I don't think I can call myself a Democrat any longer

[EvolveOrConvolve]

I'm now a Socialist, and I'm going to start referring to myself that way. The Republicans already call me that anyway.

The Democratic party has abandoned us for their corporate masters.

[Zax2me]

1. Don't let them label you.

For gosh sakes, I don't trust them to flush the toilet when they are done.
Who are they to say who you are?!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

74. I thought long and hard about your response

Because really, I'm finally taking control of what I believe and labeling MYSELF with what I feel is appropriate.

[socialist_n_TN]

108. Welcome to the club comrade.........

:rofl: We're small, but growing hourly! :)

Seriously, it IS the MOST democratic economic system there is.

[Javaman]

166. The water is fine, come on in. :)

I have thrown my hat in with the socialists for the past year. :)

[tavalon]

187. Welcome aboard

We're a sharing lot in here. Each according to their ability and to each according to their need. It's a good system. Certainly better than the robber baron system in place now.

[Xenotime]

201. BINGO!

[Xenotime]

217. SocialistUnderground or SU?

Just suggesting.

[franzia99]

141. True

[Drale]

2. Well the only recourse you have if you don't like the people who are running

is run for office yourself.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

26. There's always more than just one course of action for recourse.

That's the problem with political parties. They think in stick binary terms.

[humanityisfree]

151. it seems this is the course

that Obama has decided to take...He is completely working within the system that he pledged to dismantle. His 3 dimensional - chess game is looking more and more like checkers every day. I still think he is a very intelligent and principled individual, but the choices he is making are really not in the best interest of the poor and middle class and it is becoming more and more evident that our country, politically, has moved further to the right in the last 3 years

[Search4Justice]

155. You've said a mouthful there. I couldn't agree more. n/t

[LWolf]

179. +1

[Thunderstruck]

29. Good advice. I'm sure any one of us would benefit from the Citizen's United SCOTUS decision...

Where's my check. I'll file tomorrow.

[fredamae]

33. BINGO!

At the very Least, you get a platform where you can expose the lies of your opponent!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

63. Don't think that I haven't pondered that idea

But under what political umbrella? Both are controlled by corporate money, and I'm not willing to bow down to that master.

[Drale]

85. Its not the party thats controlled but the people

[EvolveOrConvolve]

91. And those controlled people vote

And when corporate money infects a political race, the process is no longer about promoting an exchange of ideas, it's about installing backdoor fascism.

[oldhippydude]

147. back door?

id say its pretty much openly... we are just as afraid to call them what they are..

[MattSh]

138. They might let a Socialist...

win an election as dog-catcher, but if you think THEY will let a socialist win a position with any real power, except for a token or two for diversity's sake, you are sorely mistaken.

[tavalon]

188. Good thing Bernie Sanders snuck in, eh?

[jwirr]

198. Bernie has been in a long time. Times have changed. Today if

we ran as a socialist it would automatically be reported that we are communists - just ask the teabaggers and the MSM. Ignorance is a corporate tool.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

206. Do you have a few million dollars to spare?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

4. you should read the rules again. here -- i'll help you

'2. Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.'

see the other progressives part.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

9. so you're not a Democrat either, huh? not surprising.

you need to reread the line about supporting Democrats for public office.

[Fuddnik]

28. I'm a Marxist-Lennonist.

I follow the teachings of Groucho Marx and John Lennon.

[Jefferson23]

57. LOL, very good!

:thumbsup:

[JackInGreen]

136. That's priceless,

and stolen, if you don't mind.

[DFW]

156. Too late. It was already stolen

The first album of the progressive comedy group, the Firesign Theater ("How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not Anywhere At All?") had the Marx/Lennon duo on their cover--in 1969!

[Fuddnik]

221. Yep, that's where I got it. Showing my age.

Just an old Yippee.

[DFW]

223. Hey, I remember it from when it first came out

So where does that leave me agewise?

[liberation]

142. ROTFL

Salutations comrade walrus!

:rofl:

[jwirr]

200. LOL finally we get to the real truth about DU.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

139. "Pretty cheeky"? DUers participate as equals.

We don't give extra credit for being here for years.

[ZombieHorde]

144. You are the label police. That is pretty funny.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

-Kim Jong-il jr.

[BOG PERSON]

47. modern socialists aren't progressive

they don't have a teleological, or linear, view of history, but rather, a dialectical, or internally contradictory one.

[tavalon]

71. Unless you're one of those "modern socialists" and this is your personal philosophy,

I would request that you refrain from deciding whether any or all of the socialists on this board are progressive. Come to think of it, even if you are a socialist - just define yourself, please.

I'm so damned progressive, my party left me. Well, actually, they swung right and I didn't.

[liberation]

143. Projection being what it is...

... me thinks we just found out more about you, than what those pesky "modern socialist" supposedly are.


At least you guys are not calling them "reds" or "subversives" so that is a step forward, a baby one but positive none the less. I guess I am one of those half full kind of people.

LOL

[Jackpine Radical]

6. A lot of socialists take refuge in the Democratic Party.

"Socialist" is an awfully broad term, anyway." I call myself a socialist, but we have no Papal authority so each of us pretty much has to work out our own catechism.

[white_wolf]

20. "so each of us pretty much has to work out our own catechism"

That's the truth,and a source of a lot of division among socialists from the democratic reform oriented variety to the more militant communist types. As a trotskyist, I can say even within various "sects" there are divisions. There are more Trtoskyist parties in the U.S. than I can count and none of them seem to like the other, the only thing uniting them is their utter hatred of Stalinists and Maoists.

[BOG PERSON]

48. re: catechism

i have good news for you! you don't have to struggle alone. marx, engels, lenin, stalin and mao already figured out everything there is to figure out between the years 1844-1966, and their work is in the public domain. also their spirit is in our hearts.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. They made a very interesting start.

The world has moved beyond the understandings of human behavior prevalent in the 19th century (and still prevalent among many conservative economists).

The book is not closed. It is not even fully written.

[BOG PERSON]

53. i don't know what anybody gains

by understanding human behavior; it's advisable to understand history instead, imo, thereby placing behavior in its proper context

[white_wolf]

99. I didn't' say they figured everything out and for the record

I despise Stalin and Mao. I consider myself a Trotskyist, though an unorthodox one.

[socialist_n_TN]

109. Ain't that the truth.........

That's the reason I was careful to use the small "s" in my username. Because it implied that I wasn't a member of any particular socialist party.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[originalpckelly]

10. I joked about creating an Herbal Tea Party.

But I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't needed.

[marsis]

14. yup

Seriously, could they possibly do any worse?

[Jackpine Radical]

25. We could call ourselves the Knights of Chamomile.

No teabags; the Thimble is our Symbol.


Maybe we could wear funny helmets that look like this:

[Voice for Peace]

186. hahaha that's an excellent suggestion

cheered me after my traumatic jump to conclusions this morning, when I couldn't see the eaglets and thought 20 volcanoes were about to erupt in Japan.

[jwirr]

203. The thimble - definitely a symbol of work - associated with women

who rocked the cradle and kept the home fires burning. I like it. But then I am a woman.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Do you include Catholics, Vegetarians, and Musicians.in that edict?

