What the Founding Fathers Intended

[yngdip]

It seems that Americans have a collective selective memory about the country's traditional principles. In 1776, 1876, even 1976, life was pretty wretched for anyone that wasn't a rich white male.

The USA has a long history of being more interested in making money than basic rights for the masses. A prime example is slavery. Slavery was about the rich staying rich. The color of the enslaved was not important today just as it wasn't important then. Color only served as an excuse as 'public employee' serves as the excuse for our times.

Whenever I hear politicians fondly referencing America's exceptional past, I cringe. Militarism, imperialism, homophobia, sexism, racism, and of course patriarchy and classism are unfortunately a huge part of American history. As long as we ignore that it existed, we will be shocked every time it appears in our modern age. However, there is nothing to fear because the oppressed will fight, will protest, will rebel and will remind the country that although it is highly flawed it is capable of some good.

Because there is a ruling class of 1% and the remaining 99% face many of the same struggles, it gives me hope that injustice (and therefore justice) has become more equitable. White and male might face the same fate as Hispanic and female today--and that is progress.


Things are not good now, but as a woman of color I certainly don't want things to return to the way they once were.

[Paradoxical]

1. Most of the founding fathers were assholes.

Intelligent assholes. But assholes, nonetheless.

Their actions were a reflection of self-determination and not necessarily the benevolent musings of some sort of enlightened class of caring individuals. They didn't give a shit about most human beings.

I frankly couldn't give less of a shit about the founding fathers or the original constitution as they existed hundreds of years ago under staggeringly different socio-political conditions.

[themadstork]

3. IMO they were admirable in that

the most educated/learned of them felt politics ought to be grounded within sound, thought-out philosophy. They had their flaws, but try to get any teabagger today to deliberate intellectually with even 10% of the vigor they did.

And the constitution is a remarkable piece of statescraft. Very few of them cared much about anyone other than wealthy land-owners, but they deserve credit for constructing such a document.

[Gravel Democrat]

6. Most of the founding fathers were assholes.Intelligent assholes. But assholes, nonetheless.

And your tagline is:

"Those fucking green-peace bastards. They may be negligible in numbers, but goddamnit they have destroyed this country."

Sometimes, like now, I feel like I'm living in some kind of nether-world where up is down, peace is war, nukes are green and assholes can talk.

[Paradoxical]

21. My tag line is a joke.

Epic fail on your part.

[Paradoxical]

22. My tag line is a joke.

Epic fail on your part.

[white_wolf]

12. Some were pretty cool.

Read Agrarian Justice by Thomas Paine.

[reformist2]

15. This is crazy - you can't apply 21st century morality to them.

At the risk of sounding silly I quote the movie version of Benjamin Franklin from 1776: "Besides, what would posterity think we were? Demi-gods? We're men, no more no less, trying to get a nation started against greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed. First things first, John (Adams). Independence; America. If we don't secure that, what difference will the rest make?"

[treestar]

17. Yes, in their time, they were the progressives

[Rhiannon12866]

2. I agree with you.

I can't imagine what it must have been like just to be a woman during those times. I guess your lot in life was determined by the husband you got. That's pretty much all that was expected from women. :(

And if we're still suffering from the remnants of sexism and racism now, over a century after slavery ended, 50 years after the Civil Rights Act and almost a century after the 19th amendment was passed, what must conditions have been back then unless you were a wealthy white male? And when I hear about incidents that prove that bigotry still remains, I wonder of we've made much progress at all. :(

on edit: Welcome to DU, yngdip! We're glad to have you with us! :hi:

[HereSince1628]

4. But they made some GREAT memes!

I mean they set pretty high standards for political rhetoric for those coming after them...

"Inalienable rights: Among them Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!"

Only the writers for Superman have done better: Truth, Justice, And the AMERICAN way!

The memes are so good that no one seems to remember or care that Happiness was about pursuing PROFIT every way imaginable, and that the AMERICAN way is about being pwned for corporate PROFIT.

[Gravel Democrat]

5. "the country's traditional principles" were a first for that time period

When was the last time you read the Declaration of Independence? One of the most revolutionary documents ever written. If Washington didn't win, He and Jefferson and a bunch of others would have been hung in public squares and you would be living under a King.

Where were things better for the poor or the non-ruling class of any country?

Do you think the US was the only country that had slaves or poor people that meant nothing to the rulers of the time? Why was the US the only country that had to resort to violence to eliminate the terrible practice? Many other countries allowed the vile practice as you surely know.

