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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 08:59 PM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Day 62
Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-20">AJE Live Blog April 20 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/libya">The Guardian http://uk.reuters.com/places/libya">Reuters http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/">Telegraph http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x918800">Day 61 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678">Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


Libyan rebels took a breather on the median of the main road to the front line at the outskirts of Ajdabiya

Photograph: Ben Cirtus, Associated Press




http://abcnews.go.com/International/libya-war-month-fight/story?id=13412343">Libya War: One Month Into the Fight
...

Despite Gadhafi's tough talk there are real signs his military, comprised of some 15,000 highly trained troops and perhaps another 50,000 mercenaries, are beginning to feel the strain of the ongoing campaign.

Gadhafi has yet to pacify any area where protests have broken out and instead the armed rebellion only appears to be gathering strength. Even in the western city of Zawiya, where Gadhafi mounted a brutal campaign to control the city, most rebels retreated to wait for the opportunity to return to the fight.

Rather than smother the rebellion, Gadhafi's forces have had to react to an ever-growing uprising encouraged and backed by NATO airstrikes. In addition to Misurata and Ajdabiya in the east, Gadhafi's forces are now trying to put down a rebellion in the far western town of Zintan and throughout the Nafusah Mountains that stretch to the Tunisian border.

...

A NATO spokesman said Gadhafi's forces were splintered and with NATO now targeting his fuel depots and supply lines he can no longer take and hold ground.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8461802/Libya-RAF-Tornados-carry-out-deliberate-multiple-strikes.html">Libya: RAF Tornados carry out 'deliberate, multiple strikes'
...

"We have been watching the situation in Misurata, and over the past 10 days fighting has been intense," he said.

"Our forces have conducted numerous strikes in and around Misurata, and we have destroyed over 40 tanks and several armoured fighting vehicles there."

...

"What we are doing is attacking the regime's ability to supply and sustain these attacks not just in the area of Misurata but across the country," said Gen. van Uhm.

...

"Whenever Gaddafi tries to advance we destroy his supply lines and he has to fall back," said the official. "We suspect he has had to force his troops to advance and we are whacking them. Now we're taking out his communications."


They think they're forced conscripts, too. It's a goddamn travesty.

http://www.andymorganwrites.com/gaddafi-and-the-touareg-love-hate-and-petro-dollars/">GADDAFI AND THE TOUAREG: Love, hate and petro-dollars
Gaddafi has been buying the affections and fighting skills of the nomadic tribes of the Sahara for a long time. His vision of a borderless desert, an Islamic republic of the Sahara, has often found favour with the Touareg, who have been fighting their own struggle for political self-determination and cultural recognition against the governments of Mali and Niger since independence back in 1960. Gaddafi invited young Touareg immigrants in Libya to join his Islamic Legion in the early 1980s before sending them off to fight wars in Chad, the Sudan and the Lebanon. The same Touareg soldiers then unleashed their own rebellions against Mali and Niger in the 1990s. Despite widespread suspicion that Gaddafi only ever helped the Touareg to further his own territorial schemes, many Touareg fear the consequences of his fall from power. After all, for the past half century, he is the only head of state in the world who has ever supported their cause with arms and cash.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/world/africa/18misurata.html?_r=2&hp">In a Medical Tent in Libya, a Grim Procession
MISURATA, Libya — Jinan Hussein Jweil rested on her back on a gurney inside the triage tent. Either a bullet or a piece of whizzing shrapnel had struck the 5-year-old high on the right side of her head.

A Libyan and Italian medical team worked to save her. It was not certain they could. “Her brain is out,” said Dr. Abdullah Juwid, a surgeon.

As the ugly math of a midsize city suffering a siege would have it, Dr. Juwid was both a doctor in an overcrowded triage tent and an uncle of this wounded child. He had no time to dwell on her case.

A pickup truck skidded to a stop outside. Several rebel fighters carried their bullet-riddled friend through the entrance flap. The man appeared to have been in his 20s. He had been shot through both legs and squarely in his chest and mouth. His pupils were fixed.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/19/gaddafi-violence-exaggerated-british-group">Gaddafi violence against Libya civilians exaggerated, says British group
The group had not visited Misrata, the rebel-held enclave under siege by Gaddafi forces, nor had it investigated the issue of detainees. It had not asked to visit any prisons, and had chosen not to examine the case of Iman al-Obeidi, the Libyan woman who claimed she had been raped multiple times by Gaddafi troops.

...

Members of the delegation queued at the microphone to attack the British media, saying it was partisan towards the Nato military action. "Some of the reports from Benghazi and Misrata are totally one-sided," said one. "There is a very high degree of distortion," an Italian film-maker who accompanied the delegation said.

They expressed sympathy for the Libyan regime's restrictions placed on foreign media, which is not allowed to leave the Rixos without a government official and whose movements, even with minders, are highly circumscribed.

...

The press conference became heated as members of the group wrestled the microphone from their colleagues. Eventually the group departed, copies of the conclusions of their "fact-finding mission" tucked under arms and in briefcases. It would use them as a launch pad for a campaign in the UK, Roberts said. And it intended to mount a similar mission to eastern Libya next month.




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map


Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=730234&mesg_id=731532

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594751

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’ Italy: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://jenkinsear.com/2011/03/19/a-legal-war-the-united-nations-participation-act-and-libya/">A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has http://www.un.org/en/sc/repertoire/actions.shtml#rel5">never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV § 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode22/usc_sec_22_00000287---d000-.html">without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 § 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/1541–1548.html">"specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. § 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/obama_explains_libya_mission_to_congress/2011/03/03/ABU9377_blog.html">which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2011/03/2011328194855872276.html">Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/31/getting_libyas_rebels_wrong">Getting Libya's Rebels Wrong
Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.


http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvS7iW22">Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/29/vision-democratic-libya-interim-national-council">A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.



Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/23/a_bright_voice_from_libyas_darkness">this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Current time in Libya, 4:00am Wednesday, April 20
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. U.N. says 20 children killed in Misrata, wants truce
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/20/uk-libya-idUKLDE71Q0MP20110420">U.N. says 20 children killed in Misrata, wants truce
(Reuters) - The United Nations appealed on Tuesday for a cease-fire in the Libyan city of Misrata, saying at least 20 children had been killed in attacks by besieging government forces on rebel-held parts of the city.

Libya's third city, where hundreds are believed to have been killed by shelling and sniper fire by Muammar Gaddafi's forces, is the main focus of efforts to protect civilians caught up in the Libyan leader's bid to put down an armed rebellion.

At the same time Western powers are looking for ways to support the rebels' efforts to topple Gaddafi, though NATO said there were limits to what air power could do to end the city's siege.

Britain said it would send military officers to advise the rebels on organisation and communications, but not to train or arm fighters. France said the West had underestimated Gaddafi's ability to adapt his tactics in response to the NATO operation.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. France opposes idea of sending troops to Libya
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/19/uk-libya-france-juppe-idUKTRE73I4KF20110419">France opposes idea of sending troops to Libya
(Reuters) - France is opposed to the idea of sending troops into Libya to guide air strikes as the West struggles to break a military stalemate in the North African country, Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said on Tuesday.

Juppe said the situation in Libya was "difficult" and "confused" a month after France launched the first U.N.-mandated strikes against Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

He added that the West had underestimated the Libyan leader's ability to adapt his tactics in response to the coalition campaign.

Gaddafi's army has switched to light vehicles like pickup trucks after strikes led by France, Britain and the United States targeted his tanks and heavy weaponry.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. France to step up air strikes to protect civilians


AFP | Apr 20, 2011, 05.51am IST

France will step up its air strikes in Libya to protect civilians from Muammer Gaddafi's forces, visiting French PM Francois Fillon said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/France-to-step-up-air-strikes-to-protect-civilians/articleshow/8033364.cms







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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Migrant boat carrying 760 reaches Italy from Libya
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/19/uk-libya-italy-boat-idUKTRE73I55Z20110419">Migrant boat carrying 760 reaches Italy from Libya
(Reuters) - A boat carrying 760 people, most of them from sub-Saharan Africa, arrived on the southern Italian island of Lampedusa from Libya on Tuesday, authorities said, part of the North African immigration crisis.

The boatload was one of the largest to arrive in years on the tiny island, located roughly midway between Sicily and Tunisia, which has been at the centre of an immigration crisis triggered by the upheavals in North Africa.

Some 25,000 illegal migrants, most from Tunisia, have arrived in Lampedusa and other southern islands since the start of the year, when previously strict border controls disappeared in the turmoil that has swept the region.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
71. K/R -- LIBYA HURRA -- !!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Audio: Fighting in Az-Zawiyah never stopped
http://audioboo.fm/boos/336150-lpc-from-tripoli-says-anti-gaddafi-fighting-in-zawiya-never-stopped-libya-feb17

If true this would explain why the media still has not been allowed back in to Az-Zawiya.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
56. Tweet:@ehkayy: BREAKING: LAST NIGHT #AzZawiya killed THIRTY #Gaddafi militia!
@ehkayy: BREAKING: LAST NIGHT #AzZawiya killed THIRTY #Gaddafi militia! they went into martyr square dressed as FEMALES then attacked LOOOL
http://twitter.com/#!/ehkayy

I know, it's only a tweet. But still...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. AC360 tonight: Mission Impossible in Libya? (10pm Eastern on CNN)
Looks like a full program, with just one segment on Libya (with a live update from Ben Wedeman).


Tonight we're Keeping Them Honest, with questions about the mission in Libya.

Last month President Obama said the United States "has done what we said we would do" when handing over the mission to NATO.

But is NATO doing enough?

...


We'll dig deeper with CNN's Ben Wedeman in Benghazi, retired Army General Mark Kimmitt and Jill Dougherty at the U.S. State Department.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/13/evening-buzz-mission-impossible-in-libya/







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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks for the heads up pinboy3niner!
I have to afk for about 2 hours, but I will be back to update for most of the night, so do try to get some rest. :hug:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't worry about me
I don't think you slept at all last night, Josh.

