Are bathroom breaks now a no-no?

[xmas74]

I have one break a day at work-a half hour meal break. There is no other time to take even a five minute break. My break is nearly seven hours into my shift.

Today, I had to use the restroom. I held it for almost ninety minutes, until I had to take care of other business. (Without going into details we'll just say that it's "that time of the month". The women here will understand.) I had forty-five minutes until my break time and I couldn't wait. I found someone to relieve my area and I went to the restroom. I was in and out in less than five minutes.

When I returned to my area my supervisor was there, asking me what time my scheduled break was. I told her the truth. She asked where I was. I told her the truth. She informed me that I would be receiving a written reprimand, since I left my area before my scheduled break. I tried to explain but she didn't want to hear about it. Towards the end, I even said what I had to do, talking about things I hate to talk about. (Fear of leaking was used in the conversation.) No matter-in the a.m. I'll have a write up, my very first.

There has never been a rule about this in the past. Is there something I'm missing here? Is the workplace getting so nasty that even an unplanned bathroom break is verboten? Am I just being silly?

[lonestarnot]

!

[BIGFOOTSDADDY333]

126. next time change it right where you stand and stick the used one

right on your supervisor's face

[lonestarnot]

1. Quit or file a grievance and call OSHA do whatever you can.

[villager]

5. Absolutely. Fight these fuckers with a "counter-blizzard" of paperwork and complaints.

Contact the ACLU if you have to.

[lonestarnot]

9. Call the TV box fucks, strike, picket, dance but fight!

[xmas74]

8. I can't afford to quit.

I'm supporting a child with this pittance.

I'm looking into options but I wondered if this is becoming more common in low wage jobs.

[cameozalaznick]

155. You can't afford not to quit this crummy job...

Trust me, God, the universe, the field, whatever you want to call it, will find a way to take care of you. But you have to respect yourself. I've always been astonished at how well this works.

Once, rather than lie to my boss, I told him that I was going on another job interview and he should consider that my two week notice. And guess what? I actually got the job I interviewed for and I ended up working there for nine years.

It works. Trust.

[tabatha]

2. That is ridiculous.

What would happened if you had a stomach ailment?

Also, I believe that in CA, two ten minutes breaks are allowed besides lunch.

[xmas74]

10. Problem is,

I'm in Missouri. They don't have that kind of law on the books.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Federal laws protect you.

This is illegal. I'm sure of it.

[xmas74]

26. I'm sure it is somewhere.

The problem is finding the right outlet.

[lonestarnot]

39. State dept of labor wage and hour division might be the place.

:shrug:

[Nay]

66. It is illegal, by Federal law. Doesn't matter what state you are in. Also,

you have to have a lunch break (around half an hour) and two 10- or15-min breaks in each 8-hour shift, and the company can't shove all the breaks at the end of the shift, either. They have to be reasonably distributed so ppl can go pee, etc.

[LiberalFighter]

71. Not true.

Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks. However, when employers do offer short breaks (usually lasting about 5 to 20 minutes), federal law considers the breaks as compensable work hours that would be included in the sum of hours worked during the work week and considered in determining if overtime was worked. Unauthorized extensions of authorized work breaks need not be counted as hours worked when the employer has expressly and unambiguously communicated to the employee that the authorized break may only last for a specific length of time, that any extension of the break is contrary to the employer's rules, and any extension of the break will be punished.

Bona fide meal periods (typically lasting at least 30 minutes), serve a different purpose than coffee or snack breaks and, thus, are not work time and are not compensable.



Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract.
Breaks and Lunch for Youth Workers- under the age of 16

Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees, including youth workers, a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract.

The entertainment industry, however, DOES require breaks and rest periods for youth workers. A youth cannot work more than five and one-half hours without a meal break. Additionally, a 15-minute rest period (which counts as work time) is required after each two hours of continuous work for youth in the entertainment industry.

[iris27]

72. The lunch break, yes, the other breaks, no. I'm also in Missouri, and in retail, and

I make the schedule for my department ("team lead"). There may be a federal law saying you have the right to pee when you need to without having to wait for a break, but aside from lunch, breaks are not federally mandated.

Our company allows one 15-min paid break and a 30-min unpaid lunch, but the 15 is not guaranteed -- if it's a time of year that's too busy, they can take it away. I've heard a lot about various laws relating to this because our company has stores in several states - I know CA requires a lunch for anything more than a 5 hour shift. But I've never once been told about a federal law requiring any break besides lunch.

[lame54]

138. Federal is the only recourse the op may have

http://www.labor.mo.gov/DLS/General/breaks.asp
Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract.

Breaks and Lunch for Youth Workers- under the age of 16
Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees, including youth workers, a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract.

The entertainment industry, however, DOES require breaks and rest periods for youth workers. A youth cannot work more than five and one-half hours without a meal break. Additionally, a 15-minute rest period (which counts as work time) is required after each two hours of continuous work for youth in the entertainment industry.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

91. Lemme guess

Missouri is one of those "right to work" states, right? :eyes:

[xmas74]

103. Not quite

but they want to be. My state rep sent the fliers in last fall, telling everyone how wonderful it would be.

They think we are idiots.

[BIGFOOTSDADDY333]

127. you mean "right to work for less" state........stop

[Proud Liberal Dem]

128. Right

It would be wonderful if states were shoving each other aside to pass REAL "right to work" laws that ensure that all able-bodied persons would be able to find a job that pays a living wage.

[KansDem]

130. You're thinking of "Kansas"

We are a "right to work" <sic> state.

I've never understood that moniker...

