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"No Notice" - Was the Waukesha Canvass Legal? - DailyKos

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:02 PM
Original message
"No Notice" - Was the Waukesha Canvass Legal? - DailyKos
"No Notice" - Was the Waukesha Canvass Legal?
by wiseacre - DailyKos
SUN APR 17, 2011 AT 02:27 AM PDT

<snip>
...
...
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Bradblog.com is an election-issues blog (among other topics) and some Kossacks cross-post there. In Brad's diary "JUST IN: 'State Investigating Vote Irregularities in Waukesha County Going Back 5 Years' ", at comment #12, CTWatcher said:

I am kind of surprised nobody has taken note of this aspect of Waukesha County Board of Canvassers member Ramona Kitzinger:

(Waukesha County Democratic Party)On Tuesday night, I received a voice message from someone in the office of Clerk Kathy Nickolaus informing me of a Wednesday canvass meeting, which I returned the next morning and said I would be able to report into the canvass by noon, which I did. Normally the canvass would begin at 9am on Thursday, as has been the general practice for many years. No one explained why they were beginning the canvass on Wednesday, just to please report immediately.

Before this telephone call, I had not been contacted as the designated Democratic observer, and I saw no public notice of the abnormal canvass time.


These canvassing meetings are covered by public meeting law in Wisconsin, as per the linked document below that explains the certification process.


http://gab.wi.gov/sites/election_admini_93330.pdf (Does not work any longer, but WillyT found one that does (.pdf file): http://gab.wi.gov/sites/default/files/publication/65/post_election_activities_chapter_election_admini_93330.pdf

The board of canvassers is required to meet within 24 hours after the close of the polls to certify the election. and,

1.The meeting of the board of canvassers is subject to open meeting laws and is open to the public to observe the canvass process.

2. Municipalities that do not conduct their canvass on Election Night shall provide notice to the local media at least 24 hours in advance of the meeting.


bottom of page 101


<snip>

Kos Piece: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/17/967725/-No-NoticeWas-the-Waukesha-Canvass-Legal

:kick:
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. wooHOO!
great find!!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Spread The Word !!!
:hi:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Recommend
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Thank You !!!
:kick:
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. K & R n/t
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. A law is broken. Who is above the law?
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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. compliance must be the FIRST thng a meeting does and certify it.
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 02:31 PM by karnac
Don't see how she can avoid it.

Check out how Sauk county did it.

http://www.co.sauk.wi.us/countyclerkpage/sauk-county-board-canvassers-special-meeting-april-07-2011

http://www.co.sauk.wi.us/sites/default/files/meetingminutes/canvassminutesapril072011.pdf

Note that in this case they *mailed notice to the media* Feb 23. a full two weeks.

Doesn't say what constitutes "Local Media" It could be a tiny local paper that doesn't even bother to post something like this.

I see two distinct scenarios. Both plausible.

1. she gave proper notice but screwed up on the date/time. If she reschedules she has to wait another 24 hours before it can begin. rushes the meeting start so she can stay in compliance.

2. she noticed she screwed up counting the unofficial tally for the media, got frantic. in the rush to CHA she started up canvassing early so she can announce her error was corrected by others. of course the date/time on the medianotice is wrong.

So you need to ..

Get a copy of the notice and find out who it was sent to.
Get a copy of the meeting minutes.




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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Proof she complied....
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 03:12 PM by karnac
Note: I don't have a copy of the notice or the meeting minutes BUT....

http://www.waukeshacounty.gov/Committee/166/PDF/6434.pdf?terms=canvassers

http://www.waukeshacounty.gov/SearchWC.aspx?find=canvassers

on April 1st, she DID post on the county website that the canvassing meeting WOULD happen AT April 6 AT noon. that is WAY over 24 hours.

Does this constitute public notice? probably. Media notice? i don't know but i think its grasping at straws.

Remember, we are dealing with a 80 year old woman AND an error prone clerk.



.
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Greybnk48 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. "error prone" LOL!!!
She's an operative, based on her past "errors" NOT an "error prone clerk." And the Dem canvasser is not dotty by any stretch. She was manipulated by the Repug operative, Nicholaus.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. k and r
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. A law may have been broken, but once the vote is certified... That's it.
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 03:30 PM by Ellipsis
You pursue those that broke the law. You can not however revoke the certification
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. So, it looks like the point's moot.
A post above shows that public notice was given.

Canvassing on Thursday, as the observer said had been the practice for many years, would have violated the rules laid down in the PDF: The canvassing meeting had to be held within 24 hours of the polls' closing. They closed the evening of 4/5. The meeting was held the next day, on Wednesday. Had they waited until Thursday, they'd have violated that 24-hour provision.

In fact, by saying a lack of public notice would require that the canvassing board hold its meeting again you're asking that the 24-hour rule be violated.

The rules are badly written. On the one hand, if the meeting isn't public, it could be held invalid. On the other, if it's held invalid any meeting that would be held would be invalid. There's no remedy under the terms of the PDF; presumably that means the election in that jurisdiction would have to be held again. However, knowing the results in other jurisdictions would constitute a kind of impermissible bias, so the election would have to be held again in the entire state.

The remedy is more harmful than the violation.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick !!!
:kick{
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badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. So what's the bottom line? Does it make any difference?
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