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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 02:34 PM
Original message
Girls


The day after my first daughter was born, my supervisor at work asked me, “Well, what do you think?” She had known me since, as a single father, I had juggled work and raising two young sons. Life for both the boys and I had changed in the past year. The birth of a daughter, I told her, meant that I had to re-evaluate all of my previously-held assumptions and beliefs about the female gender.

Fast-forward seventeen years. I now have two teenaged daughters, plus a foreign exchange student living with us. Last night,upon our return from a track meet, our F.E.S.'s prom dress had arrived special delivery. Within seconds, or so it seemed, my wife and the three girls were busy with fittings, hair styles, and evaluating various shades of make-up. Thus, not only was my ability to concentrate on the evening news compromised – willingly – as I made suggestions which were ignored. Being “color-blind,” among other things, results in no self-respecting resident of our home takes my opinions of fashion seriously.

More, it got me thinking about how quickly my daughters have gotten older, and the world that they are growing up in. The pace of change often amazes me; for example, the shy, sometimes homesick student from France who moved in with us in December now asks me if, should she decide she would prefer to live in the USA, she could consider our house her home? And, just as happened with my sons, I see my daughters rapidly transitioning from my “little girls” into quasi-independent youths. Adulthood is really not that far into some distant future.

I was not totally unfamiliar with the raising of girls: I grew up with two sisters; and both of my brothers have daughters, and over the years, they had spent considerable time here. Yet, every person is unique. I remember when my normal brother visited from the west coast eight years ago; he noted that my younger daughter was the first five year old he ever met who had mastered the art of sarcasm. It's a skill that she continues to hone.

My wife and I have always put emphasis on the value of a good education, and both daughters have been consistent “A+” students. The school offered us the option of having our older daughter “skip” grades. We decided against it, in part because of the experiences of one of my brother's daughters who did this. (I skipped school a lot, though in a very different context.) My niece has done well for herself, including teaching at Syracuse University for part of the time she lived with or near us, but she told me that in terms of her relationships with members of her high school peer group, she wishes she had remained in her original class.

Peer groups, as all parents know, are a funny thing. Peer group dynamics frequently reach into the home environment. Our home, for example, appears to be one of two “homes-away-from-home” for numerous friends of our daughters. That can make for some interesting situations. Last summer our youngest daughter had a dozen friends here for a sleep-over birthday party. As if thirteen 13 year old girls wasn't enough, one of my sons brought to my attention that a group of neighborhood boys were hanging around the edge of our property. I was unaware of that many boys inhabiting this very rural area.

He noted that a couple of these boys were pushing the girls, and asked if I wanted him to “get rid of them?” I said no, that better yet, we would conduct an experiment. Social interactions outside of school at that age frequently begin with horseplay, such as the pushing he saw. Perhaps he had forgotten being that age, so I assured him that if he and I simple went out and sat on our porch, two things would happen. First, as soon as the kids noticed us, the boys would increase the physical space between them and the girls; second, they would fidget and grow uncomfortable. Sure enough, within four minutes of our being seated on the porch, the kids were divided into two distinct groups – one male and one female – and one kid said, loud enough for us to hear, “Uh, this is uncomfortable.”

Both of our daughters tell my wife and I that we are their friends' “favorite” parents. More than a few call us “Mom and Dad.” Both daughters tell me that their friends, and their friends' parents, all like me because I am very supportive of them in school activities, including sports. Just as I did with my boys and their pals, I attend as many sporting events as possible. I can honestly say that there is not a single youngster on any of these teams that I have not made the effort to praise for something positive that they have done in soccer, basketball, track, etc. And I make a point of complimenting them when talking to their parents.

Most of the school's athletic coaches recognize that this is helpful to their teams, and I enjoy the opportunity to assist them in, both in “practice” and sometimes as a fill-in when a coach can't attend practice or a game. My younger daughter has, at times, been uncomfortable having me fill in as the coach. I find that curious, because she will often look to me when I am a mere spectator, for one of the “hand signals” that we've come up with. Like many girls their ages, both daughters would prefer that their mother not yell so loud from the bleachers. Because my wife has a tendency to be loud, our younger daughter prefers that she not attend the games in the current AAU basketball season.

With all three girls currently out for track; the older two playing with the younger one's AAU team during practice, to improve their level of play; and all three currently having me teach them (and a couple of friends) to box, it is a busy time. One afternoon/evening last week, for example, they had track practice after school, followed by basketball, then a trip to an area gym to train with two retired professional fighters that I've known for thirty years.

