RE: the Waukesha issue. Info from my Dem CD chair

[PeaceNikki]

(who I met years ago on DU and now know IRL)

on Ramona Kitzinger (the Democrat who was overseeing the canvass)

"She validated the information that she had. She compared the tape to the totals that she was given. That's the job of the Board of Canvass. Let me first state that in 2009 & 2010, I was the Wauk County Dem Chair and Ramona was my Vice Chair. She is a great Democrat and a retired union member. She also is the most honest person I know. (Which is why we selected her.) The board of canvass can only operate with the information they are given. If Nickolaus did something improper, we likely can catch her with technology and proper accounting. (Not to mention that Kloppenburg has the best lawyer on the planet.)"

[monmouth]

1. Good news Nikki, thanks for posting...n /t

[City Lights]

2. I really appreciate your informative updates, Nikki!

:yourock:

[PeaceNikki]

4. Kathy Nickolaus is an incompetent piece of shit. He said Ramona is "the epitome of honest."

People on DU have questioned her integrity, accusing her of being bought by Koch, doubting her because *they* don't know her.

Let me say this... Waukesha County is as red of a county as they come, but the Democrats and Democratic Party here are awesome, smart and on fucking top of this, I assure you.

[Me.]

7. Shouldn't The Feds Be Called In?

[PeaceNikki]

12. For what? A dumb clerical error?

That's all it APPEARS to be at this point. We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that.

[still_one]

18. If that is the case she should be fired /nt

[PeaceNikki]

19. She was elected and she will have to face the voters in 2012

[Me.]

50. I Am Not The Only One Thinking This

“UPDATE: 10:22 p.m. -- The group Citizen Action of Wisconsin is calling for an immediate federal investigation and impoundment of all computer equipment, ballots, and other relevant evidence needed to verify a fair vote count in Waukesha County.

“Given the shocking character of this afternoon’s revelations, and its tremendous importance for the perceived integrity of Wisconsin’s governmental institutions, it is absolutely essential that there be a full investigation which is so beyond reproach that all Wisconsin citizens can have faith in the validity of the outcome,” said Robert Kraig, executive director of Citizen Action. “In the current political climate in Wisconsin, only an investigation by a U.S. Attorney can be seen by all citizens of the state as independent and above politics."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/07/david-prosser-wisconsin-supreme-court_n_846431.html

[PeaceNikki]

51. As I said repeatedly:

"We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that."

[brentspeak]

52. Unless you yourself are personally involved in investigating the matter

please refrain from using the word "we" as if you are some appointed spokesperson for Wisconsin Democrats.

Funny how you first scoffed at the notion that the Feds be involved, but when confronted with proof that other WI Democrats do want Federal involvement, you're left speechless.

[PeaceNikki]

53. Please refrain from telling me what to do.

kthxbai

This incompetent asshole fucking clerk is responsible for counting MY vote.

[Bluerthanblue]

3. K&R

thanks for this.

And for staying positive

:hi:

[PeaceNikki]

5. Thanks, I have to stay positive, we have a lot of fighting left to do.

We have 8 recalls in the works, 2 filed. We're not done and this election was not the totality of our fight. It is one piece.

I have been called a troll here because I trust Ramona and my rep. A whole city was (mistakenly? remains to be seen) omitted from county totals. And I seriously don't want to entertain disenfranchising a whole city because a clerk fucked up and I don't like their votes.

As was stated elsewhere on DU: If this asshole wanted to throw the election to Prosser, this is about the stupidest way she could have done it. Anyone with access to city vote totals and a calculator would discover it in 5 minutes once the error was announced.

[MoDupey]

6. Thanks again

This is just so frustrating. I think I could have dealt with this better if he had just "won" to begin with. Not that I wouldn't have been upset, but getting a nice victory taken away a day later under this circumstance can make one feel helpless. Gotta get out of this funk now. Will try very hard to stay positive. Again thanks for your updates. They sure do help.

[PeaceNikki]

8. Kicking for Ramona who is being accused of bullshit here on DU

[eowyn_of_rohan]

25. I haven't seen the accusations of bullshit - but there are questions

when this kind of thing happens, everyone becomes a suspect, even those who are honest and well-intentioned.

[TxVietVet]

9. I hope the Democrats in Wisconsin can get the party back with a spine

and put a stop to activity like this. The conservanazis will commit fraud get the power they want. I hope she has a very, very good lawyer.

You know, over 20 years ago, I moved to work in Wisconsin. I voted in every election. To me, it was a very progressive state. Then, with all the conservanazi propaganda blaring over the airwaves all those years, Wisconsin has turned into a cess pool of the conservanazis' activities against workers' and voters' right. I used to know some great progressives in Wisconsin. I hope they can turn this around.

[PeaceNikki]

10. If there's one thing y'all have gotten a taste of in the past 8 weeks, it's how awesome WI Dems are.

We are on this. People need to stop acting like "it's over" based on the outcome of this race. If there's one thing you guys should know after the last 8 weeks, Wisconsin Dems will not give up. If there was fraud, we'll find it. If there was incompetence, we'll expose it to the light of day.

