Canada has a law that bans deliberate falsification of news. Because of this law, Rupert Murdoch's

[Cal33]

attempt to establish his newsmedia In that country was rejected. His reputation of
deliberate news-falsification having preceded him there.

In the USA, because of "Freedom of the Press," everything is allowed -- including
overt lies. At least, that is the way some people interpret it, and these people's
views have prevailed.

I certainly feel that Canada does enjoy freedom of the press. Don't you?

Having been there, I also think that the level of journalism in Canada is superior
to ours. Especially in recent decades, the quality of journalism in America has
degenerated to an abysmal low.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to rename the title "Freedom of the Press to Deliberately
Lie and Deceive the Readers?" What about the right of the readers to honest news?
Does that count for nothing? Do news readers have no rights at all?

[PotatoChip]

1. We need to bring back The Fairness Doctrine. nt.

[bullimiami]

2. I think we need a law similar to Canada. Any broadcast labelled as "news" must be factual.

Faux could do the same show. They just couldnt label it as 'news'.
It could be entertainment or opinion or anything else. Just not news.

[Tesha]

11. That's probably what we need: an equivalent of food's "truth in labeling" laws.

Just like you can't sell manure labeled as "Oats",
you shouldn't be able to peddle bullshit labeled
with any term including the word "News". So if
Fox wants to continue to broadcast bullshit, they
can do so but they can't label it "Fox NEWS".

Tesha

[bullimiami]

16. Exactly. They can label is the Fox Bullshit Channel. But their sheeple will still probably watch.

[Keith Bee]

33. Sadly,

it ain't just FUX spouting the corporatist line.

[bluethruandthru]

44. Agree 100%

Opinion programs need to be labeled as such and the same with "news". It's not erosion of freedom of the press...it's just truth in labeling!

[derby378]

3. That won't be enough...

We need a law that shields US citizens from deliberate falsification of the news, treating it along the same lines as "giving aid and comfort to the enemy."

All you have to do is look at the case of Steve Wilson and Jane Akre squaring off against FOX News over the health risks of rBST. To quote that FOX manager in Florida: "We just paid three billion dollars for these stations. We'll tell you what the 'news' is. The news is what we say it is."

[ThomCat]

9. The fairness doctrine did not require truth.

It only required that if you gave someone media time/space to express one side of a controversial issue you had to allow someone from the opposite side equal time/space for a rebuttal or opposing view point.

Fox went to court and won, claiming they are an entertainment network, not a news network, so they are allowed to say whatever they want under the first amendment. It doesn't have to be the truth. The court agreed that under the first amendment, even though they market themselves as a news network, they don't have to speak the truth, because they can be an entertainment network that uses the news in some ways without actually be held to self-imposed news standards.

I agree that we need a return of the fairness doctrine. That would at least get liberals and democrats back into the news far more than we are now. We are ignored now, despite the laughable claim that the media is supposedly liberal.

But the fairness doctrine is not enough. There used to be the expectation, the assumption, the unwritten RULE that the media has to be somewhat honest. There had to be at least some level of integrity and some effort to be independent from outside interference and control. Even if it was mostly imagined. At least there was some effort.

Corporate consolidation has destroyed the culture that supported all of that. So now we need to find a way to implement that integrity by way of enforceable rules somehow. We need to find a way to break up the consolidated, corporate-owned media giants to restore some independence to the media, and then require them to maintain that independence and uphold some standards of integrity and honesty.

How we do that? I have no idea. But that needs to be the goal.

[PotatoChip]

13. Oh, I agree that it's not enough

But it might be a good place to start, since we've already have had it here in the not too distant past. I'd love to see us having both the FD in addition to what Canada has. Unfortunately, I think it'd be hard to get either, but the FD might be a more attainable first step.

This I do know. The situation is dire as you so well pointed out.

[Cal33]

15. You can be sure the right-wingers will be fighting against

whatever will be done to ban deliberate falsification of the news.
Right-wingers lie as naturally as they breathe. It's part of their
personality make-up.

And welcome to the forum, Potatochip! :o)

[PotatoChip]

22. I agree.

Thanks for the welcome Cal33. Great OP btw.

[defendandprotect]

27. +1000% -- and a law like Canada's --

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Now, if we can only make this the news of the day so that right-wingers

understand who is prodding them.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. Canada....every day I am more and more in awe of them.

[oldlib]

8. They have a Queen.

She lives in England.

[Canuckistanian]

19. So? The Queen has ZERO authority over us

She's a figurehead. We've had our own constitution since 1982.

