Why isn't memory taught more in schools?

[Uben]

The key to intelligence is a good memory. I don't know what age kids develop memory skills, but I assume it's rather young. So, why aren't the first few years aimed at memory development, moreso than they are? It seems that presenting the information is useless if one cannot remember what they see or read. Until one develops good memory skills, learning will always be difficult.

I went through this with my youngest daughter. She struggled through elementary school and intermediate school to make passing grades. I started tutoring her in the sixth grade (she lives with her mom), and I realized her biggest problem was not being able to memorize. So, I worked on her memory skills, and she started getting better grades. Now, as a senior in high school, she makes straight A's!

It seems to me memory classes should be required just like the three R's. I would like to see them at every grade level, kindergarten through 12 th grade. I think you would see a vast improvement in grades as well as graduation rates. It would seem to be a no brainer.

[piratefish08]

1. I used to know the answer to this question.......

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. I dispute your premise

The key to intelligence is not good memory.

[Uben]

3. HEy, I 'm open minded, what do you think it is?

I'm just going on my personal experience.

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. School learning is dependent upon good memory

As are good grades. Neither of which are intelligence.

[blueamy66]

82. I agree.

I was smart enough to learn that teachers love for their students to spit out what they taught. So that's what I did. Got straight As....graduated second in my class.

But do I remember anything? Am I capable of critical thinking? Not really well. Like I said, I just spit it back out at the teachers and got As.

[H2O Man]

6. Remembering

the answer to a question is, of course, important. Equally important is the ability to find the answer to a question which one does not know/remember the answer to.

[SoCalDem]

7. A great teacher once told my class the follwoing:

paraphrasing....

" I can force you to memorize all kinds of stuff to pass the next test, but I plan to teach you haw to FIND information you need. Most important things are written down somewhere, so why try to clog up your brains with extra stuff that you will only truly need for a test?. I'd rather teach you HOW to search for information and how to follow instructions, so you can delve deeper once your imagination is piqued."

[spooked911]

19. quite true-- it's important to know how to find and use the info you need

especially these days where every one has easy access to google

[roguevalley]

59. I made my kids memorize a poem a week and recite it to me.

[Codeine]

62. "clog your brains"?

There's really quite a lot of room in there. Knowing some facts and dates doesn't preclude learning or finding new facts.

[woo me with science]

81. This is not a substitute for learning facts.

Higher-level learning and critical thinking are dependent on the mastery of a base of facts from which to reason. Not just ACCESS to facts....MASTERY of facts. Children need a mastery of number facts, not just the ability to look up the answer on a calculator, in order to understand and manipulate numbers in their heads at a level that allows them to reach the next level of mathematical reasoning. Children need a mastery of basic historical facts and timeline in order to make historical comparisons and see patterns, trajectories, and parallels in history. You do not reach higher-level reasoning in ANY subject area without attaining a facility with lower-level material that allows your mind to compare, contrast, juxtapose, and build higher-level concepts.

Being able to look things up is necessary but far from sufficient.

[rucky]

12. critical thinking

Obviously, memorization is a good way to access the facts, but critical thinking is needed to assess the veracity of what you're committing to memory.

[themadstork]

14. Hard to think critically if you can't remember what you've read and thought in the past.

[rucky]

44. And how can you know what to read and how to think?

You could blindly trust the source that's being fed to you, but that's not a measure of intelligence.

[themadstork]

47. And how does one learn not to blindly trust the source?

Because they've gotten burned in the past.

[WinkyDink]

34. You have the cart before the horse. One cannot begin to think critically until one has something to

think ABOUT.

[wickerwoman]

63. +1. A major pet peeve of mine in school.

I went to a very progressive elementary school in the 1980s where everything was about exploring your feelings and forming your own opinion about things. And it would make us crazy because we didn't know enough *about* things to have an opinion about them.

Like in 3rd grade American history, the teacher would say "What do you think about Columbus?" before we knew anything about him.

If I was teaching critical thinking, I would teach 1.) what do we know about Columbus? what does the historical record say? 2.) what have other people argued about Columbus? give both sides. 3.) what do you think about Columbus?

Then kids can start to engage in critical thinking. Repeat with every topic until the kids are in middle or high school. Then set them on google to find the arguments for themselves.

Just asking kids to "think critically" when they don't have any foundational knowledge or any model of critical thinking is *such* a waste of time and often symptomatic of really lazy teaching.

[Codeine]

61. Critical and creative thinking is impossible

without a bedrock of learned and retained knowledge.

