I don't care what you think of President Obama.

[MineralMan]

It doesn't matter. But, please, please go to the polls in 2012 and vote for Democrats for every legislative seat on your ballot. Leave the Presidential race blank, if you must, but go and vote for legislators. We cannot let the Republicans take more seats. In fact, we must reclaim the majorities in every legislature that lost majorities to Republicans.

And, don't only go to the polls yourself; take someone or several someones with you. Help get out the vote in your precinct, district, and state. Our failure to do that in 2010 has cost us dearly.

We are at a crossroads in 2012. If we fail to reclaim our legislatures, we may not get another chance. Look at what's going on right now, then act, starting now, to reverse that ugly trend that threatens everything we all stand for.

Forget President Obama. Think about the future. Please. I beg you.

BTW, if you feel like saying something nasty to me, please save it, and read my signature line. Thanks.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

1. I'm with you MineralMan!!!

It's SO important!

[MineralMan]

2. Thank you very much! I appreciate that more than you know.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

9. absolutely!!!

We can SEE the clear result of the midterms.......

I hope that debacle enflames liberals, progressives, dems, moderates, greens, and ALL sane people to get out there. In droves!

[MineralMan]

11. It certainly should. It should be a clarion call to everyone

who is anywhere left of center to abandon petty arguments and get to work to turn this thing around. If we fail, I'm afraid our failure will be made very permanent.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

17. goddammit, YES!

abandon petty arguments!!!!!!!!!!!!


geez, even slightly right of center people should be able to see the truth of who these goddammed tea-bagging extremist, anti-american, anti-humanity people are.

I'm going to stop myself from going on a long rage about what I think of them.

[Maraya1969]

120. And don't people realize that this hatred of our president is being orchestrated by the rethugs in

the first place? They are loving it when Democrats go all anti-Obama.

If you look at the whole course of his Presidency you will see that he is a good President even though he has done some things that we don't like. Don't dwell on the negative, that is what Fox news is all about.

[RaleighNCDUer]

122. Bullshit.

I will despise ANY Democrat who enables the Republicans, whether by continuing Republican policies that they are in a position to change, or by using intra-mural politics to isolate the left, such as you do - IMO, that is more damaging to the party than anything Obama does, because it strikes at the heart of the grassroots.

You want 'orchestrated by the rethugs'? How about the DLC being funded by the Koch brothers?

I am in complete agreement with the OP, and will do as I have always done - show up and vote for the most progressive Dems on the ticket, and whatever "moderates" I can stomach.

And i will still yell about it whenever I hear anyone calling Obama a progressive, or Kucinich a Republican.

[MissDeeds]

132. Well said!

[Plucketeer]

151. I second your "Well Said".

Orchestrated??? Like "they" orchestrated the tax cut extensions? The war extension(s)? Like they kept him away from Madison?

Sure, I'll vote (D), but only because it's the lesser of evils.

[Bobbie Jo]

129. Yep

Believe It.

[pnorman]

149. "this hatred of our president is being orchestrated by the rethugs"

You got that right! They're positively SALIVATING at the thought of taking him down in 2012! And if that should happen, it'll take quite a few election cycles to get back on track! And in the interim, the SCOTUS would look a lot worse than its present 5-4 pro=Reptilican edge!

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

31. Hell with left of center. It should get even center and center

right folks riled up and voting for Dems, because the Repubs that were elected in the midterms are so radical, destructive, and batsh*t crazy that even Republicans who are slightly right of center should be horrified and eager to vote Dem to get rid of them!

[roxiejules]

163. Don't wait for elections - call your Representative NOW!

Get on the phone and tell 'em you how you feel - especially if you have Repubs in your district.

STOP the attacks on the poor, the unemployed, the unions, the children, the elderly - our citizens need help, there is major suffering going on in this country right now.

GOP is ready to take down Medicaid and EPA next.

[Monique1]

3. I agree

I do plan to vote for Obama and every single Dem. FU repukes and teabaggers.

[MineralMan]

4. Thank you!

[roguevalley]

123. I have voted in every election since I was a kid. I will vote. That is

not my issue. My issue is the President. And I would like to think I can discuss my issues with him without my status as a dem or a liberal or a human being challenged. I will vote for him, holding my nose if he is the candidate but I reserve the right to speak my mind about his actions. I am not directing this at you, Mineral Man. I want you to know I will vote. :) I am directing it at the slavish followers of our King who think any criticism of his actions and policies, his feeling about labor, etc and his reticence to use his bully pulpit like a dem should is somehow treason.

Thanks, honey, and don't worry. I exercise my franchise always.

[Roci]

162. I will not vote for Obama again

but that does not mean I'm party switching. I will vote a solid Democratic ticket, as I have for the last nearly half a century. If I finish my ballot and it won't scan because the Presidential race is blank, I'll write in my own name so the ballot will scan as complete. But NO Obama. Sorry.

[Hamlette]

165. good, then we'll know who to blame when President Bachman ushers in the next dark ages

I can't believe you former Nader voters haven't had enough.

[Cherchez la Femme]

181. I have never voted Nader

but by Goddess, I wish I & a lot more would have!

THAT would have put our country back on the right track, not multiple wars (& I don't just mean 3, we're shedding blood in a LOT more countries) and pandering to the wealthy, banksters, corporations & Wall Street --the very Republicans you're so afraid of!

Huh, how strange!


The nerve of you people dictating to others how we should spend OUR OWN vote; with your constantly-disproved talking points that are supposed to strike Fear into our hearts

that's a Republican tactic, but you know that don't you? Yet you keep on using it all the while telling us how bad Repukes are!
Have you no shame?


Like I said upthread, I don't care what letter is after any certain name, if I find anyone with a true, historically Democratic platform I'm voting for them. Period. Otherwise, for now I'm voting the party line,
but it won't be forever.
Wanna know why?
I am through aiding, abetting and actually reinforcing the severe rightward tangent this my Party has been on!

And if they don't eventually learn, they'll not be my Party for many years more. The clock is almost at midnight, my patience is near its end
quite simply: my ears are already clogged with New-Democratic Party-line bullshit -- for that is exactly what it is.


You're not telling us anything we don't know honey, but Goddammit, I'm sick and tired of Republican words --and legislation-- coming from Democrats. If legislation like that is going to happen, then I'd rather see a Republican doing it
(Heck, Republicans ARE doing it, even though the legislation is via elected officials in this Party -- that is if you judge ones actions rather than believe all this virtual 1984 blather)

then perhaps the people of this party can come together instead of people like you pooh-pooh'ing long held, cherished Democratic Party Principles (look that last word up if it's unfamiliar to you)
and instead praising the Cult of Personality, insisting we all get in line and march in lock-step behind you. :puke:

You may as well face it: that ain't gonna happen.

[Wind Dancer]

183. Great rant!!

:applause:

I agree with you completely. It's hard to recognize the Democratic Party anymore and Obama has been such a disappointment from the beginning.

[stockholmer]

186. words of truth,I so feel for the true left progressives in the US, dont ever give up your principles

:thumbsup:

[Hamlette]

190. carry on

alone

we'll miss you

but of course we'll do what we have to to replace you, like moving further right to pick up more central/moderate independent votes.

Not sure why some on the left don't see it the way I do. If the "far left"/progressive wing of the party was reliable, not the "I won't vote for the guy who sold me down the river" or whatever, then the party might do more than give us lip service. Fact is, why the hell do we expect the democrats to be loyal to us when so many people who should have voted for Gore in Florida voted for Nader and gave the country to Bush and Cheney for 8 years? Duh.

[readmoreoften]

206. +1

Meet the new neoliberals. Same as the old neocons. But now we have a "Tea Party" and we're not supposed to care about Gitmo, the Patriot Act, the Criminal Bankers, or Rule of Law. We're just supposed to unite with the bankers to fight the "tea bags".