I woke up after 3 hrs and was going to stay up, but decided to sleep just a little longer--and woke up 5 hrs later! So I'm good, if you want to get some rest. Tabatha and Iterate also made it a very easy day for me.


:hug:






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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Misurata says it has asked for foreign ground troops
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/misurata-body-says-it-has-asked-for-foreign-troops/2011/04/19/AFH6sJ6D_story.html">Misurata says it has asked for foreign ground troops
MISURATA, Libya — The top governing committee in this besieged western city said Tuesday that it had made an official request for foreign troops on the ground here to stop the killing of civilians by Moammar Gaddafi’s forces.

The request, which a member of Misurata’s Judicial Committee said was sent last week, marks the first time ground troops have been formally sought in Libya as a humanitarian crisis looms in the strategic port city after a nearly two-month siege.

Food, water and gas are running out in Misurata as Gaddafi’s troops pummel power stations, water tanks, food storage units and other key infrastructure with rockets, mortars and artillery fire. An untrained and outgunned rebel force has been unable to halt shelling and sniper fire in residential neighborhoods. The city’s only opening to the outside world, the port, is under constant attack, routinely preventing access to it from land or sea.

“We need a force from NATO or the United Nations on the ground now,” committee member Nouri Abdullah Abdulati told reporters Tuesday.


Note: I was told the "real rebels" didn't want this. Back, you know, in early March when the rebels were driving across Libya thinking they were about to liberate their country. Conflicts change, and Misrata is in the shitter. I'm still not sure where I stand on this one, but I don't want the US to be involved in any way, I stand by that part.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Shouldn't we of the Left be cheering rebel setbacks like this?
Aren't these the puppets of the big oil companies that are being smashed?
Isn't Qadaffi giving Western imperialism a black eye?
Don't the EU, and NATO, now stand revealed for what they are -- merely the latest generation of European colonialists?
Isn't the truth about the UN, and especially the UN Security Council now clear -- they are the tool of Israel and via Israel, the United States?
And what are we to make of representatives of the indigenous peoples of the third world -- Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc, -- fighting side by side with their Libyan brothers against this Western agression?

Is everything I learned in the 60's and 70's wrong?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Your interpretation is wrong.
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 10:20 PM by tabatha
Second time I posted this.

For the Libyans, the model was Tunisia and Egypt. Unfortunately, Gaddafi is not Mubarak. And there are no WikiLeaks revelations to do the Gaddafi family in as the Tunisian head was.

I'll add some more comments - Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc, are not fighting Western aggression - they are being paid BIG bucks by Gaddafi to masscare Libyans.

a) Not one Western person has been killed by Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc.
b) Tons of innocent Libyans have been killed by Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc.
c) Western intervention is solely to stop "Tons of innocent Libyans have been killed by Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc."

Get it ???

I should add

10,000 Libyans have been killed by Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc.
0 Westerners.

Don't you think it should be stopped before 20,000 Libyans have been killed by Algerians, Chadians, Mauritanians, etc.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. *poke* he's being cheeky
I think you know that but are just being sure. :hi:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Nope, did not know that. I was practising duh'mery (again).
I think I have argued with too many trolls. I can't tell anymore if they are serious or not.

:hi:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Davis_X_Machina is a good friend of the rebels.
I haven't seen him get into strong debates over them, he usually hits and runs with sarcasm that people can't decipher. ;) :hi:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, at least it served as an airing
of two sides of an argument. (If there was any interest.)
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UnseenUndergrad Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. I hear you.
Frankly though, it just shows how paranoid Bush's forays into Afghanistan and Iraq have made some on the left.

However, I'm getting a whiff of a "Long Long Life to Chairman Mao" coming from certain posters on how the West has no right to interfere... verging on repeating regime propaganda. I'm also beginning to idly wonder how much of Gadaffi's big pile of gold is being spent on web-based propaganda efforts.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
41. Yeah
People are so determined to not believe American propaganda that they're believing Gaddafi's propaganda. Some posts and threads here feel like I'm watching Libyan state TV.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. He doesn't need to touch that gold...
...the old categories, old habits, and old reflexes of the Left are all he needs.

We -- or a large number of us -- will do that for him.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
72. +1000% --- thank you!!
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The TNC opposes use of foreign ground combat troops
The Misrata committee sent its request to the TNC a week ago and has yet to receive a reply. The TNC is not likely to reverse itself on this.






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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Exactly, it's two different groups in two different situations.
I think that the TNC may be receptive of a UN aid mission, it depends. They cannot be seen as the Misrata rebels as throwing them under the bus, they have to understand their situations are different.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Misurata rebels show ingenuity in Libya war

Source: Los Angeles Times





Young gangs living on borrowed time use wits and captured weapons to protect streets from Moammar Kadafi's forces.


By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times

April 19, 2011, 7:25 p.m.

...


The bands, each with a commander, have quickly evolved, coordinating the supply of weapons and trucks, defending Misurata's rebel-held neighborhoods and answering emergency battle calls. In their David-vs.-Goliath fight, they have shown aplomb and ingenuity, sneaking up on a tank and attaching a bomb to its bottom or side, ambushing soldiers from rooftops with heavy machine guns, even burning small buildings with Kadafi's snipers lurking inside.


Their most inventive act may have been partitioning Tripoli Street with sand-filled trucks into three sections. Now Kadafi's snipers are holed up in a life insurance building, post office and a trade bank; from there they open fire on the surrounding areas.


But with daily shelling and with the city isolated, Misurata and its gangs fear they are living on borrowed time. The pressure builds by the day. Bread and fuel lines grow longer, and more and more Libyans are thinking of leaving the city. The city's pool of men is limited. Streets have been unofficially renamed for those who have died on their pavement.

...


All of the fighters know that, at some point, their hand-me-down and captured weapons could run out and the shrinking number of fighters could be overrun. They wish NATO troops would help them flush out Kadafi's fighters and destroy the antiaircraft guns, mortars and artillery that hammer Misurata. They've asked. Except for a blunt "no" from the U.S., the response has been equivocal.


So they fight on.

...


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-misurata-20110419,0,1868487.story




Good article on the Free Libya fighters in Misrata!






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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Libyan rebel chief with U.S. ties feels abandoned (slightly dated article)
Edited on Tue Apr-19-11 10:55 PM by joshcryer
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/04/12/v-print/1603350/libyan-rebel-chief-with-us-ties.html">Libyan rebel chief with U.S. ties feels abandoned
In one of his first interviews since he returned to Libya, Hifter said that he'd been appointed the rebels' field commander this week. The hourlong interview he gave to two reporters Monday was arranged by the official rebel military spokesman and conducted in an office in the rebels' military headquarters. An organizational chart Hifter displayed showed him as equal to Gen. Abdelfatah Younis, a former Gadhafi interior minister who also lays claim to rebel command.

But his authority remains unclear. Fathi Baja, a member of the Transitional National Council, the rebel governing body, confirmed Tuesday that Hifter had been named field commander, but said that he reported to Younis. A council spokesman, Mustafa Gheriani, denied Hifter's claims to leadership and referred to him as a civilian. At a news conference last week, Younis denied that Hifter had a leadership role.

The controversy - along with his two-decade exile in the United States - makes Hifter one of the most intriguing figures in revolutionary Libya.

Gray-haired and ultra-confident, the 67-year-old Hifter, who was a top Libyan military commander when he broke with Gadhafi in 1987, denied working for the CIA, but said that as an opponent of one of the world's most secretive regimes, he was close enough to U.S. officials in Washington that "when I needed something, they would help me."


An old man trying to make the end of his life mean something. Posting here for prosperity because this guy keeps coming up as some sort of CIA infiltrator, but turns out to be a nobody (which, btw, I predicted he wouldn't have a role in the TNC).
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. Flag Drop in Tripoli
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqDum0T340w

(Awesome, but dicey to put on YouTube)
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-19-11 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. 'Rebal rap' in Libya - video
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. Rebels digging in for standoff at Ajdabiyah--McClatchy


The fighting in eastern Libya has devolved into a desultory tug-of-war along the pivotal coastal strip, with the rebels literally digging in for what they expect will be a long standoff against Gadhafi forces at Ajdabiya, 100 miles south of Benghazi, the rebel capital. Bulldozers have created a berm of sand at the town's western edge to help rebels mount a defense against any pro-Gadhafi foray. There have been no NATO airstrikes near the rebel positions since Sunday, rebels said.

"Ajdabiya is the zero point. We will start operations from there in a couple of weeks," a rebel military spokesman, Col. Ahmed Bani, said Tuesday.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/04/19/112467/libya-campaign-enters-new-month.html#ixzz1K2IPfFxY



The Col.'s statement is interesting--and seemingly at odds with the 'long standoff' premise.






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. Social media in Libya carrying unconfirmed reports that state TV is down--Al Jazeera nt



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. The Libyan revolution has been tough on rebel fighter and guitarist Massoud Abu Assir's rock band...
From Al Jazeera:

The Libyan revolution has been tough on rebel fighter and guitarist Massoud Abu Assir's rock band, the Associated Press reports.

His bass player was captured by Muammar Gaddafi's forces, and when he is not fighting, his drummer is. But those setbacks haven't stopped the 38-year-old amateur musician from composing songs in support of the revolution and performing them for rebels on the battlefield.

He made an appearance last Saturday on the outskirts of the front line city of Ajdabiya as fierce fighting raged about 25 miles (40 kilometres) away.

"My homeland will be strong. My homeland will be free. We will take our homeland up high," he sings in folksy Arabic verse, reminiscent of Bob Dylan.

Rebels crowded around as he sang, clapping their hands and joining in.