[Proud Liberal Dem]

141. Me either

It almost sounds like an Orwellian......or at least Luntzian "feel good" word to fool people into thinking it means something better/different than what it is. :eyes: :puke:

[Art_from_Ark]

171. I think that moniker might have originated from the "closed shop"

system where people who weren't in unions weren't allowed to be hired by certain employers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop

[booley]

92. I'm in Missouri too

for a 7 hour shift you get a 1/2 hour unpaid lunch and a15 minute paid break. When I work a 9 hour shift I get two 15 minute breaks.

It's the law. But it only work when people support it being followed.

And if you file a complaint and they fire you, that's retribution, also a crime.

I know you are in a bad situation but if you wont' protect yourself, no one else will.

[onpatrol98]

134. Mississippi, neither

http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=143&state=MO

Mississippi also has no laws or real unions...although thankfully each place I ever worked at had rule that included breaks. One 15 minute in the morning and one 15 minute break in the afternoon.

You're really at the mercy of not only the employing companies policies but also local management. Get the wrong manager and they can be worse than the owner.

[catrose]

83. What happened to my son

was that he was written up. Lunch sent him quickly and lengthely to the restroom shortly after returning to his desk. Boss complained and wrote him up.

It's a sad day when we're not allowed to take care of bodily functions in our workplace.

[Webster Green]

3. That's legal where you are?

Jeezus. That is insane.

[xmas74]

12. Missouri is trying to become a right to work

state. They are also messing around with the minimum wage laws and trying to abolish all child labor laws.

It's probably legal here.

[Capitalocracy]

27. are you union?

I can't help suspecting they're creating a bullshit excuse for giving you written reprimands to justify never ever giving you a raise.

[xmas74]

30. Not union-yet.

And they rarely give raises in the first place.

[mimitabby]

81. or to make it easier to fire you

for whatever reason.
It sounds like an excuse to me too.

[tabatha]

4. Here is something

http://www.ewin.com/articles/restper.htm

[JVS]

6. Shit in the supervisor's desk.

[lonestarnot]

13. or better yet her lunchbox!

[Capitalocracy]

15. Written reprimands make good TP. nt

[Capitalocracy]

18. This has happened to my wife in a call center

in Argentina. No bathroom breaks without asking for permission... every time you ask, they say "ask again in 15"

For American customers, of course.

(Edit to add: meant to respond to the OP. My wife did not shit on anyone's desk.)

[lonestarnot]

25. LOL. Nice wife. No poopie on de desk.

[JVS]

61. The BBC shows us how it's done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dH1glRYkTE

[Boudica the Lyoness]

149. I enjoyed that

Thank you for the link.

[lonestarnot]

168. OMG ROFLMAO.

[Ilsa]

64. Call centers in Texas are almost as bad.

It's almost impossible to reach a parent at certain ones when their child has an emergency at school. They are required to turn off their cell phones, and you can't get through to them on their company line.

The parent has to stop being a parent for 8 hours.

[lonestarnot]

20. Better than that Koch brand!

[xmas74]

32. That wasn't the problem

but maybe that'll have to happen sometime soon!

[pipi_k]

78. A few hours after taking a strong laxative....

:puke:

:rofl:

[sudopod]

82. LIKE A BOSS nt

[Carni]

88. I'm pretty much in this camp

And while you do whatever business is necessary... announce loudly to the customer's that you apologize for the inconvenience, but it is the policy of your company/employers to make the employees--urinate, defecate, or handle personal hygiene matters at their work stations because they are too cheap to allow employees breaks.

This is the worst thing I have heard of in a while and WTF kind of a ghoul is that supervisor?

I wish you could tell us the name of the company, so that if it is national, I could boycott it!

[xmas74]

104. National, no.

Try international.

[LuckyLib]

106. Name this company. Out them for the heartless SOBs they are.

[xmas74]

112. If I did that

there's always the possibility that I would get caught. I still need this job.

[Carni]

110. Is it a chain that ...

Starts with a W?

[xmas74]

113. Nope.

It's actually a company that was founded outside of the US but now has a majority hold in its field. Basically, it's become a monopoly that few even know about.

[Carni]

116. Is it German?

And do they primarily sell groceries?

[xmas74]

119. No

But it is European.

[Carni]

121. Hmmm - I am drawing a blank

I'll have to consult "the google" lol

[xmas74]

123. Or just check your pm.

I'll say it there but I won't put it on a forum.

You never know who might be reading this site!

[closeupready]

89. LOL

:rofl: :evilgrin:

[onpatrol98]

136. The OP is right

You have to be careful what you post...if you really need the job...and most of us do.

[closeupready]

174. True.

nt

[Broderick]

183. Ok - funny

Scanning responses and this one just made me laugh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Federal labor law says you can't put in more than 4 hours without a break

You also get a dinner break AND a 15 minute break for every 6 (or maybe 7?) hours you work.

This is for hourly employees. If you're on salary, there are different laws. Hourly workers have more protection.

You should file a complaint.

[xmas74]

16. I've never had that time for breaks,

not at any job I've ever worked.

You know how backward Missouri is. I need to file a complaint yet I won't hold my breath about anything coming of it-except maybe my termination for complaining.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Here. You can search for more info:

http://www.dol.gov/

[xmas74]

35. Thanks. nt

[spooky3]

98. What are you relying on to say federal law requires these breaks? The DOL site says otherwise.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/breaks.htm

This link says what LiberalFighter posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=920010&mesg_id=920892

Maybe you know of another federal law, with a link, other than the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is the major federal wage-and-hour law.

It's my understanding that breaks are usually governed by state laws.

disclaimer: I'm not an attorney.

[BuelahWitch]

33. I've lived and worked in two "right to be screwed states"

Kansas and Utah. Never had a job more than 4 hours where I got only one break. Never worked retail, but I've worked in call centers where they micromanaged you and it's never been as bad as that. Don't accept that it's ok, fight it.

[xmas74]

37. I'm fighting something else right now.

I suspect it's retaliation.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

45. Then you will have another count against them.

For retaliation under Federal law (EEOC). I used to work in Federal Court as a court reporter and took a few trials about EEOC.

