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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:00 PM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Day 58
Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16">AJE Live Blog April 16 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/libya">The Guardian http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/">Telegraph http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x894185">Day 57 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678">Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


A protester holds a sign asking for more NATO intervention

Photograph: Twitpic



http://www.economist.com/node/18530535">Early days, early rivalries
The rebels have virtually no institutions to hold their eastern zone together. But the vacuum is steadily being filled. Courts have started to function again. The rebels have even set up an embryonic intelligence service. The nights have become quieter since the police, back in action, started to question people wielding unlicensed weapons. After dusk volunteers man checkpoints inside Benghazi and outside its main hotels. Businessmen say that mobile telephones and the internet will be reconnected to the outside world within a week or two. Despite the no-fly zone, aircraft and even military helicopters fly in and out of Benghazi’s rebel-held airport.

...

As people begin to suspect that a military stalemate may last months, some are worrying that the self-appointed council may entrench itself with no accountability. It presents itself as the new Libya’s legislature, with a “crisis-management committee” as its government, alongside a plethora of lesser committees. But it is not always clear who is in charge or where lines of command are being drawn.

The council has yet to begin untangling the legal and legislative knots that have snarled up the economy for so many years. For instance, Colonel Qaddafi’s Law Number Four, which empowers the state to confiscate private property and resell it, has yet to be repealed. But doing so would set off a string of compensation claims, which the courts are not yet equipped to assess. “We want our houses back,” says Maha al-Shahumi, who helps to run a fledgling prosecution service in the council’s courthouse. “We won’t rest till we do.”

Some of the new order’s more liberal backers say the council should set up mechanisms forthwith to ensure openness. It should schedule provincial elections, start drafting a new school syllabus and promise a rapid reform of the army and security service, once the colonel has been toppled. In particular, the new council, based as it is in the east, must widen its composition and strive to persuade Tripolitanians in the west that a decent new order is being built. It must also reassure foreign governments that it can be a worthy interlocutor.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/15/libya.war/index.html">Rights group: Gadhafi forces firing cluster munitions
Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi have fired cluster munitions into residential areas in the besieged western city of Misrata, Human Rights Watch said Friday.

A spokesman for the Libyan government denied the charge.

The organization said in a statement that it had seen three cluster munitions explode over the el-Shawahda neighborhood of Misrata on Thursday night. Researchers inspected debris from a cluster submunition and interviewed witnesses to two other apparent cluster munitions strikes, the statement said.

HRW inspected the submunition, which it said had been discovered by a New York Times reporter, and determined that it was a Spanish-produced MAT-120 120mm mortar projectile, which opens in the air and releases 21 submunitions across a wide area.


http://www.minesactioncanada.org/media-centre#READ%20MORE%3E%3E">Cluster Munition Coalition condemns use of cluster munitions by Libyan armed forces
Cluster Munition Coalition member Human Rights Watch has revealed today that Gaddafi’s forces have used cluster munitions in Misrata, Libya. Cluster munitions have been outlawed by the majority of the world’s nations under the 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions because of their indiscriminate nature and the harm they cause to civilians both during and after a conflict ends.

“Libya should immediately stop all use of cluster munitions. These banned weapons have horrific effects and the unexploded ordnance that will result will prolong civilian suffering even after the conflict has ended,” said Laura Cheeseman, director of the Cluster Munition Coalition (CMC).

Human Rights Watch has reported eyewitness accounts of cluster munition use in recent days. The full extent of cluster munition use and resulting civilian casualties is unknown. Urgent steps must now be taken to ensure that unexploded cluster submunitions are cleared to prevent further deaths or injuries from cluster munitions.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/15/libya-middle-east-uprising-live#block-13">Libyan opposition supporters are holding up Zawahri's comments as proof that the rebels are not al-Qaida fighters
http://twitter.com/Ssirgany/statuses/58835114687348736">Ssirgany:

Zawahri says Muslims should fight NATO in Libya (Reuters)... Zawahri just dispelled the Qaddafi lie about rebels being Qaeda


http://twitter.com/Libyan4life">Libyan4life:

FINALLY PROOF WE AREN"T WITH ALQAEDA!!! Al Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman AlZawahri has urged Muslims in #Libya to fight NATO forces. ½

We ASKED #Nato and the international community to intervene, why would we attack them?! 2/2 #YaRight #Dreamon #Libya #Feb17


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13092908">Misrata hospital to 'treat patients on floor' as beds full - video
David Cameron, Barack Obama and Nicolas Sarkozy have declared that the military action in Libya will continue for as long as Colonel Gaddafi remains in power.

Rebels in the central city of Misrata are still holding out but the stand-off between Gaddafi's forces and the opposition is costing civilians their lives.

The BBC's Orla Guerin has been inside one of the hospitals which is overflowing with patients.

VIDEO AT LINK


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141591544963774.html">Gaddafi forces pound Misurata again - video
Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi fired a hail of rockets into the besieged city of Misurata for the second day in a row, killing at least eight people, a local doctor told Al Jazeera.

He said seven other civilians, including children and older people, were wounded in the attacks on Friday. Residents told Al Jazeera around 120 rockets pounded the city.

Gaddafi's forces also opened fire on rebels on the western edge of Ajdabiyah, killing one, rebel fighters said.

A rebel manning an anti-aircraft gun was shot dead and two others were wounded in the attack one kilometre from the western gate of Ajdabiyah, the last major town before the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

VIDEO AT LINK




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map


Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=730234&mesg_id=731532

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594751

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’ Italy: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://jenkinsear.com/2011/03/19/a-legal-war-the-united-nations-participation-act-and-libya/">A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has http://www.un.org/en/sc/repertoire/actions.shtml#rel5">never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV § 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode22/usc_sec_22_00000287---d000-.html">without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 § 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/1541–1548.html">"specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. § 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/obama_explains_libya_mission_to_congress/2011/03/03/ABU9377_blog.html">which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2011/03/2011328194855872276.html">Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/31/getting_libyas_rebels_wrong">Getting Libya's Rebels Wrong
Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.


http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvS7iW22">Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/29/vision-democratic-libya-interim-national-council">A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.



Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/23/a_bright_voice_from_libyas_darkness">this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Current time in Libya, 3:01am Saturday, April 16
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yep, NATO please just do it.
Misrata is hurting. Badly.