[spooked911]

17. I would say logic and analytical reasoning

among other things. But a good memory is important, no doubt.

[adigal]

86. The key to intelligence is thinking

You can have all the information in the world in your brain, but unless you can make connections, see relationships, analyze, synthesize and predict, you don't have intelligence. My parrot remembers lots and lots of words, but has limited intelligence.

I do think memorization is vital, however, because you need information to connect. Also, it is a great brain exercise, and anything that stretches the brain is good.

[grasswire]

5. I remember going to a parents' night at high school...

...this was in the late eighties. The most memorable part of the history teacher's presentation to the parents was him telling us that high school students shouldn't be asked to memorize the Gettysburg Address or the Preamble to the Constitution -- those were too much.

The Bushies used to call this "bigotry of low expectations."

[hayu_lol]

9. Memorization used to be instilled in very young children...

when they learned the nursery rhymes and other childhood readings...poetry and the like. Most of the countries doing better than the US learn to memorize characters instead of letters...their forms of writing demand memorization. Young music students are expected to handle memorization early on.

Memorizing prose/poetry in our country used to be a staple of childhood learning. Used to have regular competitions within classes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. How does memorizing the Gettysburg Address build deep understanding of any topic?

I'd love to know what my students are missing out on because I don't force them to memorize long passages.

Do tell.

[WinkyDink]

35. First of all, if you think the GA is a "long passage," um, yeah, okay. Secondly, it isn't like there

is something harmful with such memorization.

Thirdly, I don't believe for one minute there is a lot "more substantial" learning going on in a classroom of a teacher who deplores memorizing, i.e., committing to memory, anything.

And finally, to use your specific example, the GA shows the power and beauty of a brilliant SHORT speech with metaphor, parallelism, alliteration, and repetition for effect, in a specific historical context that da*n well ought to be memorized, because we have IGNORAMUSES WHO CANNOT PLACE THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR EVEN IN THE CORRECT CENTURY.

Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.

[Viking12]

50. For speech education, memorization dates back to Cicero (at least)

His pedagogic model was the memorization of great speeches, the byproduct of which is the internalization of form and structure. Not to suggest that it is necessarily the only nor the best approach but it does have some merit.

[grasswire]

57. 277 words is a long passage?

Wow.

I guess the world has changed. There used to be some merit readily apparent to all in the ability of a common citizen to recall phrases from the world's most important documents, especially regarding liberty and democracy -- to say nothing of the value assigned to the cultured and informed person in society.

I can't tell you how many times I have been gratified to recall phrases and fragments from literature and history and understood their context and meaning.

[msanthrope]

60. Yes, thank you--you wrote it better than I could have.

True education is being able to recall great literature and historical events as your life unfolds around you...giving what you quote to yourself richer meaning.

[adigal]

87. It stretches the brain - it needs to be stretched, just like

any other muscle. Also, it gives the kids some sense of what the GA was about. I am always stunned at the lack of basic knowledge my 12th graders have nowadays. Even ten years ago, they had more basic knowledge of the world. It is scary. They know how to google, but don't know what to google for.

[Confusious]

83. I learned the preamble from schoolhouse rock

still love it. makes me cry for some reason. I'm not a patriotic person either, that's the weird thing.

[a la izquierda]

8. But rote memorization...

really doesn't allow for critical thinking. I'm less concerned about my students memorizing dates than their ability to connect thematic dots, so to speak (I'm an historian).

[themadstork]

15. It doesn't allow for critical thinking? That's outlandish.

If I go and memorize a poem by rote am I suddenly unable to think critically about it?

Also I think "rote" memorization is something of a strawman. Certainly there's little value in merely learning to regurgitate something. The art of memory has always been a mix of explicit and implicit memory. You could memorize a prose essay because your goal was simply to regurgitate it, or you could memorize it because you've thought about it enough that memorization only made sense. Ideally memorization is a kind of thinking-through.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. No it doesn't

Memorization does not build critical thinking skills. Time spent memorizing teaches kids to memorize - that's it. And there is zero connection between the ability to memorize and critical thinking ability. Zero.

[themadstork]

23. Have any proof for that claim?

Because it goes against centuries of educational practice.

Claiming that rote memorization doesn't *allow* critical thinking is. . . well I can't even start to understand how someone would honestly think that. Go outside and memorize by rote the contents of a billboard. Are you now rendered incapable of writing a critical essay regarding the rhetorical strategies put to use in the billboard? Somehow I doubt it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. You made the claim. How about proving it?