His band, originally called "Libya Tomorrow" but now known as "Free Libya," tried to perform on Libyan television in the past but was told they must sing songs praising Gadhafi.

Abu Assir's bass player, Faisal Fakran, was captured in Brega during an earlier battle.

6:23.am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-20






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
27. US 'concerned' for journalists held in Libya


WASHINGTON, UNITED STATES - Apr 20 2011 06:30

The United States is "very concerned" for the well-being of four journalists who have been held in Libya for two weeks, the White House said on Tuesday.

In reference to the four reporters missing in Libya -- including South African photographer Anton Hammerl -- White House spokesperson Jay Carney said that "we are very concerned but can't go into detail" in a Twitter post.

"We're working hard to assist them in any way we can," Carney said.

Besides Hammerl, Clare Morgana Gillis, of the TheAtlantic.com, James Foley, a freelance reporter with GlobalPost.com and Spanish photographer Manu Brabo, went missing on April 4 in eastern Libya.


http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-20-us-concerned-for-journalists-held-in-libya







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catchnrelease Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
28. k&r
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. Libya: evacuation of Misurata 'to take at least a fortnight'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8461702/Libya-evacuation-of-Misurata-to-take-at-least-a-fortnight.html">Libya: evacuation of Misurata 'to take at least a fortnight'
With each return voyage taking three days, at the current rate, evacuation would take at least a fortnight.

Doctors in Misurata estimate at least 600 have died and 3,000 have been wounded as the city has held out for more than 50 days against Libyan regime artillery and troops.

The most recent evacuation delivered hundreds of Ghanaians as well as dozens of recently wounded Libyans from the town's overstretched hospitals.

As the wounded were divided among Benghazi's hospitals, they told The Daily Telegraph that shelling in Libya's third largest city had made it impossible for civilians to leave their homes.


10 / day is a little bit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo">higher than Sarajevo but still significantly lower than http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/world/americas/23venez.html">Venezuela.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
30. Libya death toll 'reaches 10,000' - video
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/2011419114217768868.html">Libya death toll 'reaches 10,000'
Libya's opposition leaders have said that at least 10,000 people have died since the start of the conflict in February.

Al Jazeera's correspondent, Mike Hanna reporting from Benghazi, said: "Given the intensity of the conflict, it doesn't come as a surprise.

"We have focused on areas like Misurata, where the humanitarian crisis is well documented, however it is happening throughout Libya, the full extent of the crisis is not known and there is no real idea of (casualty) figures."

The United Nations says it has been guaranteed humanitarian access to Misurata, while Britain says it will fund efforts to evacuate thousands of stranded migrant workers by boat from the besieged port city.


Amazing report from Al Jazeera. Covers also the black African crisis.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. Libyan opposition fortifies Ajdabiya - video (AJE)
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
32. Flag Drop in Tripoli
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
33. Libyan preachers attack Gadhafi from pulpit



By BEN HUBBARD, Associated Press – 35 mins ago


BENGHAZI, Libya – Libyan ruler Moammar Gadhafi's secret police once haunted the country's mosques, locking up, torturing and killing Muslim preachers whose talk they considered a threat.

...


Contrary to efforts by Gadhafi's regime to depict the uprising as led by al-Qaida seeking to impose an Islamic state, many of the newly liberated clerics are telling their flocks that the country needs a civil
democratic government.



"We demand our rights, for this is just. We demand to know where our country's wealth is, for this is just. And we demand our dignity!" preacher Mohammed Taeb roared to a crowd of 500 at his Benghazi mosque in a recent Friday sermon. "We demand a civil and civilized state ... We want what all free people want!"


Taeb, who was jailed for seven years by the regime, urged his congregation to work for a civil state with strong institutions and freedoms of speech and association. He also clearly enjoyed lashing out at Gadhafi, calling him a "one-of-a-kind lout, a bizarre weirdo."


The call, made in many mosques in the east, mirrors the stance of the political leadership of the two-month old rebel movement based in Benghazi, Libya's second largest city, which says it seeks a civilian democracy in which religion will have a limited role in government.

...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_libya_rebel_preachers








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
34. Libya foreign minister says free elections could be held

Source: The Guardian





Abdul Ati al-Obeidi says regime prepared to consider interim government before elections six months after conflict ends


Harriet Sherwood in Tripoli
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 20 April 2011 08.05 BST



Libya could hold free elections, supervised by the United Nations, within six months of the end of the conflict engulfing the country, its foreign minister has told the Guardian.


Abdul Ati al-Obeidi, who took over from Moussa Koussa after his defection from Libya last month, said the regime was prepared to consider an interim national government before elections could be held. A six-month period had been discussed, he said.


Obeidi said discussions about reform included "whether the Leader should stay and in what role, and whether he should retire". Gaddafi's future has become a pivotal issue between the regime and the opposition, which has demanded his departure.


Obeidi said: "Everything will be on the table."

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/20/libya-foreign-minister-free-elections








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. Opposition welcomes all assistance, barring presence of foreign troops on the ground--AJ
Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna reported from Benghazi, " The dominant voice (from the opposition forces) has been the plea for heavy weapons, there are other issues prevalent within the opposition forces.

"Firstly communication, they have been passing messages by word of mouth.

"Secondly, command and control, there are two commanders, and each is arguing with the other about who exactly is in control.

And as for the what the opposition forces need help with, "the political leadership says that all assistance is welcomed and needed, barring the presence of foreign troops on the ground," our correspondent added.

"So it is extremely clear what is needed, like body armour and communication systems, but it is equally clear what is not needed, which is physical presence of foreign troops here on the ground."

10:17am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-20






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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. It's good that they maintain this position, imo.
Hopefully Misrata can hold on a while longer and they can get aid in to there.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. It's easier to get foreign troops in than it is to get them out
While TNC doesn't want foreign ground combat troops, they've said they would accept limited military presence on the ground for the purpose of securing humanitarian aid missions.





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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. The left: slipping towards Qaddafi?
http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/04/20/left-slipping-towards-qaddafi">The left: slipping towards Qaddafi?
When the revolt against Qaddafi started in Libya, hardly anyone on the left — however broadly defined — could say anything in defence of Qaddafi.

With the start of the "no-fly zone", many on the left started to sideline the issues within Libya and focus their efforts on denouncing NATO.

Now the denunciation of NATO, in turn, is acting as a lever to introduce defence of Qaddafi and denunciation of the rebels into broad-left discourse.

...

Everything is done by insinuation and sarcasm, just as old-style Stalinists used to deflect criticism of the USSR by studied wondering whether the regime was quite as bad as extreme Western right-wingers used to say, or whether the right-wingers' motives for criticism might be suspect.


You can read that article http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x913509">here. The vulgar "insinuation and sarcasm" really rings true to me, I lament the state of the far left, the radicals, the socialists these days. I am a libertarian socialist, and I saw the uprising as purely a desire to be free, much like all of the mass protests in the Arab Spring. The way the rebels went from being hero's fighting against a tyrant to nothing more than pawns of the imperialists struck a chord with me, and invoked visions of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion">Kronstadt Rebellion, where the Bolsheviks threw the soviets under the bus for wanting to enter the Third Revolutionary Stage, and implement a workers democracy. The soviets were deionized as nothing more than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_army">White movement anti-revolutionary fascists. Which rings true with the slanders as the rebels having CIA backed leaders, being infiltrated by al-Qaeda, being an expat conspiracy in the making for years, the list does indeed go on. It's the same Stalinist tactic, and it breaks my heart.

We have learned nothing from history.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. The dangers of ideology
It blinds you to humanity and to an accurate perception of reality. When defending an ideal becomes more important than defending human freedom...well, one example here in the US is Ayn Rand. People put her ideals over humanity and reality, and we're all paying an extremely steep price for that.

But yeah - Libya has really shown the ugliness of ideology on the left. I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of people recently. And it's not just Americans - one disturbing trend I've noticed in the Arab world is that some of the loudest pro-Palestine voices are also pro-Gaddafi, and I simply cannot understand that. It makes no rational sense, any way that I look at it. How can you say that some lives are worth more than others, that some people deserve freedom and human rights but others don't? Is there some deep seated prejudice against the Libyans, that so many people are willing to throw them under the bus and let them be tortured and raped and killed while these same people strongly defend the lives of people of other nationalities?
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fivepennies Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
60. "one disturbing trend I've noticed
in the Arab world is that some of the loudest pro-Palestine voices are also pro-Gaddafi, and I simply cannot understand that. It makes no rational sense, any way that I look at it."

Is our understanding of their purposes and positions their true goal, or it is rather to keep others who are more consistent in their views off balance?

Some people still believe in and practice the old maxim:

propose what you oppose
oppose what you propose

Inconsistencies and conflicts in people's stated positions, such as you noted in your post, are usually the thing that'll out those who try to confuse us fastest and they should be treated as dishonest dealers. Well, at least until they get their priorities straightened out, its either freedom and justice for all or freedom and special advantages for a few at the expense of others. Who would listen to snyone who proposed the latter?

I hope that made sense - just my fivepennies
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
39. Opposition leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil to meet French Pres. Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris on Wed.
The Reuters news agency has reported that Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the head of Libya's rebels will meet French President Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris on Wednesday.

The meeting will be the first time that Sarkozy, the first foreign leader to recognise the rebels' national transition council, will meet Jalil, who was formerly Gaddafi's justice minister.

Jalil is expected to ask that NATO increase air strikes and he could supply a list of names of officials in Tripoli with whom the opposition would be willing to work if Gaddafi departs, a source close to the Libyan opposition said on Tuesday.

10:45am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-20






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. Libyan opposition pleads for military humanitarian intervention

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

•An opposition spokesman says he does not want international fighters joining rebels

•British military officers will work with the Libyan opposition

•An opposition spokesman says dozens have been killed in Misrata this week




By the CNN Wire Staff

April 20, 2011 -- Updated 1001 GMT (1801 HKT)


Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- In a country where civilians live in chronic fear of ruler Moammar Gadhafi's troops, Libya's main opposition body has pleaded for an international military intervention to create a humanitarian path to protect residents of besieged cities.


