If the shutdown lasts past April 30th, I will be unemployed

[scheming daemons]

I work for a private contractor that does work for the Navy.

My employer gets paid by the Navy at the first of every month.

So we have enough money to pay everyone until the end of this month.



I'm not one of the 800,000 federal employees that will be furloughed on Friday night at midnight.

I'm part of the next wave... the private contractors... that will begin losing their jobs in the weeks that follow.



In the worst month of the current recession, February 2009, the American economy shed about 700,000 jobs.


If the shutdown happens... there will be 800,000 immediate lost jobs... followed by 250,000 private sector jobs per week during the shutdown.



The Republicans couldn't stand that the economy was beginning to grow, that unemployment was starting to decrease.



The Republicans, for their 2012 election prospects, need an anti-stimulus.

A government shutdown is the exact opposite of a stimulus. And it has the exact opposite Keynesian effect on the economy that a stimulus does.



The GOP is willing to wreck the economy just as it starts to climb out of the Bush recession... and they're willing to do it because it will hurt Obama's chances in 2012.

That's the only reason.



It's the reason I won't be able to pay my bills once May rolls around.


My only hope is that the effects of the shutdown are SO swift, SO severe, that it lasts less than 3 weeks because the politicians get hammered by their constituents too much.


But even if this budget crisis is resolved.... what looms ahead is the increase in the debt ceiling. And the teabaggers are going to impose the King Kong of shutdowns - failure to increase the debt ceiling.

At that point, EVERYTHING shuts down... including social security payments and "essential" services. Failing to increase the debt ceiling put the US treasury into default. And that will make this shutdown look like child's play.



*THIS* is what happens because people either didn't vote or voted GOP last november. Taking your disappointment out on Democrats in the November elections has put the country on the brink, America.


The government you deserve.

[LAGC]

1. Oh shit, so sorry to hear that.

The Teabaggers want to take credit for the shut-down. I think they will get their wish if it lasts for very long.

It's going to affect A LOT of people, both in the public and private sectors as you have attested to.

If anything positive comes out of this, it will be the complete evisceration of the Tea Party.

[Newest Reality]

2. Well then, if that happens,

welcome to my current class and present stature.

I have nothing and there is nowhere to go from here. It is purely a life of subsistence and an ongoing effort to survive. There is no safety net, and there is no bailout here. There is no self-empowerment or much of a choice other than what circumstance might allow. There is no way to imagine any form of security or certainty, other than what assumptions and hope might provide. This is the place between life and death where you wonder what freedom might come from your demise. This is where you might even be willing to sacrifice your life if liberty could be the potential result.

This is the result of what we have believed, payed for, worked for, and supported. We are seeing the result now of working for supporting lies and simulations of reality.

Perhaps, on the other side of this, when it all pans out, we won't ever go there again. Maybe, if we can stand up, turn away from our corporate control and servitude, and embrace a re-localized and sustainable future, we will look back knowingly and obliterate this artificial, manufactured lifestyle with a vow to never return while we find a new form of meaning, happiness and purpose in a far different, yet essential and timeless, way of life.

[LooseWilly]

3. I submit that it was the failure of Democrats to FIGHT for what they pledged that's at fault.

I submit that it is Obama's recurring capitulations and pressure on the House to capitulate to shitty deals that the Senate "negotiated"... rather than fight between 2008 and 2010... that led to the apathy that resulted in 2010 results.

There's no way to prove that my interpretation is correct, other than to try to fight as I suggest that the electorate wanted, and see what the results are.

To do so might endanger corporate funding though... and it might show DLC strategists to be incompetent assholes (which might threaten their jobs)... so I doubt we'll be seeing that happen.

In the meantime... the Right Wing had a chance to carry out their policy... and the result was a complete failure of governance and eventual failure electorally.

Between 2008 and 2010 the "conservative" Democrats... the "Blue Dogs"... the "DLC"ers... had their chance to govern as Democrats in pursuit of Conservative-Independent and Moderate-Conservative votes... the result was paralyzed governance (in the shape of continuance of W admin. policies) and half-catastrophic electoral failure.