I've taught for 31 years and every minute I would spend teaching rote memorization is a minute I could be teaching critical thinking.

It's one of the changes in educational practice since I was a student that I greatly appreciate.

[themadstork]

31. Try again. You and "a la ..." made the initial claim.

[wickerwoman]

65. At least for literature,

when I taught poetry at the college level, we required students to memorize at least two or three poems. It actually forces them to look at the language much more closely that they do just reading it (which is often quite superficial). To memorize it, they have to actual read it six or seven (or more times) and all of those repeat readings show them different levels they wouldn't have noticed otherwise.

Critical thinking is important too, but close reading is a necessary prerequisite for critical thinking and memorization (at least in literature) promotes close reading. How can you criticize something you don't really understand?

[PVnRT]

The fact that you are hung up over one word instead of the general point

tells us all we need to know about your critical thinking skills, that's for sure.

[themadstork]

30. Har Har Har, you're such a funny fella.

But seriously then, what's the more general argument? That memorization has no place within critical thinking? That one can learn how to think critically without developing a strong memory? Help me out here, because both of those are just as inane.

[PVnRT]

40. Memorization follows from thinking critically, not the other way around

at least in my experience. If you were right, then we would simply make chemistry students start memorizing the periodic table and expect them to be able to do lab experiments.

In my six years of engineering education, there was very little memorization. The focus was on applying equations and information, not being able to recite the equation for the Rayleigh number off the top of your head. So, a better statement is that memorization can be an aid to critical thinking, but it is not required.

[themadstork]

43. Well, that's much different than

"And there is zero connection between the ability to memorize and critical thinking ability. Zero. "

And a claim I find much more reasonable. Cheers.

[EFerrari]

48. I don't think the human memory knows why it is picking up information.

Memorization can follow from critical thinking but more often, it follows from repetition, doesn't it?

I didn't start memory training until my mid 20s or so and it was a great help to me to be able to use it efficiently in college. It was always good but I didn't know how to drive it very well. :)

[WinkyDink]

37. Oh, rilly? Then you would read the following HOW:

"there is zero connection between the ability to memorize and critical thinking ability. Zero."

Is there some ambiguity I'm missing? Some NON-claim to authority minus the attribution/support? This is a "general point" to you?

Wow.

[PVnRT]

39. OK, then

What is the connection between memorization and critical thinking? Neither you or your buddy in this thread have bothered to do anything more than proud2b did in trying to "prove" your point.

So, have it. Give some evidence instead of philosophical masturbation.

[themadstork]

49. Because we haven't made the absurd claim.

Merely questioning it. If we claimed that memorization makes watermelon taste better, yeah, then the burden of proof would be on us.

[a la izquierda]

76. Why don't you go to a college history class?

There is NO emphasis on memorizing in most courses. None. If students try and memorize every detail about history, they fail to see the larger picture. I have experience with this, as a student and a teacher. But that won't be good enough for you, so whatever. You probably do math or something.

[themadstork]

94. What are you talking about?

I studied English and Philosophy, and took plenty of history.

If there's a point that you're making here it escapes me, cloaked under thick condescension as it is.

Here's a shocker: many English classes include some form of memorization project to be completed at some point in the semester. You memorize a passage, you practice the delivery and inflection etc., and then you present it to the class. As someone else in this thread mentioned, memorizing something can amount to a kind of intense close-reading, because if you're memorizing it naturally and not "by rote" it requires a kind of thinking-through of the document. The poems and essays I have memorized have become a part of the texture of my life in a way that a work I've only read a few times never could.

Just because you find no value in memorization, that doesn't mean all humanities types have never found such value, and it definitely doesn't mean that said value doesn't exist.

[Goblinmonger]

51. Just like homework has centuries of practice

but there is no proven correlation between homework and understanding.

[Confusious]

84. you're being sarcastic right?

I learn by doing. doing means working on the problem. working on a problem means doing homework.

[Goblinmonger]

97. Find me a study that shows homework helps.

They aren't out there. Read some Alfie Kohn.

[Confusious]

103. I don't need a study

it's common sense. it helps me. it's helped everyone I've ever known.

You don't get to be good at something by not doing

asking for a study to prove it is the same thing as asking for a study to prove the sky is blue and plants are green.

[Goblinmonger]

104. There you go.

That's the way to develop best practices in education. Anecdotal evidence. How silly of me to try and look to research for methods that work.

