What do MI, OH, IN, IL, WI, NY have in common

[erinlough]

that a bunch of very rich people would want. I don't think it is our strong voting base, which last election went crazy. I don't think it is our strong and vital cities, which are dead. Do they want the fresh water of the Great Lakes? And, what do they plan to do about the Canadians? Water is said to be the new oil around the world, could this be their ultimate aim? When I follow the money that is where it takes me. Am I wrong?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

1. Whoa.

You may be on to something... God help us.

[Voice for Peace]

11. +1 nt

[Skip_In_Boulder]

2. Well there was that one deal where some corporation

went into one of the South American countries, Chile I think, and bought, or should I say strong armed, up all the water rights so they could double the price of water. As I recall, that was the straw that broke the camels back for the people.

[rabs]

9. That was Bechtel in Bolivia

Its subsidiary Aguas del Tunari bought ($200 million paid to Banzer government) control of the municipal water system of the city of Cochabamba, raised the rates to levels (double and more) the people could not pay, and even placed a tax on RAIN WATER collection.

Needless to say, the people revolted, Bechtel left with its tail between legs. The poor people of Cochabamba had humiliated the global giant (once connected to Dick Cheney, if I recall correctly).

---------------
Also the bushista family a few years ago tried to buy (or maybe did buy) about 100,000 acres of land in Paraguay.

What is under that land? The Guarani Aquifer, considered to be the largest fresh-water reserve in the world.

As OP observes, "WATER WARS" are looming in the future.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. The bush purchase was widely rumored, but never confirmed.

The story first surfaced in 2006. An internet search will only turn up fringe and conspiracy sites who report it as fact. The only news agency even close to reputable is one out of Cuba. The Guardian reported it, too, but only as a reporting of then-current rumors and speculation.

[rabs]

17. I too could not check veracity of the reports

Recall that it was an Argentine publication that broke the story. It was bush 41 who was mentioned as having bought the vast tract. In the Spanish language media in Argentina and Paraguay, it was called the "Bush Hacienda" and the "Bush Rancho."

Also, the U.S. military was constructing a base at Estigarribia in Paraguay. But that is another subject that had been difficult to pinpoint.

[Change Happens]

3. All are real cold places?

[northoftheborder]

4. good thinking

[Dawson Leery]

5. Very possible.

[lunatica]

6. You're right. Here's a map

[Bozita]

7. The WORLD's largest supply of FRESH water. And all of those states in a budget CRISIS.

International treaty with Canada?

Ask Native Americans about international treaties with us.

[saras]

8. Class war, indeed

[Stinky The Clown]

10. A little tin foily . . . . .

. . . but not the least bit absurd.

[erinlough]

14. That's what I felt

so I asked. When I think of the Emergency Manager bill that Snyder passes and ask myself what he could want with a bunch of broke cities and towns I can't imagine anything other than access to the great lakes. I mean it allows him to appoint a corporate manager and assume control of all the lands and parks and property that municipality has. Want a new Nuclear Plant permit???? You got it. Want access to the Great Lakes? You got it. That is where my thinking was going. Something else is that he has cut funds to the counties by 46% in his proposed budget so he is probably closer than we think.

I do think my process is a bit too simplistic, just wanted some opinions. Thanks for your good sense.

[jwirr]

12. There are other states bordering the lakes. I live 50 miles form Lake

Superior. Last I heard most of our states and Canada have joined forces to make sure that does not happen. Hopefully we will stay united.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Those treaties date back to a long-lost time of responsible elected governments.

[jwirr]

16. That is true - now we have politicians like Walker selling all the

assets of the state.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. Some years ago Perrier tried to set up a bottling plant in WI.

It was driven out by irate residents who didn't want to see their water table sucked dry.

I hope to God these states have the courage to do it again, on a much larger scale. There has been talk of a water pipeline from the Great Lakes to more arid parts of the country. Scary shit.

[starroute]

19. Could be water, but a lot of it is just power

I won't argue with you that the Great Lakes are a target -- but I don't think it's the chief motivation. It's more about controlling the chessboard.

At this point, New England and the West Coast are solidly blue. The South and mountain states are solidly red. That leaves the rust belt as the most heavily populated area of swing states.

Those old industrial states have a strong labor tradition, but a lot of the workers have been voting GOP since the Reagan era. So if you think like a Republican, it's obviously a Democratic stronghold that has to be conquered -- and the best way to do that is to destroy the unions and leave the workers as helpless pawns of the corporations.

I thank that strategy is fatally flawed. It comes out of the Southern right-to-work states, which were originally settled by aristocratic landowners and indentured servants and have a strong tradition of subservience to authority. But most of the rust belt was settled by New Englanders -- originally religious dissidents with a deep attachment to self-government -- and trying to reduce them to servitude is just going to get them angry.