This weekend, my youngest daughter and I had to leave the house at 5 am both days, for an “all day” AAU basketball tournament in a distant city. As there were 60 teams there, games started at 8 am. The final games on Saturday began at 10 pm. By Sunday afternoon, I realized that I was witnessing yet another “peer experiment,” as the teams of 13-year old girls were tired, sore, and in what might be called a less than delightful mood. What made things far more uncomfortable, however, was the acting out of several rather toxic parents with large senses of entitlement.

My daughter and I had been accompanied by a senior in high school, who was assisting with coaching. At one point, outside of my view, a father of one of the girls on the opposing team lost control of himself, and began curing at a high school girl. When she pointed that out to him, he invaded her personal space, and began wagging his finger in her face. This was brought to my attention, and as I approached this fellow, he hurried away.

Girls JV basketball has surpassed football as the high school sport that results in the most injuries each year in America. No sane person wants to see any student – male or female – hurt in any school sporting event. As a parent, I hope that the referees keep control of sporting contests in such a way as to reduce the possibility of injury. Yet, at the same time, I recognize that girls basketball is a physical sport. The ideal of good sportsmanship is too often damaged by obnoxious parents. This season alone, I've seen parents kicked out of basketball games, including one mother in handcuffs. She refused to leave, until police escorted her out. Last year, at a wrestling tournament held in a community our school competes with, it required state police, sheriff's deputies, and local police to break-up a brawl in the school's parking lot. Students, parents, and even one coach were arrested.

I had no intentions of getting into a fight with the jackass that was harassing the young lady on Sunday. I did want to point out that not only was his behavior unacceptable – what a foolish example to set for his daughter – but that this very high school senior is an outstanding role model for younger kids. She is my younger daughter's “hero,” so to speak, and I think highly of her. I've been helping her with preparing for college, in applying for various scholarships (I also write a heck of a letter of recommendation), and career-planning. She calls my wife and I “the parents that every kid should have.”

I suppose not every parent is up to the task of helping their children navigate life. Being a parent has always held challenges,and no parent id perfect. We are, after all, human beings, and parenting can be difficult at times. But I do think that this is an especially difficult time to be young. It's a tougher time, in many ways, to be a young person than when I grew up. That holds true for boys and girls.

I was happy last night, when the girls and my wife were having fun with the prom dress. I didn't attend those types of events, and really know very little about them. I was way too busy boxing at that age. So I got a kick out of it when I found that, among various other things, the girls had a couple of my Title/Everlast catalogs out on the table last night. Besides doing their homework, they had made a list of boxing equipment that they want, including a few of the t-shirts. Now, that may be the only area where even I have some fashion sense!
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sweet!
You are a lucky man. :kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. That, I am.
Thanks.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. You sound like a great Dad.
Seriously.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Thanks.
I try my best.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. What a wonderful read.
And I say that as the mother of a 10yo girl. Love ya Mr. Waterman.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. When I bring
my daughter to AAU practice, there are two 10yo -- a boy and a girl -- and an 8yo boy, who watch their sisters. Two mothers, also.

I hold an "archaeology class" for the kids twice a week, which include not only some of my artifacts, but kids books on the topic. Gave them each a 3000+ yo projectile point, with proper documentation. Around 10 is a great time for getting kids interested in learning that stuff.

The two mothers and I talk sports, although we've also had a giggle about the frustrations of house work when family members neglect to assist. Both Moms work outside the house, too. One's a single parent. I tell them that I'm thinking of hanging up my apron, and getting a job.
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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. You are a fine father I must say
Speaking of great examples - you are one yourself. :applause:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Oh, thank you!
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sweet read and even cuter picture!
But I have to point some things out as the resident "older sister" (ahem)....

On another thread you objected to girls wrestling with boys in competition because they may get hurt. Yet your girls, and others, are sparring with you (and I presume with other boys/men).... This was in relation to the thread about the boy who quit rather than wrestle a girl at the IA state championship. It seems counter intuitive that you'd want to "protect" girls from a potential wrestling injury when they are in same-weight classes, yet you teach your own daughters and other girls to box which has some serious analogies to wrestling.

May I also point out that you let your daughters participate in JV basketball which by your own admission is dangerous:
"JV basketball has surpassed football as the high school sport that results in the most injuries each year in America. No sane person wants to see any student – male or female – hurt in any school sporting event. As a parent, I hope that the referees keep control of sporting contests in such a way as to reduce the possibility of injury. Yet, at the same time, I recognize that girls basketball is a physical sport."