And doing something is not the same as homework. You can practice in the classroom while the teacher is there to guide through problems. There are no studies that show that assigning homework helps in this process.

[Confusious]

106. Doing something is not the same as homework?

are you serious? That has to be the most laughable statement I have ever heard.

the "ancedotal evidence" is that people who do the homework get better grades then those who don't.

when was the last time you had homework? did you finish school at all? Or is this some sort of vendetta because you hated homework?

I again repeat, you want a study proving that the sky is blue and plants are green.

here:

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/03/homework.html

proof that the sky is blue and plants are green.

[Goblinmonger]

112. Positive correlation doesn't equal causation

But of course you did your statistics homework so you know that.

The best students are going to do the homework assigned to them because that is the type of person they are. They do it, they get good grades, there is a correlation. Is there a study that controls for those that were getting good grades doing it not doing it?

There is no indication that the work has to be assigned to students to do on their own for there to be a positive result. They can do the repetitions in the classroom and still gain the practice you think is vital.

And I am a teacher for the past 20 years and I guarantee I have read more on the subject than you have. Check out Alfie Kohn.

[Confusious]

113. I gave you a study, you ignored it

You want me to read about kohn,I looked him up. My opinion? A contrarian looking to make a name for himself.

One can watch the teacher do differential equations on the board. Doesn't mean they'll be able to do them themselves.

[Goblinmonger]

114. I didn't ignore it.

I read it and discussed the fact that it only shows a correlation and not causation. You ignored that response.

"Contrarian"? He looks at the "studies" that people use to say that homework is good and explains why they are not doing that. Dismiss that if you want, but that is usually called "speaking truth to power" here on DU.

Why do you have to do the differential equations on your own outside of the classroom? Why can't you work on some in the classroom and have the teacher there to explain where you have gone wrong or what you did right? I have never said that practicing something is wrong but that the concept of homework doesn't necessarily meet that need. If you are doing differential equations at home and you are doing them wrong, what good does that do you? And if you do them correctly, what's the need to do a homework assignment on them? Teachers assign homework not because they think it through but because that is the way it always has been done. Kohn explains that there are no studies which show a benefit to that. Yours only shows correlation, which I explained, and I also showed what could be the 3rd element that makes that correlation spurious. Good students are generally smart and do well on the work and they will do the homework because that is the type of student they are. Bad students don't do homework.

[LanternWaste]

99. Which is the same as saying there is no correlation between practicing a thing

Which is the same as saying there is no proven correlation between practicing a thing and getting better at a thing... :shrug:

[Goblinmonger]

105. Practicing does not need to equal homework

There is not study that shows that the assigning of homework actually helps. You can practice in class. Where if you are getting it wrong you can have help rather than continue to do it wrong on your own.

[Odin2005]

67. Centuries of authoritarian educational practices, you mean.

[WinkyDink]

36. Because you say so? Yep, no critical thinking going on in the 20th Century's public schools.

[adigal]

88. I disagree - it works the brain

And regardless, we need facts to analyze and synthesize. I must say that I would be very upset with any teacher who discounted any memorization. I think it does the kids an injustice.

[a la izquierda]

75. I didn't say memory in general.

Learn how to read. I said rote memorization. And I'm also talking about a very specific topic I study. A particular date is less important than understanding the period in which something important happened. History rarely occurs on one day.
That said, there ARE dates my students MUST memorize.

[WinkyDink]

33. Really? Because the "theme" of war is the same for, say, 1863 and 1914?

[a la izquierda]

74. Where in the hell did I say that?

Oh wait, I totally didn't. Dates are important in history, duh. But I don't need my students to know ever single date ever deemed important by someone. And considering what I study, sometimes dates are wrong or generally unimportant.
But regional themes ARE often similar, depending upon when/where one looks.

[EFerrari]

45. Memorization provides facts that may then be manipulated

eg., used to reason -- two complementary operations.

[Recursion]

54. Rote memorization is a pre-requisite for critical thinking (nt)

[woo me with science]

85. Critical thinking depends on the mastery of a base of facts from which to reason.

Higher-level learning and critical thinking are dependent on the mastery of a base of facts from which to reason. Not just ACCESS to facts....MASTERY of facts. Children need a mastery of number facts, not just the ability to look up the answer on a calculator, in order to understand and manipulate numbers in their heads at a level that allows them to reach the next level of mathematical reasoning. Children need a mastery of basic historical facts and timeline in order to make historical comparisons and see patterns, trajectories, and parallels in history. You do not reach higher-level reasoning in ANY subject area without attaining a facility with lower-level material that allows your mind to compare, contrast, juxtapose, and build higher-level concepts.

