Parents, don't dress your girls like tramps

[cbdo2007]

Parents, don't dress your girls like tramps

Grand Rapids, Michigan (CNN) -- I saw someone at the airport the other day who really caught my eye.

Her beautiful, long blond hair was braided back a la Bo Derek in the movie "10" (or for the younger set, Christina Aguilera during her "Xtina" phase). Her lips were pink and shiny from the gloss, and her earrings dangled playfully from her lobes.

You can tell she had been vacationing somewhere warm, because you could see her deep tan around her midriff thanks to the halter top and the tight sweatpants that rested just a little low on her waist. The icing on the cake? The word "Juicy" was written on her backside.

Yeah, that 8-year-old girl was something to see alright. ... I hope her parents are proud. Their daughter was the sexiest girl in the terminal, and she's not even in middle school yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/04/19/granderson.children.dress/index.html?hpt=T2

[slackmaster]

1. The problem arises when all the other girls are dressing like tramps

It's kind of hard to tell your child he or she can't fit in.

That said, schools can and should have dress codes and grooming standards.

[cbdo2007]

4. I think it will be easy to tell my daughter she won't fit in.

Just because everyone else is doing something doesn't make it right.

I'm not worried about her dressing like a "tramp" at school. I'm more worried about it at the mall or airport or the beach or ???

[MineralMan]

8. Really? Isn't that what parents are for? I mean parenting.

Parents tell kids things and set limits. That's their job. It's a hard job, yes, but so what?

Oops. Wrong place. I meant that for the post you were replying to.

[pintobean]

5. "It's kind of hard to tell your child he or she can't fit in."

No, it isn't. If most parents did, the tables would turn.

[Fuzz]

17. Not hard for me at all.

[pintobean]

23. Same here

My daughter never dressed like that. All it ever took was an explanation of why she shouldn't.

[ejpoeta]

33. not hard to tell my kids no. i am good at it. i believe i had someone tell me on here

once that i was a bad parent because i said no all the time. the problem i have had is finding decent age appropriate clothes. i remember when my oldest was like 4 trying to find regular kid clothes for her to wear. all the stores had the same thing.... the bell bottom pants and the trendy shirts that did not look like something my 4 year old should wear. so for me it wasn't what i felt was appropriate... it was more finding the appropriate clothes. i am lucky that my kids have not tried to wear much of that stuff. emily does wear stuff with words on the back sometimes.... hand me downs from cousins. i certainly couldn't see myself buying it.

[seabeyond]

38. and with boys, it was hard. i wouldnt let and they didnt like tshirts with snarky or disrespectful

or i am stupid comments. we literally could not find tshirts for a son that like something on the shirt that did not fall into that catagory. all the shirts had smart ass comments on them.

market does push people in a certain direction

[ejpoeta]

42. i was so mad!! finally i think i found some regular clothes at a store called priceless kids

or something. my kids dress like their age. i let them choose within the allowed stuff. it's not hard. they need boundaries and they are happier knowing where the boundaries are. but it sucks when the stores try to force you to buy their idea of what is hip and age appropriate. at least now i could go online and find stuff if it came down to it. plenty of regular stuff at the good will though which is where we start our shopping.

[seabeyond]

46. right there with you. i also went out recently and i am seeing the style shift a tad where

it is not ALL too small tshirts to the nipples. i actually saw some doable tops

[MineralMan]

45. There's always Sears and JC Penney. If that fails,

a local farm supply store will carry all sorts of modest clothing, I've found. The one near me has a whole line of clothing called "Farm Girl." I have to admit that I don't remember seeing any kids wearing that clothing, but it's there.

[SheilaT]

104. There are t-shirts out there with

nothing written on them. Honest. I had no trouble finding them for my sons.

[MineralMan]

112. And they're available in all sizes, from toddler to XXXL, too.

I see them everywhere. Now, getting kids to wear them between the ages of 10 and 18 is another matter. But, you can buy them anywhere.

[seabeyond]

122. my oldest always wanted those shirts. my youngest always wanted something on the shirt

and it was all about making the boy stupid and didn't want those shirts.

yes, we would have to settle for the blank shirts. or pick up shirt when on trips.... souvenir shirts for the kid that weren't offensive

[seabeyond]

i had a parent tell me that once. so not hard for me. at all. not even

kids start that and get a .... and i care about the other kids... why?

i have boys, peers are not their parents.

my niece that lived here as much as she didn't, knew boundaries. and we got along. and she understood why.

[Cid_B]

26. Seriously...

That is the laziest answer I have ever heard...

You literally stated that it was too hard to tell your child no and that someone else should do it.

[slackmaster]

47. I always let his mom handle those situations when I had a child in the house

Not that I had any real choice.

[emilyg]

28. No it's not hard. Act like a parent.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

39. It wasn't hard for me!

Not in the least. I raised three idividuals who don't care to fit in... fitting in means you are run of the mill, ordinary, plain.

[CoffeeCat]

49. I proudly tell my girls that often doing the right thing...

...isn't the popular thing.

And the popular thing is something laughing at racist jokes, being homophobic, failing
to stand up to bullies, backstabbing others to get ahead.

Our girls are 10 and 11. I've raised them to be confident, strong and to know who they are.

They might not be the most popular girls in junior high--but they will stand up for what is right.

Fitting in these days--can be degrading, immoral and harmful to the emotional health of young people.

[seabeyond]

51. yup yup yup. and when kids were young may have been tough, but older

they shine, respected by others and socially well rounded, well liked and doing well.

