Fuck it. They won, they won. We lost, they won.

[Taverner]

It's over

It's fucking hopeless

The economy is going to crash again, the US dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on, and we will all be soon out of work, unless we're willing to work for $3 an hour, no breaks and lots of unpaid overtime.

They won. The rat bastards cheated and they won.

We're fucked.

Honestly, I really do think Obama is doing all he can. But in the end he has to protect himself and his family. And in the end, we'll all be fearing for our lives. He knows what he can do, and can't. And I really don't blame him for not wanting to be killed along with his family.

"Shock Doctrine" is a good book that will give you an idea of what to expect. Hell, expect the very air you breathe to have a price tag. And you better smile when you're paying your oxygen bill.

It's depressing, and the idiot "Hoorah USA" types will be spinning because they never saw it coming.

They're gonna get your Social Security, and they are going to get your Medicare. If you invested in a pension or 401K they're going to get that too. Money is not for you, not for me. It's for them, and the sooner we learn that the better.

Value your friends and family. We will all be spending a lot more time with them soon.

[white_wolf]

1. "They" had better be careful.

You can only push people so far, before revolution breaks out. Ask the King Louis XVI or Tsar Nicholas II

[Taverner]

2. They've got security, motion detection cameras and lots of guns

I'm sure we'll be able to get a few folks to scale the fence without being shot, but in the end they take off from their helipad on the roof.

We get the shit they left. And it will be shit.

[white_wolf]

4. Was the situation in either of the countries I referenced

really any better? Things might seem worse, now because of the advance in technology, but for the time were they really any less entrenched?

[Paradoxical]

28. I have guns. As do many other people on our side.

[WinkyDink]

35. You have sticks and stones in comparison.

[Paradoxical]

55. Same caliber as the military issued M16. Several 30 round magazines.

9 mm side-arm.

All I need is ammunition.

A little more than sticks and stones.

[Occulus]

67. Comparatively speaking, you have less than sticks and stones.

Compratively speaking, what you just listed are the names that will never hurt them.

[WinkyDink]

34. And tanks. And drones. And Armed Forces plus Blackwater, who pointed machine-guns at Katrina victims

[TheKentuckian]

6. That is what it is probably going to take. The real government is not up for election.

[Initech]

12. If they want it I say bring it.

[white_wolf]

13. It may be necessarry, but I wouldn't be too eager.

The army will likely defend them. I don't trust the high ranking officers, they are elites themselves.

[Taverner]

14. They will slaughter, irradiate or toxify the planet to keep what they have going on

Vietnam was a microcosm of this. The US Embassy in Saigon staff knew they had an awesome thing going on, and by proxy, the US Military was willing to use agent orange, napalm, democide, or whatever to let them keep their spots.

Things have changed. It's the Corporations who are the Saigon Embassy staff, and its still the US Military keeping their ability to be there.

[fascisthunter]

56. unlike the Egyptian Military I Think you may be Right

look what the upper ranks are doing now as we type!

[midnight]

3. K&R Let's hope more folks wake up...

[Trajan]

5. Look .. It cant happan that way ....

You cant have :

1) extremely low pay ... and
2) High prices ...

This is a degenerative system that can only wind down .... Something has to give ....

The wannabe rich cannot get there if we are pauperized .... '

THAT is already happening .... The path to wealth through the much vaunted 'small business' is pretty much closed now ...

Yeah .. Lots of those bad things appear to be on the horizon, and it is pretty fucked up ...

BUT they cannot feed off the starving .... Who have nothing of substance to sink their teeth into ...

[Ready4Change]

18. We'd be in better shape if it was an organized conspiracy.

An organized conspiracy would see things your way. They'd know they can't live a life of luxury in a land of absolute destitution. They'd still impoverish the land, but they'd monitor things and try to keep resentment below the boiling point.

