Survey: Most Android users 'hate Apple'

[onehandle]

But our subject today is whether the Android brand attracts, at its core, not those who love Android, but those who hate Apple. I ask because the Business Insider published the results of a survey it conducted that offer some prickly conclusions.

Among more than 2,000 respondents, the survey seems to have found polarization beyond all comments sections of tech blogs. The majority of these public-spirited people were Android users.

The majority of these Android users purportedly would never consider buying an iPhone, for one very simply reason: They "hate Apple."

Indeed, only 31.2 percent of these Android users would consider buying an iPhone if it "worked better with non-iPhone apps and products." While 55.7 percent ticked the box that said, "Nothing: I hate Apple."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20055181-71.html

This is certainly how it seems in the comments of Every tech blog on the Internet. They even go out of their way to go to Apple-centric places to express this sentiment.

[SpiralHawk]

1. SockPuppetry Sucks

Stuff.

[spanone]

2. i love apple

[ileus]

3. I hated apple until the Iphone come along....I still bought an android

phone because I can't understand why I shouldn't be able to expand memory or replace a battery myself. My wife picked up the I4 because it was easier to use....the android system still has a bunch of bugs but I'm smoothing them out one by one.

I've debated on taking my Atrix back and exchange it for an Iphone 4 but I suppose I'll just keep it. IMHO the android software is about where windows was with win95. LOL

On edit: I also thought the screen was too small on the Iphone.

[Drale]

4. I don't hate Apple but

I do think it is over expensive and much to simplistic for me.

[Ezlivin]

5. Technological savants that are emotionally puerile

Why let emotions affect your judgement? Approach that next smart phone, computer or gadget like Spock: Use no emotions and let logic and reason guide you.

I've used a wide range of computers since 1977. The only time I got pissed is when it didn't work (or I couldn't figure it out). :)

But, hey, if getting all emotional about a gadget is your thing, enjoy!

[KittyWampus]

91. I once started a thread in GD asking about the animus between Apple/Microsoft users

it was pretty interesting and I wish I had a link.

[Armstead]

6. Personally I prefer peaches

[DirkGently]

7. Apple-haterism does seem strong on the 'net. Loved watching the whole "Ipad will fail" meme ... fail

:)

[Zephie]

8. I love my droid, but I have no animosity towards apple

The fact is that I got my droid for free, and iPhones are expensive.

[Demonaut]

9. non-conformist Apple to uber-conformist apple

I'll probably go android

[ipfilter]

10. I feel no emotions towards

circuit boards and lcd screens.

[Speck Tater]

11. My first real computer was an Apple II. I loved it. Then the MAC came out...

I couldn't open the case to install expansion boards. I couldn't peruse a listing of the operating system. Everything was hidden and secret. I hated it. I haven't bought a single Apple product since, and never will again.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. And to those of us who aren't tech geeks,

that's just fine.

Those who derive joy from tinkering with the technical aspects of their computer may prefer Windows or Linux, but I prefer to have something that works with no muss-no fuss and is compatible with all the other devices.

[Speck Tater]

22. Good point.

Back then I was definitely a tech geek. These days, not so much. I stick with a Windows laptop that has all the same "drawbacks" I just now complained about in the MAC. Either that makes me a hypocrite, or my priorities have shifted in the last 40 years and I have failed to adjust my attitudes accordingly. Hmmm. Food for introspection, for sure. :) Thank you.

[onehandle]

25. Unless you were a real tech geek and did these things anyway.

And two years later, the Mac II came out with official expansion slots.

I'm curious what computers you were installing expansion boards in during those two years.

[Speck Tater]

51. That was the heyday of the S-100 bus

for REAL tech geeks. You had to know how to use a soldering iron and build your own circuit boards. Most of us computer hobbyists back then were also engineers or ham radio operators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-100_bus

[hootinholler]

83. The S100 Rocked!

Once you got the bios mod'd to recognize your new board and play nice with the ones that were there.

Thanks for the visit with Mr Peabody.

-Hoot

[Tesha]

39. Thank you for proving the article's point. (NT)

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. I love apples!

Green apples with salt... TANGY!

Huge Utah apples...

Washington apples...

Damn I love 'em all!

[PoiBoy]

13. Android user here....

on the waiting list for the Ipad 2...

I like the Android OS, but Apple is so far ahead of Android in Apps World... that's what decided it for me...

Professional quality Apps that work great, are in wide use in my industry, and are available now.... that's the way for me...

:hi:

[Xithras]

15. "Hate" is a strong word...

I don't dislike Apple, but I abhor their enforced conformity and their big brotherish management and control of the third party app market. Apple, today, is the Microsoft of 1997...with fewer software bugs.

[customerserviceguy]

16. And, it helps to hate Microsoft, too

I don't hate MS in general, but after a year and a half with my Windows Mobile 6.1 (now 6.5) phone, I realize I made the wrong choice. I'll never go Apple, but when the current smartphone is worn out, sign me up for Android, too. They have all the really cool apps.

[backscatter712]

28. The positions of Microsoft and Apple were from luck.

Microsoft got lucky in the PC business with MS-DOS, then Windows and Office. They got monopoly status and exploited it.

Apple got lucky in the smartphone business, got near-monopoly status, and exploited it. Thankfully, Android came along and demonopolized the smartphone business.

Because Steve Jobs would have been at least as much of an asshole as Bill Gates if he was the one running the monopoly.

[DirkGently]

94. Except DOS really was the only game in town, whereas Apple out competed.

As is endlessly pointed out, Apple didn't invent the tablet computer, or the smartphone, or the portable digital music player, or the mouse or graphical user interface.

What Apple did was bring superior products to market that only appeared to become a "monopoly" in that the rest of the market has been chasing the Apple design ever since.

Whatever flat, touchscreen, virtual keyboard smartphone one thinks is best, whatever novel-sized, tablet computer one prefers, it's still a take on a form factor and a design aesthetic that only made Apple SEEM like the only game in town. Apple didn't prevent anyone from making a smartphone people would want as much as they wanted the iPhone.