[tavalon]

They are breaking federal law.

[spooky3]

99. please post a link to that law - see LiberalFighter's and my posts above.

[tavalon]

70. They are breaking federal law.

[glinda]

84. She should keep records, journal and documentation while she is there of this

and future issues.

[closeupready]

90. Yes, I agree, for a lawsuit. It would come in extremely valuable, IMO.

I am not a lawyer, but that's exactly what I would do.

[joeunderdog]

143. Every 6 hrs you get 30 min meal break, and every 4 you get 15 min.

If you file a complaint about this stuff in my state (MA) you'll see your employer get bitchslapped in a hurry.

[Quantess]

11. Sounds illegal.

[xmas74]

19. Supposedly

there are no laws in my state about bathroom breaks. All business of that nature should be concluded on a scheduled break time.

[Quantess]

50. There are federal laws.

[Nay]

67. All these laws we are talking about are federal, not state. But the states

have to follow them. The laws are federal for a reason -- back in the day, everyone knew states would fuck you over like you are being fucked over, and the law had to be federal to cut all that shit out.

[ZombieHorde]

17. Your supervisor is an extremely unethical person.

The vast majority of adults understand people can not control when they need to use the bathroom. Your supervisor most likely understands this simple fact, but enjoys proving she has power over you.

Which is more likely: she doesn't understand how periods work, or she is a sadist?

Perhaps she was just having a bad day and will apologize tomorrow, but she is probably a sadist and enjoys your suffering.

[xmas74]

22. They are coming down on everyone lately.

Last week they made an employee stay at work with a nasty sore throat. The employee had strep.

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. So.................

you're expected to work for seven uninterrupted hours before getting a half hour break?

Respond in writing to you're write-up if you are permitted. Create a papertrail to document what happened.

If any punative action is taken against you contact your state labor board.


:hug:

[xmas74]

24. I'm cautiously looking into this.

My company has a habit of finding reasons to fire people whenever anyone complains and my state isn't too high on the list of treating employees properly.

[Coyote_Bandit]

36. Even in Oklahoma

- an employment at will state - I believe the state labor board would take up your case and find your supervisor's conduct abhorent.

That said, a new job might be the best option for you if that's possible.

[xmas74]

40. I can't find anything right now.

It took forever to find this-at half my old wages. I was in a lay off and never called back. They chose to hire off the street at lower wages. This was the only job I could find and the market is slim around here.

[Odin2005]

23. That sounds illegal!

That could be in violation of some laws because there are people with medical conditions that cause frequent urination.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

97. bowel diseases too....rather common, actualy

and pure hell, speaking as a survivor.




(hi Odin! :hi: :hug: )

[pipi_k]

120. OMG tell me about it...

I used to have frequent bouts of IBS.

The cramping would come on out of the blue, and the results were, well...extremely unpleasant.

The pain itself made me double over. Add the rest, and yes...like you said...it's pure hell.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

182. oh, I'm always sorry to hear about other people who've had it

or still have it.

Just breaks my heart...

I had IBD, Inflammatory Bowel Disease. Blood. Lots and lots of blood.

finally had a total ileostomy, many years ago.

[Orrex]

28. Next time, simply let fly right there at your workstation

If they can't let the employee to to there the bathroom is, then the employee goes where the employee is.

[Newest Reality]

31. My fellow Serfs:

You yet have no idea where this is going.

As this story reveals, being a "resource" is not anything close to being a human being and it is not far from being an animal in a farming factory.

These types of atrocities, (still practiced in full force in other countries, and once considered a thing from our cruel past) are being pushed slowly and gradually back into our lives. It is just a little more of it here and a little more of it there where enough anecdotal stories and personal experiences combine in a way that let you see how the continual and slow push will lead us to something we now find horrific.

We can expect more of the same and much worse as long as we do not have the collective power to resist this relentless erosion of meaning and values as people.

[KaoriMitsubishi]

55. "...the continual and slow push will lead us to something we now find horrific."

It's leading back to slavery if the neoconfederates and theocrats have their way. If they get their way and hold a new constitutional convention, the new constitution they enact will not contain any restrictions against human trafficking and slavery.

[sarcasmo]

125. +1

[Hissyspit]

160. +1

[Starry Messenger]

34. ((hug))

You're not being silly.

[Duer 157099]

38. It's unhealthy to hold urine in

I wonder if getting a doctor's note would do anything? At least then it can be considered a medical condition (having to pee!) and would be discrimination if they fired you over it.

JFC WTF happened to this country?

[xmas74]

41. I already have one.

I had two UTIs and a kidney stone a few months ago. I took off no time with the UTI and one day with the kidney stone. (The doctor said most take off at least a week or so.) Anyway, the note said that I was to use the restroom "as needed, and as often as possible) and did not give an end date. He further explained in the note that this was to be the norm in the future to "decrease the amount of UTI-like symptoms". This all within a six month time frame.

Besides, they'd find another reason to fire me. Once they decide on something they find ways around it.

[woad]

140. Medical Condition

If you have a doctors note saying that you need to be allowed to use the bathroom whenever needed and they prevent you from doing so, they are in violation of the Americans with Disabilities act of 1994. Contact your state Department of Labor to remedy this. if you get fired for this, then you are also able to sue them for firing you in retaliation of filing a complaint, which is a federal offense.

[darkstar3]

42. That break schedule is a definite violation of Labor laws.

The first thing you should do is ask for an EXACT written copy of the reprimand being added to your file, and a written copy of the acceptable employee break policy. If your supervisor asks why, simply tell him it's for your legal records. Be sure to say nothing more or less. If he will not provide you with a written copy, then he's in double trouble.