However, what is happening is due to a mob of super rich (and getting richer) individual profit seekers. As the demotivational poster says: 'None of us is as dumb as ALL of us.' A mob of individuals, all competing with each other for limited resources, will devour those resources utterly, unless something intervenes. Peaceful intervention, now that the super rich own our government and our news media, which would otherwise have served such a purpose, is no longer likely.

[Taverner]

23. Yes there is no conspiracy - - but people are greedy

All the reason Capitalism has to end

Obama knows this, but shit - he can't stop capitalism from being capitalism

And if he tried, someone, probably a very greedy someone, would threaten he and his family

It's not a conspiracy

It's human nature

[Marie Marie]

7. Spot on. And our side (if there is such a thing) continues to lob

Whiffle Balls at their AK-47's. As far as The People turning things around - well, I'm afraid too many of the people are idiots.

[FiveGoodMen]

11. "too many of the people are idiots"

That's what killed us.

They believe Rush, Sarah, Michele.

Yeah, we're fucked.

And we can thank our god-damned traitors -- I mean neighbors -- for the loss of America.

[chrisa]

8. I think you're thinking of this the wrong way.

There's not some insidious group of evil people lurking in the shadows, and even worse, threatening the families of those in power. There's just a culture of short-term profit and greed.

Here's the thing - Nobody is thinking about the future. They don't give a shit. While what they're doing might be good for themselves in the long run, these businesses need the Middle Class to survive. If there was no Middle Class, their wealth would be gone as well.

The incentive to screw the middle class is a short-term profit one. However, those who are doing it are dooming themselves as well.

[Ready4Change]

19. Yep.

.

[stevenleser]

20. [phone]

Exactly right. A VERY short time after the middle class finally gives up on the idea they have a personal stake in America, the wealth of the top 1% will cease to exist.

[chrisa]

30. It's like termites chewing on a tree until it eventually falls over and kills all of them.

[conspirator]

42. -1 NO NO they don't need the middle class

They can just close the businesses that used to cater middle class and turn them into businesses to cater for sweat shop workers.
They still own the land and the capital.
The new business cliche is low cost. low cost flights, low cost food(aka poison), etc.
That's why our salaries are being leveled with chinese and indian salaries
They just need people to be kept alive with the bare minimum and desperate, so they can exploit.

[chrisa]

45. They also need people to buy their stuff.

Without that, the business goes under

[Thunderstruck]

48. But you're forgetting one very important thing, re: The Middle Class

We are a nation of 310,000,000 and only part of that is middle class. The part you're forgetting is that the potential for nurturing and growing the middle class in China and India are much more viable. And each of those countries alone can easily match our entire population, rather than just a segment of it, in middle class development.

Now, if you were the greedy head of Widget Co. in America, what would you do? But almost everyone in America who wants one or can afford one already has your widget and your sales have dropped off substantially. You're still selling your widget, but not nearly at the initial rate. But, there's an entire billion+ population in China and a billion+ in India who do not yet have your widget. So, you determine that a market in those countries exist for your product and decide to move your company to one of those countries, probably China, where your goddamned stupid widget is probably already manufactured anyway. And now you're selling your widget at a rate you never dreamed of when it first debuted in America.

So one should not go around thinking or assuming that the American middle class is any better than the Chinese or Indian middle class.

[chrisa]

60. The Middle Class of India and China is extremely weak.

It is completely unlike that of America. America is also a consumer country, not a producing country like China or India. Therefore, if we no longer consumed, we would be screwed.

If they want to live in India or China, fine. However, China and India have a large economic interest in America as well. Without a big customer like America, they would be much worse off as well.

[Taverner]

81. They are NOT thinking long term

They don't care if all middle classes evaporate into the clouds of history - can they make a short term profit. If yes, pass go and collect $200. If no try something else.

[PurityOfEssence]

49. They seem to have forgotten that part.

It's for the other guy to deal with.

[Occulus]

68. Those people all live overseas.

Which is where they've been shipping our jobs.

Cute, huh?

