On those "newly found" votes in Wisconsin

[Botany]

I have worked elections in Ohio since 2004 not only should a forensic analysis be done on
the I.T. end about these "newly found votes" but there should be hard evidence to back up
each and every vote that is counted. For every vote there should be a signature in a poll log
(the book you sign your name in before you vote at your precinct) or an absentee / provisional
ballot.

The Total # votes that County BOE Submits to the Sec. of State must equal the total # of
signatures in the precinct log books + the total # of absentee / provisional ballots cast.

And BTW these 14,000 votes that showed up is roughly equal to 20 precincts. Waukesha
County has 198 precincts so the Waukesha County BOE missed 10.1% of the total # of
precincts that turned in the vote on election day and somebody just found those votes
the next day on her personal computer?

This whole thing so doesn't pass the smell test for a number of reasons not the
least of which BOEs have computers / compilers and those machines have the task
of receiving and counting the data which is inputted at the end of day after the
close of voting. So instead of using the machines that were made to count the vote
that data was put into somebody's personal p.c. because they thought it was more
secure there?

[shraby]

1. Here in Wisconsin we don't have to sign in to vote. We are

asked out name, found on the list of people in the precinct, asked to verify the address, then the name is crossed off by a person sitting in the next seat, given a number on a piece of paper. We give the paper to the next person in line, the number is put on a spindle then the next person in the row of seats hands us a ballot with two sets of initials on it. Then we take it to vote on.

[MineralMan]

5. Thanks for that information.

It's good to hear actual facts from someone there.

[Scuba]

6. We have to sign in at my Polling Place here in Wisconsin. n/t

[shraby]

12. I have never signed in and I've been voting here for a long

time. My name is crossed off a book after being verified in the voter registration book.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. So, they could go through every voter on the list in the book, find Republicans ONLY and cross off

all the names they need to meet the number of votes they just happened to "find?" How could those crossed off names ever be verified to be actual people who DID show up to vote?

[gkhouston]

7. ...

:wow:

So basically, the ballot box could be "enhanced" by adding ballots for people who hadn't voted, and all you'd have to do is cross out a name on the address list and tear off a sequence number?

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. It shouldn't be quite that easy - that's the purpose of the several

persons process. The "two initials" are poll workers from opposing parties, each verifying that the vote is legit. The total numbers would be reported with all present, so neither side should have the opportunity to cook the books.

OTOH, if the opposing sides were in collusion, all bets are off and it could be done just that way, it seems to me.

[gkhouston]

34. It assumes no collusion, and that the opposing parties follow through just

before/after the votes are certified to see that the totals match what they got on election night. I'm wondering how many people actually do that. And if the absentees and/or provisionals are handled at the city or county clerk level instead of at the precinct level, it could be even easier to manipulate the vote in a close election.

[Viking12]

17. There's actually 2 lists, with 2 people verifying

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. 2 people verifying ...1 Democrat and 1 Republican? Or 2 Republicans? n/t

[Viking12]

25. To be honest, I'm not sure.

At my precinct, it always the same two sweet old ladies so I very confident that no funny business is happening here.

[jsamuel]

36. I've had a sweet old lady tell my wife she wasn't allowed to vote without an ID, when there is no

such requirement in my state.

[Little Star]

49. yep.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Nonetheless, that system does provide a head count for every person

who walks in that door, no less than a signature log would. There should be no way to game it that there are more votes cast than names crossed off the list. That provides a baseline.

The screwy thing here is the info being input to a work PC rather than a dedicated computed for tabulation. That part I just don't get.

[Jackpine Radical]

46. What would keep them from just crossing more names off the list

after the election? I bet both logs re turned in to the County Clerk.

And I'm very familiar with the system Shraby describes--it's the same where I vote.

[Tippy]

15. Who are the people who do the initaling....

here we are supose to have one from eaach party....but since Republicans won conrol in TN very few Dems sit on the polls....

[southernyankeebelle]

21. We are asked are name, for ID, they look your name up on list then

they give to a sheet a paper you sign it and then they direct you to a person where they take the sheet and you go and vote. Here in TN

[socialist_n_TN]

29. Here in Nashville, we also sign in.........

and they compare signatures with what's on your voter registration card.

[FourScore]

31. Odd. n/t

[robinlynne]

39. Then they will need to conact each voter crossed off nd ask the voter if he/she voted.

AND check thos e initials. There are many more tricks than the screaming obvious ones.

[Little Star]

48. I think that's what most people consider signing in......

That or something very similar is the way most places that have optical scanners do it.

[gkhouston]

2. +1. Let's see what happens when someone wants to see the pollbooks.

If there's all sorts of stalling and squalling, we'll know there's more than incompetence at work here.

[rainy]

3. What if those votes were added somewhere else, now, they

Want to count them twice, then they will have the acurate signatures and we would never know.

[PeaceNikki]

4. Then we will find it.

We're investigating. The GAB is on this, Kloppenburg is on this, the Democratic Party is on this. If there's fraud, we'll find it - but right now we can't say that.

[Zanzoobar]

8. You need to start a thread with an inflammatory title

Judging by the numerous threads, your point is not getting across.

It needs to be explained very clearly what the problem is.

[Zanzoobar]

9. I see you already have, Sorry!

[midnight]

10. PeaceNikki do you attend the Waukesha County Dems meetings?

If so who is this Vice Chair?