I'm none of those but I know some of each who dare to call themselves Democrats. Not to mentions Marxists, Socialists, moderates, liberals, and Anarchists.

[Cameron27]

31. Well said...

:thumbsup:

[Thunderstruck]

30. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN YOU CAN LEAVE !!!!111!!11 SERIES1!!!1

[Ignis]

34. Welcome to DU. Perhaps you should read the rules?

At least before you use them (incorrectly) as a club to silence dissent.

[Dappleganger]

35. No.

But thanks for playing.

[tavalon]

44. Does it make you ner ous that many of us have chosen a different team?

Sure Socialism is the big bad Wolfe to the riightwing but it is a very valid political platform.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

55. not one bit. you can throw your vote away if you like. it is your right.

[tavalon]

Wow, way to add things to what I said.

I am a socialist. I learned that on this board and by watching my lifelong party throw so many of us under the bus. However, in the national contest (President) I will vote for the incumbent as doing anything else at this junction would be stupid. When one is a socialist in a pretend democratic republic that is quickly going fascist corporate, it behooves all of us to encourage them to keep the pretense up for a while. It gives us time to figure out what will need to be done and how it can be done.

Wrap your jedi mind around that, padwan.

[TBF]

92. +1 nt

[EvolveOrConvolve]

68. I'm glad that it makes some Democrats nervous

Question: what are the best Socialist party organizations? I've done some basic research but I'm more confused than ever and don't even know where to start.

[tavalon]

76. Can't really help with that

I've only recently realized that my values and those of the DC Beltway "third way" Democrats are wildly divergent. Since our household has been practicing socialism successfully for the last couple of years, I looked around at various sites and saw that my views more closely aligned with theirs. But I haven't joined a formal group and since I learned everything I know about politics at the knee of Democratic Underground, I still have great loyalty to this place, mildly amusing since I never would have figured out I was a socialist without Democratic Underground.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

80. You wanna know something even more amusing?

I considered myself a Republican until the Bush/Gore fiasco, and finding/reading DU helped me find my true self, which ultimately has led to me labeling myself as a Socialist.

Ironic, ain't it? :)

[tavalon]

130. Yep

You traveled further than I did, but we ended up in similar places. When people accuse Obama of being a socialist, I think "I wish!".

[oldhippydude]

148. well i see the boise state bronco.

i left the state 30 years ago.. its nice to see someone that can type from Idaho... most have bruised knuckles from dragging.. welcome!!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

224. I bleed blue and orange!

Unfortunately you're right, there are a lot of knuckledraggers here in Idaho. Luckily I live in a small enclave of sanity.

[TBF]

180. About republicans -

I always thought I was a dem because they supported labor (work with me, I grew up in the 70's, my dad was union). Now I look at it and realize the labels mean absolutely nothing.

There is capital (the owners - the ones who have the wealth), and there are the workers (the rest of us).

You can be a Trot, a Stalinist, a Socialist, an Anarchist, a Democrat, a Moderate, a Republican, a Crazy Religious Wacko, a Libertarian and who knows how many other labels.

What it comes down to though is whether you are on the side of Capital or Workers. If you don't know you will certainly find out soon, as the pie gets ever larger for the wealthy and grossly smaller for the workers.

On this particular website more workers seem to post in GD, while Capital posts in GDP - so I avoid GDP.

[white_wolf]

86. There are a lot of socialist organizations.,

I am looking at a few right now. There is the Socialist Party USA, which claims descent from Norman Thomas and Eugene Debbs, There is Socialist Organizer which is the U.S. branch of the 4th International, a Trotksyist group, there is also the Party For Socialism and Liberation, which the John Birch society called "the most active communist party in America today." There are a lot more as well, those are just the ones I'm looking into, if I can be of any help just PM me.

[socialist_n_TN]

114. Read some Leon Trotsky. As wolf has said..........

There are a LOT of Trotskyist groupings around and a lot of them don't like each other, much less the Stalinists and Maoists. So the best thing to do is go back to the source. Start with "My Life" the autobiography of Leon Trotsky. He was one of the big two of the Bolshevik October Revolution in Russia in 1917 along with V.I. Lenin. He was very European in his outlook, so he's a little more approachable than a lot of the other Bolshies. Of course, it never hurts to read Marx and Engels.

Start there with some of the more radical/revolutionary socialist groups and then move into some of the more moderate European models.

But as I said, go back to the source material and then decide where you're closer to in viewpoint to figure out what kind of socialist you actually are.

[white_wolf]

120. I would advise reading Lenin as well

simply because Trotskyism is considered a branch of Leninism, though don't get too bogged down in the sectarian fights.

[socialist_n_TN]

123. Yes. ALWAYS source material.......

That way you can make up your own mind as to where you stand.

[TBF]

209. Lenin - my recommendation is Imperialism

Read here for free: http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm

[EvolveOrConvolve]

64. Good point

See ya.

[rhett o rick]

128. Good grief. Listen to yourself. Many people are being disenfranchised by the current leaders of

the Democratic Party and your solution, "I'm goina tell on you. You arent following the rules". The party doesnt need you that want to split the party.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[originalpckelly]

5. No, you're the Democrat.

They're the sell outs.

You didn't do anything wrong with being a liberal, and you don't have to redefine yourself. It's better to stay and fight rather than cower in fear and relabel.

[msongs]

7. move to California, dems here do not grovel to and appease republicans :-) nt

[former9thward]

38. They just elect them to the governorship routinely.

Even though Democrats outnumber Republicans by 50% in the state.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

70. I know they're the sell-outs

But the national Democratic party continues to push more and more into the corporate sphere. I no longer wish to have my name associated with that. My re-labeling has less to do with them and more to do with how I feel about myself. Instead of cowering in fear, I'm standing up in anger.

And no matter what, I will still call myself a liberal. A bleeding heart, died in the wool fucking liberal. I wear the label proudly. I'm just now a liberal socialist instead of a liberal democrat.

[socialist_n_TN]

117. Trust me, he'll have more fight in him as a socialist.......

than he would as a "third way Dem". Most socialists, ESPECIALLY in this country, are MUCH more militant than the Democratic Party. Also, most socialists, if they're involved in electoral party politics at all, will vote Democratic just because of the way that politics in this country are set up.

[Hawkowl]

11. Welcome to the club!

If there are enough of us, we WILL push one of the parties to the left!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

54. Exactly!

That's what I hope will happen. With the corporate money involved in politics though, I fear for our future.

[SidDithers]

12. Bully for you...nt

Sid

[MuseRider]

13. Welcome to the ever growing club.

You took it longer than I could.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

82. Thanks, when do I get my badge and learn the secret handshake?

:)

I took it for a long time, but no more...

[white_wolf]

15. Welcome to the club.

Let me know if you have any questions I can answer.

[patrice]

16. We are enslaved by labels that take higher priority than issues. nt

[Scurrilous]

17. Good on you.

:patriot:

[white_wolf]

18. I suspect over time, we will see a lot more people take up that title.

The best recruiters for Socialism aren't the socialists, but the capitalists themselves.

[socialist_n_TN]

119. Word my friend.........

Word!