I don't know what else to say.

The people not being interested in voting for the 2008-2010 style Democrats can be blamed... or the 2008-2010 Democrats can be blamed for not making the voters feel like bothering...

Last I knew... the theory was that the politicians were supposed to represent the people... not that the people were supposed to support the politicians no matter how little their interests are being represented.

That last... and your position... is that of a monarchy.

Fuck that...

(Maybe it's the government... and the consequences... that you deserve... for all your postings demanding loyalty to a brand, rather than representation of the voters...)

[Sherman A1]

5. Precisely

"Last I knew... the theory was that the politicians were supposed to represent the people... not that the people were supposed to support the politicians no matter how little their interests are being represented."

Well Said!
:toast:

[LooseWilly]

6. It's a shame that DLC theorists will never put my hypothesis to the test...

:toast:

But it's good to hear that others think there is something sound in it. I feel a little less lunatic-y that way... :+

[littlewolf]

9. I submit that this whole mess is the fault of the Democratic party

they refused to even SUBMIT a budget all the while holding majorities in both houses of congress as well as the WH.
If they had done their job this would NOT be happening ...

[Justitia]

17. and you'd be wrong - remember needing 60 votes in the Senate to do ANYTHING?

or did that whole debacle slip your mind?

[littlewolf]

21. Nope didn't slip my mind .. however show me ANY

budget that was submitted ... for 2011 .... nada .... they punted .... now they have problems

[BzaDem]

10. The voters have only themselves to blame, unless someone forced them at gunpoint to stay home.

If a voter can't reconcile not getting what they want with voting for the preferable of the two parties, that is the VOTER'S problem. And they are about to realize that in a way that will make them never forget it. Reality has a tendency to do that (see 2000).

Fortunately, humans generally evolved to not be irrational for long periods of time (just as they evolved to not repeatedly touch a hot stove). The only question is how much damage to themselves occurs before they magically become rational again.

[LooseWilly]

18. You completely misunderstand me...

... and stubbornly try to invert the logic of what I'm saying, on purpose I suspect.

I will now re-invert what you said to mean what I said... because we are in complete disagreement here.

If the politicians can't reconcile not getting what they want from voters.... that is the POLITICIAN'S problem (and, in this case Scheming Daemon's problem... and the problem of all of those like YOU who would try to blame the voters). And politicians of the Democratic Party are about to realize that in a way that will make them {turn to pundits who will rationalize for them that it is all the fault of the voters for not voting for them despite the fact that said politicians were steadfastly refusing to do anything to convince the voters that there was any point in bothering... much as this post is doing} (see 2000).

{Un-}Fortunately, politicians {haven't} generally evolved {enough} to not be irrational for long periods of time (just as they have not evolved enough to keep their greed, corruption and lusts under control enough to not be regularly caught). The only question is {how many votes they have to lose, how many elections, how many third parties have to arise to challenge them} before they magically become {rational enough to think to start co-opting some of the ideas that're gaining traction with voters, and start fighting politically for those ideas that the voters are actually interested in, rather than trying to just fake it so as not to risk having the Powers That Be feel threatened} again.

In the meantime, while the politicians stubbornly hold out, holding onto your dogma that the voters are supposed to see them as the more agreeable and go to the effort to vote for them... well people will suffer under the opposition's increasing grip on power. The part that you are glossing over, however, is that many of us are in the same position as Scheming Daemons no matter whether the Democrats-As-Obama-Has-Led-Them or the Republicans are in charge... it really makes no difference to us.

[BzaDem]

23. What you haven't seem to figure out yet is that if you invert something that is correct, you get

something that is false.

Not something that is true.

See how that works? In logical terms, the opposite of true is false (not true). So while you can certainly say whatever you want, the ability to articulate nonsense does not imply that what you articulated has any basis in reality.

In reality, if a Democratic politician loses to a Republican politician because you didn't vote for them, they'll just join the private sector and make three times (or ten times) as much money as they ever did in government. If you told them you were "punishing" them, they would laugh in your face.

