Michael Moore: "The joke's on us, folks."

[kpete]

MICHAEL MOORE ON BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

The following email was sent out by Michael Moore about corporate tax dodgers:

Do you wonder (like I do) what the tax accountants and executives are doing over at GE this weekend? Frantically rushing to fill out their IRS returns like the rest of us?

Hardly. They're taking the weekend off to throw themselves a big party and have a hearty laugh at all of us. It must really crack them up to see us like suckers scurrying around to make sure we report everything to Uncle Sam -- and even send him a check, if necessary.

The joke's on us, folks. GE and tons of other corporations will have a tax bill for 2010 of ZERO. GE had $14.2 billion in profits in 2010. Yet they will contribute NOTHING to the federal government while every last dime is soaked from us.

In the latest budget deal, our politicians could have tackled the deficit by stopping the flow of these ill-gotten billions to corporations. Instead they cut billions from "wasteful" programs that do "wasteful" things, like create new jobs, drive economic growth, and help the needy and our nation's children. It's Democracy in reverse and it sickens me.

....................


http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12607

[myrna minx]

1. K&R n/t

[bif]

2. Man, I love Michael Moore!

The commy pinko that he is!

[Oceansaway]

3. K&R...n/t

[iwishiwas]

4. What a downer!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Thank you Michael Moore!

[IndyPragmatist]

6. His general message is right, but he is clueless....

My girlfriend works for Rolls Royce as an accountant here in Indianapolis. And guess what she is doing this weekend? Thats right, she is working all day today and tomorrow to go through their books and make sure they pay as little taxes as possible.

It takes a lot of work to pay as little as they do. The tax code wasn't set up to allow them to exploit it. They have to do A LOT of work to find all the loopholes and deductions available to them each year. Yes, its wrong, but its not as if they just log on to Turbotax, spend 15 minutes putting in their information and file a tax return that doesn't owe the government any money. It is a lot of work. My girlfriend knows that first hand.

Leave it to Michael Moore, who needs "facts", because he can just claim anything he wants, just like Rush Limbaugh and the idiots will hang on his every word. He is really trying hard to make everything us vs. them.

We are scurrying around like ants but they are fat cats in their yachts. Grow the fuck up michael moore you piece of shit. We are all victims!

[theophilus]

9. His general message is right. He is clueless. He is a worthless

piece of shit. CONFLICTED MUCH? I think you need to hone your message a bit. Maybe post on another board or something. Michael is making a point that needs to be made.

[IndyPragmatist]

12. his general message is that corporations exploit the tax code...

which is correct, but he just comes up with some bullshit to make that point. Large corporations have many people working full time on their taxes year round. The tax code is very complicated, and it takes a lot of effort to pay no taxes, as GE did.

Michael Moore wants you to believe that GE just filed their return in a few minutes, and came out with no taxes, while you must spend many hours and hours filing your taxes, only to have to owe money to the government.

I'm sorry, but that is the EXACT type of shit that Rush Limbaugh does. He will be right about something (which is very rare), but he will follow it with a bunch of lies and inaccuracies to infuriate the right wing listeners. Just as Michael Moore is writing this to infuriate his left wing followers.

[demwing]

20. If you are bothered by his style, don't read or listen

But why so serious? Is it really just the hyperbole you oppose, or the message itself? Your outrage seems as exaggerated as your depiction of Moore's rhetoric.

[ArcticFox]

23. I don't think Moore's message meant that corps don't spend time on their taxes

And, actually, much of the tax code was set up to provide them loopholes. Who do you think writes that legislation?

[Lefta Dissenter]

84. EXACTLY

Read http://scholarcitizen.williamcronon.net/2011/03/15/alec/
Learn about ALEC

ALEC is writing our legislation!!!