The ONLY thing stopping anyone from making these now-endless iPhone and iPad and iMac and iPod competitors was that they FAILED TO THINK OF IT FIRST. Couldn't or wouldn't doesn't matter. No one was physically restrained from making the iPhones everyone now makes.

They just didn't.

Once the iPod showed up, other portable music players seemed outdated. Ditto the iPhone, iMac, iPad.

Gates didn't just stumble on his success either. He brilliantly exploited an opportunity to provide an operating system IBM didn't understand it needed to own. And Microsoft later came up with other top-of-class software that became ubiquitous.

But it wasn't a fluke, or hype, or the vulnerability of the world to marketing that made the iPhone seem like a quantum leap in smartphone design, or for the iPad to become the first tablet machine anyone actually wanted to own.

Apple builds beautiful, stable, reliable machines that people want to own and use. Again and again, the Apple design becomes the benchmark.

That ain't luck.

;)

[Paradoxical]

17. I'm a computer geek and I still love Apple.

[stevenleser]

18. There are reasons many of us hate Apple. I'll list a few:

1. They claim they innovate, but everything that is supposedly an innovation is stolen from somewhere else. The Mac OS was stolen from someone else (Xerox if I am not mistaken), the idea of a smartphone was stolen from someone else (Palm), and a Pad based computer was stolen from somewhere else (various other pre-iPad Pad makers). Then they complain and try to sue when other people resteal the idea that they stole in the first place, and become more successful with it (Windows, Android phones, and soon, Android Pad based computers.)

2. They brag about how easy their Mac OS is to use, but they don't have the complications Windows has (keeping various versions of DOS and prior versions of Windows software as compatible as possible with new versions). Instead, Mac forces people to upgrade OS's pretty regularly otherwise new software just will not work. It's easy to make your OS clean and bug free if you throw your 2+ year old users under the bus and force them to buy a new computer and new OS and new software. If you can afford that, then great, Apple works for you. Many people cannot afford to do that. I cannot tell you how many times I have been trying to help Mac friends install new software only to find out "You need to upgrade the Operating System in order to do that".

3. One word. "Proprietary". Fortunately, this ends up severely marginalizing whatever Apple comes out with in fairly short order.

[Paradoxical]

19. What a load of crap.

Especially #2.

I've been using Snow Leopard since it came out. Anyone could upgrade from the previous edition for $29. And it didn't require any licensing so everyone could use the same CD.

I've used every operating system you could imagine. I use to refurbish every kind of computer you can imagine.

[MedicalAdmin]

29. I agree - our medical clinic uses apple and some windows.

The windows machines are neutered so they can never use the internet but are allowed limited access to our apple served intranet for printing and file sharing. We use the windows machines for a few medical diagnostic windows specific programs that are just easier logistically to run on separate laptops. We have an 8 year old tower which runs os10.4, a laptop on 10.5, a laptop on 10.6 and the server and a mini running 10.6. They all work well together. I have no problems with file transfer and limited info syncing and back up is a snap.

If you are going to complain at least pick something legitimate. And yes they are all OS 10 but why would anyone keep running OS 9 when you can upgrade the OS on the old computers and have them run faster and better for minimal cost?

Say what you will about apple but they tech support is the best in the business. One call does it all - or that is my experience.

[stevenleser]

32. Neither of you refuted any of my points. n/t

[MedicalAdmin]

33. How so?

I guess you didn't read the part about our clinic using computers from 8 years old to about 1 year old and they all play together nicely. In what way were any of those computers thrown under the bus?

I get that you don't like apple, at least one of your points (#2?) doesn't make any sense from my experience. And point #3 - what do you mean? Please expand upon your point if you would.

[Egnever]

52. File sharing has little or nothing to do with software

Its all pretty much done with tcp/ip now and even apple had to give in and adopt it in order to work with the rest of the computing world.

Any OS these days should be able to share files flawlessly no matter the version. There is nothing special about macs in doing this whatsoever. And it certainly does not address the posters point about having to upgrade the OS to use newer software.

[Paradoxical]

63. The original poster is full of shit.

That's my point. The whole point about updating software could be made about microsoft.

And at least Apple offers their software at affordable prices.

[MedicalAdmin]

85. Here's my final word on the subject.

Every OS sucks by 3Dead Trolls in a Baggie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85p7JZXNy8

[MedicalAdmin]

86. Good to know - thanks.

I've been out of the tech loop for a few years (decades in tech time).

Appreciated.



Enjoy this link to a song called Every OS Sucks by 3Dead Trolls in a Baggie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d85p7JZXNy8

[Paradoxical]

38. We kind of did. I have a friend who owns an original MB Pro.

Mine is almost 2 years old. And it's still ticking along like it's brand new.

[REP]

35. OMG they stopped supporting OS 8 (1997) and 9 (1999)

And they "stole" the iPad from the people who made the Newton.

The iPhone isn't really a PDA like RIM's devices - but you know that.

[joshcryer]

61. Eben Moglen on Apple:

And we have an opportunity to explain to people how things could be different, which depends not on Utopia, not on some vision of a place we can’t get to from here, but rather on a thing already running on a USB thumb drive. “Here, take this, attach it to the frame of your machine – assuming that it’s not one made by Steve Jobs, who never wants you to boot from a USB key.”

Right? I mean, you can’t, right, you can’t, you’re not allowed. “Why would you ever need to boot an Apple box from a USB key?” “You don’t need any software except the software he gave you.”, right? Nobody has yet fully documented what everybody who isn’t part of the cult understands, which is that nobody has ever had more contempt for customers than Mr. Jobs. Nobody.

[jberryhill]

88. #2 seems well wide of the mark

I run a small business and having to deal with a mix of WinXP (no longer supported), Vista and now Win7, along with the applications I use to run the business has been a total nightmare in terms of compatibility issues.