[phantom power]

10. I half agree with you. Memory is an important tool and it can be improved with practice.

It is only one component of what we broadly call "intelligence," and arguably not the most important one.

Still, I do think memory has become a bit under-rated in this age of google. Sometimes, it's just most effective to internalize information. I can't use my intelligence on stuff that isn't at least temporarily sitting in my brain.

:dunce:

[grasswire]

11. do they teach multiplication tables anymore?

I wonder.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Yes but first we teach the process

They need to understand WHY 2x3=6 before they can easily memorize it. Once they understand the process, memorization is a much easier task.

[Recursion]

55. Some do; others of us think that's backwards (nt)

[Dappleganger]

109. Both process and memorization of tables are important.

Sometimes I help tutor at the elementary school our kids used to go to and it's amazing how much more of a challenge it is when the child never got his tables memorized in the earlier grades--you can really tell. They understand the concept but adding the memorization afterwards helps them keep it at their fingertips and leads to more self-confidence (this is 4th grade).

[OHdem10]

13. If you do not teach childrend memorization skills, these are the

kids who will never learn to think on their feet.

You have to have knowledge stored in a memory bank
in order to reply quickly and smartly.

For over 30 years memorization skills have not been
emphasized and 30 years there has been a decline
in school results. Some parents make their children
do memorization exercises reading history at home
because they know it is not emphasized in school.
They also make their children learn yes by rote
the multiplication tables at home. These are the
people who on their first job can look at a spread
sheet and immediately pick up errors.

You can tell I never bought into the theory. The
child does not have to memorize. They can just
look info up as the need it. Sounds good but
try looking everything up in the real world. You
lose time while someone else moves ahead.

It might work for the exceptionally gifted children.
The highly intelligent appear to grasp and hold the
information in their brain as part of their gift.

The great masses of us are average and above average.
We need help with the memorization skills.

Blaming the teachers for all education wrongs is
immoral. There is enough blame to go around.

[ecstatic]

20. Interesting

I remember time table drills in elementary school. I wonder what, if any, role that played in my success in math.

[themadstork]

29. Math is a great example

It's impossible to "think critically" within the higher realms of math unless you have memorized (by rote or however) the various theorems and strategies you learned as you were forming your fundamental knowledge-base within those boring calc 1-3 classes, and so on.

[WinkyDink]

38. That you don't need either fingers or machine to know 7X9. Or how to recognize angles. Or determine

mileage. Or prices.

Etc.

[themadstork]

22. I agree

I've been naturally blessed with a weirdly good memory, usually only needing one read-through or one listening to remember the material. This made school so easy that I spent almost my entire 1st-12th grade education incredibly bored and, later, depressed. Memory is important because any kind of original critical thought requires a fresh heaping knowledge base (I think of it as a compost heap of the mind), and for the purposes of pure cognition it is more more helpful if these things are bouncing around in your mind as you think, rather than simply being "where you know to find them," which does have its place.

Basically I think thinking is a dialectical process, and the more things you've got in your head as "fuel" for that inner conversation the more refined/subtle/complex your own thinking-process will be.

[yawnmaster]

24. memory is complex. I don't think memorizing facts or memorizing passages of text is critical to...

intelligence. If so, then I can maintain my intelligence by carrying around my ipad, on which I've loaded tons of stuff that I can call up when needed. What is important is to learn the process of critical thinking.
Now...that also takes memory as the process must be remembered.
What we need education and intelligence for is to make decisions in our lives.
Facts are one input, so we do need memory for that, but with today's technology we can store facts "off-line", but we need to know what facts we need and how to use them. That is what needs to be taught.

Of course, in our present education system, memorization will lead to success by the metrics of success that the schools use, tests and grades, which are quite often a regurgitation of facts, especially in k-12.
Realistically, in today's world, where good grades are needed for success and being accepted into college, yes, memorization is needed, but for success out of school (unless you make a living being a Jeopardy contestant), reasoning and critical thinking skills become much more important.

[WatsonT]

25. I don't think memory is the key to intelligence, if so computers would have surpassed us long ago

in intelligence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Bingo

[WinkyDink]

41. The human memory is not computer-like; it perforce includes context and extraneous thoughts.

Sorry; bad analogy. (Don't think of the word "elephant.") (HA!)

