part of me just says fuck it.

[cali]

fuck it, let the repukes and corporations have their way completely. fuck it, let it be a swift crash and burn rather than a slow motion one. fuck the inevitable "compromises" that lend legitimacy.

Just fuck it.

[Snoutport]

1. They are hoping that the people who care will just give up during the onslaught

That is their plan...exhaust the fighters then take over the sheep.

[MedicalAdmin]

18. Who said anything about not voting.

But do you honestly think that a candidate that is spending a billion on an election doesn't have a few ship cable thick strings attached? No one not up to their eyeballs in corporate chronyism has a shot.

I must admit that I feel the same way. My wife and I are actively wrapping up our business and other details in the next 2 to 3 years and then we are leaving. I'm not sure the country can be fixed with triangulation and capitulation. We are going to have to spill blood. But as I honestly don't think that will happen in a TV addicted, propoganda laden country filled with Americans who, lets face it are a seriously self absorbed people historically, just don't give a shit?

Plus the fact that being self employed means that we can't get health insurance at ANY price that we can afford. My last estimates were for about $2000 a month with a $10,000 deductable. Which means I would have to spend $34,000 out of pocket before I got dime one out of an insurance company where all their worker drones are trained to NOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the drop of a pin.

It just isn't worth staying any more. The american experiment is as dead as the american dream. IMHO.

[FiveGoodMen]

28. Many politicians with D by their names seem to be hoping the same thing

[ReggieVeggie]

46. they who?

[emulatorloo]

2. Thats partly how Republicans win. Demoralize democrats, in order to lower Democratic voter turnout

EOM

[Poll_Blind]

3. I don't think that's how you really feel, Cali. I think, like a lot of us, you just don't have a...

...good place to start. It's all so enormous. Not having a good plan leads to this sort of apathetic response but as someone who has spent a lot of time keeping others informed, apathetic is the last thing I'd label you with.

Not that that makes some approach to disarming all this bullshit any easier to deduce but...

It just sucks that our elected representatives couldn't help us out a little more.

PB

[kentuck]

8. I think you hit the nail on the head...

Many supporters are starting to feel apathetic or indifferent because they don't see enough from our elected officials.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. Don't see enough? I say we are seeing way too much in the opposite direction of what I expected.

[kentuck]

16. Yeah...

They see too much negative and not enough positive, in regards to expectations.

[monmouth]

17. Funny, I'm listening to Phil's "I Don't Care Anymore".. I concur....n/t

[cali]

13. well, it's partly how I feel. It's so discouraging and yes so enormous

and it's day after day after day of horrendous news coming out of Congress and the states.

[Autumn]

4. I feel that way a lot

let it crash and burn. Let people see what these fucking republicans are. This is what they want, time to quit letting them sell their snake oil.

[Angry Dragon]

5. Yes

but then the survival instinct kicks in, and depending on how strong that is will determine the final outcome.

It will take many to say 'Fuck it, I am not putting up with this shit any more. You want a fight then bring it and we will see who is still standing when the dust clears'.

It is time to bring the fight to them, to attack them until they are standing no more. To fight them in the same manner that they fight. Fight dirty if needs be, for the salvation of this country and world demands it.

[MedicalAdmin]

20. I agree with everything except the world part.

I agree that someone is going to have to put Americorp down like the rabid dog it has become or democracy in the world is in serious danger. But it won't be hard. The fact is that we are already destroying our own military and replacing it with a mercenary force that will cut and run when they can't win easily. Mercenaries historically don't have the guts to stand and fight to the last man for an ideal or principle.

The only question I have is will someone need to take us down or will we just die in a pile of our own dorito and TV fueled goo.

[Angry Dragon]

27. As we destroy this country by pushing more people

towards the bottom you weaken this country.
As we get weaker and weaker will it really matter which way this country is destroyed??