[Posteritatis]

6. And the government briefly tried to repeal that rule a month or so ago

Fortunately people actually got outraged enough about it - through the apathy the political situation here's spawned from the last few years - for them to back off, but it's still kind of frightening that they tried.

[Cal33]

10. The Canadian prime minister is a friend of Murdoch's. He tried to

help Murdoch get in, but he failed because the Canadian people were against it.

About half of Americans swallow Fox - hook, line, and sinker. This shows
that there are more Canadians who know about what's really happening in America
than there are Americans who do.

Thanks to the propaganda and lies planned and implemented by Corporate America
since more than a hundred years!

[defendandprotect]

28. Wow -- and this is the only way the right wing rises -- deception, lies, violence, stolen elections

[PSPS]

7. There is still a functioning press in Canada

Here's a post I made on DU over three years ago in the aftermath of the RCMP's murderous rampage that killed Robert Dziekanski:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2359852#2360149

[Curmudgeoness]

12. Wish they would have let him in, then had him thrown in jail

for deliberately falsifying the news.

[Cal33]

17. To let him in they'd have to have the law changed, which was

what the Prime Minister was tryingly to do, and he failed. If he had
succeeded, Murdoch would have started Fox in Canada legally, so
he would have been lying legally, as he is doing over here.

[pnwmom]

14. The problem is: who is the arbiter of what is a fact?

In the next election, the Rethugs could gain control of both the Senate and the Presidency. Should the government be in charge of determining what is truthful in every news broadcast?

[Cal33]

18. I don't think it would be too difficult, and I can't see the government

getting involved, except occasionally. For instance, in the early days of
the healthcare insurance reform, right-wingers accused the Dems. of creating
"death squads" in order to get rid of senior citizens. Their purpose was to
frighten the seniors, of course.

It would have been very simple for the Dems to prove that no such thing
had ever been said or intended, simply by replaying the speeches and other
documents and records pertaining to the subject, etc.

On the other hand, with the existing system favored by the healthcare insurance
companies, some 50,000 Americans die needlessly each year, for the simple reason
that they were too poor to have health insurance. The insurance companies make
big profits in this area alone.

It's the right-wingers who are the death squads, not the Dems. (I've long noticed
that right-wingers often accuse the Dems. of the evil actions that the ring-wingers
themselves are doing, have done, or will be doing pretty soon). The type, style and
viciousbness of this type of lying is already indicative of the sociopathic mind.
People simply don't lie like this. It's way out of bounds of normal decency. But
not for the sicko right-wing mind.


I think Dems. are not responsive enough in making straight, direct and to-the-point
replies to such lies, pointing out the errors, the probable reason for inventing
such a lie, and research background showing that the right-wingers have themselves
been active in committing such wrongful deeds. This will show up their hypocrisy
and foolish guile.

Dems. should meet each and everyone of their lies, bringing out information into
the open. Point out their weakness, error and plain lying each and every time.
The right-wingers will come out the losers in the long run.

[Kingofalldems]

20. Republicans hate the Fairness Doctrine

And why? Because it would prevent them from spreading lies.

[NorthCarolina]

23. Your DLC New Dems and Blue Dogs don't have much use for a Fair and Balanced media either.

We seem to lose sight of the fact that, as Liberals and Progressives, all of these things that go against the grain are not limited to just the GOP. Unfortunately, there is a strong contingent within our own party that adheres to, and relies on, the same beliefs and tactics as their GOP brethren.

[Cal33]

36. You're right. Some of the New Dems. and Blue Dogs seem

to be more Republican than Democratic. Just look at the way they vote.

[NoBlueDogs]

47. Heh. See my nickname.

No Blue Dogs!!! Can I get a witness or two!! :D

[Cal33]

24. The founders of the NeoConservatives, among them Irving Kristol,

recommended that the masses be lied to, if it is of benefit to the leadership.
This, of course, was attractive to sociopaths, and drew them like flies to feces.
These natural-born liars have finally found a place where they can feel that they
really belong. They have found their true home.

NeoConservativism couldn't exist without deceit and lying. I believe they have
yet to win an election fair and square. Those Neocon-made electronic voting
machines are still being used in many states today!!

[Kingofalldems]

25. Yeah, I recall reading that Strauss taught this philosophy

It all centered around neocon elitism.

[Cal33]

29. Strauss taught the same thing a generation earlier. No doubt

Kristol had been influenced by him. Now, Kristol's son
is probably running the show.