:hi:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Hey tab, need to eat, be back soon.
Don't feel obligated to update or anything. :hug:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Just came back from shopping.
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 10:05 PM by tabatha
Going to skip out for the rest of the night - a brutal week of tons of work. Will be in and out over the weekend as the computer is used for odds and ends. Hope you don't burn too many late night candles. :hug:

Just read this tweet. Those people are amazing.

2margarita‎ RT @acarvin: I had no idea that Mo Nabbous' widow, Perditta, had taken over his livestream and is now broadcasting from Benghazi. Wow. #libya
Twitter - 3 minutes ago


BTW, Bill Maher here:

http://www.tvpc.com/Channel.php?ChannelID=2453
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh wow, they said they were bringing it back, but they finally have!
This is so uplifting.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. International law: Regime unchanged
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/16/libya-middleeast">International law: Regime unchanged
In a joint newspaper article yesterday, the US president and British prime minister told the world that they would maintain their assault on an Arab country until its regime collapsed. The inclusion of the French president as a third signatory was less familiar, but a sense that the casus belli is being breezily redefined while stalemate takes hold on the ground is eerily reminiscent of 2003.

Libya, however, is not Iraq, as a close reading of the grand triumvirate's words makes plain. Barack Obama has been a reluctant warrior, and his chief purpose in signing the piece was not perverting an avowedly humanitarian campaign, but rather extending a low-cost lifeline to allies in Paris and London, who have been feeling politically isolated. Nato's air power has not yet proved decisive and, despite some confident claims at its Berlin summit, most of its members are reluctant to step into the space created by American reticence. The White House's caution was reflected in an op-ed that proposed transition from dictatorship not to democracy, but to the more fudgeable prospect of "an inclusive constitutional process".

Another difference between the Bush years and the age of Obama is that the latter has at least some regard for the rule of international law, and this was evident in painstaking drafting. It acknowledged that the legal mandate was about protecting civilians, and was explicitly "not to remove Colonel Gaddafi by force". Nonetheless, the trio said, removed he must be, not as the objective of the action but as an inescapable precondition to securing the humanitarian goals. The argument is reminiscent of Catholic teachings about the difference between sought moral consequences and those that are merely foreseen. There was no place for such nuance in the born-again certainties of George Bush. But changing war aims via Jesuitical distinctions is too clever by half.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. is there any way to consolidate these threads a little bit?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They're in my journal.
We may slow down posting them if the news dies down, but this is a constantly moving conflict with hundreds of updates a day.

I assume you had similar issues with the Egyptian tweet threads?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Libya crisis: Gaddafi using schoolboy conscripts on front line
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8453737/Libya-crisis-Gaddafi-using-schoolboy-conscripts-on-front-line.html">Libya crisis: Gaddafi using schoolboy conscripts on front line
The teenagers are told they are going on training exercises until they reach the front lines, when they are given rifles and told by officers they will be shot if they retreat or desert.

Two badly-wounded teenage fighters shown to The Daily Telegraph said they were told Misurata had been overrun by drug addicts, Islamic militants and Egyptian invaders.

One said his own side had opened fire on his own teenage detachment when they later fled from the rebels.

In the past week, the conscripts have been thrust into fighting along the strategic "heavy road" connecting the Benghazi to Tripoli highway with the commercial port ten miles away at Ghasr Ahmad.


Repost for people who may have missed this important article characterizing the depths of the tyrant.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Libya regime change is west's goal, but doubts remain over how to achieve it
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/libya-regime-change-analysis">Libya regime change is west's goal, but doubts remain over how to achieve it
The US and its principal western allies – Britain and France – have made plain this week that military action against Libya will continue until Muammar Gaddafi is overthrown. The newspaper article from Barack Obama, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy leaves no doubt that the Libyan leader must go – a policy of regime change by any other name.

It appears to definitively scotch calls for a transition period that would leave Gaddafi or his sons in power – an idea put forward by Libyan officials and the African Union but rejected out of hand by the opposition.

Name-checking cities such as Misrata and Ajdabiya, besieged and attacked by government forces, was intended to bring home the brutal reality of what the presidents and prime minister warned would be an "unconscionable betrayal" if the Libyan leader did not depart.

Yet serious doubts remain about how Gaddafi's downfall is to be achieved. Nato's two-day ministerial meeting in Berlin looks set to show more disagreement about who does what, with Britain and France pressing – so far in vain – for other member states to take part in combat missions, as distinct from simply policing the no-fly zone.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. LIBYA HURRA -- !!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Gaddafi's daughter whips supporters into a frenzy with speech in Tripoli
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/gaddafi-daughter-supporters-tripoli">Gaddafi's daughter whips supporters into a frenzy with speech in Tripoli
They gather nightly, ready to die for the Brother Leader. Wrapped in loyalist green, waving flags, chanting slogans, holding aloft portraits of their "Guide", singing, dancing and praying, they are Muammar Gaddafi's human shields against Nato air strikes.

In the early hours of Friday, exactly 25 years after US forces bombed Gaddafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound in central Tripoli, thousands gathered in defiance of the new international coalition against the Libyan regime's brutal efforts to suppress the uprising from the east.

Whipped up by loyalist chants led from loudspeakers and patriotic songs, they were already in a state of fervour when Aisha Gaddafi, the Libyan leader's daughter, appeared high in the skeleton of a bombed-out building.

Against a backdrop of the shattered facade and draped in a flowing headscarf of green and gold, Aisha pumped her fists at the crowd as they roared and ululated their approval.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. The Guardian on Aisha Gaddafi's defiant speech to her father's supporters
Harriet Sherwood in Tripoli has filed a vivid account of Aisha Gaddafi's speech in front of a large crowd last night...


In the Bab al-Aziziya compound, there was only one message: devotion to Gaddafi and hatred of Nato and Libya's rebel opposition. "We will never give up. Victorious or we die," ran one chant.


As the foreign media were escorted from the compound at the end of Aisha's speech, the "Zenga Zenga" song blared from speakers. The words are taken from a speech by Saif al-Islam, Aisha's brother and Gaddafi's son, early in the conflict, in which he pledged to hunt down the rebels.


