites.

[MadMaddie]

28. I don't think it's extreme ignorance it's "Willful Ignorance"!

They know the truth and when their checks end they will scream why didn't anyone protect us? Seems we have heard this story before in history....

[meow2u3]

73. Not to mention culturally-induced ignorance

Someone came up with a new word for its study: agnotology.

It was mentioned on these two web pages:

http://www.wordspy.com/words/agnotology.asp
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/25/moyers_winship_npr/index.html

We need to call in a team of agnotologists to interview these ignoramuses so we can better understand how and why these right-wing ignoramuses (or ignorami, if you prefer) can lie to us--and themselves--with a straight face. I strongly suspect two contributing factors: right-wing hate radio and FOX Noise.

[Moostache]

85. Its the same reason some people avoid doctors when they suspect they are ill.

I have known many people who have honestly said that they would prefer to live in denial with a serious illness rather than face a diagnosis and treatment plan against a grim prognosis - the very clear example is the number of men over 40 who avoid having prostate exams even though they have family histories of cancer or are at risk.

The bottom line is that human beings LOVE to delude themselves and living in a comforting delusion is preferable to facing a daunting truth to 90%+ of the species in one regard or another.

Take religion as another example. I don't care which stripe you put on it, they are basically all the same and they all live on the same principle - people in general prefer to bury their heads than face reality. I am not going to try to get people to agree with me on this, but instead of asking yourself "why can't these duped right wingers SEE the truth?", try asking yourself the same question about prostate cancer or religion and you will have a deeper understanding of the issue.

We are simply not effective at messaging because we do not spend enough time scaring the shit out of people. The right wing noise machine stays on a very simple message and rides that bitch into the ground every day - day in and day out without fail and without countenance of those who stray too far from orthodoxy. "Government IS the problem." THAT is their mantra and behind the Buddhist like devotion to the chant lies the secret of their success - its dog whistle control potential and ability to warp the perception of reality of their "flock". People who say things like "unskilled people should be lucky to have a job" never think beyond the infection of the mantra. They never consider what comes next - incarceration? work camps? "final solutions"? Its all well and good to say those things when under the spell, but the real issue is that its no solution at all. The problem is not the skill level of the people, its the distribution of opportunity (another thing we need to STOP saying is "distribution of 'wealth'" - it makes the pseudo-/faux-Robin Hood mentality of the right take root).

Our basic problem is the accumulation of money and purchased political power at the upper 0.01% of the nation limits the opportunity of everyone else. Wal-Mart uses their political clout and economic might to choke off ALL competition and then still calls itself "capitalist". That's simply not true and the people who NEED to know it never get the message because they are too busy waiting for the next "Breaking News ALERT!!!!".

The left wing and the democrats in general are just not very good at using the really scary results of right wing ideology (bankruptcy, unemployment, frayed or gone social safety nets, depression, bailouts) to scare the fuck out of grandma and grandpa Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security recipients. We need to apparently go back to relearn the lessons of the Depression (starving and desperate old people DYING IN THE STREETS or starving in unheated "homes") before we will have the popular memory that will allow the people to remember once more WHY the republican message is such a Sisyphusian bargain.

The enduring pain of Bush to me is NOT only what he did while in office - it is made far, far worse by watching Obama and the DLC steadfastly piss away the gift-wrapped message changer that was the undeniably disastrous results of the Bush policies. THAT more than the division between ignorant dupes and everyone else is what makes me sad in a soul-crushing way.

[rhiannon55]

89. What an excellent post, Moostache

You should turn it into an OP...lots of fodder for discussion. Denial is alive and well in America today.

[MadMaddie]

91. Yep! I like the new word

I agree with the factors you noted....

[handmade34]

29. so sad

"...the propaganda machine is working."

we must keep presenting the rational facts... if we speak the truth more than they spread the lies and deceptions, maybe we can get through to some of the people...

[Quantess]

30. The peasants of Sherwood Forest were more aware of their situation.

At least they were aware that King John was robbing them. They didn't call Robin Hood a commie socialist for getting back some of their coins.

King John didn't catapult his propaganda, that's why.