Libyans are "being slaughtered every day by the Gadhafi forces," rebel spokesman Shamsiddin Abdulmolah told CNN on Tuesday.


Residents of besieged cities are not getting adequate help because aid agencies are afraid of going to areas such as Misrata, which is being targeted by Gadhafi troops daily, said Mohamed Ibrahim, an opposition activist.


"Some of them, they come. But most of them, they come near ... they hear the shelling and everything and they go back," he said.


At least 24 people were killed and 113 were injured Sunday and Monday, according to an opposition spokesman who wanted to be identified only as "Mohammed" for safety reasons.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/20/libya.war/








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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
43. For Kalid: my brother is martyered today in zintan
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 08:00 AM by Iterate
"my brother is martyered today in zintan GOD BLESS himwe will always fight him,many more libyans coming back to fight #Gaddafi libya is ours 3:51 AM Apr 11th via web"

http://twitter.com/#!/operationlibyia

Part of this was posted last night. These are all from fighter/twitter "reporter" kalid zalitin aka @operationlibyia. He had a brief history of tweets, beginning on Feb 22nd. They're in narrative order, oldest first. I've omitted his retweets, replies, and many of the earlier reactions to the events during March. The list is simply too long otherwise. I've tried to make it as easy to read as possible, without altering the immediacy if I can.


# We need to come out all as one tomorrow Brothers and Sisters. Stand together. Inshallah 22 Feb via web

# every protester and every libyian come to tripoli asap. time to take our country back. May Allah be with Us all. 25 Feb via web

# I am Zaid, From Libya, was born In states, lived in Tripoli most of life family from zintant, I am willing 2 die 4 #libyan brothers+sisters 25 Mar via web

# Guys dont forget us in #Zintan we have been here battleing the evil gaddafi sends for week. with nothing more then 1920's guns.#PRAY4Zintan Friday, April 08, 2011 9:48:15 PM via web

# my brother is martyered today in zintan GOD BLESS himwe will always fight him,many more libyans coming back to fight #Gaddafi libya is ours Monday, April 11, 2011 2:51:40 AM via web

# We know whats right,we have just 1 life,#gaddafi u have many friends in the world thanks to #libyan money,They will see #libya is 4 libyans Monday, April 11, 2011 3:05:41 AM via web

# LIBYA 4 libyans, Not #gaddafi, not #alqeada, Feedom we will fight for till either we dead or free, well we know its gona be hard fight, 2/3 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:08:22 AM via web

# Soo sad my brother was a Lawyer who worked in tripoli, came to help us fight in zintant , left behind 3 kids and a wife, 1/3 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:16:16 AM via web
he was not afraid of death, nor am i , we just afraid that our kids will still live in fear with #gaddafi there. 2/3 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:19:10 AM via web
I was a #Libyan man,Along the the desert i would ride, Many of us die on this land, I was a Engineer, When #gaddafi fought us when we stood, Monday, April 11, 2011 3:39:00 AM via web

# libya hurt its self today, to see if it still feel, #libya has soo much pain, the only thing is real, but we remeber how good #libya is 1/2 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:47:39 AM
what have #libya become, #gaddafi turn it into a place of pain, for 42 years, we stodd in the stains of time, #LIBYANS still right here, 2/3 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:49:10 AM
what have we become, Heroes, Mryters, #gaddafi empire of hurt, will fall, we will bring it down, We will find a way 3/3 Monday, April 11, 2011 3:50:37 AM via web

# Please people of the world Help us, we can only shed so much blood, people of peace stand and be counted, stop #Dictators now protest NOW Monday, April 11, 2011 4:22:28 AM via web

# libyan brothers and sisters check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKHf9FKKfbI&feature=related truth is our strenght. Monday, April 11, 2011 4:45:19 AM via web

# TUNISIAN people #EGYPTIAN People exerices your new found voice to protect your Libyan brothers and sisters. All of us has lost many lives
16 Apr via web

# We have gained some weps from gaddafi forces in zintant today , dawn attacks are fun ; ) god willing many to some soon Saturday, April 16, 2011 3:31:49 PM via web

# We sorry we haven't tweeted. We have many of us being shelled NW of Libya area. there's alot has happened as we stated before weekend 1/2 Sunday, April 17, 2011 11:02:18 PM via Twitter for Android

# Where is #nato4libya. #zintan needs help Monday, April 18, 2011 4:38:50 AM via Twitter for Android

# Whats #Africans doing in #Libya. Go fight for your own causes, Respect to the #african brothers N sisters who arent easly brought. Monday, April 18, 2011 8:56:30 PM via web

# These are and could be my last tweet. I am using sat net from zintan hospital. Was injured in battle today. We have very few medicine 1/3 about 17 hours ago via Twitter for Android
We will not give up nor give in, its not about life anymore, its about human dignity and rights. All our followers. 2/3 about 16 hours ago via Twitter for Android
All tweets will b in Arabic if I can't make it. As am only English speaker here ATM. #freedom4libya #freedom4zintan #freedom4all about 16 hours ago via Twitter for Android

# Wallahi don't forget our dream for #freelibya #freesyria #freedom4all. We are just people who want peace and security about 16 hours ago via Twitter for Android

# Peace2all from Khalid Ahmed alghirani. about 16 hours ago via Twitter for Android


The next tweets are in Arabic:

# Peace be upon you people my name is Abdul Basit
God willing, brother Khalid will be fine and I'm trying to last as much as I can
I'm new to Twitter, please bear with me...


Abdul had picked up the banner. Not long after, there was this, delivered in English and sounding irrepressible:

"with all the dead , we still have good news. we have captured many of gaddafi trucks and ammo. vor ungefähr 1 Stunde via web"


I don't know if the last one was from Kalid, or if it was one last translation for, or from, someone else on the scene.

Hundreds of tweets and retweets soon followed, such as this:

@Tripolitanian Libyan Khalid, owner of the Twitter account @operationlibyia is in critical condition - #Zintan and #Nalut need medical supplies
vor 2 Stunden.

And just 12 hours ago there was this:

brother khaled just became one of the shuhada vor 12 Stunden via web


Soon after, the account icon was changed, and we have a face to go with the words:

Zintan @operationlibyia

face fear with hope,war with peace,frowns with a smile.We are Group aiming to achieve goodwill when all hope is gone, RIP Khalid 19/04.

There were two songs he thought well enough of to tweet. The first, an odd but somehow engaging remix (I doubt he understood the subtleties of US politics, so go easy):

Gadaffi...God's gonna cut you down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c3YjmTwax8

And there was this:
Libyan revolution - I hope - Sami Yusuf
http://youtu.be/ZKHf9FKKfbI


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Nicely done tribute.
Thank you.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. I very much appreciate your efforts on this compilation /nt
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
82. "The death of a Libyan patriot: Khalid Alghirani remembered"
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 04:29 PM by Iterate

The Death of a Libyan Patriot: Khalid Alghirani Remembered



Photo: Khalid Ahmed Alghirani and his son. Photo credit @OperationLibyia

Wednesday, 20 April 2011

By LILIANE KHALIL

ZINTAN, Libya - Personal accounts of the battle along the frontline in Zintan, Libya, have been few and far between. Since the start of Gaddafi military operations against rebel fighters, journalists have had a difficult time getting into hard-hit areas such as Zintan, a city in northwestern Libya.

Surfacing on Twitter shortly after the uprising in Libya occurred, a group of Libyan revolutionaries who operated under the handle @OperationLibyia, began sending out messages with updates on the desperate situation in the region. The sole English-speaking spokesman, Khalid Ahmed Alghirani, who was known as Kalid Zalitin, kept Twitter followers updated with the dire situation on the ground. ”Kalid Zalitin’s” tweets became a lifeline for many Libyans seeking news from abroad, as well as journalists and those interested in the emergency in Zintan.

On Tuesday, 19 April, the Zintan fighters encountered a fierce battle with Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s troops and Khalid received a wound to the chest. What could have been a simple procedure in a medical centre outfitted with modern supplies and equipment, became a critical situation when surgeons in the unit did not even have basic supplies such as packing gauze, sutures and proper lighting to conduct surgery. It was reported that surgeons were using the lights of mobile phones to examine Khalid’s wound, and he was listed on Tuesday afternoon in critical condition.

Throughout Khalid’s painful ordeal, he continued to Tweet, knowing that as he was the only English-speaking member of the group, the information he provided would be able to reach a much larger audience. Particularly since the group was attempting to reach out to NATO who had recently bombed the area - wounding many, and killing an unknown number of civilians on the ground. Beyond basic war zone triage equipment, the hospital in Zintan also lacked medication to help ease Khalid’s pain. Despite his wounds and knowing that without emergency surgery his chances of survival decreased each hour, Khalid continued to tweet from his account.

Finally, as the pain became more than he could bear, and his lungs began to fill with blood, Khalid handed over his Twitter account to his cousin, Abdul Basit, and alerted his followers that future tweets would be in Arabic. Abdul tweeted next: “Inshallah, Khalid will be fine. I will try to hang on as much as I can…”

In the evening of Tuesday, 19 April, Khalid dictated a tweet to his followers: “This could be my final tweet. I am using satellite net from Zintan Hospital. Was injured in battle and there is very little medicine.”

In the end, Khalid Alghirani succumbed to his injuries and died on Wednesday, 20 April, of a collapsed lung at Zintan Hospital. He leaves behind a wife and a son. His haunting final tweet will remain a battle cry for the noble Libyan democratic fighters who remain:

“We will not give up nor give in, its not about life anymore, its about human dignity and rights. ” - Khalid Alghirani

http://lilianekhalil.tumblr.com/

CC/SA License

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
45. Libya says it is prepared for free elections, leader’s role negotiable
By Simon Denyer, Wednesday, April 20, 6:55 AM

TRIPOLI, Libya — The Libyan government says it is prepared to hold free elections under international supervision after a transitional period of around six months, with the role of Moammar Gaddafi open for discussion.

