The Problem Now Is People Vested in Obama's Failure

[Solomon]

Some people are so vested in believing Obama is a failure, that no matter what he says or does, it is spun as failure just so people can be "right."

If he says he's gutting social security, then by God, you can bet your house on what he said. But if he says something good, then his words don't matter anyway, it's just a speech.

Surreal.

[robinlynne]

1. bullshit. We want our country back. Obama is just a man. This is about much more..

Right now the R party represents the extreme extreme right, and the Dem party is representing big corporations. The idea of democracy is that the people should be represented. the speech was wonderful. I loved what he said. But so far, he does not do what he promises. except for being bi-partisan, which pushed our country further down the creek. Bush et al needed to go to jail to fix our country. His tax cuts should never have been renewed. There was NO public option in the bill, remember? and on and on.

[leftstreet]

5. +1

This should be its own OP

:thumbsup:

[Solomon]

9. Exhibits 1 and 2

LOL

[myrna minx]

6. Thank you for this post. +1 n/t

[MineralMan]

10. You demonstrate the OP's point. Great job, there.... (nt)

[hfojvt]

16. demonstrate the point how?

By remembering the many times Obama has already failed? That proves that we somehow want him to keep failing so we can later say "I told you so."?

Personally, I would have loved to see Obama not throw me under the bus in December. That was when I finally unsubscribed from his mailing list.

[Hawkowl]

31. Fool me once...

Shame on you, fool me twice.... Fool me three times and you can go fuck yourself. I don't know how many good speeches Obama has given. I do know his actions are not even in the same universe. So, this is Obama's last chance to follow through on his progressive rhetoric before, I think, the left tells him to go fuck himself. The ball is in his court. He doesn't have to succeed but he does have to try.

[StarburstClock]

11. Well said.

Obama's speeches have a long history of being nothing but lies. What's surreal to me is that people still believe the speeches.

[ecstatic]

12. Obama could have vetoed the bill, and there would be no health

care reform right now. There was a roadblock in Congress--the votes for the public option JUST.WERE.NOT.THERE. People with pre-existing conditions would be shut out. I guess you don't have a pre-existing condition so you couldn't care less. I am glad that something was passed, something that can be improved upon in years to come (just like SS and Medicare were improved upon).

[robinlynne]

33. How would we know? All the single-payer proponents were lcoked out of the room, physically, during t

the discussion. So we will never know what we could have done.

[robinlynne]

34. or Obama could have pushed hardfor single payer, then comprising to a strong public option.

[ecstatic]

36. He explained many times why single payer was not possible

without an economic collapse. The current structure is 1/6 of our economy.

[robinlynne]

37. economic collapse? are you kidding? It would save health care, and the economy!

Look at what we spend on health care,and what europeans spend, and how much health care they get. economic collapse? nope. I dont recall anyone ever saying that.

[ecstatic]

47. He didn't quite word it that way, but he said if we were starting from

scratch, single payer would be the best way. Obviously we're too far gone as far as greed in this country to just suddenly switch to SP overnight. It's like switching to communism overnight. It just would not work. Stuff like that has to be done gradually.

[robinlynne]

50. Unfortunately it can not be done gradually. not while the supreme court hands our

elections to big corporations. What I said was if he had PUSHED HARD for single-payer, we could now have a strong public option. He PROMISED us a strong public option. Just as today he promised us he would tax the rich if re-elected. Since he pushes hard for the middle, not the left, we get in between the middle and the far right. the right does not play around. they fight. If our side (in this case Obama) fought equally hard, the compromise would be a real compromise.

[ecstatic]

55. He also promised he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class

Unfortunately, both options were tied together in the bill congress presented him with. He had to choose whether to raise taxes on everyone and deny unemployment benefit extensions, or to cut taxes for everyone (including the middle class) and extend unemployment benefits. As far as the public option goes, I thought it was a great idea, but it simply didn't pass. I'm not sure why this is hard to understand.

[robinlynne]

59. Congress, which was a Dem congress at that time, gets just as much of my

criticism. Especially because there were 13 Congressional races where the Democrats requested investigations of the elections, and Congress let the repugs have those seats. I do not hold Obama alone, one man, responsible, believe me.

[ecstatic]

60. I agree with you there. They were too concerned with having 60

votes and avoiding a filibuster.

[robinlynne]

53. I want to say it is a pleasure to have a civil conversation with a DUer who thinks quite differently

than I do. This is how we learn. I've never looked at things form your perspective. I always assumed you need to go way far to the left to get anywhere near the "middle". It is how I think. It is interesting to hear your perspective.

for example, people here bash peta. but if it were not for PETA, there would be no awareness of the things done to animals. Even I once wore fur. Now I get it. if we started that specific discussion in the middle, there would have been no change. there was a gradual societal change about wearing fur only BECAUSE of the big left-wing push.

[robinlynne]

39. Single payer is very possible. It is really the only good solution.

[ecstatic]

49. Again, it would have to be a gradual shift. Can't be done overnight.

There would need to be a generation of young doctors who go into medicine for the right reasons, hospitals that go into for the right reasons, etc. Right now everyone wants their profit. The HC law is a good start and maybe one day we'll get SP, but no time soon.