[yawnmaster]

28. One other thing I want to add. From experience. Memorization can be very useful...

and it should be required.
But...
It is not the actual recall of facts that is useful, but the following...
1. learning the process of memorization.
2. learning to deal with focus, which is required during memorization.
3. goal setting and the rewards associated with it. Memorizing Hamlet's soliloquy may not help much in life (yes there are useful situations for knowing it) but focusing on learning it, setting the goal, achieving the goal, understanding ones limitations and working around the problem are all very useful.
4. handling (sometimes) unpleasant tasks.
5. setting priorities (study the state capitals or play WOW, for instance).
6. understanding success and failure.

[WinkyDink]

42. I like not counting my fingers when I want to add, subtract, etc. Or being unable to use a metaphor

I once read, or, indeed, allude to any work of literature to enhance my speech or writing.

A man's reach.....

See? You GOT that. How? BECAUSE YOU ONCE MEMORIZED IT.

[yawnmaster]

73. more important to know how and when to use a metaphor than to have your brain loaded with ...

metaphors that you might use someday.
even better than using a metaphor you once read is to create your own.

also, mathematics recitation is more than just rote memory.

[WinkyDink]

32. Because Administrators take courses that tell them it is BAAAD, and then Admins FORCE teachers to

eschew, under threat of poor evaluations, requiring memorization.

I speak from experience.

[midnight]

46. K&R.... Tell me what is the best way to teach memory....

I thought it was just repetition?

[themadstork]

52. There are a lot of theories on memory,

And even more mnemonic strategies.

An interesting psychological theory I read about a while ago suggested that we tend to remember most vividly what we find most noteworthy, or curious, or shocking. I'm not explaining this well. But the gist was that those who tend to remember a bunch of stuff do so, usually, because they find a bunch of stuff about daily life to be noteworthy. And they maintain this practice over long periods of time. And on an intuitive level it makes sense: if one drifts through the day in a sort of haze, noticing only that which is especially novel or vivid, one won't remember much of the day; on the other hand, someone who is constantly amazed/fascinated/struck by even the smallest things will begin to hoard in their minds quite a lot of stuff. The more I deliberately test out this idea, the more it seems to be very true of my own individual experience. One week I decided to pay frantic, intense attention to the state of my kitchen counter just after I pour my coffee. (I have a broken pot and the coffee almost always spills as I pour.) Even weeks later now I can remember with unusual detail the details of each spill: the shape each spill took, what I used to clean them up, how I was thinking/feeling at the time of the spill, whether the sun had started coming up, etc. etc. If I were any good at painting I could almost do a replication of each scene.

For me, in my own head, remembering things well seems to involve learning to observe things with the extreme intent to remember them. It's a different mode of observing, and can be taxing. But one gets better with practice, like anything else.

[Uben]

56. With the internet, there are many sources.....

....but, more than repetition, the way you store information is the key.

[ellie]

53. I forget why.

[LanternWaste]

58. There are idiot-savants with eidetic memory.

"The key to intelligence is a good memory..."

There are idiot-savants with eidetic memory. It would appear the one does not necessarily follow the other... :shrug:

[Odin2005]

68. Yup. I have eidetic memory and it has very little to do with intelligence.

I remember things extremely easily, but it requires my intelligence to be understood.

[themadstork]

96. There are different kinds of memorization. Savant-memory is more akin to memorizing by rote, IMO.

Ever had a pop song you can sing by heart despite never purposefully setting out to memorize it?

[LanternWaste]

98. I'm sure we can access paperwork relevant to the chemical processes

"Savant-memory is more akin to memorizing by rote, IMO...."

I'm sure we can access peer-reviewed paperwork relevant to the chemical processes of memory rather than relying on an "IMO" if we actually wish to know one way or the other.

[themadstork]

102. That'd be cool

But the two concepts are basically the same. Savants can spit out the info but don't really understand it. The person who memorized by rote focuses only on spitting out the words with no deeper concern for meaning or context.

[Odin2005]

64. I think we already have too much rote memorization in schools.

Kids learn and remember information best when they DISCOVER answers, not by being told X is correct and Y is incorrect. The former also teachers critical thinking skills while the later teaches blind faith.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. The key to intelligence isn't memory.

It's useful for getting good grades, however. Can you teach it? I dunno.

[robinlynne]

69. I think when you say memory, you really mean learning. hence the dispute here.

[cali]

70. I don't think the key to intelligence is a good memory. I think it's curiosity

I know some brilliant people who don't have fantastic memories- or rather their memories are sort of selective.