[MedicalAdmin]

29. To the people on the bottom? No.

To the world? Yes. It would be so much more convenient for the majority of those who actually live in democratic countries if the US died with a whimper rather than having to be bludgeoned to death like a sucker fish. Will this happen? It's possible, but I think it is more likely that we will see a represive religious state emerge if there is a revolt in the USA. And I see other countries taking the lead in tech, etc., if that happens.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Noam Chomsky is wrong when he predicted the same thing in the late 90's. But the trends are not looking promising.

[Angry Dragon]

31. If we turn into a repressive religious state then I fear

the streets will turn red and it will not be paint

[MedicalAdmin]

61. Ain' that the truth.

If that happens I'll be Amening and Hosanaing like a madman until I can get north over the border...

[AlwaysQuestion]

68. Planning an Escape to Canada?

Please, don't bother. Such a move would only disappoint you.

We have a guy here who most assuredly is patterning himself after the very wingnuts in the Rethuglican party who support the most regressive social and foreign affairs policies. His name is Stephen Harper.

I never thought I'd see the day that I would have to admit that such a man would reach Prime Minister status. Never. And now he is running again having succumbed to a non-confidence vote in Parliament, his party having been found guilty of flagrantly disregarding the electoral rules. He supports the tar sands; he's not at all keen about universal health care; he supports U.S. foreign policies; he's a fundamentalist Christian.

Hell, I can't remember before he ever came along that religion of any kind played any role in politics. I mean it never raised its ugly head. Moral values? We never discussed that before either. It was assumed we had them. And, yes, he is forever ending his speeches with God Bless Canada. Ohmygawd, sooooooo Un-Canadian. Most (definitely not all) believe that if a god exists, he exists for all and would never favour any country over any other.

Make no mistake, take the corrupt leaders out of the picture and we would all find that people from all walks of life from all parts of the world are inherently pretty much the same. All this other stuff like nationality and religion is just another way for corrupt leaders everywhere to separate us and make us hate one another.

As I've said for all the decades that I've had the ability to reason, I loathe the policies of the U.S. and those of several other countries including my own, but damn, I have no hatred nor will I be moved to have hatred towards the people of these countries who are suffering under their own dreaded leaders.

But again, don't head here. You'll find it quite disappointing--sad to say.

[MedicalAdmin]

70. I've already live in both. I'm gonna assume you haven't.

An underlying assumption in your thoughtful reply is that there is no difference. There is. Canada still maintains elements of a functioning democracy. The fact that tinpot Harper is There is not as concerning to democracy as the citizens united case, IMHO.

Besides, it was a theoretical.

[Pathwalker]

6. NO. I'm stronger than that.

n/t

[JuniperLea]

25. So is cali...

I suspect this too shall pass.

[ejpoeta]

7. it's a back and forth you go through. i mean, it's exhausting. sometimes i say screw it.

if that's what everyone wants, then let them see what that will get them. unfortunately it is going to take us all with it, but at least then they'll fucking get to see what happens when we get what we want isn't really what we want. The problem with that is what would have to happen to get back to where we are now.... I mean, would it be even harder than it was before? I have kids and I want them to have a BETTER life than I do. not worse. And I have GIRLS and I sure as hell don't want their choices to be less. So I fight. I am tired, and not sure how to change things, but I will not give up.

[lonestarnot]

9. hmmmmf.

[jimlup]

10. Yeah but eventually that attitude will get us killed

They want to give everything you have even your life to the plutocrats. And no, I'm not engaging in hyperbole: the reptilians are ruthless motherfuckers. (Sorry, just had to vent a bit)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

11. Without real campaign finance reform & holding a corrupt media accountable, we are so fucked.

I don't see that happening at all.

I don't know if it has happened in the distant past, but it seems that if you are very patient, you can create your own political persona well in advance to get elected one way and then govern that way you intended all along.

Remember the neocon creed... tell the people what they want to hear, lie to them, and then do what you want

[MedicalAdmin]

22. And unfortunately the neocons are now in both parties.

They own the GOP lock stock and barrel. And they seem to own a majority controlling interest of the Dems. I hate it, but it's true.