Won't stop the GOP from trying, though.

[Dawson Leery]

23. kick

[themadstork]

26. I too think this is the general idea.

They're trying to decimate what was not that long ago a labor stronghold. For whatever reason they've abandoned the slow-and-steady approach of slowly chipping away at labor rights and have pretty much declared outright war. They've probably overestimated their power. They're making just enough noise to wake the sleeping giant, and soon I think they'll wish they hadn't resorted to such overt tactics. The media will help them as much as they can, but there comes a point where you can't ignore mass protests like WI.

[midnight armadillo]

20. A pipeline to Las Vegas!

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/SUPPESBJ/
The Great Lakes Basin is vast source of water, containing 20% of the world's surface freshwater, and 95% of U.S. surface freshwater. Pipelines have been discussed and proposed to share the water from this massive watershed to both nearby cities and suburbs, and also extending thousands of miles west and southwest. In the 1980's, there were proposals to pipe Great Lakes water to the southwest, but were dismissed due to the costliness, difficult logistics, and strong objections from Great Lake states. As water continues to be overused and depleted in the western and southwestern states through agricultural, industrial, and domestic uses, potential pipeline proposals are not out of the question. The lakes contain enough water to supply millions of people with water.


http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/03/water_is_the_great_lakes_areas.html
Some are worried that the South might soon take matters into its own hands by petitioning the federal government for help.
"I think a large-scale diversion of water from the Great Lakes is fairly likely sooner than later," said Noah Hall, an environmental law professor with Wayne State University in Michigan. "There are a lot of frightening developments out West and in the Southeast and the climate change models don't offer much hope."
David Naftzger, executive director of the Council of Great Lakes Governors, said a water grab is virtually assured.
"Look at a map showing water shortages and population growth and see how they match up," he said. "Now look at us and you can see a concern that, as time moves on, those areas will be looking at the Great Lakes to bring them water -- either through a tanker, pipeline or natural channels."

The Great Lakes Compact prevents pipelines from being built but bottling plants could still be constructed to ship out water in 12 oz bottles. Anyone know more about that Compact - could a state pull out of it?

[riderinthestorm]

21. I would stipulate that Libya's conflict is over water control.

from this article:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MC30Ak01.html


"The water privatizers
Few in the West may know that Libya - along with Egypt - sits over the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer; that is, an ocean of extremely valuable fresh water. So yes, this "now you see it, now you don't" war is a crucial water war. Control of the aquifer is priceless - as in "rescuing" valuable natural resources from the "savages".

This Water Pipelineistan - buried underground deep in the desert along 4,000 km - is the Great Man-Made River Project (GMMRP), which Gaddafi built for $25 billion without borrowing a single cent from the IMF or the World Bank (what a bad example for the developing world). The GMMRP supplies Tripoli, Benghazi and the whole Libyan coastline. The amount of water is estimated by scientists to be the equivalent to 200 years of water flowing down the Nile.

Compare this to the so-called three sisters - Veolia (formerly Vivendi), Suez Ondeo (formerly Generale des Eaux) and Saur - the French companies that control over 40% of the global water market. All eyes must imperatively focus on whether these pipelines are bombed. An extremely possible scenario is that if they are, juicy "reconstruction" contracts will benefit France. That will be the final step to privatize all this - for the moment free - water. From shock doctrine to water doctrine. "

[erinlough]

22. Amazing info. Thanks nt

[starroute]

25. That could explain why Chavez had supported Gaddafi

Chavez has a keen eye for resource control issue, and if Gaddafi has been keeping the neoliberal privatizers at bay, that could be enough to give him favorable standing. It's just a damn shame when the leaders who stand up to the West are also creepy oppressive dictators.

[jberryhill]

24. They make an anagram for "Whiny mini oil"?

[felix_numinous]

27. Nice thinking,

if you are thinking 'ruthless' you are thinking like the RW elite. The old tinfoil is the new normal, unfortunately.

[QED]

28. Sounds like the plot of a Clive Cussler novel.

Not that it isn't true, of course. Cussler could spin quite a story out of this

[Politicalboi]

29. Could be

Sounds like something that could happen. Living in Ca, I've often wondered why we don't have a national pipeline that channels flood waters and brings it to areas that need it instead of having towns 6 feet under water.

[AdHocSolver]

30. Excellent post. This issue is not discussed enough.

IIRC Enron was involved in some kind of "water" shenanigans as well. Kick!

[joeunderdog]

31. Time to invade Alberta.

We are, after all, Amurkins and we need to kill Bogey Men.