Women sure are impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike creatures, aren't they?

[kpete]

Behind the abortion laws: From bills, a disturbing portrait of women emerges
Published: Saturday, April 02, 2011, 4:40 PM
By Susan Nielsen, The Oregonian


Women sure are impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike creatures, aren't they? That's the conclusion I'd draw, if my understanding of women were based solely on anti-abortion bills.

These bills are pending and passing at a disturbing pace in multiple states. They don't just reflect the nation's chronic and understandable ambivalence about abortion. They also paint a shockingly negative portrait of women.

Here are a few key messages gleaned from the latest bills and anti-abortion advocacy:

* Women are impulsive
* Women need things explained to them.
* Women are prone to lying
* Women of color need extra scrutiny.
......................


Ladies, the rest is here:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2011/04/behind_the_abortion_laws_from.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Not far off from the assumptions about women's characters per fundamentalist Muslims.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Fundies here are being called the American Taliban.

A phrase we, perhaps, should be using more universally.

[yardwork]

54. All fundamentalist religions perceive and treat women this way. It's called patriarchy.

[me b zola]

69. Yes, it doesn't matter which religion, just the level of fundamentalism

[yardwork]

71. Agreed.

[kestrel91316]

88. But Mom, HE did it too......WAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

[Enthusiast]

99. They stem from the same origin.

Both come from ancient Middle East fertility cults.

[olegramps]

101. Remember that women in the U.S. only won the right to vote in 1920 and millions opposed it.

[no_hypocrisy]

110. Including President Woodrow Wilson, allegedly a "progressive".

[northernlights]

2. they left out that women are intrinsically immoral and irresponsible

Young people take credit cards for granted.

They don't remember the time -- way back in the 60s and 70s -- when women weren't granted credit cards in their own name because "everybody knew" that women were too irresponsible and immoral, so couldn't be trusted to pay the bills. There was a time that the *only* way a woman got her name on a charge card or credit card was beneath her husband's name.

[1monster]

29. And if they were widowed or divorced, the credit card would be canceled and she

would not be issued one in her own name. And that went on even into the eighties.

[knitter4democracy]

62. Hell, that happened to me two years ago.

No one would give me a card in my own name after being a stay-at-home mom for 9 years and my ex leaving us. My dad had to sign for it. I will never forget that humiliation.

[SheilaT]

73. I was a stay at home mom for

25 years, and the entire time I maintained credit in my own name. I never changed my name when I was married, which possibly made it easier.

[trud]

104. thank you now defunct American Savings and Loan

which gave me, a single woman, a mortgage so I could buy a house in the 70s.

[WhiteTara]

4. women are evil and want to kill at the first opportunity

women are stupid
women need to be controlled



BTW, I'm no lady. I'm a woman and I am dangerous.

[niyad]

7. that is what they fear--that we are, in fact, dangerous--and that, given any kind of freedom or

power, we will treat men the way they have treated women these last several thousand years.

[Scout]

12. +10,000,000 n/t

[WhiteTara]

23. Brave women fear nothing. Brave men fear

women.

We are indeed powerful creatures. We hold the power of life and death in our bellies.

The first art outside a cave found was from about 50-60,000 ago. It was a picture of a woman giving birth.

Appx 6 million women died so that we would say, "God the father."

When asked what the worst thing a man could do to a woman, the answer was "kill me".
When asked what the worst thing a woman could do to a man, the answer was "laugh at me"

Indeed, we are powerful creatures. Clarissa Pinkola-Estes has a new work called "The Dangerous Old Woman." I can hardly wait to get this so I can find out how to be more dangerous...by that I mean, free.

[Hydra]

33. Brave men don't fear anything either

Which explains a lot, don't you think?

[uppityperson]

37. Exactly right. Those who fear women aren't particularly brave, just fearful, manipulative, controlli

[Hydra]

117. Fear makes you do ugly things

And the fearful like company.

[Beartracks]

49. Awesome statement!

"Brave women fear nothing. Brave men fear women."

Can I put that on a t-shirt for my online shop?

-------------------------------

[Egnever]

56. But a complete crock

[uppityperson]

57. Seriously. Why would men fearing women be a good thing? That is one of the issues this whole thing

men fear women so keep them down. Why not have men and women simply.....respect each other?