[conspirator]

76. The point is that these people don't own a single business in a single industry

I am not talking about small businessmen here, I am talking about the oligarch families who truly control the monopolies of oil, telecoms, agriculture, weapons etc.
If their ipod business is not going well, screw that, they still have their supermarket chain business, etc.
And in a case of total economy colapse. They will not starve or feel unsafe. They own most of the land where our food is produced and the ammo factories.

[socialist_n_TN]

58. RE: your last sentence..........

Well sure they are. I often say that the capitalists can't even save themselves, V.I. Lenin was right about being sold the rope by the capitalist that would be used to hang them. That's what they are and what they do. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY'RE DOOMING THEMSELVES AS WELL BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE! It's in the system itself.

If a capitalist could make money today off of an end of the world machine, he/she would do it, even if it meant the world would end tomorrow.

[chrisa]

61. It's like what I said before to Steve,

Our country's rich are like a bunch of termites gnawing on a dead tree overhanging The Grand Canyon.

"We never saw it coming." >splat<

[Taverner]

79. Slightly off topic - if you threw a termite into the grand canyon, would it live?

Or would wind resistance and its low weight cause it to survive?

And if in a log, would it crush all termites inside? Even if it were all full of holes?

[chrisa]

83. Don't know. They have a hard exoskeleton, I think.

If it was free-falling, it would probably live because of wind and air resistance. However, if they fell on a tree, it would probably cause them to fall much faster because there would be no resistance. I don't know about crushing the termites inside. If it fell on them, they would probably be dead (like if they were on the bottom), but they might be fine if they were inside.

I think "termites over a river" would have been a better example. :)

[Taverner]

78. Ding ding ding ding!!

Spot on. Yes, they know they'll be destroying the middle class, or rather they don't care they will be destroying them. Short term profits, short term investments. Margins margins margins! Who cares what happens in 5 years I just want to know what happens in 2 years.

Short-sightedness IS the market right now.

And, if there were a slight profit to be made with blowing up Earth, they'd do it.

[MedicalAdmin]

69. Yes, but they don't need a US middle class.

A chinese or Indian one will do very nicely thank you.

[Taverner]

80. They don't need ANY middle class because its all about the short term

will someone pay $x for y? That's the only question asked.

[roody]

9. Plant perennial edibles!

[stevenleser]

21. That only works if when a crisis ensues, others arent looking to take food and other necessities

from other people with force.

[guitar man]

38. Fuck that

Eat the rich! :evilgrin: :silly:

[roody]

72. But I'm a vegetarian!!

[Taverner]

82. Well I wouldn't really call Paris HIlton Sentient Meat so....

[Newest Reality]

10. Here we are!

People who get it are reacting in many ways, from utter dejection to popping and losing it.

Others, who have spent a long time looking behind the mask are already through the stages others have to go through. We have been on a rather clear trajectory for a very long time and now it is at the stage where the media is not being as powerful of a force in manufacturing consent and forging reality.

[Taverner]

15. Take care of family and friends

...

[bindelh]

16. Looser.... Former bank boss Lee Farkas guilty of fraud in US n/t

[Thunderstruck]

50. What does the "Looser" part of your response mean? I know

you aren't calling another DUer a "loser", are you?

[TK421]

85. Scott probably isn't too happy about that

[Generic Other]

17. You fight even in the face of defeat

I recall the mother in FAREWELL TO MANZINAR. She was going to the Japanese re-location camps and had a few days to get her effects in order. Some slimey second-hand dealer came to her door to buy stuff. She had an expensive set of exquisite Japanese china, and he offered her an insulting amount for it. She looked him in the eye and without ever blinking began picking up the china and smashing it on the pavement as he yelped and retreated in the face of her rage. She broke every single piece.

Lesson: what you take may not ultimately be worth the price.

[guitar man]

22. There's a powerful lesson there

We can only be exploited as long as we continue to consent to exploitation.

My grandfather was a staunch union man during the Great Depression. No matter how bad things got he refused to work at his trade for less than union scale. He would do all other types of work for what he could get but when it came to painting houses he was an accomplished professional and he wouldn't budge a penny, and he certainly wouldn't let his union brothers down.