[Roci]

199. Afraid not

Sorry, but the people you ought to be going after are the 55% of the people who never vote at all in National elections. I have never voted for Nader, so you're equally wrong there. I worked for Gore in 2000, and Kerry in 2004,and yes, for Obama in 2008, too just to cover all the most recent campaigns. And just to put you little mind at ease, Bachmann has about as much chance of becoming president as Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Hamlette]

200. I used Nader as an example

and while I'd love to go after the 55% who do not vote there is one problem. They don't vote.

We can't get them to vote.

Been trying for all of my years.

I remember being shocked at how few people voted during Vietnam when they were being drafted and killed. If that didn't motivate them to vote, I don't know what will. Hell, if you can't get your own party to vote for you, ppl who vote all the time, you'd be insane to think non voters would come out.

So, if you are realistic about it, elections are decided at the middle. And when the left stays home, as they did in 2010, or pouts and votes Nader like they did in 2000, the whole country lurches rightward.

So, if you want your country to be more right leaning, stay home, piss on Obama, vote a third party. While the chances of Bachmann are very slim, think how damned close we can to President Palin last time.

[Art_from_Ark]

201. During most of the Vietnam War, most of the kids being drafted,

that is, the 18- to 20-year-olds, were too young to vote.

As Barry McGuire sang so eloquently in 1966, "You're old enough to kill, but not for voting..."

[Hamlette]

202. so, do you have a plan for getting them to vote?

I'd love to hear it. I suppose you think it will be easy and that you know something we have been trying to figure out for all of my 60 years.

Enlighten me.

BTW, people older than 20 were drafted and the voting age was lowered in 1971, before Vietnam was over. But that seems minor since you figured out a way to get other 55% of us to vote.

[Art_from_Ark]

203. The voting age was lowered to 18 in 1971

but the first election that 18- to 20-year-olds were really able to vote in was in 1972. The last US troops were withdrawn from Vietnam in early 1973. And the draft lotteries of the '70s targeted mainly 19- and 20-year-olds.

http://www.landscaper.net/draft70-72.htm

Sure, there were kids older than 20 who were getting drafted, usually after their college deferment ended. How many of them voted? How many of them would have voted for Bobby Kennedy or Eugene McCarthy in 1968, but instead were turned off from voting when presented with the choice between a D-war candidate, an R-war candidate, and an AI-segregationist?

[Hamlette]

211. so, your position is that we could get the 55% of Americans who don't vote to vote if we had better

candidates? Or, more liberal candidates?

I'm skeptical. Many very liberal candidates have been defeated over the years. McGovern comes to mind.

I don't really understand what you mean by the draft lotteries targeting mainly 19 to 20 year olds. It covered men from 18 to 26. Anyone in that age range was subject to the draft equally. Not just those who were 19 or 20.

[readmoreoften]

205. Never voted for Nader. But you might want to run someone who isn't a bankers' hack next time.

I'll vote for my Dem congress critters, but I'm not co-signing any of these Goldman Sachs' puppets. If Obama wanted my vote, he would've stopped promoting the con artists who brought down the economy. Also, someone who isn't completely full of shit.

[Hamlette]

212. your choice, your vote....of course

I'm just saying when the left leaves the party, the party has to move right and there is nothing viable on the other side.

[Angry Dragon]

5. K&R

[MineralMan]

6. Many thanks!

[SDuderstadt]

7. Count me in...

MM, including proudly voting for Obama's re-election.

[MineralMan]

8. I will, and thank you for your effort!

[bluestate10]

70. I have your back, up and down the ticket. I do not understand the logic

of progressives.

[jimlup]

10. Of course...

My protest against Mr. Obama will be simple. I will not contribute a penny towards his 2012 election. I contributed fairly heavily (for a person of my means) in '08 but that ship has sailed Mr. President.

Don't worry, I'll vote for the guy. I generally vote anti-republican and always have. I enjoyed 2008 because I thought I was actually voting for someone I could support. Now I'm just voting lessor evil.

[MineralMan]

13. Thanks. Your support is more than welcome.

[GReedDiamond]

12. I have been at odds with your opinions before...

...but not this time.

K and R.

[MineralMan]

14. I appreciate that. This is a very simple thing. A no-brainer, I think.

I'm amazed that is not recognized more widely. We must win this battle.

[GReedDiamond]

27. "This is a very simple thing. A no-brainer, I think"...

...right you are MM, even I get it!

[babylonsister]

15. I will vote for Dems, and I WILL vote for President Obama. If

people would just consider the 8 years of dim son, I would hope they'd reevaluate their stance on Obama. Sure, he's not perfect and has done things I don't agree with, but on balance, why would we want to replace him, and if we did, with who? I'm open to suggestions, but can't think of one person who would do a perfect job given all the challenges.

[MineralMan]

22. Thanks. I will vote for him, too. Others seem to say they don't

want to, but I see no reason why they wouldn't work for Democrats in the legislature. That's a battle we must win.

[bluestate10]

53. So will I. What the fuck are some DUERs thinking?

So, we get a democratic Congress again and a republican President who refuses to enact legislation passed by that Congress. Do some people like jerking off?

[kag]

113. "dim son"...

Hadn't heard that one before!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Pholus]

169. Look I probably will too, but without a ton of enthusiasm. Sorry.

Downstream is where my energy and money go this time around.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. Fuck that.

Also vote for Obama. If for no other reason than the supreme court.

Otherwise, I couldn't agree more.

[MineralMan]

20. Well, I'll certainly be voting for him. I'd like to see what he can

do with a strong majority in both houses. But, some seem committed to opposing the President in 2012. I want their support for Democratic legislative candidates, too. That's the reason I'm saying to forget about President Obama. He's just one part of the equation.

[Selatius]

81. Hopefully, the Democratic majority is a very liberal majority in 2012.

If we get a crop full of right wing Democrats, the opportunity would be lost for a lifetime. I know a fair number of people who were unhappy with the right wing Democrats in the House and Senate, so they stayed home in 2010. If we could get the kind of left wing Democrats that were common back in the 1930s under FDR, we're golden.

[MineralMan]

97. Well, I'm just hoping it's large enough to override GOP

tactics in the Senate. I'll settle for that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

126. Just what good is a majority that can override the GOP tactics,

if they never DO override the GOP tactics?

I will not vote for anyone who supports the republicans, no matter what capital letter follows the name. If that means I vote only for local and state offices, so be it.

No pro-war, anti-labor, anti-choice, anti-education Dem will ever get my vote again.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

67. Yeah, that too

[alp227]

172. yes, don't allow a gridlock between R white house and D Congress

speaking of which much of the George HW Bush administration, the last half of the George W Bush administration, and the tail end of the Reagan administration that was the makeup of the government.

[handmade34]

18. take back the Congress

and

[MineralMan]

23. Thumbs up for that!

[Mimosa]

19. It's not about him, it's about US.

I'm getting tired of the 'good cop, bad cop' routine which both parties have perfected.

[PurityOfEssence]

21. Don't worry about that.

I suppose some will get disgusted and opt out, but I think you can rest assured that those on this board will choke back any annoyance and not only vote for but help out the candidates.

Much as you may be surprised, I will vote again for Obama and have the courtesy to shut up when in open society, and even try to sway some independents or wavering Democrats.

I must say, though, that I'm not the least bit averse to a primary challenge, if someone honorable enough and with a serious chance comes along.

People are mad. It's real.

[MineralMan]

24. Well, that's why we have separation of powers. The legislature and

the executive are two separate things. However you feel about the executive, we still need a strong majority in as many legislative bodies as possible. The alternative is unthinkable, and we're seeing that right now on a daily basis. If that isn't enough to stir up the left, I can't imagine what would be enough.