Striking a significantly more dovish tone than other members of his government, Libyan Foreign Minister Abdul Ati al-Obeidi called for an internationally monitored cease-fire and said his government was ready to sit down and talk “with our brothers from Benghazi,” provided NATO stopped its campaign of airstrikes.

“After all, we are all Libyans, we are all brothers,” he said in an interview late Tuesday. “The blood is Libyan. Whoever is killed is dear to all of us.” Speaking to reporters from The Washington Post, the Guardian, BBC and ITN, he added: “We are sure that if this bombing stopped, and there is a real cease-fire, we could have a dialogue among all Libyans, about what they want, democracy, political reform, elections.”



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyan-government-prepared-for-free-elections-leaders-role-negotiable/2011/04/20/AFnZVhAE_story.html

Good start. But who has done the most killing?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
46. Who is in charge?
Libya Live Blog - April 20
10:17am

Al Jazeera's Mike Hanna reported from Benghazi, " The dominant voice (from the opposition forces) has been the plea for heavy weapons, there are other issues prevalent within the opposition forces.

"Firstly communication, they have been passing messages by word of mouth.

"Secondly, command and control, there are two commanders, and each is arguing with the other about who exactly is in control.

And as for the what the opposition forces need help with, "the political leadership says that all assistance is welcomed and needed, barring the presence of foreign troops on the ground," our correspondent added.

"So it is extremely clear what is needed, like body armour and communication systems, but it is equally clear what is not needed, which is physical presence of foreign troops here on the ground."

http://youtu.be/2xWNuFBjHEM

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-20
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
47. EXCLUSIVE-Gaddafi's Libya dodges fuel sanctions via Tunisia
EXCLUSIVE-Gaddafi's Libya dodges fuel sanctions via Tunisia
Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:09pm GMT

By Jessica Donati and Emma Farge

LONDON, April 20 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's government is circumventing international sanctions to import gasoline to western Libya by using intermediaries who transfer the fuel between ships in Tunisia.

One intermediary company, Hong Kong-based Champlink, previously unknown to the oil trading community, has sought a transaction for fuel delivery into Libya, and European oil traders said they had been approached by other such firms.

"Gaddafi's people are looking to buy gasoline, via (Tunisian port) La Skhira... and Champlink. They ship-to-ship at La Skhira," said a source with direct knowledge of the situation.

In a fax, obtained by Reuters, Champlink approached trading firms with an "urgent" request stating, "we have been appointed as procurers for end user in Libya and looking for ready shipments for gasoline."

Continue...
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73J1BK20110420?sp=true

Even with Zawaiyah back in production, Gaddafi can't refine enough for both civilian and military use. Also, much of the electrical generation is from diesel.


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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
49. UPDATE 1-Libyan attacks on Misrata may be war crimes-UN
UPDATE 1-Libyan attacks on Misrata may be war crimes-UN
Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:30pm GMT

GENEVA, April 20 (Reuters) - The Libyan government's reported use of cluster munitions and heavy weapons in Misrata has caused substantial civilian casualties and may amount to crimes under international law, the United Nations said on Wednesday.

U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay called for a halt to the siege of Misrata and condemned the attacks, including a cluster bomb said to have exploded last week several hundred metres from the hospital in the west Libyan city.

...

Pillay, a former U.N. war crimes judge, said pro-government forces besieging Misrata, including commanders, could be held criminally liable for their orders and acts. The International Criminal Court (ICC) was already investigating possible crimes.

ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo has said Libyan authorities decided they were ready to kill unarmed protesters opposed to Gaddafi's 41-year rule even before unrest spread from Tunisia and Egypt. He has raised concern about abductions, torture and killings.

...

Complete...
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73J1FO20110420?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
51. k&r
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
52. LPC #Tripoli: People are starting to fight back against Gaddafi security forces.
LPC #Tripoli: People are starting to fight back against #Gaddafi security forces. #Libya #Feb17
about 16 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336145-lpc-tripoli-people-are-starting-to-fight-back-against-gaddafi-security-forces-libya-feb17
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
53. LPC #Tripoli: Presence of security forces in city in last 2 days much less than previous days.
LPC #Tripoli: Presence of security forces in city in last 2 days much less than previous days.
about 16 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336147-lpc-tripoli-presence-of-security-forces-in-city-in-last-2-days-much-less-than-previous-days-libya-feb17
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
54. LPC from #Tripoli speaks about anti #Gaddafi demonstrations held in the capital this month.
LPC from #Tripoli speaks about anti #Gaddafi demonstrations held in the capital this month.
about 15 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336175-lpc-from-tripoli-speaks-about-anti-gaddafi-demonstrations-held-in-the-capital-this-month-libya-feb17

These are small demonstrations. Nonetheless, by all reports anyone caught demonstrating faces imprisonment, at least.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. LPC #Yefren [ENGLISH] Events from this morning, Gaddafi forces launched attack
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 11:59 AM by Iterate
LPC #Yefren Events from this morning, Gaddafi forces launched attack
8 minutes ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336667-lpc-yefren-english-events-from-this-morning-gaddafi-forces-launched-attack-libya-feb17

Fresh news, but I wish I could transcribe fast enough.

ETA: From feb17voices. I don't think I've been attributing these well enough, but all of them are from feb17voices on audioboo.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
57. War Photographer Tim Hetherington(Restrepo) Killed in Libya Attack
War Photographer Tim Hetherington Killed in Libya Attack
Hetherington Witnessed Medal of Honor Recipient Sal Giunta's Bravery, Shot Footage for 'Restrepo'
By DEVIN DWYER
April 20, 2011

Award-winning war photographer Tim Hetherington and Getty photographer Chris Hondros were killed in Misrata, Libya, today in a mortar attack, colleagues told ABC News.

Hetherington, one of the best known photojournalists, produced powerful pieces for ABC News' "Nightline" from the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, and for the documentary "Restrepo," which won an award at the Sundance film festival last year.

Three other journalists were wounded in the same attack, including Andre Leon and Michael Brown. The identity of the fifth reporter has not yet been confirmed.

"Tim was one of the bravest photographers and filmmakers I have ever met," said ABC News' James Goldston, who worked closely with Hetherington as executive producer of "Nightline."

Continue:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/war-photographer-tim-hetherington-killed-libya-attack/story?id=13418813
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. ABC News correction: Hondros condition critical/unknown
Award-winning war photographer Tim Hetherington was reportedly killed in today in a mortar attack on the besieged Libyan city of Misrata, colleagues told ABC News.

It was unclear whether a second photographer Chris Hondros also died in the attack.

News of the death first surfaced on Twitter and on the Facebook page of Andre Liohn, a French photographer who was apparently with Hetherington and Hondros at a Libyan hospital.

Hetherington, one of the best known photojournalists and winner of the prestigious Dupont Award, produced powerful pieces for ABC News' "Nightline" from the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, and directed the documentary "Restrepo," which won an award at the Sundance film festival last year.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/war-photographer-tim-hetherington-caught-libya-attack/story?id=13418813
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
89. CNN reporting sources say journalists were hit by RPG, not mortar fire
Frederik Pleitgen reported live from Tripoli that his sources in Misrata tell him ilt was a rocket-propelled grenade, not mortar fire, that hit the journalists.

Of the 3 who survived, 2 are critical, 1 slightly injured. They remain in a medical clinic in Misrata.





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #57
93. Colleague of Hetherington, doctor who treated him recall those moments (Video--0:51)
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
58. Tim Hetherington biography

Tim Hetherington was born in Liverpool, UK. He studied literature at Oxford University and later returned to college to study photojournalism. He lives in New York and is a contributing photographer for Vanity Fair magazine.

His interest lies in creating diverse forms of visual communication and his work has ranged from multi-screen installations, to fly-poster exhibitions, to handheld device downloads. Known for his long-term documentary work, Tim lived and worked in West Africa for eight years and has reported on social and political issues worldwide.

His project Healing Sport was published by Thames and Hudson as part of group project Tales of a Globalizing World (Thames & Hudson 2003). Long Story Bit By Bit:Liberia Retold (Umbrage Editions 2009) narrates recent Liberian history by drawing on images and interviews made over a five year period. A new book, Infidel (Chris Boot Ltd 2010), about a group of US soldiers in Afghanistan, continues the examination of young men and conflict.

As a film maker, he has worked as both a cameraman and director/producer. He was a cameraman on Liberia: an Uncivil War (2004) and The Devil Came on Horseback (2007), and his directorial debut film Restrepo about a platoon of soldiers in Afghanistan, was awarded the Grand Jury Prize at the 2010 Sundance Film Festival. His most recent film Diary is a highly personal experimental short currently playing at film festivals.

He is the recipient of numerous awards including a Fellowship from the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts (2000-4), a Hasselblad Foundation grant (2002), four World Press Photo prizes including the World Press Photo of the Year 2007, the Rory Peck Award for Features (2008), and an Alfred I. duPont award (2009).

http://www.timhetherington.com/mentalpicture/page/224
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. Photo:
Al Jazeera posted this photo (without a photo credit):








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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
84. Vancouver Sun Correction
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 05:14 PM by Iterate
Acclaimed photojournalist Tim Hetherington killed in Libya; others wounded

American photojournalists Tim Hetherington was killed Wednesday in Libya, where he was covering the ongoing conflict.