[IrishBuckeye]

50. You're a parent first, not their friend

I told me parents "I hate you", "I wish you were dead", ect dozens of times when I was growing up because of restrictions they placed on me. Now that I'm an adult I'm damn well pleased they did their job which included putting those restrictions in place. After all I was a person like all kids and teenagers who's mind wasn't fully developed.

[CRK7376]

78. We're fighting that

"I hate you", "You're not my parents", "WIsh I were anywhere but here or dead" with our 12 yo now. The boys were easy, but daughter is going to be the death of me or my wife....My patience wains quickly around our daughter, but still, we say no....Spooky part is she wants an AC/DC tshirt which I'm ok with, just so it's not Marilynn Manson of Blackveil Brides or crap like that...but then my parents hated my music too, and the kids grandparents truly despise any music younger than say 1951....Be the parent, my kids will not wear that crap outside or inside our house....

[a la izquierda]

87. It was never hard for my mom...

to tell me "no, you're sure as hell not wearing that."

[Warren DeMontague]

2. Why not? It's a good look.

[tabatha]

3. I agree.

[dionysus]

6. FWIW, i see little girls wearing clothes that, when i was in HS (90s), would have

gotten an 18 year old kicked the hell out and told to go home and change...

[MineralMan]

7. I dunno, but the writer sounds kinda pervy to me.

I see kids that age all the time, and they get no more than a glance from me. The detailed description in the article makes it sound like whoever wrote this spent a long time leering at this child.

Actually, I suspect it's a made-up description. The "Juicy" thing seems to always show up in these articles. I've seen it many times in posts railing about provocative clothing for children. I suggest that the author never really saw this anywhere but in his own mind.

[cali]

10. I've seen little girls who look like this

not often, I'll grant you, but then I live in Northern Vermont.

[Bunny]

11. Well, I guess Christ himself will soon be walking amongst us,

because I am actually in agreement with you. Surely a sign of the end times.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, if you read the whole article, the writer goes on and

on about this and keeps focusing on this kid's "sexuality." He just seems a little too damned interested to me.

As for agreeing with me, we probably agree far more often than you think.

[patrice]

15. None of that means you couldn't walk into, say, JC Penney's and see large light-boxed

photos of young girls, wearing skorts, with unbuttoned buttons up the front to make them look like short skirts, and posed sitting with their legs very definitely akimbo.

[KittyWampus]

16. I'm a woman pushing 50 and concur w/observation cited in OP. Juicy is the branding of

Juicy Couture. And there are teens wearing this crap around here.

[MineralMan]

19. I admit that I had not heard of that brand.

Woof! It's OK for the 18+ age group, I suppose. They're supposed to know what they're doing. Under 18? Dad should burn those clothes! I can just about hear my own father's comments had my sister put on anything like that in high school. It would not have happened.

[KittyWampus]

22. And there is now also BABY CLOTHING proclaiming the infant "Juicy".

[MineralMan]

27. Juicy babies? Keep them off my lap, please...

And, no, I don't want to hold your juicy baby. :rofl:

[XemaSab]

59. If you don't want your kid

eaten by a dingo....

[jberryhill]

82. Dad should burn those clothes? You should see the rest of the line

[snooper2]

68. .

[krabigirl]

143. Teens wearing this? um, no biggie. 8 year olds, yeah, that's just...yuck.

[lapislzi]

36. +1 MineralMan nails it.

"dangling playfully?"

Puh-leez.

[darkstar3]

57. Reading the article, I think it's made up.

Not far from the truth, mind you, but I think the author does what you normally do: glance, ruefully shake head, and move on. But when choosing to write about the oversexualization of young girls, I doubt the author could have gotten away with a simple "she dressed like a 2-dollar whore" or something similar. I think, after reading it, that the author actually tried to think of what would look "slutty" and then painted onto a subject in his mind in order to write a narrative.

[jberryhill]

79. Do these look made up to you?

Hint: It's a major brand of young women's clothing, and yes, they print "Juicy" right on the ass.

[darkstar3]

84. No shit, Sherlock, but of course I wasn't talking JUST about the pants.

Neither was MM. Of course the pants exist, and of course they are worn by people who probably shouldn't be thought of in sexual contexts, but that's only one small part of the overall description laid down by the writer. I don't think the writer is describing a real 8-year-old girl. I think he saw a lot of girls in a short time frame who were dressed inappropriately for their age and decided to paint a picture for illustrative purposes in order to rail against the trend.

[TalkingDog]

66. You've never seen the "juicy" pants?

I live in a really small town and I've seen them.

[jberryhill]

71. Juicy is a fairly popular brand of misses clothing

[MineralMan]

102. That's a woman, not a little girl.

She's old enough to decide what clothing to wear.

[jberryhill]

128. Yah, well, I didn't reproduce their entire catalog for the purpose of showing you it is a brand

Geez...

They make them in small sizes for kids, too, and have a whole pre-teen line.



Picky, picky, picky....

[bettyellen]

136. also made in kids sizes for 6 year olds very popular about 8 years ago in NYC

I worked in kids clothing at the time, and it was prevelant. My niece was one of the few who would;t wear it, She modeled them for fit, but said she would never wear them because she neither needed or wanted to draw extra attn from strangers to her butt,

[dionysus]

73. i've seen it before.

[Dorian Gray]

92. My daughter

(now 6 months) was given a Juicy Couture outfit as a gift. The pants have it written on the lower half of her leg. ("Juicy") It is their thing, and they do have sweats that have it written across their butt. I don't think I'd let my daughter wear those.

