The Obamas: A two-thirds pay cut in 2010

[sinkingfeeling]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/18/news/economy/obama_tax_return/index.htm?hpt=T2

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- President Obama and the first family earned about two-thirds less in 2010 than the year before, and donated about 14% of their income to charity.

The Obama family, in tax returns released Monday by the White House, reported an adjusted gross income of $1,728,096, down from about $5.5 million in 2009.

The Obamas reported paying $453,770 in federal taxes. They donated $245,075, or 14% of their income, to 36 different charities. Fisher House Foundation, a charity that works with veterans, took home the biggest single donation.

Obama is donating the proceeds from the latest book, "Of Thee I Sing," to a Fisher House scholarship fund for children of fallen and disabled soldiers. This year, the contribution was $131,075.

Also released was the return of Vice President Joseph Biden and his wife, Jill. Their adjusted gross income was $379,178, on which they paid federal taxes of $86,626.

[inna]

1. almost 2 million in 2010? why is it so damn high?

[TheWraith]

3. Almost entirely income from books, I would imagine.

After all, it's not like he's doing lecture tours, and his salary isn't that high. But I'm sure there's still plenty of people buying Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope.

[GoCubsGo]

5. Yup.

The latter needed a second printing to meet the demand.

[GoCubsGo]

4. Book royalties. n/t

[inna]

43. would be interesting to know how that compares to other presidents' income,

while in the White House. inflation, etc. taken into account, of course.

[bluestate10]

44. Royalties from book sales plus $400,000 for the Presidency. nt

[inna]

51. any clues?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=917102&mesg_id=918847

[bluestate10]

65. Less than all recent Presidents except Ford and Clinton.

Every other President back to Kennedy was a multi-millionaire at the time of his Presidency. Obama comes closes to Carter, but falls behind both Bushes, Kennedy, Reagan, and Nixon in terms of wealth, accounting for inflation puts Obama even further behind.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. It's always a pay cut...

...while they're in office.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I hate to say it

but this is not a man of the people... nor are any other members of the ruling elite. We do not call that a democracy.

I feel the rotten tomatoes are flying in my direction and I don't give a flying rats ass.

[Freddie Stubbs]

8. True, most people don't donate 14% of their income to charity

[bluestate10]

45. What a wonderful world we would live in if most people did.

14% is a pretty sizable chunk.

[dsc]

93. yeah but those of us who can't itemize

get a much worse deal than those who can. If I gave 14% of my income to charity, I would still not be able to deduct any of it vs Obama being able to deduct all of his. It was probably the only decent idea Bush had so of course the republicans in congress then wouldn't pass it.

[Kalun D]

96. When

You assisted in the $700 Billion giveaway to the crooked criminal bankers

this is called a TOKEN.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Igel]

14. Some would have to say yes.

Those who claim that nobody can get rich without basically stealing it or doing something illegal to get the money.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the general rule when it's necessary to protect one's group.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. a manichean view of the world is not what I am talking about

when I say that we have an oligarchy. The INDIVIDUAL might or might not be "evil", but the group and pressures from the group are such that no, we have not seen the power structure (on both sides) working for the people.... no matter what populist language is used.

We've been here before... and it took pretty much marching in the streets, and yes actual people killed.

[inna]

11. at least that explains certain "disconnect", doesn't it. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Yep... we have been here before

but it will take something dramatic for the Oligarchs to get it... there I said it. we LIVE in an Oligarchy and parties and elections are show at this time.

They could become effective again... as it has in the past... but the first step is... recognizing the problem.

[bluestate10]

66. No more than it explains why FDR and Kennedy are revered. Both were stunningly

wealthy and lived in gilded circles.

[inna]

70. good point. when you're right, you're right. nt

[dionysus]

15. do you donate 14% of your income to charity?

jimmy carter has a net worth of 5 million. damned no good elitist!
:eyes:

[SidDithers]

17. +1...nt

Sid

[dionysus]

22. vaht? waz you shaying shumthin to meeee? check this vid out;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1yvS_m_7eE

[SidDithers]

26. Eugene Levy did some great stuff back then...

his Alex Trebel is pretty good too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB6KFa7-6B4&feature=related

Sid

[Fuddnik]

39. Some of us need every dime to stay alive.

He paid over 10 times in taxes than I earned last year.

All of mine goes to a mortgage, car payment, extortion (aka insurance), utilities, gas, and food.