"House to house, room to room, alley to alley, person to person we will disinfect the whole country from filth," it goes. "Zenga Zenga" – alley to alley – has now become part of loyalist Libya's lexicon, a chilling term of approval among people in Gaddafi's grip.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/15/libya-middle-east-uprising-live#block-33



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. "Those who don't want (Gaddafi) don't deserve to live!"
Another chilling quote from Aisha Gaddafi:


"My father once said that 'if the Libyan nation doesn't want me, then I don't deserve to live. "The Libyans answered him in a united voice: 'Those who don't want you don't deserve to live!'"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/15/libya.war/






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:39 AM
Original message
Libya's 'Claudia Schiffer' Defends Gadhafi -- Because He's Her Dad
Another good piece on Aisha Gaddafi, this one by Lauren Frayer:

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/15/aisha-gadhafi-libyas-claudia-schiffer-defends-gadhafi-be/






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. Libya's 'Claudia Schiffer' Defends Gadhafi -- Because He's Her Dad
Another good piece on Aisha Gaddafi, this one by Lauren Frayer:

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/15/aisha-gadhafi-libyas-claudia-schiffer-defends-gadhafi-be/






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R



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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
12. Nato rejects Russian claims of Libya mission creep
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/nato-libya-rasmussen-medvedev-criticism">Nato rejects Russian claims of Libya mission creep
The secretary general of Nato has insisted its Libyan mission does not exceed the UN mandate to protect civilians from Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen was responding to criticism from the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, who on Tuesday claimed the situation in Libya had "already spun out of control" and that the plan to enforce a no-fly zone over the country had been reduced to the straightforward use of force.

Rasmussen said Nato's forces were acting "in strict conformity with both the spirit and the letter of the UN security council motion", which established a no-fly zone and authorised member states to take "all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack".

The Nato leader admitted he had not yet had any firm offers from any members to "step up to the plate" and offer more precision warplanes, which the Nato commander in charge of Libya requested on Thursday at the start of the meeting of Nato foreign ministers in Berlin.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. They're sure as hell not protecting civilians in Misrata
Twitter is making my heart bleed right now.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Was watching Libya Alhurra earlier, yeah, it's really sad.
Hopefully the word about Brega being squabbled over is true, because it means that the rebels are just that much closer to becoming cohesive and on their way to saving Misrata.

It will still be several weeks before Misrata is secured, though. :( :cry:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
67. What will it take to do that -- presuming they are committed ---
see they are evacuating some people -- only 1200 --

If I were Queen .... !!

the NFZ came much too late -- and I'm not really sure what's going on with NATO -

can't judge it, but obviously much death and destruction still occurring!!

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. HRW: Gaddafi forces use cluster bombs - video (AJE)
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Gravel Democrat Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. Flashback: NATO uses cluster bombs: Cluster bombing of Nis
The Cluster bombing of Niš was an event that occurred on May 7, 1999 during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. It was the most serious incident involving civilian deaths and the use of cluster bombs.<1> The cluster bombs had been dropped by Dutch F-16's.<2> After the incident the Dutch stopped using cluster bombs in the campaign, whereas the other NATO members kept using them.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bombing_of_Nis

Civilian casualties as a result of Operation Allied Force were significant. Many of the people killed in the NATO airstrikes were widely reported to be civilians, both Serbs and Albanians. Human Rights Watch confirmed ninety incidents in which civilians died as a result of NATO bombing. It reported that as few as 489 and as many as 528 Yugoslav civilians were killed in the ninety separate incidents in Operation Allied Force.<1> According to Yugoslav Committee for Cooperation with UNICEF, the Yugoslav civilian victims are more than 1,200.<2>

According to military historian Michael Oren, for every Serbian soldier killed by NATO in 1999, four civilians died, constituting a civilian casualty ratio of 4:1.<3>


...NATO confirmed that a cluster bomb aimed at an airfield in the Yugoslav city of Niš hit a hospital and a market, killing 14 civilians. Local officials said that a further 60 people were injured in the daylight attack which left unexploded cluster bombs lying in gardens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_inflicted_during_Operation_Allied_Force

Can we all agree that cluster bombing is wrong no matter who does it?

Surely no cluster bombs are being used by NATO now... Right?

Because...

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. "Can we all agree that cluster bombing is wrong no matter who does it?" Yes.
I would denounce use of cluster bombs by NATO. Would appreciate a post on NATO using them in Libya, given that the United States has taken a backseat role and as far as I can tell is the only NATO state not a signatory to the cluster bomb treaty.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
68. +1 --
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. 150 Years After Fort Sumter: Why We're Still Fighting the Civil War
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 02:19 AM by joshcryer
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2063679-1,00.html">150 Years After Fort Sumter: Why We're Still Fighting the Civil War
A few weeks before Captain George S. James sent the first mortar round arcing through the predawn darkness toward Fort Sumter, South Carolina, on April 12, 1861, Abraham Lincoln cast his Inaugural Address as a last-ditch effort to win back the South. A single thorny issue divided the nation, he declared: "One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute."

It was not a controversial statement at the time. Indeed, Southern leaders were saying similar things during those fateful days. But 150 years later, Americans have lost that clarity about the cause of the Civil War, the most traumatic and transformational event in U.S. history, which left more than 625,000 dead — more Americans killed than in both world wars combined.

Shortly before the Fort Sumter anniversary, Harris Interactive polled more than 2,500 adults across the country, asking what the North and South were fighting about. A majority, including two-thirds of white respondents in the 11 states that formed the Confederacy, answered that the South was mainly motivated by "states' rights" rather than the future of slavery.

The question "What caused the Civil War?" returns 20 million Google hits and a wide array of arguments on Internet comment boards and discussion threads. The Civil War was caused by Northern aggressors invading an independent Southern nation. Or it was caused by high tariffs. Or it was caused by blundering statesmen. Or it was caused by the clash of industrial and agrarian cultures. Or it was caused by fanatics. Or it was caused by the Marxist class struggle.


Amazing article, I thought it 'belonged' in this thread. I gave credence to the idea that the American Civil War didn't result in much difference, this article completely changed my mind, and made me feel humble for my ignorance of the situation.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
73. Interesting --
and, needless to say, there is still that mindset on the fascist right which

acts to exploit and enslave humans.

Agree that the issue was SLAVERY -- enshrined in our schizophrenic Constitution which

said "All are Equal."

IMO, the primary reason that slavery couldn't be acknowledged in the South was because

those who fought and died for the Confederacy could not be seen as dying for the profits

of elite slave holders. Southern elites lied to them in the beginning and in the end.