[Egnever]

58. Got me in fact i think it would work against the above posters desires

People denigrate what they fear. It happens time and again.

The above poster seems to want to empower women which I am all for but the idea that men fear empowered women is a crock of well we all know whats in that crock.

Some hell lots of men likely do fear a powerfull woman but I sure as hell dont fear one any more than I would fear a powerful man.

"Why not have men and women simply.....respect each other?"

Cause then we couldnt have cool slogans like brave women fear nothing and brave men are all really just tools!

[uppityperson]

59. +1

Slogans are good for a moment, but don't do much for reality often

[ProfessionalLeftist]

76. . . .

You guys have already lost the entire plot. :rofl:

[WhiteTara]

114. okay, maybe it was a bit harsh

and hyperbolic. That is the problem with globalizing..not everyone fits into that structure. So, that should have at a minimum said, MOST...but, I didn't. Oops. Sorry to get you going there.

Men are not tools anymore than women...but the male species has had the reins for so long, their flaws glare.

[uppityperson]

121. And women who get in power feeling they must have those same flaws are wrong also

I really dislike it when someone gets the reins and feels they have to act like assholes. Women doing it upset me as much as men.

[WhiteTara]

113. I don't think it's a good idea

for men to fear women. I wonder why, when the scales are so tilted in their favor. It is, to me, another of "those mysteries"

I'd love for men and women to respect each other. I feel grateful that I live in such a relationship. I really think that is one of the things we're supposed to learn on this plane.
We each hold up half the sky as the world is seen through both our eyes.

[uppityperson]

123. Thanks and I agree. Women who get in power and then feel they must act like men who are assholes

are just as bad as the men. I don't know why the male/female thing is so tilted, it is indeed a mystery that is annoying. When I came to DU I had my gender disabled, wanted to be taken as a person, not as an uppity woman (though my name was originally going to be uppity b*). I finally changed it to show me as female since was being uppity and blunt and being called "dude".

I'd love for people to respect each other, accept and like our differences, of all sorts. Age, gender, orientation, skin color, hair color, style, beliefs, etc. So long as you don't hurt people, don't hurt things, it is all window dressing and not sure why people so fear each other. I also don't like the perpetuation of "us vs them" throughout so much. I am not sure if humanity is slightly removed from continually warring species or heading back towards it all the time.

Humanity isn't very human often, hasn't evolved their emotions to match their technological achievements.

rambling on

[Beartracks]

115. OK, scratch that idea. :) n/t

[defendandprotect]

77. Marvelous - thank you !!

[Tumbulu]

63. YOU got it!

I think that is it exactly.

[blm]

5. Of course, because GOP and Taliban share the same view of women. The only females the GOP likes

are the women who are willing to repeat whatever GOP men want repeated. Especially if they can wink and flirt at the same time.

[WhiteTara]

24. And they don't really like them, either.

They are happy to use them in any way they can, but like them? I sincerely doubt it.

When I saw your headline, my thought was "Mother" and then I thought no, not her. Maybe their whore, but then I thought, no, not her. They don't like any woman.

[uncle ray]

6. all true of course.

of course men are much worse.

[ananda]

8. Ermm...

So where's the logic in forcing them to have babies, you know, if
women are so lacking in good character traits?

Sheesh.

[niyad]

9. well, somebody has to bear the new cannon fodder

[Keith Bee]

10. No

:eyes:

[Kurmudgeon]

11. Interesting, do you have quotes from the bills in question with those statements?

If so, then the bill writer was an incompetent and shouldn't be in office.
For some, it's nothing directed against women in animosity, just the basic fact that abortion ends an innocent human life and in some folks eyes, that is murder. Some don't want to be a party to that kind of thing, either personally or with their tax dollars.
This, naturally, doesn't include instances of rape or birth defect.
However, your 4 "messages" are basically troll bait and have no basis in reality, except perhaps in the mind of a very few on either side of the abortion issue.

[Scout]

13. "abortion ends an innocent human life and in some folks eyes, that is murder"

too damn bad for them. their beliefs are not sufficient justification for interference with my personal medical decisions.

[defendandprotect]

78. +1000% -- but killing actual people by wars, drones, torture, etal is somehow noble -- !!