The news was first reported by photographer Andre Liohn, as he posted and updated the news on Facebook from the hospital where he, Hetherington and Chris Hondros, were brought after suffering injuries while covering the fighting in Misrata.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Acclaimed+photojournalist+Hetherington+killed+Libya+others+wounded/4648757/story.html#ixzz1K6LXZJBi

Good, thanks mods!
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
61. Chris Hondros
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 01:10 PM by Iterate
10 Question Interview - Chris Hondros of Getty Images
03/01/2011

Twenty years ago, I was in the Eddie Adams Workshop, on the same team as quietly confident Chris Hondros. Even back then, in the middle of rural New York, he was the kind of photographer who came back with dramatic photos from the field. I still remember the sense of awe as I saw one of his pictures - a quiet and compelling image of a veterinarian, presiding over a horse on its deathbed. Fast forward decades later, the Getty Images photojournalist is still coming back with dramatic images. He has become an accomplished war photographer and recipient of the prestigious Robert Capa Gold Medal. His images consistently appear on the front pages of newspapers around the world, making him one of the foremost visual storytellers of our time. He recently returned to the U.S. after covering the Egyptian revolution, a watershed moment in the Middle East. I caught up with him and he agreed to a brief "10 Questions" interview format about his experience:


1. When did you first get to Cairo and when you did, did you have a sense based on any previous experience how far things might go this time?

I arrived Saturday morning after the protests first began on Tuesday. As I pulled up to my hotel off of Tahrir Square, the main political party headquaters, a hulking, Communist-looking monolith, was on fire. That indicated to me that things were pretty serious.

Continue...
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/assignment-chicago/2011/03/10-questions-with-chris-hondros-of-getty-images.html

Audio interview:
Egypt after the Uprising by Amber Nimocks, Frank Stasio, and Susan Davis NPR WUNC
Wednesday, February 16 2011

Last week's toppling of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak has drawn the attentions of the world to the unrest in the Middle East. As we wonder what will happen in the wake of the 30-year Mubarak regime, host Frank Stasio talks with experts, expatriates and observers about the possibilities. His guests include Getty Images photographer Chris Hondros, who just returned from assignment in Cairo; Stephanie Najjar, a student at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill whose extended family lives in Cairo; Nadia Yaqub, associate professor of Arabic language and culture at UNC-Chapel Hill; Carl Ernst, the William R. Kenan, Jr. Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the UNC-Chapel Hill, and Director of the Carolina Center for the Study of the Middle East and Muslim Civilizations; and Mark Crescenzi, associate professor of political science at UNC-Chapel Hill.

http://wunc.org/tsot/archive/Egypt_After_The_Uprising.mp3/view?searchterm=Hondros

ETA:
His self-deprecating sense of humor.

A recent tweet:
"So, I photographed a doomed Egyptian camel named "Micheal Jackson": http://bit.ly/e1VUTA" 7 Feb via web
http://twitter.com/#!/ChrisHondros

He's referring to this photo:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3395570/-Rioters-in-Cairo-battered-my-hero-camel-to-death.html
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. There is a NYT article saying that Chris is seriously injured.
"The wounds to two of the photographers — Chris Hondros and Guy Martin — were grave, according to a colleague at the triage center where they were being treated Wednesday night. Their prospects for survival were not immediately clear.

Mr. Hondros, an American working for the Getty photo agency, suffered a severe brain injury and was in extremely critical condition, according to a colleague who was with at the triage center. He had been revived and was clinging to life in the evening, the colleague said. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/africa/21photographers.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes

Difficult to know exactly what is correct.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Checking...and I'm about out of edit time
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 01:56 PM by Iterate
I've been watching this for some time and had waited until there was a good source.

But now all I can say is that most are saying two were killed, but some of the more reliable ones like BBC and NYT (by By C.J. CHIVERS) are saying it's just one. Those reports are older though. So all I can say before the edit time is up, is that not all sources have confirmed that both have died.

Update:
The vancouver Sun (the one I cited) has edited their article.

Fellow photographer Chris Hondros remains in critical condition from his injuries. Hondos is an acclaimed war photographer - a finalist for the Pulizer Prize, and a National Magazine Award winner. In 2007, he was named a "Hero of Photography" by American Photo magazine for his work covering the war in Iraq.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Acclaimed+photojournalist+Hetherington+killed+Libya+others+wounded/4648757/story.html#ixzz1K5eWvEss

BBC has a correction as well.

Wow, it's rippling through all of the earlier sources. At one point there were several hundred all saying the same thing.

Even MSNBC has corrected itself.

No one even mentions the earlier report. It's like it didn't happen and no one was ever wrong.

Fuck it, I'll say it. I was wrong when I posted the first time.

+++ and thank you so much for pointing it out +++

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Thanks for your great effort!
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
92. BREAKING, CNN: Chris Hondros has died of his injuries
Confirmed by Getty.






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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. Arab Dictators' Children: The Mixed Fortunes Of Gaddafi And Mubarak's Kids
For 35-year-old Aisha, who's been branded North Africa's "Claudia Schiffer" due to her glamorous image, it was the most overtly political gesture to date. (Previously, she has grabbed headlines over an alleged affair with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi).

She's not the only known member of the Gaddafi family carrying her father's legacy. As Time reports, brother Saif, 40, is known as a shrewd operator and canny businessman, while 39-year-old Saadi enjoyed a brief Italian soccer career. Little is known about Khamis, said to have died in a kamikaze attack, or Milad, a nephew whom Gaddafi adopted.

But clearly they're all currently faring better than Hosni Mubarak's sons, currently detained and awaiting interrogation.

View known details of Gaddafi and Mubarak's children here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/16/arab-dictators-children-t_n_849969.html#s265090&title=Gamal_and_Alaa
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
66. Egyptian student Abdel Khalek El-Sayed freed in Libya
CAIRO: Egyptian student and paramedic Abdel Khalek El-Sayed was freed in Libya on Monday after being detained by Moammar Qaddafi’s forces in February in Ras Lanuf.

"Abdel Khalek arrived safely to the Egyptian embassy in Tripoli and will be escorted to the Tunisian border tomorrow to get on the first plane back to Egypt," said Adel Abdel Ghaffar, Abdel Khalek’s friend who went with him to Libya as paramedics.

"Both of us went to Libya with aid convoys to help the people there, we both went to Benghazi and then he decided to go to Ras Lanuf, and we haven’t heard from him since," he said.

Abdel Khalek's family was surprised to watch a video aired on Libyan state TV showing Abdel Khalek, dressed in a military fatigue, confessing that he came to Libya in a convoy delivering arms to Libyan rebels and is fighting with them in Ras Lanuf and other Libyan cities, and that he belonged to Al-Qaeda.

Abdel Khalek's father said in an interview with Al-Akhbar newspaper that his son was forced to make these statements, confirming that his son has no relationship with Al-Qaeda and that he is not affiliated with any political or military groups.

http://thedailynewsegypt.com/egypt/egyptian-student-abdel-khalek-el-sayed-freed-in-libya.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_hamza/sets/72157626414071013/show/
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
67. Prince: Put more pressure on Gaddafi
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 02:15 PM by tabatha
20. April 2011 20:30 Abroad

Libya's exiled crown prince, whose family was removed from the throne of Muammar Gaddafi for 42 years ago, urged the international community to firmer against the Libyan dictator.

Crown Prince Muhammad al-Senussi want the West both to tighten their financial sanctions against Gaddafi and intensify military action against his regime.

- I would like to thank the UN and NATO for their protection of civilians, said the 48-year-old Crown Prince during a visit to European Parliament on Wednesday.

He stressed that Gaddafi "understands only one language, and it is the language of force".

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Udland/2011/04/20/201546.htm
(translated from Danish)
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thousands of Libyans flee fighting in west into Tunisia
DEHIBA, Tunisia, April 19 (UNHCR) – A growing number of Libyan refugees have been arriving in Tunisia from Libya's Western Mountains regions, the UN refugee agency reported on Tuesday.

"This past weekend, some 6,000 Libyan nationals arrived in the Dehiba area of southern Tunisia," UNHCR spokesman Andrej Mahecic told journalists in Geneva. "Overall, we estimate that 10,000 Libyans have crossed into this area over the past 10 days," he added. The majority are ethnic Berbers.

Most of the arrivals are families coming from the town of Nalut, some 50 kilometres from the Tunisian border. "They told our staff that the Western Mountains area has been effectively under siege by government forces for a month and that the pressure on the civilian population has been increasing daily," Mahecic said.

Many of the new arrivals said they fled their homes fearing the fighting and shelling, which has intensified significantly over the weekend. Reportedly, the conflict was moving closer to Nalut. From the Dehiba area, pillars of black smoke could be seen and loud explosions heard inside Libya on Monday.



http://www.unhcr.org/4dad88619.html
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
95. That looks like history.
Let's hope it's very temporary.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
70. An impromptu boatlift brings aid and guns to besieged Libyan city, rescues refugees
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 02:31 PM by tabatha
By Ben Hubbard, The Associated Press – 5 hours ago

This Greek passenger ferry streamed toward the besieged Libyan port city of Misrata on Wednesday, its mission to deliver 500 tons of food and medical supplies and spirit away 1,000 people fleeing weeks of heavy shelling by forces loyal to ruler Moammar Gadhafi.

The ferry is part of a flotilla of ships, fishing trawlers and tug boats that have become the lifeline for the last significant rebel-held city in western Libya as it tries to hold out against a crippling siege that has dragged on for more than 50 days, devastating the city of 300,000.

They brave sailing into a port that is under frequent shelling — some of the smaller vessels have been fired on with rockets or chased by government warships.

The flotilla, motoring back and forth across Libya's Gulf of Sirte between Misrata and the rebel capital Benghazi in the east, not only keeps residents alive. It also keeps them fighting, bringing weapons and ammunition to Misrata's defenders.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iva5FaGV60xy8nSodGmlrYJ25HAg?docId=6619374
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
73. Libya: Sarkozy sending military advisers and promised more strikes
A small number of military advisers" will be sent to Libya. The words are Nicolas Sarkozy , who has finally decided to send officers to help the French National Transitional Council of Libya (CNT), in Paris after receiving the rebel leader, Moustapha Abdeljalil. No change in strategy, however, insisted the president, for whom the shipment was "absolutely nothing to do with sending troops" on the ground.