See, they aren't affected negatively by right wing policy at all. YOU, on the other hand, are. So just like someone who thinks it might be fun to touch a hot stove, you will eventually realize this, in a way that is seared into your memory. On the other hand, there is really little you can do to politicians. The worst you can do is triple their salary. Reality bites, doesn't it?

Just like a small child eventually realizes that tantrums generally don't get them what they want, you will eventually figure this all out (as many did in 2000). You can deny it all you want now, but the truth all of a sudden become false just because of your denial. You can continue to concoct imaginary fantasy stories about all the mythical power you have, but that is just cognitive dissonance borne out by your inability to realize that there is always going to be a difference between

a) what you want

and

b) what you get, not just now but throughout the course of your natural life.

In particular, you will realize that this difference won't be removed by making things as bad as yourself as possible (as many did in 2000). In reality, your power is solely determined by your ability to convince a majority of the primary electorate and the general electorate to agree with you -- and not a bit more.

[dflprincess]

22. Right, it's the voters' fault that Obama and the Congressional Democrats

dropped the ball and did nothing with the mandate they were handed in 2008.

Maybe, just maybe, the voters don't see any point in continuing to be Charlie Brown trusting Lucy not to snatch the football away.

[BzaDem]

24. "Maybe, just maybe, the voters don't see any point..." Oh, they'll see a point. I can guarantee you

of that.

The only question is how much damage they inflict upon themselves before reality kicks in. The damage won't affect politicians (who are happy to move to the private sector if they lose, making MULTIPLE times their previous salary) -- it'll just affect the people who think that throwing a tantrum will ever get them even a smidgen of a result. 90% of Nader's voters figured this out sometime between 2000 and 2004, and the remaining people who aren't yet enlightened will become so (if only because humans have evolved in a way that generally prevents long term irrationality).

[bvar22]

16. Agree +1

I would rather Fight and Lose than to give it all away in the spirit of Bi-Partisanship.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[notesdev]

4. It's going to happen eventually anyway

may as well take our medicine now and get it over with

You didn't think we could eternally spend more money than we make without any sort of reckoning, did you?

[zbdent]

7. I'm sure my wife's co-worker would be telling you "enjoy the vacation" ...

wife works at the VA, and a guy who was noticeably irritated (he claimed that Obama had the SCOTUS stacked in his favor, so without even hearing that he listens to Hannity and O'Reilly you knew he was brain damaged ...) was saying he was going to enjoy his "unpaid vacation", sleeping in and watching his wife watch her daytime soaps ...

[tanyev]

8. Reccing because you explained it so well.

Not because you might lose your job. :(

[scheming daemons]

11. Thanks.... this whole thing is madness

[JoeyT]

12. Remember: Nothing is Obama's fault.

Ever. Repeat that meme over and over and over.

If you repeat it often enough, it just might become true.

Always be sure to tie any screwiness of the Republicans to people who are insufficiently worshipful, too.

[LiberalEsto]

15. Yep. He COULD call a press conference

and blast the daylights out of the Teabagger party, scolding them for jeopardizing human lives by shutting down Medicaid and other funding.

But nooooooooooooooooo

[ehrnst]

13. I will be on my congresscritters every single day to end this -

And to make the Republicans squirm under a barrage of accusations about throwing women and the elderly under the wheels of tax cuts.

I do know that Planned Parenthood's demise will mean many, many families will go under - they are the primary physician of many teenagers and women.

[LiberalEsto]

14. My husband is in a similar boat.

If the Republican shutdown happens, his company, a federal contractor, requires their people to use up their vacation days. After that, I believe they're screwed. I don't know what will happen in terms of being able to keep those jobs.

I've been unemployed two and a half years myself, so this is scaring me mightily.

[NightWatcher]

19. We just got "the email" from our company

We work on several government construction jobs and were just given word that the jobs may shut down as early as tonight. We are working one job at a Naval Station in Florida and our ship has been ordered held at the dock on standby in Norfolk, pending this whole thing.

So, basically the shuttering of how many people and projects is because the repukes hate women?

[StarburstClock]

20. What's a private contractor for the Navy do?

My first guess isn't pretty.