So no, I didn't have 14% left over to donate to charity. However, they did get my good, used clothing, books, and other things.

[noamnety]

77. I would rephase the question.

Do you donate your disposable income after the first million per year that you keep for yourself?

A 14% donation from a regular person is not the same as a 14% donation from someone who has an annual salary guaranteed for life of almost $200,000 whether or not they continue working - on top of their current million dollars per year income. Setting them up as a comparable sacrifice is offensive. It's offensive for the exact same reason republican logic about tax breaks for the rich is offensive.

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[Kalun D]

102. Token Chump Change

when you assisted in the Bush boy's $700 Billion crooked banker bailout.

[SidDithers]

18. Haven't you written books?...

Would you not be "of the people" if you were getting those kid of royalties?

Sid

[Cali_Democrat]

19. LOL

I think you summed it up very nicely. Although he did give a alot to charity, he's still clearly a member of the wealthy ruling elite.

[Renew Deal]

21. Lookup the year Obama became a "millionaire" and get back to me.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Obama is currently a member of the wealthy ruling elite

It doesn't matter when you join the club.

[Renew Deal]

25. "Currently"

:rofl:

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Is he not?

[Renew Deal]

29. Was he when you elected him?

[Cali_Democrat]

30. Of course

He was a Senator and he was wealthy---->> Wealthy ruling elite.

He was then and he is now.

[bluestate10]

46. President Obama freely admits that he and his wife are wealthy

and do not need tax cuts that are being given to the rich.

[Renew Deal]

20. Right, a guy who lived on the street for 1-2 days before he was allowed to enter Columbia

And was unemployeed 12 years ago is "the ruling elite." What BS!

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Well, what can I say? if you do not get it

you won't.

By the way save the you just called him evil for having money shtick, I don't equal money with levels of goodness or evil (that is a GOP tactic, going back to oh the 16th century) But if you do not understand that people who have a lot of money live outside the economy and are not as affected by it's ups and downs, I can't help you.

Jaysus, say anything to the effect that YES we live in an oligarchy and people get defensive. Well WE DO... and I ain't joining no cult either. I have my eyes fully open by that fucking thing called US HISTORY. I know we've been here.

By the way you know WHO ELSE was a member of the ruling elite and was accused of treason for his actions? FDR... look it up. Hell there is a book on him with that tittle to be exact.

[Whisp]

64. go win a lottery so we can kick your elitist ass.

:rofl:

jeebus crispies but you make no sense.
I think you need a refresher course in what 'ruling elite' means.

[ProfessorGAC]

76. ". . .I don't equal money with levels of goodness or evil. . ."

Oh yes you do.
GAC

[Kalun D]

97. The Big Diff

""By the way you know WHO ELSE was a member of the ruling elite and was accused of treason for his actions? FDR... look it up. Hell there is a book on him with that tittle to be exact.""

the difference is FDR gave us Social Security, and Obama is trying to take it away, with the first step that is the "SS tax break" that is de-funding.

[bluestate10]

48. A drove his wife on their first date in a car that had a hole in the floor.

President Obama is not ruling elite. Becoming wealthy and giving 14% of what still is small earnings by comparative standards is rather impressive. I am proud that I voted for the man.

[Kalun D]

98. Huhhh?

then who are these guys sitting on the right and the left of Obama if not the ruling elite?

These guys are criminals and they should be in jail, not appointed by the president to positions of banking authority.



When you were front/center in the Senate pushing the Bush boy's $700 Billion crooked banker bailout through, this 14% is

TOKEN CHUMP CHANGE

[yawnmaster]

24. I think the lingering question is, can anyone of such means truly be representing...

people of much less means?
I have an opinion but not an answer.
And that opinion is, in general, of course, that no they can not...that they can only understand "classes" below them second-hand, and I'm not sure that's really understanding, but more of an intellectual exercise or a data point in a political strategy.
Even those that work themselves up from a lower position to a very wealthy position, in my opinion, forget much or things have changed since they were in the working class.
There may be individual exceptions and again, my opinion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. And your opinion is supported by history

Of course there is this thing called Noblese Oblige, that is no longer what the cool kids do.

[bluestate10]

50. FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington.

All from wealthy upper class at the time of their Presidencies. I rest my case.