[msongs]

25. exactly! vote for dems who stand for something more than republican-lite nt

[MineralMan]

26. More importantly, do not allow any sort of Republican to win,

wherever possible. The Democratic caucuses in most legislatures will work together to pull the party together when it's important. I'll take a blue dog any day over any Republican. Any day.

[DesertRat]

33. ANY DAY!!

[RKP5637]

28. Recommend and count me in !!! n/t

[JDPriestly]

29. Absolutely. And while you are at it, join your local Democratic Club

and do more than just talk.

[tblue37]

30. No, don't leave the presidential race blank. There is a very good chance

that the next president will appoint at least one and as many as three new Supreme Court justices. We have all seen the damage Bush's appointments have done--Citizens United is just the tip of the iceberg. If we get a Republican president, we have no hope at all. SC justices last forever. They are the gift that keeps on giving. And if we have a Republican president, there will be no more Sotomayors or Kagans on the Court!

The president also appoints to the federal bench, and Republican federal judges are doing a lot of damage, too.

We absolutely need a Dem president. No matter what else he does that some people ahte, Obama undoubtedly appoints better judges than a Republican would!

[MadMaddie]

40. Thanks for pointing that out! It is critical that we

do not allow another Republican on the Supreme Court....I can't even think about the repurcussions.

[bluestate10]

54. Excellent observations. Why do some like to set the country back

by acting on petty concerns and not seeing the bigger picture. If McCain/Palin had won in 2008 and appointed the two newest Supreme Court Justices, progressive values would not have seen the light of day for another quarter century. The statements about republican light democrats border on insane. The attacks on President Obama by so called progressives on DU are beyond pale for the damage that those views could do to the values that the attackers claim they desire the country to move to.

[JTFrog]

87. Don't leave it blank is right.

Suggesting otherwise is against DU rules anyway.

Expressing intent to not vote or vote third party, or justifying defeat of any Democratic general election candidate (unless a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative).

I'm pretty sure "leaving it blank" is a non-vote and a helping hand to the Republicans as always.

[MineralMan]

91. I added, "if you must."

I'm not advocating it. I want every Democrat to vote, even if they won't vote for the President. There are many other races. 2010 was marked by many people staying away from the polls based on disappointment with the administration. The result was disastrous in many states.

[JTFrog]

102. A republican president would be even more disastrous.

Why endorse writing a "blank" check to the Republicans? "Leave it blank" is NOT voting and is a plus for repugs. When election season starts I really hope DU discourages this point of view.

:shrug:

[MineralMan]

104. You know, Obama will win in 2012. There are those who have

declared that they will not vote for him. I'm trying to encourage them to go and vote anyway, rather than to stay home and not vote at all.

I support Barack Obama in 2012, and will be campaigning for him. I think it's incredibly stupid and short-sighted to vote for anyone else for President, either in the primary or general elections. For those who will not vote for him under any circumstances, I ask that they go to the polls and vote for Democrats for legislative office.

I'm sorry you did not understand what I was trying to say.

[tblue37]

130. You are right, of course. Better leave it blank than not vote D in other races

or not vote at all.

But my point was not to argue with you, MM--I agree with you more often than not, actually. My point was to come up behind those anti-Obama folk who read your message and then thought, "Yes, I'll do that," to tap them on the shoulder and remind them of why they should consider voting for Obama anyway, even if they really don't like him or his policies.

[JTFrog]

171. Exactly. n/t

[treestar]

100. Amen!

I don't get the far left's lack of fear of Republicans. It's just unrealistic. There are more republicans than socialists in this country. The Presidency being in R hands will not change that.

[tblue37]

141. I like the way you phrased that. Yes, they do need to be afraid,

very, very, very afraid.

Those who say voting for the lesser of two evils out of fear is not the right thing to do are so full of caca.

The midterm consequences should show anyone who doubts that the Republicans can do a world of irretrievable damage in a very short time, so it is too dangerous to let them have power for even a nanosecond!

Sure, I would rather have a more progressive (more socialist, really) government, but we can't accomplish that right this minute. We do need to work our butts off to establish the ground to make that possible, but we cannot merely jump to that goal without sufficiently laying that groundwork. The Rs spent decades and megamillions (megabillions, even) to make it possible for them to elect RW crazies in a center-left country, and to convince the voting population of what really is a center-left country that "liberal" is a dirty word and that they themselves are really all conservatives or libertarians.

If we start aggressively laying the groundwork now, we have a chance to elect progressively more liberal candidates over time, but at age 60 I fear a real progressive won't make it to the WH in my lifetime, though of course I desperately hope I am wrong.

A week or so ago I posted a thread speculating that Obama might actually be a "stealth" liberal who, realizing that tptb won't let him do anything at all (and that they'd probably JFK him) if he did as much as he wants to do as fast as he wants to do it, was making a show of being corporate-friendly while sneakily moving the liberal agenda forward tiny steps at a time:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=631285&mesg_id=631285

For example, look at what Vermont is doing toward single-payer health care, with Obama's explicit encouragement and in accordance with certain provisions of the health care law.

In the same way that state-by-state legalization of gay marriage and medical marijuana is gradually moving the line toward a truly liberal stance on those issues, so too might state-by-state experiments in fair health care access lead eventually to a national movement in that direction.

Obama in public seems to side with those who would compromise the right of gays to marry or the right of people to use medical marijuana, but he does do a lot of wink-winking about the states' movement in the right (left) direction.

He also appointed Elizabeth Warren in a way that allows her to do some good things for us, but without himself directly confronting the Wall Street criminals and their congressional minions in a way that would allow them to shoot down all effort at financial reform.

I teach college English, and I actually play a lot of mind games with my students. I would much rather be open and honest with them, but they are so undisciplined and immature that if I treat them as though they are completely mature and trustworthy partners in the process of enabling them to learn what they need to learn, they won’t learn anything at all, and many will crash and burn altogether.

For example, I deliberately come across as a hard-ass early in the semester, and assure them that I will count off for unexcused absences, late papers, or improperly formatted papers. In reality, I am a very maternal marshmallow who has no desire at all to do damage to young people or to close doors that might lead them to a better future. The truth is that I am never looking for a reason to lower a student’s grade. The poor kids are already such bad writers—often for reasons that are not their fault at all—that it’s hard to find reasons not to put an “F”—or at the very best a “D”—on most papers I get from them!

But if I let them know that I don’t actually lower grades for late papers or poor attendance, then they will not show up to class or do their work in a timely fashion, and at the end of the term, even if they manage to get all their work in before my grade sheets must be submitted, they will not have learned anything from writing the papers, because what they must earn must be learned gradually, over time, and in response to detailed critiques of their specific writing problems, paper by paper. Also, if they don’t come to class, they won’t learn all the important things I am trying to teach them in class.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s I could pretend to take roll for about 2 weeks and then stop doing so, because once they saw what I was doing in class, most students wouldn’t miss for the world, and many would actually bring friends, so that I would have standing room only in some of my classes! (Yes, in violation of fire codes, though no one complained at the time.) But today’s students are even less disciplined than students back then, so I have to keep them on a much shorter leash.

I suspect that Obama is doing something similar with tptb and with their crazy RW minions, pretending to be whatever he must be to keep them at least partly mollified and distracted, while trying to move the progressive agenda forward a bit on the sly and also, perhaps more important, trying to lay the groundwork for future progress when he is no longer in office—as on the medical marijuana, gay marriage, and health care issues. Also, look at how he handled DADT. If he had simply used an executive order to change it, a R president could come in and change it right back. But by doing it the way he did, he is ensuring that the right of gays to openly serve in the military will not be easily overturned, no matter who is elected president.