The last time this happened to someone I knew in Missouri (in 2009), just asking for a written copy of the reprimand got the entire matter swept under the rug. The employer wasn't looking to tangle with the DOL. If you get a copy of the reprimand and the break policy, the next step is to prepare a written statement explaining your story. When you file a complaint with the DOL, and/or the Office of the Attorney General, this paperwork will be valuable as a submission. Hopefully, however, you won't have to go that far. Just the possibility of action often quiets threatening employers.

ETA: Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer, just someone who's seen a lot of this before.

[glinda]

85. Excellent info!

[snagglepuss]

43. Here's is information that should be useful from expertlaw.com about this.

A few years ago OSHA slapped heavy fines on Hudson Foods of Noel, Missouri for not allowing their employees access to the restroom... in that case, the employer was not allowing ANY access. OSHA ruled in that case that an employer is required to allow reasonable access to the restroom whether there is a statute that requires it or not.

snip

OSHA is really the only one who can answer that question. You might want to give them a call. You CANNOT legally be disciplined or fired for doing so.


Read the entire thread. Hope it helps.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42378&page=1

[hayu_lol]

46. Google Federal Labor Law+breaks...

lots of info to select from.

Another place where the workers just hate unions.

If you lived in a civilized place...this wouldn't have happened.

[tblue37]

162. One important point in your post should be emphasized, since

so many posts on this thread have emphasized that no law in MO requires employers to provide breaks:
OSHA ruled in that case that an employer is required to allow reasonable access to the restroom whether there is a statute that requires it or not.

[donheld]

44. What happens if ALL of your co-workers take a bathroom break

kind of a staged solidarity walk out.

[pipi_k]

122. Good idea, I think!!!

If there are enough employees there to make a difference, why not...

[BrightKnight]

47. That is par for where I work. I thought there were laws but apparently not.

Also, if you take scheduled breaks they will retaliate until you stop. Most of the people where I work have 4 year degrees.

[Versailles]

48. What I could find for you...

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that they have to give a break. However, this is a touchy subject and since it wasn't even just needing a restroom break but an issue that most women understand fully, I'd expect if you wanted to make a case of this, I'd bet OSHA and/or the ACLU would be willing to help you out. Especially with the current focus on labor, this makes a damned good case for why we need unions to negotiate and stand up for people.

Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract.

http://www.labor.mo.gov/DLS/General/breaks.asp

Federal law does not require lunch or coffee breaks.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/breaks.htm

Unauthorized extensions of authorized work breaks need not be counted as hours worked when the employer has expressly and unambiguously communicated to the employee that the authorized break may only last for a specific length of time, that any extension of the break is contrary to the employer's rules, and any extension of the break will be punished.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/breaks.htm

That last one sounds to me like there could be potentially a loophole there for you. If the employer has not "expressly and unambiguously communicated to the employee" that those bathroom breaks are not allowed, they could have a potential problem on their hands. It might be a stretch, but it just using that specific set of words in a quote with a mention of federal law might be enough to put management on their heels a little and back off.

I hope this helps. I'm not a lawyer, and unfortunately I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express so take what I say with a grain of salt and contact your OSHA rep or the ACLU to see if they can give you a better answer. Best of luck and keep us informed on how you fair!

[laconicsax]

49. Call an employment law attorney.

I'm pretty sure OSHA mandates a certain number of breaks, but an employment law attorney will be able to help you.

Your profile says you live in MO, the Missouri Bar Lawyer Referral Service should be able to help you find one. Their number is 573-636-3635

[ThomCat]

51. Blatantly illegal.

As others have mentioned, they cannot deny you a break once every 4 hours under federal law. That and other federal rules must be posted prominently someplace in the workplace.

Tell them that they are in violation of federal workplace laws if they refuse to allow you a break at least once every 4 hours, and punish you for taking one, and that you will hold them responsible for that.

Tell them that if they retaliate against you for demanding your right to a break at least once every 4 hours, that too is against the law.

You could have a really cut and dried lawsuit on your hands. Get everything they do in writing. That reprimand could be damning evidence against them.

If they give you a problem, talk to a lawyer immediately.

[kentuck]

65. Absolutely right!

These are things the NLRB might be interested in hearing about.

[Raine]

52. 7 hours is too long to wait, it's inhumane

no wonder so many women get bladder infections. :sad: :mad:

[KaoriMitsubishi]

53. Take it to the law,

then take it to the press. Punish and humiliate.

[xmas74]

105. We recently had to sign a paper stating that we

are not allowed to speak to the press about any subject pertaining to the corporation we work for. If we do not only will we be terminated but they can also sue us.

[Gormy Cuss]

108. That's probably not enforceable when it's related to workplace safety and sanitation.

Most "papers" like that are 90% bluster. That sort of nondisclosure is usually binding only to "trade secrets," which can include things like employee scheduling practices, descriptions of the work environment and other seemingly minor stuff but I seriously doubt that any corporation would try to enforce it over employees having the right to pee during work hours.

[EC]

150. Sounds like you work for Fashion Bug

or one of their group...don't quite remember - think it was Charm Shoppes...The non-disclosure statements don't cover illegalities..

[moriah]

54. canmybossdothat.com rocks!

http://www.canmybossdothat.com/category.php?id=141

"Most workers have a right to go to the bathroom. OSHA requires 6 toilets (also called “water closets”) for the first 150 workers and one more toilet for each additional 40 workers. OSHA also says that you have to be able to USE those toilets when you need to – there shouldn't be rules which stop you from going when you need to or long lines during break times."

Longer link:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22932

"Toilets that employees are not allowed to use for extended periods cannot be said to be 'available' to those employees."