No, I don't want to pay the Microsoft Tax of $300 per user every two years.

As things need to be replaced, we are switching to Apple.

While I have an advanced technical background, I really shouldn't need one just to keep a few machines running the applications I need and a moderately unsophisticated network.

And, sure, you could walk in, look around and give me a raft of things that I could configure better or other commentary in the category of "You're doing it wrong" - but that's my point. I just want this crap to work.

[FormerDittoHead]

106. You forgot a favorite: iTunes. Apple users *L*O*V*E* iTunes!

I FUCKING HATE ITUNES. I DON'T USE IT AND NEVER WILL.

Let's not forget their other "gem" - Quicktime. Do you want to upgrade to "Pro" now so you can get rid of these fucking notices?

No, Steve, and fuck YOU.

[ecstatic]

20. Interesting. After a little thought, I don't think I hate Apple

but it is kind of weird that I don't own one single product from them. I just think their products are overrated, gimmicky, and not very practical or cost effective.

[Tesha]

41. When one considers TCO (Total Cost of Ownership), Apple products are very practical.

They tend to have longer useful lifespans than
equivalent PCs and have almost zero support costs.

Tesha

[DirkGently]

50. My conclusion when my SO's 6-yr-old Macbook Pro outlived my two HP laptops.

One of the HP's just cracked at the screen casing. Not dropped. Hardly ever left the desktop. Just broke. Board on the other one blew and couldn't be fixed for less than the cost of a new machine. Hers needed a couple of fixes, but came back better-than-new from Apple, every time. It's still around somewhere, ready to go, with a shiny new aluminum keyboard and bezel Apple installed just to be nice. Just too old to run the newer software. Every PC device I've had has just broken irrevocably at some point.

Different strokes are fine. But Apple hardware is the best computer equipment I've ever used by a wide margin.

[Egnever]

53. Sorry but thats just hogwash

Apple hardware is no different than pc hardware these days. If you paid the same price for a pc as you did for your mac the hardware would be better than the macs.

HP is the garbage bin of PC builders btw they have a 25% failure rate. They chose the cheapest hardware they can get away with. Its no surprise it broke.

Why not list the separate costs for the two machines. I would bet you paid at least 300 more for the mac than you did the HP's and again of all the manufacturers to chose from you chose the one with the biggest failure rate.

[Paradoxical]

65. lol. What utter bullshit.

:rofl:

[Egnever]

104. Read it and weep fanboy

Apple lags behind Toshiba asus and Sony in dependability and HP is the the biggest seller of crap of them all.

[Tesha]

77. Even if Apple hardware were identical in reliability..,

...(and just for the purposes of argument, I'll grant you that),
the TCO of the Apple gear is still *FAR LESS*.

1. Apple gear lasts longer in useful service. You can survive
more OS and application upgrades than with a comparable PC.
And contrary to some of the posters here, you can upgrade the
RAM and disks on most Apple gear with no trouble at all; we
usually upgrade ours once during its life.

2. Support costs are far lower; Apple stuff "just runs" with very
little need for support. Some of you consider that "too simple";
for those of us who make our livings from our computers, every
minute we spend dinking around with the computer trying to
get it to do something is a minute for which we're not
getting paid.

3. Apple gear is essentially virus-free with no effort at all on
the part of the users. No anti-virus to install, no anti-virus to
update, and no anti-virus to run, sucking up those precious
CPU cycles. Some will say that's because Apple's market
share is too small for the virus writers to bother with; well,
aside from the fact that such folks are living in the past (when
Apple's market share actually was small), I say "I don't care!";
the end result for me is still a virus-free machine with no work
whatsoever on my part.

Seriously, non-Apple users become Apple users all the time,
but hardly anyone ever willingly goes the other way.

Tesha

(Where, in our shop, we run Mac OS/X, Windows, Solaris, and
Linux and have in the past run several other systems.)

[DirkGently]

82. Haha! Exactly the invested anti-Apple attitude the OP describes. And factually wrong.

Why do people need to argue that someone else's experience is invalid? My opinion wasn't that other people's opinions were bullshit. What entitles you to take that attitude?

And no, Apples aren't built the same. Who else bothers to make a keyboard or a case out of a block of aluminum? No one. I looked.

Why do others scramble to copy the form factor of iMacs, iPhones, and iPads? Design matters. It's part of how well something functions, and how you can integrate it into what people actually do with the hardware. A lot of other companies fail to grasp that. It's not just HP. Try to find a really good laptop, and you'll find a lot of plastic boxes with wowie lights, premium price tags, and no particular attention to detail. Not everything that's not Apple is crap, but a whole lot of it is built on the "anonymous box of components" philosophy that started with the first "IBM clones."

Part of the weirdo anti-Apple cult is that design does NOT matter. CAN'T matter. A box is a box is a box. How many megs and Ghz you got? What's the gigs-per-dollar, dude? And anyone who thinks otherwise is the helpless victims of marketing hype. It's the exact brand of silly, jealous, fanboy noisemaking you see on car websites obsessing over 1/4 mile times and theoretical horsepower figures, and poo-pooing frilly girlstuff like .. build quality. Seats that work. Craftsmanship.

Again, it's a big world, and the more designs and the more opinions out there the better. I don't argue every other kind of computer equipment in the world is objectively inferior to Apple, or that the consumers of other brands are mindless slaves to the marketing hype of Android or Dell or Sony.

I don't have to. I have Apple stuff, and, ever notice? People with Apple stuff are happy with what they have, and don't need to bash other brands.

Why is that, you think?

:)

[Egnever]

97. Hopelessly rose collored glasses

I can link you to pages and pages of unsatisfied apple owners that have machines that just dont work.

