Self-righteous smoker stabs person in face when reminded of the law

[uppityperson]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_pen_attack
A New Jersey woman was stabbed in the face with a pen on a New York City subway train after she tried to stop a man from lighting a cigarette.

The assault occurred on a crowded No. 3 train near the Chambers Street station during Tuesday's morning rush.

Witnesses told the Daily News and the New York Post that an argument quickly escalated when Evelyn Seeger asked the man not to smoke. The witnesses say two riders were trying to restrain the man when he pulled out a pen and slashed Seeger's face.

Seeger, of Nutley, N.J., was treated at a hospital and released. Police charged the man with felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon.

[Arugula Latte]

1. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[Logical]

2. Thank you!! FInally the real story! n-t

[sabrina 1]

61. This is NOT the real story. The Daily Mail as always

has just about everything wrong. The man eg, was NOT smoking a cigarette. The Daily Mail is a rag. Totally not credible.

From someone who was actually there and who held the man down and gave a statement to the police:

Subway Subculture

I was on this train and was one of the samaritans who held this guy down until the cops arrived. Here's some more background, which the article didn't report.

- The guy started rolling a blunt (it wasn't a cigarette, not that it truly matters), and the argument started when he tried to light it. The argument went on and was pretty aggressive (verbally) for about a minute before he swung at her and hit her with the pencil on the forehead.

- Pretty quickly after this a few witnesses pounced on the guy and pinned him in the corner of the car. He was fighting back pretty strongly, and at one point he got his hand into his pocket and grabbed a (folding) knife.

He was charged with possession of Marijuana, not with lighting up a cigarette. This OP should edit to add a correction.

[uppityperson]

62. Again, a link to a blog post isn't a reputable source. Got another?

[uppityperson]

63. pssst, my OP link is not the Daily Mail. It's AP via yahoo news.

Police charged the man with felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

4. This is NOT meant as a call out, simply posting a story about criminals and over reactions

[roguevalley]

5. addictions are hell but this addiction killed half my family. its an

addiction, a choice like heroin and frankly I don't want it around me. I have asthma. I chose not to smoke. Yet people chose to exhale in my presence. Five hundred years we have suffered the behavior of smokers. Now they can either take care, obey the law or quit or suffer the anger of their victims.

[Lance_Boyle]

6. Cannabis, which is what the guy was smoking, is not physically addictive. n/t

[uppityperson]

8. Tobacco, which he also was smoking, is.

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/nation/nj-woman-slashed-for-scolding-nyc-subway-smoker
.According to the New York Post, Cordero had tried to light a blunt — a cigar refilled with tobacco and marijuana, a witness said.

[Lance_Boyle]

10. Never seen a blunt stuffed with a tobacco/weed mix. Seems oddly European.

Of course, the wrapper is still tobacco.

[JonLP24]

14. Don't know anyone that rolls tobacco

into a blunt with cannabis. Sounds gross.

[joeybee12]

28. Nicotene, which those on DU who were defending this guy, smoke...

is.

[wtbymark]

7. The real story was a homeless guy with a blunt

had been arrested numerous times on the subway before. He also recieved a ticket for possesion.
Posted here yesterday, sorry, no link

[Lorien]

80. It killed both of my grandparents and is now killing my father. He has 2-4 months

left to live (esophageal cancer). He was a two pack a day man for decades, and he still denies that it was smoking that has made him sick (my family is not prone to cancers). I'm going to miss my Papa terribly, and I will despise the tobacco lobby for what they have done to my family until my dying day. :cry:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joeybee12]

27. Hey, apparently you don't bother to read....

the post that this OP is calling out is all the cigarette smokers here at DU outraged that someone isn't allowed to smoke everywhere...nicotene is the addiction, those who smoke are addicts...they can't give it up.

[walldude]

71. First of all I was talking to you not the OP..

Second of all no cigarettes were involves in this incident so I have no idea why that is even an issue. Third of all it is a tiny minority of smokers who are assholes, just like the tiny minority of non smokers who are assholes.

Lastly I'd much rather be an addict who keeps his habit away from other people than an asshole who claims that "all the smokers at DU are outraged" to make a point about how righteous they are because they don't smoke.

And I read just fine thank you. Maybe it's you who doesn't know the difference between tobacco and pot who should learn to read.

I don't disagree that this guy is an asshole and gets what he deserves. I also know that he certainly does not represent all or even most smokers. But hey don't let that get in the way of a good bullshit rant.

[Rage for Order]

9. Had she simply "reminded him of the law" she likely would not have been attacked

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378744/Homeless-man-stabbed-woman-face-pen-New-York-subway.html

According to witnesses Cordero was attempting to light a cigarette (it was actually a joint) on the busy downtown train just before it reached Chambers Street station when Mrs Seeger told him to stop.