[pnwmom]

57. That second link looks pretty clear to me. n/t

[upi402]

56. Atlas shrugs

:shrug:

[cabot]

58. Just change your tampon/pad at your desk

and then tell your supervisor's boss that she wouldn't let you go to the bathroom to do it. *of course i'm only partially kidding. i'm an asshole and probably would but i'm not really saying you should.*

[cutlassmama]

63. If I still had periods I would too. Just to be an ass about it. Just the

woman who took off her bra at the security screening at the airport.

[WingDinger]

96. The day they issued me the writeup, I would whip it out and whizz a ll over the place.

Then, I would sue for making me suffer indignity.

[Solly Mack]

59. You're not being silly. File a complaint.

You've gotten some good links in the thread. Use them. Your supervisor should not be allowed to get away with this...

[REP]

60. That's illegal. File complaints with Labor Board, Dept of Fair Housing and Employment, etc

Been there, done that (plus I have mild unflammatory bowel disease - so much fun to explain) and not allowing employees to use the bathroom is illegal. If you have a union, grieve it; if not, file complaints with every state and federal labor board.

[datasuspect]

62. where do you work? 1950?

my mom told me stories like this, but she was in her 20s, it was the 60s, and they monitored people that way.

[Yo_Mama]

68. OSHA Regs at this link

http://americanrestroom.org/gov/ohsa/index.htm

If you get a written reprimand, reply in writing listing the regs, explaining what happened and demanding that the written reprimand be withdrawn.

If it is not withdrawn copy the reprimand and your response along with the timeline and circumstances and contact OSHA. Before you do. go to personnel or to the manager above your manager, explaining that you do not want to cause problems but this will not stand.

If you are fired for doing this you will win the case provided you can supply documentation, so you want the written reprimand.

OR you can take the written reprimand and respond in writing saying that you physically cannot wait to use the restrooms. Go to your doctor and get a note if you can. Then complain to OSHA and request an inspection.

Filing with OSHA:
http://www.osha.gov/as/opa/worker/complain.html

Also check the number of toilets provided vs the number of workers there. If that's not right, you can file a request for inspection. If you file directly with OSHA, they cannot reveal your name to your employer.

OSHA regional offices here:
http://www.osha.gov/html/RAmap.html

No sane employer wants to fight with OSHA. It's money deal. So normally I would go direct to management and document everything in writing. Once you have invoked OSHA rights, if you are fired, harassed, demoted etc you are in an extremely strong position.

If you decide to go directly to OSHA, get some other employees to sign a complaint letter about not being able to use the toilet facilities. A note from a doctor documenting UTIs and employment contacts would be a great support.

You do not have to put up with this crap and you should not.

[spooky3]

100. thanks for the info!

[Shagbark Hickory]

69. Where do you work? A sweatshop or something?

[LWolf]

73. Wow.

I'm sorry.

While I don't have any assigned breaks outside of lunch, I can call someone to cover my classroom if I have to run to the restroom. In extreme circumstances, I can march the class down the hall to wait outside the restroom door.

I'm sure that there is a law somewhere on the books to protect you. I hope you find it.

[Boxerfan]

74. I can't go 2 hours !

Especially in the AM. I have some medical issues & urgent need to pee is a side effect I've dealt with for years. At my last job the Boss knew I would take quick breaks & didn't have an issue with it. After an on the job injury they wanted me gone I guess. The Boss's wife was watching the store for a week & caught me taking a pee break off break time. I was warned I had only break periods for a to pee. I tried explaining but she was firm.

A few days later I treid to use the restroom at break but it was occupied. As we worked outdoors in a wrecking yard-in the country no less-I went to a corner by some trees & relieved myslef.

I came walking back-still on break & she was toe-tapping at the gate . What were you doing over there?. I was honest & saaid-taking a pee-the bathroom was busy.

Youre fired was all she said. Her hubby stood up for the decision...

[pipi_k]

77. Me neither...sometimes I can't even go 30 minutes...

On my last job, I was often the only one in the office. There was a phone in the bathroom, but still, I would have to leave the front desk and walk through another inner office and down a hallway to use the bathroom.

I would often "hold it" as long as I could.

Then one day I got a nasty bladder infection. The doctor gave me meds and told me I should NOT try to hold it...his words, "Go when you need to".



If you have bladder issues, then maybe you could get a doctor's note for future use in your personnel file?

This is one reason why I hate leaving the house (aside from anxiety issues). I know where every bathroom is between my house and the nearest Big City, and have probably used them all, including the woods.

[Carni]

111. As a former business owner employer...

WHO THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE?

I have NEVER and I mean NEVER lectured an employee about using the bathroom--or told them WHEN to use the bathroom. What the hell? If you have to go--you have to go!

I guess I am WAYYYYYYY behind the times!

[EC]

152. It's on some job applications even..

I remember applying for a management position with Target, their application asked how many and length of time it took to have a bowel movement. Also asked how many times a day one went to the restroom.

[Carni]

176. YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING?

Seriously?!? That is just OVER THE TOP!

[EC]

178. Seriously,

as soon as I saw that application, I handed it back and told them I didn't think I had "what it took" to be Target management material and that I would not fill out their app.

[Carni]

181. Good for you!

That is absolutely hideous! What an invasion of privacy!

[tblue37]

165. I usually have about a 20-minute "tank." I need to go wee-wee constantly,

unless I am so distracted that I don't notice the discomfort.

I compare myself to a high-strung thoroughbred piddling at the starting line at the racetrack (LOL).

[octothorpe]

75. Sounds like power tripping BS.

Unless by leaving your area there was a risk of some catastrophic event, it seems like unnecessary useless nitpicking used to make the person feel more powerful. Unless there is a good reason for it, I don't see how anyone can see that being an acceptable way to act. Happy workers tend to be more productive anyway. Someone needs to teach some of those power tripping idiots that.