Further "Christianity" also had the losing argument re slavery -- vs All are Equal --

and vs "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" -- which gives license to

exploitation of nature -- and even other human beings according to various myths of

inferiority. Organized patriarchal religion is still out of accord with Equality for all.

And, GOP still carries the torch for this concept of ownership of human beings --

it's a core of the trade agreements, in fact -- with corporations "harvesting slave labor

all over the world."

Yes -- a very current theme !!

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. Libya Rebels Build Parallel State

Source: Wall Street Journal




APRIL 16, 2011

.
Libya Rebels Build Parallel State


Opposition's Leaders Accumulate the Trappings of Independence, Despite Struggles on the Battlefield



By CHARLES LEVINSON



BENGHAZI, Libya—Rebels here have drafted a constitution that calls for full equality regardless of gender, race or religion, part of their effort to convince the world they are committed to democracy and deserve international support.


The document represents a milestone in the rebels' effort to move rapidly from a grass-roots uprising to a government with all the trappings of statehood.

...


Rebels seeking stronger aid in their fight have reached out to show their commitment to Western values and allay concerns about the role of Islamist fighters in their military.


The temporary constitution, drafted by a group of intellectuals for the Benghazi-based Transitional National Council, is one of the many signs of the rebels' effort to build a new Libya.


In recent weeks, the rebels have received foreign envoys and visiting heads of state as a sovereign government would. They have taken steps to govern their borders, such as making a new exit and entry stamp for visitors, and recording arrivals and departures. They have formed parallel leaderships and new headquarters for critical government institutions, such as the central bank and the National Oil Company. They are in the process of re-creating a tax authority.


...


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703648304576265021509675668.html








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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. Anti-Gaddafi fighters in Benghazi tell Al Jazeera they are sending fighters to Misurata to help
9:07am Anti-Gaddafi fighters in Benghazi tell Al Jazeera they are sending fighters to Misurata to help "liberate" it, along with other cities in the west of the country.

Misurata continues to be under shelling by Gaddafi forces this morning, they tell us. There is no shortage of men fighting the Gaddafi troops in Misurata, those in Benghazi say - but they need reinforcing with weapons capable of penetrating the heavily armoured vehicles being used to attack the city.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26951
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. NATO runs short on some munitions in Libya

Source: Washington Post





By Karen DeYoung and Greg Jaffe, Friday, April 15, 8:46 PM


Less than a month into the Libyan conflict, NATO is running short of precision bombs, highlighting the limitations of Britain, France and other European countries in sustaining even a relatively small military action over an extended period of time, according to senior NATO and U.S. officials.


...


So far, the NATO commander has not requested their (U.S. warplanes') deployment. Several U.S. military officials said they anticipated being called back into the fight, although a senior administration official said he expected other countries to announce “in the next few days” that they would contribute aircraft equipped with the laser-guided munitions.

...


But, they said, the current bombing rate by the participating nations is not sustainable. “The reason we need more capability isn’t because we aren’t hitting what we see — it’s so that we can sustain the ability to do so. One problem is flight time, the other is munitions,” said another official, one of several who were not authorized to discuss the issue on the record.


European arsenals of laser-guided bombs, the NATO weapon of choice in the Libyan campaign, have been quickly depleted, officials said. Although the United States has significant stockpiles, its munitions do not fit on the British- and French-made planes that have flown the bulk of the missions.

...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some-munitions-in-libya/2011/04/15/AF3O7ElD_story.html









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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
45. French paper takes exception to the WaPo claim
Les étranges affirmations du Washington Post sur la guerre en Libye

http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-du-point/jean-guisnel/les-etranges-affirmations-du-washington-post-sur-la-guerre-en-libye-16-04-2011-1320078_53.php

Google translate:
The strange assertions by the Washington Post about the war in Libya
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lepoint.fr%2Fchroniqueurs-du-point%2Fjean-guisnel%2Fles-etranges-affirmations-du-washington-post-sur-la-guerre-en-libye-16-04-2011-1320078_53.php&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Quote of note:
"What conclusion?
The Washington Post article considers, without writing explicitly, that the Europeans would do well to buy more weapons to the United States if they want to make war in earnest. Rien de neuf... Nothing new ... "

They seem more than mildly irritated.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
22. Misrata evacuee ship reaches Libyan rebel city

Source: Reuters




Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:03am GMT


* Bombardment made many parts of Misrata inaccessible

* Returning workers describe sleepless nights, shelling




By Alexander Dziadosz

BENGHAZI, Libya, April 15 (Reuters) - An aid ship brought nearly 1,200 evacuees to the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi late on Friday, just a fraction of those stranded in the besieged city of Misrata still desperate to escape.


Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi have besieged western Libya's lone rebel bastion for six weeks using rockets and other heavy weapons. Hundreds of civilians are reported to have died in the fighting.


There were likely to be at least 8,000 to 10,000 migrants who still needed to be evacuated from the city, Jeremy Haslam, an aid coordinator with the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) who was on board the ship, said.


Bombardment made it impossible to get into many areas of Misrata and pressed the aid ship to leave as swiftly as it could, he said. That meant making hard choices when deciding who to bring on board.


"We threw out the textbook, basically. We couldn't get to the most vulnerable, those who need to get out fastest, because it was too dangerous," Haslam said.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73E24T20110416?sp=true









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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. At least 100 Grad rockets have pounded Misurata in shelling since the early hours of this morning
9:53am At least 100 Grad rockets have pounded Misurata in shelling since the early hours of this morning, a spokesman for anti-Gaddafi fighters tells Reuters. Abdelbasset Abu Mzereiq said:

They fired Grads at an industrial area this morning, at least one hundred rockets were fired. No casualties are reported.

We know that the dairy factory there has been damaged.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26966

Twitter is getting more accurate about these reports...
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Anti-Gaddafi fighters in eastern Libya have spent the early morning reinforcing their positions
10:40am Anti-Gaddafi fighters in eastern Libya have spent the early morning reinforcing their positions on the Ajdabiya-Brega road, says the AFP news agency.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26976

They're getting their shit together, finally. Should've done this in Ras Lanuf 3 weeks ago...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. Witness: Gadhafi's forces keep pounding devastated city of Misrata




STORY HIGHLIGHTS

•NEW: Libyan state TV: The city of Sirte is getting bombarded by the "crusader enemy"

•A man in Misrata says pro-government forces shell the city's port to try to cut off aid

•Human Rights Watch: Gadhafi's troops are using cluster bombs; the regime denies

•Most nations have banned cluster munitions


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/16/libya.war/?hpt=T2







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
31. Another boat from Libya, with 84 Libyans aboard, arrived in Tunisia around 6 this morning
An eyewitness tells Al Jazeera's Youssef Gaigi - in Tunis - that another boat has arrived in Tunisia from Libya, at around 6am this morning, docking at the southern port of Zarzis.