But the argument quickly escalated. Mrs Seeger began yelling as Cordero allegedly produced a huge lighter and began waving a high flame in front of her face. She tried to knock the lighter out of his hand before two men on the train intervened.

Ronethea Williams, one of the horrified commuters who witnessed the alleged attack, told the New York Daily News: 'I looked up and the woman had blood gushing from her face. Someone yelled, "he stabbed her in the eye!'

She told the Daily News: 'I saw the flame from the lighter - it was a few inches high. It was pretty hardcore.' The 27-year-old claimed: 'She was in his face and he's in her face He was lighting the flame in her face, taunting her with the flame, and she was yelling "stop it!"


The woman did not deserve to be attacked, and the man who attacked her should go to jail. He also has no business smoking cigarettes or pot on the subway. Had she simply told him not to smoke and, after he ignored her, left it at that she would not have been injured. Her decision to escalate the conflict to a shouting match was a very poor decision. No, she did not deserve to get stabbed with a pen.

[uppityperson]

12. Yelling STOP when he waved a flame in her face, pushing it away=a "poor decision to escalate it"?

Defending herself is a "poor decision" and choosing to escalate it? Are you serious?

http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/nation/nj-woman-slashed-for-scolding-nyc-subway-smoker
According to the New York Post, Cordero had tried to light a blunt — a cigar refilled with tobacco and marijuana, a witness said.

[Rage for Order]

18. The articles leave a good bit out

The witness they quote in the newspapers, Ronethea Williams, has a blog and she provides more details there. She says that the argument went on for a while before the lighter incident occurred.

http://liferonethea.blogspot.com/2011/04/craziest-train-ride-ever.html

I rode the train earlier than usual today in an attempt to get to work earlier than usual. This train ride was definitely not the usual. Here's what happened:

I'm riding the train, reading my April Elle and still smirking from the cutie who kept making eyes before just getting off the train. (Super random interjection, but why didn't he just say something? I definitely caught him staring 3+times. This isn't the L train...no missed connections here buddy. OK. This is rude. This story is bigger than this. /digression)

We continue riding and I hear a commotion. A woman is yelling at a guy, but I'm not sure what it's about. I chalk it up to stressed out New Yorkers and continue reading about Gwen Stefani & No Doubt's reunion assuming they would soon realize they were being silly and stop. They don't. The woman gets louder and says "Don't light that thing on the train!" I look over and see that the guy she's yelling at has a lighter and the flames seem larger than normal. It wasn't one of those $.99 cents Bic lighters, it was pretty hardcore. Congratulations kids, I'm now alarmed. The woman continues to tell the guy to stop and tries to knock the lighter from his hand and things get physical. The entire train is looking at this go down and people are starting to get a little frantic. The man tells the woman "I will f*cking kill you". The woman yells at the man "I will f*cking kill YOU!!" They are pushing one another. Another woman steps in to help.

OK. STOP.

This is where I get mad. Like, livid. I don't care if this is a feminist society and we're in the middle of a freaking bra-burning campfire. If a man is getting physical with a woman, why in the hell are men just standing around looking?!? My brain couldn't process this. I finally literally yell out "Why aren't any of you men helping?!?" At that point, 2 men run over to try to help restrain the guy. For context, this guy is probably 5'7 150lbs...I could probably take him. I'm in the middle of the car trying to calm people down and I look over and see blood gushing from the woman's face. While she was restraining the guy in the corner, he took out his knife (edit: according to reports it was a pen) and SLASHED her face - from her temple to her nose. Yes. I'm riding the train to work...and someone has just gotten stabbed in the face. Twilight-freaking-zone. The craziest part is that the woman continues to try to get the knife (pen) from the guy and beats his hand until he drops it. She's obviously running on adrenaline. We are still between 14th & Chambers.

People are freaking out. 2 of us step up. 1 guy stops the people from pulling the emergency lever. That will only make the situation worst. I send someone to the conductor so he can call the police. The train starts to slow down though we are 2 stations away in an attempt to give the cops time to get to the station. The guy is now being held up by 5 guys in the corner. The woman is sitting on the train bench with blood gushing from her face and I'm standing there trying to calm people down. People are looking at me for instructions on what to do next, but what could we do?!

I started praying. Out loud. I prayed for that woman's health, her face and her family. I prayed that we were all safe. Amen.

[sabrina 1]

35. I have seen no reports from eyewitnesses that he was

waving it in her face. She yelled at him when she saw him start to light up, telling him 'don't light that up'. And she refused to back down when it was clear he was not a stable individual, making it necessary for others to put themselves in harms way.

