It is instructive, I tell you.

[Bonobo]

The Japanese situation has become an interesting example (to me) of the problem with the way Americans see "issues" and choose sides.

As it currently stands, in the minds of many DU'ers, posting an article about how the situation in Japan is "not as bad", "stabilizing" or "getting better" has become the same thing as supporting the nuclear industry AND posting an article about the inevitable death of Japan, atomic explosions and poisoning of the Earth forever is considered to be an "anti-nuclear" position.


The way these 2 groups have divided or are perceived to have divided -even that 2 groups exist and must struggle against each other is EMBLEMATIC of an issue, a problem with the way Americans exist in their political world.

They tend to see an issue as having exactly 2 sides, with little room for grey areas and they feel the obligation is to jump on one side and destroy the other side.

It is, I believe, an artifact that comes from the 2-party system and I think it is very limiting and will keep America stuck where it is.

Give it some thought people. Something isn't right about it.

Ask yourself. Does it make sense that people unrec anything even mildly hopeful about Japanese nuclear crisis as if it threatens their political position?

What is behind that rock? It deserves to be unturned and gazed at. It is ugly.

[JuniperLea]

1. I dunno...

I feel firmly planted in the grey area of that particular issue.

People unrec for many reasons... I suspect a lot of it has to do with feudal behaviors between individuals. I for one will be very happy to see that system go buh bye.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. For one, I really hope things are not just stabilizing, but getting to a point where cleanup can

begin.

You are right; things here ARE extremely polarized, not just evidenced by the reactions of people on DU, but also by the reactions of the professional (mostly right wing) pundit class- Ann Coulter, for instance, screeching about how radiation is 'good for you'.

You have to take into account a couple things; first, people here are used to being lied to, used to assuming they're being lied to, and most people on DU are aware that there are VERY well-funded interests putting out disinformational noise on everything from oil spills to global warming to the so-called 'dangers' of marijuana. And no matter how you slice it, what has happened if Fukushima is very serious; it's a serious accident, and even in the best-case scenario it is going to have long-term consequences for the immediate area around the reactors.

But that said, you're right- and personally, while I am someone who is VERY concerned about not just Fukushima but the blase attitude taken towards these radiation releases by our government, but I also am more than willing to challenge someone who posts, say, Alex Jones or Infowars as a source on a breathless story about how 'nuclear explosions' are imminent. Bad science pisses me off, as do silver peddling, tin foil crisis bloggers.


I do think most of us want the same thing, i.e. stabilization and minimization of any further damage or contamination.

[MedleyMisty]

3. Same thing I saw with Libya

Our news thread, where we mostly just post news about Libya - we do comment sometimes, but for the most part it's just links to actual news articles - gets unrecced and trolled. Anything honest or real about Libya gets ignored and unrecced. It's ugly. Very ugly.

It seems to be people being knee jerk anti-military intervention at all costs, even though the Libyans asked for it and support it and are even today still demonstrating with American and French and Qatar and other flags in thanks and support for the NFZ - although they are rather upset with NATO and countries like Turkey and Russia and China.

Actually - every time someone who is ignorant about Libya opens their mouth without knowing what they're talking about, it's ugly. I've definitely learned that over the last few months - ignorance is ugly. Next time I find myself being ugly about something, I'm going to stop and ask "Self, do you know enough about this to be talking about it?"

I suggest looking into Buddhist philosophy - it's all about overcoming dualistic thinking. :)

And I don't mean to hijack the thread with Libya - it's just that the two situations seem to be similar, in the way that you observed. Which backs up your theory of it being far more about American culture and psychology than it is about the actual issues.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

4. Interesting---I never thought of connecting black and white thinking

with the two-party system here.

I wonder what the social gestalt is like in countries with a multi-party system? and how would that filter down and express in individual behavior?

very interesting post.

(I recced it too :P :D )

[Warren DeMontague]

6. Things are REALLY polarized in this country. I don't think it was even like this, here, when I was a

kid.

I mean, even with the Vietnam war, the 60s, and everything else.. Now it seems like anything and everything is up for debate, and causes a fight. Particularly since the right thinks it can make up its own "facts" on everything from global warming to evolution.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

11. Oh yes, social discourse is polarized alright!

Once again, I go back to Neil Postman's book, "Amusing Ourselves to Death".

He predicts how the fall of the written word as television dominated society would destroy the ability to think critically. He describes the various scenarios that would likely result as the population's IQ steadily dropped.

Absolutely prescient book..... It seems to me that the polarized factions seem to be the ignorant bullies vs the educated "rationals" (for lack of a better term. I had to come up with something, so I could finish my post!)

And, perhaps there's a third tier? the puppet-masters, the CorporateFascists who manipulate the bullies in numerous ways.

[KittyWampus]

5. Big part of the problem- corporations/governments lie to us to cover their asses.

Like with BP oil spill in the Gulf.

Some DU'ers really got overly dramatic about it killing the entire planet. But it's hard to really fault people when the corporate toadies so willingly obfuscate and deceive and exhibit no real concern for the lives of the victims over their bottom line.

[Robb]

7. It is a mode of thinking most appropriate to crisis, and little else.

Fight or flight.

I would similarly expect encouraging either-or thinking -- the horse race the popular media so adores -- would serve to keep viewers feeling eternally in crisis, as well.

It is simpler to manage a population that feels threatened, eh?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

14. good point. Fight, flight (or freeze)

Authoritarians would feel most comfortable in such a social order.

Another description that comes to mind is the Buddhist life-state, Animality, where one perceives their self and the world as a victim/victimizer duality. The weak fear the strong, the strong prey on the weak, the weak fawn on the strong, the strong need the weak....and one can switch roles.

[uppityperson]

8. k&r for non-dichotomous thinking.

[canetoad]

9. I've contemplated the polarised viewpoints

that seem to represent American thinking and think it comes not so much from the two party system but from direct voting.

While you vote for the most popular, we, with a preferential voting system, tend to end up with the less-hated in parliament.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

10. hi toad!

:hi:

Hey, can you explain "preferential voting system"? I'm not familiar with that.....

I assume you're in Australia.... if the U.S. could be called polarized, how would you describe Australia? Geez, I know that's a wayyy too generalized question, but I'm not sure how to otherwise word it.

[canetoad]

15. Heya Blanche

:hi:

Yep, Australia here.

On the ballot paper you have your list of candidates for the seat and you number them 1, 2,3 etc in order of preference. The primary vote is the number of '1s' that a candidate gets but it's also influenced by how many have voted for that candidate as a second or third choice.

We also have compulsory voting. I believe that leads to less excitable election campaigns; there is no focus on GOTV as we all are required to vote.

It's hard so say without generalising how I would describe the differences between Oz & USA. We have a lunatic right wing fringe too, but they are a lot less vocal and less powerful than your Repubs or Tea Partiers. In general, politicians are not elevated to celebrity status and are regarded more as a irritating necessity!

Take care :hi:

[Hissyspit]

12. That is not the main reason people are unrecing, as far as I can tell.

People are unrecing obvious spin and industry talking points mostly from what I've seen. There was A LOT of bad news this week and plenty of people trying to deliberately ignore it. Yes, there have people over-reacting here on certain aspects of the disaster and ignorance and misinformation gets posted, but if you really want to get instructive and meta, ask why people are so desperate to pretend that this is not a sci-fi-ish nightmare vision made real, even if we have to argue which sci-fi nightmare vision made real it is..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x893571

[bobbolink]

13. The other way to see it is that some people are so died-in-the-wool "positive thinkers" that any

hint of reality that sounds "negative" will be seen as divisive.