Apparently the boast is Maltese and there are some 84 Libyans on board. Several passengers are injured. There are ten ambulances taking the injured to Zarzis hospital.


11:07am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26966






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. Sec. Clinton: NATO looking into ways to help Libyan rebels sell oil--Bloomberg nt



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. Libyan rebels say they advance to oil town of Brega--AP





Updated 03:01 a.m., Saturday, April 16, 2011


AJDABIYA, Libya (AP) — An officer with Libya's rebels says after four days of holding back, his forces have advanced to a strategic oil town.

Col. Hamid Hassy said Saturday that following scattered clashes with government forces, the rebels were now near the massive oil facilities of Brega.


Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Libyan-rebels-say-they-advance-to-oil-town-1338244.php#ixzz1JgEPnppH








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. Ali Salem el-Faizani has taken on duties as a traffic policeman in Benghazi...
The ten-year-old is a member of a youth group similar to the Scout Movement, and took to helping his community as schools closed two months ago. He tells Chris Hondros of Getty Images:


"I like directing the cars around."




(Picture: GALLO/GETTY)


11:19am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26966







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
35. Blasts rock Misrata as Libya rebels push in east

Source: AFP




Phil Moore
April 16, 2011 - 7:34PM


Loud explosions rocked the besieged rebel-held western Libyan city of Misrata where the death toll mounted Saturday as a rights watchdog charged Moamer Kadhafi's forces are using cluster bombs.


In the east, shelling was heard as rebel fighters bolstered by NATO air strikes pushed on from the crossroads town of Ajdabiya toward the strategic oil town of Brega.


The blasts in Misrata were accompanied by bursts of gunfire heard coming from the city centre, after NATO flyovers and possible air raids were followed by a lull in shelling and shooting, an AFP correspondent said.


Officials at Misrata's main Hikma hospital said overnight it had received five dead bodies and 31 wounded.

...


The insurgents' goal is to retake Brega about 80 kilometres (50 miles) away. Some reports said they were already on the outskirts of the oil town.

...


http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/blasts-rock-misrata-as-libya-rebels-push-in-east-20110416-1digj.html








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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. K&r
go rebels
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
36. Libya urged to release journalists


Source: Global Post





Human rights group calls on Gaddafi to free James Foley and other reporters.


April 15, 2011 19:15


BOSTON — A leading human rights organization Friday urged the Libyan government to release or at least provide information on 15 detained journalists, including GlobalPost reporter James Foley.


"Libyan and foreign journalists are facing unlawful restrictions from the government, including incommunicado detention in Tripoli," said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch. "If the government has nothing to hide, then it should let the media do its work."


Human Rights Watch said that nine foreign journalists and six Libyan journalists are detained or missing in Libya.


At least three of the foreign journalists — Foley, Clare Morgana Gillis and Manu Brabo — have been held incommunicado in the capital, Tripoli, since April 8. They have not been allowed to contact their families or receive visiting diplomats.

...


http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/war/conflict-zones/110415/libya-urged-release-journalists





http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/war/conflict-zones/110415/libya-urged-release-journalists






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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
37. Ship with ‘irregular cargo’ from Malta stopped by Nato before entering Tripoli
NATIONAL Saturday, April 16, 2011

HMS Liverpool has stopped a suspect car ferry from entering Libya as part of the Nato arms blockade, the UK's Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

The Portsmouth-based destroyer leapt into action to board the roll-on, roll-off ferry Setubal Express, which was sailing from Malta toward the Libyan capital Tripoli with a cargo of vehicles.

The crew suspected cargo was onboard which could be used by forces loyal to Colonel Gaddafi.

Liverpool sailors boarded the ferry and discovered the ship’s cargo record book ‘contained irregularities’, the MoD said.

Complete...
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/ship-with-%E2%80%98irregular-cargo%E2%80%99-from-malta-stopped-by-nato-before-entering-tripoli
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
38. Lehigh Univ. student fighting in Libya shares experiences through conference call in Bethlehem

Source: The Express-Times (Easton, PA)





Published: Saturday, April 16, 2011, 12:15 AM Updated: Saturday, April 16, 2011, 12:15 AM


By LYNN OLANOFF


The Express-Times


BETHLEHEM | This time last year, Issa Hakim was living in Bethlehem taking classes at Lehigh University toward a doctorate in mechanical engineering.


This spring, Hakim has traded his textbooks for a machine gun as he fights for freedom in his home country of Libya.


...


Hakim, who's still officially a Lehigh student on leave, reported rapes and murders. Hakim also reported an inability to bury slain rebel fighters over fears they would be discovered by government forces. So instead, many Libyans have been storing their dead loved ones in empty refrigerators until it is safe to bury them, Hakim wrote.

...


Also taking part in the conference call was Hakim's cousin Omar Saied, a rebel forces colonel who took part in a mission to rescue an American pilot whose jet crashed near Benghazi in March. It was Saied's first time talking to the media, and CNN and The Associated Press also took part in Friday's call.

...


http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1302926712166921.xml&coll=3&thispage=2








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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. AJE: A Red Cross team has now arrived in Misurata
1:45pm
A Red Cross team has now arrived in Misurata, say Libyan officials, and has entered areas controlled by the opposition. Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim told reporters:

"The Libyan army took them to a specific place into the city and the Red Cross went to the other side."

On Monday, the Red Cross said it was planning to open an office in Tripoli, but officials reportedly said opening an aid corridor to the western city of Misurata - under siege by Gaddafi's forces for weeks - would be akin to an act of war.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-27041
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
65. kr
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
40. Al Jazeera reports heavy gunfire in eastern Brega as revolutionaries attack Gaddafi forces
Heavy gunfire can now be heard as anti-Gaddafi fighters clash with troops loyal to the longterm leader in eastern Brega.

1:38pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16#update-26966






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
41. "We are not armed troops or terrorists. We don't know how to use arms, but...we fight."
More from AP:


"We are not armed troops or terrorists," Hakim said. "We don't know how to use arms, but necessity requires that we fight."