Maybe I am just being gullible. Certainly I feel impatient, and I often do think he is more cautious and measured than he needs to be, that he could move further faster—at least some. But it does seem to me that he has accomplished more than people give him credit for.

[RaleighNCDUer]

142. There's the core difference - "the far left's lack of fear".

I will not vote for someone who opposes my deepest held principles just for fear of the other side.

Vote for the lesser of two evils and you are still voting for evil.

I will not allow fear to rule my life.

[bluestate10]

176. You also will not have the government you want during your lifetime. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

194. So to get the government I want I must vote for the government I don't want.

You don't see the illogic in that?

[Raine]

32. THAT is EXACTLY what I will be doing

I'm in California and the Democrats in my state deserve my vote. Obama will have to earn my vote, so far he hasn't.

[bluestate10]

55. So. If you don't vote for Obama and a republican wins the Presidency.

What will you do about the 2-3 Supreme Court seats that are likely to open up during that President's term? If those seats are filled with rightwingers, ala Alio and Roberts, forget seeing any progressive legislation or change in the country for the next quarter century. Even if a law is passed, rightwingers will sue until it reaches the arch rightwing Supreme Court and have the law overturned there. Do progressives REALLY think about the consequences of their votes, or non votes?

[readmoreoften]

207. A Republican already has the Presidency.

Obama's appointees have been as harsh on civil liberties as Bush's cronies, so I'm not really motivated to vote for the hack, thanks.

[Rex]

34. Rule 1 on how to win over people and make friends.

DON'T start your post with 'I don't care', because guess what bubba - most people will just turn off to the rest of your post. You actually do yourself a disservice by starting off that way - the rest of the post is all true. We need to win, we must win.

But seriously, if you don't care about my opinion why should I care about yours? It disqualifies your intent imo.

Not nasty, jus saying.

[ocd liberal]

35. I completely agree!

It is this century's biggest priority.

[gateley]

36. Check it out:

It's one of the things that makes me so angry. I feel betrayed by those who don't vote in order to 'make a statement' (how's that working out?) or they can't go against their principles (but ensuring others get screwed is principled?). They think it's about THEM, it's about all of us and the best for our country. :rant:

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bobbie Jo]

48. +1000

[bluestate10]

71. The Greens in my state had decided to not vote for the incumbent

democratic governor. If centrist democrats had not stayed loyal and some Independent voted for the sitting governor, my state would have a Scott Walker problem. To this day, I can't remove my anger at Greens. After seeing the antics of republican governors in Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida, my resentment toward Greens has intensified. If Greens want to blow up any possibility for progressive legislation and social change, go and do it. But expect a middle finger in your face when you come to my political group for help in turning back republican insanity.

[stockholmer]

187. sorry, but you'll not see "progressive legislation and social change" by way of 'lesser of 2 evils'

I am a proud member of Miljöpartiet de Gröna (The Swedish Green Party), and many on the centre-left (mainly the Social Democrats) said that we were enabling the cenrtre-right Alliance to take power.

This last election we had huge gains, and denied the Alliance a true majority. Now we are the swing votes, and have blocked many of their initiatives, as well as forcing them to accept some of ours.

The 2 party system in the US is a curse, IMHO. It needs to end, or the systemic controllers will steamroll your way of life.

[bluestate10]

188. The United States is not Sweden. Would be great if it was.

The United States will get to more progressive policies by following the path that Canada took to get universal health care in Canada.

[stockholmer]

189. I feel for you,it has to be maddening to be betrayed by the party you vote for,yet horrified at the

other option. I always have hope that you can break the paradigm. As for single-payer health care, my optimism is much less. Focus on ending these insane empiric wars first, that is the key to preserving the republic.

cheers

[Erose999]

213. Our incumbent leadership isn't even with us on ending empiric wars, what with Libya and all.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Always vote. Always. In fact, on this we agree fully.

I'd go so far as to say that when I can not vote for the Democrat, I just vote against the Republican, which gets me around having to hold my nose, because I'd vote for an inanimate object over any Republican I have ever seen or even heard tell after they buried Abe.
And I'd add that my next close encounter of the voting kind will be in June, and I assume many DUers will have elections between here and the Presidential. No skipping the 'little elections' in between! Vote every time, I'm certain you will agree, every bloody damn time. And on every last thing, including the judges even if it means doing some reading, vote that down ticket, all the way to the last and leave no conservative standing.
No excuses for not voting. One's own death might be an acceptable excuse. If the death occurs before noon on election day. That's how I see it.

[bluestate10]

56. Polls open at 7 or 8am. If you die at noon, you have no excuse for not voting

before you die. Beside that, I am with you, I vote my entire ballot and leave no republican standing.

[slay]

38. Good point - we have lots of good local Dems

and most people know I am very much a critic of Obama's - but you're right - people should still go vote for their local Dem or local most progressive candidate regardless of what we do about Obama. i simply can not support his leadership (if that's what you call it) style but many of my local Dems have my vote. I feel it is Obama who has strayed from Dem goals and values - not us.

[bluestate10]

57. Forget it. Why waste my time? nt

[slay]

59. Um ok, sure don't vote if you don't want

nobody's making you. but the Dems are not guaranteed my vote - especially national ones - if that's the problem you have with me - too bad. they take their power for granted - and abuse it.

[bluestate10]

74. Ok. Deal with a cold conservative Supreme Court.

Or federal judgeships filled with conservatives. Forget about progressive legislation happening for the rest of your life. Watch as Vermont implement single payer health care and have an out of state conservative group sue in the courts, watch as those courts, including an arch rightwing Supreme Court overturn single payer in Vermont and impose restrictions that will make any progressive health care reform anywhere impossible. Go ahead, don't vote or waste your vote on a progressive writein that does not have a prayer of winning. I am a centrist, a conservative Congress, a conservative President and an arch conservative Supreme Court that will be in place for twenty years will cause me heartburn, but those bodies will destroy every progressive cause that you hold dear. Bleed your cause out.

[slay]

154. I will not be blackmailed or threated in order to prop up a Democratic party that has abandoned

the people and its principles on a national level. I bit my tongue and voted Gore in 2000 even though Nader was right then as he is right now.

I fell for Obama's "hope and change" crap just like everyone else.

But not again. When he gave tax cuts to billionaires while everyone else is either hurting or unemployed, or under attack like the labor unions - he crossed my line.

Maybe Obama losing is what it will take to wake America up. I'm not happy about it. But we can not continue to have TWO PRO-CORPORATE parties any more!

I will vote for a progressive on the national level - even if I have to write in Dennis Kucinich. Sorry if you can not deal with that. Don't blame me, blame Obama for being the worst president since Reagan. That's right - the worst president since Reagan. At least with Bush you knew you were going to get screwed. With Obama there is a giant heaping helping of BETRAYAL to add on top of that. I can not even express how huge of a let down Obama has been, not just to Dems, but to the people of America.

If more people would stand up for what they believe in, we wouldn't end up with horrible pro-corporate presidents like Obama.

Sorry - the republican boogyman in the closet doesn't scare me nearly as much as one who masquerades as a Dem.

The days of centrists like you take liberal votes like mine for granted are over. The days of my rubber stamping a ballot in favor of Dems are done. It will be interesting to see what the future brings - cause I am FAR from the only one who feels this way. It's time to put a stop to pro-corporate Dems by voting them out - and voting in real progressives. Even if it takes many elections to accomplish this. There is no other way. We have tried the centrist way for FARRRRRR too long - and with disastrous results.

[bluestate10]

177. Vote the way you want. Understand that your vote will have consequences. nt

[JTFrog]

196. Will have consequences for everyone.

I'm so sick of these selfish fuckers saying they will sacrifice good because they can't have their own version of perfect.

