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Wisconsin clerk's explanation - MAJOR RED FLAGS

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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:12 AM
Original message
Wisconsin clerk's explanation - MAJOR RED FLAGS
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 07:23 AM by markpkessinger
I am an IT specialist for a large law firm with a number of years' experience in designing and coding Access and SQL Server databases, as well as in evaluating data security for highly sensitive data. When I heard the clerk's explanation, in her press conference, of how the votes were supposedly imported but not "saved," my antennae immediately went up.

First, Access has a built-in autosave feature, whereby if a user imports data into a table from an external source (such as an Excel spreadsheet, which the clerk claims she imported from), or even if the user is manually entering data into an existing table, and then simply closes the database, Access automatically saves the data, and does not prompt the user to "save." A user is prompted to "save" when a completely new database object (such as a table, query, VBA module or report) is created, or when the design of an existing object is altered. If the cursor moves to a new record, the record the cursor was previously on is automatically saved. If a table or even the whole database is abruptly closed, the data is still automatically saved. If you import data and then your computer suddenly crashes, requiring a restart, or the power goes off, the imported data will still be there.

Now, if one is a fairly sophisticated Access user with some experience in writing underlying VBA code, one could conceivably create a macro or VBA procedure that would perform data validation requiring the user to then hit a "save" button (and discarding the data if the button were not clicked), but I didn't get the impression, based on the kinds of terminology she used to describe what may have happened, that the clerk has anywhere near that level of coding expertise. In fact, she claimed that she "may have turned the macros off"; but if she did that, then the database would have defaulted back to native Access functionality, which would mean the autosave feature would again be active.

Second, the clerk claims to have put all the data onto a personal computer in her office to which only she has the password. She said she did this in order to provide greater security of the data. But data security, especially when dealing with data as sensitive as votes, involves more than merely guarding against inappropriate or unauthorized access. It also entails making sure that at least one other person -- someone who is independent of the primary user -- can gain access in the event an unforeseen event (such as the sudden incapacitation or death of the primary user) should arise. From the standpoint of data security, it is just as important to ensure that all appropriate parties have the access they may need under any circumstance that can reasonably be anticipated as it is to protect the data from unauthorized access. Also, a database storing data a sensitive as votes would be expected to implement complete record-level change tracking, such that for each ballot record in the database, a complete history could be retrieved, for each ballot, of the dates and times the record was modified and the user who performed the modification -- in other words, an audit trail. But if data validity and security are of paramount importance -- and in this case they certainly are -- then the last thing you want is for data to be accessible by one individual with no ability to independently monitor that individual's activities within the database.

Finally, and this is related to my second point above, Access and Excel are in any case wholly inappropriate containers in which to store sensitive voting data, owing to the fact that their "back ends" are fairly easily accessed and tampered with, and their lack of native user-level activity tracking and record-level change tracking. (That functionality can be created, but again, it would require someone with a pretty advanced knowledge of VBA coding.)

The technical inconsistencies, taken together with the fact that the clerk just "happened" to find almost the exact number of votes not only to hand the election to Prosser, but to insulate him against the threat of an automatic recount, and the rather troubled history this clerk seems to have had in the past concerning matters of data security, says to me that this entire incident is suspicious enough to warrant a very thorough investigation.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. +14,000
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tahrir Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. 'It's Not the People Who Vote that Count; It's the People Who Count the Votes'
bet
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #37
55. My feelings exactly!
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Roy Rolling Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. First Thing:
Hire an incompetent who will put the data on one unsecured computer so that when the data is hacked and changed, she has plausible deniability. How can a moron be expected to protect against such sophisticated computer hacking? :sarcasm:

And don't even mention how a partisan political hack with no computer experience---or if she does she is a complete idiot----gets hired to count the votes in the first place. Oh yeah, Stalin in the post above answered that...

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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #64
118. key words: "partisan political hack"..... nt
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #64
141. Stalin???
I thought it was by Newt Gingrich!
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. I hope they all end up in prison
A lady can dream right!!!
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Personally, I want them in a hole so deep they'll have to pump air to their asses.
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. HA
What a creative statement! :rofl:

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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
49. A waste of air IMHO
n/t
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. K + R
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northoftheborder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank your for your knowledge.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. Almost sounds like the new votes are just an excel sheet she filled out.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yep....
...and that's why, if I were investigating this, I would insist first on a very detailed explanation of exactly how the voting data was transferred from whatever system was in use at the polling places to the Excel spreadsheets the clerk imported from, whether any files exported first to Excel were modified between the time they were exported to Excel and then imported by the Clerk into Access. And whoever investigates needs to demand access to the raw data.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. It seems she would have to prove the data wasn't modified..
Instead of others having to prove that it was.
The burden of proof should be on her.

