Pastor Terry Jones Receives Death Threats After Koran Burning

[The Northerner]

Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who supervised the burning of the Koran last month, said he's not backing down after receiving death threats.

Jones said he feels no responsibility for the violence sparked by his church's action, including the violent protest at a United Nations complex in Afghanistan on Saturday that left at least 11 people dead - and 20 killed in weekend violence.

Jones said his beliefs are more important - even at expense of American soldiers.

"Perhaps in the long run, we may save hundreds or thousands," Jones said.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/pastor-terry-jones-receives-deaths-koran-burning/story?id=13289242

[Ian David]

1. If his beliefs are THAT important, he should go burn the Koran in the streets of Mecca.

Let him put himself at risk, instead of putting our troops at risk.

[MrsMatt]

15. I feel badly about it, but the image of that scenario made me laugh. n/t

[roguevalley]

35. pass the hat and send the asshat to do this where they shoot back.

easy to sit in crazy town and do this, the coward. and he is responsible.

[SwampG8r]

108. gainesville is not "crazy town"

its a very nice place
home to the university of florida (you go gators!)and progressive by florida standards

[PotatoChip]

84. Exactly! +1 nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. he probably manufactured them himself.

he's that much of an attention whoring, POS.

[blondeatlast]

12. A star student at The Sherriff Joe School of Self-Promotion. nt

[msanthrope]

105. A case of 'fatwa envy' for sure....n/t

[closeupready]

3. Shrug.

And...?

[Rambis]

4. Why don't you go on patrol with your bible

good luck!

[LeftinOH]

5. Wonder what Limbaugh has to stay about his old high school classmate (yes, really).

[WatsonT]

6. I hope the police take these threats seriously

and work to prosecute those who made them.

I don't like this guy, but threatening to murder someone over their beliefs/speech is absolutely incompatible with living in a free nation.

[closeupready]

7. I agree, but I would add there should be MANY higher priorities than babysitting an attn. whore.

It's similar to the much sadder case of those evangelicals who were warned to stay away from waters off Somalia - they went anyway, cases of Bibles in tow.

[The Northerner]

8. +1

Death threats against anyone expressing legal, yet reprehensible, free speech should never tolerated.

[Bragi]

19. Quite so

I agree that anyone who breaks no laws and is subjected to death threats deserves protection. That includes Salman Rushdie and Jones.

However, if you look at the way the FBI abandoned Molly Norris, who was a true victim of a fatwa, I'd be surprised if he gets any protection at all.

[walldude]

21. I hope they don't. Why should they?

What has Terry Jones done to earn protection? Does he pay his taxes? Oh wait he's a pastor, they don't pay taxes. Has he been a responsible citizen? Has he contributed in a meaningful way to our society?

He brought this on himself. I personally wouldn't waste a breath threatening this jerk but I don't see where he deserves PUBLIC FUNDED PROTECTION. Fuck him.

[WatsonT]

23. So only people with a positive tax-balance are afforded police protection?

So I guess it's ok to murder the homeless eh?

[PavePusher]

39. You seem to be incorrect on the taxation issue....

And you seem to imply that he doesn't deserve protection because you don't agree with him.

Big fail there.

[Bragi]

48. Yep! /nt

[Codeine]

80. Lots of folks pay little to no tax.

Should they be refused police protection?

[Incitatus]

95. +1

[SwampG8r]

109. he pays sales taxes

no one pays zero taxes

[roguevalley]

36. he's the florida Kansas church. You reap what you sow. He can't

not care that his actions killed people overseas and bitch about death threats here. Fucking idiot.

[WatsonT]

43. What a myopic view of free speech we have here

"Say something I don't like and we'll remove your police protection".

Consider the implications of that precedent.

[Bragi]

47. I agree, that response needs more thought /nt

[Codeine]

81. His actions didn't kill anyone.

His actions burned a book. Nutbags used that as an excuse to justify murder.

Man, DU throws the Bill of Rights out the window as enthusiastically as Freeptown does if the villains are well-drawn.

[SwampG8r]

110. i find it more like

DU has a majority of people who will stand for anything if they agree with whoever is doing it and will decry the exact same act when done by those they disagree with
just stick a (d) behind it and its cool
if this was someone burning bibles DU would applaud the act and demand protection
jones is equal to rushdie

[olegramps]

42. If the Republicans have their way all the union cops will be fired along with the teachers.

The Tea-baggers are throwing millions into the campaign in WI to defeat the challenge to the right-wing Supreme Court judge.