[charmay]

39. I'm not happy with everything

that Obama has or hasn't done, but he's a lot better than the alternative. The Supreme Court appointments alone are crucial.

[bluestate10]

60. EXACTLY. If progressives blow the 2012 election for democrats,

including President, progressives will not see progressive change in the country for the next quarter century. After being burned with some past Supreme Court appointments, republican Presidents place the most partisan, blindly conservative jurist possible up for nomination, that nominee or a facsimile WILL be put on the bench. This thing that progressives have about President Obama leave me scratching my head. Progressives don't seem to realize that if a republican wins the Presidency in 2012, progressive change will not happen during what is left of their lives.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredStembottom]

112. Here we are uniting and you just have to grind an axe.

You've taken several shots at Progressives on this thread (on a Progressive website) about uniting.

You've used them to grab the ball and sprint down-field to the Progressives-are-the-problem goal-post.

You are being divisive on a thread about unity.

[bluestate10]

179. Nonsense. I have carried water for progressives causes during my

voting years. But when I see a clear and present danger, I expect progressives to see that danger and act accordingly. But progressives act counter to what is best, Bush 2000, Walker/Kasich/Scott 2010, a near defeat of an exceptional governor in my home state in the 2010 election. I am put out with biting my tongue while progressive fuck up votes. I cover their backs, I expect them to cover mine when I need them on an important vote. Had progressives held the line with moderate democrats, some progressives and independents in the 2000 vote, the country would not have Roberts and Alio on the Supreme Court and would not have Citizens United. Progressive can deny, but they F'ed the 2000 vote and the nation has paid immensely in treasury and lives. because of progressive's actions in the voting booth. I am pissed and don't care what you think.

[FredStembottom]

185. I see Progressive-ism and tactics as 2 separate things.

All kinds of people can vote in unhelpful ways. Centrists, too. Not just Progressives.

The core of the divide between us was put there by our party leaders. When they decided to begin enacting Republican policies back in the 90's. This is a BIG problem. Could even lead to Democratic in-fighting.

I will admit that there is no other choice. We must work to elect Democrats - or get something worse. But some of us are working to reform the party as well - me? that's actually my #1 priority.

I detect a bit of luxurious thinking in the posts I see at DU that actually condemn DU'ers for having Democratic values. I am a blue-collar guy. We were thrown under the bus by our Dem leaders 25-30 years ago. We are 25-30 years into the losses that the NAFTA, GATT, Glass-Steagall repeal , broadcast de-regulation and union winnowing of the Clinton years have inflicted on this country. I can't help but wonder if those purporting to be Centrists, who seem able to be on DU 24/7 to shout down those who have ideals are simply people who haven't been washed away by these policies just yet. They still have cubicles to go to and healthy paychecks to receive this coming week.

. My family members fall into poverty and degradation more each day. I need the policies that will save them. And I can't spend any more time liking Democrats who enact policies that hurt them. I don't have that luxury. I'm at least 20 years past being able to afford seeing elections as sporting events - seeing a guy with a D by his name winning as an ending. To me it's just a beginning. On the very next day after an election, I begin to desperately seek out whether any of the D winners will do the D things needed to end the suffering.

Bluestate, you and I might well be best friends in the end..... if our Democratic leaders stop dividing us by enacting Republican policies. Let's hope for that.

[bluestate10]

191. Democrats for the last 30 years have come into office first having to

undo the damage of their republican predecessor. The US stated losing jobs during the seventies when Nixon's policies allowed steel mills to be overrun by cheap steel from Japan. The first democrat after Nixon was Carter, who spent his Presidency dealing with oil price shocks that started under Nixon and Ford. Reagan came in then Bush I and gutted US industry with outsourcing. Clinton did do NAFTA, but Clinton enacted some progressive policies that reversed Reagan-Bush I policies. GW Bush came in after Clinton and put the nation into a hole that is has not escaped from. To me one issue is clear, if democrats do not stay at home and deliver democratic Presidents through 2020, current republicans will set the country in a deep hole once again, democrats can't let that outcome happen.

[FredStembottom]

192. Bottom line: you and I will be busy working for Dems in 2012.

My message to my fellow Progressives: I know you are hurting and disappointed - but there is no other way.

1) Primaries are for getting real Democrats in place. Apply pressure here.
2) Vote
3) Vote straight Dem ticket
4) Your work has just begun. Do like they do in Wisconsin. Visit your statehouse and give your employees their orders.

[Erose999]

214. Maybe when the Circle D democrats spend 8 years in the wilderness they will remember how important

the progressive vote is and how important the core principles of the Democratic Party are to progressives. We can stand on principles or we can continue to play the corporatists' game. We already know that continuing to play the corporatist game always leads to a rightwing outcome. Pyrrhic victory... we've won on paper but have nothing to show for it.

I'm sorry, while Obama may not equal Bush or Palin, he certainly equals Romney or Pawlenty or Jindal or any of the other milquetoast corporatist Republicans who are likely to get the nomination. The whole 2012 presidential contest will be nothing but a circle jerk of corporate money, Citizens United, and the Koch Brothers.

[jwirr]

41. I first voted for JFK in the 60s and I hate to think of the number of times

our party has beaten itself because we stayed home or voted third party (when we knew they could not win) because we were angry and I do not remember one time it was a good thing. VOTE Democratic in 2012. Like Rummy said we go to war with the army we have or candidate we have. :evilgrin:

[RaleighNCDUer]

215. it's looking more like, we go to war no matter who our candidate is. nt

[elocs]

42. Last fall lots of Dems here in WI were pissed at Obama, or were disenchanted, or whatever

and they didn't vote. Lots of Democratic candidates who had nothing to do with Obama or anything else about that suffered including Tom Barrett who lost to Walker as well as our great U.S. senator, Russ Feingold. Let's get it right this time and at least show up at the polls and vote for all of those Democrats down ticket even if you are mad at Obama.

Governments are formed, law and policies are made as a result of the actions of those who choose to participate in the process, not by those who stay at home.

[bluestate10]

62. Refusing to vote for President Obama could open up conservative

appointments to the Supreme Court. Republicans have shown that when they have absolute power in a political body, they impose stark laws and changes. Even if democrats are elected locally, statewide and to Congress but the Presidency is lost because of the actions of progressives, the overwhelmingly conservative Supreme Court that results will reverse every piece of legislation passed on the state or local level. The Constitution does not matter to republicans once they have power. Do progressives want to chance that extreme rightwing republican SJs will have a twinge of patriotism and refuse to go along with the destruction of separation of powers, or honor the legal standing of states that pass progressive, constitutionally sound legislation?

[elocs]

96. If they are not going to vote for Obama anyways I would rather see them show up at the polls

and support other Democrats. Obama was not even running last year yet Democrats here in Wisconsin stayed home because they were unhappy with him or disenchanted and we get Walker and lose Feingold.

Yes, the Supreme Court matters a great deal. Evidently a lot of people in the 2000 presidential election who normally would vote Democratic bought into the lie that there is no difference between the two major parties, like Al Gore would have made the same Supreme Court choices as Bush did.

[bluestate10]

182. I agree with you. Show up and vote democrat for each race.

Enough has been seen of the alternative to prove that it is not just bad, but disastrous. Under democrats the nation is moving toward a progressive society with changes like health care reform, credit card reform and more rights for gay people. Bolder changes like single payer health care reform is going to happen in Vermont, but that could be in jeopardy if republicans gain control of the White House and all of Congress.

[bobbolink]

43. When these representative candidates start caring about poverty, let me know.

Until then, why are we poor people supposed to be more concerned with YOUR interests than you are with OURS?

[DonCoquixote]

51. True, but

There is one thing about dems vs GOP, while the dems are not doing as much as they could for the poor, the GOP outright plans to exterminate them.