[kpete]

14. right here:

quotes from the bills:

with links:

HERE: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/susan_nielsen/index.ssf/2011/04/behind_the_abortion_laws_from.html

[Kurmudgeon]

34. Author of the article, quoting herself.

However, let's go down the list.
1. It's a 1 to 3 day wait, nothing medical should be rushed unless it's a clear and present emergency.
2. In this case, both the author of this article and the sponsor of the bill are guilty of hyperbole.
3. Are you really ready to assume that everyone is of equal intelligence and emotional stability?
If so, no wonder you're ready to assume an abortion is just some quick and easy medical procedure with no potential
long harm term to the mother, either physical or mental.
4. Counseling is hardly torture.
5. Uterine cancer is the most common cancer of a woman's reproductive system. Do you want the doctor to ignore that for expediency's sake?
6. This is the 1st I've heard of a racial preference, so I can't and won't speak to that.
The rest is just the author using prejudicial assumptions to back up the fact their decision is already made.

If it was any other medical situation, a little care before hand would be viewed as common sense.
The prejudicial remarks belong to the author and as such, are suspect.
They are quotes from the author, NOT the bills.

[uppityperson]

41. Let's go down your list

1. Is there a mandated waiting period before having a mole removed in a clinic? Then why should there be for having an abortion in that same clinic?

2. Hyperbole perhaps in saying women are "impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike creatures", however that is how these bills treat them.

3. Are you really ready to assume that you or an untrained person is more capable of providing education and counseling to a woman seeking an abortion? Most abortions are quick and easy medical procedure with no long term harm to the woman, either physical or mental. If you disagree, please post a link to a reputable source stating so.

4. Counseling is not usual torture, but most of those "pregnancy crisis centers" are staffed by avid anti-choice people who put extreme pressure on women to not have an abortion. As you stated "Are you really ready to assume that everyone is of equal intelligence and emotional stability?"

The one woman I know who highly regretted her abortion is one who mistakenly wandered into one of these places. They convinced her to not get a 1st trimester abortion by pressuring her, guilt tripping her, calling her at home and threatening to tell others about her since they were not regulated by HIPPA privacy laws. She ended up getting a second trimester abortion instead, said it was the worst thing she'd ever gone through and now donates to NARAL and volunteers for women's health issues like this.

5. Where did you find anything about uterine cancer? The only cancer mentioned is breast cancer, which some states mandate women be warned that can be caused by abortions. That "fact" being said is false by the National Cancer Institute. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/abortion-miscarriage

6. Why should a woman have to attest race has no part of her desire for getting an abortion? Do you seriously believe ANYONE has ANY right to say ANYTHING like that to her?

Prejudicial assumptions? snort. "If it was any other medical situation, a little care before hand would be viewed as common sense. " Guess what. There is care before, and after, as well as during, an abortion. Except for back alley abortionists, which we are working to stop. Believe me. I know. I've listened, counseled, listened, educated, listened, referred, listened, assisted at many abortions.

Perhaps visiting a Planned Parenthood or private provider's clinic might educate you a tiny bit.

[chervilant]

89. Gosh...

I think you give that person way too much credit if you think he/she could remove the blinders that are so very common among the "Christian" anti-abortionists.

Do you find it fascinating that the more we humans F**K things up, the more vociferously some of us cling to our religious mythologies?

[uppityperson]

109. meh, I was in a good mood yesterday.

I doubt he/she will ever come back and read what I wrote, but you just never know. I find that type attitude more prevalant amongst the fearful and the more fearful of times for people, the more they cling to those attitudes.

[xmas74]

44. In 1994

I drove a friend over the state line. We had to go over the state line because it was quite hard for her to obtain an abortion in our state. If we had to wait 1-3 days it wouldn't have happened-there was barely enough money to cover the procedure, not including a hotel stay. If she hadn't had an abortion she probably wouldn't be here with us today.

Her ex beat her on a daily basis. Daily. She barely escaped with her life. She came back home, found out she was pregnant and went down to DFS. They said that they would have to contact the father with her location if she wanted any assistance. If he found out where she was hiding he would have shot her. (We hid her at a different place every other day for a couple of months-just moved her back and forth between ten places.) We all threw in some money together and gave it to her to pay for the abortion. It was the only way she'd be able to live her life without him.