[Raksha]

131. So true! I can't say whether the capitalists converted me to socialism

or made me realize that's what I've been all along.

[Vinca]

19. I realized I was a Socialist some time ago.

Still officially registered as a Dem, but may go Indy.

[white_wolf]

21. You are in good company.

Such as the great Bernie Sanders. Why can't he be president?

[Dappleganger]

36. Been NPA (no party affiliate) for years.

And yes I vote in all elections.

[eilen]

40. I'm Indy, going Green nt.

[dana_b]

66. me too

I've not been a registered Dem for about 10 years now. Indy is fine but I do like the Green platform.

[jwirr]

208. And therein lies the question. What would happen if more and more

people started registering socialist? I am not suggesting this as I consider it a real danger in a country moving toward fascism at lightning speed. Also it would mean we could not take part in caucus and primary activity on the local basis. But it would be one way to protest and we could still vote Democratic when we had to in the general elections. This is a thought to hang on to for future reference.

[oldlib]

22. There has to be

a place for the more liberal element on this board. The Democratic Party has shifted right at this time and the Obama administration has assumed that position. I'll stay aboard, however.

[mod mom]

23. I say I'm a Progressive who is registered as a Democrat but votes independently

of the party.

and btw I'm NOT "IN". I'd love a Bernie Sanders type to realize we need a representative of the people. (and the old Nader warnings don't faze me in the least as I see little difference...it's just a scam.)

[tcaudilllg]

173. That's just a crutch for your inaction in the primaries.

You have no excuse for not voting in the general election when only an effective argument is needed to persuade people to your side.

[mod mom]

192. You don't know what you're talking about.

I closed my business of 17 years in '05 to devote more time to change and have worked nearly full time in both primaries thru general since 2002 Just because I choose not to work for Obama doesn't mean I won't work down ticket for a progressive candidate or in my area of expertise-voter protection (I work the Obama boiler room in Ohio on election night)

I'll only work toward progressive change was my point.

[geckosfeet]

24. I certainly do not share the values displayed by the democatic executive office.

Bernie Sanders and sometimes Dennis Kucinich - but the current white house has shown way too much republican leg than it should.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

84. Finding that I agreed with Bernie Sanders on almost everything

was an eye-opening experience for me and caused a lot of self-reflection.

[DCBob]

32. That's sounds about right.

In fact many of the angry folks on this board are probably closer to being socialists than Democrats. Actually that sort of clears the air and helps explain much of stuff we read here. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Mojorabbit]

39. I don't think so

What was considered Republican when I was coming up, Eisenhower and Nixon is now considered to the left of the current Dem party. I haven't moved on the scale, the party did.

[DCBob]

43. I am sure you realize attitudes and politics are not static and evolve over time.

Generally speaking, the nation got more liberal up until about the Reagan era and has since moderated or moved more conservative... and both parties have evolved in a similar manner. Not saying it's right or wrong but that's reality... imo.

[Mojorabbit]

100. Polls show that the public

has a liberal bias on most issues. I don't think the population has moderated all that much. I think the squeaky wheels, ie press, religious right, tea party, might make it seem so but I don't think it is so on issues that matter.
Even now a majority think we should be taxing the rich but our representatives will have none of that.

[socialist_n_TN]

122. You're fighting the last war............

You were right about the rightward shift up to about '04. And even before that the national elections were split basically 50/50. Look at all the polls that show 60+% support for REALLY left leaning positions. It's just that the Dem party is still in Reagan Era "survival" mode rather than reflecting the REAL will of the people.

[Peacetrain]

37. Soooo what does that mean in the real world.. you are not supporting

Democrats?

You are not supporting the Party?

You are going to actively campaign against Democrats?

I mean there are only two parties effectively that can swing an election in this country..

Republican

Democrat..

[EvolveOrConvolve]

56. I didn't say either of those things

I'm talking about myself as a person. I can't, in good conscience, continue to label myself with "Democrat" when the party itself has sold out to corporate interests.

"I mean there are only two parties effectively that can swing an election in this country.."

There's the problem and the real reason we're in trouble.

[AnOhioan]

41. Was Dem....now an official Green. Left behind the corporatists

[Ruby the Liberal]

42. Card carrying DSA member here

Welcome!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

226. I signed up for the email list last night

I'm going to follow the DSA for a while and if I like what I see, I'm going to become an actual member. Hopefully it won't get me fired from my job...

[ecstatic]

45. That's fine. Now can you, the Greens and other Nader types

just leave so that the real Democrats here can discuss real strategies for meeting realistic goals?

[Cameron27]

49. Drive all dissenters away! Brilliant idea.

Back slapping each other in an echo chamber is a swell strategy for "meeting realistic goals." You're gonna haul in a TON of votes in 2012, a ton.

[Warren DeMontague]

67. Really? You mean you WOULD vote for Obama, except for what one guy said to you on DU?

Wow.

[Cameron27]

81. Wow yourself.

You seriously don't think the poster was talking about holding "strategy sessions" designed to sway me or any other DU member, do you? She wouldn't be shooing away anyone with a dissenting voice if she were.

[Warren DeMontague]

215. I'm not that flexible.

:shrug:

[jwirr]

210. Ever heard of the lesser of two evils? I voted for JFK but I do not see

why I have to goose step to one tune to vote for a Demcratic candidate. For God's sake they are talking about cutting social security and giving the rich tax breaks and banksters more and more bailouts. That is so far from what it used to be that it is not us leaving the Democratic values it is the leaders who have left us.

[Warren DeMontague]

216. Wait. Slow down. One thing at a time.

"ever heard of the lesser of two evils"? Every 4 years.

I'm with you on the cuts. I think we should cut the defense budget, raise taxes on the rich, and end the drug war before we start bleating about 'shared sacrifice'.

Now.. more bailouts to the dreaded 'banksters'? What bailouts? What 'banksters'? Got a link on these 'more bankster bailouts'?

TARP has been paid back, and if we hadn't done something, the global financial system could have collapsed. I know people like to fulminate about 'banksters', and yes accountability and reregulation were and are crucial; but the bailouts themselves were a good idea.

[jwirr]

227. You may think that they helped the problem with the bailouts. I think

they merely prolonged the pain for those of us on the bottom.

Number one they moved some more money to the top and yes they paid it back after they used it to make even more money for themselves with a lot of it being invested overseas instead of at home.

Secondly, I come from a long line of FDR Democrats and I agree with Robert Reich and Paul Krugman - that money spent on jobs (especially targeted jobs) would have done more good for all of us especially since many of them were refusing to lend it out anyhow.

Thirdly, they were too big to fail - what ever happened to Teddy Roosevelt's big stick? We need corporations like that broken down into smaller units so that they do not pull the entire world down with them if they play casino with the money. By giving them the stimulus we encouraged them to continue as they were.

If you are right I am glad that we are not in full fledged Great Depression II but I just think there could have been a better way. We are not going to recover from this mess if no one takes into account that we need good jobs to help the people get out of debt. As long as they keep us working for peanuts and deep in debt to the credit card companies this is not going to get better. If you ask me we need one of those Jewish debt cancellation holidays! Just joking - that will never happen.