[Courtesy Flush]

31. The part about people having the right to make money...

In theory, that sounds great. But they don't just make money the way you an I do. They hire lobbyists to have laws written that funnel our money into their pockets. You and I can't do that. We would not be able to write laws that enrich ourselves, even if we put a referendum on the ballot and everyone voted for it. They wouldn't permit it. Yet super rich people can do it without the public's consent.

Don't get me started!

[gtar100]

48. Not to mention the part about moving jobs overseas so they don't have to

follow our labor laws. They moved all those jobs overseas to pay people pennies on the dollar. They couldn't get away with it here so they took it over there where they could keep the workers out of sight, out of mind. They may think that's all legal because of the way the laws are written today, but in my mind that is stealing. If they are not paying a fair wage that allows someone to earn a "living wage", then they are stealing from the workers.

[boston bean]

32. did they try to murder and behead you and your mother.

sorry.... couldn't stop myself....

[rhiannon55]

33. Huh?

:eyes:

[bobbolink]

34. I hear some of those same comments from Democrats -- "progressives".

Some get posted right here at DU.

[progressoid]

35. "I WISH he was a socialist."

I've used that line a couple times. Always gets an interesting reaction! :evilgrin:

[DeSwiss]

36. K&R

- Some things don't improve because they've changed for the better, as much as they've just died-off......

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. " ~Max Planck

[rhiannon55]

80. That quote is a gem, and so true.

Thanks for sharing it.

[Zambero]

37. Piercing the protective right wing bubble

Your mothers friends probably go for months on end without entering into a discussion that includes a point of view that is contrary to their own. So challenging what they're being fed day in and day out from the RW propaganda machine would probably not set too well, since it's invariably accepted as "truth". People like that would have to be directly impacted by the brutal reality of what the Republicans are ramrodding through state legislatures these days. The cops and firemen in Ohio and other states would be a prime example. Now that they've been targeted and stabbed in the back by the GOP -- who they've supported in previous elections -- a political sea change is occurring and those folks won't be making the same mistake again.

[bigwillq]

38. Sitting in a McDonald's at a Walmart is offensive enough.

:rofl: :P

[keroro gunsou]

40. now now...

sitting in an olive garden inside a wal-mart would be worse. :evilgrin:

[rhiannon55]

83. I know...when I go there I feel kinda icky, but

Walmart has taken over small town America, and the McDonald's inside has become the gathering place for elderly people. I wish they gathered at an independently owned diner, but sadly, there are fewer and fewer of those left. When I'm there, I really 'get' that Walmart is the 'company store' for America, Inc., and McDonald's is the 'company diner'. :-(

[louslobbs]

39. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and we all know what breeds in the minds of the ignorant.

Ignorance should be distinguished from stupidity however, these people seem to suffer from both, and both can lead to "unwise" acts. Also, if important information is available, these types fail to acquire it due to lack of intelligence not realizing its importance, or not understanding it. They are the one's who will and do vote against their own interests. Sad.........and tragic.
Lou

[The Doctor.]

42. "The propaganda machine is working". -Yep.

That's exactly the thing that needs killing.

Thanks for taking a dig at it.

[LLStarks]

43. McDonalds. Inside a Walmart. The horror. nt

[global1]

44. Corporate Welfare - Corporate Entitlements - Corporate Extortion.......

this is the new socialism in America. And guess what - it is destroying us.

[pam4water]

45. If I only had a dine for every time, I've had the conversation ;) OK a dollar /w inflation.

[Tripod]

46. That is a powerful real life story, Thank you Rhiannon 55.

OMG. I hope that every one gets it. Great job on putting the truth out to them!

[davidthegnome]

47. I admire you for standing up for what you believe in

It's not always easy, especially in situations like the one you were in. Remember you're not alone - some of us argue with nitwits like Betty and Bob almost every day. I don't get how they keep voting against their own best interest, but I'll do what I can to help them, all the same.

I wish Obama was a socialist, too. :)

Helen is absolutely right, someone does have to stand up to that bunch. I admire your courage in doing so, even though it wasn't easy.

[customerserviceguy]

49. As you mention in your last sentence

There are too many "Bobs" out there who succumb to the divide and conquer strategy of the Repukes. His remark about the Wal-Mart workers really exemplifies the "you're better than they are" crap that the Rethuglicans sell to older Americans.