And if in the end Klopp loses, we fucked some shit up. This was a non-partisan spring election with ONE statewide race. We We lifted Kloppenburg up from a THIRTY POINT DEFICIT she held 8 weeks ago. To get it CLOSE to 50/50 is a fucking miracle.

We have 8 recalls in the works, 2 filed. We're not done and this election was not the totality of our fight. It is one piece.

[Scuba]

13. This is not anywhere near over. We knew that when we got in....

...knowing that Walker couldn't be recalled until Jan, 2012.

But Progressives in Wisconsin are THE BEST and will keep fighting the good fight as long as it takes.


Special thanks to you Nikki for keeping us informed and enthused!!!

[boston bean]

21. I'm not really feeling enthused. Nikki seems pretty sure it was a "clerical error" no big deal.

So maybe we just shouldn't worry about it anymore.


nothing wrong went on there in Wisconsin.

[PeaceNikki]

23. Where the FUCK have I said not to worry about it? Let's review:

I have said...

If Nickolaus did something improper, we likely can catch her with technology and proper accounting. (Not to mention that Kloppenburg has the best lawyer on the planet.)

We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that.

Should it have happened? no
Is the clerk an incompetent asshole? yes
Fraud? Doesn't look that way
Should we keep looking? yes

That was a whole city. If it were blue, I'd want them certified, too. It has been confirmed by my County Democratic vice-chair that the 14k was missing from #'s given to media Tuesday.

Where did I ever say "no big deal" and/or not to worry about it?

[boston bean]

24. What is your opinion Nikki, do you believe very likely it was a clerical error?

Because that is how most of your post come across.

Just upthread you called it a "dumb clerical error" when someone suggested some heads roll.

[PeaceNikki]

27. Yes, I said it APPEARS to be, but we're investigating. I HOPE there's fraud found.

Now answer my question and tell me where I have said "no big deal" or not to worry.

I'm waiting.

[boston bean]

29. Oh, you want me to go find exactly where you said those exact words.

That is a lame game.

I take your comments in totality.

You obviously feel there is nothing to see and move along cause Wisconsin has a lot of important stuff to do, like re-calls etc. not worrying about finding 14000 votes days later to swing an election.

However, I think forcefully fighting this for a hand count w/o trying to convince people prior that it was a "dumb clerical error" is the way to go. You're sort of letting the air out of the balloon.

What would republicans do? That is what I would like to see the Dems do.

Make an issue out of this like the world fucking depends on it.

[PeaceNikki]

31. You obviously can't read for comprehension.

If Nickolaus did something improper, we likely can catch her with technology and proper accounting. (Not to mention that Kloppenburg has the best lawyer on the planet.)

We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that.

That clerk is responsible for handling MY vote! The voters deserve an explanation and we are investigating.

[boston bean]

33. I am beginning the feel the same way about you.

If we are accepting this is a clerical error, why in the world would one want to fight their fingers to the bone?

[PeaceNikki]

36. Because of her history of shenanigans AND incopetence of that degree needs a FULL investigation.

It's pretty simple.

[boston bean]

41. not really, because as you said before you wouldn't want votes

not to be counted over some dumb clerical error.

Clerical error trumps everything. If it was a clerical error, I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I am not willing to make that assumption just yet.

I will when the evidence is in, and all ballots are hand counted.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

28. You aren't alone

We've been through this many times before with election problems in other state. A healthy dose of caution or skepticism is in order til we get more info, IMO.

[PeaceNikki]

30. Be skeptical, that's good. Turn over every rock, audit every vote.

But accusing Ramona of being bought off by the Koch brothers is fucking ridiculous.

[boston bean]

32. I would llike to comment that I never thought ill of Ramona in any way.

Just that she might not know what she doesn't know.

Just as i feel you might not know.

None of us will know until there is a hand recount of all ballots statewide.

And I think we should be pushing for this rather than accepting this is some "dumb clerical error".

Also there is some political gain in making this an issue. Just ask the republicans how to do it.

We all know there is a problem with our elections. This would be a great way to highlight those.

So it's bigger than Ramona, or Peacenikke, or Wisconsin for that matter.

[PeaceNikki]

35. Instead of putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things wholly untrue

maybe you should recognize that we are after the same thing: A full investigation and a total recount and ANY and ALL fraud and incompetence FULLY exposed. I want that probably more than you because this directly affects ME, my family, my community and my votes.

Our points of contention are very specific to these 14,000 votes.

[boston bean]

37. Good, then stop telling people it was a dumb clerical error.

You can't have it both ways.

I believe we just don't know and I want a thorough investigation.

[PeaceNikki]

38. I said "appears". That word means something.

[boston bean]

44. OK. Although you didn't say appears above. and the totality of your posting and

you told me you believed it probably was.

So why would any one want to fight it?

