Libyan rebels 'receiving covert training'

[EFerrari]

Source: Al Jazeera

Rebel source tells Al Jazeera about training offered by US and Egyptian special forces in eastern Libya.
Last Modified: 02 Apr 2011 19:22

US and Egyptian special forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told.

An unnamed rebel source related how he had undergone training in military techniques at a "secret facility" in eastern Libya.

He told our correspondent Laurence Lee reporting from the rebel-stronghold of Benghazi that he was sent to fire Katyusha rockets but was given a simple, unguided version of the rocket instead.


"He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He didn't say they were sourced from Egypt, but that was their route through.

Read more: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html

---

Video clip at link.

[daleo]

1. And so it escalates. n/t

[Baclava]

6. Katyusha rockets - I guess we're teaching which way to point them

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. If it's covert, how do we know about it?

Let's face it, it's about oil.

If Qadaffi had just played ball with the multinationals, and allowed in exploration teams from other countries, and pumped about as much as he could—say as much as at any time since 1980—we wouldn’t be trying to overthrow him now. And he refused to do so.

It’s his own damn fault—we can’t get the oil from anybody but the rebels. This is what doomed him.

Oh, wait....

[joshcryer]

5. Al Jazeera is fuckawesome, that's how. The guy they got the info from...

...appears to be known within Al Jazeera and he probably did get some sort of training.

But, we know that officials in the US (under the guise of "transparency" or more likely to score political points) did say that this was happening.

So this is not new to anyone following it, except for the part about Egypt's for sure involvement.

[EFerrari]

7. Gaddafi says looking at oil firm nationalization

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/01/21/businessproind-us-libya-gaddafi-oil-idUKTRE50K61F20090121

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. It's not like he's not received...

...some recent 'encouragement'.

Big oil would have been just as happy to have him stay in power. They've done business with him successfully since the lifting of the embargo. Libya pumped more oil in 2006 than at any time since 1980, and exploration for more was ongoing.

Which is why big oil made the US and NATO countries back the rebels, whom they don't have in their pocket, and with whom they have no pre-existing arrangements. For all they know, the rebels might nationalize. So big oil backs the rebels through its proxies.

The logic is impeccable.

[EFerrari]

10. The first thing the "rebels" did out of the gate is cut

an oil deal under the direction of the US government.

Shouldn't that be a major clue for the fans of this "humanitarian intervention"?

Good grief.

[joshcryer]

16. "First thing"? "Direction of the US government"?

They didn't do this for a month. They had to get permission because the UN sanctioned Libya, had they done it without permission they would have put Qatar under risk of fines and whatnot.

They have every right to use their territory how they see fit if it supports their advance against the tyrant.

[TheWraith]

23. Would you care to post proof of that?

Because otherwise, there's no reason to think it's not bullshit.

[EFerrari]

24. Here you go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4790867

[TheWraith]

27. Uh huh. And proof that the US government was secretly behind it?

And how do you address the fact that Libya was already selling oil to the west via BP?

[joshcryer]

28. I love that the intrim council is *not* selling oil from Brega or Ras Lanuf.

That intrim council is playing shit so smooth it's ridiculous. :rofl:

[bvar22]

34. That makes no difference.

The major Oil Corporations have been above National Boundaries for many years.
They are GLOBAL.
Once the oil leaves the country of origin, it BELONGS to the Global Oil Corporations, not any particular country.

It is foolish to try and argue that since the Oil goes to Qatar, its A-OK.
Its is just as foolish to try and argue that since Britain & France are "taking the lead" its not about the USA.
Thats just a Shell Game.
The USA now works FOR the Global Oil Corporations.
Our Military and the blood of our poorer classes are at their disposal to protect the interests, and enhance the profits of..... the Global Oil Corporations.
Thats the WAY it IS.