Who funds ALEC?
http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

Private Enterprise Board Members (as of December 1, 2010)

Ms. Sano Blocker, Energy Future Holdings
Mr. Don Bohn, Johnson & Johnson
Mr. Jeff Bond, PhRMA
Mr. Bill Carmichael, American Bail Coalition
Mr. Derek Crawford, Kraft Foods, Inc.
Mr. John Del Giorno, GlaxoSmithKline
Mr. Matt Echols, Coca-Cola Company
Mr. Jim Epperson, Jr., AT&T Services, Inc.
Mr. Michael Hubert, Pfizer Inc
Ms. Teresa Jennings, Reed Elsevier, Inc.
Mr. Ken Lane, DIAGEO
Mr. Kelly Mader, Peabody Energy
Mr. Bernie McKay, Intuit, Inc.
Mr. Mike Morgan, Koch Industries, Inc.
Mr. Kevin Murphy, ExxonMobil Corp.
Mrs. Sandra Oliver, Bayer Corporation
Mr. David Powers, Reynolds American Inc.
Ms. Maggie Sans, Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Mr. Russell Smoldon, Salt River Project
Mr. Toby Spangler, Altria Client Services, Inc.
Mr. Roland Spies, State Farm Insurance Co.
Mr. Pat Thomas, United Parcel Service
Mr. Jerry Watson, Chairman Emeritus

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jakes Progress]

52. The bullshit is that anyone would think like you.

No one figured GE worked on their taxes for five minutes. Nothing in the OP says that. Just because you girlfriend works to help corporations exploit the tax loopholes that they paid the politicians to put in, doesn't mean that Moore is wrong. It means that you don't get it.

Moore stands up for the rest of us. You stand up for the corporations and the hard, hard work they must do to crap on the people.

You say that Moore is appealing to the left wing. Just what wing are you appealing to?

[sad sally]

67. These poor corporations are the ones who's lobbyists have written those

complicated tax codes. While I don't agree with Baldwin's flat tax idea, he does make some good points about who writes tax laws:

Who's responsible for the Internal Revenue Code, that cesspool of exemptions, exclusions, gimmes, gotchas, phase-ins, phaseouts and grandfather clauses? I used to blame it on lobbyists. Now I have a new theory about who the culprits are. Grandfathers.

If you want a taste of what a grandfather clause lets you get away with, read Stephane Fitch and Janet Novack on the Pritzker fortune (p. 142). The story boils down to this: The rich are different from you and me. They have offshore trusts.

Try to park your money in a Bahamian trust now, and you will be taxed just as if it had never left Chicago. The Pritzkers are in a different situation. They set up their trusts in the early 1960s, before Congress cracked down. They still get juicy benefits, because Congress was kind enough to put in a grandfather exception.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1124/021.html?du

[lildreamer316]

69. Who would think that by reading what he wrote?

I believe you underestimate our reading comprehension.

[rucognizant]

72. Unfortunately..............

Yes it IS a lot of work to deal with those deductables! I KNOW, I used to run a small business. $35,000 per year didn't leave much to pay an accountant, online hadn't really happened yet. I did it myself. THEY, reformed the tax code in 1986......at disadvantage to small ( tiny ) business owners, Did away with income averaging. If you had a slow year followed by a great year, you paid off the top to the IRS, FIRST; THEN paid your small suppliers with what was left! If you were lucky you got a little for a treat! The average income stayed flat, and costs climbed, soon there weren't enough customers to keep the business going.
Unless you are over 55 years old, or were a young genius running a business, you don't remember how business were run then. The goal was to provide good customer service so they would return. Then the population doubled and now who cares? More customers where they came from.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

77. Monstrous horseshit.

Michael Moore wants you to believe that GE just filed their return in a few minutes, and came out with no taxes, while you must spend many hours and hours filing your taxes, only to have to owe money to the government.

I'm sorry, but that is the EXACT type of shit that Rush Limbaugh does. He will be right about something (which is very rare), but he will follow it with a bunch of lies and inaccuracies to infuriate the right wing listeners. Just as Michael Moore is writing this to infuriate his left wing followers.

Support the bolded parts. Or any of it; but especially the bolded parts.

[bluerum]

78. Nice try. But it is not Michael Moore that infuriates me.

[leveymg]

88. Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh are from different universes. Stupid comparison.

[hootinholler]

94. Image gratutitously stolen

Thanks!

Here's the closest I have to make the point:


-Hoot

[mvd]

93. Moore points out the LOOPHOLES, as others have said

For example, having the company pay the income taxes one owes. Or exploiting corporate-friendly language written into our tax laws. Moore understands that this takes effort in some cases. The point is that corporations can get away with things that individuals would be laughed at for.