Its exactly your tired propaganda that apple just works that makes me hate apple so much cause it just doesnt. It works as long as you stay where they want you to but venture off the beaten path and you get into all kinds of trouble. And the hardware failure rates are no better/worse than similarly priced pc's

People are welcome to buy whatever they want and be happy. I could care less, PC's arent going anywhere and neither is apple. The garbage that apple is any better worse than any other box is just that garbage. It may be more esoterically pleasing but despite you not liking it hardware is hardware and apple doesnt have magic hardware that doesnt break.

What you are spewing is propaganda.

Seriously an aluminum keyboard is your metric? When what is most important to you is the look of your machine then I can see why mac would be the way to go, when value is the concern a PC will slap apple arround every time.

[DirkGently]

102. Err. No. Apple dominates satisfaction ratings. Metal cases aren't better? C'mon.

... and you're offering invisible chatroom links as evidence? This is exactly the kind of chuckle-worthy Apple-envy pettiness the OP is talking about. You DO care about slagging Apple, or you wouldn't be working so desperately to do so. No one satisfied with what they have is this invested in convincing others that what THEY have is no good.

And if you truly can't grasp how something being made from better materials that are, for example lighter, stronger, and sturdier, is a measure of quality that goes beyond looks, I have an iron racing bike to sell you. :D

"Apple continues its dominance, leading the PC category by a wide margin for the seventh straight year. Customer satisfaction with Apple’s computer products, including the iPad, rose 2% to an ACSI of 86—the highest score ever for Apple", the study said. Apple thrashed it competition. Its closest rivals were nine points behind it-Acer, Dell (NASDAQ: DELL), and Hewlett-Packard (NYSE: HPQ) had ratings of 77. Compaq was the lowest rated PC with a score of 74.

.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-apple-dominates-pc-quality-ratings-2010-09-22

[Egnever]

103. Metal cases?

Seriously? aluminum casses for pc's are everywhere apple doesnt have a corner on that market.

From your link

All of the companies with rated PC products did relatively well. "Customer satisfaction with PCs surged 4.0% to match the industry’s all-time high of 78. Nearly all brands showed increases in satisfaction and no manufacturer declined."

There is no apparent mystery behind the success of the Mac. A large number of computer buyers are loyal to all things Apple. They are the same people who buy iPhones and iPods. The Mac, its operating system, and Safari browser are superior products, these buyers claim. Apple's software is less prone to cyber-attacks because it is not was widely used as Windows.

Its rabid fanboy stuff. According to one of the largest warentee providers apple is not the most reliable toshiba and sony hold that title



And like I said I can provide hundreds of links to unsatisfied apple customers or customers with problems. Your apple worship may not allow you to accept that but walk into an apple store sometime and check out the line for service repairs sometime, heres a clue it wont be empty ever.

MY bottom line is macs are no better or worse than PC's but they sure as hell are priced a lot higher for similar equipment that has compatibility problems with a lot of the rest of the computing world. The ridiculous claims that macs just work so much better than pc's is just that ridiculous and doesnt hold up. Its the same hardware these days and pretending one is better than the other is silly.

Aluminum pc cases
http://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pc+case&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=aluminum+pc+case&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bih=588&biw=1120&fp=8732f7f7c957af80&hl=en&prmd=ivns&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=shop

Aluminum keyboards
http://www.google.com/search?q=aluminum+pc+case&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=aluminum+keyboard&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bih=588&biw=1120&fp=8732f7f7c957af80&hl=en&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=shop

Hundreds of both so the idea you cant get them in anything other than a mac is also silly.

[DirkGently]

108. Your links are to meaningless Google searches. Sony & Toshiba are premium brands like Apple.

Oh dear. Customer satisfaction is meaningless? I love that element of the anti-Apple cult. "You don't really like your computer. You just think you do. Let me explain about Ghz per dollar, you poor, mindless captive of the Apple Marketing Machine."

:rofl:


C'mon. People here are telling you they rely on their Apple stuff for professional applications. That's not an area with a lot of room for doe-eyed fantasy. If your work machine doesn't function well, you're not going to keep it because you like Jobs' mock turtleneck. It's laughably presumptuousness to even suggest it.

And Apple designs are copied, why? Just eye-catching? Like, the iPhone was the same as every other smartphone, but had a cooler color scheme, or something? So now every smartphone that comes out looks like an iPhone, with an interface like an iPhone, and an App Store like an iPhone, but that's just some kinda trendy nonsense? None of those ideas had any actual merit? Nothing about the iPhone worked better in any way? Talk about rabid, silly fanboys making things up to make themselves feel better. There's a lot of magical thinking going on here, but it's not coming from the Apple folks.

And your argument is based on price, and you trot out SONY AND TOSHIBA? Priced those lately? Which is it, now? Are all computers identical boxes full of components and nothing more, or does design, build quality, and the company behind it matter? You can't claim the build quality of the two PC brands which equal or exceed Apple in price, and then base your Apple hatred on how expensive they are.

Does design matter, or doesn't it?

Your "bottom line" is that you're arguing computer equipment is a box full of components *and nothing more*. That's hopelessly simplistic and just empirically wrong. Design matters. It's not everything, but it's not just looks or marketing hype. Prior smartphones didn't function like an iPhone. Other tablets were not iPads. A plastic HP with Windows and bloatware does not function like an aluminum MacBook Pro, even if the processors are identical. As you note, even among PCs, the most expensive brands DO offer something more: reliability and customer satisfaction.

I.e., BETTER DESIGN. The case is an EXAMPLE, for Christ's sake. You get in a car, and the dashboard flexes under your fingers, the gearshift is rubbery, and ten miles down the road it shuts off, and the dealer tells you it would cost more to fix it than it's worth, and you don't care, because it's just a box of components? The Honda's not worth having over the Chevette, because they both have four cylinders?

As noted, people can like or not like all kinds of different things, and it's certainly nothing strange to find Apple's pricing high. But you can also easily spend more and have an inferior experience tossing a fistful of anonymous plastic PCs in the trash, as many in this thread have explained to you.