I also read that she was given immunity in a previous illegal election scandal in the past.
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TheEuclideanOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
140. Isn't it designed this way?
I am also a developer who is familiar with Access and SQL. To me, the only way that any type of system would allow Access to be used to store the data would be if it was intended to be hacked. I realize that you are trying to describe it in general terms, but.....Access???? Really? The whole point of Access is to make it easy for people to just open an access database and easily update the data. But I do remember from the very beginning that these voting systems are not verified as secure (from the site BlackBoxVoting.org (I think that was the URL)).

How can information that is so private be stored on Access? Basically that means that the person who can open it, can simply just change all of the votes to the candidate they like.
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TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #140
143. Bingo. Someone else informed her that actions could be taken to swing the election.
Based on what I remember about her and her vote clerking activities, she's not really competent to do it by herself. She had help.

Investigate, prosecute and lock 'em up for life.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
61. How would she fake the paper trail?
Because Wisconsin does have one?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
90. If she just filled them out
then you can also find out what date she filled those votes out, no matter how they tried to hide the dates
an expert can show when the votes were validated.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. How difficult do you imagine will it be to recreate the actual vote totals from the tapes?
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 07:48 AM by leveymg
I've done poll watching and voter protection for several electoral cycles, and at the end of the night at the precinct, the Board of Election workers tally the tapes, and make sure that the votes recorded match the number of votes cast. They are able to do this by matching the number of eligible voters recorded in the poll books against the number of votes the machines count. If there is any discrepancy due to spoiled ballots, walk-aways, etc., all that gets recorded and cross-checked before the results get phoned in.

Ideally, there is an observer from both parties watching as this counting and cross-checking process is carried out. It seems to me that it would not be difficult to simply scrap the County Clerk's database, and go back to the poll books and tapes to reconstruct the actual outcome. Provided the machines didn't miscount, the results after the audit should be clean.

Anyone know if there is a paper trail for the votes cast in that county, and what type of machines are used? What about the paper reports the BOE workers filled-out and filed in sealed envelopes the night of the election - where are they? What about the records the Democratic inside poll watchers should have recorded and kept?

Based upon what I know, I cannot imagine a discrepancy of thousands of votes being "discovered" later by a County Clerk. There's something very wrong here.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. That's the part of the process I am not as familiar with...
I wasn't sure how the data was initially collected. But, assuming the tapes still exist, it shouldn't be a major problem to recreate the totals and independently verify the results.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Do you have any questions? I have to run in 2 minutes. (I'll be back in about an hour)
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 07:52 AM by leveymg
Thanks for your explanation of the database. Very useful!
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. That's an excellent question. I would expect the county clerk to have gotten
one of those envelopes after they broke the book, but the D and R county chairs should each have a sealed envelope, too.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
34. I'm hoping that workers at each voting place are assigned by each political party
And that everyone wrote down or received a copy of the votes.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
42. There's something very wrong here.
Ding ding we have a winner
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. And I Too Have Done The Same Thing... The Votes Are Counted & Then Locked
down. This smells worse than rotten fish!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
62. Do the tapes say who got the vote?
Never saw one. Don't know.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #62
89. The tapes record the votes on each machine, The totals are tallied at the precinct, and the results
are called in to the Registrar of Voters Office, and if there are observers, by the Dem and Rep observers on site to the Election Protection Office or County HQ.

If there's a problem -- missing ballots, spoiled ballots, overcounts, undercounts, people being turned away at the poll, etc. -- everyone knows about it that night, and nobody leaves until all the possible explanations for a discrepancy between the number of voters and the total cast are accounted for.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #89
110. So you're saying no discrepancy and all were accounted for?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #110
138. If there were a major discrepency, it would have been known the night of the election,
and it wouldn't be a week until the rest of us learned about it.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #89
114. Yea that "Democrat" that verified that there were 11,000 votes missing should
have put an end to the process until they found the votes. How can you call an election without all the data in?
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
63. It is state law in most places that there is an observer
present from both parties. This is only the first of a series of counts and cross checks that is carried out.
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
77. I share your view
The numbers should be easily verifiable to election night.