[readmoreoften]

134. I agree. The "hottest thing in the terminal was 8 years old?" Sounds like he's dealing with a

personal problem to me.

All little girls want to be grown up. And they're hitting puberty as young as 7 these days and doctors don't know why. Let's look at real, material causes and not the same old bullshit "where-re-the-parents-get-off-my-lawn" crap.

[elehhhhna]

145. Yep. If he can't find a hootchily-dressed adult woman atthe airport, he's lookng too long at the 8

year old.

Creepy.

[patrice]

9. One of my "favorite" sights here in Cupcake Land occurs at our community festivals where you'll

see all kinds and ages of "Christian" dollies decked out with multiple crucifixes and wearing the shortest athletic shorts possible with words like "Cheers" LOW across the ass.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Beg to differ.

I would rather my eight year old wear short shorts and halter tops at eight than I would want to see her doing it at eighteen.

Besides, if she was coming from a tropical vacation that sort of attire is standard. Give her a week to readjust to her uptight American community.

[pintobean]

75. At what point in those ten years do you say no

and how do you justify it?

[The Backlash Cometh]

96. I never said no.

Attire was the one choice I allowed my daughter. I figured it out when I would spend hard cash on school clothes, and then at the end of the year I realized she wouldn't wear the clothes I purchased. So we allowed her to "earn" a generous amount for chores over the summertime, and she used that money to buy whatever she wanted. But she never got more $$ than I would have spent on clothes if I had been the one to make the selections.

This has to do with knowing your child. I knew there was an element of free spirit in her, that I would never tame and in fact, should not even try in order to save my authority for the bigger battles. So I allowed her to leave the house with some of the most outrageous get-ups. Truly unbelievable how good she felt about herself with some of the things she selected. She started out dressing extremely geeky and then worked her way up to a slutty stage. But by the time she made it into high school, she went all preppy and conservative. Yeah. It surprised me too.

Now when she talks about it she said that I was all liberal, wanting her to experience things for herself and sometimes had a good laugh at her expense behind her back. She thinks it's funny.

Again, this has to do with knowing your child. She was extremely strong-minded and had blinders like I have never seen in a child. I just knew to allow her to set the pace in this case. I think most people knew her personality and that I wasn't the one putting her in those outfits. Though most of it was the result of peer pressure.

Truly, I hated the elementary and junior high school eras. Elementary School it was all about Limited Too. Couldn't stand to watch the peer pressure that was coming from the especially thin girls who late to develop. Then it was a little better with American Eagle. My daughter learned the value of money because these decisions were up to her. She learned about sales and learned to be satisfied dressing herself in whatever she could find that fit the budget.

Kids wear name brands these days. It's really about identifying with the brands.

And let's get serious. As a mother, you have to decide if you can handle the social criticism from other parents. There's a lot of nasty people out there and this is one way they can get at you. That's why I allowed my daughter to set the pace for herself. Because I could handle everything else.

[elehhhhna]

146. Yep. And when were Bo Derek cornrows on a whitegirl EVER sexy

on anyone but Bo Derek, back in like 1980?

Lazy columnist, full of crap.

[The Backlash Cometh]

147. I love the way you ran that word together. "whitegirl."

There was a time when people of color were referred to as "the black guy" or "the black girl." And white people were referred to by their names. I think it's about even now.

[Shandris]

149. It's very common for white women/girls coming back from Jamaica.

My dad's girlfriend at the time and her 2 daughters all got cornrows in Jamaica. And the pictures they took of their friends during the vacation revealed that so did the other 3 women they associated with most.

[elehhhhna]

150. I know -- it's cuteish until you get that sunburn on your multiple hair partings...

the braiders on Jamaica seem to lay off the highpressure sales pitches to long-haired women, from what I've seen. At a buck or 2 per braid it's more profitable to work the short-haired ladies.

[MineralMan]

13. Nothing new here, really.

Back in the late 1970s, in California, I was walking down the street in a shopping district of San Luis Obispo, CA. Coming my way down the street was a mom with a girl who was probably 13 or 14. As we got closer to each other, I saw that this girl was wearing a very transparent blouse and no bra. WTF? I remembered thinking.

I almost said "Nice Tits!" as we passed on the street, but held my tongue. It wasn't as if this woman didn't know that her daughter's boobies were on display. I couldn't figure out how any mother could do that. I still can't.

[cbdo2007]

18. I dunno, but your story sounds kinda pervy to me.

Didn't you just say above how you didn't believe the story because you don't even give these kids a second glance....then you seem to be so fixated on this story that you had to remember your own account of this happening? hahaha

[MineralMan]

20. I remember it because it was so shocking to me.

It happened one time. Never saw anything like that before or since on a public street.

[cbdo2007]

43. Riiiiight......

he's just a writing trying to convey his point. Hence the over-detailed description he gave. He's trying to shock us and think back to that time at the mall a few weeks ago, or in your case in the 70's, when we felt the same way.

Obviously, no sane person would disagree with his point, so why are you bothering to snuff this topic out so quickly, then turn around to relate an equally pervy story of your own? If you don't like the topic, just move on and reply to something else but no need to come in to this topic and just try to cause trouble.

[MineralMan]

48. I think I'll post as I please, but thanks for the analysis.

[ecstatic]

106. good points. I agree, I don't think the author is a pervert

Could have just as easily been written by a woman. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue though, as far as what kids should be allowed to wear.

[left coaster]

29. Back in the early to mid 70s..

..halter tops and tube tops were made to be worn sans bra, as was the fashion of that time.. worn by teens and young women, including yours truly, then a teen.. many young women would wear blouses and t shirts, sans bra, and yeah, depending on the fabric/color, you could easily see their nipples.. no one seemed to make a big deal about it, as it was part of the fashion and lingering hippie attitude, I guess..

