I don't believe that 14000 votes were "found" and I dont believe that 78% went to Prosser

[stevenleser]

I'm about as anti-conspiracy as they come, but this is not credible by a longshot.

[Bravo Zulu]

1. I was born at night, but not last night,

I don't believe any of this for a minute!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. lol. good one

:)

[AndyTiedye]

2. This is What they Meant by "Delivering the Election"

[eowyn_of_rohan]

63. Did someone say that re this election? -nt

[AndyTiedye]

77. Yes. Prosser's Lawyer

[nevergiveup]

3. Not only that but it also resulted in almost the exact vote lead

Prosser needed to avoid a re-count. I too am anti-conspiracy but this stinks to high heaven.

[deacon]

5. Right, a vital point. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. But Kloppenburg can request a recount, right? She just has to pay for it? n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

64. NOW she will. She wouldn't have had the difference been less than 5%

This also gives the thugs much glee, I am sure.

[Common Sense Party]

4. I know a lot of people in local government. There's a lot of incompetence

and carelessness and just plain being overwhelmed in some places. The jury's still out on these votes, but from the local gov't employees I know well, I can easily see this happening. Not everything is a malicious conspiracy.

[stevenleser]

11. As I said, I am about as anti-conspiracy theory as they come. I'm usually the person saying what you

just said.

This time, it is simply not credible.

[Common Sense Party]

19. It might be, it might not be.

You might be surprised at how antiquated, inefficient and outdated some of these local towns and counties are. I am constantly amazed by our local government.

But time and a thorough investigation will tell in this case.

I find it hard to believe this official is going to come out with this, knowing that's it's going to go under a high-powered microscope, if it's a bald-faced fiction.

[AdHocSolver]

23. Brookfield is one of the wealthiest suburbs in Wisconsin.

Waukesha County is one of the most right wing.

[Maraya1969]

30. And no one noticed it was missing from the total vote count?

[kysrsoze]

52. So it's not odd that she refuses to allow anyone to view the results locked solely on her computer?

[Common Sense Party]

54. I'm not following this that closely. Do you have a link for that?

Again, it's just her tabulation of the votes that were on her computer, correct? The actual votes were on paper ballots and were counted by election workers, from what I understand.

If she's not letting anyone look on her computer, I'd find that strange. And if it's a county computer, she really can't deny access. But even if we look at her 'puter, what is it going to tell us that the actual votes don't?

[Terra Alta]

6. I don't believe any of it.

14,000 votes were found on someone's computer? Are there paper ballots to back this up?

[karnac]

14. the votes were NOT found on a computer.

The exact opposite. The Votes were found to NOT BE on the computer.

Either the votes were not entered or were improperly entered into the computer.

The paper trail still exists of the ones that were not entered.

I really don't understand why the headline continues to be that. It's such an attention grabber.

Both sides are doing it.

[PeaceNikki]

7. A) Brookfield would absofuckinglutely go 78% Prosser.

B) Also, it was NOT 14k votes "found". That was a whole city that was allegedly omitted from the totals sent to media. If it were blue, I'd want them certified, too. It has been confirmed by a Democratic observer that the 14k was missing from #'s given to media Tuesday.

[stevenleser]

17. Let me get this straight, you don't find anything too convenient about this?

Lets make a list:

1. That a Republican County Clerk would forget to count a heavily Republican district/city initially, in a close election, to begin with

2. That a day and a half would go by before this was noticed. (Let's again not forget that this is her job. It's not like you or I, whose core competencies lie elsewhere, decided to one day run an election)

3. That the data is all kept on her stand alone computer.

4. That the new finding not only reverses the result, but was conveniently just enough to avoid a state funded mandatory recount

THat is just off the top of my head. And I dont know who this "Democrat" is.

Again, you don't find anything here to say "Hmm, that is uncomfortably convenient and odd..."

[socialist_n_TN]

24. Yep. It smells to high heaven. Now let's see if anything is

done about it.

[PeaceNikki]

26. OK

1) She allegedly missed adding them to totals reported to media. I find this incompetent and terrible and requiring a full explanation that the campaign is investigating.

2) It was noticed Wednesday around noon when certification was happening

3) That's dumb, agreed

4) Yeah, suspect and needs to be investigated - see # 1

I live in Waukesha County. I work in Waukesha County. This is my home. It is very red, but the Democrats here are awesome. I don't know Ramona, but my Democratic CD chair spoke with her about this this afternoon. She confirms these votes were missing in totals and should be counted.