[nessa]

76. wow. That's incredible. (nt)

d

[CrownPrinceBandar]

79. Just when I think it can't get any worse.......

Sorry, xmas74, I hope you can get some satisfaction from some of the legal avenues folks posted above and I hope you can find another job where they will treat you as a human being. Stories like these crush my respect for humanity.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. Your workplace sounds like hell.

Much of what you talk about is full tilt illegal.

[CrispyQ]

86. A lot of managers are small, petty people who love having control over others.

Some occupations - management, law enforcement, politics - appeal to the very people who should not be in those positions - people who like having control & power over other people. She sounds like one of these types. And if you work for a corporation that also pushes "productivity" & "discipline" memes on management, it's probably even worse.

I hope you have a sympathetic HR person & not a hardliner. Good luck.

[glinda]

87. In early 1970's I was nearly fired for having to go to the Hospital because I started hemorrhaging

at work (not monthly related). I even had to walk to the local Hospital a couple blocks away to go to the emergency room. When I returned the next day I was totally screamed at by my supervisor and warned I would be fired if I did this again ever. As if I could control a medical emergency. ODdly I worked for an Insurance Agency!!!!!!!!!! lol!
I quit after I found another job but the woman ended up having a breakdown.
So long story short, these people might be totally off their rockers as well as nasty. Horrible how things never seem to change after so many years.

[taught_me_patience]

93. This sounds pretty crappy.

You should document the incident and file a complaint with your state labor board.

[in_cog_ni_to]

94. Fucking ridiculous. They try to pull this shit in school too.

I told my son he has MY permission to go to the bathroom anytime he needs to go. If a teacher has a problem with that, they can call me.

If I were YOU. I would lay out all the gory details for HR as vividly as I could. "I was on my period. The blood was getting ready to leak. I was afraid I would have menstrual blood all over the office furniture, dripping down the hallway onto the flooring, etc...." Make it as VIVID as possible. Embarrass them for this shit.

NO ONE has the right to tell you when you are ""allowed" to go to the bathroom. JUST GO. You're not a 3 year old who needs to be accompanied for cryingoutloud.

[Carni]

115. Yep! They do pull this shit in schools!

My daughter just told me about some idiot not "allowing her" to leave class and go to the bathroom at school recently. I told her you leave class if need be, with, or WITHOUT permission, use the bathroom...
then go to the office and have them call me!

Unless they want to pay for trips to the Dr for UTI's they are not going to tell my kid when they can use the facilities.

This is all common sense and using a bathroom should be a basic right!

W....T....F.....????????!!!!!

[tblue37]

164. They do this in schools because so many kids use bathroom

trips to get out of class and mess around--or even smoke or do drugs in the restroom.

[lonestarnot]

169. I pissed their classroom floor once. 2nd grade my mother drug her ass over to the school and the

teacher wish she had let me go to the damn toilet. I will never forget when dale turned to the teacher, when she had asked why I was crying and said "Ms. so and so, I think she had to go to the bathroom." ROFLMAO

[tblue37]

170. Oh, I always had to go plenty, too, and I always told my own kids they could

go if they needed to, no matter what, but I also understand the reasons why the schools are so uptight about bathroom breaks for kids.

[lonestarnot]

172. Never happened to my kid. All of his teachers knew better, as I stayed in touch.

:)

[tblue37]

173. Never to mine, either, but they sometimes told me about

classmates not being allowed to go.

[Carni]

177. I understand that BUT

I was a kid in school too back in the day and they didn't deny us use of the bathrooms.

I went to HS in the 70's so BELIEVE ME there was plenty of drug usage then too.

[tblue37]

180. Yeah, but kids get less and less controllable with each generation, so

efforts at control become more and more draconian (though not usually effective for all that).

[WingDinger]

95. This is what you MUST do.

Next month, minimally guard agains leaks. Minimally. Then, when you do leak, document it. You will have hard evidence of the writeup. Then, when you leak, tell them you will do as you must. They wil write you up again. Then, decide if you want to go all out. GET IN THEIR FACES IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE AND SUE> If not, g to the authorities. That would be on the news. They will cower. I have heard about making women wear diapers in Mexico. We are next. This could easily be construed as an ADA case. You will never have to work again.

[pipi_k]

118. I know one category of women they don't want to do this with...

Perimenopausal women who are having "flooding" issues. Or even younger women with very heavy periods.

I remember going through Peri and having some VERY messy leaking. That's why they call it "flooding". It can look like a murder scene.


I personally would let it leak and not notice until someone pointed it out, then get more witnesses and photos.

[xmas74]

139. I'm pretty sure I'm peri now.

I'm nearing my late thirties and things sure have changed.

[diane in sf]

101. I know you know, but you really need a better job.

[ohheckyeah]

102. I think I would take

my breaks whenever I needed to go to the restroom. I seriously doubt that is an infraction that unemployment would consider justifiable for firing someone. After they have to pay for a year of so of unemployment for you maybe they will rethink their position.

We are in a right to work state and my husband was let go by the new owner of his company supposedly to 'restructure'. When he applied for unemployment she tried to say he was let go for cause. She had no paperwork and unemployment people laughed at her. She did the same thing 3 more times (always to men) and the unemployment board chewed her out telling her to quit protesting the unemployment benefits for people she let go for no reason. My husband collected 2 years of unemployment.

Assholes.

[Gormy Cuss]

107. OSHA says employers must provide facilities and make them reasonably available.

If you decide to respond to the write-up, use the language in this link to describe your situation in that response --particularly making clear what steps you took to cover your absence and how you tried to hold off until your break time but could not. Also make sure you preface all of this by stating "As I explained to ...""

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=22932&p_table=INTERPRETATIONS


I realize that you're in a tough position and need the job but if she's writing you up for this be prepared for more insulting, dehumanizing treatment for the rest of your tenure. Even production lines generally have procedures for allowing someone to step off line for a quick trip to the loo. That she feels empowered to write you up over this is telling.