Wanna know how she is now? It's been almost 17 years now and she's married with three children. She has a master's degree. She is active in her community. She's happy and healthy.

(BTW-the "counseling" they gave her? It was horrible for her. They made her look at the screen and they made her say the word "baby". When I started to argue with them they kicked me out of the room, even after explaining to the tech about the circumstances. In our conversations she has stated that the counseling was the worst part because they made her feel subhuman.)

[defendandprotect]

80. "You can't wake up a man pretending to be asleep" --

Amazing to hear these stories -- thanks for the post!

:)

[xmas74]

82. What's amazing to me is that

when people hear these stories they still want to put an end to abortion rights in the United States.

[defendandprotect]

83. It's a mindset --Who ever said that religion is good for mental health?

:evilgrin:

[xmas74]

True.

It also depends on the religion. I know that my church isn't in such an uproar over abortion, compared to most of the churches around me. Right now they're thinking about making flood buckets and sending medical supplies to other countries, not what an American woman wants to do to her body. It's legal and that's that. Why some churches get so bent over it I'll never understand.

[defendandprotect]

87. Male-surpemacists have always interferred with reproductive freedom --

Nature is pro-choice and supplied myriad numbers of plants -- which are our medicines --

all over the planet to serve as birth control, ways to interrupt conception, ways to

increase fertility or to END fertility, etal.

Nature provides the ERASER for sperm --

Pretty much all of these plants and women's wisdom were targeted over thousands of years

and destroyed. We still know that lemon kills sperm.

We know that RU486 is based on a plant which I think the women in the South Seas Islands

long used to bring on an abortion -- it's from the papaya plant -- and it keeps the egg

from adhereing to the lining of the womb.

Generally, it seems clear that men have always been at war with Nature because she has

placed her trust in women to be the childbears and childtakers --

and thus also at war with women --

Men have also long sought the artificial womb -- which would bring about a transference

of power!!


Ah, Frankestein -- and Mary Shelley!!

[xmas74]

116. Bravo!

:applause:

The options have always been there and they have always been in use. Limiting options is all about wielding power.

[uppityperson]

46. "It's a 1 to 3 day wait, nothing medical should be rushed unless it's a clear and present emergency"

One of the biggest problems with this is abortion providers are becoming few and far between. It takes time and money to not only get to where one is, but to have to stay there for days during the "cool down" period, or else to have to travel there again.

When I was young, there were 2 states in which you could get a legal abortion. California and New York. I was midway between. It cost enough to get there and having to then hang out, or return in 3 days, would make the cost almost prohibitive. My friend whose father took her to NY for her abortion had been seen by her doctor where she lived, gotten the tests, exam, etc. There would be NO need for her to then have to see the provider and wait 3 more days.

It is not quite that bad yet, but it could get there unless we continue to work to make that not happen.

[defendandprotect]

79. Those wouldn't be your religious views, by any chance?

Author of the article, quoting herself.

There is no precedent for any "counseling" in any other medical procedure.

And any "wait" can cause serious problems for the female seeking an abortion ---

EVEN if it has nothing to do with medical necessity. Many women now have to

travel great distance, many have other children, other responsiblities -- including

not only households to run, but jobs outside the home.

Where is the evidence that men are capable of making decisions about sending young men

off to wars? Or about nuclear bombs or nuclear reactrs -- or about drilling for oil?

About being responsible in making decisions about our environment, pollution, energy?

There is only chaos to show for the effort by males to establish male-supremacy.

Chaos and violence.

Perhaps we need some "counseling" for our presidents who tell us "oil rigs don't leak,

anymore!"

Or for our elected officials who take bribes from corporations and do their bidding?

Maybe we need counseling for W, Obama and other government officials who have paved the

way for giving taxpayer money to "faith-based" religions? Obviously, they really don't

understand democracy and self-government or Separation of Church & State?

This is about male fear of losing control over women -- and they well understand that

unwanted pregnancies are a way to do that.

These are all simply ways to try to prevent abortion -- by interferring with the decisions

made by women to have abortions.

Keep in mind that Catholic women, for one, have just as many abortions as any other women.