Hope? Nope.

[Gregorian]

12. There is a big problem with that. Permanent nominations. Things like Supreme Court.

Otherwise, yes, just like we should have done with the banking system. Let it restart. But not like the banking, this isn't quick, and has dire consequences for the less than middle class.

[snot]

14. I believe we can make the world better, and that we've got nothing better to do than try.

[negativenihil]

19. the only problem...

...is there will be people CHEERING the crash and burn on.

They won't learn. Seriously. They won't. Their team will be spun as "winning" and that's all they'll care about.

sigh.

[Solomon]

21. I feel the same way, but perhaps for different reasons than

most on this thread.

[NotThisTime]

23. I agree with you, I'm tired and really have no more to give, just let the whole place burn as they

say... I've had enough.

[kentauros]

24. You need to learn "The Fuck It Way"

http://www.thefuckitway.com

:D

[bullwinkle428]

26. cali, who gave you permission to be as cynical as I am?

:evilgrin:

[bvar22]

34. Cali is a flaming optimist compared to us.

When there was NO "Opposition Party" during the Bush Administration, even AFTER the "Democrats" WON The House, my wife & I realized we were on our own.

We moved to The Woods and started growing our own food in 2006.



Who will STAND and represent THIS American Majority?
Lofty Rhetoric, Empty Promises, and Excuses mean NOTHING now.
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
and by their WORKS they will be judged.

[cali]

37. well, maybe, but I moved to the woods and started growing my own

food and doing the whole back to the land thing, 30 years ago.

[bvar22]

40. You must be pretty good at it by now.

After 4 years, we are still learning what is worth the effort,
and what is a waste of time.

[cali]

48. it's pretty ingrained

but I don't do near as much as I used to. I used to do masses of canning. Now I only do my favorites- still have to have dilly beans and apple and green tomato chutney. My garden is now much smaller and I plant stuff I really love. No more cabbage or rows of green bell peppers.

[bvar22]

55. I wish you a healthy & productive growing season.

Things are really starting to get rolling here. (Central Arkansas)

[cali]

56. thanks! you too.

I'm jealous of your early (to me) start.

[howaboutme]

30. When you don't know what to do, do something

I once was a project manager for large communications projects that had many variables. Inevitably the question of where to begin would become overwhelming. The same can happen to politically involved individuals in society when we are dealing with issues that we think we have no control over. When you aren't sure what to do, do something but do not give up. Every step leads to another and has a reaction from others. Call a Congressperson, write a letter, write a letter to editor, call a friend, post on a forum, and don't hesitate to make a mountain out of a molehill, and always let them know you are out there. If only 1 out of 50 Americans did that, we could get our country back from lobbyists and corporations. If the goal is to get it back you must never give up.

Hollywood and the MSM have played a big role in this diversion while profiting and keeping Americans ill informed and wasting precious time on their frivolities and non news, rather than being involved in realities like family, country and of course earning a living.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. I kinda agree. Maybe if we were dumped into the boiling water

we'd make an effort to get out, instead of accepting coming to a slow boil.

We're all frogs in this pot.

[KittyWampus]

33. When all you focus on is the negative, it's to be expected. DU'ers who refuse to acknowledge progres

progress are part of the problem.

[BeFree]

35. Ok

Tell me about this "progress"of which you speak.

[inna]

38. what... "progress"??

[KittyWampus]

51. Thanks for proving my point. I could give you a list, but others have done so repeatedly-

so the question is, why do you refuse to acknowledge what good has been done.

[walldude]

54. For the same reason you turn a blind eye to the bad things?

It's a two way street. I look around and I see this country spiraling down the drain. War on 4 fronts, record unemployment and homeless, government aid programs being cut back, huge corporations not paying taxes, cost of living skyrocketing, Banks and Wall Street ripping people off, businesses closing, homes being foreclosed on, jobs being outsourced. And who gets the blame? The teachers, public workers, the middle class, the poor. Yeah it's just a big party here in America and I should be glad that Obama is hosting and not Bush. :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. I know. How many YEARS have we been fighting these

parasites? TOO MANY! Now they're winning.