[Recursion]

109. The state of Misery, er... Missouri

http://labor.mo.gov/DLS/General/breaks.asp

"Missouri law does not require employers to provide employees a break of any kind, including a lunch hour. These provisions are either left up to the discretion of the employer, can be agreed upon by the employer and employee, or may be addressed by company policy or contract."

[jillan]

114. That is inhumane! Go after this bitch!

[DainBramaged]

117. O.S.H.A.

To Report Unsafe Working Conditions or Safety & Health Violations:

Contact the OSHA Office nearest you, see map of offices, or, contact our toll free number: 1-800-321-OSHA (6742)... TTY 1-877-889-5627.

To File a Complaint Form:

To file an OSHA-7 report online, see How to File a Complaint with OSHA.

For more information regarding your rights, see Worker Rights

http://www.osha.gov/html/Feed_Back.html

You ARE protected, you can file anonymously, and it IS a health hazard to force you to hold your bodily fluids for so long.


requires employers to make toilet facilities available so that employees can use them when they need to do so.

[sarcasmo]

124. Life after Unions is only going to get worse. Did you ask if they want you to crap you're pants?

[RagAss]

129. Piss on their fucking desks !

[Sherman A1]

131. When they present you with the write up

simply respond with OSHA rules (citing chapter & verse). That is your bargaining chip, "If A happens, so does B" and follow through, then simply explain that you will indeed file complaints with every local, state & Federal agency that may have jurisdiction up to and including the Coast Guard. Never raise your voice, show any emotion at all, but stare your boss down. I am guessing they will find a way to make this a non-issue very shortly. Then watch your back.....

[Turbineguy]

132. This is bullshit.

They have some crank walking around wasting time that could have been productively used instead? And then they give you a letter?

OK, I guess you spend too long on the NY Times crossword puzzle in the can, right?

Is there a Union you can join?

[Incitatus]

133. I would go over your supervisors head, to human resources at corporate headquarters if you have to.

As others have mentioned, there are laws about this. Your supervisor should know this, but she could just be an idiot. Maybe her boss needs to make her aware of your legal rights.

[rasputin1952]

135. You shold be offered a cahnce for a rebuttal statement...

even if you are not, write one up and make sure you keep it.

At some time in the future, if you come up for a review, you should have your statement prepared, placed in your your file and I would go so far as to go over this individuals head if necessary and get some of the various Federal forces involved.

There is no way people can control biological functions to the extent apparently "required at your place of business.

In my younger days, I would have had a "piss-in", where, people would hold their urine in until no longer possible, then urinate on the floor...we actually did this once...it took only once. I thought it would be embarrassing, 9 guys with urine soaked pants...but precisely the opposite happened, and a supervisor was immediately sacked.

[Taverner]

137. Fuckall I hate capitalism

Good luck with everything

[proReality]

142. Labor Laws--employers are supposed to have them posted in the workplace

http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/osdbu/sbrefa/poster/matrix.htm

[flvegan]

144. Everyone responsible for that procedure should be fired.

That's the type of shit that will run even the biggest company into the ground in a very short time. Legal or not, setting that rule and/or enforcing it is grounds to be called too fucking stupid for words. Go back to school and LISTEN when professor talks about people management.

[MessiahRp]

145. Check this out, Per OSHA:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22932

OSHA's sanitation standard for general industry, 29 CFR 1910.141(c)(l)(i), requires employers to provide their employees with toilet facilities:

Except as otherwise indicated in this paragraph (c)(l)(i), toliet facilities, in toilet rooms separate for each sex shall be provided in all places of employment in accordance with Table J-1 of this section ....

This memorandum explains OSHA's interpretation that this standard requires employers to make toilet facilities available so that employees can use them when they need to do so. The employer may not impose unreasonable restrictions on employee use of the facilities. OSHA believes this requirement is implicit in the language of the standard and has not previously seen a need to address it more explicitly. Recently, however, OSHA has received requests for clarification of this point and has decided to issue this memorandum to explain its position clearly.

[earthboundmisfit]

146. This supervisor sounds like a good candidate for a candy bar gift.

Ex-Lax wrapped in Hershey wrapper, that is :)
Hmmm, I wonder - would she wait till her break?

[Digit]

147. They are doing the same thing where I USED to work

You get 3 mins for a bathroom break...if that bathroom is being cleaned, you must go over to the other side of the building. Oops, too late...your 3 mins are up!

I was "laid off" because I visited the doctor too often...even had the note.
A pregnant woman was let go for the same reason.

Kiss your rights goodbye.

[tblue37]

163. Pregnant lady should have sued. She would have won. nt

[EC]

148. Some are..

I worked at a place for a short time where that would have been considered theft, it was also their policy that using their phone was theft....so I left. Or it could be they're trying to get rid of you for some reason (of course it's only business)and need a certain number of write-ups to do it.

[alarimer]

151. What they are doing is probably illegal.

And just one more reason we all need to belong to a union.

[Hugabear]

153. Sounds like something straight out of the 1800's

This is something you would expect to read about in an account of factory work in the late 1800's, not a modern-day workplace.

[abelenkpe]

154. A long time ago

I worked for AT&T and had a situation remarkably similar. I used the potty before my scheduled break and my supervisor informed me I wasn't permitted anymore bathroom breaks for the day. She confiscated my thermos so that I would not drink more for the day and therefore not need to go. It was 11 am the work day ended at six. I sat at my desk for a total of ten minutes before I got up, swiped my thermos from my supervisors desk and walked out never to return.

Personally I think you're being bullied, should go to human resources and file a complaint with the state. You did the responsible thing making sure someone was covering for you. It is ridiculous for you to be expected to work seven hours with no break. I don't know your state laws but here one is supposed to get twenty minutes every four hours plus a lunch break.