[Yavin4]

71. Computer Programming and Memorization

I am a very amateur programmer, and I know the basics for creating code. However, there are literally tons of pre-written code libraries out there that I can use in my code. If I tried to remember every code library out there, I would spend the rest of my life doing so without ever writing a program.

It's better that I know software design patterns and fill in the code when I need it.

[hunter]

72. It's not so much the crap I can't remember that causes me trouble...

... it's the crap I can't forget.

Every waking hour we are blasted with a fire hose of sensory inputs. It's got to be sorted out some way and most of it rejected. I'm fairly sure sleeping is a secondary process for disposing of sticky crap that really shouldn't have survived the initial rejection. So called "ear worms" are not the worst of it. Political and religious memes can be toxic, and then there's all that PTSD stuff...

I had a physics professor who prided himself in writing exam questions you could only answer if you understood the fundamentals. You could memorize the whole damned book word for word, equation for equation, diagram and diagram, but if you didn't understand it you'd be toast. For a couple of exams that year he'd fill the entire chalk board with equations and constants and everything else you might need to pass his exams, but if you didn't understand an exam question you were still lost. There was some little part of every question that required a bit of "aha!" and if you hadn't experienced a similar sort of "aha!" doing the homework, or god forbid, you hadn't done the homework, there wasn't any chance you'd be getting enough fresh "ahas!" to complete the exam in the time allotted. And sure enough, if you did "get it" you didn't have to look at the chalk board.

Halfway through these exams the smart asses would be dropping off their papers alongside the poor souls who were abandoning the exam as their dreams of being doctors or scientists evaporated. As was promised at the beginning of the school year a third of the class did not make it through to the end. I got to be a smart ass one or two times, when the science happened to coincide with my own interests, but for most of the year I struggled with the bulk of the herd.

Memorization by itself isn't much of anything. It's just a chalkboard covered with equations. A person could memorize a thousand digits of pi without knowing what pi is. 3.1415926... so what? But an engineer who knows what pi is can take a crass approximation of pi like 355/113 or even a mark on a slide rule to set up precision machinery or calculate a spacecraft orbit.

I used to work for a guy who did precision machine work. Watching him work it was like he'd memorized trig tables or he had a calculator in his head. I think it's more complicated than that. We all have very complex calculators in our heads -- most of us can walk around on two feet, ride a bicycle, or catch something that's tossed to us. But even these skills we had to learn, and then practice, practice, practice. Setting up machine tools is a similar process, eventually it becomes part of you.

More important than memory, is finding that incentive to practice. For most kids rote memorization is going to be a disincentive for learning. Memory skills have to be developed in other ways. For me it was technology. I wanted to know how things like motors and radios worked. I memorized a lot of stuff to gain that understanding. For other kids it might be drama. They'll memorize their lines for a play. And so on...

[LWolf]

77. Memorizing is the lowest level of learning.

At least, according to Bloom's.

It IS a foundation for what follows, in some cases.

In all cases, it's not the memorization but the ability to think about information, to use it in a variety of ways, that is crucial.

I've always thought thinking skills were as crucial as the "3Rs," and wished they would be taught universally K-12.

Having taught at one school that did so in my long career, I've seen the difference.

[pipi_k]

90. I think so too...

My dogs have the daily routine memorized. They remember certain words that mean things. That doesn't mean they're intelligent.

What does make them intelligent is their ability to figure things out on their own. To make up their own little games or to observe and act on their observations.

This is what I think is intelligence...one of them has a toy the other one wants. Instead of fighting over it, the one who wants the toy creates a diversion by running out into the yard (fenced) to bark at an imaginary squirrel. The other one hears the ruckus and runs out, at which point the first one runs back in and snaps up the toy.

They're never boring...

:)

[themadstork]

95. And yet, it is a kind of learning. . .

And why wouldn't one make use of it whenever doing so is helpful?

I don't mean to say it's the be-all/end-all, but merely one of the tools in a learner's kit. I don't understand where those who want to dispose of it entirely are coming from, really. Seems like an overreaction, possibly to the emphasis on "rote" memorization by someone in their past. (I see rote as being memorization without understanding, or sometimes even context. True memorization has a cognitive element, where you memorize it by becoming "one" with it, as hokey as that sounds. It's more akin to mastery than rote memorization, and its benefits can be quite abundant, in my experience.)