Gut feel though something is amiss, either they ran into difficulties on Tuesday night/Wednesday morning and missed a step in the process or had confusion of some type.

From the press conference I get the vibe that Nickolaus is a bit overbearing by the way she shoed away the Dem precinct captain. I could envision her creating a very chaotic situation and then later taking advantage of the chaos she caused.

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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
98. AUTOSAVE always works? explain this..
http://allenbrowne.com/bug-01.html

Flaws in Microsoft Access

Provided by Allen Browne, January 2004. Last updated: April 2010.
Losing data when you close a form

When you enter data into a form, Access saves the record automatically. An error message notifies you if the record cannot be saved. Or does it?

Use the Close action or method, and the form fails to notify you if the record cannot be saved. The form closes, and your entry is silently lost.

To demonstrate this flaw, download AccessFlaws.zip, open the form LosingData, and follow the instructions.

(Note: if you close the form with the at the right end of the form's title bar, you do receive a warning that the record cannot be saved. Typically the problem occurs when you place a Close command button on your form.)
Examples where the record would be lost

There are many reasons why a record could not be saved, such as:

* a required field was left blank;
* the record would create a duplicate in a unique index;
* the form's Before Update event was cancelled;
* a Validation Rule was not met.

She has an old computer and equally old buggy version of ACCESS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Access

1993: Microsoft specified the minimum hardware requirements for Access v2.0 as: Microsoft Windows v3.1 with 4 MB of RAM required, 6 MB RAM recommended; 8 MB of available hard disk space required, 14 MB hard disk space recommended. The product shipped on seven 1.44 MB diskettes. The manual shows a 1993 copyright date.

Originally, the software worked well with relatively small databases but testing showed that some circumstances caused data corruption. For example, file sizes over 10 MB proved problematic (note that most hard disks held less than 500 MB at the time this was in wide use), and the Getting Started manual warns about a number of circumstances where obsolete device drivers or incorrect configurations can cause data loss. With the phasing out of Windows 95, 98 and ME, improved network reliability, and Microsoft having released 8 service packs for the Jet Database Engine, the reliability of Access databases has improved and it supports both more data and a larger number of users.

Problems autosaving still occur? YES.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/1/helproom/393667/microsoft-access--autosave-function-lost-me-data/

Essentially, we have an Old computer with old software, by a former it specialist with old skills that knows just enough to be dangerous.

What could possibly go wrong.

we are still looking at the situation the wrong way. She says she entered the data into the computer incorrectly. her explanation be damned. she is known to be wrong. if she entered correctly, then she is wrong the second time and not the first. the ONLY way we would be happy is if she was right the first time but wrong the second time.

so what do we do? obviously the data on the computer cant be trusted. looking at the computer all we would find is wrong data and she admitted it.

What we do is count the data(submitted spreadsheets and other data) outside that computer. do we trust her? no. we trust democrats and others in the office to double check and triple check. this was allegedly done yesterday.

Fine lets count it again.


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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #98
119. you'd lose ONE record, tops. Not whole masses of data
Importing multiple records from an external source: a key violation might prevent the import from occurring, but would likely create as many blank tuplets as there were data records imported--and Access would create an error log. I won't bore you with more technical details, but markp is pretty much on the money--her story just doesn't wash, in my book.
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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #119
146. why would you need more than one record to lose?
all a record really needs is the total, total for P and total for K. that is it. 3 data points in a single record.


Now of course the *imported* spreadsheet might contain more than one line. how she imported is the question also.

did she copy and paste a line in? did her antiquated ACCESS program capable of always processing a properly imported spreadsheet,particularly a newer version?


Lots of questions of course. Frankly, i don't even SHE knows how she screwed up for sure.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. May I copy and paste, with citation, to other blogs?
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Sure. n/t
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thank you!
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R.
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RT Atlanta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. bump
thank you for sharing this insight
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. Good points
I have worked elections in Ohio since 2004 not only should a forensic analysis be done on
the I.T. end but there has to be hard evidence to back up each and every vote that is counted.
For every vote there should be a signature in a poll log (the book you sign your name before
you vote at your precinct) or an absentee / provisional ballot.

The Total # votes that County BOE Submits to the Sec. of State must equal the total # of
signatures in the precinct log books + the total # of absentee / provisional ballots cast.