And again, people happy with what they have don't feel the need to say the "other" kind is horrible crap. That's what people who wish they had the other thing tend to say. Go enjoy a cheap PC, or pay Apple-like bucks for a better-made Sony or Toshiba. But telling other people their well-reasoned opinions are bullshit because you have some personal need to poo-poo products you don't "get" is just pointless and bizarre.

[Egnever]

109. And your refutations are nothing but feel good nonsense

The majority of the business world relies on windows for a reason.

Your arguments are all subjective to your opinion nothing more.

The fact remains despite the outside of the box the guts are no different than any other machine out there. The boards are made by intel the video by ATI and the drives are made by seagate. Nothing apple in them, stock parts made by the same manufacturers that make the parts for every other computer manufacturer.

Your design matters is purely a personal choice and doesn't reflect at all on durability or performance.

You are exactly the customer apple is looking for someone who cares more about what something looks like than what it actually can do. And willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for the exact same equipment.

Again apples stuff isn't any better built as the chart I referenced shows the failure rate is higher than toshiba asus and sony. So your whole better built is out the window. and calling toshiba a premium brand is pretty funny considering once again for a similarly specced toshiba you will pay hundreds less than for a mac and it will play well with the overwhelming majority of the computers in the world.

Again buy whatever you like but pretending its this mythical can not fail machine is utter provably false BS. All that is, is you buying into the apple hype and paying for it ... they say one is born every minute.

[DirkGently]

110. And Porsche window switches are made by VW. Same car? No logic in your logic.

None of your dubious and vague citations show Apple stuff isn't well made. It does show the more expensive PC manufacturers make products that fail less often, which completely eliminates the basis of your argument, which is that all computer equipment is nothing more than a box of components. And everyone has had the experience of the plasticky PC junk with the fancy component specs that hop, skip and wobble until their inevitable early graves.

Which PC manufacturer created the phone now imitated by all others? And the tablet for which a thousand new copies will hit the market as I type this, by the way? How was it that the iPod, iMac, etc etc keep re-defining the marketplace and setting the bar for what every other machine tries to look like and work like?

Frippery? Looks? Marketing? That's some super wishful thinking. I don't think you'd find anyone at Android that thinks the iPhone sucks. They're trying to build a better one. Motorola seems to admire the iPad. All idiots obsessed with superficial details too I guess.

And sorry, but no, PCs don't rule the entire business world. Microsoft does, and it comes on PCs. Peek your head in a publishing, or design, advertising, or photography or video-related business sometime and look for a PC.

And no one here said Apples are miracle never-fail machines. That's more nutty Apple-hating droolery. Stuff works good. This has been my experience, and the experience of other people I know who use it. We're not imagining the piles of inferior hardware decorating our wastebaskets. And the rest of the industry isn't imagining who it is that they're trying to catch up with, either.


:D

[Egnever]

112. More feel good nonsense

obviously its all you got.

The only thing you seem to be able to say is APPLE great apple the innovator! LOL yet all the while ignoring the facts. Not only that but outright making things up. Toshibas and ASUS are no more expensive than any other PC manufacturer in fact they are often less expensive.

And Yep the MAJORITY of the business world runs on windows which runs on PC's LOL they don't run windows on macs....hah your fanboy nonsense is funny yet so entirely pathetic.

[wickerwoman]

60. That's my experience as well.

Everyone I know with a PC replaces them 2-3 times more often than I do my Macs. My current one is 7 years old. I've never had any real problems with it (a broken fan that was replaced for free five years out of warranty and they replaced my case for free as well just because it was looking a little worn). My current computer replaced a 6 year old laptop that was still completely functional but not up to the new generation of games.

So two computers in thirteen years with not a single meltdown, freeze or virus and only one minor repair. That's decent value for money in my book.

[DCBob]

21. I am an Androdian and I love Apple too..

just find their stuff a bit overpriced.

[frylock]

23. any phone that you have to PHYSICALLY connect to a computer to update..

is a piece of shit. even my crappy Palm Pre did updates OTA.

[Starry Messenger]

24. I just plugged my Android into the Mac to recharge.

Guess I'll go die now or something.

[BklynThirtyThree]

26. Another geek here

I love my quad-core Mac Pro. Never thought I'd say this, but yes it's much better than my previous PCs.

[kentauros]

27. My reaction to their latest iPhone ad campaign

is that they're actively trying to lose potential customers. Sure, many will still be sold because it shows off all the latest bells and whistles, but the underlying message is:

"If you don't have an iPhone, well, you're stupid."

And I am thrilled that I don't require a smart phone or any iProducts to exist happily in this life :)

[pokerfan]

30. iPhones have cooler apps

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/iphone-tracks

[ellie]

31. I have an Android

I wanted an iPhone. I love Apple. I just couldn't afford it.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. Apples ad campaigns are just chilling to me

I do hate their ads, many of them, over a period of many years. They work great on the intended audience, those who think they are not vulnerable to advertizing. They built a brand loyalty in those who claim to detest brands and ads and consumerism. Amazing, but frightening ads.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. their ads are my biggest issue too...

their products of late are sexy, to be sure. however, when they advertised the iPad as 'magical' i almost puked... it was/is certainly better than predecessors, but 'magical'? i think not...

sP

[kentauros]

84. Have you noticed how the latest iPhone ads are trying to make you feel

stupid for not owning one? I mute or skip them at every opportunity.

[KurtNYC]

80. are you talking about "I'm a Mac. - I'm a PC" ?

how is that chilling?

[Critters2]

36. Don't care about Apple one way or the other. Hate AT&T. Have a Blackberry. nt

[Tesha]

43. So use the Verizon iPhone. (NT)

[Kurska]

37. I don't outright hate Apple products, I just couldn't imagine using something so limited

presented in such a childish way and all for considerably more money. Their commercials have been insulting my intelligence with outright lies for years and I'd prefer no smart phone to a Iphone.

[Tesha]

44. Thank you for proving the article's point. (NT)

[TheKentuckian]

40. Guilty-ish

I don't like the lockdown factor. Eventually Google will be about as bad and something else will be up my alley.