[treestar]

45. No it does not work that way

This is not haggling for some small item at a bazaar in the Middle East.

Those who were against a PO would not agree to it merely because someone started with SP. They are not that stupid.

[robinlynne]

51. umm. remember Dems were in the majority then AND when he kept the Bush tax cuts!

[driver8]

38. another +1.

Actions speak louder than words...

[Pirate Smile]

2. Yep. They want to justify what they've said for the past few days (or years) so everything has to be

twisted to make it a negative.

[SidDithers]

3. K&R...nt

Sid

[MineralMan]

4. So it seems. (nt)

[ecstatic]

7. k&r. nt

[MercuryRepeater]

8. they have wasted so much of their time bashing the man, they can't stand seeing it to go to waste.

it's utterly pathetic.

[socialist_n_TN]

13. You could be right because people WILL do that..........

That's one reason the RW is so strong. People don't like to admit that they were wrong. But I don't see a whole lot of that in this case.

What I DO see, is people who are skeptical of Obama's resolution and that includes me. I didn't see the speech, but MOST people (even critics) seem to think it was a good one. So, great. We all know the man can make a speech when he wants to. That's nothing new.

Mostly what I see on here is that we want to see ACTION, not just words. And for me personally, I'll take him just continuing to stand UP for the average worker, EVEN IF IT LOOKS LIKE HE CAN'T GET WHAT HE WANTS ACCOMPLISHED! Just STAND and USE that bully pulpit. Even if he loses, as long as he's standing strong, he'll win me back.

[Scurrilous]

14. K & R

:thumbsup:

[hfojvt]

15. I am not sure that what he said was good

I read a story from the media, which said some good things, but then it included some troublesome lines like "Obama used a lot of ideas from the Catfood commission". Well, as I remember it, there were not very many good ideas that came out of that commission. I would say that commission was just barely better than the Ryan plan. Then it also said that 3/4 of the deficit reduction comes from spending cuts. And without details, that seems kinda troubling.

Third, about tax increases, which Obama spoke in favor of. Well, Boehner is already promising to fight that. Since Obama surrendered back in December when he had the upper hand, how can he win this fight now when Boehner has the upper hand? Further, since he was too chickenshit to fight in December, what is supposed to make me think he is gonna fight like hell now? Obama already undermined his argument by agreeing to the surrender in December, and he has already shown that he has a glass jaw, so my money is on Boehner for the thrilla in Manila.

[Shiver]

42. According to Paul Krugman

there was "Hardly any Simpson-Bowles".

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/13/the-budget-speech/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

[JVS]

17. When he says he'll do something good, we know he'll be opposed, see post #12

When he says he'll do something bad, who can stop him?

[Wait Wut]

18. Today is a good day...

...to ignore them. There are too many positive journals and comments to let the negativity get you down. I've even been impressed with some of the "Obama doubters" (or whatever it is they want to be called) saying they were impressed and encouraged with the speech.

So, chin up and let's celebrate the brief moment of semi-unity.

:party:

P.S. Rec!

[malaise]

19. +1,000

True word

[SDuderstadt]

20. I swear...

if Obama said, "I like peach pie the best", some here would respond, "so, you hate apple pie!".

This is really getting old. Great OP.

[walldude]

23. Oh please if Obama shot Unicorns on the White House Lawn

you'd be here defending him against the horrible Unicorn Revolution.

It's a two way street, and your side is just as bad as mine tough guy.

[SDuderstadt]

26. "Tough guy"?

I have no idea what your point is especially since unicorns are mythical.

Have a nice rant.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[walldude]

21. And Obama holds no responsibility for this attitude?

He's not broken any promises? Made any bad appointments? Pushed any shitty policies?


What do you expect? People are tired of being burned.

Yeah it was a great speech, and if he fights like he says he will then he'll get my help in the next election. If he doesn't he won't. Pretty simple.

[JoePhilly]

25. We just had more than a week here on DU, during which ...

we enjoyed an endless stream of OPs DECLARING that Obama would announce significant cuts to Social Security and medicare today.

Article after article used to support this prediction.

Reply after reply that Obama was evil for making these cuts.

And now that it did not happen ... "its just words" ... and the outrage machine is already moving on.

[csziggy]

46. Times like this are when I wonder how many paid trolls there are here

NOT pointing fingers at any one poster and there are enough issues on which I have been disappointed about in the last two years. But the reflexive anti-Obama sentiments seem far too scripted and too aligned with the Right Wing talking points for me to believe that all of them are just discouraged liberals.

[Hoyt]

52. Exactly. I'm still looking for guy that owes me $20 when Obama didn't slash SS in State of Union.

[JoePhilly]

56. +100

[lamp_shade]

22. Big fat K&R

[FrenchieCat]

24. Folks use cynicism as an excuse not to have anything good to say,

and even less to have to do.

That's key.
Sitting on one's behind and criticizing is easy.
Having to get out there and support someone you've been
talking about like a dog; well that's harder.