[ipaint]

86. Like raising their taxes while everyone else got a cut.

Sure. I'm equally poor under both repubs and democrats. Perhaps if more of our dead, abused bodies end up in the streets the comfy "it's all about me" middle class will wake up. If not perhaps when they too are penniless and abandoned by society.

[bobbolink]

110. If we are called upon to make "sacrifices", maybe that is the only sacrifice that will matter, eh?

Your post is very sad, yet none of it seems to cause any outgrowth of compassion.

:cry: :pals:

[bobbolink]

109. Either way, we are "exterminated", and we are quite aware that it doesn't matter to most

"progressives".

What we have learned from Michigan is that when the frog suddenly boils, people sit up and take notice, and finally are pushed to action.

[DonCoquixote]

157. Exterminate

Here is the difference, yes, the Democrats are falling far short, but unlike the Dems, the GOP knows how to make the most of time; they will act in a hurry to make sure their damage is done beyond repair, because they know laws are just pieces of paper to be bought off. It's ugly, but it is true. The Democrats are slow, big slow, but at least their failure to act will allow them to be attacked, whereas the GOP can openly say "we want to kill all the poor tonight!" and they will get hallelujahs from the churches and quick wounds that kill quick. It is basically the difference between a slow beast and a tiger.

and with all due respect, I must dissect this quote:

"What we have learned from Michigan is that when the frog suddenly boils, people sit up and take notice, and finally are pushed to action."

First off, no they will not. It is nice to think that when the pain comes, the illusions fall, but the reality is, when the pain comes, the frogs will start attacking each other on here, and that just makes it easier for the cooks. Take a look here at DU; if it were not for the name, this place could easily be called "Left wing civil war" because this is where everybody attacks everyone. Take a look at what happened with Libya; this board just tore each others eyes out calling everybody who disagreed with them names. Sad to say, the same exact thing happened when 9-11 hit. It is nice to think that pain removes our illusions, but in this day and age, it only makes people cling to them more tightly then ever. We need to act before the water boils, because once it does, the Americans will NOT, like the Arabs did, turn on their thinking caps, but instead, the brain will be hotwired.

Oh, one note to people on this board, I may disagree with Bobbo at times, but I have a lot more respect for her then many of you. If you disagree with her point, yelling at her won't work, nor should it. If you want her, or for that matter, even a disgruntled former Obama cheerleader like myself to vote, do not yell at us, because sooner or later, all the yelling people do becomes a sonic blur that just gets tuned out. It's one of the ways you survive when you are stuck on a ship of fools sailing over the waterfall.

[bobbolink]

158. I disagree. We poor folk will be exterminated, and as that happens, WE will rise up.

Our anger will finally explode.

NO, it won't save us, but it is more likely to help poor people in the future than this s-l-o-w march to extermination.

You are thinking only of what is best for you all in the middleclass.

I am NOT. You have left us on our own, and we will return the favor.

We owe you nothing.

Deal with it.

[DonCoquixote]

195. You may be right

Though frankly, I do not count on anger being a productive force, it should be, but it rarely is. There is plenty of anger in the South, yet it only seems to add to the status quo.

As far as me thinking about only what is best for the middleclass, well, I only know one thing, at the rate we are going, there really will not be much of any class left. Pretty soon, all nations will be just places for the neo aristocrats to speak in their pidgin of french, english and chinese.

[bobbolink]

197. Its a damned good thing Malcolm X wasn't angry!

And thannk you for proving my point.

I reminded you that poor people WILL be exterminated, and you replied only with concern for the middleclass, proving exactly what I have been saying. Some fucking "solidarity".

[DonCoquixote]

217. er no

I said ALL people, not just ther middle class, not just americans, all people, period. From the formerly middle class to the folks in Africa that would consider you Middleclass by comparison. The rich will morph into a generic, nationless group for whom neither culture, nation, nor even language will be much of a concern.

[DonCoquixote]

219. and yes malcom was angry

but even he know he could not build upon it, which is why he changed his name to Shabazz. Of course, those angry at him killed him, doing more harm to the nation of Islam than the FBI could ever do. That is what i want to avoid; seeing the bastards pour champagne when we shoot ourselves in the foot, yet again.

[bluestate10]

64. Go ahead and screw yourself by sitting at home.

I understand the stakes of not voting and allowing republicans to win. But, interestingly, my financial status cause me to do well under republicans. So, go ahead and screw yourself if you want. Maybe once you have screwed yourself and any right thinking person big, people like me will finally say screw you.

[bobbolink]

117. Thank you for expressing your concern so very clearly. We already know both parties will SCREW us

so we are making the final sacrifice for YOU.

However, what you fail to even recognize in that superior stance, is that YOU also had a choice.

You could have chosen to understand AND CARE about what is happening to us under the Dems, stand up and speak out and be determined not to stand by and let us suffer and die from the cuts.

Yet, what you chose, instead, is to vilify and criticize.

So, I must say, congratulations on turning away a strong and traditional part of your base, and cooperating with the RW to get SCREWED because you don't understand that politics means that in exchange for receiving the votes, you ALSO WORK FOR THE BEST INTEREST OF THOSE WHO VOTE.

Quite simple, yet it just doesn't seemm to sink in.

Keep dismissing us, and enjoy the screwing next year.

[Cleita]

44. I agree with you and I find that getting majorities

in the minority positions is probably more important than the Presidency, however, I still want a Democrat in the White House rather than a seditious Republican.

[bluestate10]

68. 2-3 Supreme Court Justices likely will be appointed from 2012-2016.

The Presidency is not important? Guess who makes the SC appointments? The short sightedness of progressives is astounding. Think the Presidency is not important, allow the arch rightwing to control the high court by a 6-3 or 7-2 margin. I can promise you that you can forget seeing any progressive change during what is left of your life. And if you have young female relatives, their lives will be made a hell as the high court restricts their productive rights and right to equal pay.

[liberation]

46. When begging becomes the main value proposition for a political party...

... you know things are really broken.

[Terra Alta]

47. I will be voting a straight Democratic ticket.

And will be bringing along friends who will do the same. Including voting for Obama. He isn't perfect, but he's better than anyone the GOPukes have to offer.

[lindalou65]

49. Vote in 2012

I intend to vote for democrats including Obama. I sure as heck don't want a Rethug as president. I think Obama has done pretty well overall. No way I will vote Rethug! :P

[pintobean]

50. I anticipate

another spite thread around Sept. 2012.

[Lugnut]

52. I always vote for Democrats.

I never fail to vote.

[LadyHawkAZ]

58. Amen to that.

People need to be reminded good and loud of what happened last Nov. when they decided to stay home en masse.

[louslobbs]

61. K&R right there with you MineralMan, Thanks for the post, and if any nasty comments come

wear them as a badge of courage, sanity and reality.
Lou

[Hawkowl]

63. That is exactly what I decided to do

I will cut my nuts off with a plastic spork before I vote for Obama again. But I WILL go and vote for Dems at every other office and level.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

65. I agree

[me b zola]

66. I do think about the future...constantly

I'm not leaving the presidential slot blank, i'll be writing in a progressive name, who i have yet to decide. And yes, i will be voting for progressives down ballot. Progressives, that's who's going to get my vote.

[bluestate10]

69. You will write in a progressive name for President.

And if progressives in key swing states follow your lead, a republican gets elected President with a minimum 2-3 Supreme Court appointments looming from 2012-2016. Congratulations, you would have screwed yourself. I am a centrist, while a rightwing court will cause me heartburn, I know that it will positively bury your causes and wishes, I say good for you.