[yawnmaster]

84. Any others from the 250 years of this country? pretty poor percentage. I now rest my case. eom

[Kalun D]

100. It's Not Just About Class

It's about what you DO.

$700 Billion for the crooked bankers that intentionally caused the problem in the first place

banking criminals appointed to positions of banking oversight in the admin

ZERO prosecutions of banking criminals from the Obama "justice" department, when Reagan indicted/convicted 2,000 bankers during a smaller very similar crisis

BP the largest enviro disaster in the history of the world, Obama admin ran interference so the press couldn't cover it, and repeated BP talking points including an Obama family "swim" that was in a fricking BAY and not the Gulf. They also allowed 1000,'s of gallons of Corexit to be sprayed, toxins intentionally dumped on top of toxins so they could hide the amount and thereby pay less fines. After the fact ZERO prosecutions by the Obama "justice" dept. of all the criminal acts by the known criminal executives at BP.

Supported the Social Security "tax break" which is just a disguised de-funding of SS, that the scumbag repugs have been trying to implement for DECADES. It took a corporate bagman "democrat" to do it.

[bluestate10]

49. FDR was stunningly rich. You fail, go to the back of the class. nt

[yawnmaster]

85. In his case, his intellectual excercize worked. FDR and very few others...

are exceptions to the rule. The ideology they followed, the intellectual research they did, or plain luck, worked for the time. But that doesn't mean they had any real understanding of the middle class and below.

From an ivory tower you can see far, but you can't see the details.

btw, I much like the back of the class. I have found the front row to be full of kiss-asses and people who have forgotten their glasses.

[Arkana]

27. Money doesn't make a person evil.

It's what they choose to do with it that does.

And the fact that there are people here who take all rich folks, put them in a box, and label them "UNCARING BASTARDS" are forgetting that FDR and JFK also came from rich families.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Did I say that? no

so come back back to me later.

But most people who have wealth have a certain disconnect from the rest of the world as they no longer live in the same economy you or I do.

That is a fact jack, and you can take that to the bank.


Of course if you are among the wealthy elite, forgive me, you and him do live in the same economy then.

[bluestate10]

55. "That is a fact jack, and you can take that to the bank."

A fact in your mind. Some of the nation's most inspiring Presidents came from wealthy upbringing and were wealthy at the time of their Presidencies. The lone exception seems to be Abe Lincoln, who was born poor and became a man of financial means before being elected President.

[metapunditedgy]

37. But evil does make a person money.

And then there's the love of money, of course.

[Arkana]

79. True.

And that's why it's so easy for people to say "You're rich? Then you must be a ratfucking sonuvabitch!"

[bluestate10]

53. On DU it does. DU seems to have an undercurrent of members

that are simply enraged at anyone that has economic success. There are some good people making money, those people share that money with the less fortunate.

[OnyxCollie]

72. David Koch gave $2.5 million to the American Ballet.

What a great guy!

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Ironically, his income was high because of the popularity of his books

which came from a lot of individual decisions to buy them. That's about as democratic a way of earning money as you can get - they spent the money on something with 'Barack Obama' on the cover, and of which he was the producer.

[intaglio]

38. No rotten tomatoes

Just wondering why you're talking out of your ass.

Do you deny people the right to earn what they can from their own labour? Which in this case is writing. Do you wish to deny a person the right to be paid for doing a difficult and dangerous job? Remember for Obama it is a doubly dangerous job because of the constant threat from racists and nuts.

You say "... this is not a man of the people," do you mean that in the sense that he is isolated or in the sense that he does not have roots amongst the poor and the workers or perhaps that he has made himself part of the elite? If the first you ignore the fact that the job, by it's very definition, isolates and Obama has made some effort to reduce that isolation; if the second you lie and you must be aware that you lie; if the third you would wish on the world a mediocre puppet like "Dubya" to be president.

Do you classify everybody? Oh, John Smith is "of the people" whilst Jack Frost is a "class traitor"? Do you think, along with Marx and Engels that there is a "Lumpenproletariat" who will never be free?

Let me give a name to what you are doing, you are practising reverse discrimination. You think no-one should be allowed to excel and you despise those who do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I could suggest a few history books

and sociology books on weatlth but I won't.

Oh and here is one more thing... given that yes I wirte... and like most writers I know this is not a fancy profession.

That said, I could recommend a few sociology books but I shan't... all that fancy learning' won't make a tinker's damn of a difference.