I want it looked into, in depth but I don't want a whole city's votes disenfranchised either.

[BzaDem]

27. It really doesn't look that convenient. The votes were counted AND POSTED on election night from

that town, and you can still see the post of them that night. Here it is ward by ward:

http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/brookfield-gives-prosser-nearly-11k-votes

The only thing remaining is to see if the previous county total included those numbers. But that is something that is trivial to verify. There is no way they could cheat to hide anything like that -- it is not difficult to add numbers on a calculator.

As for your points

1) In this case, the votes were counted on site (with her having nothing to do with the count) on election night. She just forgot to add the numbers, which is easily verifiable.

2) While it is somewhat unprecedented (at least for that county), if there was sufficient incompetence to make the mistake in the first place, it does not surprise me at all that they didn't immediately find it.

3) Again, this is really irrelevant, because the votes in the town were posted beforehand and are public record, and the calculation can be done by anyone with access to city-wide vote totals and a calculator.

4) That is not surprising either. I was actually following the election results all night long, and I was worried the whole night that more votes from the county would swarm in. If you look at the election results in 2010, that county had around 187 thousand votes, whereas in this election there were only around 110 initially reported (around 58% of 2010). In contrast, in Dane county, they had over 83% of 2010's turnout. Everyone thought all night long there would be more votes coming in from that county (including many on DU on the election thread), until they finally announced there were no more. The fact that there turned out to be more (with results that roughly matched the county) is not shocking.

Don't get me wrong -- I am not saying there couldn't possibly be some OTHER issue with the results, or that they are perfect. I am just saying to believe that this PARTICULAR issue was somehow invented out of thin air is quite a stretch. If that election clerk wanted to throw the election to Prosser, this is about the stupidest way she could have done it, because anyone with access to city vote totals and a calculator would discover it in 5 minutes once the error was announced.

[Common Sense Party]

37. Agreed--this WOULD be about the dumbest way to try to steal it.

No one likes to lose, but it's foolish to say that every time we lose one it's due to a nefarious cabal.

[PeaceNikki]

39. And the easiest to prove.

But, DU thinks that the Democratic vice chair for Waukesha County has been bought by Koch.

[Common Sense Party]

41. Check her cupboards and pantry for paper towels! n/t

[BzaDem]

44. The sad part (but not unexpected part) was that all night long, Republicans were posting about how

the whole election was being stolen by "union thugs" and that they had to win it by a sufficient margin so it was steal-proof. Now, similar stuff (with "union thugs" swapped out for Republicans) was posted here, but there was significantly more of this "every election is a stolen election" stuff coming from the other side (in practically every post from the other side).

I am not about to go partake in their rhetoric just because I don't like the result.

[PeaceNikki]

46. Agreed.

And I seriously don't want to entertain disenfranchising a whole city because a clerk fucked up and I don't like their votes.

I mean, PART of me would really like to, but I just couldn't support the idea.

[Quist]

60. Congrats!

You're the only one here I've ever seen say that!:wow: :thumbsup: :hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :fistbump: :woohoo: :applause:

[Bunny]

66. Wow - you just joined today and you're prepared to state that

the person you're high-fiving is the ONLY one you've seen say that??? Your powers are remarkable! :thumbsup:

[Quist]

68. I've been lurking...

About 8 years, off and on. Don't mind me complimenting another member--it's all good.

[truckin]

67. One possibility is that the Repubs thought they had this in the

bag, which is not unreasonable based on prior successes in this election, and once they found out they were behind this was the best option to pull it out.

Not saying this was stolen or not based on what we know, now but there seems to be enough questions for a thorough investigation and recount.

[YvonneCa]

42. It's time to be proactive...

...about elections, at least until our leaders see the need to legislate election reform. Have you heard of 'Video the Vote'?

http://www.videothevote.org/

[truckin]

61. Excellent list. One other important point to add is the fact that

the Clerk said she used Access and didn't save the file with the Brookfield election results. However, as is pointed out in the thread below, you do not have to save in Access. Whatever information that was entered into an Access database is automatically saved when you exit.

If she actually did use Access to tabulate the votes her story is complete BS.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x842293

[Mz Pip]

8. I cynically predicted this

on an earlier thread. Somehow some previously uncounted ballots would magically appear.

I was being cynical. Turns out I was right.


And just enough to avoid a recount. How convenient.

If this doesn't get WI Dems fired up, nothing will.