So what gives? How do you rationalize your opposition to girls wrestling with boys in competition, with your lovely female empowering post?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Life's complicated. I've not met many people who were completely
consistent. Personally, I support the coed wrestling thing, and have no problem with it. Others feel differently. I don't actually see a conflict here. To expect consistency with everything is to expect too much, I think. Basketball and wrestling are two different sports with two different sets of conditions. This poster's attitude seems not to have any conflicts to me. Sorry you found one.

That's why we usually don't reference other posts when discussing a particular thread. The two situations are not equivalent. This post is about what it's about. The wrestling thing was something else. The comparison is misplaced, in my opinion.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Perhaps. I took from H2O Man's post that he was about empowering his girls
and women in general. And some of that was about letting them do dangerous things.

I don't think it's such a stretch to find it incongruous to point out the discrepancy. You, or H2O Man can alert on me if you think I'm being too far out there in trying to figure out what he's thinking by posting this (highly personal) post about his feelings on girls/women/sports/life/competition etc.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I like your questiion.
I expected it .... and you no doubt knew I was waiting for it.

I need more time than I have right now to answer it seriously. And it deserves a serious answer.

But it's "taxi time" .... a lot of girls from track depend on me for that. Then, AAU b-ball practice! And possibly some boxing after that! Yikes!

I will definitely discuss this with you, my Wonderful Sister.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's funny, as soon as I read your post, I knew you understood I'd find it.
I've got to go do pm chores. I'll check back in later as well.

:hi:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Well, he was talking about girls' JV basketball, not coed
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 03:37 PM by MineralMan
basketball. So, the two discussions aren't really equivalent, I think. Coed contact sports are difficult for some people to handle. Wrestling, especially. Personally, I have no problem with it, as long as the girl actively wants to participate. For others, though, I can see where there might be an issue with it.

It's not really the dangerous aspects that are troublesome for some. It's the intimate contact the sport naturally causes. That's why I don't see the equivalence between the two discussions or the conflict with his attitudes.

To me, it sounds like he's an excellent parent. Everyone has a different philosophy about things. The goal, though, of parenting is to help children reach an integrated adult personality without any major issues. In that, the poster seems to be succeeding admirably.

To add: I forgot about the boxing thing. Yes, there's an element of danger there, but this poster is an experienced boxer, so I'd think that would be minimal.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Okay, here goes:
In boxing -- both amateur and professional -- females compete against females, and males against males. I've trained boxers, mainly males, but with some females, for over four decades. I've never had boys spar girls, or men spar women, much less compete in bouts in that context.

However, in the gym we visited, the two friends are training a talented teenaged female, who has sparred guys while preparing for bouts against other females. That is a choice they make, but it is entirely out of necessity. If I can bring a few girls for her to spar, they won't have her sparring boys. While it is somewhat beneficial for this young lady to spar guys (her record is 14-4), it does not help the guys. The fact is that women are not able to compete with guys their size in the boxing matches. Thus, these guys have to go very light in this sparring, which risks their picking up bad habits.

I do not really spar these days. But, for an example of what I just mentioned, when I met my then future wife, she told me that she knew how to box. Her father bought gloves and she and her two brothers used to spar. For whatever reason, she challenged me to spar -- now remember, this was before she knew me well enough to want to smack me. I showed her that I could allow her to punch me as often and as hard as she could, without any effect. Now, she was a top high school athlete in our state, and competed in sports in college. Strong and very athletic. But incapable of doing anything beyond making me grin when she landed her hardest punches.

To put this into another perspective, even when I had been long retired, and was at a gym watching what today is known as a "cruiserweight" (used to be a heavyweight, until the division split at 200 lbs), I could still spar quite well. I had made a couple suggestions to this young lion, and he took them the wrong way. Challenged me to spar. I was okay with him going as hard as he could, and because he had been rude, I showed him that he couldn't hit me. In three rounds, a well-trained young man only landed a glove on me once, while I "tapped" him repeatedly after he missed.

So, I have allowed the girls to "spar" me, though only they throw punches. I'm teaching them defensive moves. My simply telling them, for example, how to avoid a punch by rolling their shoulders isn't as effective as demonstrating it.