There isn't really an emotional component for me.

[JackDragna]

42. The reason I have an Android phone..

..is because I can customize its looks without rooting the damned thing. Oh, I can also change my own battery. :)

[Tesha]

45. How often do *YOU* have to change the battery?

Mr. Tesha's almost three-year-old iPhone 3G is
still doing just fine on its original battery.

Tesha

[Berserker]

48. I have and EVO 4G

and it is over a year old and never had battery problems. It holds a charge all day with lots of use. I love the freedom android phones give you. I don't need apple telling me whats a good app for me or whats a bad app I will make my own decisions. Open source not closed.

[Tesha]

74. Thank you for proving the article's point. (NT)

[JackDragna]

49. It's not that the battery dies constantly..

..but that I have the freedom to purchase multiple batteries and swap them out, rather than waiting for a single battery to charge before I use the phone again. Not only is it convenient for day-to-day use, it gives me the option of taking the phone into places where charging it may not be feasible.

[Paradoxical]

67. Solar cell laptop chargers.

[Fumesucker]

68. Solar chargers don't work well (if at all) under artificial lighting..

Thanks to the fact our eyes are remarkably sensitive to light we don't need anything like full daylight illumination levels to see well, artificial lighting takes advantage of this fact to save energy by only being bright enough for us to see reasonably well, the energy level inherent in virtually all artificial lightning is far lower than direct sunlight.

I picked up a "solar powered flashlight" in the store the other day and turned it on, the light worked for less than ten seconds.

[Paradoxical]

69. If you're under artificial light, you're probably near an electrical outlet.

Solar panels, as the name implies, are designed to function off of solar light.

[Fumesucker]

81. How many people *actually* use a "solar charger" out in direct sunlight?

A very small percentage I reckon.

Indeed, where would you leave such a device in sunlight (along with the expensive device it's connected to) without it becoming a risk to be stolen?

Also, being tied down to a receptacle to charge a battery is a far more limiting thing than just popping in a fresh battery, one takes considerable time (hours often) and the other just moments.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. I have an iphone and my brother has an Android. He spends most of his time attacking

me for my iphone and telling me how inferior it is to his Android. Sounds like an inferiority complex to me...

[musette_sf]

47. I've had an AT&T iPhone provided by my work

for over a year. I'm a longtime Verizon subscriber and wouldn't change back to AT&T for my personal use for anything.

So I lived without a personal iPhone.

When the Droids started coming out, I read all the reviews and buzz, and decided to get a Droid Incredible based on the reviews.

I just couldn't jibe with the Android OS.

I'm not a technophobe (far from it, actually), and I really, really wanted to like the Droid.

But it just wasn't (IMHO) as elegant, simple, and friendly as iPhone and iPhone OS.

The final straw was when I found out that I couldn't use the Droid as shipped to do remote access with my Mac laptop (also provided by my work) when traveling.

Verizon said "No can do, cannot tether or hotspot Mac laptop with Droid."

Mobile OS geek friends said Yeah, you can do it, but you've gotta delete the OS from the Droid as installed by the mobile provider, then re-install w/o Verizon stuff.

Ya know what? I've got better things to do with my time.

Now I have my Verizon iPhone with its happy mobile hotspot and all is well. Yeah, I wish the Verizon iPhone 4 actually multitasked, but I'm willing to live with that shortcoming till I absolutely, positively, have to have an iPhone 5.

YMMV, LS/MFT, all other disclaimers apply.

[Egnever]

56. Comparing apples to oranges

Tethering is fairly new tech and no Iphone before the iphone 4 did it natively so if you had an Iphone 3 you wouldnt have been able to do it without jailbreaking. Android phones were ahead of apple when it comes to tethering and it was because the droids could do it that apple had to get on board.

You are clearly entitled to use whatever phone you like, but your story is pretty silly, you are comparing a first generation droid to a 4th generation iphone.

[Tesha]

79. Actually, tethering required ATT's acceptance.

The technical capability existed before iPhone 4.

Tesha

[musette_sf]

87. I see that part about just not jibing with Android OS in the first place

escaped you? And that part about my preference for Apple OS, having used both?

Pretty silly, to completely miss that part.

As for the tether/not tether part that you chose to belabor - I researched the Incredible before I bought it, both on line and on a call to Verizon, and they confirmed that it could be used for laptop mobile Web access. The fact that my work iPhone did not support tethering was a point of consternation for me. As far as I'm concerned, if my mobile that I am personally paying for DOESN'T do that, it's a fancy overpriced brick with which to make phone calls, with some peripheral entertainment value. Verizon's Droid mobility app specifically did not support Mac OS. Couldn't make it work on virtual WinXP on the Mac either. I ditched the Droid and went back to the old Moto that worked a charm for platform-independent laptop mobile Web access, as clunky as it was, till VZ iPhone 4.

Repeat: Did not love Android UI to begin with. Would have been more disposed to enduring it if it had done what I wanted and needed for it to do. 25 years in computer support work beginning with MS-DOS 2.1. If it had been worth it to me in terms of time and aggro, I'd have stuck it out with the Droid. But IMHO iPhone SIMPLY WORKS BETTER. Android seemed to me to be clunky, reverse-engineered Mac OS. No compelling reason, no killer app, that made it worth it to me.

PS, never was an Apple user till OS X. I sold and supported NeXT back in the day and loved the OS. All it took for me to switch after 20 years of WinTel was OS X.

[Egnever]

54. Count me in as an apple hater

Cant stand the business model or the horseshit ad campaigns. I have no problem with people who wish to purchase apple products but there is no way you will ever convince me dollar for dollar they are any better than a pc.

[Paradoxical]

64. I went through 3 major computer manufacturers before I stopped at Apple.

They may be pricey, but they are worth every penny. I've saved a lot of money over the years not having to upgrade to a new computer every 12 months.