And yes thank you for the tomatoes, you added some stinky eggs. After all nobody has said that people should not be rewarded for work... that ain't even close to the center of the argument...

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. So what is the centre of your argument?

In a thread about Obama's 2010 income, you say he's one of the 'ruling elite', and this is not 'a democracy'. If it's not about the money he earned for writing those books, then why bring it up in this thread about his income? Why not say it somewhere else where your argument will be obvious?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I suggest you look up what the terms I used mean

Serious.

Start with Oligarchy and move on from there. Suffice it to say the US actually fits the definition (once again, the last time where it was this obvious was during the Robber Baron Era)

There are dictionaries of political science out there. I am pretty much almost done with trying to teach the meaning of words, which have definite meaning.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. So you are saying that income is irrelevant

and so your objection is nothing to do with the OP.

OK, your problem is that he is one of a 'few'. These, then, are the few that were president of the Harvard Law Review? Or anyone who went to Harvard? Columbia?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Again look up the definition of olgarchy

plural ol·i·gar·chies
Definition of OLIGARCHY

1
: government by the few
2
: a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes; also : a group exercising such control
3
: an organization under oligarchic control
See oligarchy defined for English-language learners »

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oligarchy

I am done trying to explain this, Suffice it to say, no it does not have to do with the President only. It is a system... and no, not just Russia (another good example) is an Oligarchy. IN fact, the similarities are down right scary. Citizens United pretty much made it very much official

Now if you feel this is an attack on Barack Obama... have fun with that one... really.

If nothing else the last ten years have shown a few real ahem... weaknesses in our political system... a few that the Founders (another particular religion) did not envision, nor could envision

[bluestate10]

60. The definition of oligarchy is right.

But the application seems to be twisted to support a tunnel viewpoint. I fail to see how someone that gives 14% of their income to charity is part of what you claim he is. Do you realize that once federal, SS and Medicare taxes are accounted for, close to one half of the Obama's 2010 income either never came to them, or was given away? If you want an oligarch, go find a person that is taking advantage of tax shelters to shield every penny of income from taxes and who gives nothing to charity. Try picking the right fights.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. So, in a thread about the President's income, you're not talking about the president, let alone

his income. And I had to drag that out of you, and you're done trying to explain.

Thanks for being so helpful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. His income is a symtom

look up again... how oligarchies work.

This is like poli sci or history 101, or both.

(And it is not his salary as a public servant by the way, there is a valid reason why it is where it is)

[Obamanaut]

78. Look up the spelling of 'symtom', or use the spell check button. It is

much more impressive to have all the words spelled correctly when educating the rest of us.

The 'check spelling' button prior to pressing the 'post message' button suggested a change to 'symptom.' Imagine that.

[Kalun D]

103. Yes Income is Irrelevant To This Argument

It's ACTIONS that count

Obama has consistently come down on the side of the monied elite. Even before he became president.

Bush boy's $700 Billion crooked banker bailout?

[bluestate10]

58. Circular arguments are just that, circular. I guess you should stop,

I have read posts and have yet to decipher meaning or a message. I don't dispute that there are bastard wealthy and rich people in america, but to imply that anyone of means is impure by default is folly.

[bluestate10]

57. If you find it's center, let me know.

The post seems to ignore that many writers make fortunes writing.

[bluestate10]

56. There are writers, and there are not writers. Some can make an enviable

living from writing, others are better spending their time on other pursuits.

[Obamanaut]

74. "...given that yes I wirte..." 'Spell check' is a good tool for 'wirters'. nt

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ecstatic]

81. +1 nt

[Shiver]

86. I'm an (unsuccessful) writer as well.

And I fail to see her point. If she is a writer, than she should know it's damn hard work, despite what people may think. Drafts and edits and research, dealing with failure and rejection, knowing that you might have to keep your day job even if you get published. Finding the time to write is as hard as actually writing in some cases - I have to treat it like a second job that I'm not getting paid for.

Suffice to say, anyone who can become successful through writing, deserves every cent they earn from it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. And most will not get paid well

that is one of the myths about writing.

A few outliers, see Stephen King, who even a dresses this in his writing books, don't mean squat. If you equal success with income then 99.99999% of American Writers ARE failures.

Congrats.

[Shiver]

88. No, most don't get paid well.

That wasn't my point. My point was that any income actually earned from writing is earned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. And I have sold pieces

again AND?