I have no idea if they will fight competitively. That is their choice, not mine. However, if they decide to, it's my job to prepare them better than they have been prepared to compete in any other sport. But if they decide not to fight, I'll be happy, because boxing is a sport that involves pain and injury. I'm living proof of that.

In training them, my primary goals are to have them have fun; develope self-discipline (for the only legit purpose of parental discipline is to instill self-discipline); to get/stay in shape; and to gain self-confidence.

A surprising number of the mothers of my daughters' friends have expressed interest in participating. There is the sense of empowerment, that you have mentioned in this thread. I'm all for that. I believe it involves increasing people's awareness, including the ability to properly read situations. It also involves gaining the self-confidence and ability to defend one's self. (I'm able to teach techniques not allowed in boxing to disable an attacker.)

Empowering people, male and female, is a good thing.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. You still seem to be dodging your point about girls getting hurt in sports
For wrestling, you took issue that the girl may be hurt and thus she shouldn't be competing against boys. In this thread, you actually embrace that the girl may be hurt doing a sport but now it's that it doesn't "help the guys", and/or that they may be going easy on her when it's a contact sport. I believe that most guys when faced with a serious contender who is about to humiliate them in the ring, will (and do) decide to "take her to the mat" as it were and make it a real match. In the IA state wrestling thread, we saw both examples: one boy who decided that he wouldn't wrestle the girl athlete which he claimed was about religious reasons, and another boy who did decide to wrestle her and beat her. She faced the threat of getting hurt but she also got all the good values we want for our daughters: self discipline, self confidence, to stay in shape etc.

In the context of wrestling, it's not about gender, it's about weight (which it is in boxing obviously) since there aren't enough girl wrestlers to make their own league. Clearly in boxing there are now enough girls to box each other in competition, if not sparring, so that's more a moot point but it's still not that way in wrestling. The girl in question on the wrestling threads was clearly able to "outman" (heh) her opponent since she got there with some kind of phenomenal record of wins if I can recall. She earned her place, by matching the boys, evenly. I'm fairly sure that none of her opponents once they were on the mat, wanted to "lose to a girl" so they fought hard unless you are implying that every guy "goes light" in competition with women. I don't buy that. In my sport, women were prevented from competing for decades. Once we got that chance, we now dominate. We are very fierce and it's a sport where men and women compete equally against each other. No, it's not a contact sport but nonetheless, the men know and understand that "going light" against us, means they lose. They've long ago given up that outmoded chivalry.

I believe that holds true across every sport. No man wants to be upstaged by a woman athlete and if they are placed in direct competition with each other, that guy will dig in and fight.

The girl wrestler in IA proved that. I still believe she deserved that chance.

I love your OP about empowering women but you need to go that extra step, that last step imho.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I do remember
several people taking their positions based on the issue of the potential for girls getting hurt in the wrestling. I may even have commented on it. I think that others attributed that concern to me, too. But it was not my primary reason, in any case.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for the clarification. I'm off for the night. 6 am comes too damn soon for this old one.
Peace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. I got to bed
a bit after 4 am. The damp, rainy weather makes these old bones ache. Two track meets, b-ball, and boxing in the next 48 hours. Yikes!
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wish you'd been my dad
Oh, I'm sure you're not perfect in every way, but it does sounds like you know and love your daughters as individuals, and have established strong open relationships with both of them. You sound like a most wise and loving man. Your daughters are SO lucky!



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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. There is one area
in which I recognize that I am rigid. If I'm scheduled to pick one of them up at, say, 6 pm in front of the school, I expect them to be on time. They know I'll be on time, and I expect the same from them -- unless there is a good reason for being late.

I'm also not the most relaxed teacher of driving skills. Hence, our daughters prefer their brothers take that role. The "boys" had rented their late grandparents' farm a while back, which has a few miles of private roads. It doesn't hurt for kids to learn to drive in that context, even before they can get a permit.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks! Enjoyed the story and the love and perspective with which it was written. My two girls
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 03:45 PM by wiggs
graduate from college this spring (twins)...a time of transition, appreciation, decisions, excitement, surprise, worry, and wonder. Just like all the other times!

(my girls' sport was softball...so much fun. They also did some kickboxing for a year and dad still does BJJ)

Both of us...lucky, yes?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Very good!
Seeing one's children grow into adulthood, capable of taking care of themselves, is a rewarding experience.