[tblue37]

156. Illegal, I think.

I think all states mandate a half-hour lunch break and at least one 15-minute break during a 6 hour shift (maybe an 8 hour shift in some states).

[Jim_Shorts]

157. A lot of company's are pushing the envelope

If you go to a lawyer he will probably tell you that the only contract the employer has to follow (without a union) is the company handbook, but employers are aware of this and there will be exceptions to every rule in there.

If you watch closely xmas, I bet you will see the same type treatment to other employees, so try not to let them completely piss you off. You notice productivity is at an all time high in this country - it's because they have destroyed unions and government is worthless. Believe me, most company's know exactly what they can get away with.

There is no dignity working for a many employers these days (so you are not alone) I think all you probably can do is put applications in at other company's so you have something to look forward to. (I completely sympathize with you)

[applegrove]

158. Some ceo up the ladder gets a bonus for increasing productivity. Stopping people from going the

bathroom is the latest productivity trick. Pretty sad.

[PatrynXX]

159. tend to use it alot

because my meds give me dry mouth.. albeit I would wonder if being WI or the Midwest and a sudden pressure change came, what would happen if they forced you there with a big time bleeding nose?? Uh yeah Osha my ass. I'd shove it up there face

[struggle4progress]

161. OSHA sets toilet sanitation standards. A quick google convinced me that since Hudson 1998,

OSHA has taken the view that an employer, who will not allow an employee reasonable access to toilet when needed, is not actually providing sanitary facilities

Not a lawyer, but here's what I would do:

(1) Come up with and memorize a short pleasant one sentence answer for such interactions with your supervisor: "I try to use the restroom at times that do not affect my productivity." Stick to that sentence, and don't get in a pissing match

(2) Get yourself a little spiral notebook and document (for yourself only!) your daily use of the company restroom and notes about interactions with the company about restroom use

(3) Get a looseleaf binder for home. You're gonna keep copies of everything it in: any reprimands you get, any letters you write, photocopies of pages from your spiral notebook, &c&c

(4) If you get the written reprimand, don't get in a big argument about it. Craft a pleasant one or two sentence reply, that more or less matches your one sentence answer in (1): no bluster, no threats. One copy is for the supervisor who writes the reprimand; copy it to an appropriate company department like HR and ask that it be added to your file with the reprimand. Mail the copy to HR certified. Save copies and the postal receipts for yourself

(5) Repeat (1)-(4) as necessary

(6) Call OSHA, or write them a nice letter to OSHA, asking whether their policy requires. Take notes and keep them. You might also call state agencies. Your first round of conversations doesn't involve the company name at all

(7) If you get a second reprimand, I think you should really talk to a labor lawyer. But staying calm and documenting will really help you if this escalates

[mrmpa]

166. post tomorrow what happened at work..please

[struggle4progress]

167. 6 April 1998 OSHA Letter: "Interpretation of 29 CFR 1910.141(c)(1)(i): Toilet Facilities"

... This memorandum explains OSHA's interpretation that this standard requires employers to make toilet facilities available so that employees can use them when they need to do so. The employer may not impose unreasonable restrictions on employee use of the facilities. OSHA believes this requirement is implicit in the language of the standard and has not previously seen a need to address it more explicitly. Recently, however, OSHA has received requests for clarification of this point and has decided to issue this memorandum to explain its position clearly ...

The language and structure of the general industry sanitation standard reflect the Agency's intent that employees be able to use toilet facilities promptly. The standard requires that toilet facilities be "provided" in every workplace. The most basic meaning of "provide" is "make available." See Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition, 1988, defining "provide" as "to make available; to supply (someone with something);" Borton Inc. V. OSHRC, 734 F.2d 508, 510 (l0th Cir. 1984) (usual meaning of provide is "to furnish, supply, or make available"); Usery v. Kennecott Copper Corp., 577 F.2d 1113, 1119 (10th Cir, 1978) (same); Secretary v. Baker Concrete Constr. Co., 17 OSH Cas. (BNA) 1236, 1239 (concurring opinion; collecting cases); Contractors Welding of Western New York, Inc., 15 OSH Cas. (BNA) 1249, 1250 (same).1 Toilets that employees are not allowed to use for extended periods cannot be said to be "available" to those employees. Similarly, a clear intent of the requirement in Table J-1 that adequate numbers of toilets be provided for the size of the workforce is to assure that employees will not have to wait in long lines to use those facilities. Timely access is the goal of the standard ...

In light of the standard's purpose of protecting employees from the hazards created when toilets are not available, it is clear that the standard requires employers to allow employees prompt access to sanitary facilities. Restrictions on access must be reasonable, and may not cause extended delays ...

Employee complaints of restrictions on toilet facility use should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to determine whether the restrictions are reasonable. Careful consideration must be given to the nature of the restriction, including the length of time that employees are required to delay bathroom use, and the employer's explanation for the restriction. In addition, the investigation should examine whether restrictions are general policy or arise only in particular circumstances or with particular supervisors, whether the employer policy recognizes individual medical needs, whether employees have reported adverse health effects, and the frequency with which employees are denied permission to use the toilet facilities ...

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=22932&p_table=INTERPRETATIONS

[TK421]

175. Document every fucking word that piece of shit says to you

take it to corporate...reminds me of this asshole of a boss I had years ago. This shithead would stand behind clothes racks and spy on everyone ( some people need to get a fucking life ). There were intimidation tactics used against us as well; too bad I'm not easily intimidated. Four of us got together with a list of complaints and went to the store manager. The day before, we printed out copies of the documentation and sent them to corporate.

nice as pie to us after that, wouldn't you know?

[cigsandcoffee]

179. Are you an air traffic controller? n/t

[Broderick]

184. Seems like someone has eyes

that want to find anything they can to start a process to get rid of you. Might want to be proactive.