[madokie]

21. If we had a similar law

it would take away most is not all of our problems with our government.
The outright lies is what is killing our democracy

[robinlynne]

26. I agree with you 100%, but all of a sudden it came to mind that in this country,

who defines what a lie is. the courts. So if lies were not allowed by law, and I say god does not exist, can someone sue me for lying?
just playing devil's advocate.

[Cal33]

31. I think only the following is applicable: If you own a news

medium, then what you publish as "news" has to be a fact.
You may be the first to publish this item of news, but an hour
or a day later, it's easy for other news media to check up on
whether what you've said was true or not.

Your belief or disbelief in God is your personal thing. It's
not an item of news for the general public.

[robinlynne]

34. ok. I'll agree with that.

[L0oniX]

30. I want freedom "from" the press ...when it comes to Murdoch's bull shit.

[Initech]

35. Agreed. It's inescapable at this point.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. I maintain that this law doesn't make Canada less free than the US. -nt

[Cal33]

38. I agree. I don't see how legalizing deliberate falsification of news

could benefit anyone, except for the crooks.

[Johonny]

37. we don't have a free press, our press costs $$$

The press is generally controlled by a few corporate media monopolies. We had regulations to try to prevent such things but... We also now have political parties that basically run hand in hand with the press. I mean our former president was caught filling the press poll with canned questioners and basically filming government propaganda as if it were a news piece. Which also would appear to be against the spirit of the first amendment. If you are anti-government , anti-regulation you of course eventually eliminate the ability of your government to regulate to make sure your freedoms exist. Sure you can say anything you want in our press. All you need is a few billion to buy yourself a media empire. No $$ and your options are very limited.

[Cal33]

40. "A free press" is not the topic, but "Freedom of the Press," is.

[lawodevolution]

39. no, it seems canada can stop the press because they say it is "falsification"

and that is fascist and against freedom of speech. Thanks for this information.

You have the right to not watch bad news and if the news lies about you, you can sue.

[Cal33]

41. Aren't the Canadian people entitled to some decent and honest news reporting?

Yes, and they are getting it, too. We in the USA are guaranteed
lies, deception and propaganda being passed for "news," and the
people have no right to make redress. The fascists are here, not
in peaceful Canada.

[lawodevolution]

42. This is your opinion. You think the news is better in Canada. That is not certain.

It is certain that the government of Canada can deem any information they wish as "dishonest" and block it. Reminds me of Cuba and china, they have to protect sensitive eyes and ears from "misinformation".
This is very Hitler of them.

[Cal33]

43. With today's speed of information, any newsmedium publishing

an item of news first,can have it checked out by other newsmedia within minutes as to
its veracity -- and the result could be broadcast. It could become newsmedia's self-
censoring - as long as the law is there. But if the law permits lies, self-censoring
has less value.

As to the dangers of allowing propaganda and lies to be published as "news," let me
make an analogy: Freedom of Speech does not allow someone to shout "Fire!" in a
crowded theater. It's known that people have been trampled to death during the
frenzied dash for the exits. In the same way, Freedom of the Press should not
allow printing lies and propaganda, and passing them off as "news."

[lawodevolution]

45. In the US the news is still liable. If you can block "dishonest" news, that's what they

Already do in Cuba and china. No matter how much misinformation is spread about freedom in the US vs other countries, let this be a lesson. Canada is on its way to being a fascist state more quickly than the USA. Canada also has hate crime laws wherein they can control the population.

I examined gun possession rates around the world and murder rates and found that countries with higher gun possession rates had much lower murder rates than nations with low gun possession rates, such as Nigeria, Jamaica and Haiti all of which have much lower gun ownership rates than china. I would bet that even though this is backed by facts it would be deemed unacceptable to air in Canada.

[Cal33]

48. "Canada is on its way to being fascist.." I think, only temporarily it looks so. They

do have a right-wing prime minister. He was the one who tried to get Rupert Murdoch' Fox News into
Canada, but failed. I hope he'll lose i their next election. The USA was becoming more and more
fascist under GW Bush -- he did his best to mock and put down our Constitution, among other things.
And the right-wingers now are continuing to do the same. The Corporatists, Neocons, and Teabaggers
can all be lumped together, even though they may have disagreements at times. We are pretty close
to becoming a fascist nation ourselves, I'm afraid.

This has been known for a long time: On a per capita basis, the USA has the most fire-arm murders
in the entire world. It's nothing to be proud of.

[mod mom]

46. The GOP would never allow this. It would ruin their chances forever!

but I'd LOVE to see it truth be a require of news organizations!