I suspect that you and I are lucky, though it takes some talent and a doggone lot of hard work, too!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. Thanks!
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. What an absolutely beautiful post
Rec
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
37. Thank you very
much, my Absolutely Beautiful Friend!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. kr. nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. Thanks!
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks for this
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. Thank you!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. K & R
Always love your writing.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. Thanks!
Much appreciated.

Like a few things I post here from time to time, this is an edited version of something I wrote in one of my own journals. I kind of liked it. And I'm mighty happy that others here do.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. Between the lines...
...Your story reveals the key to buuilding a better future: Infinite love and unrestrained support for, and interest in, the lives and well-being of children whose lives you touch. They grow up to do the same -- and more.

Thank you for sharing this lesson with us. Also -- as my wife's mother would say -- thank you for being you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
41. I've always taught
my children -- and many others -- a simple "rule": Think for yourself; act for others. Chief Paul Waterman taught me that. It works well for building the proper foundation for becoming truly human.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
29. girls are special.
but then so are boys. your children are lucky to have you as a dad.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. Exactly right!
Human beings are born perfect. Female and male. With the proper supports, they remain that way -- even though some kids (like myself) go through some mighty rough periods.

At the AAU basketball practices, there's one little boy who comes to watch who reminds me so much of my oldest son. He is in a state of constant motion, asking one million questions per second. When his Mom or Dad appear to get slightly tired, I remind them of how quickly this phase passes. And I tell them that I'd rent their son by the hour! I've loaned him two "children & youth" books on archaeology, and he is fascinated with it. As soon as I get an opportunity, I'll take him out in the field.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. LOL. If I wrote an essay "Boys" it would read like a survival manual for single
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 10:27 AM by Zorra
parents.

Our house was home for 3/4 of a rock band with all the ramifications of that. Nothing "Leave It To Beaver" about it. If I said the word "prom" to them when they were teens they would have thought that I was mispronouncing a word for a type of large shrimp.

But to my continual amazement, they are doing really well now, and we are very close in heart and spirit but not in location.

Most importantly to me (and to them, I'm sure), they are true puppy-savers, happy altruistic human beings - open-minded, tolerant, and have beautiful hearts of gold. They have thanked me repeatedly for helping to instill these values in them; I didn't bother to tell them that it was mostly all luck. It had to be.

So I guess not sending the little hellions to military school turned out to be a good decision after all.
;-)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. There was a stage
when my sons searched for ways to test the limits. Your comment about rock bands reminds me of a couple. Once, the older boy went to a friend's house to practice with their band. He was in junior high school then, and the friend's mother was a school teacher. When I went to pick him up, I noted a certain smell. My son told me that the mother had brought out some pot. A truly stupid choice on her part.

A few years later, the same son thought he would surprise me, by playing a David Peel & the Lower East Side Gang CD. I surprised him: I've known David for years, and long ago played on stage with him.

The younger son often displayed a contempt for authority in school, which resulted in my being invited to several conferences. There were a few times when he was wrongly accused of something, and I'd stick up for him. But there were more times when he was in the wrong, and I supported the school. I got tired of it, so I pointed out that he only got in trouble with teachers who resembled his mother, either physically or in behavior. His biological mother was absent much of his early years, and he had some hostilities that he was taking out on people who in no way deserved it.

It took him about two days before he told me that he had given that some thought, and realized that I was right. His behavior changed.

Then there was the time when, impressed by a Denzel Washington movie, he began calling me "Dog" in front of his friends. I pulled him aside, and politely requested that he never call me "Dog" again. He readily agreed. Moments later, in front of his friends, he called over to me, "Uh, yo, Pup...."

He still gives me a hard time now and then, even though he is an adult. It is, I know, his form of affection. For example, a while back, he asked me if when I died he could have certain artifacts from my collection? I said sure. So he said, "Well, could you hurry up and die? 'Cause they'd look great in my apartment."
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. My dad made me play
golf...had my own clubs at age 5. I wanted to kill myself by age 12. As Mark Twain said: "Golf is a good walk, ruined."

My dad was absolutely oblivious to others. I'm glad you help children other than your own.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. I never really
cared for golf. I grew up playing a lot of croquet, quite well, and was actually pretty good at golf. My normal brother and one brother-in-law are golf addicts. Before my auto wreck, I'd play them about once a year, and thrash them. It really annoyed them, and that gave me far more satisfaction that the actual game of golf.

It's not that I have anything against golf. But I wouldn't want my daughters to marry guys that play it. And I'm not sure how Iwould react if a golfer moved into my neighborhood.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
32. Honestly, I can't even read this...
as my daughter is graduating from high school this year, going to the prom next weekend....so many huge changes, and it's just been her and I for so very long.