[Stinky The Clown]

39. "Fuck the inevitable "compromises" that lend legitimacy."

Welcome to the fold.

There are many millions who see it that way, but we're treated as lone voices in the wilderness, anomalies, outside the mainstream, fringe, kooks . . . .

[vim876]

41. We all understand. However,

the problem is that when progressives get apathetic, the people it really hurts are the most vulnerable members of our society. The single mom without health insurance who dies of cancer that might have been treated. The kid who might have gone to college if that after-school funding hadn't been cut. The kid who might have finished her nursing degree if she'd had access to reproductive health care, but now has to leave her kid with a questionable relative so she can go to her 'workfare' job. The guy with intractable pain who can't get disability because the funding isn't there. And so on. It's easy, as someone with relative privilege (as I assume you are, given the apparent makeup of the DU community), to say, "Fuck it." You aren't going to be one of the most affected. But can you honestly look at the people who are, and say, "Sorry, your life wasn't worth compromising my political principles?"

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. Is it cold of me to suggest that in a war there are inevitable casualties?

We ARE at war. And we are losing, because we are on the defensive. If the insane right were to suddenly get its way we would suffer a collapse so abrupt, so shocking that the people WOULD rise. Instead of millions of little tragedies hidden behind closed doors across the country over the years, there would be millions of tragedies all at once and people would see who is responsible.

And there are plenty of us here on DU who would be among the most affected.

It is not a question of apathy. When you are constantly pushing the boulder up hill you don't give up because you are bored - you give up because you are exhausted. And maybe, when the boulder rolls back to the bottom, you can smash it into pieces small enough to move.

Don't blame the victims of RW policies for the effect of RW policies.

[jberryhill]

42. There's a part of me that says that CONSTANTLY

Lol.

[Romulox]

43. Feels like a rigged game: a "heads I win; tails you lose" kinda affair. nt

[tahrir]

44. I thought we had reached that point in 2008, when TPTB crashed the world economy

but I see that we still have a ways to go... right now I am thinking that we will have to lose all our labor, civil, and social rights and benefits, essentially be at a point equivalent to where we were pre FDR... and then suffer another crash... Probably another generation or 2 at least.

Though that may be accelerated in our Internet age, so that is about the only hope I have right now.

So, I agree, we will need to hit rock bottom before real change will come, and it will come from the bottom... same as ever.

[ensho]

45. the worst is happening - like a snowball down a mountain

no stopping it

each of our lives will be determined by - survival of the fittest, and luck

[Skidmore]

47. I've thought that too at times, but then I remember that it took

a couple centuries of hard work and lives suffered or lost for this nation to get into place laws and rights for most of its citizen. Then I take a couple of tablets for my headache and look around to see where I can have an impact in my limited sphere.

[JoePhilly]

49. The GOP's political strategy has two main tactics.

Tactic #1: The do whatever they can to rile up their angry, hateful xenophobic base so that they will come out and vote against the evil Democrat party.

Tactic #2: When out of power, they do absolutely everything they can do to BLOCK the democrats on every single front. And if they can't block something totally, they make sure that anything that the Dems do accomplish is tainted in a way to piss off, and demoralize the left, believing (often correctly) that the left will blame the Dems for anything bad, and ignore anything good accomplished.

The goal of these tactics are to (a)increase the right wing turn out by a few percentage points, and (b) decrease the democratic turn out by a few percentage points, respectively.

If they can get a 3% increase in right wing turn out, and diminish Democratic turn out by 3%, they net 6%. which is how much Obama won by in 2008.

Getting you to be angry at Obama, get frustrated, and give up, is part of their strategy.