[PassingFair]

50. What's the matter, you guys not able to sell out the working class fast enough?

The "realistic goals" of the "New Dem Party"
are the same as old school conservatives.

No thanks.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. I'm just wondering what the specific outrage is, today.

Specifically. Serious question.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

72. Bingo!

As a member of the working class, I'm tired of getting fucked. At least with the Repukes, I knew I was getting fucked and kind of expected it. With the national Democratic party, it's more like rape. I wanted a nice night out on the town (that I paid for) and instead I got accosted in his BMW. To add insult to injury, I'm then told to sit down and shut up and stop complaining.

[ecstatic]

107. It's that type of over the top comment that makes it a waste of time

to entertain Naderites. You will never be satisfied, doesn't matter if Kucinich and Sanders somehow found their way into the White House, you'd still find reasons to be outraged.

[white_wolf]

113. I'm sure we would be happy with Sanders, but to

expect us to be happy with a party that is trying to compete with the GOP on who can sell out the working class the fastest is ridiculous.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

58. Done

It's obvious that people who feel as I do aren't welcomed in the Democratic party.

See ya.

[white_wolf]

88. "Real Democrats?" I wonder if they saw the current state of the party today

if FDR or JFK would be "real democrats" in your eyes.

[TBF]

96. Hell, Eisenhower is looking leftist next to some of these folks ... nt

[TBF]

95. So enlighten us wise one - if you are hell-bent on throwing out paying progressives

does that mean this board is just an extension of the Obama campaign (ie we can contribute but it is nothing next to what the corporations pay so it means nothing)?

[ecstatic]

103. I'm a paying progressive too who votes Democratic... the OP says he no longer

is a democrat, which means he will be helping the GOP.

[white_wolf]

110. He never said he would be helping the GOP, but great strawman.

The Democratic Party did this to themselves by embracing the Right and becoming "pragmatists." It had a good run, but the party of FDR is dead, its the part of Bill Clinton now.

[ecstatic]

111. Right. And FDR was ripped apart by people like you too nt

[white_wolf]

115. It was people like me who helped push FDR to the left.

In fact a lot of the New Deal came from Norman Thomas's socialist party platform, including a little thing called Social Security.

[ecstatic]

116. Maybe you should read this...

http://ukiahcommunityblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/liberal-criticism-of-franklin-roosevelt-and-the-new-deal/

[white_wolf]

121. Yes, the Left criticized FDR

and because of that he was pushed to the Left.

[TBF]

183. Absolutely correct - FDR was very status quo

and pushed to the left by the threat of the socialists/communists gaining popularity in this country. He basically saved capitalism, and I actually thought they were propping up Obama to do the same thing. But the threat of the left is gone (purged in the 20's and again in the 50's), so Obama did not do what I thought he would do. Instead he went straight right, ala Ronald Reagan. Other communists predicted this would happen, because they knew more history than I did. But I am reading now, and learning daily, and unfortunately I expect things will get even worse before they get better.

So here we are. Workers vs. Capital. Which side you're on is the only relevant thing to discuss in this thread, but the Obama supporters amuse me with their myriad attempts to derail the conversation.

[stockholmer]

207. +100 excellent find

[LaurenG]

169. Go back to the op and read it again - that was not stated except by you.

Your argument is full of distortions and overly dramatic hyperbole. It is a disservice to president Obama when you toss out everyone but locksteppers.

Do you think he can win without independents and greens and the mix of progressives that voted for him last time?

[jwirr]

212. What we are in our hearts is not helping the gop. If we stay home,

vote a third party that obviously cannot win or vote gop THEN we are helping the gop. Not one single person here who is talking about being socialist has suggested not voting Democratic. You are the one implying that we do not vote the same way you do. We do not have much choice at this point.

[LooseWilly]

150. Leave?... this is one "Nader-type" who's staying long enough to have a say in the primary...

assuming anyone tries to primary Obama...

Maybe afterward... if I'm still disillusioned (as I probably will be... unless Obama has a schizophrenic break and becomes a different person... Tyler Durden, for instance) ... maybe then I'll leave.

Or maybe you should have me kicked out... to make room for the moderate-conservatives that Obama is courting with his every action for the upcoming election.

On the other hand... if there's only 2 choices, black and white... binary politics in this country... and Obama is doing his damnedest to piss me off with his every policy... maybe that means that I am a Republican?... Hmm... an interesting conclusion forced by your ejection and premise of a binary system.

—Wow... talk about a "real" strategy for a "realistic" goal... nice work. Too bad the difference between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama is mostly a matter of melanin, at this point. Or... can you point out a substantive, rather than rhetorical, difference? I'd be truly curious to hear it...

[Blue-Jay]

46. Don't care.

Do what you think is best for you, but don't expect me to give a shit, OK?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

60. I didn't think about your opinion before I posted it

See ya.

[Bobbie Jo]

73. +1

....

[themadstork]

51. I solve this by simply

calling myself "a liberal." i'm not a progressive (don't buy the teleological view of history, think it to be more like what Emerson outlined), I don't recognize my values in the "new" direction of the dems (away from poor and workers), and I'm not sure where I stand yet on socialism. I stand by the tenets of (a certain kind of) liberalism more than anything else.

[EstimatedProphet]

59. I can call myself a Democrat, I just can't call them Democrats.

[inna]

75. so true

[Warren DeMontague]

61. ***

[EvolveOrConvolve]

62. Thanks for your well-thought out feedback - it was real helpful

See ya.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. ***

[EvolveOrConvolve]

87. ***

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

79. No, I think "Democratic Underground" is a perfect name

We're current or former Dems who live in the underground fighting against the corporate sponsored national Democratic Party. Or at least in my wildly optimistic dream world.

[Bobbie Jo]

83. "dream world"

Underground.... Kinda clumsy, but you're on the right track.

[dorkulon]

106. Too bad they don't want their social values or economic intelligence back. nt

[EvolveOrConvolve]

78. Addendum #1

First, simply because I'm changing my own label doesn't mean that I won't continue to vote for Democrats since the alternative is far, far worse. I just won't associate my name with that of the Democratic party. And if the Democratic is only marginally different from the Republican, I probably won't vote at all if there isn't a true candidate that matches my system of human values.

Second, I'm not abandoning the Democratic Party. They have abandoned me, my family, my well-being, and my rights as a citizen.

[Harmony Blue]

89. I too have recently started to call myself

a socialist.

No one should shame you for what you believe in. I am still registered as a Democrat, but on too many issues I identify myself as socialist.

[socialist_n_TN]

124. And welcome to you, too, Harmony Blue

:) Welcome to DU and to the socialist international! You're decoder ring is IN THE MAIL! :rofl:

As wolf said above, the best recruiters for socialism are the capitalists.

[Shagbark Hickory]

90. You should. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

93. Thank you!

The best response so far!

:)

[Shagbark Hickory]

94. Voter registrations in my former state (floree-duh) used to have it as an option.

years and years ago.
Most countries have political parties that openly refer to themselves as socialist. Great britain for example.

[Harmony Blue]

97. Almost all of the civilized world has socialist parties part of the political process

with the exception being autocratic regimes or oligarchies.

