At what point do we demand independently audited elections?

[spotbird]

It's such shit that we have to pretend that elections are honest without a shred of evidence to support it.

Has anyone noticed the only "election protection" Republicans support is voter suppression.

[DJ13]

1. Now

& add a Constitutional amendment for publicly paid for elections.

[RKP5637]

3. +1000 +++ n/t

[Brigid]

12. Me likey.

Yes, this has been needed for a long time. If this has been the procedure back in 2000, we would never have had that debacle.

[RKP5637]

2. Yep, the republican motto is "Cheat to Win!"

[spotbird]

4. And anyone who says,

"Who counted those votes?" is tarred as a conspiracy theorist.

Why isn't the vote as corrupt as the rest of government?

[FBaggins]

5. What on earth would "independently audited" mean?

You going to bring in the Spain or the U.N. to audit all the races?

They still aren't truly independent.

[BeFree]

6. How about high schoolers?

The 1% audits are run now by election officials.
The last thing officials want is an election count to be found to be wrong.
Officials love the computer counting the votes.

[Wilms]

9. NY's Columbia county's bi-partisan election officials hand count 100% of the ballots.

They don't trust the new machines.

[spotbird]

7. Oh, it's not all that complicated.

But it would take time to insure a trustworthy result.

Assuming the goal is results the public trusts, the real cost is time. A hard copy ballot, counted manually, by a team, in the light of air, with ballots issued through an open, but insured way.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Yes in fact there are international organizations that monitor elections.

They should monitor ours.

[spotbird]

11. Someone should. nt

[FBaggins]

15. But none of them are independent.

There is nobody who is unaffected by who runs the most powerful country in the world.

[BeFree]

17. How about high schoolers, baggins?

How would you audit the count?
Do you think a fair audit is an impossibility?
Do you even have a clue?
SYT.

[FBaggins]

24. You think high schoolers are apolitical?

How would you audit the count?

In an incredibly partisan but entirely open process. Something that can get down to a valid hand count if necessary.

My point is that there is no "deus ex machina" to drop in and magically sort things out.

[defendandprotect]

22. Jimmy Carter comments on that --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=821731&mesg_id=822739

[Wilms]

8. Too many think that by voting on paper, rather than a touch screen, the worry is over.

"At least I voted on paper...", many will say without due consideration that the paper they voted on was counted by a computer.

They go on to claim, "...and if there are any questions the paper can be hand counted".

Have a look at the recent and extremely close state senate race in NY SD7, where the optical scanners were shown to have screwed up. Control of the NY State senate turned over to republicans when a judge refused to grant a full recount.

[liberal life]

16. yes, and even with the recount they will put 5% through the same faulty process

It is absurd we are expected to just trust them.

That is not how a democracy works.

As Reagan said "Trust, but Verify"...I keep using that one with right wingers in election discussions :rofl:



http://fucorporatemedia.com/

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Elections are run by the States

so there is much you can do in your own state to keep the vote honest, most do not bother. I'm not kidding. Around here, we elect Democrats. I keep a copy of my completed ballot. I say our elections are honest, don't know about yours. I'm not going to join your claim of 'shit' due to the fact that Democrats win here, and I think we win honestly. The Republicans sure watch to make sure. Then they admit deafeat.

The thing about elections is that you have to win them with effort. And in the US, the residents of each State have to see to their own State's elections. Nothing I can do about yours. So as the guy on the radio says, 'tag. you're it.'

[Wilms]

18. What does keeping a copy of do?

And what legal force does it have?

I'm not assuming your elections are either fraudulent or screwed up. But what makes you assume the results are accurate? Let alone verified?

Are you in New Mexico? Because they took on the "tag" and have fairly robust auditing...thanks to a citizen, Paul Stokes.

http://verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=6809

[Peace Patriot]

14. Half the states in the U.S. **CANNOT*** be audited. They have NO paper trail.

They are entirely dependent on corporate-controlled 'TRADE SECRET' vote tabulation to tell them who won. The other half COULD BE audited, but they don't do even a minimally adequate audit. Audit = hand count of paper ballots to check for machine fraud.

ALL states now use private, corporate electronic voting machines run on 'TRADE SECRET' programming code that the public is forbidden to review. MOST of this voting machine "market" (80%) is now owned by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation--ES&S, which just bought out Diebold.

Do the math.

[JFN1]

19. Demand to whom?

Not knocking the idea - its awesome - just considering the mechanics of it.

To whom do we make this demand? What ultimatum are we producing to enforce our demand?

[defendandprotect]

20. Former Pres. Jimmy Carter says they couldn't serve as observers in US electcions because...

we lack three necessary criteria --

1 -- Voters must be able to udnerstand the ballot procedures and

the ballots for themselves --

2 -- Voters must have equal rights to have their votes counted --

3 -- A central commission in tehcountry to resolve election disputes --

Carter says that none o these conditions prevail throughout the US and

that Florida violated all three


And, think we all understand that we have to get rid of the GOP voting computers which

have been with us since the late 1960's --

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey --

Was there ever a "Southern Strategy" or just GOP voting computers?

We also have to be mindful of the LARGE COMPUTERS which our corporate-press/MSM have been

using since mid-1960's which gave them vast new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections --

before these computers, they could only report actual vote tallies.

What we saw in 2000 was simply a REVERSAL of those new powers!!


Many think that our problems with voting computers began in 2000 --

In fact, two journalists in Florida immediately became suspicious of the odd and

unverifiable results that the computers were delivering and began an investigation in the

late 1960's --

They had a contract for a book which was immediately taken off the bookshelves in stores --

You can read it at the family's website -- you can also find it here and there for $3 --

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[defendandprotect]

21. Remember, Germany banned the voting computers as "UN-Constitutional" --

hackable --

[Rex]

23. Well you would need a international bodies help, like the UNs.

And I'm sure most backward GOPers would shoot at them as part of the 'Obama Crazy Nation Alliance with the Coffee Cartels' Glenn Beck promised before his rapture to the moon. It wouldn't work, too many people would get hurt. Even the thought would rankle the likes of the Bloated One or Beck and his hoard of ever shrinking minions. Election protection is a racket that the GOP has down to an artform.

[joshcryer]

25. Step 1, volunteer to help run the voting.

Step 2, recognize yourself as an independent auditor.

[Fly by night]

26. That's what we did from 2004-2010, when the (s)election of a Republican House ...

... made passage of the Holt "Voter Confidence Act" an impossibility.

Certainly it was not perfect but it did ban DREs, it did institute paper ballots and it did mandate mandatory random manual audits.

After the 2010 (s)elections (2008 in TN). Republican control means no accountability in elections.

That is their mandate and they know it.