Without using the term "advisers" Baroin had already explained earlier in the day that "a small number of liaison officers" would make "a liaison mission to organize the protection of civilian populations." Italy has also announced Wednesday that sending ten military instructors from the CNT, as Britain Tuesday.

No ground troops

Like Alain Juppe Tuesday , Gerard Longuet also ruled out sending ground troops to Libya to lend support to the insurgents against the forces of Colonel Gaddafi. To the question "the sending of ground troops is excluded?" Raised by the press after the Council of Ministers, the Defence Minister said: "Yes." This is not the resolution 1973 and we are working under this resolution, "he said. The sending of ground troops is "a real issue that deserves an international debate," he added. When asked if the CNT was not going to be disappointed, Gerard Longuet said: "You can not please everyone all the time."

http://www.leparisien.fr/intervention-libye/libye-sarkozy-envoie-des-conseillers-militaires-et-promet-plus-de-frappes-20-04-2011-1415749.php
(translated from French)





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
74. Images that moved across the wire today from Hondros.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
75. LPC #Misrata explains circumstances of strike that killed foreign journalists, saddened by deaths.
LPC #Misrata explains circumstances of strike that killed foreign journalists, saddened by deaths. #Libya
12 minutes ago

From feb17voices, one of the most reliable voices on the internet:

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336784-lpc-misrata-explains-circumstances-of-strike-that-killed-foreign-journalists-saddened-by-deaths-libya

The audio on this one is not terribly clear, but clear enough.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
76. Libya: Col Gaddafi 'has spent £2.1m on mercenaries'
Details of a deal to recruit 450 fighters from the disputed Western Sahara region have been passed to Nato officials by a former Gaddafi loyalist who was involved in the negotiations before defecting to the rebels.

According to the defector, who has not been named, the mercenaries are being paid $10,000 each to fight for Col Gaddafi for two months. The deal with the mercenaries was arranged last month after serious anti-government protests threatened to overthrow the regime.

The majority of the fighters are reported to be members of the Sahrawi tribe who are based in the Western Sahara, and have been fighting a war of independence against Morocco as members of the Polisario Front.

Col Gaddafi's officials have also recruited scores of fighters from rebel movements in Niger and Mali that have close links with the Gaddafi regime.

In the past Nato officers have received reports that Col Gaddafi has relied heavily on foreign mercenaries to defend his regime, but the documents produced by recent defectors show he is still actively looking to recruit more fighters.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8464254/Libya-Col-Gaddafi-has-spent-2.1m-on-mercenaries.html
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
77. 3 Recordings from LPC in Tripoli: Arrests, life, and resisting the regime
From feb17voices, audioboo.

LPC #Tripoli explains covert ways people are demonstrating against regime. #Libya #Feb17
about 2 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336728-lpc-tripoli-explains-covert-ways-people-are-demonstrating-against-regime-libya-feb17

LPC #Tripoli: #Gaddafi forces arrested approx. 50 ppl from #Tajoura after SheikhGheriany speech#Libya #Feb17
about 2 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336745-lpc-tripoli-gaddafi-forces-arrested-approx-50-ppl-from-tajoura-after-sheikhgheriany-speech-libya-feb17

LPC #Tripoli: Explains how schools and businesses are open by force, intimidation.

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336753-lpc-tripoli-explains-how-schools-and-businesses-are-open-by-force-intimidation-libya-feb17

and I think I'll add this tweet:

@Elleebi Libyano Tripoliano
#Tripoli: 30 dogs wrapped in Gaddafi's green flag released in Fashloom district. G forces chasing and shooting them 19 Apr. via web


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
78. Libya rebels to get $25m of US military equipment under Pentagon proposal

Source: The Guardian





Gaddafi minister says move to supply 'non-lethal' items such as vehicles, radios and medicines will prolong conflict


Harriet Sherwood in Tripoli
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 20 April 2011 20.46 BST



The US plans to send $25m worth of non-lethal equipment to the rebel opposition in eastern Libya, in a move likely to further entangle the west in the two-month-old civil war.

The proposal to send surplus Pentagon equipment, including vehicles, medical supplies, protective vests, binoculars and radios, follows Italy's decision to join Britain and France in sending military advisers to the Libyan opposition and a French pledge to intensify air strikes.

...


The US plan, which must be approved by President Barack Obama, is to send "non-lethal assistance" to the Transitional National Council in Benghazi, the de facto opposition government which has not been recognised by Washington. The dispatch of the surplus US stock does not need approval from Congress.

As Nato air strikes were reported to have hit Libyan government targets near Ajdabiya in the east, and south of Tripoli in the west, the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, promised to escalate military action to protect civilians. He told opposition leader Mustafa Abdel-Jalil: "We will intensify the strikes. We will help you."

...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/20/libya-rebels-us-military-equipment-non-lethal








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
79. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 11 PM WEDNESDAY, APRIL 20
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
80. Obama backs allies sending military aides to Libya


(AFP) – 4 hours ago

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama supports the decision by allies to send military advisers to aid Libyan rebels but has no plans to put US "boots on the ground," his spokesman said Wednesday.

...


White House spokesman Jay Carney said Obama approved of France's decision to send military advisers into insurgent-held eastern Libya, with Britain and Italy set to follow suit.

"The president obviously was aware of this decision and supports it, and hopes and believes it will help the opposition," Carney told reporters aboard Air Force One en route to California.

"But it does not at all change the president's policy of no boots on the ground for American troops."


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jt8x3GCnisd8aoZlblE7GWdepDrg?docId=CNG.f29c64cfcdf5a43d9afea834b8dcadc3.d1







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
81. War in Libya Could Drag On, Military Analysts Say

Source: New York Times




By STEVEN ERLANGER

Published: April 20, 2011


PARIS — France and Italy said on Wednesday that they would join Britain in sending some liaison officers to support the rebel army in Libya, in what military analysts said was a sign that there will be no quick and easy end to the war in Libya.

The dispatching of the liaison officers — probably fewer than 40 of them, and carefully not designated as military trainers — is a sign also, they said, that only a combination of military pressure from the sky, economic pressure on the regime and a better-organized and coordinated rebel force will finally convince Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi that he has no option but to quit.

“Some countries thought the Libya operation could be over quickly,” said a senior NATO ambassador. “But no military commander thinks so.

...


New tactics by the Qaddafi forces of mixing with civilian populations, camouflaging weapons and driving pickup trucks instead of military vehicles have made it hard for NATO pilots to find targets. At the same time, loyalist artillery and tanks have hammered the rebel-held city of Misurata, reportedly with illegal cluster bombs, making a mockery of NATO’s central mission of protecting civilians.

...


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/world/africa/21nato.html








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
83. Libyan Prince: I’m Ready to Be King
(From a WSJ blog offering "Insight and analysis from The Wall Street Journal and Dow Jones team in Brussels.)




April 20, 2011, 9:57 AM ET
By John W. Miller

Mohammed El Senussi, the exiled crown prince of Libya, made an appearance at the European Parliament in Brussels on Wednesday morning, on invitation of some British conservatives. On a hot April day during the Easter break, the packed briefing room felt like a crowded theater compared to the conspicuously empty halls of Parliament.

El Senussi, 48, looked young, fit and trim, like the prosperous Londoner he’s been since his family went from house arrest into exile in 1988. Since then, he has helped lead opposition events and is now eager, he said, to play a role in rebuilding his country, no matter what form it takes.

Whether people want a constitutional monarchy or a republic, I will do my best,” he told the audience of parliamentarians, staff and journalists. In any case, he said, he would help the opposition organize “free and fair elections, it is my task to serve the people.”

In other words, if they ask him to be king, he would say yes. Under a constitution drafted in 1951 and revised in 1963, the last King of Libya was El Senussi’s great uncle Idris al-Mahdi al-Senussi. Col. Moammar Gadhafi overthrew him in 1969. El Senussi has been in touch with the Transitional National Council, he said. He not yet been formally asked to lead Libya as king.

...


http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2011/04/20/libyan-prince-im-ready-to-be-king/







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
86. From the archive: Gaddafi and the Guardian

A look at how the Guardian has reported on Gaddafi's regime since he came to power in 1969.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/apr/07/from-the-archive-gaddafi-and-the-guardian


An interesting look at the history of Gaddai's reign through the Guardian's coverage over the decades.






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
87. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:10 AM THURSDAY, APRIL 21
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
88. BREAKING, CNN: NATO will escalate attacks in next few days, warns civilians
A top NATO general has told CNN that it has issued a warning to civilians in Libya to avoid military facilities because it will be stepping up airstrikes on Gaddafi's forces during the next few days.





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
90. Statement of White House Press Secretary on journalists killed/wounded in Misrata:


We were saddened to learn of the death of film director and photographer Tim Hetherington while working in Misrata, and we are deeply concerned about the well being of other journalists who were wounded alongside him. Journalists across the globe risk their lives each day to keep us informed, demand accountability from world leaders, and give a voice to those who would not otherwise be heard. The Libyan government and all governments across the world must take steps to protect journalists doing this vital work. The United States will work to do everything possible to assist those who were injured in getting the care they need. Our thoughts are with these brave journalists and their loved ones.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/20/statement-press-secretary-journalists-killed-or-wounded-libya







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
91. BREAKING, CNN: Chris Hondros has died of his injuries
Confirmed by Getty.