That's why the RCC seeks to try to regain control over women by influencing government --

[enlightenment]

17. The ability to think critically is necessary to grasp how

those 'messages' may be drawn from the passage of these backward and draconian bills. That you apparently cannot grasp that says more about your ability to think critically than it does about the messages being 'troll bait' and having 'no basis in reality'.

In the real world, not everything is completely spelled out and it requires a certain degree of thoughtfulness - rather than knee-jerk reflexiveness - to understand what is being said.

[kiva]

18. If you believe that abortion is murder,

then it is still murder in the cases of rape or birth defects.

I have never understood how someone can really believe that abortion is the death of a human being but make exceptions to make their position more politically palatable. I utterly, totally, completely disagree with people who want a blanket ban (or any ban) on abortion, but have more respect for their position than for those who say they believe it is murder, but are OK with it in some cases so that they sound 'reasonable.'

And if you think this OP is troll bait and respond, well...

[Book Lover]

26. Thank you for saying more coherently than I what I wanted to say (nm)

[kiva]

43. You're welcome...and thanks for the compliment.

[Mariana]

28. I have always felt that way, too.

It's not legal to murder born people with retardation or other birth defects, or whose fathers are rapists or are related to their mothers. Not one "pro-life" person who claims to oppose abortion because it is murder (but let's allow it under these circumstances)
would ever say it should be legal to kill those people after they're born.

[kiva]

42. Exactly.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhiannon55]

20. So, how you you feel about food stamps and welfare payments

for those "innocent human lives" after they're born?

I thought so. :eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. "some folks"

Own up, will you?

[uppityperson]

38. Do you seriously believe women getting abortions don't know what they are doing?

Did you know your "tax dollars" don't pay for abortions and haven't for a long time thanks to the Hyde amendment? I bet you didn't know that.

Women are impulsive
* Women need things explained to them.
* Women are prone to lying
* Women of color need extra scrutiny.

IMPULSIVE
Have they not given thought into what they are doing and why? Did they wake up that morning and think "Oh, maybe I'll have an abortion today. Or get my nails done. Which to do?" Are they that impulsive?

NEED THINGS EXPLAINED
Why should a woman seeking and abortion have to be "counseled" by an anti-choice person? Is an untrained anti-choice person the BEST person to explain things to them or is their health care provider? Should women seeking gall bladder surgery then be mandated to be "counseled" by untrained people?

LIARS
Why should a woman have to explain why they are seeking an abortion? Is it right to pass legislation mandating only a few instances in which an abortion is allowed? Why is an abortion ok if you were raped but not if you weren't? "abortion ends an innocent human life". Is that "innocent human life" so much less worthy of saving simply because of how it began?
How should women have to prove they really were raped?

Women sure are impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike creatures

Are they that vulnerable that they need "assistance" from an untrained person with a mandate to convince them to not get an abortion to help them make sure they aren't getting pressured by anyone else? Seriously?

Why should a woman getting and abortion be mandated a 3 day waiting period, "cooling off" time, before getting an abortion? Do they not know what they are doing? Are they that ignorant? Have they not considered what they are doing? Was it an impulsive decision?

OP has it right on.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Murder is a legal term and abortion is not murder in this country. USA! USA! USA!

It's actually a LEGAL medical procedure.

[uppityperson]

48. "your 4 "messages" are basically troll bait and have no basis in reality, except perhaps in the..."

"your 4 "messages" are basically troll bait and have no basis in reality, except perhaps in the mind of a very few"

And since you are the only one who has replied in the negative, this makes you....?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

50. Yes. Your logic is irrefutable. And it yields a correct assessment. -nt

[AlbertCat]

66. don't want to be a party to that kind of thing, either personally or with their tax dollars.

I'd rather not be a party to useless wars for oil (which kills sentient, knowing, human lives that are doing things in the world, unlike a fetus.), or the subsidizing of religions, personally or with my tax dollars.

But a lot of people don't seem to care about that. Do you?

[Maru Kitteh]

85. "This, naturally, doesn't include instances of rape or birth defect"

So, you think it's ok to murder people for being defective.

You also think it's ok to murder people for the sins of their father.

How utterly intellectually dishonest of you.