Also, what's Bloom's?

[LWolf]

111. I agree with you somewhat;

see my response # 110, just below.

Bloom's is the taxonomy of learning created by an educational psychologist, Benjamin Bloom, in the 1950s. Bloom said that intellect is developed through six domains, sequentially, from lower order thinking skills to higher. It's recently been revised from it's original form; the "new" Bloom's looks like this:




Here are a few links for more info:

http://www.odu.edu/educ/roverbau/Bloom/blooms_taxonomy.htm
http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html
http://www.officeport.com/edu/blooms.htm

[EFerrari]

108. I've always enjoyed having a "good" memory

and even more so when I was taught how to use it, how to over-learn material until it was mine.

When I was younger, if I went through a psych chapter at least twice, for example, I retained a visual image of each page and could mentally skim through the text until I reread the paragraph with the answer to my test question if it didn't come to mind immediately. It was sort of cool.

[LWolf]

110. I have a good memory, too.

It's been useful. I used to read, re-read, and then read the chapter and my notes into a cassette and listen to it in the car when I was in college. It IS important; as mentioned, it's the foundation for many things. It doesn't define learning, though. It's simply one part.

We know that much of the content we teach kids won't be retained. To retain information, you have to use it regularly. What isn't used is lost. That's why, even though I was doing great at the time, I can't speak Spanish, French, or American Sign Language. I had a year of each, but no one to talk to on a daily basis when class was over.

What IS retained is the ability to reason, to seek out and analyze information when needed.

Thankfully, we also retain some of what we memorize: math facts, spelling, etc.. Those things we use regularly.

Some things are remembered because of the "drill and kill" repetition used for rote memorization. Some are remembered because of emotional tags. Tag information with emotion, and we remember it. My students will remember more about what they learned during a simulation, which they enjoy, than they do working through a textbook. They will remember more about an era from reading historical fiction, accurate or not.

[MilesColtrane]

78. I'd like to see mandatory courses in Logic and Debate.

[Javaman]

79. I agree and...

what was I saying?

[Octafish]

80. When you want to control people, keeping minds dull is a real no-brainer.

We've always been at war with Eastasia.

[pipi_k]

89. I do not agree...

with your first sentence that the key to intelligence is a good memory.

Intelligence isn't merely knowing a bunch of facts and being able to access them at any time. And there are all types of intelligence anyway.

My memory has started to fail, yet I still consider myself to be a reasonably intelligent person.

OTOH, I worked with a group of developmentally disabled adults whose intelligence levels were maybe the same as 8 year old kids. A couple of them had almost phenomenal memories. One in particular could rattle off the names of songs and the groups/people who performed them with truly amazing accuracy even though he couldn't remember to tuck in his own shirt or tie his shoes.

So, yes, memory helps us retain information and facts, but it doesn't necessarily make us more intelligent.

[white_wolf]

91. I disagree with the OP.

It seems to me that the problem with schools today is that all they are teaching is memorization and regurgitation of information for tests. It is far more important to be able to apply information and critical thinking skills than simply to remember things.

[Uben]

92. I think you are talking about repetition......

...and not how people actually store information for recall. If students were taught how to store information for recall, all the repetition would not be necessary. It would benefit them in every other subject taught. Dates and places for history, formulas and tables for math, etc.

I agree with you that teaching to a test is not learning. But, critical thinking is not possible without good memory skills.

[white_wolf]

93. Your right, sorry for the misinterpretation..

[TK421]

100. I agree with your OP 100%....in fact, I think that....wait, what was this about again?

[ReggieVeggie]

101. I think I took a memory class in Junior High

can't remember for sure, though :D

[Dappleganger]

107. Early grades tend to use more rote memory due to a child's learning growth...

as they grow older then they can delve more into logic, etc. One problem I've noticed is that many students never kept up with learning the basic skills through quick recall and struggle w/the small stuff while stuck on a problem which requires deep thinking. The small stuff never became "automatic" for them so when they move on to the upper levels they really do struggle.

That's not to say that hands-on learning of concepts isn't vital while they are young or older, just that practice of those basics (math problems, verb conjugations, vocabulary) are vital to make the hard stuff easier as they progress. Some teachers in the past (like when I was a kid) didn't use anything BUT rote memory w/out explaining concepts and that will just kill a love of learning. Balance is important.

[Duer 157099]

115. Memorization is to the brain, as push-ups are to the body

It is exercise, plain and simple. You want a healthy organ? Exercise it.