Greece for example has over five political parties vying for power, and if I recall correctly at least three of them are considered socialist, and there is even one that is the communist party of Greece (KKE).

[Shagbark Hickory]

98. Precisely. nt

[greendog]

101. I'm a leastworstocrat and I always try to vote for the least worst candidate.

Nobody's started a Leastworstocratic Underground so I just hang here with you guys. I hope that's OK. :hi:

[Capitalocracy]

102. maybe instead of not calling yourself a Democrat...

there are some other people we should stop calling Democrats...

[rhett o rick]

104. We cant win by abandoning the Democratic Party. We need to fight for it back. nm

[Harmony Blue]

105. I agree with that

A hijacked Democratic party could do a lot more damage than most people realize. The key to taking back the Democratic party is involving the younger generation. We must past the torch to them, and I am sure they will take it with zeal given how loony the Tea Party is.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

112. The younger generation turned out big-time in 2008

It didn't do anything except provide votes for more of the same corporate shit.

[Harmony Blue]

118. That is true

But now they are seeing this, and may open them to the truth. Or even to seek out how the political process works in other countries. Most Americans don't know how the E.U. works for example, or how many significant gains Greens and Socialists have made in Europe.

[white_wolf]

125. 08 was the first time I could vote for a president and

I'll admit I got suckered into thinking Obama was the next FDR and now I realize I was lied too. However, I'll keep fighting for real change and real progress, but I fear how that many of the people my age will just say "screw politics" and go back to watching TV and playing video games all day.

[Ken Burch]

133. We may never get those kids back

And it will be all our leaders' fault if we don't. It's like the party WANTED to drive them away or something.

[Poll_Blind]

127. Recced- but I don't know if I'd call myself a Socialist. However, the way...

...we've been going, I vote for a firebrand Democrat and I get...President Obama as opposed to Candidate Obama.

With the way things are going, I'm going to have to vote for the corpse of Karl Marx in order to get a moderate Democrat!

PB

[bertman]

129. If it makes the purists feel better, just call yourself a Democratic Socialist. nt REC

[slay]

132. I am proud to stand with Bernie Sanders

regardless of his party affiliation. while Independent by definition - he's a democratic socialist by nature.

I sadly agree - on the national level - the Democrats have sold us out to the mega-rich, the super-powerful, the military industrial complex, and giant corporations. There is no party of The People any more. :(

I know Bernie says he won't run in 2012 - but here's hoping.....

[JackInGreen]

135. Fingers crossed

my wife has recently started a new career that offers a flexibility of location, and Bernie has added Vermont to our list!

[JackInGreen]

134. I've been calling myself

a Progressive Socialist for a while, personally, though I've never checked to see if there's a party or if we line up.

[Marrah_G]

168. google Socialist Party USA

I'd post a link but not sure if that would be breaking a rule.

[NYC Liberal]

137. So are you going to vote for Democrats next year or

toss your vote to a third party candidate?

[Sherman A1]

146. While I agree with you,

I am thinking of calling myself a "Progressive-Conservative".

I am Progressive on most issues but conservative on Government Spending on things for which I think we need to support less, like carbon based fuels, wars and along those lines. I would like less government in my life in the areas of whom marries whom, privacy (except for strong laws to protect it) and alike.

And for our charming top 1%, well "It's time to give the money back folks" You have had your turn and your fun, the rest of us need some cash and I would like to see them taxed at the rates of the Eisenhower Era.

[eridani]

149. It's certainly true that too few Dems stand up for us. Yet, at the same time--

--the ONLY politicians who do stand up for us are Democrats. See the Wisconsin 14, for example. You don't need to donate to DNC or DSCC, etc. There are many, many local Dems who are worth supporting as individuals.

Heck, I'm a socialist. Bernie is a socialist. These days, all that means is that we believe in public goods.

[harmonicon]

152. What has being a "Democrat" ever meant?

I'm always so confused when people call themselves Democrats but aren't active party members. It's just a political party, not a way of life. I'm an anarchist, but I don't think that should in any way reflect what party I might support in an election. As far as I'm concerned, the only people who should be called Democrats, Republicans, etc. are those who are politically active within the parties (and I don't mean phone banking - I mean as a politician or party official).

[mmonk]

153. I have on my kitchen table a North Carolina Voter Registration Application.

I'll probably fill it out and send it in this week to change to independent.

[dotymed]

154. I too align much stronger

to Socialism than any other political philosophy that America has. Did you "officially" change your party affiliation or do you "just" refer to yourself in that way?
I suspect a lot of other Americans feel as we do. I (in the past) have answered polls(?) and labeled myself as a Democrat and I do not remember whether I had to identify with a certain party when I registered to vote. I think that if every person who felt as we do, actually "registered(?) as Socialists, then the existing pols may notice and change their path of corruption ? Just an idea...

[rpannier]

157. Zell Miller still calls himself a Democrat so consider it a split nt

[DFW]

158. A label by any other name is just as useless

The right wing calls me a "soshalist" and a "libbrul" because I believe in a society that takes care of ALL of
its own, and not just the select few born to riches (or who were clever enough to steal them and not get caught),
and that women have the right to choose their own destiny in ALL aspects of their lives, and that religion plays
no part whatsoever in ANYTHING a local, state or federal government does or decides.

On the other hand, I have progressive friends who call me conservative because I've stayed with the job I was
recruited for right out of college (36 years ago!), have the same wife I first married, try to avoid debts, don't
do drugs (including nicotine or alcohol), and do not live beyond my means.

I tell them all to save their labels, toss them between some peanut butter and some lettuce, and eat them for lunch
for all I care. If putting a label on me is important enough for someone else to waste their time, it's not my place
to tell them they might put their time to (much) better use.

[ThomWV]

159. I became an "Independent" last fall

[Dawgs]

160. I've been doing the same since the Democrats extended "The Bush tax cuts for the rich"

Haven't been a Democrat since December. Like you, I belong to the party of Bernie Sanders.

[ThomWV]

163. That was the last straw for me too

But there was much before it.

[Dawgs]

219. Agree. That was just the final straw.

:hi:

[socialist_n_TN]

222. I actually think that Bernie identifies as a

democratic socialist. Which would make you??? :)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

161. Why label yourself? It's all about policy and values...

[Dogtown]

162. 100%, EOC.

It's time for a viable 3rd party.

[Marrah_G]

164. I started refering to myself as a socialist a bit more then a year ago

That is where my true feeling lie and the Democrats in my opinion are just as bought and paid for as the republicans. They just cover a different segment of society so the Corps have all bases covered. WH, congress and the SC- all beholden to big business. Sad but true and deep down you all know it. Only way out of it is gov funded elections, but they will never voted against THEIR best interests.

They just flash abortions , gays and guns and keep everyone arguing while they rob us blind. We fall for it every time and frankly they have to much power now to ever expect to be reigned back in.

Thank goodness plans are beginning to for a move to VT on an off the grid self contained property. I'll post picts once the arrangements become final.

I also joined the Nationals Socialists Party

[white_wolf]

211. "Nationals Socialists Party!?"