We are talking of two different things here... you know apples and oranges kind of a thing.. thank you for the personal attack, as well as trying to distract.

[Shiver]

91. I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore.

I was making no attempt to distract, and had no intention of coming across as hostile.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. I give up, I could recommend the sociology material

on this, or the poli sci material on this... but why bother?

I would suggest reading on how oligarchies work though.

Have a good day.

(Yes it should be like poli sci 101 level of material, but I have come to realize it ain't)

[Shiver]

94. You keep saying you're not going to bother recommending something that could

apparently help people understand. Why? Recommend away. As I have stated, I am an aspiring writer, and I love to read almost anything I can get my hands on, especially stuff that may increase my knowledge and improve my writing.

Name the books, and I will see if I can find them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. If you really want to, start with Democracy Inc

It is widely available still...

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kalun D]

104. Bashing the Schools

promoting privatization and anti-union efforts

de-funding social security with a SS "tax break", something the repugs have been trying for decades

a $700 Billion dollar tax giveaway to the very bankers that intentionally caused the problem in the first place, appointed the same bankers to positions of banking oversight. ZERO indictment/convictions of the criminal bankers, when Reagan convicted 2,000 of them in the 80's.

to point out these facts is not reverse discrimination, it's got ZERO to do with that. This is class warfare by definition.

Obama is a class traitor because he did not start out rich and he does like to portray himself as of the people.

[rury]

52. Have some rotten tomatoes...

President Obama's money comes from his salary as a public servant and the sale of his books.
He never ran a business and kept the bulk of the money for himself while paying workers a mere pittance for doing all the real labor.
AND he gave 14 percent of his earnings to charity.
Money alone does not make one bad...what counts is how you come by that money and what you do with it.
President Obama is an honest and kind man!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Thanks, at least you are honest

That said, you are also missing the core of the argument. It don't have a thing to do with Obama, but with a SYSTEM. Do kindly google up OLIGARCHY

I am glad I did hit a nerve or two. I even got fans chasing. THANKS guys and gals... what can I say?

[Whisp]

61. sure you hate to say it...

how much do you donate from your income, Nadin of the people?

[ecstatic]

80. If you wrote a book that became a best seller, would that make you a bad person?

Is everyone who started with nothing and ended up with some money evil?

[BobbyBoring]

101. No rotten tomatoes for you!

At least not from me

:fistbump:

[PBS Poll-435]

7. I, personally, applaud the Obamas on their charity. Especially the Fisher House

Nice to see that number way above 10%!

[bluestate10]

67. I applaud them too and look forward. nt

[NCarolinawoman]

9. Biden has been in government for a very long time.

He never seems to have gotten really rich like so many of the others. I imagine that he could have become super wealthy, if so inclined.

[BillyJack]

71. +1

he could have become super wealthy, if so inclined.

I like Joe. (Don't 'love' Joe, just 'like' him).

[Tarheel_Dem]

12. That's quite a reduction in income. Glad to see the charitable contributions. (nt)

[walldude]

35. Well,

at least now that his income is down he'll be able to relate to people who are at this very moment deciding to buy food or medication.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Or heat... don't forget about that one

:hi:

[bluestate10]

62. Help out. Contribute time and/or money to a food bank. nt

[msanthrope]

68. Nadin, when are you going to donate 14% of your radiation-free milk to children in need? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

83. I doubt it.

Well, at least now that his income is down he'll be able to relate to people who are at this very moment deciding to buy food or medication.

I sincerely doubt that.

I don't find his actions all that empathic or compassionate toward us 'lesser' people. :shrug:

[BlueCheese]

73. I don't begrudge the Obamas their money...

... or comfortable status.

I do wish there were more people in government who have recent first-hand experience with not being so comfortable. The elected officials, the lobbyists, the press--all of them are well off. And then things like extending the Bush tax cuts for the rich while cutting LIHEAP happen.

[LanternWaste]

99. To a subsistence farmer living in Rwanda, I am a member of the ruling elite

To a subsistence farmer living in Rwanda, I am a member of the ruling elite. I am oppressing the third world. My spending habits... my conspicuous consumption of unnecessary goods (books, the occasional DVD, food other than bread and water, etc) holds many, many people, cultures and economies back.




I either justify and rationalize that out of existence, or accept that the difference between what I do and what the "ruling elite" does is merely in degrees rather than in kind.