The writings of Thomas Jefferson speak for themselves. And if you want to bring up the fact that he had slaves and slept with at least one, he didn't initiate the practice. He was born into it and he saw beyond it, even though most of his contemporaries fought against him:

"...After voting in favor of the resolution of independence, Congress turned its attention to the committee's draft of the declaration. Over several days of debate in the committee of the whole, some wording was changed and nearly a quarter of the text deleted, most notably a passage critical of the slave trade, changes that Jefferson resented.<70> On July 4, 1776 the committee of the whole adopted its final version, which fact was then reported by Harrison to the Congress with a final reading of the Declaration, and the Declaration of Independence was given unanimous approval and sent to the printer for publication and later signing. Journals of the Continental Congress, Vol. 5 (1776)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence


Usually, people that have no respect for the founders haven't read their writings, and usually have no inclination to do so

[bluetex]

7. Troof.

:thumbsup: to Gravel Democrat.

It wasn't (and...isn't) perfect. But it's got whatever's in 2nd. place covered by a mile.

[yngdip]

10. How audacious of you

to assume that I haven't read the Dec. of Ind. Please tell me how relevant these wonderful words were for women or poor people or Native people or enslaved Africans (The aforementioned people made up the majority of the population at the time.) If you wish to be in denial about America's predisposition to espousing ideals that it has a hard time living up to may I direct you to Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Odyssey Dawn, The Patriot Act, or Scott Walker's Budget Repair bill. All have lovely names, just like the lovely words used by these founding fathers. Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.



P.S. Jefferson owned slaves. He was in the ruling class. He may have resented the removal of the slave trade passage, but he didn't turn away his plantation profits.



Just trying to keep this discourse honest.


America loves profit. It's nothing new.

[SlimJimmy]

13. What you don't understand about the true progressive nature of Jefferson could fill volumes.

When are you going to stop spouting sound bites, and start actually reading and understanding the founding documents? Jefferson was a product of his time, but also quite radical in his thinking for his time. Based on your posts in this thread, I'd suspect - you've never read or will ever read those documents.

[Amonester]

14. In all due respect, we're STILL living under a King, and his 'name' is...

GS & KKKoch Bros.


So what was that all about, again?

[SlimJimmy]

8. How, exactly, is the below progress? Unless, of course, you're just looking for some revenge?

I don't think replacing one sub-class with another is ever progress.

White and male might face the same fate as Hispanic and female today--and that is progress.

[yngdip]

9. IMO its not revenge at all.

We live in a world where almost all Americans are treated equally. Race, sexual preference, gender, religion all matter a lot less than they used to. If 99% of the country is struggling together that means there is more equality IMO. The opportunities and the struggle have been decentralized.

[SlimJimmy]

11. You can't be serious? This is the problem with folks with your viewpoint. Rather than bring

everyone up, you'd rather bring certain groups down. Bad form in the extreme, and not very progressive at all. Regressive is a word that comes to mind.

[madamesilverspurs]

16. My first (attempted) conversation with a teabagger

was prompted by his loud assertion that we need to return to the "purity" of the original constitution. He explained that the Bill of Rights screwed up the intent of the founding fathers. I asked his wife, who was nodding silently in agreement with him, if she really wanted to revert to having no rights; she nodded enthusiastically in the affirmative, then nervously whispered that "it wouldn't be forever, just long enough to make things right again."

Gaaaaahhhhhhhh...........


-

[SlimJimmy]

20. It's those ten original amendments that make the Constitution such a powerful document. I'd say

unlike any in the history of the world. I'd just have to shake my head and walk away if I were involved in a conversation like that.

[suston96]

18. What the Founding Fathers intended, they accomplished......

They intended a skeletal framework of government that contemporary and succeeding generations would enhance and adapt for themselves.

The Constitution created that framework in 1787 and since then it has been amended only 27 times.....

....27 times? Let's look at that. The first 10 amendments were and still are the Bill of Rights. Not really "amendments" but instead, declarations of rights.

That leaves 17 amendments. actual changes or appendages to that skeletal framework in not quite 225 years. That is quite demonstrative of inspired political accomplishment. Can anyone find a parallel in history of comparable political genius?

Some things like slavery and the franchise for all were postponed to assure ratification by 9 of the 13 former colonies, but they were certainly not forgotten as attested by those 17 amendments and the means by which they were appended to the Constitution created in 1787.

And this process is available today as those who are still governed by it can amend or append just as has been done, 17 times, in 225 years.

Thomas Jefferson who wasn't there, wrote of the constitutional conventioneers of 1787 - he described them as "an assembly of demigods....". Indeed, they were inspired as some might say, by the enormity of their responsibility in doing what no other peoples had done in human history -

They founded a republic whose authority came not from the divine right of kings but from themselves - the people.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. Welcome to DU. It is true, US history has always been about money,

and the only reason the masses have anything at all is due to our fighting for it. I wish I could agree that a white male will get the same justice as someone of color or a female. I don't see that. But I do see very small incremental steps in the right direction. Yes, things are not good now. But they could be better, and the only way for that to happen is if the masses force the issue. That has always been the only way.