Speaking from Benghazi, the de facto opposition capital in the eastern half of Libya's Mediterranean coast, Hakim outlined the rebels' vision for a new government, including establishing a constitution that guarantees many of the freedoms that he enjoyed during his time in the United States. A poster of an American flag hung on a wall behind him.


Hakim is not alone in traveling back to his homeland to fight. Since the start of the conflict, when opposition forces seized most of the eastern half of Libya's Mediterranean coast, hundreds of Libyans have returned from the United States, Europe and elsewhere to lend their skills to the rebel cause.


...


The emails described a scenario in which people can't go to hospitals for fear government loyalists will show up and kill them, and families emptying refrigerators to store their dead loved ones for fear that if they are seen burying them, they too will be killed.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5grwwBQdUnqhtnBTvq7BKRFaCrPug?docId=82aa34b1ad9b4d93b355f3eb6f0268b4







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
43. Libyan government forces bombard Misrata

Source: Reuters





By Alexander Dziadosz


BENGHAZI, Libya | Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:19am EDT


(Reuters) - Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi fired at least 100 Grad rockets into Misrata on Saturday, a rebel spokesman said, in a third day of heavy bombardment of the rebel-held city.

...


In the east, rebel military leader, Abdel Fattah Younes, said his forces were engaged in fierce fighting in Brega, west of Benghazi, and said he hoped he would have "good news" soon.


"We have people who are positioned at the entrance to Brega, they have cleared out some snipers. We've basically cleared out Gaddaffi's forces from the eastern outskirts," rebel commander Jibril Mohammed Jibril said on Saturday on the fringes of Ajdabiyah, the nearest town to Brega still under rebel control.

...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/16/us-libya-idUSTRE7270JP20110416?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&ca=torch








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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
44. Video: C.J. Chivers reports on cluster bombs in Misrata
C.J Chivers of the New York Times reports on the use of cluster bombs in residential areas in Misrata.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/04/15/multimedia/100000000777185/timescast--cluster-bombs-in-misurata.html

A small amount of additional information and photos.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
46. Chad denies officers fighting with Gaddafi troops
N'DJAMENA April 16 (Reuters) - Chad's foreign minister on Saturday rejected allegations by Libyan rebels fighting the government of leader Muammar Gaddafi that Chadian officers were fighting alongside Gaddafi's soldiers.

Moussa Faki Mahmat, addressing diplomatic envoys to the Central African state's capital, said a report by the Libyan transitional national council and submitted to the U.N. Security Council that alleged Chadian army officers were in Libya was untrue.

"We want to formally deny those accusations and, as proof, the officers mentioned in the report are here present," Mahmat said, pointing to nine soldiers seated in the room.

Rebels say Gaddafi has brought in African mercenaries from countries such as Chad and Zimbabwe to help Libyan troops trying to put down the uprising against Gaddafi's rule.

Continue...
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73F08520110416
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
47. Misrata evacuee ship reaches Libyan rebel city
BENGHAZI, Libya, April 15 (Reuters) - An aid ship brought nearly 1,200 evacuees to the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi late on Friday, just a fraction of those stranded in the besieged city of Misrata still desperate to escape.

...

Many of the evacuees had been living in Misrata for years and some had come to Libya from other war-battered countries, making it harder to return home.

"I don't know where I'm going to go," said Ahmed Jawad, 26, an engineering student from Baghdad who had been living in Misrata for eight years.

"Iraq is dangerous now too. I'm going to stay in Benghazi for a little while and see."

Complete...
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73E24T20110416?sp=true
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
48. Egypt court dissolves former ruling party
CAIRO, April 16 (Reuters) - An Egyptian court on Saturday ordered the dissolution of the political party of former President Hosni Mubarak, one of the demands of the protesters who ended his 30-year rule.

The Higher Administrative Court in Cairo also ordered the liquidation of the assets of the National Democratic Party (NDP), with the funds to be returned to the state.

The NDP dominated Egyptian politics since it was set up by Mubarak's predecessor, Anwar el-Sadat, in 1978.

The party's headquarters were torched during the protests that led Mubarak to step down in February, and its supporters were blamed for some acts of thuggery during the demonstrations.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE73F06L20110416

I enjoyed posting that so much that I may do it again.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
49. Syria's emergency law to be lifted
Last Modified: 16 Apr 2011 15:50

Syria's president says he expects the government to lift the country's decades-old emergency laws next week.

Bashar al-Assad made this announcement and pledged further reforms in a televised speech to his new cabinet after ministers were sworn in on Saturday.

"The juridical commission on the emergency law has prepared a series of proposals for new legislation, and these proposals will be submitted to the government, which will issue a new law within a week at the most," he said.

Lifting the 48-year-old state of emergency has been a key demand during a wave of protests over the past month.

Complete...
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/20114161511286268.html


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
50. 'Bloodshed on the street, all death': A desperate plea for help as Gadhafi moves in
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 11:20 AM by tabatha
A Libyan "citizen journalist" in the city of Misrata made a desperate last plea for international help late Friday, saying large numbers of people were dying as forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi bombarded and fought their way into the city.

In a mainly Arabic-language message posted on YouTube — a rough translation was posted by the Libya Al Hurra website — the man said "families, people are dying, no one is protecting us ... there is bloodshed on the street, all death."

"Misrata is calling, calling for help. I swear the sky is black (with) random bombing, Misrata is calling. Large numbers of people are dying," he said. "Where are you people?"

Sounding distressed, he said "my mental state is gone."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42619645/ns/world_news

This report was heard on Libya Alhurra, Mo Nabbous's online station now being run by his pregnant wife, Perditta who speaks both English and Arabic.
http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
66. kr
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
51. Algerian president announces the constitution will be revised
By the CNN Wire Staff
April 16, 2011 -- Updated 0208 GMT (1008 HKT)

CNN) -- Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika announced In a nationally televised address Friday that a commission that will include experts in constitutional law will revise the country's constitution.

"It (the commission) will make proposals in compliance with the fundamental values of our society, before submitting them for approval by the parliament or to your vote by referendum," he said, according to state media.

Bouteflika said "necessary changes" must be made to the constitution in order to strengthen democracy. "I have expressed on many occasions my desire to revise the constitution and I reiterated this belief and this desire on several occasions," he said.