And BTW these 14,000 votes that showed up is roughly equal to 20 precincts. Waukesha
County has 198 precincts so the Waukesha County BOE missed 10.1% of the total # of
precincts that turned in the vote on election day and some clerk just found those votes
the next day on her personal computer?

This whole thing so doesn't pass the smell test for a number of reasons not the
least of which BOEs have computers / compilers and those machines have the task
of receiving and counting the data which is inputted at the end of day after the
close of voting. So instead of using the machines that were made to count the vote
it was put into somebody's personal p.c.? Please!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Yes. I went into the Lucas County OH BOE in 2004 to examine/copy at data...
Someone needs to issue a secure a crime scene Oder to prevent any tampering of evidence. I believe Jennifer did this as SOS in Franklin Co after 2006.
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catgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. She's a computer expert

Her handling of the election was an obvious set up for manipulating the results. Computer experts
would have a secure and transparent system down. Her "goof" wouldn't happen with other computer
experts.

She really should be investigated for a criminal act. There should be freedom of information requests
made for her emails, etc., although they were probably permanently deleted.
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organicbiscuit Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
128. I'm with you on that. Occam's Razor. Besides, my antanna went
up right off the bat with her. What if, for example, she is "the one" who was pre-selected for "just in case". Turns out, this was just such a case. Either that, or else she is one incredibly stupidly guilty woman who, in her haste for explanations, dug herself a hole. If it turns out she is a pretty partisan or hold extremely fundamentalist views she might have cracked, and thinks she is doing "God's work". Pure speculation on my part, I'll be the first to admit. It will be interesting to see what transpires ongoing.
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truckin Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you for your insights and solid analysis. I totally agree
that this warrants a thorough investigation.
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'm also in IT, a programmer of large financial mainframe systems.
I've also worked some with Access, I'm not a big fan and I know in the corporate world and in IT it is extremely frowned upon in general. I agree with everything you have said regarding the save features etc.

I can tell you that if this were business data, particularly financial data, this business process and its lack of audit trail and transparency would never pass an independent audit.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
23. You know, I would be ok with losing if I could trust in the electoral process
But I have not trust whatsoever in our elections anymore.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
24. WI law requires a paper trail. From DU 5 years ago:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2021069

iconoclastNYC Wed Jan-04-06 04:58 PM

Original message

New Wisconsin Law Requires Open Source, Verifiable Voting

***
Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle today signed legislation that "will require the software of touch-screen voting machines used in elections to be open-source. Municipalities that use electronic voting machines are responsible for providing to the public, on request, the code used." Madison's Capital Times reports "the bill requires that if a municipality uses an electronic voting system that consists of a voting machine, the machine must generate a complete paper ballot showing all votes cast by each elector that is visually verifiable by the elector before he or she leaves the machine.""

ny voting machines to be used in the state already had to pass State Elections Board tests. Electronic voting machines, in particular, already were required to maintain their results tallies even if the power goes out, and to produce paper ballots that could be used in case of a recount. The new law also requires the paper ballots to be presented to voters for verification before being stored.

But perhaps more influential in the long term is the requirement that municipalities provide source code, and the more general condition that "the coding for the software that is used to operate the system on election day and to tally the votes cast is publicly accessible and may be used to independently verify the accuracy and reliability of the operating and tallying procedures to be employed at any election."

The bill passed the Assembly 91-4 and the Senate 29-2.
***

http://wistechnology.com/article.php?id=2585

slashdot discussion at : http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/01/04/2124236....
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. discussion link doesn't work -nt
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. Just tried it--the link to the old DU thread works for me. n/t
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Sorry - I meant the slashdot one
I'll try the DU one
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. You're right, it doesn't work in my post but does at the DU link. n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
134. K/R ---
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you for your insight - bookmarking -nt
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. A diary at dKos making the same points. I hope all this expertise can be put to use.
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 08:16 AM by enough
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/07/964645/-Kathy-Nickolaus-in-Waukesha-forgot-to-saveReally

snip from the link>

Here's the problem. Microsoft Access (any version) doesn't ask you to save. When you enter data into a table, it automatically updates the underlying database. If you close the database accidentally, the data you entered (or imported, in the case of Nickolaus) remains. If you stop to take a phone call from your buddy the governor (for example), your data will still automatically save.

For further proof, I asked my 8 year old daughter to try to enter data in my little Access voting system mock up, and not save it. She couldn't do it. She tried all sorts of things, and the votes still saved.

