Is there anything wrong with driving while high on weed?

[Very_Boring_Name]

[gateley]

1. Hell, I get waylaid changing the radio stations! You don't want me high behind the wheel. And

I don't want others high behind THEIR wheels, either.

[Paradoxical]

2. Being high impairs judgement, slows reflexes.

Of course it's wrong to drive while high.

[Mosby]

11. Pot is a mild stimulant at first

so it doesn't affect reaction times just judgment.

[Paradoxical]

16. Stimulants can still slow motor skills.

[snooper2]

79. My reflexes high off my ass

Are better than most straight sober folks...

MIL hit a car just last week, just a little bump in the ass going probably 2 MPH...

Trying to stop at a red light. I'm like, really?


I will say trying to unclog a bowl when driving can be a little tricky :) I can only turn the wheel so far when driving with my knee.

[silverweb]

3. I'd imagine people can react differently.

I got an accidental contact high one time years ago and nearly drove off the road several times getting home. I hadn't even realized I was high until I found myself fixating on road-side signs and steering towards them. It was a very frightening experience.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Studies are mixed on the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Fcks7pla0

I'm inclined to vote no. Pot smokers tend to be aware of their impairment and hyperattentive to their current task. They are also less aggressive.

It's not unambiguous like alcohol.

[Cid_B]

47. Reminds me of...

... those folks who say they are really better drivers when they are drunk because they know they are drunk and are therefore paying "extra attention"

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. The question is how much pot yields the same impairment as .08 BAC.

Legally, everything less than that level of impairment is "OK".

[Cid_B]

62. Until you run into a parked car...

then the impairment can be held against you.

Also, in some cases, .01 BAC can shift fault to the alcohol impaired driver in an accident that they would otherwise be free and clear from.

IOW >.08 is an offense by itself but <.07 can be stacked onto other offenses.

[verges]

105. keyword: impairment!!! nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

109. Life is about varying degrees of impairment.

Deciding how much impairment is tolerable is the issue.

[onehandle]

5. Having too much sugar, caffeine, or nicotine in your system can impair your coordination.

So getting high or getting drunk are definite no-nos.

[HopeHoops]

6. Like Gallegher said (1980, 1981 - around then)....

"There's a car way down there. I'll pull out tomorrow."

[al_liberal]

7. Yeah, you'll drive really slowly and think you're hauling ass. n/t

[Synicus Maximus]

37. you and me

[JonLP24]

8. What is it

with you starting flame wars?

[madinmaryland]

12. Huh? If you want flame wars, let's talk about Pete Rose going into the HoF or

Barroid...

:D

[JonLP24]

13. Or "Farve haters are idiots"

:D

That pretty much ended BOSS's posting career.

[madinmaryland]

32. I didn't know it was that rant.

I just thought his wife put him into rehabilitation to dry out after all of his drunken rants at...

Belicheck, Northern College football teams, the Big Ten, forkboy, etc...

:D

I do miss his rants!

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rageneau]

19. Your facts will never outweigh the strong feelings of others.

The war on marijuana is waged by people who value 'truthiness' over truth. No amount of evidence will ever convince them that what they "feel" is not the way things actually are.

But thanks anyway for introducing a little science into the Mad Hatter's Tea Party that is the War on Drugs.

[pintobean]

26. I have strong feelings about stoner facts.

:rofl:

[robdogbucky]

85. No prob Rag, I fixed it all below and reposted without the offending emotive expressions n/t

[mike_c]

28. wish I could rec this response alone....

Hat's off to you for combating blind prejudice with data!

[Scout]

44. too bad it got deleted... n/t

[mike_c]

48. I've asked the administrators why....

I don't recall anything in that post more offensive than some data from research studies showing that cannabis does not impair driving much, if at all.