The differentiation I'm trying to make is that I never saw too many young(pre-high school age)girls dressed like that back then.. that's what I think is wrong with the modern take on what might be considered 'provocative' clothing.. The idea of 'age appropriate' seems to be lost to some parents.

[MineralMan]

41. I never saw a 13 or 14 year old wearing anything like that,

except that single time. I saw lots of college women wearing them, though. They were adults. And I didn't mind that one bit.

But for young girls to do it, some parent wasn't paying attention. Completely inappropriate, whatever the fashion of the day. Sorry.

[PCIntern]

107. I'm with you, MM...

Even as aggressive as I might have been in my day, I drew the line at underage girls walking around as though they had forgotten to finish getting dressed in the morning. There was something extraordinarily upsetting of a visceral nature, a real taboo, BUT it was like watching a horrible car accident: the moment is forever etched into a memory.

[KittyWampus]

21. A discussion could be had about whether clothing can be sexually provocative at all-

I suspect a significant number of DU'ers would say that all clothing is always just clothing and never sexually provocative.

edit- or only ever sexually provocative when the wearer of any outfit intends for it to be stimulating regardless of societal norms.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. dear adults, dont leer at little kids, even if they run around naked

thank you

signed little kid who likes to wear halters and assumes adults will behave like fucking adults

[vim876]

31. I think I love you. nt.

[PeaceNikki]

34. :*

:hi:

[MineralMan]

53. +100

Absolutely right!

[kwassa]

62. Why do little kids like to wear halters?

and leering is an adult behavior. Just not leering at little kids.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. why not? maybe they like the look? maybe its comfortable in the heat

why do adults like halters?

[TalkingDog]

72. WRONG: It's not about leering. It's about kids learning to get attention by being provocative.

People can't just switch off their eyes or their brains... That's just ridiculous.

And since noticing provocative clothing (hence the word provocative) is a reflex (hence uncontrollable) kids are going to notice that they are being noticed. Those kinds of cues (no matter how subtle) are exactly how social interactions and the response to those interactions develop.

Consciously or not kids who wear this stuff learn that wearing certain kinds of clothes gets them attention. And what child doesn't want attention?

What you are suggesting is that we don't socialize kids to fit into an adult world. That what they want and what makes them feel comfortable is all that matters. That's how you get Republicans you know.

So if you want to train (which is essentially what child rearing consists of) a bunch of people to only consider their own needs and their own comfort regardless of the mores of the larger society, why don't you just slap a copy of Ayn Rand's books into their hands as soon as they can read? Give them a leg up on the whole idea.

[jtown1123]

94. Your response stinks of victim blaming.

[cbdo2007]

100. Yet no one ever gets blamed for taking precautions ahead of time.

Only after the crime occurs do the charges of "victim blaming" start to get thrown around.

[TalkingDog]

132. Fashion Victim? Identity Fraud Victim? What are we talking here?

Because if you notice, I said nothing about sexuality. I said nothing about gender.

I was speaking in a wider context. Above the base black and white issue of who is leering, who is sexualized.

As for blaming people, I actually blame the parents for failing to understand that kids need structure. They need to understand appropriate behavior as it relates to appropriate places. As in: Don't pick your nose at the table. It's rude. (because it is digsusting)

If you grow up thinking you get to do what ever you want, when ever you want,and other people's response be damned, you aren't going to do well in the grown up world.

It has nothing to do with sexualizing children or blaming them when they become victims of that sexualization.

Get your mind out of the gutter and off the victimhood wagon.

[riderinthestorm]

139. But children aren't "provocative" (in the sexual sense which is what the OP is about)

in any way shape or form unless you are a perv.

You are ASSuming that most children would be okay with being sexually leered at ("what child doesn't want attention?")

What we want to do is "train" adults that children are children and not sexual beings (in the context of this discussion).

[TalkingDog]

148. Point out where I mention sexuality AT ALL. Now who is ASSuming?

I said provocative. You ASSumed I meant sexually when I had moved into the larger, abstracted realm of parenting and boundaries. You insisted on bringing it back to child molestation. Which says a whooooole lot about where your mind tends to hang out.

Provocative can be wearing a rebel flag shirt to an Obama rally. Or pants that show your ass to a mosque. Provocative clothing is dangerous because kids don't understand the ramifications of wearing them. They only know it gets them attention:

And what child doesn't want attention?

But the possible results? Death, physical injury and your favorite, sexual assault. It is a parents job foresee the possibility of danger and to lay down rules for what is appropriate. If a parent wants to use their kid as a proxy billboard for political, social or sexual messages, the parent is the problem, not the kid.

As for human sexuality, we are all sexual beings with sexual desires. Children masturbate in the womb. And please know, since your mind tends to "go there" that this is in no way suggesting adults should have sex with them.

Now, apologize or leave me the fuck alone. Because it's obvious you have an agenda and I don't want to play your dirty game.

[krabigirl]

144. +1

[madmom]

25. It's really hard not to dress young girls as prosti-tots when

that's about all you can find in the stores...and don't even get me started on the ruffles for older women.

Make young girls look older..make older women look like young girls.:eyes:

[Sabriel]

44. So true. Try finding jeans that aren't low and skin-tight

In my case, my daughter would rather NOT wear that type of clothing, but there's not much of an option for her in her size.

It's not like she can shop in the old fart section, like I do....