Did it hurt? You bet it did, he was going through sheer hell trying to feed a family in some of the most trying times this country has ever seen. But his perseverence and the perseverence of all those that stood with him ultimately made this country a much better place, for all of us.

We MUST learn to stand up and say NO again. We are dealing with overgrown toddlers here and as long as they keep pitching hissy fits and getting their way they'll keep doing it.

[bindelh]

25. Amen Brother n/t

[lonestarnot]

24. What in the fuck did I miss?

Just got here not long ago. :shrug:

[WiffenPoof]

26. Prozac? n/t

[Paradoxical]

27. I am 21 and nowhere near the stage in my life when I want to give up.

Give me the baton.

[Scruffy1]

37. And there are millions like you.

The younger generation isn't buying the bourgeoisie democracy myth that so many of us waste their time on and then are so ready to give up in discouragement when it doesn't work out. They realize our problems are systemic and no mere regime change will solve them.
So I don't feel so bad sometimes that so little has been done in my lifetime-at least we kept the torch lit to pass on.

[RZM]

39. Many generations are characterized this way when they are young

But they don't stay young forever. Whatever today's young people might believe, they will not necessarily believe the same things 20 years from now. But of course, there will be more young people to take their place and the cycle will continue.

[Ninjaneer]

44. I sincerely wish I could share your sentiments

but I'm 22, and I would say 95% of my friends are politically CLUELESS. These are not dumb people either, they're very intelligent regarding all other aspects of life. Being up to date with politics is just not high up on their list of priorities. They seem to have never transitioned out of the "politics is something mom and dad do, not my business" mindset. And in all honesty, I dont see this changing any time soon. Just based on what I've seen, most of the people my age wont be ready to play the "rebellion!!11" game until everyones packing up and the lights are going out on the field.

[BrendaBrick]

47. Never EVER Give Up!!!!

[woo me with science]

57. Do your friends understand?

Do they understand what is happening, with no historical memory to help them see how America is being fundamentally changed?

Do you think they have the will to rise up?

[FreeJoe]

29. Feeling a bit pessimistic?

If it helps, I've been hearing stuff like this my entire life. The reality on the ground is that life has generally gotten better and not worse.

[lunatica]

31. That's one alternate outcome

But since the future isn't totally set in stone and the present is malleable, then there can be other outcomes. But I think that what you say is very possible.

[timtom]

32. About Obama...

"I really do think Obama is doing all he can."

We're still militarily committed to illegal occupation of 2 once-sovereign nations. Talk about "elephant in the room."

[olegramps]

33. Don't despair; there is a simple solution.

Unionize. It is the only sure way of correcting the situation. When the working class organize they can get representatives elected that will actually represent their interests. This includes fair taxes that confiscate the wealth that has been stolen from the workers, tariffs to protect workers'jobs, universal health care and rescinding of unfair tax laws that allow tax breaks for out-sourcing and illegal banking of profits in off shore accounts to avoid taxes. It could be accomplished in two election cycles if a strong pro-labor candidate gained the presidency. The candidate who could accomplish this must be just as ruthless as the despicable greedy banksters and inaugurate class warfare to seize their ill gotten fortunes. Top tax rates should be 70% and inheritances limited to 5 million along with ending unfair tax breaks for multi-billion dollar corporations so they can award their executives millions in bonuses. That would be change that you could really believe in. That would be my kind of revolutlion that is winable.

[MineralMan]

36. Unrec for terminal doom & gloom.

If you're going to give up, then just give up. We don't need to hear about your abandonment of the issues. What's the point?

[demwing]

40. Its a beautiful day.

go outside, watch the waves, or climb the mountains. Be around something older and bigger than our problems. Catch the sunset tonight, it's free. Consider that as you watch the sun go down, somewhere, someone is watching the same sun come up. Your sunset = their sunrise, and so it goes.