[Forkboy]

52. That temptation is constant.

I have no real love for humans as a species (we're ok one on one, but that's about it) so for me it's really tough not to give in to that way of thinking. I have a pretty cynical and dark sense of humor, so that helps deal with it, but it's still tough some days not to think of 5 billion dead as a "good start". Maybe the human race needs a reboot.

But, despite that, there's no way to NOT care for my fellow drain swirling sentient buds. I can see this enormous gap between what we are a species and what we could be, and I don't know if I'm doing anything to push us in the right direction but, as much as I want to say fuck it, I just can't.

You won't either. :)

[tallahasseedem]

53. Quitter.

[wiggs]

57. 'compromises that lend legitimacy.' That's what is going on. Kabuki theater...

...the votes are known...they know what the legislation and budget will look like. They are just jockeying for messaging and legitimacy.

The gop role has been to threaten medicare and medicaid and to threaten govt shutdown. Their side of the equation, their starting point, is the far far right position of 'government is the problem.' The dem role is to be outraged and compassionate. Their side of the equation defines the official dem position...a centrist one, not the far left position. the compromise will be in the middle of far right and centrist...big cuts in social programs, including medicare, a continuation of government, and protection of the wealthy and powerful. The official dem response will be that, while they feel the pain of those who are less fortunate and wouldn't have chosen this path, we should all take satisfaction in avoiding a long government shutdown and that some semblance of social programs are allowed to live on for another year.

Cuts in medicare would have been considered extreme 6 months ago.

Nothing new to DU...just the horrible reality of the US at this point. Fighting the money in this age of media consolidation, corporatism, lobbying, low politics by gop, polarization, etc is a tough row to hoe. I used to think dems were in a very, very deep hole before 2008 and that, although we were starting to climb out and catch up in power, it would take years before the public and progressive thinking could compete again. Now I think we are in an even deeper hole than ever.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. I actually agree with you.

We currently have Corporate Party and Sligtly Less Corporate Party and until we decide that we will not help perpetuate this system anymore we will be stuck with it.

A long departed DUer Tinoire told me during the 2004 election it was time to let the old political system crash and burn. I argued fiercely with her, that the kind of political change needed was possible through the convention means.

I no longer believe that. The last two years have convinced me of that.

I think it is high time to end the charade.

Give the corporatists of both Parties the rope to hang themselves, good and dead.

And then pick up the pieces.

[MineralMan]

59. Personally, I wish that those who are going to say

"fuck it" would just do so and quit trying to convince others to do the same. I understand withdrawing from the fight, but not the urge to get others to follow. That just doesn't make sense. So people who say "fuck it," yet continue to try to influence others don't really seem to be doing what they claim to be doing.

I'll say "fuck it" on my death bed, and not before. But, that's just me.

[JoePhilly]

64. See my post #49.

[Hotler]

60. Not enough people feeling the pain yet...

It's going to take at least two things before this country can change.
1. It's going to take tens of thousand of people in the streets in every state making lots of noise.
2. People are not going to get up of their ass until they feel the pain. Too many people even democrats have the "I have mine, fuck everybody else." attitude.

[demmiblue]

62. k

[spanone]

63. i'm fighting the fuckers tooth and nail.....

[rufus dog]

65. I think those of us on the West Coast and NE have less to lose.

They start pulling shit in our states and it will literally hit the fan. While those in other states will take the majority of the heat I can envision the whole thing folding.

I have times where like yours where I think fuck it. If the crazies in the other states want to go back to the 1920's then let them, just don't ask for my money (from a donor state) to fund your idiotic privatization give aways.

[unkachuck]

66. I feel your pain, cali...

....the only thing that keeps me going is knowing that the corporatists want me to give up and die....I hate these motherfuckers so much, I can't.

[upi402]

67. I've ben there sooo many times

The most discouraging part is trying to convince my fellow Democrats to see that our elected "Democrats" aren't Democrats at all.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... it must be a Thomson's gazelle?

[Taverner]

69. You and me

We agree more often than not, you know...