Bouteflika also stressed the importance of respecting human rights in Algeria. "Human rights respect must become a constant concern of the various leagues and national associations in charge of the issue," he said. "All means will be ensured so that they can be heard and accomplish their missions."

Continue...
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/15/algeria.constitution/index.html

For a while it seemed that Bouteflika would take Algeria down the Gaddafi path. Perhaps he has reconsidered.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
52. BBC - Libya conflict: Gaddafi 'cluster bombing Misrata'
Releasing photographs of cluster munitions, New York-based Human Rights Watch said three projectiles had exploded over Misrata's el-Shawahda neighbourhood on Thursday night.

First discovered by a New York Times reporter and inspected by HRW researchers, the object photographed is said to be an MAT-120 120mm mortar projectile, which opens in mid-air and releases 21 "bomblets" over a wide area.

"Upon exploding on contact with an object, each submunition disintegrates into high-velocity fragments to attack people and releases a slug of molten metal to penetrate armoured vehicles," HRW noted.

HRW said the projectile it had examined had been manufactured in Spain in 2007, one year before Madrid signed the international Convention on Cluster Munitions.

Steve Goose, HRW's arms division director, said it was "appalling" that Libya was using such weapons, especially in a residential area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13102328

Links in article to:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/04/15/libya-cluster-munitions-strike-misrata
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/world/africa/16libya.html?_r=1&hp


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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
53. AJE video: The displaced children of Libya
The sons and daughters of those who fled from fighting wonder when they can go home.
Last Modified: 16 Apr 2011 06:54

Amid the military battles and the diplomatic wrangling, there are the children of the displaced.

Many evacuees fleeing the fighting along Libya's coast have been left without access to all the medical facilites and support they desperately need. The children may not grasp the geopolitics of the situation - but they do want to go home.

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton, reporting from Ajdabiya, tells the story of Libya's displaced children.

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/04/201141655513821305.html
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
54. Libya: MSF Evacuates Dozens of War Wounded from Misrata
ZARZIS, TUNISIA/GENEVA, April 16, 2011 – The international medical humanitarian organization Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) today completed a medical evacuation of almost 100 people by boat from Misrata, Libya to Tunisia. The majority of the patients had suffered war-related injuries.

The boat departed Misrata on April 15, arriving in Zarzis, Tunisia, early this morning, with 64 war-wounded patients and 45 other people. While in Misrata yesterday, the MSF team was able to assess medical facilities in the city, where ongoing fighting has cut off the population from external assistance and hospitals and clinics are overwhelmed with casualties. The evacuation followed a similar one on April 4, when 71 people were transferred from Misrata.

“For weeks now, health structures have been struggling to cope with the influx of patients,” said Dr. Morten Rostrup, an MSF doctor who participated in the medevac operation. “They have been lacking medical equipment and personnel to treat the wounded and the sick suffering from chronic diseases. With the latest heavy bombardments in Misrata, the situation is worsening as hospitals have to discharge patients before their treatment is completed in order to treat those wounded by fighting. Many of the injured cannot even access medical facilities without further risking their life.”

The MSF team also assessed the situation in a camp near Misrata’s port, where thousands of migrants have taken refuge and are awaiting repatriation.

Continue...
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=5192&cat=press-release
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. LPC #Zintan: describes humanitarian situation, water scarce, Gaddafi forces demolished wells
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
56. LPC #Zintan: major offensive launched against Gaddafi forces 40km east of Zintan
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
57. Fiery protests rock Swaziland
http://mg.co.za/multimedia/2011-04-14-fiery-protests-rock-swaziland/

With the crackdown on media in Swaziland there have been few photographs making it out of the country. These images from the ground show the heavy police presence and efforts to crush the teachers and students protests.

(Automated slideshow that takes a while to load. I had to refresh the page after a while for it to show up.)
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
58. Northern vote could force run-off in Nigeria
The body of late president Umaru Yar'Adua is in an unmarked grave in this northern city, buried in the sandy soil along with many voters' hopes here that the country's ruling party would have chosen a Muslim candidate to run in Saturday's election.

Nearly a year after Yar'Adua's death, northerners still feel it should be one of their own leading Africa's most populous nation -- not the Christian southerner who inherited the job and is now seeking his own term. While President Goodluck Jonathan remains the clear frontrunner, the north's unease could force a potentially volatile run-off vote.

"People are still feeling the death of as he was a son of the soil," said Lawal Dogo, a cleric who ministers at the grave site.

In order to win, Jonathan must receive a minimum level of support from across this enormous country of 150-million -- a complicated formula somewhat similar to the United States electoral college system. He cannot win the presidency outright unless he carries at least a quarter of the votes cast in at least two-thirds of states and the capital.

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-16-northern-vote-could-force-runoff-in-nigeria
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
59. Mubarak to be moved to Egypt army hospital
Egypt's ousted president Hosni Mubarak will be moved to a military hospital until he is well enough to face interrogation in a corruption investigation, the prosecutor said on Friday, as the army rulers seek to show they are serious about putting him on trial.

Little is known about what ails the 82-year-old Mubarak, who was admitted to a hospital in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh on Tuesday, shortly after he was questioned by prosecutors over corruption allegations.

State media said he suffered a "heart crisis" but medical sources at the hospital, and an unnamed official on the state news agency, said on Friday Mubarak was in good health.

A senior security source said Mubarak was likely to be transferred to a military hospital just outside Cairo within a few hours, which would be his first trip back to the capital he left when he stepped down on February 11 after mass protests.

"Hosni Mubarak will be transported to the International Medical Centre along the Cairo-Ismailia road, given his need for special medical care," the source told Reuters.

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-16-mubarak-to-be-moved-egypt-army-hospital
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. Photos of Misrata - dr_hamza's photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_hamza/

Some people might remember Saa'a Square in Misrata from the exuberant celebrations right after the city was claimed by the protesters. A few days before there had been peaceful protests that were met immediately by live fire and several deaths. There was firing on the funerals the next day, and that night the protesters split into three groups, one attacking the base where the soldiers came from, one group at the airport, and one group at the state security and police headquarters, which was burned. The next day there was banner waving and celebrations.