Get away from the computer for a day. I think I will as well... :)

[rusty fender]

41. If the economy is going to crash again, then

it's a good thing that it is only going about 10mph?:eyes:

[upi402]

46. Good one! I like the silver linings

- even in clouds lining up to be a hurricane.

[sudopod]

43. Who's read the Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? nt

[Odin2005]

74. Me!!!

[sudopod]

75. I wish some nerds would elaborate on the co-op system in there, don't you?

I want to move to Mars. *teardrop*

[Odin2005]

84. Yup!

[Demonaut]

51. That's great, this is really fuckin' great, man. Now, what the fuck are we supposed to do?

That's it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the fuck are we supposed to now, huh, what are we gonna do?

[Ikonoklast]

65. I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Demonaut]

73. lol, I'm sure a few others got the ref

nt

[kjackson227]

52. I've been feeling the very same way ever since the Dumbya...

Administration. I had absolutely no idea how corrupt our leaders/government are/could be. My eyes are wide open now, and seeing the influence that the banks/lobbyists/Koch Brothers have on our government is not a pretty sight. President Obama is only one man up against big money and our bought-and-paid-for legislators ( many Dems included). I'm afraid he's outnumbered, and our futures and our kids' futures don't look so bright to me anymore.

[Imajika]

53. Nobody is physically threatening Obama or his family...

This is what people say when they are angry the person they voted for didn't do what they wanted. Oh you still want to like the President, but your angry he hasn't done what you wanted so you chalk it up to some conspiracy. "They" must be threatening my politician because he/she isn't doing what I want!

"They won. The rat bastards cheated and they won."

Translation: My side is not currently winning the argument to the degree I want so "they" must be cheating.

"Honestly, I really do think Obama is doing all he can. But in the end he has to protect himself and his family. And in the end, we'll all be fearing for our lives. He knows what he can do, and can't. And I really don't blame him for not wanting to be killed along with his family."

That is just silly. If your unhappy with what the President is doing you should say so, not convince yourself he'd be doing what you want if only his family weren't be threatened.

"If you invested in a pension or 401K they're going to get that too. Money is not for you, not for me. It's for them, and the sooner we learn that the better."

Why would "they" go for your 401K? The conservatives wish everyone had a 401k instead of the traditional pension.

"Value your friends and family. We will all be spending a lot more time with them soon."

Glenn Beck? Is that you? Just kidding, but seriously - don't you think your a little over the top here? You sound as apocalyptic as some of the right wingers who are hoarding food and water.

Every generation thinks the end of here, the collapse is coming, etc. Odds are it won't happen. You are right to value your friends and family though. And actually, while not nearly as pessimistic as you, I do think we are living through troubled times (almost pre-revolutionary) that might result in big changes. The question is, which ideology is likely to get the edge going on forward. We just don't know that yet.

Personally, I like Obama and think he's been, overall, a fantastic President and I believe he will likely be elected to a second term. I think, over time, the crazies on the right will be marginalized and eventually forgotten.

[BrendaBrick]

59. Yeah....I've been thinking on this some......

First off - ain't it great to have someone in the White House who is intelligent, articulate and sees the "Big Picture"?

My thinking is this: I really do, in my heart of hearts believe that he is doing the very best he can considering what awful mess he walked in to.

Having said that....I also feel that he was maybe....a bit naive in some ways?

Like - OK. (He might have been thinking...) I'm going to TRY and compromise with (some)of these idiots. Be the *grown-up* in the room - you know?

No dice. I think and feel and believe that WHEN he IS elected in 2012.....know sumthin' what? I believe this man will come out with both barrels!!!!!

He'll come out in 2012 saying....know what? I learned my lesson already! I naively ASSUMED that we could all find some common ground here - you know - ALL act like grown-ups????

But I was wrong...and believe you me...sometimes finally admitting we were wrong about some things can really and truly be the greatest of gifts!

Pushed all of that 'other crap' way, waaaaaaay out of the way and the road ahead couldn't be more crystal clear!!!!