[pintobean]

49. I doubt many people got past the subject line.

[robdogbucky]

63. NORML's White Paper?

Marijuana Smoking Associated With Minimal Changes In Driving Performance, Study Finds
FRIDAY, 28 MAY 2010 13:00 PRESS RELEASE AUTOMOTIVE


"Hartford, CT—(ENEWSPF)—May 28, 2010 Subjects exhibit virtually identical psychomotor skills on a battery of driving simulator tests prior to and shortly after smoking marijuana, according to clinical trial data published in the March issue of the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs.

Investigators from Hartford Hospital in Connecticut and the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine assessed the simulated driving performance of 85 subjects in a double-blind, placebo controlled trial. Volunteers responded to various simulated events associated with automobile crash risk — such as avoiding a driver who was entering an intersection illegally, deciding to stop or go through a changing traffic light, responding to the presence of emergency vehicles, avoiding colliding with a dog who entered into traffic, and maintaining safe driving during a secondary (in-the-car) auditory distraction. Subjects performed the tests sober and then again 30 minutes after smoking a single marijuana cigarette containing either 2.9 percent THC or zero THC (placebo).

Investigators reported that volunteers performed virtually the same after smoking cannabis as they did sober and/or after consuming a placebo. "No differences were found during the baseline driving segment (and the) collision avoidance scenarios," authors reported.

Investigators did note, "Participants receiving active marijuana decreased their speed more so than those receiving placebo cigarette during (the) distracted section of the drive." Authors hypothesized that subjects' reduction in speed on this task suggested that they may have been compensating for perceived impairment. "o other changes in driving performance were found," researchers concluded..."

NORML's white paper assessing the impact of marijuana on psychomotor skills, "Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review," is available online at: http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459.
Source: norml.org

http://www.enewspf.com/index.php/latest-news/automotive/16666-marijuana-smoking-associated-with-minimal-changes-in-driving-performance-study-finds-

[robdogbucky]

66. So, how 'bout drunk driving and alcohol contributing to other deaths?

Just curious:

5.(annual causes of death by cause)

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,0001
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30




Does any of this mean anything to any of you?

There is another figure, something else unbelievable; Number of annual deaths due to hospital born infections? The below figures and article are from 2002:


Hospital Infection Deaths In Focus
Govt Estimates Of 90,000 In 2000 Said Much Lower Than Real Number

(AP) Deaths linked to hospital infections in 2000 were 14 percent higher than the federal government estimated, and nearly 75 percent of the deaths could have been prevented, a newspaper reported.

About 103,000 deaths were linked to hospital infections, 13,000 more than the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention calculated last year, according to a report in Sunday editions of the Chicago Tribune.

Many of the deaths were caused by unsanitary facilities, germ-laden instruments and unwashed hands, the newspaper reported. Infection rates are soaring nationally, exacerbated by hospital cutbacks and carelessness by doctors and nurses, according to the newspaper.

Hospital infections are now the fourth leading cause of death in the United States, behind heart disease, cancer and strokes, according to the CDC.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/20/health/main515755.shtml


So, can I conclude that being admitted to a hospital is much more risky than using cannabis, than auto deaths, homicides, drugs, alcohol, toxic agents, etc., etc., etc., etc., as shown by the annual death count.

Where is the outrage about hospital admissions?


Well?

[robdogbucky]

67. People would be amazed

if they knew how many motorists are "stoned," on cannabis at any given time while you are out driving. It is just not that big of a deal. Well, maybe to someone with schizophrenia in their genes, and someone somehow dosed them without their knowledge, and they were thrown into a spontaneous panic reaction of some sort, then I could see the remote possibility of their motor skills being impaired to affect their driving. Most likely that person would pull over and turn the car off.

On the other hand, I ponder the reality of known alcohol deaths annually, worldwide, as drinking is a much larger problem in some countries, especially as it relates to driving dangers, and I gotta ask myself, why don't people think?

There just are not a plethora of auto accidents caused by cannabis, in comparison to the known documented deaths by drinking.

Pot is neither as good as some claim, nor as bad as some here would have us to believe, just like those vested with economic interests, also cited above.