Moore is NOT like Limbaugh since facts have a left-wing bias.

[cali]

11. wtf? the tax code may not have been set up for them to exploit it

but it's clearly not that hard to do. And no, Michael Moore is not just like Limbaugh.

Sniff, sniff, sniff. You emit a certain odor.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndyPragmatist]

17. No, he is spewing his regular bullshit

I am amazed. Some of you on here can come off as very intelligent, with a great understanding of what is going on in the world.

But you act like Michael Moore is the highest authority on politics. The man is an idiot. I was amazed all the people that regurgitated his ridiculous claim that banks are intentionally withholding loans to the middle class to widen the wealth gap. Yeah, that's it. Banks don't care about making money, they just care about screwing over the little guy.

Let me guess, you also believe that you can go to a bank in Colorado, open a bank account, and they will give you a handgun on the spot.

America is in a sad, sad state. And it's people like Michael Moore, Rush Limbaugh, and Glen Beck, that are making up lies just to line their own pockets (Capitalism: A love story....of the irony).

[Martin Eden]

19. Far from it ...

... on what you claim Michael Moore is spewing, on lumping him together with Beck & Limbaugh, and on what you assume (or assert) to be my personal beliefs. Did GE pay taxes on their corporate profits? If you can prove they did, then Moore is either mistaken or "making up lies."

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BobbyBoring]

33. Banks don't have to make loans to make money

We just gave them most of it and BTW, they are NOT making loans.

[Casandia]

41. Hmm....."you act like Michael Moore is the highest authority on

politics. The man is an idiot."

Good arguement, sock puppet.

[Casandia]

96. This, of course, was sarcastic, and you

still are a sock puppet.

[Luminous Animal]

54. That would be a bank in Michigan and one would have to open a CD account

and yes, it did happen and the Chicago Sun Times reported about it BEFORE Michael filmed his movie.

http://www.webcitation.org/5YAIv8uxD

[bjobotts]

56. You're so full of it.Banks borrowed from treasury at 0% then loaned it back to treasury at 3%.Easy $

[bjobotts]

57. No one claimed Moore expert on anything, just insightful.Unlike the others you mention

[bjobotts]

58. The spending cuts only go to pay for the tax breaks to corps and billionaires

[bjobotts]

59. We all know we don't have a spending problem except for defense.Just a revenue problem

[bjobotts]

61. Moore points that out but you're too pretentious to acknoweledge it & compare him to Beck

[bjobotts]

62. This has never been about the budget.Roll back Reagan tax cuts-prob.solved

[bjobotts]

63. Corporate welfare and Michael gets the message out there while you just yawn.

[prairierose]

92. Boy, good use of logical fallacies...not...

those sweeping generalizations and ad hominem attacks work great for most repugs don't they? But they do not work so well here, sock puppet. Give it up.

[lunatica]

18. Your argument has nothing to do with what Michael Moore is saying

Your girlfriend must be so proud. How do you two justify what she does? The money?

[dana_b]

24. really? "piece of shit"? you put him in the same

category as Limbaugh.... amazing.

Moore wants what is best for the American people. Limbaugh wants us to be slaves to his corporate masters. Moore may not know that your gf is working this weekend but the truth is that Rolls Royce will be getting a huge amount of tax breaks through loopholes because they are a fucking corporation!! We use turbotax and it only takes 15 minutes because we get NO loopholes - there are none there for us!! We have to pay more because Rolls Royce and the rest of them pay little to NO taxes! What don't you get about that?!

[Enthusiast]

28. I have never heard anyone on DU

call Michael Moore clueless or a piece of shit. You are wrong on every count. I think you should return to whatever dark and smelly right wing crevice you emerged from.

It isn't that we don't respect other opinions. It's that we have so few voices and Michael Moore is one of our more cherished ones. Just imagine how you would feel if someone said something bad about Glenn Beck. Don't bring that stuff in here.