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
94. Links to the work of Tim Hetherington and Chris Hondros:



Slideshow: 'A long way from home'

Oscar nominated photojournalist Tim Hetherington was killed in the war-torn Libyan city of Misrata on Wednesday, April 20, 2011. In 2009, Hetherington worked with CNN.com to produce this audio slideshow with photos he shot during his coverage of the the war in Afghanistan.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2011/04/world/slideshow.hetherington/?hpt=T1


More of Tim Hetherington's work from Helmand, Afghanistan:

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2011/04/world/hires.tim.hetherington/index.html






Work from Chris Hondros’s career

The photographer died Wednesday after being wounded while reporting in Libya. Here is a collection of his work from Liberia to Libya and Afghanistan to Egypt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chris-hondros/2011/04/20/AFlxDODE_gallery.html



R.I.P. :patriot:






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
96. Obama and Libya War: Criticism Grows in Poll

Source: ABC News





Nearly 50 Percent of Americans Disapprove of How President Obama is Handling War in Libya

Analysis by GARY LANGER
April 20, 2011


Disapproval of Barack Obama's handling of the situation in Libya has grown sharply in the past month, with the president facing criticism from Americans who oppose U.S. military involvement – but also from some of those who say the mission's aim is too limited.


Fifty-six percent support the U.S. military involvement overall, but many fewer, 42 percent, approve of Obama's handling of the situation. While his approval has held nearly steady, disapproval has grown by 15 points in the past month, with fewer undecided.


The disconnect relates to the mission; the poll, produced for ABC News by Langer Research Associates, finds that among Americans who support U.S. military participation, most say it should be aimed at ousting Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, not just protecting civilians.


In effect, the poll divides Americans into three groups:


• Forty percent of Americans oppose U.S. military participation; in this group, just 27 percent approve of Obama's handling of the situation, while 65 percent disapprove.

• An additional 32 percent support U.S. involvement, but say the aim should be to remove Gadhafi from power, not only to protect civilians. Obama gets a higher approval rating for handling Libya in this group, but hardly a robust one – 49 percent.

• The third and smallest group, 22 percent, supports the current policy – military involvement limited to protecting civilians. In this group Obama's approval rating for handling the situation grows to 61 percent.

...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-libya-war-criticism-grows-abc-news-poll/story?id=13420329








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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
97. Libya: The Resource Curse Strikes Again
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x289476

The civil war in Libya, and the consequent spike in world oil prices, has cast a bright light on three important truths about global energy: first, Europe and the United States are increasingly dependent on oil imports from unstable regions; second, in many oil-rich countries, corruption and mismanagement of petroleum revenues can leave the population impoverished, as is so evident in the pictures from Libya; and third, oil revenues can embolden despots and lead to instability, which directly affects the national interests and economic growth of oil importing countries.

In recent years poor, unstable countries have become a major source of minerals and energy for the developed and developing worlds alike. Sub-Saharan African oil exports, for instance, have grown by 40 percent since 2000, and Europe now gets more than 20 percent of its imported oil from Africa. The U.S. imports more oil from Africa than it does from the entire Persian Gulf.

This has spurred strong economic growth in some developing nations, but often the growth has been uneven, with many resource-rich countries succumbing to corruption and political instability. Too often, oil money intended for a nation's poor ends up lining the pockets of the rich or is squandered on showcase projects instead of productive investments.

This phenomenon, known as the "resource curse," affects the consuming as well as producing countries. It exacerbates poverty which can be a seedbed for terrorism. It empowers autocrats and dictators like Gaddafi, and, as we are painfully experiencing now, it can roil world petroleum markets. Increasingly, the economic and energy security of Europe and the United States is tied to stability and sustainable growth in developing regions.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
98. Civilians killed in Misurata fighting
Edited on Wed Apr-20-11 07:10 PM by pinboy3niner
Source: Al Jazeera





Deaths reported in beseiged Libyan city as US offers "non-lethal" aid to rebels fighting Gaddafi forces.


Last Modified: 20 Apr 2011 22:30



At least five civilians have been killed in a day of fierce clashes between pro-government troops and rebel forces in the western city of Misurata.

...


"Fierce fighting is taking place now on the Nakl el-Thequeel road which leads to the port. Gaddafi forces have been trying to control this road to isolate the city," Abdelsalam, a rebel spokesman, said.


"NATO has been inefficient in Misurata. NATO has completely failed to change things on the ground."



He said "violent fighting" had also erupted on Tripoli Street, a main thoroughfare and another key battleground.

"I'm hearing explosions now. A large number of snipers are positioned there," Abdelsalam said. "Civilians cannot come out for fear of being shot dead."

...


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/04/20114202007911902.html








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
99. Airstrikes hit Tripoli a few minutes ago--CNN nt




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
100. "That's pretty much the worst nightmare that can happen to you" (being wounded in Misrata)
CNN's Frederik Pleitgen (who has also reported from Misrata), in a live report from Tripoli on the journalists killed and wounded Wednesday:


"That's pretty much the worst nightmare that can happen to you, to get wounded in a place like Misrata."







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
101. Anderson Cooper tweet on loss of a friend, Tim Hetherington, in Libya

andersoncooper

a friend and great photographer Tim Hetherington has been killed in Libya. The news is gutting. He was such a wonderful guy







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
102. Things are getting worse in mountains bc communications are hard. #Libya

LibyaAlHurraTV Communications in #Nalut, #Nafoosa: Land Lines are not working. Things are getting worse in mountains bc communications are hard. #Libya
19 minutes ago






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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
103. LPC #Zintan: still fighting #Gaddafi troops at Tunisian border. "Biggest fight until now
From feb17voices, the reliable new source

LPC #Zintan: still fighting #Gaddafi troops at Tunisian border. "Biggest fight until now" #Libya #Feb17
about 3 hours ago

http://audioboo.fm/boos/336879-lpc-zintan-still-fighting-gaddafi-troops-at-tunisian-border-biggest-fight-until-now-libya-feb17

I never finish one of the clips from this area without thinking about how calm and sure they seem about their situation.


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
104. Libya: UN warns of blurring aid and military operations--BBC



20 April 2011 Last updated at 20:39 ET

...

Speaking at the UN in New York after a trip to Libya, she said the Libyan authorities had agreed to secure aid workers in conflict zones and ensure they got through government roadblocks.


But without agreement on a ceasefire, access to places such as Misrata would be determined by the intensity of the fighting, she said.


If the security situation became impossible, Ms Amos said, then the UN would call on the EU for military support for its aid deliveries.

...


Ms Pillay said there were reports of a cluster bomb exploding "just a few hundred metres from Misrata hospital, and other reports suggest at least two medical clinics have been hit by mortars or sniper fire".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13152392







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
105. Can NATO save Misrata?

Source: The Economist





It is vital for Muammar Qaddafi’s foes that they hold on to Misrata


Apr 20th 2011 | from the print edition


THE agonies of Misrata, the western rebel-held city that has withstood a bloody siege by Muammar Qaddafi’s forces for nearly two months, have exposed the dilemmas that are reducing the effectiveness of NATO’s air campaign. As efforts were stepped up to evacuate by sea the badly wounded and the trapped migrant workers desperate to escape, rebel commanders in Misrata warned the outside world via Skype that unless NATO did more to help, the town could fall within days. One, calling himself only Muhammad, said rebel fighters and civilians were “like rats in a cage”, with scores of people dying. He claimed that there had been no air attacks for several days on Colonel Qaddafi’s men, who are surrounding Misrata on three sides: “We are being hit by mortars, Grads, Katyushas, you name it—and there is no action (from NATO).”


Misrata is receiving some medical supplies from the sea (and also weapons coming from Benghazi and possibly Qatar), but with food and water running low and sheer exhaustion setting in, it may not be able to hold out much longer. On April 18th the UN reached an agreement with the Libyan government in Tripoli to establish a “humanitarian presence” in the country that would let aid workers operate in areas controlled by the government, but it is unclear whether this will help Misrata.


Musa Ibrahim, a Libyan-government spokesman, said that the agreement with the UN was to provide “safe passage for people to leave Misrata, to provide aid, food and medicine.” But the implication was that this would happen only after loyalist forces had regained control of the city. Meanwhile, the European Union has drawn up plans to deploy a small military contingent to get help into Misrata, but the UN is nervous about the proposal, and NATO says it does not want to confuse its mission by getting involved other than by ensuring safe passage for ships and aircraft carrying humanitarian supplies.

...


NATO’s problem is that it currently lacks both the means and the mandate to do much to help Misrata. Loyalist snipers in buildings across the city cannot be taken out from the air without killing civilians nearby. It is tricky even to go after the mortars (some of which are firing cluster munitions, according to the New York-based Human Rights Watch) and the Grad rockets being fired from outside the town. Compared with a tank or heavy artillery, they represent a tiny and easily hidden target. Yet a single Grad multiple launcher can fire a salvo of 40 (highly inaccurate) rockets.

...


http://www.economist.com/node/18586978?story_id=18586978&fsrc=rss








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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:49 PM
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106. UAE: More strikes on Libya

Source: Al Arabiya




Wednesday, 20 April 2011

By SARA GHASMILEE AND ABEER TAYEL
Al Arabiya with Agencies


The United Arab Emirates said late Wednesday that Muammar Qaddafi was not interested in a diplomatic solution to the Libyan crisis, and it urged that there be more military strikes against his forces.


The unexpectedly tough call for increased strikes against Libya came on a day that NATO and the Allies escalated their bombing of Libya’s telecommunications and broadcasting infrastructure. The UAE’s call also seemed to suggest that the six Gulf States—who constitute an influential group within the 22-member Arab League—have reinforced their resolve to bring down the Qaddafi regime.


Because the Gulf States have traditionally been close to the United States and to the West, the UAE’s statement was interpreted by some diplomatic observers as an acknowledgment of the West’s position that Mr. Qaddafi’s continued leadership was untenable, and that the Libyan conflict, with its humanitarian tragedy, needed to be ended as soon as possible.

...


http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/04/20/146073.html








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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 08:59 PM
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107. Day 63 here:
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