Really, does not anyone care about the truth and the damage and havoc that ongoing lies cause?

[robdogbucky]

70. Guess what is effective against hospital born infections?

Cannabis Compounds Reduce Multi-Drug Resistant Infections

Cannabis Science, Inc. (OTCBB: GFON). Dr. Robert Melamede, PhD., Director and Chief Science Officer, reported to the Board on the current state of research into the use of natural plant cannabinoids to reduce the spread of drug-resistant bacteria, including methicillin-resistant Staphyloccus aureus (MRSA), and the prospects for development of topical whole-cannabis treatments.

According to studies published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and by the Center for Disease Control in 2007, MRSA is responsible for more than 18,500 hospital-stay related deaths each year, and increased direct healthcare costs of as much as $9.7 billion.

Dr. Melamede stated, "Research into use of whole cannabis extracts and multi-cannabinoid compounds has provided the scientific rationale for medical marijuana's efficacy in treating some of the most troubling diseases mankind now faces, including infectious diseases such as the flu and HIV, autoimmune diseases such as ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease), multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and diabetes, neurological conditions such as Alzheimer's, stroke and brain injury, as well as numerous forms of cancer. One common element of these diseases is that patients often suffer extended hospital stays, risking development of various Staphyloccus infections including MRSA. A topical, whole-cannabis treatment for these infections is a functional complement to our cannabis extract-based lozenge."

Investigators at Italy's Universita del Piemonte Orientale and Britain's University of London, School of Pharmacy reported in the Journal of Natural Products that five cannabinoids - THC, CBD, CBG, CBC, and CBN - "showed potent antibacterial activity" and "exceptional" antibacterial activity against two epidemic MRSA occurring in UK hospitals. The authors concluded: "Although the use of cannabinoids as systemic antibacterial agents awaits rigorous clinical trials, … their topical application to reduce skin colonization by MRSA seems promising. … Cannabis sativa … represents an interesting source of antibacterial agents to address the problem of multidrug resistance in MRSA and other pathogenic bacteria."

More:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/147523.php


This is the Universita del Piemonte Orientale and Britain's University of London, School of Pharmacy, Journal of the American Medical Association and by the Center for Disease Control in 2007.

Isn't this fucking amazing?

Any comments on any of it from anyone?

Anything?

No one else cares about the truth? They would rather believe the lies and propaganda when these truths and actual facts are staring them in the face? Still want to tell me how "bad," cannabis is?

[pintobean]

77. A totally irrelevant reply to me and 3 replies to yourself?

Don't drive.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

94. that's the info that was deleted....

I cannot imagine how posting it in this thread violates DU rules.

[pintobean]

98. I think it was the insults that accompanied the info

that was the problem.

[Luminous Animal]

14. It's also wrong to drive high on many prescription drugs.

[MindPilot]

15. Only if I'm talking on my cell phone, getting a blow job, eating a Double Down

and chuggin' a 40 doing 65 in the school zone on my way to breast feed at the Olive Garden.

[eridani]

76. +10 n/t

[Incitatus]

104. Are you at least wearing your seatbelt?

[drokhole]

17. I defer to Mr. Carl Sagan...

"I have on a few occasions been forced to drive in heavy traffic when high. I've negotiated it with no difficult at all, though I did have some thoughts about the marvelous cherry-red color of traffic lights. I find that after the drive I'm not high at all. There are no flashes on the insides of my eyelids...I don't advocate driving when high on cannabis, but I can tell you from personal experience that it certainly can be done."

[ohheckyeah]

18. Very boring thread. n/t

[guitar man]

20. as long as you stay out of the left lane

it's it's fine :silly:

[aquart]

21. Why are we being asked this moronic question?

[Sonoman]

22. I have a couple of varietals that can make you catatonic.

Of the many varietals that I keep around, I have a couple of them that I just don't smoke. They make conversation very difficult and comprehension of the moment next to impossible. I'm talking two or three hits, too.