[PeaceNikki]

11. Ramona Kitzinger is the vice chair.

[Dan]

19. Access database

Any half-ass programmer can update information on that database without even trying.

[PeaceNikki]

20. As was stated elsewhere on DU: If this asshole wanted to throw the election to Prosser,

this is about the stupidest way she could have done it. Anyone with access to city vote totals and a calculator would discover it in 5 minutes once the error was announced.

Access database aside, count the totals, fer christ's sake.

[fasttense]

47. Oh, I don't know I can think of several other much more stupid ways.

Suppose she increased the amount but not enough to stop the state-funded recount. Then they might have caught her.

Suppose she found the numbers after the state-funded recount had already started. Then they might have caught her.

Suppose her supposedly Democratic observer had not agreed to her plan. Then they might have caught her.

Suppose the RepubliCON county she was rigging had not agreed with her plan. Then they might have caught her.

Suppose Prosser were honest. Then they might have caught her.

Seems to me she has/had a very good plan. But that's what 13 years experience in RepubliCON voter data manipulation does for you.

[Blue Meany]

13. My guess is that if there is fraud it is not in Waukesha

but somewhere else. These may be diversion to keep people focused away from where the real ballot stuffing took place.

[janet118]

24. I remember some weirdness in Dane County on election night . . .

The precinct numbers jumped up 10+ with no change in vote. It was running about 7 to 3 for Kloppenburg.

I think you may be on to something. "Hey, look over here!!!!"

[eowyn_of_rohan]

32. Skim the Blue, Pad the Red

That has often been their M.O. I didn't see that glitch for Dane County... Glad you did.

[Enthusiast]

41. I like the way you think.

I fear you are correct.

[Lochloosa]

18. Did I hear you on a call in show this morning?

Someone called in, I think it was Bill Press, and said the same thing.

[PATRICK]

26. Digital Daley(Chicago Software)

Every single aspect of those goshdurn newfangled electronic devices are used. Glitches. Oops, missed that key. Power failure. Man in the middle by wire fraud. Software back doors. Deliberate complexity, old fraud opportunities added to and multiplied by virtual software and hardware and interface mazes.

Electronic voting is as inherently dangerous as a nuclear reactor but sometimes they just take the machine off its table and beat you over the head with it.

From the day it was revealed that two financial fraud convicts were VPs of ES&S it was easy to look for the principles of the successful con. Double books, fog, errors masking other errors to look unintentional and realities irretrievable. Most of- so the perps don't ever go to jail- the people so elected make sure there is no accountability. A perfect crime that can't/won't be prosecuted easily if ever.

[PeaceNikki]

27. uh, we vote on paper. It's the law here.

[PATRICK]

28. I meant the secretary's use

of office and personal computer for recording the vote. Wherever it seems the machines are employed the same old excuses, unlikely as they are, are brought forward. I am sure it would have been a lot easier without the paper, but this MAY have been a reserve tactic to cap an election once all the the rest had been presented.

As to the actual vote, this may not in any interpretation be necessarily a false count. I was trying to assume the worst.

Daley used to hold back the ballot counts deliberately on election eve. Interpretations of what was going on seem to be easy and in fact accepted as dishonest in multiple ways.

[PeaceNikki]

30. Yes, but that's very easily confirmed and was caught WHILE certification was happening.

The accusations that she would have been "cheating" by dumping a huge lead for her side is weird.

There are investigations, a recount will happen and we have paper trails.

[tomp]

44. Wow, paper and pen, counted by hand? nt

[IDemo]

33. Is there a rule/law/regulation anywhere about the use of personal PC's?

It seems just a wee bit outrageous that this in itself would not constitute an egregious crime.

[gkhouston]

37. I don't believe it's her personal computer, i.e., the clerk's personal property.

It's a PC that is her personal work computer, i.e., the state paid for it and it sits on her desk and is "hers" in that sense. Some of the news accounts have been muddled on this point. My impression is that other officials aren't happy about the situation because it's not at all clear that she's been doing backup, maintenance, etc. and the software is not what other county clerks are using.

[IDemo]

43. Even if it was only her workstation, it couldn't possibly be acceptable

Most election law is quite specific about the identification of voting and tabulating machines and of securing them from just this type of thing. She was basically treating votes as if they were an office potluck signup sheet.

[Dawson Leery]

35. These computers as well as the paper ballots (where they exist) must be impounded!

[robinlynne]

38. Having a ballot is not enough. Signatures really need to be checked, especially

if absentee ballots are in the bundle.

[rhett o rick]

40. It doesnt matter if the normally spineless Democrats dont fight for our rights.

I remember Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. Major voter fraud and the Democrats bowed out. I have no respect for Al Gore and John Kerry.

[Enthusiast]

42. Those elections results should have

challenged in every possible way. You are right.

[rhett o rick]

50. We Democrats are like a battered spouse. They (Republicans) wont hurt us again.

They wont keep stealing elections. They wont use The Patriot Act to spy on us. They wont use their unlimited wealth to subjugate us.

The problem always comes down to the fact that this isnt a Republican vs. Democrat war, its a Wealthy Class vs. the lower classes war. And those "Democrats" that conceded to power, are not members of our class.

[tomp]

45. don't forget lieberman, he had a hand in florida too. nt