I've been crying pretty much nonstop since January 1st, when I had to dive into the realities (via financial aid applications...lol) of this huge life change we're both facing.

I have no doubt, however, that this sharing is worthy of a recommendation. Anything you share is.

The picture alone is worth a recommendation.

:hug:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. Even good
life transitions involve some stress and strange feelings. The young lady who rode to the b-ball tournament with my daughter and I told me that her Mom is crying frequently, as she will be heading tocollege this fall. She was concerned that her Mom was too emotional.

I told her that I think a range of human emotions is normal. Her Mom is a nice lady. And I asked her to remember this conversation in future years, when she is the mother of a student preparing to go on to college.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
35. Yep. Girls.
:hug:
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. And beautiful girls they are.
I raised one boy and one girl for a nearly a decade on my own, and it is a battle to be a good parent and provider. However, at this time in my life, I look back at all the time I literally felt like screaming in frustration because there were so few hours in the day and time was slipping away and realize that I was successful. I have two wonderfully successful adults out there in the world. My daughter is raising her crew and doing a wonderful job of it. Smart and sassy achievers who I'm certain will dodge the worst of what the world has to throw at them because they are lovingly taught to value others.

Job well done.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. You sound like quite a dad
I too have had some experience at raising a daughter and yes, they basically ignore us men when it comes to fashion "sense" and that is wise because most of us have little anyway. But she came to me often for advice concerning boys and amazingly enough, school work, among other things.
Question for you, have you ever maybe mentioned to your daughters that um, well, maybe they wear a bit more clothing? See, my daughter used to wear short shorts and halter tops and things like that when she was younger, in HS and early on in college. Maybe I was just some sort of paranoid dad, like my then S.O. suggested. Or maybe not.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. I used to work with some researchers who did a national study on kids who succeed.
Not kids who fail, there are already too many researchers opining and testing hypotheses about various demonic bullets and who to blame for what. But what are characteristics of kids who stay in school, who get decent grades, who avoid drug addiction, pregnancy, etc. Here's some things that were learned over several years and a sample that ultimately included hundreds of thousands of middle-school and high-school age kids:

First: Socioeconomic determinants have an effect, but not as powerful an effect as you might think. That is, kids who are poor, who come from discriminated-against minorities, who move around, etc., may do just as well as kids who have economically and socially stable dominant-culture families. Demographics are important, but they are not destiny.

Second: Parents have way more influence than they think they have. It may LOOK like they are ignoring you when you give them "The Talk" about alcohol use, or smoking, or getting good grades, or being considerate of others, or whatever, but you are still having an impact. Parents who care, who show they care, who model the behavior and values they want their kids to reflect, and who TALK ABOUT IT WITH THEIR KIDS see better results than parents who 'give up' or who presume (too early) that their kids are "grown up enough to make decisions for themselves," or think they are encouraging them with hands-off "freedom", etc.

Third: There are a bunch of correlative factors that continually recur among kids who succeed. I don't think I remember all of them, but I remember these:

1. They are involved in music, art, or other activities that encourage creative self-expression in an organized, systematic context that requires self-discipline to succeed.

2. They are involved in one or more volunteer activities or social interest groups in their community that require them to interact outside their peer group, school, and family, and that benefit others.

3. They have close bonds to responsible, supportive adults OTHER THAN PARENTS. That is, they have someone they can 'bounce things off' that might be too sensitive or embarrassing to discuss with their parents. Or just someone other than Mom and/or Dad who thinks they are pretty cool and says so.

4. They imagine their future in concrete terms: Not just "wanna be a rock star" or "NBA player" or whatever, but "What does a good future look like, and what I need to do to have one even if I'm not sure about all the details?"

Socioeconomic challenges may present some logistical difficulties, but they do not automatically preclude a youngster having many of the factors that seem to go with success.

What you are talking about shows that, whether you are aware of those details or not, you understand what helps kids succeed and you are generous in supplying it.

Thank you! When I'm old and helpless I hope the kids who grow up in your neighborhood are in charge of my world.

appreciatively,
Bright
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
48. It's great to see your kids become who they are with just a little help
Nice post. Made me remember some of the good parts of parenting. I tried to be a thoughtful parent who could bend to the needs of the moment and who would loosen the leash as the years passed without trying to hang on. I liked being a parent.

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