[roman7]

100. its his actions not his beliefs/speech

[ReggieVeggie]

9. Should the Mohammed cartoonist feel just as responsible for the violence he caused?

:shrug:

[Hubert Flottz]

10. his beliefs are more important - even at expense of American soldiers."

He probably never was an American Soldier. They should deport that motherfucker to Afghanistan and let him burn one over there.

[Bluerthanblue]

11. well, except for the bounty on his head- the threats are people excercizing

their "free speech" rights.

At least that claim could be made.

:shrug:

[Goblinmonger]

18. Are you seriously comparing death threats to burning a book?

Yikes.

[Bluerthanblue]

29. no, I'm bringing up the "constitutionally protected rights" of the

people saying he should die.

[PavePusher]

40. So then it's O.K. to make threats against abortion providers....

or politicians, or your neighbor, amIright?

[Incitatus]

96. No, his burning actually lead to deaths like everyone told him it would. nt

[Rebubula]

106. No...

..the actions of a group of ignorant zealots led to the deaths of those people.

Terry Jones may be an asshole - but he is in no way responsible for the deaths of people 13000 miles away.

No matter how much you want it to be different.

[Incitatus]

113. He knew it would incite murder and he didn't care.

He is not directly responsible, but the murders did happen because of him.

[Taitertots]

44. Death threats are not protected speech

The claim could be made, but it is totally false.

[VAliberal]

13. religion-sick Christians and religion-sick Muslims

Revealed religion is just so much mental illness. Terry Jones burning the Quran and Muslims murdering UN workers are both working out their throw-back 10th Century ideologies in the 21st. Dumb shits all the way around.

[Arkansas Granny]

69. +1

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Hide behind fat-ass classmate Limbaugh. They'll never find you there.

:rofl:

[Bragi]

16. Of course he doesn't care about threats

I presume after September's events that the FBI did their best to scare the crap out of him, telling him he would be fatwa'ed and the like.

I'm not surprised he doesn't really care about his own safety in the current circumstance because he is a genuine, sincere and classic religious nutcase.

As in: he actually believes that what he is saying is true, and believes that he needs to say it.

[Skidmore]

17. He needs to be reminded of the verses about

reaping what you sow and getting back what you put out there seven times seven. We are responsible for our utterances and our deeds...what comes out of our mouths has consequences.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Any Muslim who kills over someone burning a copy of the Koran is a douche

THEY are the problem. Jones is a dick, that's for sure, but the deaths in Afghanistan are squarely on the Muslims that thought it was an appropriate response. In no way do I think those Muslims are representative of all Muslims in the same way Jones isn't representative of all Christians. But I continue to be shocked at the lack of response on DU to say that all of this lies firmly with the over-reaction of the Muslims. Jones participated in constitutionally protected speech--speech that I don't want curtailed in any manner.

[Bragi]

27. You're not far off majority sentiment here...

I've been a bit surprised and somewhat heartened by discussion here on Jones. There is a lot of support being expressed here for blaming violent people for violence they inflict, and support for the notion that the (however woeful) Pastor Jones' is, nonetheless, engaging in constitutionally-protected free speech.

There is no doubt that the inflammatory Jones is just about as distasteful a person to defend as, say,a Nazi, or Westboro Church's Fred Phelps. But this is always the way, people you never have to stand up to strongly defend popular speech. Res ipsa loquitur -- "the thing speaks for itself"

Anyway, below is a reference I posted here a short time ago with links to two DU threads on Jones you might want to peruse. (And I know there are other good threads if you go look for them.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=815925&mesg_id=817148

- B

[Obamanaut]

22. Jones did not *cause* any of this. Islamic extremists were chopping off heads,

other forms of murder, stoning women, beating young girls, killing gays - long before Terry Jones came into the picture.

Who gets the blame for those atrocities?

[Bragi]

28. So what specifically is your issue?

Your posting covered a wide range of stuff.

[Obamanaut]

37. My issue is the misguided sentiment that Jones' book burning is the

cause of violence by extremists. They were doing violent acts - some listed in my earler post - long before Jones came along, he is simply the 'scapegoat du jour'. Why not hold the perpetrators responsible instead of pointing a finger and shouting "He made them do it!"

[Dogtown]

53. Christians

were chopping off heads,

other forms of murder, stoning women, beating young girls, killing gays - long before Mohammed came into the picture.

Who gets the blame for those atrocities?

[Obamanaut]

59. That is one of the easiest questions to answer - it is, or should be, the

same answer to the question I asked: Who gets the blame? The nutjob extremists who were doing the lopping, beating, killing. Similarly, in the days of Leviticus (Old Testament), way before christians were invented, the ones lopping, beating, stoning, etc., should get the blame.

