I Feel Ashamed To Live In A Country and Be Part of a Party

[Exilednight]

where our leader agrees to increases in defense spending by $5 billion while reducing education by $1.3 billion in the same year, and that doesn't even include the $35 billion cut to Pell Grants over the next ten years.

We'll never achieve peace if we keep selling out the intelligence of our youth.

Edit: "the" to "ten".

[mckara]

1. I Feel the Same Disgust!

[Exilednight]

2. I almost want to give up, but then I realize that is exactly what the

DLC types of the party want.

[Mnemosyne]

30. K&R for more visibility and disgust. n/t

[midnight]

3. I thought the President ran on increasing access to more

money for college students? This country is morally bankrupt...

[msanthrope]

15. He did--the Pell Grant was saved, and this meme was debunked last month--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x407861

Obama instituted the highest award 5.5k. He kept that award level by cutting Summer Pell, which was a fairly inefficient program, thereby keeping the max per year at 5.5, instead of dropping it to 3k.

[cliffordu]

4. Please document the pell grant claim -

this isn't FOX Snooze.

[Exilednight]

8. WaPo. Here you go:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/whats-getting-cut-in-the-fy-2011-budget/2011/04/11/AFMIynLD_blog.html

The budget deal would make modest cuts to several Education Department initiatives, leaving overall funding $1.3 billion lower than last year, according to a summary of the bill released by a Senate committee. The bill would preserve the Pell Grant program, the largest source of need-based grants to college students, with the maximum grant remaining at $5,550. In a compromise, the bill would save an estimated $35 billion over 10 years by cutting an initiative called year-round Pell, which currently allows students to receive two separate grants if they attended college year-round. Obama had proposed the cut in his budget plan.

[ProSense]

11. Pell Grants

were not cut.

[Exilednight]

12. Why does the ignore brigade always show up when Pell is mentioned? n/t

[msanthrope]

14. Because you are posting inaccurate information debunked over a month ago--in this thread--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x407861

President Obama saved the maximum award by cutting an inefficient program, Summer Pell. He instituted and kept the maximum award, 5.5k.

Your facts don;t add up.

[Exilednight]

16. And now he is cutting summer Pell that will cut $35 billion over ten years. It also reduces the

maximum amount. Under the year round Pell program, students could get up $11,000.00 in a complete year ($5,500 for regular school year and another $5,500 for the summer).

You're just being taken in by the language.

[msanthrope]

19. Not according to the government website--5.5k was the max per year. Your 11k fig. is wrong.

"The maximum Pell Grant award for the 2010-11 award year (July 1, 2010 to June 30, 2011) and the 2011-12 award year (July 1, 2011 to June 30, 2012) is $5,550. The amount you get, though, will depend not only on your financial need, but also on your costs to attend school, your status as a full-time or part-time student, and your plans to attend school for a full academic year or less. Note: The maximum award amount is given for any Pell Grant eligible student whose parent or guardian died as a result of military service in Iraq or Afghanistan after Sept.11, 2001. You must be under 24 years old or enrolled at least part-time in college at the time of your parent's or guardian's death."


http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PellGrants.jsp

Note--you can still try to double your Pell, but you have to do four semesters in a single year to qualify,and you have to apply again. That's not Summer Pell.

[Exilednight]

21. It's not wrong. Each student was eligible for $11k per year. I've helped several of my younger

fellow employees apply for the grants. Only a few went to school year round, but they received a second grant after maxing out the original $5.5k for the regular school year.

None of them hit the $5.5k mark since they only took one or two classes at the community college over the summer, thus their needs were less. But it's still a cut.

[msanthrope]

23. So I'm correct then. The max is 5.5k. According the government you can still try for

double Pell, which is 4 semesters in one year for the coming FY--

But Summer Pell didn't work. So it's being cut. READ THE ARTICLES.

[Exilednight]

25. No, you're wrong. But my

explanation wasn't clear either. They maxed out their $5.5k for the regular school year, but didn't max out the summer grant. They received more than $5.5k, but none hit the full $11k for the year.

[msanthrope]

27. Because your students didn't go for four semesters.

Look, it's amazingly simple. According to the government link, for the coming year, your students are still eligible for 5.5k for the regular school year.

they are also still eligible for a second grant--if they do the equivalent work (which your summer students didn't do.)