[anneboleyn]

42. Yes, we must sound the troll alert. Sigh. Why don't they go to a film or something instead?

I know this is one of those philosophical questions that will never be answered, but why do trolls feel compelled to post bizarre rants on DU on a Saturday instead of going to a film or otherwise enjoying the weekend? Why spend it visiting a website one clearly does not belong to in terms of ideology? I agree with your thought that the troll should go back to freeperville or wherever else he came from. I am so tired of this nonsense creeping in to spoil our discussions on DU. It is so depressing to read a post in which a person doesn't get that his girlfriend is being exploited (in the sense that she is working extra hours on the weekend) by a company trying to avoid taxes. All of this seems to be lost on the troll. Sad isn't it?

[anneboleyn]

31. do you realize that your post about your girlfriend at Rolls Royce merely reinforces Moore's point?

Is your post intended as irony? As a parody of the corporate rationale? If not, it will no doubt give many of us a chuckle as you just reinforced Moore's point -- that corporations making enormous profits go to any length to avoid paying taxes. And they squirm out of billions, while the "little people" pay out with no chance of sheltering funds or finding clever deductions. The fact that the company exploits its labor force (your girlfriend) by forcing an employee to work extra hours over the weekend so the corporate powers can avoid paying taxes reinforces Moore's point, again.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. It's cheaper to pay lobbyists to insert loopholes

and your girlfriend to exploit them than it is to pay taxes.

Moore is right in his facts. He's right in his message. He's right in his tone. He's right in his outrage.

The difficulty of finding the tax loopholes which are unavailable to the rest of us isn't relevant to the point. Loopholes exist which allow the sheltering of 16 billion in profits, it's an unacceptable situation, and I don't really care that your girlfriend's livelihood is based on that status quo.

[classof56]

40. So Rolls Royce is just now filing their taxes?

Methinks not, but if this is the way your girlfriend is spending her weekend, I hope they're paying her overtime. Even if they do, I'm guessing she pays way more taxes than her employer.

This post has been well debunked by many other responses, whom I pretty much agree with, and leads me to conclude you somehow found yourself to the wrong board. Michael Moore is one of the voices in the wilderness I and other DUers rely on for the speaking truth to power thing. Oh, and you really shouldn't oughta compare him to Rush and his ilk. Flushes your credibility right down the drain, for me anyhow.

Good luck to ya!

[anneboleyn]

43. Yes, thanks for calling bullsh*t on this. I find it rather hard to believe as well.

Troll alert.

[Divernan]

90. I think his girl friend is spending the weekend with a fatcat Rolls purchaser!

[Luminous Animal]

44. Hahahaha!!!! Corporate taxes were due March 15th. She's a month late.

[pa28]

46. Yeah. I guess they got an extension.

:rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

50. ; ) Then they are due September 15th. His girlfriend can go back to bed and sleep in tomorrow.

[anneboleyn]

65. But -- she works for ROLLS ROYCE! They must have special rules! (hee hee)

As many have pointed out, we appear to have a troll in our midst posting a total bullshit lie about his girlfriend supposedly working on taxes for a company -- taxes that were due a month ago, etc.

[Starry Messenger]

83. Zing!

:thumbsup:

[sabrina 1]

45. Michael Moore is right. And it's not our problem

if you choose to take him so literally. We all know what he means and we all know it is obscene how little these billionaires are contributing to this society.

He is really trying hard to make everything us vs. them.

No, he's not. He doesn't have to. It IS 'us v them'. All he does is point it out.

[bjobotts]

53. You're clueless Indyprag.His point is they are not bothered by tax burdens in the least

[bjobotts]

55. Any tax problem would always be to their benefit.No worries ever.Not like us

[Swampguana]

68. You're on your own in this argument

I think it would be hard to find anyone on DU who would believe the same as you on this issue. Just because they find loopholes in their taxes doesn't make it okay for them to pay nothing. If anything you're saying there's something wrong with the system.

[Thunderstruck]

70. Are you fucking stupid? You just proved Moore's point. Go shopping or something.

[OwnedByFerrets]

81. Fuck YOU, asshole...you are the CLUELESS one

and in case you didnt hear me the first time, FUCK YOU ASSOLE

[Duck]

85. Finally

I wondered when someone would speak up. Morons can't be reasoned with, why some here keep trying is beyond me.