Speaking of "Juicy," there was a kindergartener at the school I was visiting a couple of years ago with the word "Cherry" across her rear. Sheesh.

[Codeine]

93. Low-rise jeans are literally all my gf can find for her six-year-old.

It's like they've forgotten how to cut jeans anymore. About ten times a day I have to tell her "buttcrack!" so so she'll hike up her pants.

[Alcibiades]

I was going to call bullshit

I thought "Hey, hasn't she checked out OshKosh? Overalls would be perfect!" So I looked for the link, clicked on girls' bottoms, and got this:

http://www.carters.com/oshkoshbgosh/girls-pants/oshkosh-kid-girl-bottoms,default,sc.html?cm_mc_uid=35201944109713032453742&cm_mc_sid_90301777=1303245374

Scads of shorts pretty much identical to the Juicy shorts. I am not looking forward to dressing my little girl as she ages out of Carter's.

[seabeyond]

124. walk in on niece sittin on floor with her baby. half her buttcrack visible.

so damn tired of it. for the first time, i walk past her and said....

buttcrack. in front of my dad and my sons. i mean, geeez, we laughed at the plumbers for it. why the hell are we all being mooned peoples buttcrack, like i want to see.

[vim876]

30. I was unaware that dressing a certain way at 13...

meant you would be unable to get a good job as an adult. Hmm. Also, this article sets off my spidey-sense because the author seems so focused on fathers controlling girls' sexuality. Creeps me out like a purity ball. Besides, who doesn't wear skimpier clothes on vacation to a warm climate? And perhaps more importantly, this article blames girls' parents individually for something that is a problem in our culture. Little girls aren't sexualized because they wear halter tops; they wear halter tops because they are taught by the culture that the sine qua non of being feminine is sexiness, that they should sexualize themselves. That's the real problem. And this guy comes a little too close to victim-blaming for me.

[IrishBuckeye]

32. Parents let their kids play with dolls that look like prostitutes (Bratz)

No surprise that girls from generation GGW (Girls Gone Wild) want to dress up at prostitutes as well.

[lapislzi]

35. How do tramps dress?

I didn't get that memo.

There are so many preconceived notions and biases in this O/P that I don't know where to begin.

[KittyWampus]

40. So in your opinion, there's no such thing as sexually provocative clothing?

[lapislzi]

56. Sigh.

Standards of what's "sexually provocative" are constantly changing, evolving, and subject to cultural norms.

In some Islamic cultures, bare arms are considered sexually provocative. In some cultures, people go around naked. Who's to say? It's in the eye of the beholder, not the wearer.

If YOU think my mode of dress is provocative, that's your problem, not mine. Maybe I'm trying to entice you. Maybe not. But assumptions are dangerous. To answer your question, I do not consider any mode of dress to be inherently provocative. Nope.

[Initech]

52. I stayed at a hotel where they had one of those beauty pageants going on.

Talk about some freaky shit. :scared:

[Heidi]

54. So females who dress or are dressed by someone else in a way PERCEIVED by others as provocative

are somehow responsible for the violence that might befall them?

[seabeyond]

55. is that what the article said? i didnt read that. but didnt read the full story. nt

[KittyWampus]

60. The article never came close to saying that. Here's a quote from the end of the article

In 2007, the American Psychological Association's Task Force on the Sexualization of Girls issued a report linking early sexualization with three of the most common mental-health problems of girls and women: eating disorders, low self-esteem and depression. There's nothing inherently wrong with parents wanting to appease their daughters by buying them the latest fashions. But is getting cool points today worth the harm dressing little girls like prostitutes could cause tomorrow?

A line needs to be drawn, but not by Abercrombie. Not by Britney Spears. And not by these little girls who don't know better and desperately need their parents to be parents and not 40-year-old BFFs.

[XemaSab]

61. Is getting checked out by adults considered violence?

:shrug:

[lapislzi]

64. I think the poster was extrapolating the anti-woman bias

inherent in the o/p. Yes, I think violence can be committed by the eyes. I have certainly been leered at in a way that made me very uncomfortable.

And I think adults "checking out" children as if they are objects for sexual delectation or speculation is creepy, and inappropriate.

[Heidi]

81. Thank you. Exactly.

I know there are many who believe looking at child porn is a "victimless crime," for example, but I believe that's just rationalization. There's a victim.

[lapislzi]

63. We have a winner!

Because Mommy dressed her little baby girl like "a tramp." Because that word means exactly the same thing to every person on the planet.

:sarcasm:

[KittyWampus]

65. Winner? Did you read the article? Apparently you don't think it's possible to

sexualize a 10 year old girl. And certainly not via clothing.

Marketers would NEVER resort to sex to sell clothing, underwear etc to young girls.

Push up bras for preteens has nothing to do with sex.

[lapislzi]

70. I didn't say that.

Of COURSE marketers use sex to sell stuff. I have a daughter, and I've spent more time in that loathsome Abercrombie store than I would ever like. Those are hours of my life that I will never get back.

But--the perception of sexuality comes from without, not within. The adults in this scenario are the ones doing the sexualizing. The kids just want to look like their friends, and marketers of course capitalize on this and fetishize their natural tendencies. That's the sick part.

[Heidi]

67. I LOATHE the term "tramp."

It's wide open to interpretation, but the consequences for the female characterized as a "tramp" are generally fixed.

[lapislzi]

77. It's usually a catch-word for any woman in control of her own sexuality

Insecure patriarchal types are very threatened by us.

[seabeyond]

80. that too is printed on little girl shirts. nt

[lapislzi]

85. So what?

Labeling it don't make it so.