[me b zola]

73. Congrats to you. You are a slave

Enjoy

[bluestate10]

76. Get it right. I am a sane slave.

I realize that slitting my wrists while sitting in a hot water most likely will kill me. Vote how you want to vote, you hurt me not. I am a centrist. I won't be one protesting and chaining myself to fences as a rightwing President, SC and Congress rip all progressive change for the last five decades to shreds. Happy protesting.

[RaleighNCDUer]

216. I, OTOH, would rather slit my own wrists than have a supposed friend

do it for me.

[Ikonoklast]

88. And Purity is a losing position. It accomplishes nothing in the real world.

Only the real True Believers refuses to acknowledge that fact.


Please name on instance where that position has ever accomplished one thing, politically.

The lack of political acumen by some here is astounding.

[FredStembottom]

115. The New Deal

The Civil Rights Movement

Abolition of slavery

Worker's Rights

Women's right to vote

Environmental protection.

Food and Drug regulation

Shall I go on?

All very "pure". All very politically unpractical. All accomplished.

You guys who are excited about being rudderless, make me... suspicious.

We were busy uniting here and several have used the moment to damn Progressives and people with ideals in general.

Suspicious.

[Maven]

155. That's right. The New Democrats are all about Impurity.

Lots of impurity, for Raytheon, G.E., and especially Goldman Sachs.

Impurity 2012. Because principles are for unrealistic morons.

:patriot:

[Pholus]

167. An appropriate response to that old "unrealistic expectations" canard. Thank you.

I always love seeing that the principles that made me a Democrat in the first place being described as "unrealistic."

So here is the core credibility problem the apologists have, expressed simply:

1) They tell me that my values are unrealistic, making me question where in fact theirs lie.

2) Negotiations are somehow made behind closed doors by people whose values I don't seem to share by examination of their backgrounds, and a faulted plan with a few good points and more than a few bad points is launched "by compromise." It does sail through to approval by people who previously swore that they would never let it pass. It seems counterintuitive they'd vote against their own interests so what happened? We can't tell because it was behind closed doors.

3) All declare victory and I am told any reservations I have are "unrealistic" expectations.

4) I get confused: is it really "N-dimensional chess" or just plain old "Good cop, bad cop."


Edit -> Subject "that that" changed to "to that"

[Maven]

79. You know, the Republican Party offers the same conservative (cough) uh, "centrist" goodness you love

about today's Democratic Party and much, much more!

[upi402]

72. will do

always have

wont for for corporatists, done with it 100%

[Keith Bee]

75. I'm voting D all the way!

Including the reelection of President Obama.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kalun D]

78. Agree

kick and rec

[jaxx]

80. Count me in and I will vote for President Obama.

[Enthusiast]

82. You will get no argument from me.

I'm with you, MineralMan!

[Tripod]

83. I am fighting at work.

With the dumb ass Republicans.

[indimuse]

84. KNR! n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

85. Well said. I think Obama will probably have a net positive effect in 2012

because the parts of the base who are still loyal to him are likely to turn out in huge numbers which will help Dems down ticket, while the parts of the base which are mad at him will be even madder at the Tea Baggers.

But definitely don't sit the election out because you do not like one candidate. It takes more than one elected official to run a government.

[timtom]

89. Good post!

Good message.

[Scuba]

90. Agreed. n/t

[bigwillq]

93. K and R (nt)

[lunatica]

94. I'll be voting

As always.

[JustAnotherGen]

95. Amen

We all have a better chance of meeting God in the next five minutes than we do of me either sitting out an election or voting for an R or I to 'prove a point'.

I don't know if anyone at DU is really truly good friends with Conservatives - but I am. And one thing two have pointed out to me? "The liberals are getting far more under this admin than we EVER got under Bush. Why the anger?"

My friend KGC in particular points out - she and her husband will not be voting EVER again for that disgraceful Peter King and that if the candidates on the left are agains the Banks and Oil Companies - then that's who they will be voting for.

I sometimes think those of us that would be members of a board in support of the Democratic Party are in a bubble of liberal/progressive people only. . . and we forget how terribly pissed off the TRUE conservatives are - and that they ARE on our side - because they are still pissed that Teaps took over their party. I'm talking about people like my friend KGC - who worships at the altars of Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower.

[DireStrike]

98. And the judges.

Judges provide an important check on wild changes like these union attacks.

[treestar]

99. Absolutely.

Republicans are evil and if anyone doesn't get that now, they are beyond hope.

[highplainsdem]

101. K&R. I agree, and I posted a similar message a few years ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5830196

[MineralMan]

105. Thanks. I just went and read your post.

[FredStembottom]

118. Deeply disappointed with O. Really excited about 2012!

I think I was dreaming to ever expect real help for working Americans from the egregiously corrupt Democrats in D.C. (always with a few exceptions of course).

Wisconsin and Vermont have shown the way.

Come on, DU! It's right in front of us now. It's exciting again!

Take your state-house in 2012! Protect worker's rights. Enact single-payer.

It's fun again.

Our cowardly lions in D.C. can catch up later.

Mineral Man puts it out there every election year here in Minnesota. I wish to be more like him!

[tavalon]

103. That is actually an extremely valid point and well made

You'll get full agreement from this socialist. Damn, though, I do wish the two party thing would go with the dinosaurs and that we could have instant runoff like they do in so many other enlightened countries.

[LoZoccolo]

106. K&R!

:bounce:

Should be on the front page in an hour or two!

[MineralMan]

128. It made it there to the Front Page.

Thanks for your support!

[WillyT]

107. HUGE K & R !!!

:applause::applause::applause:

:kick:

[Fearless]

108. Agreed 100%.

[peace frog]

111. Although you have personally kicked me around in the past

I don't hesitate to say I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

[tabasco]

114. Taking someone to vote with you is a very good idea.

Make sure they get registered too.

[Generic Other]

116. You are asking me to choose "better than nothing"

That sucks.

I think that is what hurts so much with Obama's betrayal of the left. So many let themselves be fooled into thinking he was our champion. I never thought this was true. His Senate days had already convinced me he was a moderate at best. But he was not the nepotistic spouse He was our great hope. Now you are basically saying he's a place holder. Vote for him until something better comes along because we need to keep the office.

There's a rock on one side of me and a hard place on the other.

[pnwmom]

131. No, he isn't. He's not talking about Obama -- he's talking about

Congress.

[Generic Other]

134. Well I am trying to warm up to the idea of voting for someone I find disappointing

I would like to vote for individuals I believe have my best interests and the interests of this country at heart. I hope some of the Democrats fit that bill. I will certainly vote for ones who do. I sure as hell know none of the GOP does.

I am trying really hard to change my own mind on whether to with hold my vote from Obama. That is a major concession for me to make.

[pnwmom]

146. I appreciate your struggle, GO. Everyone should take

these decisions seriously.

[Maraya1969]

119. THANK YOU!! It really pisses me off when a Democrat will throw away

their vote just because they are unhappy with what is going on right at that point. It just gives power to the Rethugs and that is what is causing the problems right now.

Can you imagine what would happen now if McCain were president?

I realize that the whole, "let's take over the country" bullshit that the rethugs are pulling now is horrible but I think it is going to backfire in their faces, as long as we hold ourselves up.

I also think many people have gotten into the Obama derangement syndrome and that is soooo scary. Some Dems are just pissed off with everything he does and that is feeding right into the rethug plan.

We need more rec's on this thread.

[RevStPatrick]

121. Why wait until 2012?!??

There are always local races every year, and yes, there will be elections in 2011.
Here is New York City, we have elections on September 13 and November 8 of 2011.

Voting is NOT a once every 4 years proposition.
That's why we are so fucked over, because people think they only need to participate twice a decade...