Abortion laws are about the control and punishment of women. Period.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

111. But, you know, it's not him, it's "some folks".

Yeah, right. :eyes:

[ohheckyeah]

86. Too friggin' bad if they don't want to be party

to 'that kind of thing'. My tax money goes to pay the bills for wars that I find immoral.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. Come N' Get It!

Here Boy!

[Hugabear]

119. Think I'm gonna pull up a chair and grab some popcorn for this one

:popcorn:

This should be fun

[Overseas]

15. Sad K&R. I am glad the article puts them all together.

I've been hearing about the separate GOP attempts to win the votes of the "freedom loving" far right by restricting women's freedom more and more. It is helpful to see them all lined up and to examine the assumptions they represent.

[Zoeisright]

16. The bill "allows women to close their eyes and cover their ears"???

That's actually IN the bill? Good Christ, I'm surprised they don't have someone there holding the woman's eyes open and holding her hands down so she HAS to see and hear this crap. This country is so backward and stupid.

[ThomCat]

19. Oh, the sexist, racist arrogance behind the bills and laws is grotesque!

Women apparently are not considered intelligent enough to decide for themselves when, and whether or not to have sex, and Definitely aren't responsible enough to know that they should always go through with the pregnancy and have a(nother) baby.

But raising a child apparently doesn't require any intelligence or responsibility at all. They seem to think "How could it, if any woman can do it?" (of course, that's so easy to say when their sexist world-view guarantees that none of these guys will ever have to even try to help raise their own children.)

They think that all a woman has to do is just get off your lazy butts and try, and somehow that magically makes everything work out, so women don't need any help. Helping is apparently just encouraging women to be lazy and self-indulgent.

That's why they think it is necessary for all of their "good men" to pry into the sex lives of women, and force women to carry all their pregnancies to term against their wishes.

And that's why, as all those unwanted children are born, the anti-choicers think it is perfectly acceptable for them (and society) to just leave women without any help to raise those children without worrying about how any of the mothers or children are doing.

They believe that God will provide for the children. And for the mother too, IF they are worthy. So if a mother ends up in desperate poverty, starving, in unsafe situations, sick, it's because she wasn't deserving of God's care. It's HER fault. The lack of help had nothing to do with it.

How could the lack of help have anything to do with anything. They think, it's not as if she had a difficult job. After all, how hard could it be to raise children if women can do it?

That's one of the bottom line beliefs that really makes me want to choke so many of these people. Not only the belief that they have a right to meddle in the lives of other. Not only the belief that fetuses are so all-important until they are born, but unworthy of consideration afterward. But also that underlying belief that motherhood is so EASY that anyone can and should be able to do it without any help or assistance, resources, skills training of any kind, or support network. x(

What makes ideals like these so incredibly ugly is that None of these ideas, that probably seem like caricature and crude buffoonery here, would seem unreasonable or out of place on a lot of so-called "right to life" sites. None of these ideas are uncommon. :(

I remember thinking, decades ago, when it was a daily occurrence to Pro-choice networks and alliances going toe-to-toe in the street against "right-to-life" thugs, that we might be winning the war of ideas against these anti-choice nuts. I remember thinking that their beliefs were so absurd and hateful that there was no possible way that they were going to gain a permanent place in society in enough people's head-space to get any level of political power. We were going to gradually, but continually wear them down, expose them, and win as feminist values took root.

I'm so surprised and disheartened that their beliefs gained more traction than ours, and we're fighting so hard to try to regain lost ground. How can so many people take shit like this seriously? How? :(

[Demeter]

21. Just a Classic Case of Projection

By the impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike "men" who write these laws.

[Lorien]

25. One thing you can always count on from a repug; projection of their every "quality"

onto those they hate most.

[kag]

53. "By the impulsive, lying, vulnerable and childlike "men" who write these laws."

And women! That's what gets me. Women who are "smart" enough to get elected to Congress, but have so little respect for themselves and their gender that they go along with, or in some cases even sponsor, this horrendous legislation.

[undeterred]

22. And we need to be told to think and given several days to do it.

And we need pictures. Just like stupid men do.