No one knows for sure at this point. We need to make this a major issue.

This is going to be my last post (on the subject to you) and you can have the last word.

[PeaceNikki]

45. And I will. It *IS* a major issue.

We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that.

[boston bean]

47. And you can't know it was a "dumb clerical issue" either!

Really, promise that is my last word!!!

[PeaceNikki]

48. I never claimed to know. I said "appear" repeatedly.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

39. For some, the points of contention might go a bit further

than those 14,000 votes. Due to the 'where there's smoke there's fire' adage

[PeaceNikki]

40. And look at me agreeing throughout this thread on that point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=841948&mesg_id=842489

[eowyn_of_rohan]

42. But you said "Our points of contention are very specific to these 14,000 votes "

I don't mean to hassle you - it is just rather confusing.

[PeaceNikki]

43. Points of contention between me and the guy to whom I was responding.

How is that confusing?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

46. quite well, thank you

:crazy:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

34. I haven't seen that accusation, and certainly didn't make it myself

But I do remember Theresa LePore, the DINO on the Palm Beach election board. We've been seriously burned by corrupt, or well meaning but naive, election board workers in the past. Just dont want it to happen in my state.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. this is the attitude that will

untimately bring success.

Keep up the good fight.

I appreciate your wise, clear headed perspective and efforts.

:hi:

[TxVietVet]

56. Keep up the good work. I supported Wisconsin Dems the whole time I lived in Wisconsin.

I can't say that for my union brothers and sisters that listen to the conservanazi propaganda on WISN and WTMJ.

[SidDithers]

11. K&R...nt

Sid

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Wonderful to know, Nikki!

"If Nickolaus did something improper, we likely can catch her with technology and proper accounting. (Not to mention that Kloppenburg has the best lawyer on the planet.)" :bounce:

[PeaceNikki]

15. She's rep'd by the attorney who represented Al Franken.

Marc Elias, an attorney with Perkins Coie, a Washington D.C.-based firm with an office in downtown Madison. Elias is the same attorney who represented Democratic challenger Al Franken in his eight-month epic recount battle with incumbent Republican Norm Coleman. Franken eventually prevailed, winning his U.S. Senate seat by 312 votes.

[still_one]

16. This is not the first time Nickolaus has come under scrutiny from what I heard /nt

[PeaceNikki]

17. Indeed, it's not. That's clear. She's an incompetent asshole.

[boston bean]

20. incompetent???? she was granted immunity...

she is a criminal..

[still_one]

22. Actualy she has had problems before, that is clear according to different sources

"Prior to the election, Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus was heavily criticized for her decision to keep the county results on an antiquated personal computer, rather than upgrade to a new data system being utilized statewide. Nickolaus cited security concerns for keeping the data herself - yet when she reported the data, it did not include the City of Brookfield, whose residents cast nearly 14,000 votes.

Throughout the day Thursday, official canvass numbers flipped the lead back and forth between Prosser and Kloppenburg. While many believed a recount was inevitable, the addition of the Brookfield votes for Prosser could push the justice's lead beyond the legal threshold that would trigger an automatic recount. Under state law, Kloppenburg could still ask for a recount up to three days after the official canvass, but would have to pay for it herself."

http://www.bradblog.com/

What I said is essentially that this person should be fired, not that she did a criminal act, that needs to be proven

[eowyn_of_rohan]

49. When Nickolaus put the results in her personal computer, they had not yet been made public

Could she have been planning to make some changes to them when she decided to put the info in her own computer... ?

(this from another thread)
1) Folks in Brookfield voted Tuesday.

2) The votes were added up Tuesday evening and the city sent the totals to Kathy Nickolaus the County Clerk Tuesday night.

3) The Brookfield newspaper got the vote totals 'from' the city of Brookfield and posted an article Wednesday.

4) At the County level Kathy Nickolaus realized around noon Wednesday that she didn't have the city of Brookfield in her total for The Waukesha County when she looked at a print out that showed 'all zeros' for the city of Brookfield.

5) Thursday afternoon (before Kathy Nickolaus' press conference) Brookfield CITY Clerk Kris Schmidt said she sent her numbers to the county clerk's office Tuesday night that showed David Prosser with 10,859 votes and JoAnne Kloppenburg with 3,456. She said those numbers did not change in the postmortem she did after the election. "I have no clue what’s going on. she said. "No one has officially told me what’s going on."

[Blue Owl]

54. Rip this open and let the reeking truth be told

the GOP are LIARS, CHEATERS, AND THIEVES.

[PeaceNikki]

55. Agreed. Investigations are underway. Kloppenburg has Franken's attorney.

The Democratic Party is on this and the GAB is on it. The director on WPR yesterday sounded pissed and said he'd demand an investigation. And he's not afraid of calling shenanigans.

[emcguffie]

57. I have a question for anyone who knows.

Will more counties than just Waukesha be recounted? Has that been asked for?

I certainly hope so. And I apologize if it's a dumb question. I don't know much about elections and vote counting.