I entered 10,000 votes for Prosser, and closed the database. No save prompt appeared. I came back in, and there were the 10,000 votes! Thanks Bill Gates! I entered 20,000 votes for Prosser, and did a hard shutdown of my computer. When I booted back up and reopened the file, the 20,000 votes were there! Thanks again Bill Gates!

Bottom line: Nickolaus is clearly lying. Not only did she insist on having her own private system based on some of the most unsecure, pedestrian computing technology available (Seriously? Access and Excel controlling such an important part of our democracy?), but she apparently assumes that nobody else has ever used Microsoft Access.

more>
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nykym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
27. Great explanation, thanks
Have you thought of sharing this information with the Kloppenburg people? Every little bit helps to keep the republics in check.
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nessa Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
29. I thought the file was just a temporary file used to inform the media..
not the actual official voting data. From yesterday...

"The claim is that the City of Brookfield's #'s were not in the #'s given to media (mistakenly omitted from the Access database on her PC). Unofficial #'s. During certification, they caught it yesterday and contacted GAB. Since then, they've been counting and verifying - confirming the gain of 14,314 votes. My Democratic CD chair spoke to the Democratic rep who was overseeing".

The clerk didn't "find" the votes, she omitted them. The votes were "found" when they were certified.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x839828
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. She claims she imported the data but didn't save it.
I've never used Access, but if it is true that you don't have to save because of auto save feature, then how did she manage not to save the votes?
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Precisely.
The table into which the data is imported is updated upon import, requiring no further action to "save" the data on the part of the user.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. I am listening to the tape of her press conference as I type.
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 08:50 AM by LisaL
She claims she used Access, she imported the data, she also claims she must have hit "save" button many times, but somehow these thousands of votes didn't save.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
76. I think what's really happening behind the Access GUI is that an
'insert query' is being run using SQL. I suppose it would be possible to import a file like an Excel spreadsheet into an Access table using some sort of routine that did not execute the 'commit.' But the default value for Access, IIRC, is that the 'commit' segment of the SQL insert query is enabled. In other words, you have to go out of your way for your data import not to insert into the db table. It's been awhile since I used Access extensively, though, so I may be mis-remembering.

She's lying through her teeth. The U.S. Dept of Justice needs to land on her like a ton of bricks for potentially massive civil rights violations, i.e., depriving Wisconsinites of their franchise.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
101. Could she do that? More like the vender or a consultant.
I'm not saying she's not in on the deal.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. I've seen reports that she worked as an "IT Professional" or even
a computer programmer before becoming Clerk. I'm pretty much just a talented layperson when it comes to database design and operation so, if I know the score, I'm sure she could also.

The real question, imho, would be, why? You basically would have to decide to disable the 'commit' functionality of your data import routine and then actually disable it. But when you import data into a table, you have pretty much decided you do want to 'commit' (aka 'save') your work.

I really think her enignamtic phrasing raises more questions than it answers, which is why I think a U.S. Dept of Justice voting rights inquiry is merited. (Plus, the spectacle of watching Repuke twits sweat is one I would never pass up.)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
53. If Access saves a mistake, it's a MAJOR headache to fix it.
Since she doesn't seem like a whiz, I doubt her story.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
97. If she's claiming that, then according to two people with
expertise, the OP and one in another link above, she is either lying, or she did hit 'save' but that would not have affected the outcome anyhow.

If I'm wrong someone can correct me. But, from reading the OP this is my understanding:

1) She did not need to hit save.

2) Even if she did, it would not have affected anything, the data would be there regardless.

3) For her claim of 'losing' it to be correct, some other action had to be taken deliberately by someone with knowledge of programming.




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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R n/t
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
36. just had an Access class, and the "autosave" also means that
when you enter one record and the cursor goes to the next line, the data has been saved to the database and the hard drive. Period.

Plus, I constantly hear that Access databases are not secure enough for businesses, that's why businesses usually would prefer SQL Server instead ...

AND ... she had multiple people using the same Username/Password combination ...

Yep ... nice and secure.

(Ain't she a "public employee"???)
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. She doesn't even claim she didn't hit "save."
I've listened to her conference, she claimed she must have hit "save" button many times, but somehow these particular votes (which she imported using Access database) didn't save. Peculiar, to say the least.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #38
78. That's the heart of her lie. In Access, there is NO SAVE button. You
have to go out of your way for any insert query running behind the scenes not to 'commit' (the database equivalent of a 'save').