Which is funny because the Mac haters always complain about how Apple is always forcing owners to upgrade. Which is bullshit.

[Egnever]

105. A new computer every 12 months?

LOL

You must really suck with computers.

[musette_sf]

89. As a computer specialist of 25 years

with experience with WinTel OS from MS-DOS 2.1, Apple Mac System with Finder 5.0, and Apple II Prodos 8, I now consider Apple products to be an equal, if not better, value than any WinTel machine.

And the pain of downgrading a brand-new HP WinTel box purchased for the household from crap pre-installed Vista to XP was when I formally came to this conclusion. Especially the devices that had no XP support. And the fact that, unilke days of yore where you bought a box, then chose your OS and installed it, HP warranty is now VIOLATED when you downgrade the pre-installed OS, was the icing on the cake.

Kind of silly to be hung up about adverts.

[Egnever]

96. Well you got some time on me

And I will agree that vista was a huge FUBAR for microsoft, however as I said elsewhere Using HP as your baseline of expectations is silly. HP is the worst large computer manufacturer on the planet their failure rate is abysmal and the highest in the industry.

How you can make a statement that apple is an equal value as a tech is beyond me the hardware in equally priced machines isnt even close and Win7 is very good. Microsoft admitedly caused themselves problems with Vista and hardware manufacturers jumped a little too quickly in adopting it and dropping XP support. Something you should know as a tech though is that PC does not = windows, PC = generic box you put any OS you want on.

[musette_sf]

98. How you got from me saying "you bought a box, then chose your OS and installed it"

to "Something you should know as a tech though is that PC does not = windows, PC = generic box you put any OS you want on", is a leap so fantastic that it raises my concerns about your reading comprehension.

Also never said that HP was my "baseline of expectations", either. I just said I bought one. I've hands-on configured almost every kind of box under the sun, from an IBM PC, yes, PC, to the "fill the cart at Fry's" DIY special. I bought an HP at the time because it was on Costco.com and had the configuration I wanted. However, I do disagree with your gross mischaracterization of HP as the "worst". I don't think they are any "worse" in reliability than any other WinTel box. Yes, I said WinTel box, and I'm completely aware that not all non-Mac users are Windoze users. Not only that, but the Mac I'm writing this on right now is Intel, so I am aware that they now play in both sandboxes. I'm just using industry standards and terminology for the sake of the discussion.

You're just argumentative to be argumentative, and it's tedious.

[Egnever]

101. If I missread your post I apologize

"And the fact that, unilke days of yore where you bought a box, then chose your OS and installed it,"

I thought you were trying to say you cant do that anymore.

Having said that you may disagree with my Characterization but it is what it is.



You also said you find them to be a better value but as a tech myself I dont see how you can possibly claim that. heres just a quick comparison.

21.5-inch: 3.06GHz
3.06GHz Intel Core i3
1920-by-1080 resolution
4GB (two 2GB) memory
500GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 4670 with 256MB

$1,199.00

and heres a lenovo with a similar form factor but the hardware is way better for less bigger screen better processor better video bigger hard drive all starting at $100 less to get a comparable mac you have to spend 2k so you think the machine that cost 1k more is a better value?

lenovo IdeaCentre A700 (4024-5EU)
23" All-in-One
PC Intel Core i5 480M(2.66GHz)
4GB DDR3
1TB HDD Capacity
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650 (1GB)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Be the first to review this product...

In stock.
Now: $1,099.99

[Zanzoobar]

55. Back in the day...

Every swinging dick worked on cars and knew everything about them. It was an obsession driven by necessity.

Now, very few work on them, and most of the work is superficial.

Back in the other day, every swinging dick worked on computers and knew everything about them. It was another obsession driven by necessity.

Now they download software the same way gearheads add on stripes and hubcaps.

Meh. It's not worth the debate. It wasn't worth it back in the day, or the other day.

[Awsi Dooger]

57. Apple is the single greatest anything in the world

Let's see, I touted the stock after joining this message board 8 or 9 years ago, about the same time I found this lovely avatar. I'd already touted Apple stock on other sites for years.

If there was any certainty on the planet it was Steve Jobs branching out and taking advantage of exploding possibilities. I didn't always guess correctly where he was headed, but it didn't matter. At that point it was as pointless as trying to guess whether Tiger Woods would win by 3 or by 8.

The opposition on this site was priceless. A dependable lot swarmed into every Apple thread with the always brilliant, "Overpriced hardware, blah, blah, blah." I always rant against inept handicapping, and seldom has it been so comically displayed as on this topic. I won't mention any names but the most pathetic one dimensional offender had a user name with a froggy suffix.

The Clinton economy never ended if you're flush with Apple stock. Ho hum. Today the after-hour earnings report destroyed every estimate, and the stock spiked again.

The only problem: I've been overly lazy on my sports betting the past few years, thanks to Apple bottom line. Plenty of travel and golf, though. :rofl:

[krispos42]

59. Don't hate Apple, just don't want one, except for a new iPod

Mine's a battered, tattered Nano with a missing lock switch. :-)


But I've been using a PC for nearly a couple of decades now and don't feel like going back 18 years to re-learn Macs from scratch. At least with a PC I know what I'm doing, and where to poke around in Windows when I need to.

I generally don't like my machines doing too much for me directly. For example, I hate automatic HVAC controls in cars. I'll control my environment manually, thank you very much. And if I need to add a hard drive or disc drive, I can just crack open the case and stick it in there.

When using Windows, I turned set my PC so that I can see file extensions, hidden, and system files for the same reason. I don't need that important shit hidden.

And my experience with computers is that when it's trying to figure out what I want done, it gets it wrong. So I've stopped asking, and I kill the dialogue boxes that pop up and harass me because they're useless for me as well.

:shrug:

YMMV

[Lyric]

62. Someone admitting that they hate Apple and would never buy an iPhone is not the same thing

as saying, "I'm only buying Android because I hate Apple".