Now you'd be hard-pressed to recognize the place. Thanks to "dr_hamza" for the photos, and especially the captions.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
61. Cartoonists Honor a Fallen Libyan Street Artist
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 02:27 PM by tabatha
Kais al-Hilali, a thirty-four-year-old Libyan cartoonist, was shot and killed late last month while painting one of the political street murals for which he was locally famous. According to witnesses, he had just drawn a caricature of Muammar Qaddafi on a wall in Benghazi (above) when the bullet hit.

The network of international cartoonists is tight, and when a fellow artist dies unjustly, word travels fast. It saddens and enrages cartoonists, and their response is to draw.

Hilali was locally known—and watched—for drawing cartoons of Qaddafi on both paper and street walls.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/04/kais-al-hilali-libya-artist-cartoonists.html#ixzz1JiS6Nd3J





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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
62. Video: Misurata's Tripoli Road at Ramadan Aug 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjNfz5UQYsI

Go ahead, go for a nighttime cruise.

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. Misrata vorher und nachher
@JumbaluSvenska
Volker Rodehorst April 16, 2011

Full sized photo: http://twitpic.com/4lpbex

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
63. Video: Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna reports from Benghazi
8:48pm
Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna reports from Benghazi and discusses the fresh attacks launched by pro-Gaddafi forces in Misurata.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16

Also reporting on progress in Brega.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-16

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9y2-L6i6Nk&feature=player_embedded
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
64. K/R --
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 03:13 PM by defendandprotect
By MAAMOUN YOUSSEF, Associated Press Maamoun Youssef, Associated Press – Sat Apr 16, 11:36 am ET
CAIRO – A court ordered the dissolving of Egypt's former ruling party on Saturday, meeting a major demand of the protesters who wanted to ensure that the party that monopolized the country's politics and government for decades is definitively broken after the fall of President Hosni Mubarak.

The court verdict against the National Democratic Party appeared to signal that the Egypt's ruling military was trying to move more swiftly to meet protester demands. It came only days after the ousted Mubarak and his sons were put under detention for interrogation on allegations of corruption and responsibility for the killings of protesters by police.

The protest movement had been pushing for both steps for weeks, with little response from the Armed Forces' Supreme Council, the body of top generals that has held power since Mubarak's Feb. 11 fall. In the meantime, tensions grew between the council and the protesters, some of whom accused the generals of protecting the former president.

The tensions peaked a week ago, when troops attacked protesters massed in Cairo's central Tahrir Square in a pre-dawn raid, killing at least one.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110416/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
69. Nervous Tripoli tweets
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 03:40 PM by Iterate
Without authoritative news available, it's almost become a nightly routine of nervous tweets of distant gunfire around Tripoli.

@KCLibyaHurra: #TRIPOLI : Explosions and heavy anti-aircraft fire being heard now in the capital.

@IbnOmar2005: #tripoli source: There are snipers in mizran, shara3 omar-mukhtar and fashloom, so many #gaddafi forces dressed in plain clothes.

@LibyansWB: #TRIPOLI #LIBYA : Air strikes on the capital and its suburbs. The heaviest anti-aircraft heard since campaign began.

@machahir123: Reports said that #NATO warplane had struck a Gaddafi position in #Tripoli.

@Libya17Feb: From #Tripoli: "I can Confirm to you, Petrol has finished in Tripoli, I'm outside one station now, There is over 60 Cars in Queue "

@Tripolitanian: Heavy fighting in streets of #Tripoli

@fpleitgenCNN: Signs of protest in #tripoli #libya. Burned out busses near Fashloum. Told it happened ten days ago. http://plixi.com/p/92959434

@Tom_Rayner: Plans for anti-Gaddafi demonstrations in #Tripoli may have been thwarted by fears of govt agents posing as rebels http://ow.ly/4ASDJ #Libya

@FromJoanne: #Tripoli Interestingly a Press Conference is about to start right now in Rixos Hotel just as things are hottening up outside :)

@feb17libya Feb17Libya Unclear what caused #Tripoli explosions, but anti-aircraft fire came from north and north-eastern parts of city

@LibyansWB: #Libya : the strikes have hit : Alenjila, 27km portal west of #Tripoli , Al-Injila and Salah Al-Dine.

@biladee: #Tripoli 15 jeeps carrying anti-aircraft racing past #Rixos Hotel heading west followed by Gaddafi soldiers in a bus

@FreeLibyanman: many friends in #Tripoli disappeared just 4 making phone calls,wt the hell world expect if they go out 2 protest. unbearable life

@feb17voices: LPC #Garyan: checkpts between #Tripoli & #Garyan manned by Gaddafi's rev. cmte members + young pro-Gaddafi soldiers, look 14 yrs old

ETA
FlashNewsPlus: Al Jazeera has reported once more that #Gaddafi forces were bringing Scud missiles to #Sirte
@WilliamsJon: BBC team in Tripoli report heavy anti aircraft fire close to hotel where foreign journalists staying in capital



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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. I wonder if NATO is trying to take out Gaddafi munitions stores.
If they can destroy some of the 1500+ tanks that Gaddafi has before they even hit the road, that is smart.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Sure, there are a ring of bases around the city.
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 04:33 PM by Iterate
Most are publicly identified, and it's where the best equipped forces were located, extending out to a base near Zawiyah.

There are two other areas of military concentration, one being Sirte and the other farther south at Sabha.

I've seen some Nato attacks being described as attacks on Sirte, when more accurately it means the bases, weapons storage, and shipment points outside of the city, mostly south of there. I've seen that misunderstanding in some DU posts as well. If there were attacks on the civilian areas of Sirte, I'm sure Libyan state tv would be the first ones on the scene with a film crew.

The bases in the Sabha area have gotten less news coverage (it's somewhat remote), but it's important in its own way because that's where one of the best airbases, biggest weapons depots, and chemical weapons facilities were built. It gained importance in the Libyan wars against Chad back in the 1970's and 1980's (which Gaddafi lost). Some weeks ago, mercenaries were shown in a video arriving at one of the airstrips that are part of the complex there.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Thanks for all your updates today, Iterate.
I had to go out with family all day and was unable to be on, I had completely forgotten about it until my brother woke me up by screaming in my face (I'd even forgot to lock my apartment).
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. no problem, I "knew",
as in I knew that everyone would be busy today (and far overdue for a break). You have more backup than you think. Besides, I've had the bad luck to learn the hard lesson of what a marathon battle is like - you just have to pace yourself. Maintaining the things that keep you going is the most important part of a long struggle.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
74. Day 59 here:
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