[Matariki]

21. Me too - when it was close I asked how it is Republicans always pull votes out of their Waukeshas

[Abq_Sarah]

9. Apparently, the entire city of Brookfield was left out

Of the unofficial preliminary numbers when the data was originally transmitted.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119410124.html

[Ellipsis]

10. Waukesha is home of Sensenbrenners district.

It is "carved" around the outskirts of Milwaukee. Mac mansions of the day. Including Ozaukee County. "On the lake." I can definitely believe 74%.

[pacalo]

12. I basically said the same thing in an OP & I got back replies such as

"Where's the evidence?"

Another said Prosser got 99% of the vote in his last election; that incompetence of the county clerk is more likely than fraud.

The latter comment is glaringly contrary to everything I've been reading.

[Imajika]

16. Have you considered the possiblity that the reason Prosser got 99%...

..in a previous election is that he ran unopposed?

This is not uncommon at all you know.

I really haven't researched Prosser's previous elections, but I wonder if people throwing out the 99% number understand the issue.

I mean, did he run unopposed or not?

[glinda]

25. Unopposed.

[Imajika]

13. You know it isn't hard to check and see if an entire city's vote total is missing...

I am guessing the canvass showed the totals had not been reported properly. This would explain why the Democratic member of the canvass, Ramona Kitzinger, agreed with the updated totals. Kitzinger said the canvass went over all the numbers and they are correct. The Republican, Kathy Nickolaus appears incompetent, but it isn't like this is a difficult thing to check. This is a big number of votes and as I understand it, Wisconsin does have a paper trail.

I think many people simply do not understand what the issue is. This is not about finding votes, it is about reporting existing votes.

Why do you believe that Brookfield's votes wouldn't favor Prosser by 78%? It is a very Republican area.

If Democratic Dane county can give near 75% of its vote for Kloppenburg, why would you think a conservative area couldn't vote in like proportions for a Republican?

[Ellipsis]

15. Especially from Brookfield.

[stevenleser]

20. See my #17

[Imajika]

31. This is a totals reporting issue..

What is it you don't understand? It is not hard to check. The canvass ALREADY verified to the satisfaction of the Democrats doing the canvass. Ramona Kitzinger is the Democratic member of the county board canvass and agrees that an error in the totals reported had occurred and the corrected numbers are accurate. You, who probably know nothing about how a canvass works, are making claims you simply can't back up and are essentially suggesting the Democrats participating in the count are all wrong.

"1. That a Republican County Clerk would forget to count a heavily Republican district/city initially, in a close election, to begin with"

She did NOT forget to count votes. She apparently is incompetent and failed to REPORT votes out properly. The votes are there, they were not missing and suddenly found.

"2. That a day and a half would go by before this was noticed. (Let's again not forget that this is her job. It's not like you or I, whose core competencies lie elsewhere, decided to one day run an election)"

Apparently, this was known about since at least yesterday and would have been caught in the canvass either way.

"3. That the data is all kept on her stand alone computer."

It is vote totals that she had on her stand alone computer, NOT actual votes.

"4. That the new finding not only reverses the result, but was conveniently just enough to avoid a state funded mandatory recount"

A complete non issue, if Kloppenburg wants a recount she will have it. Even if it has to be paid for, the costs are trivial. She will have zero problem raising the small amount needed for a full recount and election lawyers to oversee the process.

"THat is just off the top of my head. And I dont know who this 'Democrat' is. Again, you don't find anything here to say 'Hmm, that is uncomfortably convenient and odd...'"

It is not "this democrat", she is Ramona Kitzinger and is the Democratic vice chair of Waukesha County.

It isn't that I don't think the Republicans would cheat, they would. It isn't that I am against a full investigation, I am. The problem here is, this appears to be nothing more than vote total reporting error. This isn't a difficult issue to check and verify, and it appears the canvass has already done that. This is not about "finding" votes, this is about REPORTING existing votes.

[BzaDem]

35. #17 doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is that if someone were to plan to cheat by

claiming to have forgotten to count a town, they would be literally the stupidest cheater alive bar none. It would be something that a hundred people could confirm or refute with nothing more than a calculator and public records.

[Yo_Mama]

71. Exactly

I understand the disappointment, but given the fact that the city had counted the votes, and had sent in the votes, it looks like we have a major case of incompetence rather than a gamed election. Not only that, but this person would have been "cheating" by dumping a huge lead for her side (given her past employment history).

But that's just in this county. Who knows what a recount might show - if there are real suspicions a recount can be done.