That's not to say I would wear a shirt like that, or allow my daughter to wear one. I think it's in bad taste.

But I refuse to see a word on a t-shirt as an invitation to treat a person with anything less than courtesy. Period.

[seabeyond]

88. so what? exactly what you say in your post. why do you take it beyond

as if anyone said it warrants a rape. this discussion is the sexualizing our child at too young an age that has nothing to do with men raping our children.

[lapislzi]

90. I think we're having trouble defining our terms.

"Sexualizing" means different things to different people. It's adults with the sexualizing perspective, not the kids. The kids just want to look like their friends. They egg each other on, and much of it is entirely inappropriate. But it's not coming from the kids. It's coming from entities like Abercrombie, and garbage like Jersey Shore on TV that the kids are constantly exposed to.

[seabeyond]

121. agreed. stamping tramp on a childs chest means nothing to the child.

says a whole lot to the adult.

regardless, a lesson to give to the child that doesnt always behoove them to wear tramp cause the friends do. or watch shows like jersey shore cause friends do.

[jberryhill]

74. "Juicy" printed on your kid's ass is hard to attribute to "perception"

WTF?

[Heidi]

76. The person in your photo is not an eight-year-old child.

If "juicy" written across an eight-year-old's ass strikes any adult as sexy, that adult needs help beyond the expertise of DU.

[jberryhill]

86. It's marketed to pre-teens

How is "Juicy" on the ass of a ten year old supposed to strike one?

That the kid has dysentery?

This is the age group they market to:

[Heidi]

98. One's perception is one's own responsibilty.

Really. It is. Any adult who blames misguided kids, oblivious parents or well paid marketers for a sexual attraction to a children needs help beyond DU's expertise.

[KittyWampus]

89. Whether or not its perceived as sexy by any adult ignores how it sexualizes young girls-

and the effect that sexualization has on those girls' development.

[lapislzi]

126. Different discussion.

And I happen to agree with you about that. Many of the psych disorders we see in young women can be traced directly back to those hideously skewed perceptions pushed by big media.

But--we're talking about adults, and their perception of children. Kids are still kids, regardless of how they're dressed, and should be treated as such. If adults' perceptions are messed up because of "wrong" sexual cues, that isn't the kids' fault.

Do I wish it was different? Sure I do. I wish corporations would behave responsibly (i.e., not attempt to fetishize and sexualize prepubescent children in order to sell overpriced, sweatshop-made crap), but that's right behind monkeys flying out of my ass. And parents buying a clue is right behind that.

[seabeyond]

129. but this is the problem, ... the adult world feeds into the kids world and with the net

the line is so very blurred. not an environment of adult world only.... kids are a part of it too. and it is all feeding each other...

the clear line is no longer there (for so many).

[lapislzi]

135. you are right.

It's what makes a parent's job so damn hard, and how we fail so often, and so hard. We ain't none of us perfect, me least of all.

[uppityperson]

83. Very much so. We all need to wear burqas to not tempt anyone.

:sarcasm:

[darkstar3]

58. This is simply a logical progression of the madonna/whore dichotomy.

[lapislzi]

95. Yes, in the big picture, it is.

It's not about the kids. It's about adults, and adults who use sex as a way to market to children. And about kids not being allowed to be kids, and their body images getting messed up by adults who just want to make a buck any old way they can.

[latebloomer]

91. I concur that the writer got way too turned on by a child.

"Bo Derek" hair? That's a standard thing that island people will do for you on the beach. Lip gloss? Earrings? Midriff? Oh, the humanity!

The fact that he saw this child as the sexiest girl in the terminal says way more about him than about the girl and her parents.

[davsand]

97. Most little girls don't know why that clothing generates a response.

My 13 year old might know now why the word "juicy" on her butt would generate a response, but at an earlier age, I doubt it. Similarly, "cherry" is another term whose meaning probably skates right by a lot of the younger set. Personally, I never wanted my kid in that stuff, but I don't wear it either...

Same thing goes for thong underwear in a size 6x, under wire push up training bras, and cut out/ peekaboo/ backless clothing. She never understood why anyone thought it was cool, or why anybody would form opinions about her based on those clothes. I always kind of figured that as her mom it was my job to protect her from some of that when she didn't know enough to protect herself.

Sexualizing little girls just creeps me the hell out, and I never wanted to put that on my kid for that very reason.

YMMV.



Laura

[BeHereNow]

99. 99% of American Parents are fucking MORONS.

And like the people get the government they deserve,
so do these parents attract the rapists and pedophiles
they enable and encourage their children to attract.
In the end- it all comes down to the "American Idol" pop star culture
that grips these idiots in a collective mass delusion.

BHN

[ladywnch]

101. my step daughter's mother is constantly dressing her like a tramp

when my step daughter had a middle school Christmas band concert her mother made her an elf constume/dress that was SO short it barely covered her crotch when she sat.....and since she is a flute player she is in the front row. It was so short that one of her uncles was 1) embarrassed and 2) spent most of the concert looking up and down rows to see if anyone was trying to look up her 'dress'. The girl, (now 14) looks like a street walker half the time.....padded bras, low cut tops, shorts that are pretty much swim trunks, stripper high heels (on a girl who already has orthopedic issues)....it's just wrong. The mother lost her virginity in high school and seems hell bent to make sure her daughter does too.

[riderinthestorm]

103. She's still dressed for the beach. Anyone sexualizing 8 yr olds at the beach?

The author looking at this girl (who is still thinking she's on "vacation") is projecting improper conduct/thoughts on a little girl. If this kid were still on the beach, nobody would think twice about her clothes or hair (unless they were pervs).