There is no way I would drive under the influence of those, even though I often drive after/while drinking. After all, I do live in Sonoma.

Sonoman

[DisgustipatedinCA]

103. I live in Sonoma too. And I have the Dr. recommendation

And I smoke every day. And there's nothing I've run into that will do what you describe in 2 or 3 hits. Some of the edibles are a different story, but not the smoke. I guess it's a tolerance thing. Oh...and about the driving thing: non-issue.

[Sonoman]

107. Come on by, you can try 'em out.

I have smoked every day since '66 and thought I had seen it all. But I have run into some Super Growers in Potter Valley who are messing with dangerous shit.

It is truly insane.

Sonoman

[flamingdem]

23. Though texting is worse, imo nt

[MineralMan]

24. Bogus poll, and you know the answer.

If you're smoking, stay at home and sit in your chair and eat. That is all.

Note: This comes from a daily smoker in the late 60s and 70s. I knew then not to drive when stoned. Learn it.

[Ignis]

25. Give it a rest, already.

:eyes:

[dionysus]

27. happy 4/20 to you to!

[slackmaster]

29. Definitely dangerous

There is no question in my mind.

[Imagevision]

30. If you have to, I prefer driving with others on weed not alcohol, when's the last time

you heard about someone killing another individual under the influence of... weed?

[EOTE]

86. I hear about it plenty, at least it is implied quite often.

Not that marijuana is actually the cause of these accidents, except in very rare occasions. But considering how statistics are compiled, references to "marijuana being found in the bloodstream" are fairly common. What they never say, however, is that marijuana stays in your blood for about a month or so, while its intoxicating effects last an hour or two. But if you smoked in the past month and get into an accident, you'll be lending to this extremely deceptive statistic.

[yawnmaster]

31. depends if everyone is driving on weed or just you. eom

[Cleita]

33. My doctor, who prescribes pot,

warns against driving and using machinery while medicating. It's not good.

[BlueJazz]

34. Depends on how many tokes one has had.

[lunatica]

35. I just hate driving for half an hour just to go one block

I'd rather not be stoned while driving. It takes hours and hours to get anywhere and not having anything to munch on is pure torture.

[Zywiec]

36. You can't say anything wrong about pot here, why try?

Far out, groovy....

:smoke:

:eyes:

[Codeine]

38. Being a stoner seems to be the only real litmus test here. nt

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

42. Temper, temper. nt

[devilgrrl]

43. I wasn't talking about you...

but now that you mention it.

[Zywiec]

45. Exactly, I thought stoners were chilled out? n/t

[ReggieVeggie]

56. you thought stupid

[pintobean]

52. No surprise there.

[devilgrrl]

57. Oh?

Pot, kettle, black. :hi:

[pintobean]

60. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=153947 :hi:

[devilgrrl]

64. Your point?

[snooper2]

80. Yeah you can, I got some BUNK mexican crap last week

thought I would conserve a little cash-
Seeds and Stems, Seeds and Stems....

Going to have to cough up the damn $20 a g hydro again

[Le Taz Hot]

82. Actually, we require that the

poster post facts. The OP has a jihad against pot and pot smokers and has NEVER backed it up with LEGITIMATE facts. Btw, I didn't use "far out" OR "groovy" even in the 60's -- that's shit that the TeeVee came up with and stupid people believed that that was actually the way we talked. I'd like to say "nice stereotyping" but it really isn't very original, is it?

[devilgrrl]

39. A lot safer than all the assholes on cellphones driving

:popcorn:

[ozone_man]

106. +1

Save some for me.
:popcorn:

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. YES!

[Forkboy]

46. Gee, another hit and run OP. Who could've seen that coming?

[houstonintc]

50. Probably unsafe

It is at least a nuisance for the people behind you while you go 8 miles an hour in a 35.:silly:

[craigmatic]

51. yes it slows down your reaction time.

[tritsofme]

53. I think it has a lot to do with tolerance.

Many years ago when I regularly partook, I would have no problem driving.