Nickolaus is "red" all right - red-faced.

This isn't even an official error - it was caught before the votes were certified. The election is still so close that I'm sure there will be a recount, and it does seem to me that the county might want to consider a better system, but trying to hang some vast conspiracy on this hook is almost as dumb as losing the votes of an entire city.

Btw, I did see somewhere Tuesday night on a blog that people were questioning the AP totals for that county then. It wasn't subtle.

[PeaceNikki]

29. Yes to all of this. Which is why it was caught by noon on Wednesday.

Now I am not saying Kloppenburg should not request records and demand explanation, but again, I do not support an entire city's votes being thrown out. Even if I don't like them.

[joshcryer]

32. Is reporting totals to AP mandatory?

I mean theoretically that's just a favor, not an actual requirement, isn't it?

[PeaceNikki]

34. No idea. Doubt it.

[joshcryer]

38. Going to be an interesting few days.

Thanks for your stance here, it's appreciated, even if it can be unfortunately taken the wrong way.

[PeaceNikki]

43. Indeed - but it's been an interesting few months and will be a solid year.

We have recalls to handle.

And thanks. :)

[joshcryer]

45. Good luck with those!

Hopefully they'll turn out differently. :hi:

(And I'm really looking forward to it either way, this is the guts of civics right here, always fun to watch, but I am afraid I'm too anti-social to really participate.)

[PeaceNikki]

47. We got a good gauge this week. 19 counties flipped.

So I remain optimistic. This race was a LOOONG shot. She was 30 points behind 8 weeks ago.

[Art_from_Ark]

18. A similar thing happened in Arkansas back in 1974

In the 3rd District Congressional race, the Republican incumbent, John Paul Hammerschmidt, was hanging on for dear life against an upstart 28-year-old Democratic challenger, and it looked like the challenger might win. But then, 5000 ballots were "found" in Ft. Smith, helping to push Hammerschmidt to victory.

The name of the upstart challenger? William Jefferson Clinton.

[glinda]

28. Just occurred to me that this might be a diversion to take away from overall election fraud

here and there and elsewhere. Don't think that this wasn't planned. It smells like Rove.

[druidity33]

78. My thought too...

this 'event' in Waukesha is a potent distraction.

:(

[MadBadger]

33. I dont know about the 14,000 votes being found, but I believe the 78% part

Its fucking Waukesha

[moondust]

36. What took so long to discover the "mistake?"

It took her 24-36 hours to discover that her totals were off by 14,000 votes? That she had "overlooked" the second largest town in the county?

As John Nichols pointed out on Ed's show, the 7000-vote lead (conveniently) puts Prosser right about at the cutoff line for a recount.

[PeaceNikki]

40. No, she knew noon Wednesday.

And she contacted GAB who can confirm this.

[Bound by Honor]

49. Sorry, PeaceNikki, but I don't buy it.

The more I read about Ms. Kathy Nickolaus, the more I think she needs to be investigated, and have an complete audit of her systems AGAIN (and eventually find the same defects as the last time). If anything at all, there should be an complete audit of the entire Waukesha county and re-check and re-inspect every vote and make sure they are correctly counted.

I know you live there, but it's absurd. We have to check all the facts, you know... and she's a fierce pro-lifer and worship the Republicans. She is a known liar. I would not take her word at face value. I would have that word appraised and re-inspected and then re-examined completely before I trust her for one second.

I live by the adage: Never trust a Republican, they're only there to screw you.

[PeaceNikki]

51. Yeah, we're doing that. All recounts here are by hand, all votes on paper.

There will be a recount and an investigation of this. As was stated: If this asshole wanted to throw the election to Prosser, this is about the stupidest way she could have done it. Anyone with access to city vote totals and a calculator would discover it in 5 minutes once the error was announced.

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. As Zorra posted earlier...the fix is in. It was planned for months and months.

The repukes no doubt have all their people in place already to cover this. If it hits the RW SCOTUS, the repukes steal another election. The Fix is in. Just like Florida. IMCPO, Zorra is absolutely right. :(

[moondust]

58. Coincidentally,

in theory IF you were in fact going to throw that election you would likely head straight for the biggest red county in the state where you would find both the largest vote totals to massage and the most sympathetic partisans to work with. That happens to be Waukesha County.