Its not like we are going over there to get the oil for the American People.
The American People will PAY for the Military Intervention,
but the Global Oil Corporations will Get the Oil whether it is transported to Qatar...or anywhere else.
Then the Global Oil Corporations will SELL it to the the same people who paid for the Military Intervention.
Some scam, eh?
This one would make Milo Minderbinder blush.

I have seen no figures, but it is MY bet that "The Rebels" (LOL) are selling "their" oil at the old price...
you know, the old price before Qaddafi raised it in 2009 and demanded the the Global Corporations return some of their profit to Libya ($5.4 BILLION in 2009).

Qatar or Bumfukistan...it makes no difference.
It ultimately goes to the same place, and the profits go into the same pockets.

[joshcryer]

35. It makes a huge difference. Brega and Ras Lanuf were both contested territories.

It shows that they're not selling oil that they don't legitimately own but is rather being contested in a war.

[EFerrari]

29. There's no secrecy involved. It's been right out there in the open.

Qatar recognizes the rebels and cuts a deal.

Qatar recognizes Libyan rebel body as legitimate

Energy-rich Qatar was the first Arab country to join patrols in the U.N.-backed no-fly zone over Libya last Friday -- a move that helped the United States to argue that the Western-led air strikes have Arab support.

"There was pressure exerted by the Americans, who are clearly looking for Arab participants," said a source in Doha familiar with Qatari diplomacy. "The four planes (supplied by Qatar) are of no importance, just a gesture."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/28/us-libya-qatar-idUSTRE72R1J820110328

It's all very friendly. :)

[Turborama]

32. They were looking for Arab participation in the intervention, to add weight to its legitimacy...

...in the region. They'd already got support from 219 Arab organizations (in fact they were the 1st ones calling for a no-fly zone back in February): http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Turborama/605

They needed actual participants as well. Lebanon put their support behind the resolution, and so far Qatar, Turkey and the UAE are helping militarily.

There's nothing there proving your assertion that the pro-democracy fighters cut "an oil deal under the direction of the US government."

[EFerrari]

37. Let's see. "US says Libyans may sell oil"

Reuters
Published 10:07 PM, 28 Mar 2011 Last update 6:56 AM, 29 Mar 2011

WASHINGTON - The United States gave a green light to sales of Libyan crude oil from rebel-held territory, giving a potential boost to forces battling Muammar Gaddafi.

A US Treasury Department official said that since Libyan rebels are not subject to sanctions against Gaddafi, they can sell oil under their control after retaking a number of oil fields and terminals in eastern Libya over the weekend.

"The rebels are not part of the government of Libya. They are not subject to the sanctions," the official said.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/FACTBOX-Libya-oil-production-outage-exports-custom-FDEVT?OpenDocument&src=hp10

You're welcome.

[Turborama]

41. They are UN sanctions, not the US Treasury Department's. It's very arrogant of them to think it was

up to them, don't you think?

[Turborama]

33. As I said in that thread, Qatar have experience&wherewithal to help them restart their oil industry

It makes perfect sense and there's no conspiracy about it. That article was from Al Jazeera.

[Turborama]

31. They were totally open and transparent that it was Qatar, a big oil producer, they were working with

Not the US.

Oil is one of their only sources of income and they have a lot of it, as you know.

What are they going to do, just let it sit there?

[joshcryer]

40. Actually, most of their oil will go to running eastern Libya. Qatar will only get 10k bbd.

Or something tiny like that. I can find the source if you want, but I'm 99% sure in that number.

[Turborama]

42. That's what I was trying to say. Thanks for making it clearer.

A source is always gratefully received, they can come in really handy sometimes.

:hi:

[daleo]

11. The rebels will be in the west's debt, for the air power and other assistance

So they will cut a sweet deal, to show their appreciation and because they know their western allies could turn on them too. That's the reasoning, and it's how most people think about things most of the time.

You scratch my back, and all that.

[joshcryer]

17. Typical war reparations. They have $150 billion sitting around thanks to Gaddafi's hoarding.

The war costs will be trivial in comparison to the costs of Gaddafi's city razing (see Misrata).