Good for you for pissing them off, and even better for your mother for backing you up, and raising you right in the first place!

[B Calm]

51. You did good, BRAVO!!!

[ca3799]

52. Interesting Vanity Fair article on Wealth Inequality (link)

Interesting Vanity Fair article on Wealth Inequality (link)

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105?currentPage=all

[BumRushDaShow]

63. +1,000,000

Wow. Thanks for alerting to this!!!! :hi:

[renate]

79. excellent (and infuriating!) article

Great find!

"The upper 1 percent of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation’s income every year. In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent."

:wow:

"Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office."

[rhiannon55]

88. We need campaign finance reform

But sadly, I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime. Why? The people who get to vote on such things are in the upper 1 percent.

[JVS]

53. It sounds like Helen and your mom don't give a shit about Bob and Betty being offended.

[B Calm]

55. I go out of my way all the time to offend the BASTARDS!

[polichick]

56. Me too - just can't resist!

[jerseyjack]

58. Next time,

remind them that there are bills to be paid and gub'mint expenses. If the Waltons don't pay their fair share, it will be you, Betty, Bob and I paying it. Who can better afford to pay? Betty and Bob, or the Waltons, Koch brothers and so forth?

Focusing on Betty and Bob's self interest will make sense to them and get them off the Fox lying focus of the poor rich.

[WVRICK13]

59. Seniors And Funny Comments

I went to pick up my 88 year old mother at the beauty parlor one Friday and heard her telling another older woman, "if you are so opposed to the government in your health care and socialism you need to call Washington and have them take you off Medicare and stop your Social Security." The other lady looked constipated when she heard that. But she didn't say a single word.

[Swampguana]

60. It makes a massive difference

when corporations get tax breaks saving them millions while I only save a couple hundred, especially when we're in a huge deficit. Ignorance is disgusting.

[PassingFair]

61. I worry about ANY story that starts out: "I was sitting in a McDonald's inside a Walmart last week"

You JUST KNOW it's not going to turn out well.

:hug:

[rhiannon55]

87. lol!!

:hi: That was almost the title of my post.

[BumRushDaShow]

62. The American Caste system

as created by the lunatic fringe RW to create a "Brave New World" society. This has generated brainwashed masses who think they are "superior" when they really are not.

[dotymed]

64. Tee Vee is the main culprit.

My family, once middle class, now in poverty, dismiss my facts and figures about how the wealthy have put us in this mess. Their typical come-back?
If they say ot on tee vee then it is true....I have told them about the repeal of "THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE", and how it is now court sanctioned for tee vee "news" to lie. They think I am just a troublemaker, when it comes to politics. It exasperates me....

[katnapped]

65. Just wondering...

What do those two idiots do for a living? Do they work for someone? Cuz then they're leeching off of someone else, y'know (they have some hell of a nerve stealing some rich person's money for a salary...bleh)

[McCamy Taylor]

66. Bob and Betty will shit bricks when they hear about the GOP plan to dismantle Medicare.

[JustAnotherGen]

67. Good on you!

My dad is retired and my parents live in a small village in Western New York. The liberal retired dudes now all hang out at a Starbucks in the R.I.T. campus bookstore and the conservatives have the village 'diner'. My dad is a bit of a community organizer :rofl: and he's found - it's better for us to meet elsewhere and discuss what we are going to do in local, state, and federal elections away from the dumb asses.

My point in sharing this? He had the same argument in the local diner and it was on the verge of an all out Old Guy Brawl . . . instigated when my dad asked why the hell the 'others' were taking social security, medi, etc. etc. if they are so 'above gubmint handouts'.

Pssst - my dad uses the word 'gubmint' when talking to his 'unenlightened peers'. ;-)

[DainBramaged]

68. "Walmart workers don't have any skills, so they're already being paid too much."

These are the same people who cheer the burning of the Quran while attacking those who blame Christianity for the bullshit causing the hatred.


Fucking 'Bagger corncobs. America sucks.

[Locrian]

69. all they see....

All they see is the gov taxing them, their savings dwindling, costs going up, teevee propaganda blaming gov at every turn. Their sitting at freaking McDonalds. They see business as "hard working people like themselves".


They DONT see that it's a completely different world for the huge corporations and wall street. They have N.O.T.H.I.N.G in common with these people (but they think they're "just folks like us" tryin to make a buck).