It is totally wrong to try to blame someone half a world away for nutjobbery actions. That someone may well be a nutjob as well, but he is not the one doling out the atrocities.

[Dogtown]

67. I'm merely pointing out

that both sides in this quarrel have very questionable moralities.

Christians are engaged in the same types of atrocities as we discuss these issues, albeit in 3rd World locales.

It's important to note that they are given moral and logistic support by American Christian leaders.

The record is very clear: Christianity is no less barbaric and no less repressive than Islam, and has been throughout it's 2000 year history.


It's quite clear that "Pastor" Jones et al are equally as reprehensible as the opposition. "Blame" is a subjective concept. Jones may not be lopping heads, but he relishes the decapitations as fuel for present atrocities by our troops and is cynically hoping for personal "political" advancement resulting from his incitement.


Our military has become infiltrated and dominated by radical Christian elements. We are engaged in but another Crusade, and history will blame us for allowing it.

EDIT: I am certainly not supporting or excusing those individuals that have made death threats against Jones (if there have actually been any, American conservatives are well known for their "false flags"). My point is that all of this violence is being used by cynical and ambitious religious leaders to escalate the violence for their own personal goals, without any remorse for the victims.

It is important that we don't continue to excuse religious leaders of either persuasion for attempting to escalate the hostility and atrocities.

[Obamanaut]

68. Now, *that* was a good response. Seriously. Thanks for taking

the time to type it.

Regards.

[Dogtown]

102. Oops, Edited, this reply seemed a bit patronizing.

:hi:

EDIT: Thanks for your gracious response. Sorry, didn't mean to sound condescending in my original reply, just busy with other posts.
I appreciate our civil exchange.

[Union Scribe]

72. ??

They were? Before 600 AD or whenever?

[Dogtown]

86. Your post

is too stupid to address.

[WatsonT]

75. "Who gets the blame for those atrocities?" Isn't that obvious?

Anyone who said something they disapproved of, earning their ire and forcing them to react violently.

So like the Jews for instance for saying that Jesus wasn't the son of god. What were they supposed to do in light of such incendiary words?

/oh right, with muslims it's always a double standard.

[Dogtown]

85. And Affirmative Action

robs White People.

Try reading post #67:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=817283&mesg_id=828826

Oh, and there's no evidence (besides your bible) that Jesus even existed. Please post facts instead of fiction.

[WatsonT]

87. That's a very incendiary thing to say to a true believer

not me, but someone else might read it (likewise I don't feel that the pages of the koran are sacred).

Meaning if someone is killed over what you just wrote then it would be your fault.

All religion is fiction, you can't only use that line against Christianity while defending the holiness of the Koran.

[Dogtown]

88. I did NOT

defend the "holiness" of either.

Comparing my declaration of non-belief is hardly incendiary-except to mindless zealots. It's preposterous (and disingenuous) to pretend that a statement of non-belief is the same as a designed, overt provocation such as the the desecration of fanatics' "sacred" book.

Admittedly, both sides would stumble over each other to persecute an atheist; they're so insane that disbelief of their fantasies is considered provocation enough for extreme sanction.



You've intentionally missed my posit that BOTH sides are prone to barbarous reaction to each other.

Neither side is acting properly, or civilized, oe even remotely sane.

[WatsonT]

89. Since it's all based on opinion then yes, it is the same

if someone feels that burning the Koran is the worst sin then it is, to them.

If someone feels that saying Jesus didn't exist is the worst sin then it is, to them.

There is no such thing as objective blasphemy separated from personal religious beliefs.

I have no dog in this fight (agnostic) but the "both sides are equally bad" line is nonsense.

You could burn truckloads of Bibles and no one would die.

Burn one Koran and dozens die.

Not even close.

Historically sure, but we don't live in the dark ages any more. And to compare the two right now makes no sense.

[Dogtown]

92. Kenya.

Christians (with monetary, logistic, and moral support from American Christian organizations) are performing horrible atrocities and biblical executions on "witches" in Kenya and other African countries.

The only reasons US zealots aren't acting out in the same way here are 1. it's (currently) illegal here and 2. the leaders are lazy and cowardly talkers, not doers, and won't incur any realistic risk (dubious "death-threats" aside.

Still, the "fringe" Christian activists are assassinating doctors and nurses and planting bombs in public parks and federal child-care agencies.

Their violence has been limited so far, and under-reported by corporate media, but it clearly exists.

The rhetoric in this country is becoming increasingly ugly and inciteful. Add to that the successful proselytizing of our military and the obvious attempt to infiltrate and control our government and we may very well see some real Christian pogroms against infidels and atheists here soon.