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. We are stupid also

for letting these lawmakers stay in office

[buddysmellgood]

30. Makes you wonder why we let them vote. Maybe we should rethink that.

[CreekDog]

31. This sentiment is one of the reasons I'm not a Republican today

in school I was but when I'd actually get together to talk politics with Republicans the anti-women sentiment would come out.

they had all these neat little theories about abortion, about welfare moms, about women in general.

it was just too much. even before my thoughts on economics and civil rights changed, i quickly learned that a bunch of conservative men talking politics would be a women-bashing fest --and that repelled me.

luckily before i ever registered to vote.

[uppityperson]

36. Woman have low moral values, if they have any values at all.

[Juche]

39. Plus they need to be punished for pre-marital sex

Punished = forced to accept the consequences like pregnancy. Birth control and abortion short circuit that punishment.

[felix_numinous]

40. Finding ways to make second class citizens out of

nearly everyone, while war, global warming, joblessness, poverty and the biggest income gap in a lifetime take a backseat. Such strange priorities, unless you want to completely restructure society as we know it.
These people are forcing us to stand up for our rights, they will not let up.

[Curmudgeoness]

45. Sure, we are all of those things. And if men weren't around to protect us,

the world would be a better place.

Or at least we wouldn't end up pregnant from that impulsiveness.

[luv_mykatz]

51. I agree with post number 9.

And would add, that that woman-haters want us to bear the sheeple to put money in the offering plates. In their view, we only have value when we are incubators for some man's sperm. :banghead:

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MisterP]

84. don't you have a Pop artist to gun down? nt

[comtec]

94. Well at least you're an honest bigot

very few of those around.
sure there's quite a few man eaters here but very few willing at flat out say they hate men.
grats, I can at least respect you for wearing your hatred on your sleeve.

btw... that dislike of men makes you as unevolved, and knuckle-dragging as the people you dislike.
welcome to the hypocrisy of hate.
I hope your stay is short, and educational, and you can actually join the rest of us in evolution.

[Evolve_Already]

103. Thanks for the laugh.

:)

[Cleita]

55. Women need their own religion.

I believe the First Amendment applies to us as well. We should worship the Mother Goddess and sacrifice an odious, male, white, Christian Republican to Her every full moon, solstice and equinox. That should teach them.

No! I'm not serious but it's sure tempting.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

60. Before the men decided that women were evil and needed a place, women were sacred...

Women weren't vilified until men decided that they were a threat. Mary Magdalene didn't become a whore until men got together and decided that Jesus was divine. That's the same meeting where Eve was decided to have tempted Adam. Women are powerful. Our life force is strong, we go through some horrific shit in our lives and come out of it on top. Men wish they were so strong. So, women are dumbed down to incubators for their sperm, Christ's probable wife is transformed into whore and women suddenly are put into the kitchen, serving her man, having babies, running the household.
Duckie

[comtec]

95. don't forget about Lilith, the real first woman

she was made at the same time as adam, and was therefore an equal.
adam told her to submit, and (rightfully) she told him to piss off.
so god tossed her out of the guarden and created eve from adam's rib.
it's one of the books that the Xian's like to leave out.
Look up the lost books of genesis, they are very interesting.
The gnostic gospels are also very enlightening, because you see what a real progressive this person called jesus was.

pity none of his actual followers' books were permitted in the bible. only the BS saul..er... i mean paul allowed in (that is a long rant on that misogynistic asshole)

[Angry Dragon]

61. The Christian religion would not exist without a woman

You can throw the rest away and you would still need a woman

[kaiden]

64. Oh! And don't forget this!

Women will carry a fetus for 8.5 months and then -- willy nilly -- decide to abort same! The people who write these proposed laws are nothing but fuckers.

[ismnotwasm]

65. Yes, that's what they imply,

You can add 'a woman's primary value is being a fetus bag.'

These anti-abortions laws are disgusting and full of hate.

[darkstar3]

67. In light of the flamewar I've been in elsewhere,

this thread is hilarious counterpoint. I've been trying to make the point that women are treated by our society as liars, and no one wants to accept it, yet here...

[russspeakeasy]

68. Are they running out of Muslims?

[Marie Marie]

70. And then we have Sarah Palin who validates those stereotypes

just be being who she is. She epitomizes those 4 points like no other woman I know and yet she is rabidly pro-life. Go figure!

[dflprincess]

72. Actually these bills say more about how right wing males view themselves

and how very insecure they are.