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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
39. She clearly manufactured this vote count, and should go to prison for voter fraud

What a load of garbage. "Finding" votes days after the end of the election? After the opponent has declared victory?

Bolder even that Bush's stealing of Florida.

And ironic that the toady right was crowing about voter fraud before this happened.

I guess they don't care so much about voter fraud today, do they.

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. With all due respect, it's ELECTION fraud.
Election fraud is the institutionalized corruption of election, as happened in Florida, Ohio, and now Wisconsin.

Voter fraud is individual, but the RW LOVES to muddy the terms for their own purposes. :hi:
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
67. but the RW LOVES to muddy the terms for their own purposes.
Hell yeah!

Just insert "Voter Registration Fraud" into that mix.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
102. Hmmmm
I read on another thread that the Coleman/Franken election comes to mind, many votes 'found' after the election was over.

If I remember correctly Coleman had a large lead which eventually evaporated and turned into a Franken win.
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R
:kick:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
41. The crooks believe we are as ignorant and naive as they are. I've had some Access
experience and you are quite correct about the autosave--which can actually be frustrating at times when you discover a mistake.

Suggestion: send what you have written here as a letter to the editor to every paper you can, including national ones. If they aren't exposed, they will continue to do this. It's important to make them uncomfortable with attempting to because there is no way we're going to be able to stop them if they keep succeeding.
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
44. who needs a password? boot into safe mode
:eyes:
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
70. You would still need the Admin password
One still has to log in, even in safe mode, with an Admin password. In addition, she may have put a password on the database itself.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #70
124. No you don't, just boot to any one of a number of Live Linux CDs
Knoppix, Puppy, Ubuntu. Any one of a number of Live Linux CDs would allow you to boot the Windows box. There are even some that would allow you to extract usernames and passwords from the system. They aren't encrypted very well.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
48. Because they put unqualified, but obedient, people in sensitive positions, Republicans around here
consciously rely upon "It's easier to say you're sorry, than it is to get permission."
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
50. It's so not even funny
Blatant, obvious fraud from an administration with zero respect for doing things legally.
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Xicano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
51. Now tell me we don't live in a banana republic?
Can you imagine if Cuba or Venezuela had an election where this same thing occurred? What would we hear the news saying about it?

I'm just saying...

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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
52. Assumptions are being made
based on current software versions. If she has an older computer and older software, then this is not necessarily the case.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. No assumptions, it is a simple, verifiable fact. It's in ALL
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 11:04 AM by blondeatlast
versions of Access.

In fact, it can often be a pain in the neck.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #52
75. It's the way Access worked in Windows NT.
Do you think her software is older than that?
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
99. Yeah! She's running Access 1.0 on Windows 3.1!
:spray::rofl:

Which then really brings its security into question!




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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
56. I am in the IT industry too and I completely agree with
markpkessinger.

My other big issue is why this is a partisen role? That in itself makes the role lose any credibility.

Let the investigations begin because if she cannot provide signatures for those votes....she is in big trouble. As usual Republicans don't think anything through.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. "why this is a partisen role?" because that is the best way to secure wins, remember this:
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 11:55 AM by mod mom
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. I remember that all too well.
:(
Same story, second verse (or third or fourth, etc)
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
106. Right in our faces...
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Because the republican party stacked the deck this way.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
58. Wouldn't be much of a db system if it just dropped everything
at a moments notice. She LIED and there is obvious fraud on her part...if for no other reason, then it cannot be proven she did NOT cheat.
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. Send this to the lawyers
Get this info to the lawyers ASAP!!!
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
66. And..there is ONE account on this computer. All of the employees
have the username and password, so it's virtually impossible to know which employee logged onto the machine at any given time.

Heard that on the Stephanie Miller show today.