[WatsonT]

94. And they're doing this in response to someone burning bibles in another country?

Also I take umbrage with your notion that the only reason it isn't happening here is that christian leaders are cowards.

[Dogtown]

98. Why am I not surprised at your umbrage?

Although I believe it has a much broader base than you claim.

As to the Christian atrocities in Kenya, no, not about Bible desecration at all.

They merely do it because they have ugly, medieval superstitions fostered and supported by American Christian leaders. They believe in magic, and are also scared, small-minded homophobes. As are the Christian leaders that prompt their atrocities.

I consider all bigoted mobs that torture and murder innocents to be cowards of the 1st order. AND their simpering, sanctimonious 1st World supporters.

You can't honestly claim they are less guilty than those who actually swing the panga, throw the stone, or light the pyre. I find that very passive-aggressive. I also believe the self-proclaimed religious leaders that instigate these actions to be passive-aggressive. And isn't that just a nice, PC way of acknowledging their cowardice?

You seem to want to excuse religious oppression unless it pertains with undue specificity to the topic du jour. That appears to be prejudicially subjective. Exactly what I'd expect from someone that fervently desires to paint adherents of a particular mythology as evil, whilst defending the horrors committed in the name of their own spiritual fetish.

It also reveals the real spur for your umbrage.

[Boojatta]

24. He shouldn't be receiving threats. He's just a supervisor.

the Florida pastor who supervised the burning of the Koran

The following people are more blameworthy:

Senior Manager, Koran Burning
Middle Manager, Koran Burning

[Bragi]

46. Very funny comment on a serious topic! /nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. While I do not condone the actions of those making such threats.

I can't honestly say I'd shed any tears if he died in his sleep tonight. He makes my skin crawl.

[Blue_In_AK]

26. He shouldn't be surprised. n/t

[dorkulon]

30. If you're not getting death threats, you're doing it wrong.

Anonymous death threats are as common on the internet as lolcats. Something about impotent rage.

[Redford]

31. Unfortunately, this guy likes the attention

I would not be surprised if he supervised the burning of more Korans.

[quinnox]

32. This lunatic has the arrogance to not care about putting American troops

at risk of death for the sake of getting attention for his whacked out beliefs. He needs to be forcibly taken to a mental health institution and given an evaluation.

[joeglow3]

41. Would you say the same if this happened for things Obama said?

You appear to say people's reactions should dictate the exercise of your rights. Are abortion providers and those seeking abortions arrogant because the exercise of their free rights drives asshats to crime? THIS is the moment that tests your belief in the Constitution.

[True Earthling]

33. I condemn those sending death threats

If your religion compels you to behead those who criticize Islam or murder those who destroy your "holy" book in a symbolic gesture then you're religion deserves all the criticism it can get.

[Nye Bevan]

34. I wonder why no Ayatollah has issued an official, Salman Rushdie-style fatwa yet?

You would think what Jones did was more insulting to Muslims than Rushdie's book.

[Keith Bee]

38. Awww, how unfortunate for the Pastor

:evilgrin:

[olegramps]

45. Seems to me that the basic problem is religion. The pot calling the kettle black.

I took out time to read the Koran and also the Old Testiment. Lots of killing, stoning, raping, enslavement and plain hatred all supposedly ordered and blessed by the Lord Himself. Also read the New Testiment. If you discount the miracle stuff Jesus appears to be at least sane. People claim this is a Christian nation. It would be refreshing if we actually saw it in practice. Its kind of like Communism, never actually been successfully tried.

[slackmaster]

49. Outrageous speech is protected, but it often has negative consequences

So it goes.

[DainBramaged]

50. Another asshole who believes others should die for HIS cause

[joeglow3]

51. Did you say the same for abortion providers when Tiller was killed?

Of course not. While this guy is an asshat, free speech should NEVER be limited because of what some other asshat may do. This is a moment where our belief in free speech is tested.

[DainBramaged]

56. You have NO idea what I said when Tiller was killed and this goes BEYOND free speech

people should NOT DIE because ans asshole believes in HIS right to offend the culture of others.


At some point in my lifetime, the practice of hiding behind free speech for political and religious zealots will end.

[joeglow3]

58. So you DO think abortion providers are responsible for Tiller's death?

Again, you are saying any speech of yours could be limited because of the reaction someone else may have to it.

Sadly, with this event, I have seen too many people like yourself, who are quick to demand restrictions on free speech for speech they don't agree with.

[DainBramaged]

90. Sadly I see too many people like yourself who allow people to die to make you content in your piety

Merry Christmas, and I don't mean happy holidays.