My 8 year old daughter came with us for my father-in-laws funeral. We were in Florida at the time competing the horses, but my daughter and I were specifically at Disneyworld when the call came taking a couple of days to see the sights. We flew straight from Orlando to Rochester NY. We only had beach wear but my daughter had just purchased a Mickey Mouse tee shirt, bright yellow. She desperately wanted to wear it and we decided that Ray would have laughed out loud at the scene, so we let her wear it.

Did some people frown at her inappropriate gear? Did people judge us? Was my husband too lax to let his daughter wear this to his dad's funeral?

The girl in the OP was wearing perfectly appropriate gear. It may not have been what I would wear to the airport but who the fuck cares. This is a kid! If we saw a boy in a Superman costume at the airport, we'd laugh.

The thing is these are kids. The parents would have sexualized the girl by telling her she looked "sexualized" when in reality this was still a kid in her beach vacation gear.

The author of the piece in the OP is the only one who should be ashamed.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

105. well said. nt

[riderinthestorm]

109. Kids wear goofy stuff. I'm perfectly ok with that. It's adults who know better than to sexualize it

if you ask me especially if the outfit is basically harmless. Some fights aren't worth it, and some of us choose not to fight it at all (like my story about my daughter at my FIL's funeral).

The girl in the OP was still dressed for her summer beach vacation. She wasn't in her bikini. She was fully covered except for her midriff?? Who cares about that (unless you are sexualizing her as an adult).

[lapislzi]

140. You forgot the SHOULD in your subject line

Sadly, adults, in the form of the marketing vultures at Abercrombie, et al, absolutely see the dollar value in sexualizing children. It's disgusting, but it happens.

[riderinthestorm]

142. I understand what you're saying but I didn't mean it like that.

I meant that any adult that sees an 8 year old and thinks she's sexy, is sexualizing her. An 8 year old girl still wearing her beach stuff isn't thinking she's portraying herself that way in the normal world (ie. she hasn't been molested or prostituted or modeled or....).

I have a 23 yr old and a 14 yr old who love A&F so we've had this convo often since this old feminist has a lot of ideas about women, clothing and the latest styles as they relate to our self esteem.... At 8 yrs old, most girls simply want to wear what the older girls are wearing, to fit in. They aren't thinking "does this make me look sexy", they simply want to look fashionable since that's about then the whole clothing thing starts for girls.

Any adult who thinks an 8 or 10 year old is sexy regardless, is a perv. Stores like A&F market to young tweeners because they know how desperate this age group is to "fit in", and to most successfully do that many young girls ape the older girls (where the A&F stuff really is about sexiness). But this mom firmly believes young girls 8 - 10 yrs old aren't trying to sexualize themselves or be seen as sexy... yet. And adults shouldn't be "going there" in their minds about these young girls either.

[KittyWampus]

114. Push-up bra bikinis isn't sexualizing 8 year old girls?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

125. yes it is but sexualizing is diff from finding a 8 year old sexy

or tramp like

[Withywindle]

111. Yeah, I agree with this.

The author sounds like a real creep to me. Aside from the "Juicy" on the sweatpants, which I think is icky, but still, I know it's a popular brand--what exactly is wrong with what the kid was wearing? Halter tops are totally normal hot-weather wear for all ages, as far as I'm concerned. What's wrong with the braided hairstyle or a little lipgloss? It doesn't ping "slutty" to me at all; it wouldn't on a girl of any age.

The author thinking she was "the sexiest girl in the airport," now THAT is totally eeewwww, and it's the author's issue, not the kid's or her family's. Blech.

So now little girls have to completely cover up at all times even in hot weather, even coming back from a vacation at the beach, and are never allowed to try to look a little bit pretty? That's depressing as hell. I wore lipgloss and earrings when I was 10, as did most of my classmates. It wasn't "slutty," it was us having fun with our looks and playing with "paint" and knicknacks, as kids are wont to do. Nobody thought there was anything wrong with it, except the Holiness church girls who weren't allowed to wear pants or cut their hair either, and believe me, no one envied them!

[KittyWampus]

113. Yes, you can sexualize an 8 year old on the beach. Abercrombie/Fitch sells push up bra bikinies

to 8 year olds.

[riderinthestorm]

137. No! An 8 year old at the beach in a bikini isn't sexy, at all. Period.

Unless you are the perv.

I don't care if the bikini is a push-up type, bra top style. You are taking this into the discussion La Lioness Priyanka was trying to make - no child is sexy to a mature adult who isn't a pedophile, regardless of their clothing.

Another example, my kids LOVE the beach. They love to get into the sand, make castles, run into the waves... you name it. Oftentimes, their bathing suit would ride up or down their butt but as kids, they aren't cognizant of their butt crack showing, or if their cheek is exposed because the suit rode up because the average 8 year old is engrossed in their world and while their suit now demonstrates that they are "sexualized" per our culture's standards, they are in no way shape or form, sexualized regardless of how much their suit rides up. They are CHILDREN. As parents, we can, do and often will go over and yank the suit into place but frankly, why bother. Who's really caring? How many of us have seen a girl playing in the waves and her halter bathing suit top has become askew in the surf? Are you really looking at her flat-chested-exactly-like-a-boy top? Not me. I simply see a joyful girl who probably needs a better fitting suit.

The only one who will care is a perv.

FWIW, my kids have had their hair done up in the corn row braids because every beach on the face of the planet has someone selling that service - Bo Derek wasn't the first person to ever get that done. She may have looked sexy with her hair like that, but honestly, my 9 year old girl just looked like a girl who had been to the beach, and who had the patience to sit and get her hair done like that.