[PeaceNikki]

59. We have the GAB and its director is on this. He's not afraid to go after shenanigans

http://uppitywis.org/wi-elect-board-hits-doj-gop-voter-suppression-effort

He's a stand-up guy: http://www.wisconsinreport.com/statenews/detail.php?id=565

[Yo_Mama]

74. But it's not her word

The votes were counted in Brookfield.

I question whether the voters will want someone like Nickolaus in charge of the process for the county any more, but the point is this is something that Nickolaus couldn't control. She couldn't change the votes; the paper had already printed the totals they got from the local election officials.

I think you are missing the obvious - if the votes were tampered with it would have to be done in Brookfield, and there would be no incentive whatsoever to draw attention to it with the mistake about not including the Brookfield votes at the county level.

[lise]

48. Take a look at the

election night thread #2.

I was among those watching the AP counts like crazy that night . As in GLUED. TO. THE. SCREEN.

Waukesha County was the one that people were focused on for a long time because 1) there were so many precincts not reporting and 2) it's a really Red county so people were worried that, when finalized, it would turn the results away from Kloppenburg.

After waiting for hours with (less than half?) of the precincts reporting, all of a sudden all precincts were supposedly in, yet THE NUMBER of VOTES rose only a small bit. It stayed that way forever, til this news today.

Go back to thread #2. A couple posters noted that it seemed wierd that the votes had not moved much when all Waukesha precincts were supposedly finished. One poster noted that the votes had moved by "barely a handful". It's all there in real time.

I went to HS in Waukesha and University at Madison.

This news is disappointing. But I think it's more than likely legit , not nefarious.

[PeaceNikki]

50. Indeed. Incompetent, not nefarious.

[lise]

57. lol. Yes. Make that

"Incompetent" with a capital "I" rather than "legit".

Unless it's possible to be both incompetent and legit at the same time. Which I guess in this case it is.....

[pokerfan]

55. It was either that

or they "find" 30,000 votes with 63% going to Prosser. So while they were scheming this last night, they had a problem. Which could they more easily sell: A large number of "found" ballots with a smaller margin or a smaller number of "found" ballots with a larger margin. I guess they went with the latter.

[PeaceNikki]

56. Except it was discovered at noon on Wednesday and reported to GAB

As was stated: If this asshole wanted to throw the election to Prosser, this is about the stupidest way she could have done it. Anyone with access to city vote totals and a calculator would discover it in 5 minutes once the error was announced.

[fascisthunter]

62. from what we know about the Clerk's Past, WHY did she still have a job

working for the state? Why didn't the dems make sure she could never work for the state again.... are people this fucking naive?

[PeaceNikki]

65. She was elected.

[mod mom]

69. from Kos: Why Prosser needed EXACTLY +7500 votes....

HU APR 07, 2011 AT 08:06 PM EDT
Why Prosser needed EXACTLY +7500 votes....
byCieran

In WI, a recount at state-expense is triggered if an election is within .5% if the candidate requests it, and we have a fully verifiable paper trail to audit election results. That means in this election with approximately 740k for Kloppenburg and 739k for Prosser, the vote gets recounted at state-expense if the election is within ~7400 votes.

So the last 2 days the WI-GOP has been scrambling trying to figure out how they can still get Prosser into office. What was the result of their brain-storming? Add a few extra votes in a friendly area (Waukesha), and call it a clerical error. But in order to steal the election, they NEED to be able to keep a recount from occurring, because a recount would expose their attempted fraud to the light of day.

So they couldn't just give Prosser a couple hundred to put him barely in the lead by 40. They had to give him more than 7500 in order to get above the threshold for a free recount, so that the only way for a recount to happen would be if Kloppenburg ponies up the money for a state-wide recount, which could be expensive. Granted, all of us in WI would be happy to donate to a potential recount effort if it gets to that point, but the resolve of the Kloppenburg camp remains to be seen.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/07/964575/-Why-Prosser-needed

[PRETZEL]

75. That does make sense at one level

because it in essence puts the recount squarely in Kloppenburg's hands, but I'm sure it will happen.

By any chance, has anyone been able to determine any kind of count based on exit polling in those areas. I understand it was a heavy Prosser area and the split may be legit. The number of votes found unreported in the Tuesday count just seems a bit high for anyone particular area.

[slackmaster]

70. As I understand the systems used in WI, it should be pretty straightforward to determine the truth

I'm staying tuned for actual information, official results, and stuff like that before I attempt to make any conclusions about events that have occurred before the actual count is finalized.

[AtomicKitten]

72. I completely agree. These "found" votes reek.

[Blue Owl]

76. Close one this year!

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