[dorkulon]

76. They died because they were murdered by assholes.

Don't take away their responsibility for their own actions. Jones is also an asshole, but he killed no one.

[DainBramaged]

91. Because their beliefs don't coexist with yours they are assholes?

Mirror mirror on the wall......

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dorkulon]

103. I can't believe my response to this got deleted, but I'll try again.

They are assholes because they KILLED PEOPLE. Despite your condescending attitude, they are indeed responsible for that.

[SwampG8r]

111. my beliefs dont make me kill

if your beliefs make you murder people then you are responsible for it not some guy 15000 miles away having a cookout

[Codeine]

78. No, an asshole who believes that his right to free expression

should not be limited by the savagery of deluded religious zealots.

[Generic Other]

52. While I agree he has the right to be hateful

he can hardly complain when the hate is mirrored back at him.

Isn't what he did a bit like fighting words? You have a right to use them, but a court might not prosecute someone for lashing out in response?

There's a price on his head now. Stupid not to consider that might have been the outcome before he acted. Even more irresponsible to put our soldiers in danger by his actions.

Beyond this, as a Christian he has once again managed to make the sect look like bloody fools.

[joeglow3]

55. Would you say the same about Tiller?

I certainly wouldn't say it about either...it is the price of free speech.

[Generic Other]

60. Tiller did not provide legal medical services to women to rile up hate

He was the victim of extremist nutcases. Are you saying Jones is a victim here? I think the comparison is absurd.

[joeglow3]

62. I am saying Jones is an asshat because of his views

However, even an asshat has a right to freedom of speech. What some lunatic does because of what he says is NOT his fault. Last I checked, those idiots chose to go out a murder people.

That said, your comment was "Another asshole who believes others should die for HIS cause." Someone could the EXACT SAME THING about an abortion provider. We all know there are wackos out there looking to kill abortion providers. Thus, using your logic, these provider continued HIS/HER cause (provising abortions), knowing that a loon may kill a provider because of it. Using your logic, unless they stop providing abortions, all these Doctors have blood on their hands for Tiller's murder.

[Generic Other]

65. I didn't call anyone an asshole! What the hell are you talking about?

I didn't bring Tiller's name into this conversation.

[joeglow3]

70. You're right. You didn't.

I confused you with the poster up the thread. Sorry about that.

[Auntie Bush]

54. Good, I hope they are successful. (God or whoever... forgive me)

The world will be a more peaceful place without that fool.

[guitar man]

57. Here's an idea

Turn off the cameras, send the reporters elsewhere, stop writing about or otherwise reporting anything this asshat does or says, same for the Phelps klan. If the media were to completely ignore assholes like this they would have no vehicle to do anything with. :grr:

[Bragi]

61. They have ignored him as much as possible

But word of his stunts keeps escaping from the U.S. via other channels, like Afghan Pres Karzai.

[JoePhilly]

63. He should receive free plane tickets to Afganistan so he can spread Jesus' love in person.

[Lucian]

64. He shouldn't be getting death threats for his beliefs.

No matter how warped they are.

But televising and publishing all of this doesn't make things better either.

[roman7]

66. not for his beliefs

he should only be getting death treats for his actions

[Lucian]

74. Why should he get death threats for buring the Koran?

That's idiotic and warped judgement on your part.

[Codeine]

79. The First Amendment carries a death penalty now?

Damn. I missed a memo.

[ReggieVeggie]

83. so you would agree that the cartoonist depicting Mohammed should have received the same threats? nt

[roman7]

101. just sayin

i would never make a death threat or support someone who did . i think he should be shot for treason in time of war for reckless endangerment of american soldiers

[Cali_Democrat]

71. I'm definitely not going to be losing sleep over this.

[Nye Bevan]

112. Yeah really. Who cares?

Like if fundies made death threats against the Piss Christ guy, or against the guy who flung elephant dung on the Virgin Mary, these people only have themselves to blame. If you insult someone's religion, you *deserve* to have your life threatened.

[NICO9000]

73. Obviously, both sides behaved abominably

Man, I'm an atheist, but even I know if you burn someone's holy book or set fire to a religious building, you're probably going to hell!

[Rex]

77. Wow and bears really do shit in the woods!

[quaker bill]

82. Indeed they do

[Raschel]

97. He wanted to antagonize and wanted attention. I guess he got it.

[AsahinaKimi]

Some times when you kick over the Wasp nest ...

You get stung.

[AsahinaKimi]

99. dupe

[Stinky The Clown]

104. I hope someone gets even by shaving off that stupid facial hair he sports.

[Stevenmarc]

107. And ruin that attractive Yosemite Sam look he has going on.