So the question becomes what do folks truly care most about;
seeing Obama fail, or seeing what he has proposed come to fruition....?
cause with a Republican led house, he certainly can't do it on his lonesome.....

in the very same way that Republicans wouldn't have won 2010 without the Tea Party
galvanizing "R" voters, Obama can't get her done without the voices of us the people.

If one is willing to be cynical to the point of not planning on showing any support,
and instead chooses to continue tearing up whatever Obama says or does,
then yep....we lose big; but the onus will have to rest with those who believe that
endless negative analysis makes up for action; it doesn't. In fact, at some point,
it becomes the main reason Republicans get their way, because we simply weren't there
when we could have been.

[Solomon]

30. My god, don't you dare say that we the peole have to do anything.

They don't make a flack jacket strong enough to withstand the vitriol if you say we have to do more than talk. I was told that that is making impossible demands!

[mmonk]

27. Sorry but the past actions that have pissed me off weren't a dream or illusion.

[markpkessinger]

48. + a Trillion! n/t

[WilliamPitt]

28. Good Lord.

(facepalm)

[Solomon]

35. LOL

Hi Will. :hi: You excepted of course. LOL Should have said "some" people.

But look at the threads that are claiming that he said he's cutting social security anyway! If you go back and look at what they said earlier, that's what they were declaring, so by God, that's what Obama said, even though most of us didn't hear that.

[jberryhill]

44. He'll never support ending DADT either

And certainly not by the end of last year.

[Renew Deal]

29. You're right and it's been that way for a long time

for some people.

[EFerrari]

32. My world doesn't revolve around Barack Obama, I'm sorry.

I'm not vested in his failure. I'm worried about my future, our future.

[Cameron27]

58. Amen

Again. No one's vested in his failure. Expect liberals to support liberal principles and reject RW ones, it really is that simple.

[fascisthunter]

40. easy champ... it was a fricking speech

he's said a lot in speeches. And people aren't vested in Obama's failure(except for the right wing), they are vested in his success to represent them, and if he doesn't but gives more to the rich, you damn right people will have an issue with him. You can characterize us all you want, but you are making a big mistake in underestimating our criticism as just being some weird fixation in hoping he fails.

[StarburstClock]

41. I don't understand how numerous speeches that turned out to be untrue seem "surreal"

We still have torture camps, still have 2+ wars, still don't have the public option, still have no accountability for war criminals, still have criminal banks committing massive and numerous frauds: nothing's been done about any of it. In fact, they're even worse. That's reality.

If reality is surreal to you then I suggest you read some George Orwell.

[H2O Man]

43. In 2008,

many people's expectations were raised. President Obama has not, for a variety of reasons, fulfilled those expectations. Hence, one group of DUers tend to express disappointment, and to have doubts even after such a solid speech.

Also, a some people did not support Obama in 2008, and post things that confirm their low expectations for him.

I am not particularly pleased with President Obama's performance in office, but believe that people have the obligation to pressure the administration (and Congress) for positive actions, and to support efforts by the President (and Congress) to institute those positive changes.

[Solomon]

54. Agreed.

Some people see the glass half full and some see it half empty.

[H2O Man]

57. Earlier this afternoon,

on another thread, I read where a friend wrote he voted for Barack Obama in 2008, so that he wouldn't have to fight today. While I understand this, I disagree strongly. I voted for Barack Obama in 2008, with every intention of continuing to fight -- intending to fight for what I expected to be a full eight years of the Obama Presidency.

There are two potential benefits in having a democratic President (or, member of Congress, governor, etc): first, to have an elected representative who tends to share your values; and second, to have an elected representative who listens to and respects the issues that you fight for.

[Rex]

61. Of course you leave out the other side of the coin.

The OTHER problem is that people are (like you) so wrapped up in believing anything Obama does is positive and right...no matter if it is true or not. Those people are just as big a problem (like you) as the people that deny Obama does anything right.

Thanks for being biased toward one end...it lets everyone see how one sided you are in your ironic statement. AND how both sides need to find a door back to reality, hopefully soon.

[eridani]

63. He didn't say he was gutting Social Security--but he didn't take it off the table either

So here’s the truth. Around two-thirds of our budget is spent on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and national security.

:hurts::spank:::banghead: Buuuullllllllssshhhiiiiiiiiittttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Social Security is not NOT NOT part of the general budget! If it is, could you kindly explain why that and Medicare withholding are listed separately on my W-2? Anyone?

But we must do it without putting at risk current retirees, the most vulnerable, or people with disabilities; without slashing benefits for future generations; and without subjecting Americans’ guaranteed retirement income to the whims of the stock market.

Starting to get scary. No "cuts" for current retirees, and no "slashing" for future beneficiaries. Meaning that you will seek the middle ground between Repuke "slashing" and the ZERO cuts that all people deserve to get because they've been paying in all their lives? To a fucking SPARATE FUND? Why not even a single reference to raising the FICA cap, which would totally eliminate the need for any "cuts" at all, not to mention "slashings"? And no, since not even Bush with both houses of Congres