Democracy is swinging by a thread and Windows 95 and MS Access are holding the ends. Scary.
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WheelWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
68. I hear you saying this is about as believable as Rose Mary Woods' 18.5 minute "gap"?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. Good analogy.
:thumbsup:
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mlevans Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
69. It's interesting that Ms. Nickolaus is herself described as an "IT specialist".
I would have thought that someone who is an "IT specialist" would know how MS-Access works. I use the program frequently for my job, and the notion that something was placed in a table and not "saved" struck me as ludicrous. I mean you add something and it's added, you change something and it's changed. There is a "Save Selected Items" option, but that's something else entirely. I have to agree with your second point too; seems to me that in her efforts to "secure the data" she actually made it less so. I'll be curious to see the results of this theoretical investigation; having watched her press conference I'd say the woman came across as exceptionally nervous, as though she was really trying to hide something. Not a good presentation at all, at all.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #69
86. Anyone that has ever used MS - Access knows she is lying.
If she gets away with this, then democracy is DEAD.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
71. +1
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
73. Just saw this on Twitter...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. OMG--I'm in tears!
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 02:47 PM by blondeatlast
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I am so spreading that!
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #73
91. OMG that damn thing deserves a DUzy!!!
:spray: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #73
105. Perfect help icon!
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KathieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #73
115. LOL!
:rofl:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
74. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, markpkessinger.
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
79. Wow Mark! What an amazing, accurate post. I'm glad you are on our side. K&R + 1million. Thank you
Lou
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
80. It's my belief they were shaving a percentage of votes to the republican all along
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 02:49 PM by JohnnyRingo
When it came down so close as to require a recount, they got desperate and quickly mustered up enough votes to put the results beyond that point. A recount would reveal the subtle fraud of padding the totals, so they had to do something to avoid that certain scrutiny lest they be discovered.

Now they have to play it by ear. If I'm correct in my belief, the state majority will do anything to avoid a hand count. There can be no other reason to fear a bipartisan recount if there really is a 7,000 vote lead.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #80
100. Well, then the investigation should be veeeeery interesting!
:popcorn:
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #80
116. +1. I'm thinking it's a skim-and-pad operation, or perhaps vote flipping.
It would take many flips per precinct at the tabulator level to change the outcome of this election.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
81. I hope you will contact Kloppenburg's people about this.
You make a very persuasive case.
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
84. Mark, is it possible for Koch billionaires, to buy IT experience such as yours to do the dirty work
and rig this vote?
Lou
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
85. K&R for excellent information!
And thank you!

:kick:
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Thav Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
87. Using Access to store things like this?
Access makes the baby Jesus cry bitter, bitter tears.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
88. +1000 - This veteran IT person agrees - Major red flags
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Red State Prisoner Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
92. I Agree
I've been doing the IT gig for longer than I care to share here, but an exported table is saved at the source, not in Access. Your example of an Excel spreadsheet is spot on. The clerks explanation is one of either utter ignorance or, worse yet, complete and total bullshit!
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
93. K&R
for the uninitiated.


:kick:
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Zax2me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
94. It smells, it smells bad...
REALLY bad!
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
95. The Koch brothers billions still at work.
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Chipster Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
96. Red Flags Rising
Thank you for your excellent explanation of the technical aspects. It's a powerful contribution supporting the need for a comprehensive, external investigation. At least on the surface, the outcomes are too beneficial to one party to be coincidental and not contrived.
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freshwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
104. Thanks for the input. Still the big question for me is the chain of custody of the votes...
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Nickolaus did not have access of the ballots, she only had the 'total' that Brookfield transmitted
See my other comment below.

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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
107. There is NOTHING fishy going on with the 14,000 Brookfield Wisconsin SC votes, here's why .......
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #107
136. Yep. This sounds like my freeptard co-workers that still bitch about the
Gregoire/Rossi governor race.

Which was bullshit too. Those were valid ballots. Period. If they wanted another recount, they could have paid for one.
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
109. One thing about Kathy Nickolaus' troubled history demonstrates,...
if granted immunity, she'll sing.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. Don't know if this means anything...
but was this county one of those who ran out of paper ballots in many precincts and had to either use photocopy ballots(which cannot be counted electronically)or use the voting machines?
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
111. If someone can figure this out here,,,someone can figure this out there...nt
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
113. the it issues are one thing and certainly need to be considered.
they may help to prove the case.

but what does wisconsin law say about what she did. it has to be illegal, right?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
117. Exactly. They are afraid of a recount---so give them one.
Edited on Fri Apr-08-11 07:33 PM by McCamy Taylor
They can switch votes but they can not create votes. I am betting that the number of people who signed in to vote will be smaller than the vote total reported in some GOP counties. That will be very easy to check.
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
120. If she stored sensitive, mission-critical data on a local drive...
...that only she could access, she needs to be fired YESTERDAY, if not sooner.

Being a semi-professional Access developer myself, I can vouch for the accuracy of what you're saying here. Ninety-nine percent of the population do not have the expertise to manipulate a database to pull off a "mistake" like this.