However the weed really does have a much greater effect on newbies, they shouldn't be driving, and probably wouldn't want to anyhow. Were I to partake today, I wouldn't be caught near the wheel.

Not a good sounding answer, but it is how I see it.

[JonLP24]

54. I agree

At first, it hit me hard but now the intoxicating effects are fairly benign.

[Rex]

55. High!? You mean like your judgment is impaired?

Have you ever smoked the stuff? Do you know what high is?

[paulk]

58. any drug that alters your perceptions

increases the chance of mishap...

my um... subjective opinion

[astral]

59. I think that SOME people might be impaired for driving while smoking pot

but not everyone. I also believe some people might be impaired for driving after having too many cups of coffee, but not all of us.

It is not illegal to drive after having ***some*** alcohol, just so long as you didn't have too much, but that depends on your size, your tolerance, and even if you are fine, your legal blood-alcohol level.

Are people impaired after one hit of pot? Two hits? Three?

Oh, it depends on what kind of hit? On the person's size? Whether or not they have also had a drink or three --- or too many cups of coffee?

One drink is okay but one hit isn't?

Or does it depend on how long ago you had a hit . . . or two . . . . or three?

[GoneOffShore]

65. Can't vote - too stoned - but not driving.

[bigwillq]

68. I always drove slower and more cautious.

Not sure if that made it safer though.

[kwassa]

69. Whaaat dooeeesss the yellloww liiight meannnn????

the stoner driving test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvn-tBeLpCk

[The Midway Rebel]

71. No, but it takes practice.

Also helps if you start toking and driving when you are teenager and then toke and drive damn near everyday for 30 years. Start slow with a something small like a lawn tractor and work your way up. If the cops pull you over for driving while high, you tell them the Midway Rebel told you it was OK. S' all good.

[TorchTheWitch]

72. pot effects people differently and so does different types/amounts

Some pot I smoked a great deal of and barely got a buzz, other pot I smoked I was so fucking stoned from just a couple of hits I swear I was not on this planet. There's no way of knowing from one plant to the next or from one joint to the next how it's going to effect you since there's no real way of knowing... it's not like alcohol or medicine where stength is regulated and knowable.

Seeing as it is currently illegal to consume, that reason alone makes it wrong to drive while under the influence of it. It is wrong to drive while impaired, and pot is impairing... sometimes and for certain people extremely impairing. I drove once while stoned and absolutely knew I was impaired and shouldn't have been driving. I was scared shitless the whole time I was behind the wheel and never did it again nor would I ever do it again though I haven't smoked pot since I was in high school and have no desire to.

[Throd]

73. Shouldn't drive high on anything.

[fujiyama]

74. It is unsafe driving under the influence of any drug

whether it's legal or illegal. Of course, the influence of some drugs is much worse than others (i.e. alcohol compared to weed)

Of course this includes prescription drugs as well as even OTC meds.

As it is, there are too many crazy, distracted, and just plain awful drivers on the road. I think people should get stoned and drunk in the safety and comfort of their homes. Besides I would figure driving while high would make me uncomfortable and would just make me paranoid as hell. It would defeat the whole point.

[eridani]

75. The driver doing 35mph on a freeway when it isn't rush hour would be the one on weed

Maybe not as dangerous as the drunk doing 90, but still not safe.

[JackRiddler]

78. Weed, no way. Marijuana, maybe. Pot, definitely not.

[ReggieVeggie]

88. tell it brother!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EOTE]

84. Actually, there's something quite good about it.

As pot smokers have been proven to be more cautious than their sober counterparts. Top Gear did a similar test a few years back. Of course, there's no real reason for me to post this, because this is just another hit and run like you did yesterday. Are you so incredibly insecure in your beliefs that you can't even attempt to defend them?