Umm, I could be wrong in this case, but usually the term "National Socialists" refer to the Nazi party, as in the National Socialist German Workers Party and its U.S. inspired wannabes. However, maybe your party just choose a bad name or I'm wrong on this one. I'm not at all saying your a Nazi by the way, I'm just letting you know that 1. you might want to look into that party and make sure of what they stand for and 2. Petition them to change their name if they are a real socialist party. Or do you mean the National branch of the Socialist Party USA? If so, than ingore this because they are a very good party, the "heirs" of Norman Thomas and Eugene Debbs.

[Marrah_G]

228. Yes socialist party USA

To late to change my bad wording now............

[disillusioned73]

165. I've been recently wondering whether I need to do this as well..

what a disappointment this party has become..

[OwnedByFerrets]

167. I am of the same ilk as Bernie!!

[baldguy]

170. We are all socialists. Including the GOP.

The mere fact that they want to utterly destroy anything that carries the slightest whiff of "socialism" - and thus utterly destroy the American economy in the process - should be enough to exclude them from serious political power.

[Taverner]

171. Hey...welcome to the Club, fellow Socialist!

A toast to Eugene Debs! :toast:

ON EDIT: "fellow socialist"

[Deep13]

172. "Arise, you victims of oppression...

for the tyrrants fear your might.
Don't cling so hard to your possessions.
You have nothing if you have no rights.
Let racist ignorance be ended,
for respect makes the empires fall.
Freedom's merely privilege extended,
unless it applies to one and all.

So, brothers and sisters...

while the struggle carries on...

the Internationale...

unites the world in song!

Comrades, come rally!

for this is the time and place

The international ideal

will be the human race!

Welcome aboard.

[Taverner]

199. [phone]

[myrna minx]

205. Look at all of those rabble rousers who aren't "pragmatic" and "sensible".

They shouldn't have ever rocked the boat. Now everyone just sit down and shut up - it's the sensible thing to do. :eyes:

[They_Live]

174. It makes a lot more sense

to help your fellow man, than to always try to figure a way to fuck them over and steal their coin purse. We need to abolish this two party system, because it has turned out to be one party with two costumes against everyone else.

[fredamae]

175. If wanting to help other's

that need help, if you don't mind your taxes being spent to help kids, the elderly and those who are ill and/or just less fortunate? Then by today's definition, yes, you are a Socialist.

I guess, I am a socialist because I want to Help others.
I'm not so sure we would Want to shy from that identification. To me, this candidate platform is an educational opportunity to Teach others what it Means to be a "social critter".

I'd share my last tuna sandwich, cuppa coffee, my last beer and my last band aid.:)
Call me a Socialist and make me Proud!

[valerief]

176. If Socialism means actually sharing *at least some of the wealth*, I'm a Socialist, too.

Besides, when is Bernie Sanders wrong?

[BlueJac]

177. Welcome

[mike_c]

178. I am a socialist too....

eom

[center rising]

181. Hey, call yourself what you want

I'm, a centrist, and I'm hated by the left and by the right.

[meow2u3]

182. I'm more of a "Christian Democrat"

Progressive on economic issues; very progressive on labor issues, despite my not belonging to a union myself; but somewhat conservative on social issues, but not to the point where I'd moralize. I prefer to practice instead of preach. I'd rather let my deeds do the talking.

I am, in other words, an old school Dem (pre-1970's) like my parents were.

There's even a movement to begin a Christian Democratic party in the US: Christian Democrats of America

Despite the name, the movement is not restricted to Christians. The principles are simply based on true Christian values the way Christ Himself intended, as opposed to the way Repunks and conservos twist the Bible; preach hatred, violence, and oppression of the weak and defenseless; and then pass off their warped ideology as traditional family values. Conservos forget, or disregard the fact that, actions speak louder than words, and unfortunately, many voters fall for the empty promises of Republicans and Democrats.

Read what a real pro-lifer says, as opposed to repuke anti-abortionists. You'll be surprised what you see. http://www.christiandemocratsofamerica.org/prolife.html

[kestrel91316]

184. I am sort of a Social Democrat, as they refer to those of our ilk in Europe.

[NorthCarolina]

185. Democratic Socialist here too.

Prior to the 2008 primaries I had been registered as an Independent. However, when Kucinich entered the campaign I wanted to be able to cast my primary ballot for him and so changed my affiliation back to Democrat so I could vote in their primaries. Turns out the joke was on me after all as Kucinich ended up being forced out before North Carolina held their primaries. At that point, I was left with the Clinton-Obama "choices" (and I use that term lightly). I knew Hillary Clinton was hard core DLC so she was excluded right away as the last thing America needed in 2008 was to elect another Corporatist. I was suspicious of Obama's Progressive campaign rhetoric, and boisterous calls for "CHANGE", but knowing beyond any doubt WHO Hillary would truly represent (and it wouldn't be the people), I punched for the unknown long-shot who had been plugging transparency, bringing an end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, accepting nothing less than a public option in health care to allow people a "choice" other than the for-profit death panels, elimination of unfair trade agreements, ending too big to fail, closing Guantanamo, etc. Of course, I ended up voting for this long shot again in the general. Once again, the joke was on me.

[ooglymoogly]

189. Yes I agree....though I think it would be smarter for disenfranchised

progressives (that would be all of us), sometimes called the base, in other words, to physically change our affiliation and voter registration from Dem to Independent en masse...(that would shake a few cockle shells) with Bernie Sanders at the helm. You want someone to pay attention?

Both parties court independents more than any other group. The pugs have taken over and bought off the Democratic party...we should take over the Independent "party" or at least dominate it, because it is up for grabs. I for one am totally disillusioned by the bogus two party system and our insane merry go round political system that is nothing more than Kabuki theater; staged by oligarchs to mollify the masses while they rob us blind and make us think we are in a democracy, which we definitely are not.

After all who in fact is more like us...0 a "democrat" or Bernie, an Independent.

[protect our future]

190. Thanks, Evolve!

Lately I've been telling people that socialism can't be all that bad since that's what the R's call we Dems, and besides that, Bernie Sanders is the senator who makes the most sense of any of 'em except for my hero John Kerry. I'm irritated that I have once again been unknowingly conned by whoever or whatever I have seen, read, or heard into believing that socialism is evil/horrible/undesirable. So let 'em continue to say I'm a socialist. At least my status is improving, since during the Booosh reign I was termed a traitor.

[goodnews]

191. Democracy and Socialism

One without the other is a farce.

[Skidmore]

193. Whoa..."progressive" is now an uncool label???

Jesu, I'm soooo out of touch with labels and jargon now.

[techno]

194. Oh noes!!!

Totally agree that both major parties are hopeless.

Disagree on Socialism. Who wants to be linked to a philosophy that is correctly associated with some of history's ugliest mass murderers? Besides, modern Socialists are as lame as Obama--see the Social Democratic Prime Minister of Iceland who was trying to sell out her population to the banksters until the voters loudly said April 9th they were having none of it.

If you want better, I would suggest you try some of the homegrown Progressive movements like the La Follette Progressives in Wisconsin (still know how to rile things up and win elections) the Non-Partisan League in North Dakota (still the only state with a State Bank). Read up on our homegrown movements and you will discover the LAST thing you need is the absurd worldview of Marx.

[white_wolf]

214. I was wondering when someone would start this.

Marx's "absurd worldview" predicted the failures and problems that arise from capitalism almost perfectly. I suggest you read Capital. Oh and you want to talk about mass murders? I consider every person that dies as a result of the capitalist wars of imperialism in the ME to be murder, I consider every single person who has died from lack of healhcare, food, shelter, clothing to be victims of capitalist murder. Also those nations you are taking about were not socialist or communist, read the Revolution Betrayed, by Leon Trotsky to learn what those nations really were, they were bureaucrat states ruled not by the workers, but by a small group of Oligarchs. Trotsky wanted the country to be ruled by a series of workers councils. So don't come in here, talking about things you nothing about, other than what the Right wink is spewing.

[Dawgs]

220. Your post is sad on so many levels.

Inform yourself, please.

[techno]

225. Not so sad as a die-hard Marxist

Dawgs--you would be damn surprised at how well I am informed--including time spent in the Marxist world in the 1970s.

The trouble is that outside of noticing a few VERY obvious things about Capitalism, Marx wasn't very bright, his worldview was hopelessly primitive, and his followers were monsters. In 1968, half the world's populations were governed by Marxist governments. 21 years later, only a few cranks wanted to be associated with this thoroughly discredited, bloodthirsty doctrine. Now if you actually believe that Marxism failed because Reagan told Gorbachev to "tear down this wall!" your worldview is simply goofy. But most of you armchair Marxists are in major denial over the fact that outside of the totally corrupt, NO ONE wanted to live in the societies the Marxists created. NO ONE!

[jwirr]

195. Oh, dear. That is a decision my sister & I made way back in the 70s

when we worked for McGovern. In my heart I am a socialist also but I have always voted Democrat because we need to win. How I wish there was such a thing as a viable third party.

[rl6214]

196. Why do you have to be labeled anything?

I don't label myself and don't consider myself tied to any party.

[stockholmer]

197. my party's(Swedish Green Party) platform from 2010 elections, it's how I wish US Dems would govern

I like to call this democratic eco-socialism, we made huge gains in the 2010 elections, the highest percentage growth of any major party, and that was BEFORE Fukushima.

----------------------------------------------------



Raise quality within welfare, invest in educationtion


1. No-one should be without insurance

Everyone should be covered by secure and modern health insurance. We want sickness benefit to be available for as long as people are ill and we want to get rid of the health insurance ceiling. Society has a particular responsibility for providing effective rehabilitation. Everyone should be covered by general unemployment insurance.

2. Shorter working hours

We want to reduce normal working hours to 35 hours a week to give people more time and increase their quality of life. As an initial step we want to introduce support for parents of young children to allow them to reduce their hours, and we want to reintroduce the sabbatical year. We want to introduce more flexibility around retirement age and create opportunities to reduce working hours as people approach retirement.

3. Diversity at school

While at school children are entitled to learn the skills that they will need as they enter adult life. Parents and children will have good opportunities to influence teaching and be able to choose a method that suits the child. All children will have the attention and time that they need with adults in school and at nursery. Quality in Swedish nurseries and primary and secondary schools therefore needs to be improved. We need to increase the teacher-pupil ratio, reduce class sizes and increase the amount of scheduled teaching time. We want to protect diversity in schools, teaching and educational focus. We want to strengthen pupil democracy and invest in pupil healthcare.


4. Let children be children

A playful and safe childhood should be a universal right. A society that is good for children is good for everyone. We want to boost children’s rights and incorporate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child into Swedish law.

5. Preventive care

Healthcare and nursing need to adopt a preventive approach that promotes healthy living. Healthcare will be equal for all and be located close to citizens. It will be characterised by teamwork and broad medical and psychosocial expertise. Special initiatives are required in order to reduce mental ill-health and improve elderly care. Checks and monitoring will be enhanced to reduce cases of incorrect use of medication.

6. Good food

We want to improve the quality of food in schools, hospitals and homes for the elderly. Children, older people and sick people will be served freshly cooked meals from local kitchens in schools, homes and hospitals instead of heated up food that is driven long distances. When procuring services the focus will be on organic ingredients and locally produced food, which is why the law on public procurement needs to be reviewed to allow the promotion of local purchasing. Tasty and nutritional food is a natural aspect of welfare.


7. A strong higher education system and increased student grants

The education system is a key aspect of a modern knowledge-based society. Quality in higher education institutions will be improved by increasing the amount of contact time for the students and a greater focus on good teaching methods. We want to offer people new opportunities and to make it easier to study at all stages in life. That’s why we want to raise the student grant and improve students’ social safety net. Cooperation will be strengthened between universities/higher education institutions and the business sector.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A just and sustainable world is possible


1. Active global climate policy

We must reduce global emissions of greenhouse gases. We want to campaign globally to phase out all subsidies on coal, oil and nuclear power. We want to introduce environmental control charges for fossil fuels within international airline and shipping operations to cover the cost of climate initiatives in poor countries. We must increase international support for climate measures in developing countries.

2. Tackle poverty

We want to work for fair trade that takes account of the needs of the poor countries. The level of aid given by Sweden will be at least one percent of GNI. Sweden will campaign to write off illegitimate debts and ensure that poor countries do not fall into debt traps. Tackling poverty will be a key element of foreign, trade and development aid policy.

3. Phase out export of arms

We want to phase out the export of arms. An initial step will be to toughen up regulations for Swedish weapons exports. It is unacceptable for Swedish weapons to be exported to countries that are involved in human rights abuses. We say no to investing additional billions in a new, upgraded version of the JAS fighter plane. Sweden should remain outside NATO. We must step up efforts to establish peace in the world. We also want to prohibit the manufacture of mines and cluster bombs in Sweden.

4. Stop overfishing in our seas

All subsidies must be removed that contribute towards overfishing. Cod and other species of fish in our seas should not be fished if their numbers fall below safe levels. Strong measures are required to tackle illegal fishing. We will also review Sweden’s trade policy to help reduce overfishing in other seas around the world.

5. Respect for human rights in refugee policy

We want to create more legal routes for migration to the EU. A more humane refugee policy is needed. There have long been deficiencies in the Swedish migration process, which is why we want to carry out an amnesty for all those without papers. The best interests of the child will be prioritised in the assessment of all refugee cases. Those without papers should be entitled to healthcare and have the right to attend school.

6. No to EMU

We want Sweden to keep its own currency and not join the EMU. The EU must be more democratic and less centralised. The EU should not have a common defence policy


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


An equal society increases freedom


1. Equality at home and on the board

Both parents are entitled to be at home with their children and the child has the right to be with both parents. We want parental insurance to be divided into three periods, with the parents each being assigned a certain number of days and the third period being divided up as they choose. This will improve opportunities to divide up parental leave in an equal manner. We want to introduce a law on quotas for the number of women on the boards of listed companies and public sector companies.

2. Women’s safety is freedom

We want to increase resources to women’s refuges working with domestic violence. The justice system must handle cases with skill and respect. Rape laws will be strengthened to guarantee sexual integrity. Children who have witnessed violence in the home will be regarded as victims of crime. People who are convicted of assault will be forced to undergo treatment. Violence against men and violence within same sex relationships must also be given attention. More resources are needed to tackle prostitution and human trafficking.