Like we've said of the bush/cheney clique: Investigate--Indict--Incarcerate!
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
121. Thanks for that. My hair was on fire last night, and I commented on this in quite the rage.
Had I sat down, and given it more thought, I would have come up with a similar response as your's.
Yes, I do have more than 20 years experience of supporting more than 2000 people.

Thanks again.

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
122. Hi, Mark. I was wondering if you could please answer this question for me.
(I am profoundly technically challenged, so this may be a really dumb question)

Is it possible to clone, and/or distribute votes tallied on a computer?

Could a county clerk say, in Waukesha County, send some votes for the candidate she wanted to win to another county clerk's system in Marathon County? And then some to another county clerks system in Crawford County, and some to a county clerks system in Menominee County? And so on, until she had distributed a significant enough number of votes to other counties and thereby insured a win for her candidate?

Then the county clerk posts the votes for her own county a little late, and for a missing vote total for a precinct in her county the next day?

Would this be possible without the county clerks in the other counties knowing?

Or, could/would the other county clerks have to open their systems to receive the votes from Waukesha?

I was just wondering if this, or something similar to this, was a possible way to commit voter fraud.

Thanks!
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Marnie Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
123. Could it be possible that she insisted on an
old program so that she could be networked with some one online who functioned as an administrator who could manipulate data in her computer? So that it looked likeher work under her log in but really wasn't
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
125. She's an elected official. Can SHE be recalled?
If for nothing else, sheer incompetence.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Not in Waukesha County. It's republican hell. She's probably a local hero now. nt
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
127. Any why was she "saving" anything?
The "saving" should have stopped once the polls had closed.

From then on, it should have been "copying" only.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
129. "wholly inappropriate containers"
WORD!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
130. 2012 election should be interesting...
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. No holds barred and CorpAmerica will challenge us wimpy Democrats to the death. nm
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
131. taken some MCSE prerequesits (sp)
and one thing they hammered home was it was auto save. I think somewhere she coded something wrong in Excel or someone did it for her and was forcing her to say whatever. because clearly she was on the verge of a breakdown. Not saying this is a women's only think. Frankly I think Scot Walker and his hippo have had a mental breakdown.. Like hellow Martin Sheen. Wanna hit that button??
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
132. The problem is that historically Democrats have shown to be cowards when it comes to
to fighting for our rights. Al Gore and Kerry are a disgrace to free Americans.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. Seems to be more than being cowards --
Unfortunately, corporate money has corrupted most of government --

Keep in mind how interested voters are in these questionable results -- and computer voting.

Yes, the Democrats basically ignore the issue though they are on the losing end over and again.


Thom Hartmann also said that in discussing this with an elected Democrat, he told him that

the whole issue of computer voting is "taboo" and not to be discussed . . .

because they don't want Democratic voters to get the idea that our elections aren't honest --

they may stop coming out to vote!




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !!

:)





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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #135
144. I was being flip with my cowards comment. Of course they are not cowards. Worse
they are corrupt bastards. There are two sides to this war to take back our Democracy and it aint Democrat vs. Republican. Almost all members of Congress are members of the Ruling Class. How can we expect them to represent us.

"Thom Hartmann also said that in discussing this with an elected Democrat, he told him that

the whole issue of computer voting is "taboo" and not to be discussed . . .because they don't want Democratic voters to get the idea that our elections aren't honest -- they may stop coming out to vote!"

This highlights the fact that keeping us voting is more important than having honest results. They want us to keep playing the game.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. Very well put -- indeed -- !!!
This highlights the fact that keeping us voting is more important than having honest results. They want us to keep playing the game

:)
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
137. +++
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
139. I wonder if the Koch Bros have her bank account numbers.
Fraud this big usually isn't done without a payoff, I bet.
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TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
142. The clerk is a conservanazi stoolie.
Based on your assessment of the incident and actions take by this imcompetent toadie, I believe she has done something possibly illegal and an investigation needs to be started.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
145. There will be a hand recount and every ballot will be looked at by a human being.
In addition, there is a full investigation.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #145
148. Any way they can create ballots?
or recreate them from another area?
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #148
149. Complete with the numbering system that matches rolls and initials of BOTH officials who oversaw
in those wards??

Pretty wild theory.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-09-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. It was a question, not a theory -- !!! However, signatures have been falsified on
Edited on Sat Apr-09-11 03:37 PM by defendandprotect
on election documents throughout history -- !!

However, glad to hear that there is strong confidence in this system!!



See: Votescam -- The Stealing of America

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm
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