[liberalmike27]

87. Yea Indy

You sort of attack the guy, then confirm everything he says with your own post!! Do you think your accountant GF is who MM is talking about? No, she's the hired help, to assure they get the breaks talked about.

I agree, you're misplaced here.

[av8rdave]

91. Wow...just wow

Moore's point is not about the amount of time it takes to prepare taxes. It's about the AMOUNTS paid (or not). Doesn't it bother you that you pay taxes on your wages from McDonalds, while an entity that makes BILLIONS pays none?

The right wing stupidity is truly amazing.

Edited for punctuation.

[Historic NY]

7. We need to start call them corporate parasites........

they suck everything in and give nothing back.

[xchrom]

8. recommend

[babydollhead]

10. yup

[bullwinkle428]

13. And yet GE's fucking lackeys in Congress moan and wail every day about

the "horribly penal" corporate tax rate! "It's the highest in the world, and we HAVE to do something about it!!1!" :mad:

[lonestarnot]

14. K & R!

[WillyT]

15. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[eleny]

22. I received this some time after posting about my not wanting to take part in sacrifice

And I was glad to read his thoughts. Until the big money starts kicking in to resolve our nation's financial problems I don't want to be tapped on the shoulder to share in sacrifice. Happy to do it after several years. But just not right now since we've paid enough percentage of our income.

[Enthusiast]

26. Corporations have raided our

representative democracy. The results are destroying the nation. Want an example? Turn on CNN. Watch Wolf Blitzer.

[mmonk]

27. They contribute campaign dollars to the federal government's elected officials.

[defendandprotect]

29. Cheers once again for Michael Moore -- !!!

[90-percent]

30. GE income taxes

Bill Maher has said GE has 975 people that work on their taxes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=572929&mesg_id=572929

-90% Jimmy

[BrklynLiberal]

32. One of the few sources of real truth.

[Amonester]

34. No, Mr. Moore, it's Royalty Revisited.

Only this time, these 'new' Royals can't be identified as belonging to a named familly and 'noble' acquaintances.

No.

This time, they belong to the Court of the 1% King.

[phasma ex machina]

47. "New" Royals? Hardly. City of London snakes still run the show after all these millennia. nt

[Amonester]

86. Yeah, but the Wall Street + K Street snakes have now joined them. nt

[indimuse]

35. Well someone should tell

Obama! heheh...


knr!

[Major Hogwash]

36. We should boycott GE and stop buying their light bulbs.

Let them eat cake.

[tcaudilllg]

37. This time he has a point.

And yeah, that rat bastard Obama appointed as a sign of good will to the Chamber of Demonology needs to rot in a cell.

[Shagbark Hickory]

38. Something tells me those billions ain't coming from lightbulb sales.

[bjobotts]

64. They are arms dealers too plus propaganda merchants. Nuclear power plants etc.

[senseandsensibility]

48. kick for the snark

and the truth.

[Angry Dragon]

49. K&R

[Duval]

51. K&R n/t

[midnight]

60. No Joke, I want to know why GE is not sharing the pain?

[Swampguana]

66. Go moore!

[colorado_ufo]

71. Michael, you're the man!

:bounce:

[greymattermom]

73. so, if corporations are people

they should be subject to the alternative minimum tax.

[offmybrain]

74. What top companies pay in taxes

http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/112560/what-top-companies-pay-taxes-forbes

[Poboy]

75. Recommend

[Plucketeer]

76. And thern there's Andy Britebart in Madison

Reminding hecklers that "Class Warfare IS Un-American" !!!!!!!??????

[Stinky The Clown]

79. The Democratic leadership had their chance and they choked. Blew it. Fucked up.

Instead we're having the "debate" the repubicans want to have.

Fuck it. I'm not even all that upset by this shot anymore. Its what I've come to expect after the last 2+ years.

[bdamomma]

80. I am convinced it a class war

we are being treated like third class citizens and it has to stop

I hope they choke on that greed, just imagine if "greed"was like cancer there would be many fatalities

[OwnedByFerrets]

82. K and R

[mvd]

89. K&R

Moore is right on, as always. For further reading, see this week's Philly Inquirer Currents section. They have a surprisingly excellent article on the two tax systems - one for the working class, and one for the big corporations.

[Xenotime]

95. Tax the all!