[RainDog]

87. just as with alcohol consumption...

there can be legal limits that are used if someone DEMONSTRATES impairment.

someone can have a glass of wine with a meal and then drive a way with no impairment. the same can be true of someone who ingests cannabis - the effects have at least two levels of experience - the initial high, within seconds after partaking through vaporizing, etc. or a high that begins after digestion if someone is eating cannabis - about 30 minutes later.

after two hours, give or take, most people who vaporized cannabis are not high - are not experiencing the effects of cannabis in such a way that their perceptions are significantly altered - in the same way that someone who drinks two glasses of wine is not impaired two hours afterwards, for instance (just using these as average examples, tho everyone's experience with any substance depends upon individual factors.)

there is a breath test that can determine if someone is within a range of active THC in the body that would, on avg., indicate possible impairment. the urine tests are not an accurate indication of anything, other than whether someone has ingested cannabis within a month or so.

so, if someone drives in such a way to indicate they might be a hazard to others on the road... just as with alcohol... there are ways to determine if cannabis may be a problem for them while driving - tho, of course, alcohol should be part of this same testing for impairment.

this seems like a reasonable way for responsible adults to deal with their lives and the fact that people sometimes like to have a glass of wine or a toke.

[Wait Wut]

89. Why are they driving?

Pizza places deliver and most have an extensive menu including desserts and beverages. With the addition of Netflix having that immediate download thingy and the interent, there is no reason for a stoner to leave their home. Except to work, at which time I would "highly" recommend putting the pipe down so you can work towards that promotion. How else can you afford pizza deliveries, Netflix and premium smoke?

[kentuck]

90. Especially if you're in the 6-foot circle...

:-)

[dkofos]

91. You're going to damn slow

[Obamanaut]

92. I buy milk in a box. nt

[tekisui]

93. Depends on the person, tolerance and experience.

[Blue_In_AK]

95. I've done it many times.

The only accident I've had in my life was when I was stone cold sober, and I've been driving for almost 50 years. I guess for me, it's safer to drive high.

[LanternWaste]

96. I imagine that context is usually rather important in almost any query...

I imagine that context is usually rather important in almost any query-- unless of course one has an absolute and dogmatic position which would be weakened by context... :shrug:

But your question does beg the quite relevant and critical question:

"Is there anything wrong with posting while being both absurdly dumb and insanely combative?"

[raging_moderate]

97. this is a big reason I don't yet support legalization

I'm an ED physician, and have had several conversations with state troopers etc. about this. Until there is an accurate "breathalizer" test for THC (finger stick perhaps?) it's pretty hard for me to support legalization, as it absolutely does impair driving if you smoke enough (at least for most). Of course so do many other drugs we can't easily test for. Many of the troopers wish that pot infractions were handled like speeding tickets by the way..... get caught, pay a fine (at least as long as it's illegal). After countless hours and dollars going thru the present legal system, that is the usual result anyway.

[fascisthunter]

99. Let me Smoke a Blunt, Take a Cruise...

and get back to you.

[Kurovski]

100. I am twelve and what is this?

Happy 420!

[JuniperLea]

101. I'm sure there are thousands on the road stoned right now...

And legalizing isn't going to increase that number.

[Canuckistanian]

102. I can never concentrate on the road when I'm laughing too much

Usually over some stupid radio commercial about talking dogs.

[Taverner]

108. It can be very dangerous

But, unlike alcohol, it does not inherently impair the driver

The problem is the user - if they have a lot of paranoia when they get high, then definitely don't drive

Also, right after - no matter one's tolerance

I would wait 1 hour between toke and drive

[Xithras]

110. Considering that I've called the police on people driving under the influence...

I think that about sums up my position on the issue. I've lost too many friends to people who thought they were "OK to drive", and I've taken the zero tolerance "asshole" position on it. Whether booze or buds, if you climb behind the wheel after doing it, I'm going to do my damnest to send you to jail.

[Better Believe It]

111. It's as bad as driving while drunk or using your cell phone to talk or text.

[Zorra]

112. No! I was always driving really slow every time I had an accident when

driving baked.