[TheWraith]

22. Actually, Qadaffi HAS been playing ball big time lately.

An oil deal with BP was how he got the Lockerbie bomber sprung from jail.

[Davis_X_Machina]

36. That's unpossible.

Wouldn't you just be happier jumping up and down shouting "No blood for oil"?

Knowing stuff just makes things complicated.

[EFerrari]

38. Too complicated, apparently.

[jakeXT]

3. Unit 777

Egypt 'aids Libyan rebels against Gadhafi'
Published: March. 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM

BEIRUT, Lebanon, March 9 (UPI) -- Egypt, still grappling with a revolution that toppled President Hosni Mubarak in February, is reported to be quietly aiding rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

This is seen as part of a drive by the transitional regime in Cairo to restore Egypt's leadership of the Arab world.
PHOTOS: The revolt in Libya

While the United States and the international community debate whether to intervene in the civil war raging in Libya to support the ragtag rebel forces holding the east of the country, Egypt apparently has sent around 100 Special Forces troops to help the insurgents.

...

Arab sources say that the Egyptian commandoes are most likely from Unit 777 of the Egyptian army's Special Operations Command set up in the late 1970s. Unit 777's 250-300 personnel trains with Germany's elite GSG-9 counter-terrorism force, the U.S. Army's Delta Force and France's GIGN, special operations arm of the National Gendarmerie.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2011/03/09/Egypt-aids-Libyan-rebels-against-Gadhafi/UPI-42161299696518/#ixzz1IOmTd8RC

[joshcryer]

4. Thanks for this. Egypt's arming of the rebels has been confirmed and denied a bunch.

This would be the first report I've seen that appears to be legit.

[jzodda]

9. Good news

As obviously these rebels need training more than anything. Right now they are nothing more than rabble and cannon fodder.

Hopefully they have some officers getting trained in how to lead men.

What good is air cover if they can't fight?

[EFerrari]

12. Right, because leadership is something we have to *teach*

to the poor benighted peoples of lesser countries. :sarcasm:

[joshcryer]

15. Huh? Reading fail?

[jzodda]

19. It's probably not us doing the teaching

more likely the french

and as far as your statement...Its illogical and sounds a bit naive.

you need trained military personal to train civilians in how to fight. During our own revolution many of our militia were trained by french soldiers. How else does one learn how to fight? Just charge and hope for the best? Use brains!

[EFerrari]

25. Whoooooooooooosh.

In fact, it's the US and the Egyptians training and arming the rebels. But, who's counting.

[daleo]

13. Can you train an army in a couple of weeks?

I think this will lead to a lot more involvement than a few trainers. I mean boots on the ground, and lots of them.

[joshcryer]

14. They need dicipline above all else.

They've already retaken Brega, and that's simply by stopping rebels without weapons from joining the front lines. :rofl:

Yes, I'm serious, and it's true, the rebels were originally fighting with a bunch of civilians driving around with no weapons! No wonder they "retreated" for almost 1k km!

[jzodda]

20. weeks? No way

each unit will need 12-16 weeks training to be effective I would say. They need training in disciple, how to use the weapons, command and control and unit cohesion. This takes time.

It will require boots on the ground and I believe the French will be doing just that backed by the Brits and possibly us.

The rebels are imo highly motivated unlike the soldiers we have been training in Afghanistan. This is a good place to start-when you have potential soldiers who really want to fight and have something to fight for.

[dipsydoodle]

18. Lesson One

Which end to hold a hammer.

[Taft_Bathtub]

21. Sweet, this totally worked in Afghanistan in the 80s

Oh wait...

[EFerrari]

26. It's worked everywhere we've tried it.

Viet Nam, Iran, Nicaragua, Afghanistan -- oh, wait . . .

[Turborama]

30. March-20 " British Special Forces Have Been On The Ground In Libya For Weeks"

Posted in GD here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=699750

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Will Obama be wearing socks when he announces "Mission Accomplished"?