The SUPPLEMENTAL PROGRAM--for summer school, is being eliminated. Obama instituted that. It wasn't cost efficient. Now it is going away because it costs too much to administrate.

And Obama--who instituted the 5.5k is KEEPING the award at 5.5k, which is the highest it's ever been.

What the hell is the problem????

[Exilednight]

29. We don't have four semesters, only three. Two for the regular school year, and one over the summer.

I notice that you, also, finally confirm that it's a cut to Pell.

The SUPPLEMENTAL PROGRAM--for summer school, is being eliminated.

[Exilednight]

18. Here ya go:

Under current rules, some students who have received a Pell grant for the regular school year can get a second grant to cover summer classes. Obama’s budget would eliminate that option, along with subsidized loans for students in graduate school, the budget documents said.

[msanthrope]

13. YOu are selectively forgetting he saved Pell from being lowered from 5.5k to 3k for everyone

this crap was debunked over a month ago in this thread---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=407861&mesg_id=407861


The amount of the award stays at the maximum--5,500, which is not repayable.

Obama was the one who increased the award to 5,500.

Unless the shortfall was addressed, the max award would have dropped to only 3,000.

Summer Pell was eliminated because it was inefficient.

READ THE ARTICLE!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110213/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_pell_grants

[Exilednight]

17. And reply #16 debunks your claim. New info puts Obama at odds with his earlier words. n/t

[msanthrope]

20. Not at all--your 11k figure doesn't stand up to the government's Pell Grant page--

The maximum Pell Grant award for the 2010-11 award year (July 1, 2010 to June 30, 2011) and the 2011-12 award year (July 1, 2011 to June 30, 2012) is $5,550. The amount you get, though, will depend not only on your financial need, but also on your costs to attend school, your status as a full-time or part-time student, and your plans to attend school for a full academic year or less. Note: The maximum award amount is given for any Pell Grant eligible student whose parent or guardian died as a result of military service in Iraq or Afghanistan after Sept.11, 2001. You must be under 24 years old or enrolled at least part-time in college at the time of your parent's or guardian's death.

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/PellGrants.jsp

Now, remember, you can still try to double your Pell--but you've got to do four semesters, and two applications--that's not Summer Pell, which was a different program that Obama instituted and is now being cut for inefficiency.

[Exilednight]

22. See reply #21.

[msanthrope]

24. Where you confirm that your students got the max award for 5.5k?

And then weren't eligible for a double Pell because they didn't do 4 semesters in one year?

Jeebus. Perhaps your students would prefer to take 3k for the regular school year so some students can go to summer school?

You should ask them--would you all like to take a cut, just so some people can go to summer school?

[walldude]

10. Is your google broken?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-14/higher-education-funding-cut-by-89-billion-over-10-years-in-obama-budget.html

[villager]

5. nothing could make clearer how much "grown ups" hate the young, than in budget "priorities"

Resource allocation, in other words, tells you all you need to know about what a society really values.

[Initech]

6. What I'm more pissed about is that...

The people who don't pay taxes make more money (and give themselves obscene raises and bonuses) than any thing that those that do pay taxes will never see in a lifetime. *AND* there's not a single fucking member of Congress who's willing to address this issue, *AND* the opposing party will actually shut down the government to make sure that these people get their way. *AND* our budget reflects this because the budget cuts reflect the poor instead of the rich. And the poor are the ones who are constantly being told to sacrifice, while the richest Americans don't even have to blink.

We live in backwards fucking bizarro world, I tell you. :grr: :mad:

[underpants]

7. Did you know that we have lasers?

Laser gun fired from US navy ship

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4809310

[Citizen Worker]

9. Yes, the boys have a new toy and they're hankering to field test it. Problem is that all of the

wars we're currently engaged in are air and land so we'll have to start a new one on the high seas to test the new weapon.

[Kablooie]

26. It's not even 'defense' spending. It's 'offense' spending.

In the beginning when we were 'allegedly' looking for Osama, the Taliban refused to give him up after being warned so they asked for retaliation at that time.

But what about now?
It's grown into an interminable optional offense against a group that we may disagree with but are not a direct threat to the U.S.

It's 'not 'defense' it's 'offense" and for no particular reason.

There is NO justification for continuing this.
It's insane!

[Exilednight]

28. That's a good way to think about it. The spending is quite offensive. n/t