Two governments: the ones "taxing the little guy" and the gov that is bought and paid for by the mega rich is completely at the rich worlds service. These ultra 2%-ers are C.R.I.M.I.N.A.L.S pure and simple. Ultra wealthy version of the crack dealer sucking up any and all cash w/o giving a damn what happens to the rest of the world.

[Diclotican]

70. rhiannon55

rhiannon55

wow, this is great, good you are fighting ignorance... Thats good.. ANd they might even think twice about what they belive in?

Or, they might just shrug it off, as bad habbits in the end...

Thankfully for the most part my "mom"s friends are on the same page as I am.. So we have never get in to a fight over politic;)..

Diclotican

[Diclotican]

71. rhiannon55

rhiannon55

wow, this is great, good you are fighting ignorance... Thats good.. ANd they might even think twice about what they belive in?

Or, they might just shrug it off, as bad habbits in the end...

Thankfully for the most part my "mom"s friends are on the same page as I am.. So we have never get in to a fight over politic;)..

Diclotican

[russspeakeasy]

72. Extreme ignorance and bigotry and fear.

[rasputin1952]

74. I had a somewhat similar encounter in a Town Hall Meeting....

I stated that the Teabaggers were right, we need to stop the "welfare! I then said that "all Social Security and Medicare should cease tomorrow! If people can't pay for themselves, they need to just up and die!"

People dropped papers on the floor, seats moved audibly, and the majority, (SS and Medicare recipients), damn near dropped dead on the spot. I then said..."do you people ever think before you speak?"

I was amazed at how many literally turned an interesting shade of white as the blood drained from their faces...:D

[guitar man]

78. People have the right to make and keep as much money as they want, because IT'S THEIR MONEY."

Then let them pay taxes on it like the rest of us! :grr:

[EC]

81. Many of these people believe that the rich hoarders aren't

taking money away from everyone else. When I explained to my sister that there is only so much money in the system. We can't keep printing more money to circulate because that causes inflation. So when the rich hoard their money, it leaves less money in circulation for the rest of us to earn and spend or even save. So in essence they are withholding our freedom to work and survive by keeping all their money out of circulation. That's why we need regulations or taxes that would encourage the rich to spend (create new businesses or add to existing businesses, etc.) The cookie joke explains this rather well. But should be, the rich guy takes l0 of the dozen cookies and says - theres 2 left for the rest of you - work it out, that's plenty to live on, not my problem, YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THAT I'VE LEFT YOU 2 TO SHARE.



The founding fathers even wrote about the rich accumulating wealth as harmful and that there be a inheritance tax so as to protect against creation of aristocracies among the upper classes.


On edit: Maybe pointing out that at the lower skill level, people are paid for their time, not so much their skills (since most average persons have these skills and are readily available)so it all boils down to - how much is your time worth? And remember it's time that you'll never get back once it's used. (rather it's your life and you have to judge how much of it you've got left in supply and how much you want to sell cheaply) So if someone works a 30 -40 hour week, shouldn't they at least be able to afford to LIVE?

[rhiannon55]

86. That's exactly the point I wish I had made, but Bob left in a huff before I could....

"...at the lower skill level, people are paid for their time, not so much their skills (since most average persons have these skills and are readily available)so it all boils down to - how much is your time worth? And remember it's time that you'll never get back once it's used. (rather it's your life and you have to judge how much of it you've got left in supply and how much you want to sell cheaply) So if someone works a 30 -40 hour week, shouldn't they at least be able to afford to LIVE?"

[Auntie Bush]

82. They must all have the propaganda channel FOX News on 24/7.

That's the stance of every FOX viewer I know. Which came first....the chicken or the egg?

[Harmony Blue]

92. Very true

We must remain vigilant and undue the propaganda machine one person at a time. Most people don't realize that social security is at trust fund.

[EstimatedProphet]

93. It's not their money - that's the point for next time

Money doesn't BELONG to the rich. They make a profit off of the work of others by taking what their employees do, and giving them less in pay back then it is worth. If the employer pays back a reasonable amount of money to the employee, then they will probably make a living wage. The Walton klan likes to pay their employees a very small percentage of what is made by them and pocket the rest.