[MineralMan]

136. Absolutely. I haven't missed an election since 1968. Not one.

I don't care what it's about, I'm there to vote.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

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[barbtries]

127. yes please

apathy is not an excuse. disgust with the president, oh well. just get democrats in the majority. please.

[Taverner]

133. Aye

And I probably will vote for Obama - the alternative will be enough to scare me

[rhett o rick]

135. To put it simply - Vote for the most progressive candidate.

Work hard in the primaries to get progressive candidates nominated. Then in the general vote for the most progressive candidate.

[MineralMan]

145. You can do that. I will vote for the most progressive candidate

who can win. No third party candidates...ever. They're a false choice in almost every case. Grayson excepted, but he's not in my state.

[pnwmom]

147. Vote for the most progressive candidate who can actually win.

Voting for a progressive third-party candidate who might, if lucky, gain 5% of the vote is the same as throwing your vote away.

[rhett o rick]

161. We badly need instant runoff voting. The lesser of evils bs is killing us. nm

[RedCloud]

137. Mrs. Red Cloud so long denied her right to vote by W, will be voting.

As wiIl I. And my two Red Cloud daughters.

That's three more votes than usual. We will seek out the uninspired and help them.

But if they seem Tea party bound, maybe we won't give them a ride that day!

[MineralMan]

138. Many Thanks to All of You Who Have Responded.

Special thanks to all who have recced this thread. I appreciate it and appreciate your continuing support at the polls! We can win, if we will.

[Bobbie Jo]

139. K&R

:kick:

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

143. Well, OK then...

Have a good day.

[sueh]

144. Right on, Mineral Man!

[whatchamacallit]

148. I will, especially the ones who renounce the disastrous policies of this administration. (nt)

[readmoreoften]

208. Yes, I will reward them as well.

[TreasonousBastard]

150. I agree, except for that part about...

not voting for Obama.

Last election, almost 70 million people voted for him, and I doubt any more than half of the soreheads and purists complaining about him now on "progressive" boards were part of that number. I dismiss them entirely as completely irrelevant.

But, this year I have a county supervisor and a town board to campaign for, and next year I have a President, Senator and a Representative up for re-election. I would hope most of the actual Democrats here and elsewhere yakking up a storm would join me in trying to get as many Democrats, albeit some imperfect ones, elected as we can. This is the year we can begin to capitalize on buyers remorse for teabaggery.

[MineralMan]

156. Thank you for all your efforts. I'll be doing the same.

[Harriety]

152. Yup, great advice....

Let's turn it around and get it back!

[abelenkpe]

153. Completely agree!

I am extremely disappointed but not suicidal. Vote dem wherever possible and don't even leave pres blank cause if there is a recount you don't want there to be any excuse to throw the ballot out.

That said I still want the prez to support labor, support the EPA and move the country towards sustainable clean energy and make the wealthy pay their fair share! N I'm gonna complain loudly about it till he does cause that stuff just needs to happen. :P

[BumRushDaShow]

159. K&R for hitting the straight ticket

and making sure all your reality-show watching, completely tuned-out Democratic friends and family actually go to damn the polls this time! :banghead:

[ismnotwasm]

160. Of course

No plans to do otherwise

[ZombieHorde]

164. First you tell us you don't care what we think, then you try to tell us what to do? Poop off buddy!

Just kidding! Recommended.

[Capitalocracy]

166. Let me just point something out here...

A lot of people on this forum talk in general terms about Obama's performance and its effect on elections, not in personal terms. While some people may be planning not to vote, and I agree with you, they should, a lot of people do plan on voting Democrat but comment on the real-world situation that fewer Dems in general will vote if they don't have a reason to.

But for those who don't plan on voting because of the very real disappointment and disillusionment, I totally agree with your message. They need to at least vote for Congress and local government. Just look at Wisconsin and tell me local elections aren't important! People tend to focus on the national elections and leave the extremely important local elections to chance.

And as for Obama, I wouldn't vote for him in a primary but I'm sure I'd still vote for him in the general election just because all of the people running on the Republican side are just appalling. Not that it makes much difference who I vote for, I vote in Kansas.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredStembottom]

193. Nobody is more disappointed than me. But....

...let's keep O in place as we change state-houses for the better (like they will be in Wisconsin).

O can catch up in January of 2013.

[SaveAmerica]

170. I think (hope, pray) that the people have learned the hard way

I get so mad when I think of the people who worked so hard in '08 but then did nothing in '10 and things got worse locally. Isn't sad that you have to spell it out like that?

[Cherchez la Femme]

173. In those elections

I'll vote straight Democratic unless there is anyone on the ballot who has a real Democratic platform, not this Republican-lite the Dems have been trying --and failing at-- these past decades.

If I see a real old-school, and not just words but backed up with the candidates actions (I've seen that movie before), Democratic platform no matter what letter they're running under,
hell yeah, I'm voting for them.


Do I expect to see any? Sadly, not really;
so most if not all times I'll have to reinforce this new, devolved, Democratic Party.

[Scurrilous]

175. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Phlem]

178. To do anything else

would mean our own demise.

I was hoping that would have happened last time, but I guess sometimes we have to vocalize it.

You might add, annoy republicans with the truth every chance one gets.

-p

[lildreamer316]

180. I can get on board with this. n/t

[democracy1st]

184. K & R

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

198. I'll vote for representatives that reflect the leadership I desire - regardless of their party.

Personally, I don't think they should put party letters next to ANY names on thd ballot. Voters should have to know candidates stances on the ISSUES rather than what letter their supposed to vote for. The two party system, and the culture that propogates it, is responsible for america's race to the bottom. Eventually, you end up voting for the lesser evil instead of the better candidate.

Ever wonder how we ended up with "democrats" that are further right than republicans from the 1970's? By doing exactly what you propose in your OP.
Vote on the issues... not the parties.

[stevenleser]

204. Nope, you have it backwards

we "ended up with "democrats" that are further right than republicans from the 1970's" because the electorate moved to the right. The Democrats will always be looking for the position that gets them 50.001% or more of the vote by getting the left half of the country's electorate +1 (or more). If their positions only get 23% of the vote because they are too left, then they wont go for those positions.

If you want Democrats to be further left, you have to be part of the solution that helps pull the electorate to the left.

[readmoreoften]

209. Bullshit. The Republican strategy won over Democrats.

Democrats couldn't be bothered to actually come up with a platform, and instead have cozied up to banking cartels. They're a disaster. The American people have not "gone to the right." It's just a fantasy excuse offered by right-wing Democrats so they can continue to get their kickbacks from the insurers and the finance industry.

The Democrats are so far right that they're basically enacting the Bush Doctrine at this point. Obama was elected on leftist rhetoric and has handed the government over to Gates, Bernanke, Summers, Duncan, and his thug friends. He has nothing to do with pushing this country to the "left." What a joke.

[dflprincess]

220. As a rule the electorate is stuck with choosing between the lesser of two evils

and has to decide which corporate whore will do them less damage. It is not the Democratic party that needs to pull the electorate to the left, it is the electorate that needs to make it clear to Democratic politicians that we expect them to represent us, not just their large donors.

[stevenleser]

222. p.s., I can read neither of the two responses from "ignored" n/t

[Scurrilous]

210. Kick

:kick:

[Logical]

218. 100% true

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

221. Seems like a reasonable enough request. I don't see why anyone would get nasty over it. Nt

[Aristus]

223. I can't anymore. Washington State took away my visits to the polls.

Now I have to mail in my ballot, as if I was paying a bill or something. I loved going to the polls. Seeing all the people in line. Signing my name, taking my ballot, filling it out, casting it, thanking the old lady volunteers. It was a treasured, shared cultural experience that I won't get to experience again.

But YES! I'm voting for President Obama, and EVERY Democrat on the ballot.

Liberal till I DIE, motherfuckers! :-) :headbang: