Why aren't Progressives Holding the Debt Ceiling Limit Hostage in Exchange

[maxrandb]

for increased taxes on the wealthy?

We all hear how intransigent the Teabaggers are, stomping their feet and holding their breath until they turn blue to get what they want. Where are the 80,000 progressives marching on Washington?

Where are the progressives threatening to "primary" or "take-out" the next Democrat who approves one more dollar in spending cuts to programs that benefit the Poor and Middle Class, that does not include TWO MORE DOLLARS IN INCREASED REVENUE FROM THE TOP?.

Are they all too busy marching on the statehouse in WI?

Is American Idol really that good?

Do they believe that "gentle reminders" are all it takes?

Just once, I would like to see a group of Progressive House members, or Senators stand firm and say; Holding the debt ceiling hostage?, or Threatening to shutdown the government?...well, "Two can play that game"

[rufus dog]

1. you get it!

Even more important you didn't limit the tax increases to the repeal of the Bush rates.

That is how you negotiate with unreasonable parties. You make demands that they feel are unreasonable and have yourself prepared to walk.

Start out stating the tax codes are unsustainable, when asked about repealing the bush cuts state, "well that is a given," we are researching the impact of going back and reviewing even pre-Clinton.

So you have already created a line in the sand, the bush cuts, and have allowed negotiation room for even increased taxes!

[fasttense]

2. No drama Obama would never go along with such opposition

and obstruction. He would rather see million of people die from lack of health care, from poverty, from starvation, from lack of safe housing, from the cold then to appear as if he were opposing the smooth functioning of anything.

That's why we have to get out and do constant protesting because Obama does NOT know how to fight. We, the normal Americans have to show him how to fight.

[RickFromMN]

3. I'm afraid we think we need government more than Tea Party people think they need government.

Government is a tool.

It is the only tool big enough and strong enough to counter the power of rich people and big corporations.

Unfortunately, this tool has fallen into the hands of the very people it should be countering.

The Tea Party people don't see it that way. They think government is their immediate threat.
They don't see rich people or big corporations as their immediate threat.
The don't see government as a tool. They don't ask who really controls this tool.

[maxrandb]

9. My point is

I don't give a "flip" about what the Teabaggers want.

But...this would definitely be a good difining moment about the differences in the two parties. Instead of the "frame" being, "those evil Progressives won't cut anything", if would shift to "Teabag Republicans are willing to bring financial ruin on America to keep tax cuts for the wealthy. Tax cuts, BTW, that 78% of the American people favor ending."!!!

It's time to play offense for a change.

[Atman]

4. They're keeping their powder dry. Gonna write a strongly worded letter.

:(

[Xicano]

5. On this one I think there's no other choice in the matter.

Because they know if they don't raise the debt ceiling there'd be no other way to service the debt our country owes. The FED has been buying up the vast majority of the bonds (monetizing the debt). If the debt ceiling isn't raised then the FED won't have anymore money to monetize the debt. The result is the U.S. will be in default, interest rates will skyrocket and the dollar will collapse causing a depression, and no politician wants to be associated with that Democratic or Republican.

However, continuing raising the debt ceiling to monetize the debt will inevitably down the road lead to hyper inflation. In my opinion we're economically on a sinking ship and the two choices are sink fast or sink slow. I don't mean to sound like an alarmist, but, in my opinion the greedy rich (mostly bankers) have caused our dollar to be checkmated. But who knows, maybe there's something else I don't see. For the sake of everybody I hope I am wrong.

[maxrandb]

8. It doesn't matter

Simply put, the Teabaggers are going to froth at the mouth demanding spending cuts to social programs and entitlements in exchange for voting to raise the debt ceiling.

If you are a tough negotiator, what you would do in that case is say; "Eff that! We've cut all we're going to cut, and if there is not a bill that sets the tax rates on the wealthy back to Clinton rates, then WE WILL NOT VOTE TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING!"

Maybe a strong position like that would cause people to flood the streets in support.

One thing is sure...this "death by a thousands cuts" to a party that couldn't find "Fiscal Responsibility" if you tattooed it on David Koch's a$$ is NOT WORKING!

[ProfessionalLeftist]

6. Good question. If the Tealiban can employ extortionists tactics...

...no reason Progressives can't.

[vi5]

11. Yes there is....

The Tealiban can do it because their elected Republicans listen to them and are afraid of them because they've shown they will use the power of their votes to drive them out of office.

Our elected Dems know they don't have to do that because they can just say "Who are you gonna vote for? Republicans?" and we'll still go pull that lever or press that button no matter what.

So rather than act out of fear of being driven out of office by progressives, they strut along doing as they please because they know we'll keep turning out come election day.

[jillan]

7. One word: Wimps.

[vi5]

10. And how exactly would we do that?

We live in a representative democracy.

None (or I should say far too few) of the leaders we as progressive elected eihter because we believed they were progressive with us or because "we have no other choice" will do this.

We don't have any say in the matter beyond our votes and our calls and our e-mails and the polls.

They've already shown that the calls and the e-mails and the poll numbers don't mean anything to them.

And our elected Dems are the ones holding our votes hostage.

"You better vote for us no matter what, or the country gets Republicans. You don't want THAT, do you?"

[Fuzz]

12. Because we're not ignorant assholes?

:shrug: :shrug:

[Heywood J]

13. Because Progressives don't take hostages? (NT)