[Bluebear]

108. Tell us how tramps dress so everybody can make sure to avoid that.

:silly:

[slackmaster]

116. I met two teenage Saudi girls on Saturday. They were dressed in traditional attire, veils and all.

I've been told that to someone accustomed to traditional conservative Muslim attire, the way most American women looks tramp-like.

The two girls I met were sisters, here to study at an English language school. They were accompanied by their brother Abdul. Abdul was wearing the same kind of clothing I was - Cargo shorts, T-shirt, and sunglasses. The paternalistic double standard in that culture runs deep.

[Alcibiades]

110. These are $48 shorts!

http://www.juicycouture.com/girls/shop-girls-apparel-7-14/jyru5891/original-basic-terry-short-7-14

From what I have seen, probably Juicy Couture's biggest seller. Impossible to tell if they still make girl's shorts with the "juicy" trademark on the rear from their website, though: they may have caught too much flak over this for girls' clothing. And it's that word, honestly, that sets people over the edge. It's meant to be provocative, and was, when they first started making clothes. Their first product? Maternity pants. I shit you not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicy_Couture

Anyway, most of their other clothes seem perfectly appropriate and cute, but the logo shorts cross a line. If it's cut in such a way that it would be inappropriate for an 8 year old girl to model it, it's not appropriate to sell, either.

My wife and I have discussed this: she's adamant that our little girl will never dress like in an age-inappropriate manner. She's two, so it's not a problem finding appropriate and cute girl clothes for her at this age. She wears a lot of skorts. Even though I'm a stay at home dad, my wife buys most of her clothes, because she enjoys it. Then I dress her daily, unless my wife remembers to pick out her clothes for her the night before. She does this because she claims I am not good at picking out clothes that match. Which is probably true.

Anyway, it's balderdash that there are no appropriate clothes for little girls: even on the Juicy Couture website, the offending brand, after all, there's plenty that's not inappropriate.

Which brings up another point: who is it who is dressing little girls like this? Moms. Dads don't buy their daughters $48 shorts, and, if we did, they wouldn't have "juicy" on the rear. That's a tragedy worthy of discussion. Reminds me of female genital mutilation.

Teenage girls are another matter entirely. I remember my sister bringing a change of clothes, usually revealing, to slip into before she would go out. The only domestic task she ever took a liking to was sewing, so she could alter her clothes to make them tighter. I thought she looked like a chicken wearing jeans, but I was her little brother.

So, in summation on the subject of inappropriate clothes for girls: for little girls, it's usually the mom. For teens, usually the teen herself. For both, aided and abetted by places like Nordstroms, who like selling lots of shorts made from $.50 worth of fabric at $48 a piece. We seriously need to get to a point where it's not acceptable to profit by exposing our children to clothes that expose them to every pervert who comes down the pike.

[pinto]

115. Some may be missing the point of the entire article. Author objects to the sexualization of it all.

Speaks as a dad who disallows his son to wear clothing he feels is inappropriate. The opening is intended to grab a reader's attention, imo, which it has done. Yet, the *entire* article is really a good piece on the issue. :hi:

[cbdo2007]

119. Thanks for responding pinto....

I honestly had no idea this post would garner some of these crazy types of responses that I've seen.

Seems like everyone is ignoring the actual article and it's content to focus on a word or two here or there that they don't agree with, even if it has nothing to do with the point of the article which they probably actually agree with if they could discuss it civilly. :)

[Teaser]

131. "everyone is ignoring the actual article...focus on a word or two here"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Underground

[seabeyond]

133. i agree. i tried to raise the point, there is the same issue with boys. tshirts reinforcing boys

are stupid. cant find one that is not in some way saying boys are lazy, violent, stupid or smartass. no different

[Odin2005]

117. Parents that let their kids dress in that hypersexualized crap should be charged with neglect.

[ohheckyeah]

118. Maybe we need 4 or 5 more threads

about this stuff.

[TNLib]

120. The author sounds like a pedophile and a perv

There is nothing wrong with a little girl wearing a halter top, lip gloss and a bo derek retro hair do. As for the shorts Juicy is a name brand.

[zorahopkins]

123. I Trust Parents -- And I Trust Girls

I think parents are the best people to determine what their own daughters will wear.

Of course, after a certain age, girls should be the ones who determine what they wear.

I may not like the way some parents dress their children, but it is NOT up to me to criticize how other people choose to dress their own children.

[Teaser]

141. why do you trust them?

has humanity in the aggregate ever shown itself worthy of trust?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

127. Parents, don't raise your boys to be pigs

[Darth_Kitten]

138. Parents shouldn't cater to their sons....

I see that so often...

boys will be boys isn't cute when they are in their 20's and beyond.

[seabeyond]

130. driving on busy road, people turning, stopping, pulling out. an highschool girl walking down the

street tonight. the outfit was so very short, barely covered the butt, but i cant see great and asked son, is that a skirt. hoping it was really short shorts. but as i ask, and get closer see the frilling around bottom popping up with each step. son says skirt. not a moment later a car starts backing out of a driveway and partially in lane. i cant stop, pull into next lane or swerve out of way and say

get your butt back in there.

without missing a beat i tell son

i am not talking about the girl, talking about the car

then it dawns on both of us what i said and we laughed...

the thing, we laugh at the guys wearing their pants below their belt and walking really odd, with a belt tightened to try to help keep them up. it is about the same with the girls.

i thought it especially funny this evening with the threads we have had today