It's entirely possible to despise Apple AND think that Androids are superior phones on their own merits. In fact, someone could hate Apple BECAUSE they consider Apple products to be inferior, overpriced junk.

:shrug:

[Paradoxical]

66. As a long time user of both Microsoft and Apple products, I can tell you...

That the majority of Android owners I know are bitter over Apple for no apparent reason.

When you compare the prices for Android based smart phones to Apple Iphones, you will very quickly realize that the price difference is negligible. So then the debate comes down to software and reliability.

Both companies have pluses and downsides to ownership.

[JCMach1]

70. Yeah, but my Android pad was less than 1/2 the price of an iPad...

...and the Marketplace is free as well.

I use it as a book reader, audio and video player and also as an internet appliance. It works great for all of those things, plus you get !ANGRY BIRDS!

[Paradoxical]

71. Was your Android pad half the price because of a new service plan?

[IndyPragmatist]

72. mine wasnt....

Archos 101, its amazing. I paid just over $240 for it and I find it better than the ipad. Last week, I was at a conference with a few coworkers and we wanted to watch the Chelsea-Manchester United game. My buddy with the ipad couldn't watch the game on his because he didn't have flash, I had no trouble watching the game in near HD.

Don't get me wrong, I would love an Ipad if I was given it. They are pretty cool machines. But I got a tablet with a more functional design, with no contract, and more internet capabilities for half the price of the Ipad.

And I think the inferiority complex goes both ways. When an apple user can't do something that an android user can do, they use the same excuse...."that's not a practical use/technology". Well, watching a soccer game online was very practical to him until he realized that his ipad wasn't capable of doing so.

I wish Palm would make phone with capabilities of the Iphone or the top tier droids with the Palm OS on it. I still think that OS is by far the best OS for smartphones by far.

[Paradoxical]

73. You bought a tablet PC with half the storage capacity and less processing power.

It also appears as though an Archos 101 costs about 300 dollars.

A 16 gb ipad is 500 dollars. No contracts.

The only true downside is flash. And I absolutely agree that it's absurd that flash is not offered. But beyond that, the pricing for each device is really quite accurate. You paid 200 less than an Ipad. But you also got less than an Ipad.

[JCMach1]

78. I have two Mirco-SD and two USB slots which take Flash Drives

that elimnates any Memory problem... I just add what I need.

I love my little Chinese wonder... Will probably get my daughters the 7" version which costs about $75 for their birthdays.

[JCMach1]

76. Yeah there is still the Skype irritation with Android, but that's a Skype problem,

not an Android problem.

[JCMach1]

75. I use pay as you ugo in the UAE... internet service is 75AED

which is about $18... I just use my free WiFi at home and on campus.

[DirkGently]

95. Because the Apple product is always the criteria? Cheaper than iPhone? Faster than iPad?

No doubt some competing products are and will continue to be better in some ways. All the better for all of us. But it's a little weird seeing people shriek about the horrors of the iPhone while clutching a device designed to be exactly like it, except better in one way or another.

Or chuckle at the iPad's supposed shortcomings ... compared to the three dozen new products that wouldn't exist if Apple hadn't introduced the most successful new personal computing product since ... the iPhone.

Don't have to like Apple. But it's frankly irrelvent whether Jobs is an a-hole or the ads are supercilious, or whether you can load your own OS or whatever.

Everyone's following Apple. If Apple sucks, buying a follower of the suck -- whether it's better in some way or not -- doesn't make any more sense.

[PVnRT]

90. ...and there are Apple people who do the same thing

The geeks on both sides love to start shit-flinging fights over things most people couldn't give two shits about if they had an entire bottle of Ex-Lax.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

92. My phone has a calculator on it!

I'm sorry, as a troglodyte dumb-phone user, I figured I had to say something for the rest of us troglodyte dumb-phone users.

Oh yeah, and sometimes, I still use a--gasp!--landline. Shocking!

[WiffenPoof]

93. I Own Almost Every...

Apple product ever put out...I started using the Macintosh when it came out in 1984. I am probably the biggest MacAddict alive. In fact, I would probably be considered an Apple snob, never ever wanting to use Windows.

But guess what...I bought a Droid...Specfically the Samsung Captivate (Galaxy). I love it. I would put the Galaxy Captivate up against any iPhone. As much as I love Apple products, I can't imagine the iPhone doing anything that my Droid can't do. I bought it instead of an iPhone because I simply didn't want to spend $400.00.

---------

I find it interesting that so many are making statements similar to Apple wanting everyone to "conform" to their products. It is ironic that this is the current point of view when Apple based its entire marketing campaign on "being different." You know..."Think Different."

-PLA

[LanternWaste]

99. I love Coke and hate Pepsi...

I love Coke and hate Pepsi...

Loved how the "Rock-n-roller cola wars" of the eighties have gone high tech. But the premise is the same-- wonderful Madison Avenue branding and good marketing appealing to the target demographics.

[bluestate10]

100. Budding hatred that may get settled with a brie and goat cheese street fight. nt

[athenasatanjesus]

107. Why would I take advice from Commander Data?

He's not even from this century.

[toddaa]

111. I hate Apple... And Android

Unless it comes with source code that I can change and share, I want nothing to do with it.

You don't own Apple products. You purchase a license granting you limited rights to use Apple products, which can be revoked at anytime. Just like Android and all the other proprietary software vendors, with their make believe "intellectual property".

Fuck Apple and Google. There is absolutely nothing that separates them from MS, whose pretty much is a washed up has been at this point, anyway. At least MS is honest in their hatred of free software. The don't lie to me like other companies claiming to support "open source".

[Tesha]

113. How much source code do you change? And why? (NT)

[TNLib]

114. I'm not sure what that poll means but I think most people don't want to pay Apple prices

You can get the same functionality or better for less money. All you are paying for is the brand name.

Plus apple has a bit of a stigma for technical people ie (Mac users are dumb or non technical)