3. Equal rights for all

Discrimination legislation needs to be toughened up. We want to promote equal rights at companies and government agencies. Local anti-discrimination agencies will be strengthened. We want to continue to campaign for the rights of homosexual, bisexual and transsexual people. Efforts to tackle hate crime will be stepped up. Everyone will have the opportunity to participate fully in society. We want lack of access to be classed as discrimination against people with disabilities under the law.

4. Learning using native language

One of the most efficient ways of improving school results for children whose native language is not Swedish is to invest more in native language teaching. We want to extend the right to native language teaching to cover the entire compulsory schooling period. We also want to increase subject teaching in children’s native language.


5. Jobs and training for newcomers

Newcomers to Sweden will be offered opportunities to learn Swedish quickly, validate or supplement their training and get a job. We want Swedish language studies to be combined with practical experience. We want to improve quality in Swedish as a second language. We want universities and higher education institutions to offer courses in Swedish for people coming to Sweden with an academic education.


6. Defend the right to a private life

People’s right to a private life is being restricted across society. We want to strengthen the regulations regarding camera surveillance so that individual integrity is taken into consideration. The state will not be able to register all Internet user traffic in Sweden. We want to abolish the FRA law on changes to defence intelligence activities.

7. A free internet and balanced copyright legislation

We want to protect the rule of law and integrity on the internet by making changes to the IPRED law on file sharing. We want to modernise copyright law and decriminalise file sharing for private use. Net neutrality is an important principle that must be defended.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New jobs, entrepreneurship and small companies


1. Reduced VAT for service companies

We want to encourage growth in the service sector by reducing VAT within several industries. It will be cheaper to repair broken items, eat at restaurants, go to the hairdresser and fix a bicycle. Sustainable consumption of services must be encouraged and we want to take an initial step towards achieving this during the mandate period.

2. Reduced tax for small companies

We want to reduce payroll tax for small companies by ten percentage points. We want sole traders to have an additional reduction for the first employee during the first year of operation.

3. Venture capital for SMEs

We want to introduce a state venture capital fund to make it easier for more small and medium-sized companies to have access to venture capital. The fund will be financed from dividends from the state companies.


4. Trade and industry at the forefront

A lot of new entrepreneurs are motivated by the desire to take greater ethical, social and environmental responsibility. This contributes towards sustainable development. We need to encourage this approach. We want to increase grants for innovation, product development and environmental technology development at small and medium-sized companies. The state and municipal companies will contribute towards new environmental technology, renewable energy and act as an example when it comes to reducing climate impact. Social and cooperative enterprise will be part of a green entrepreneur policy. We work to encourage more companies to start up in rural areas. We want to actively work to utilise and improve opportunities to take social, ethical and environmental aspects into consideration during the public procurement process.

5. Jobs and training for young people

We want to introduce a trainee programme in the welfare sector. We also need to invest more in professional training programmes and apprenticeships. More higher education institutions will offer work experience at companies and authorities as part of the training programme.

6. An open and varied cultural life

A vibrant and creative cultural life is a key success factor for health, quality of life and the development of society. We want to invest in culture so that everyone, particularly children and young people, is given the opportunity to participate in various different cultural activities, both actively and as a member of the audience. Schools of culture will be strengthened. Culture is a climate friendly alternative to material consumption.

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Invest in new jobs and reducing climate impact


1. Sweden will take its share of the responsibility

Sweden has to take its share of global responsibility. Emissions of greenhouse gases will decrease in accordance with researchers’ recommendations. Increases to green taxes will make it more expensive to use fossil fuels.

2. Double capacity in railway network

Climate-friendly transport policies across the country require major investments in the railway network. Capacity for passenger and goods trains will be doubled. We want to build high-speed railways and link the major Swedish cities Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö to Copenhagen and Oslo. We also want to link the main line with regional tracks to strengthen regional connections. It will be cheaper to travel by train than drive or fly.

3. Expand public transport

We want to invest in an extensive expansion of the public transport system, trams, regional trains, underground and buses, to create more climate-friendly cities. We want to double public transport’s share of transportation by 2020. There is no need for new motorways. Public transport should be accessible and usable for people with disabilities.

4. New fuels for cars

Many people in Sweden are dependent on a car. Fossil fuels need to be phased out for environmental and cost reasons. So everyone should be given the opportunity to fill up using renewable fuel. It should be cheaper to drive on renewable fuels instead of petrol. Domestic production and distribution of renewable fuels will be encouraged. It will be possible to fill up using biogas and recharge electric cars all over the country.


5. Make your own electricity

We want to make producing your own electricity profitable. An increasing number of people are keen to invest in renewable energy and contribute to reducing their climate impact. This also means that more people should be able to supply renewable electricity to the electricity network. We want to introduce a system of fixed prices for renewable electricity and allow net metering for small-scale electricity producers.

6. Invest in renewable energy and energy efficiency

We want to replace nuclear power and fossil fuels with wind power, biofuel, wave power and solar energy, and make investments to improve energy efficiency. We want to invest in rebuilding work that leads to reduced energy consumption. This will reduce energy costs. Uranium mining will be prohibited.

7. Repair Million Programme housing

We want to introduce a special investment grant for rebuilding and repairing run-down homes and urban centres, mainly in the suburbs. The investments will lead to improved home environments and reduced energy consumption.


8. More goods by train and boat

We want to introduce a tax on HGV transportation in order to improve road safety and reduce emissions. This will mean that it will make more financial sense to transport goods by train and boat instead of lorry.

9. Protect nature and biological diversity

Meadows and pastureland that are rich in species will be protected and the section on protection of coastal areas in the Swedish Environmental Code will be strengthened. Valuable natural forests will be protected. Sweden will provide long-term protection for robust stocks of the four major predators: wolves, lynxes, bears and wolverines. The spread of environmental toxins must be curtailed, for example by banning several brominated flame retardants and hormone disruptors. We want to preserve and recreate wetlands and provide legal protection for groundwater, which are all important to our water supply.

10. Farming and animal protection

The use of pesticides and commercial fertilizer will be minimised. Animal protection will be reinforced and we want to ban fur farming. We will protect the soil. We want to make it financially viable to pursue ecologically sustainable farming. Sweden will be at the helm within green industries such as ecotourism and small-scale food processing. We want to protect the soil from genetically modified crops.

[dmallind]

202. Glad you're happy. Irrelevant, but happy.

I have neither the power, nor the interest, nor the slightest desire, to suggest how you should vote, post on the internet, etc, but I can firmly and accurately state that socialists are and will remain completely irrelevant and impotent in the US political arena for at least a full generation and probably more.

[undeterred]

204. Come to Wisconsin.

:kick: :kick::kick::kick: :kick::kick::kick: :kick::kick::kick: :kick::kick::kick: :kick::kick:

[white_wolf]

213. "Socialism needs Democracy like the body needs oxygen." Leon Trotsky.

My favorite socialist.

[chaska]

218. Yup, me too. I sometimes call myself a "small d democrat", though.