[SheilaT]

74. And to think these same people think these impulsive,

naive, lying women are fit to raise children.

I always point out to the anti-choice people that if they don't believe in abortion, then don't have one.

I'm also advocating a three day mandatory waiting period for any man who wants to have sex.

Which reminds me, is it ever possible that *men* are even distantly involved in these abortions? Do any *men* ever get women pregnant? You'd think all of these pregnancies were the result of immaculate conceptions.

[defendandprotect]

75. This is what the right wing patriarchy is about -- abuse of women and children --

[ElsewheresDaughter]

81. and divorcing them for not producing a male heir for him

:crazy:

[proReality]

90. Think I'll pass on reading more...

I'm sick to death of hearing the crap the forced pregnancy set puts out.

[peacetalksforall]

91. How replusive. The emotional absent logic of the radical right is equal

to the emotional absent logic of radicals in every other country. Superior-inferior plus bigotry.

[Tripod]

98. What?

[grahamhgreen]

92. K&R

[AtheistCrusader]

96. her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

I think Kipling was on the money, for women who choose to be mothers. Key word: choice.

Whatever the pro-lifer's push as a 'reasonable boundary', a multi-celled blastocyst is simply not a person, and may be disposed of without incurring 'murder'. It is not a person any more than a set of blueprints, some scaffolding, and a first small delivery of materials could be considered a 'building'.

Once you win that argument, it is simply a matter of pressing forward for maximal freedom of choice for the individual. A concept they claim to hold dear, in other subjects.

[Tripod]

97. What, Fig leafs.

[Solly Mack]

100. K&R

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trud]

105. Amendment: real psychologist or psychiatrist

If those bills are unavoidable, they should be amended so that the "counselor" has to be a professional, not a whackjob.

[tpsbmam]

108. Sadly, you'll find whackjobs in every profession, including psychiatry & psychology

Case in point: Dr. Lyle Rossiter (M.D.), author of THE LIBERAL MIND: The Psychological Causes of
Political Madness.

The Liberal Mind is the first book to explain how modern liberal collectivism undermines the legal and moral foundations of ordered liberty.

Read The Liberal Mind and learn why:

1. The laws and moral codes--the rules--that properly govern human conduct arise from, and must be compatible with, the biological, psychological and social nature of man.
2. The liberal agenda’s Modern Parental State violates all of the rules that make ordered liberty possible.
3. The modern liberal agenda is a transference neurosis of the modern liberal mind, acted out in the world’s economic, social and political theaters.
4. The liberal agenda’s Modern Permissive Culture corrupts the foundations of civilized freedom and is destroying America's magnificent political achievements.

No, I ain't linking to this asshole's website. He bills himself as a psychiatrist with a specialty in forensic psychiatry. I can just picture him in Nazi Germany doing horrific experiments on liberals to "prove" his point. He is definitely one who would fit right in with the Nazis.

I rest my case -- there are most definitely whackjob professionals!! (I know a few, including a neuropsychologist who is vehemently anti-abortion....wouldn't want him "counseling" either.)

[amb123]

106. YEAH LADIES! STOP THINKING WITH YOUR T*TS!

THINK WITH YOUR BRAINS AND OBEY YOUR HUSBANDS AND FATHERS LIKE GOOD LITTLE GIRLS!

:sarcasm:

A glimpse into the simpleton, neanderthal "thinking" behind ALL ABORTION BILLS.

PS: Ask a Reich-Winger what :sarcasm: means and watch their heads explode.

:hi:

[deacon]

107. K + R

[msanthrope]

112. Having read the "Malleus Maleficarum" in the original Latin, I note that we have not advanced much-

Women are still seen as prone to infanticide, convention-defying, demonic vessels....

[StarsInHerHair]

118. it's anti-birth control.........not just 'abortion' as we formally understand it to

be, because regular bc pills are "abortifacients" according to Fetus-Worshippers.

[StarsInHerHair]

120. the Fetus-Worshippers are against all forms of birth control & tend towards

slyly putting it under the umbrella term "abortion"..........it polls better in their favor that way

[travelingtypist]

122. Love that painting to illustrate the point.

The origins of the doctrine of women being inferior, a picture worth 1,000 words.

Yes, from all of the "Penis in the Sky" faiths.

Deal with it.