(That's my story, by gosh....and I'm sticking to it!!!!!)

[Imajika]

70. Good post...

"First off - ain't it great to have someone in the White House who is intelligent, articulate and sees the "Big Picture"?"

This x 100. Seriously. It is nice to wake up each day and not have to worry about all the horrible things a Republican president does behind the scenes. We don't have to worry about appointments of radical right wingers to sensitive positions, we don't have to worry about crazy executive orders, etc, etc. So yes, this is perhaps the best thing about having a serious, intelligent, articulate President - at least we get some piece of mind.

"My thinking is this: I really do, in my heart of hearts believe that he is doing the very best he can considering what awful mess he walked in to."

Yes, he is. Your heart is correct. One thing I think people have to realize is that talk is kind of cheap. When campaigning it is easy to make lofty promises, but much harder to deliver these things once in charge. Some of those promises just weren't realistic, some of those promises were made to fire up segments of the base that maybe should not have been, and some promises are just impossible to fulfill considering we are a nation with powerful checks and balances. It is easy to get angry about those checks and balances when our team is in charge, but we should remember they also block some of the more insane stuff the other side would like to push through when they get the reigns of power.

"I naively ASSUMED that we could all find some common ground here - you know - ALL act like grown-ups????"

Yeah, that isn't going to happen. The opposition will fight us with everything they have. Things change though. We have the right ideas, we just have to convince the masses. Big changes in public opinion can happen suddenly, we just have to hone our arguments and make our case. We are the reasonable people, the right wing are out of the mainstream. The Republicans have big money to prop them up, but our good ideas will win out in the end. It may be ugly for awhile, but in the end we will win the day.

[BrendaBrick]

87. Yup!

Did you see "The Ed show"....was it last night? (I almost said the "Mr. Ed Show"...you remember that black and white TV show from the 60's about the talking horse....Mr. Ed)? ha ha ha - hey - we gotta keep up a sense of humor here folks!

Anyway - seems like the Republicans have finally crossed the line as the two men that were on that show (who were formally Republicans) attest to in no uncertain terms WHY and that this just in fact, might well be the wave of the future.

I think it is and will finally all boil down to pushing aside those 'less than imperative wedge/distraction issues' which have divided the two parties (as far as "We The People" are concerned....) and not unlike what a chef does in de-glazing a pan in order to get down to the real essence of a thing....so it will be with the issues of leaving Medicare and Social Security the heck alone....ACROSS THE BOARD!!!!

Yep. I think the Republicans went just a tad too far with this Medicare stuff and it's my hunch that many will continue to leave the party!

[Cetacea]

54. 5,000+ gulf dolphins agree

http://news.discovery.com/animals/gulf-deaths-underestimated-110330.html

[RedCloud]

62. The wealthy did not fare so well in the USSR. Just saying.

[BOG PERSON]

63. yes they did

now they run what used to be it.

[TNLib]

64. It will be guillotine time before it gets to that point

don't give up there are more of us than them.

[SoulSearcher]

66. You gotta be kidding

You think this is because of the 2010 election???
Or the 2008 , or 2004 elections???

It's about WALL STREET. And money. And the swamp
of politicians who are willing to take your vote and leave you
behind in the street. People that talk the talk - but never - I repeat
NEVER walk the walk. The system is not designed for non-rich
people. We argue about Tax Breaks for the Rich like that is really
going to make a rats ass difference - while at the same time
no one has any clue what the insane mess of tax rules is about any
way (did you really do your own taxes by just reading the forms?)

Guaranteed whatever is passed, the rich will be able to morph into
a new way to avoid them. But you wont.

[Taverner]

77. It's about all of that, and more

It's also about the collective weight of the baby boomers
It's also about overpopulation in the third world
It's also about overpopulation in the first world
It's also about our environment on the precipice of collapse

Call us Rapa Nui...

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. what brought this on?

[Fire Walk With Me]

86. "Value your friends and family. We will all be spending a lot more time with them soon."

That is partially the point of what is occuring.