The woman hopefully learned a lesson, as everyone else apparently learned a long time ago since only she decided to try to enforce the law.

[uppityperson]

38. here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=935548&mesg_id=935666

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378744/Homeless-man-stabbed-woman-face-pen-New-York-subway.html
Mrs Seeger began yelling as Cordero allegedly produced a huge lighter and began waving a high flame in front of her face. She tried to knock the lighter out of his hand before two men on the train intervened.

[sabrina 1]

54. That is from the Daily Mail! I've already told you

that they do not have the facts. And your reliance on them is why you don't have the facts either.

Eyewitnesses say he was rolling his joint. No one said anything, then he took out a lighter and flicked it on, unaware at this point, of this woman at all. SHE then yelled at him 'do not light that'. That is when the altercation began.

I will say it one more time, the Daily Mail is a rag, and you are misleading people by using it as a source.

[uppityperson]

59. a blog is not a reputable source either. As I've already told you. Yet you keep quoting it

as if it were The Truth. Link to reputable source please and I'll be happy to go read it.

[sabrina 1]

64. You posted a blog claiming it was credible.

Hilarious, you clearly do not want this story to be what it is. The guy gave a statement to the police.

You have an agenda and as a result, have no interest in anything that interferes with what you WANT to believe.

I'll leave you to your Daily Mail 'facts'. Everyone knows by now though, that this was NOT about cigarettes, the guy was charged with possession of marijuana. You should edit your OP, but that's for you to decide.

[uppityperson]

68. I posted an article from AP. YOU posted a blog.

My link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_pen_attack
Your link: http://www.subwaysubculture.blogspot.com/

Mine is to a yahoo news story from AP, yours to blogspot.

Are you confusing us?

[sabrina 1]

69. I am talking about in the comments.

you posted a link to the blogger in a comment above.

The AP story is also incorrect. He was not smoking a cigarette. I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated. All these commercial news orgs publish the 'memo' handed out to the 'pool'. And as a result, incorrect information continues to be repeated.

According to NY news papers who actually did speak to the police and to eyewitnesses he was charged with possession of marijuana as well as felony assault and possession of a weapon.

Anyhow, there are more important things going on right now. This is not a cigarette story no matter how much some people want it to be, sorry.

[uppityperson]

70. I agree, it is not a cigarette story.

I used the AP link as did the other topic about this. It isn't about cigarettes. He was smoking, but not a cigarette.

[uppityperson]

15. How is waving a big flame in her face "ignored her"? How is pushing the flame away escalating?

[Exultant Democracy]

17. Monday morning quarter back. She never did anything wrong and was violently assaulted.

Perhaps she would make some different choices in retrospect, but we can't blame the victim for standing up for her right not to be smoked on in a small enclosed area.

[Rage for Order]

19. If it's a crime report it to the authorities and let them handle it

People who attempt to stop a crime in progress assume a certain degree of risk. Would you try to stop a shoplifter yourself in a department store? How about a bank robbery? This doesn't mean she deserved to be assaulted, but people should choose their battles wisely.

[uppityperson]

21. Now you equate asking someone to stop smoking with stopping a bank robbery.

incredible

[Rage for Order]

25. LOL. Yes, that's exactly what I did

And here I thought I had equated it to stopping ANY crime in progress and had simply used shoplifting and bank robbery as 2 off-the-cuff examples.


edit to add: By all accounts, she did not "ask" him not to smoke, and she didn't "remind" him of the law. She got in his face and yelled at him. Poor decision.

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

44. e.g., if someone is abducting your daughter or breaking into your house?

"If it's a crime report it to the authorities and let them handle it..."

e.g., if someone is abducting your daughter or breaking into your house? Or are we compelled to admit that your absolutism leaves little room for context?

[Rage for Order]

46. Yes, those are crimes

In my post I said, "People who attempt to stop a crime in progress assume a certain degree of risk." The severity of the crime in progress determines the level of risk people are willing to accept. If someone is breaking into my home or abducting a loved one I will be willing to accept a much greater level of risk than if I see someone jaywalking or smoking in public.

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

48. And for the simple crime of lighting up you'd expect much lower level of risk?

[Rage for Order]

53. Yes, a lower level of risk but not zero risk

What he did was wrong. The woman made some bad decisions. Hopefully he goes to jail (he does have 56 prior arrests) and she learns a valuable life lesson that prevents her from getting herself into a similar situation in the future.

[joeybee12]

29. It apparently escalated because he started threatening her...dude,

your addiction is serious...get help.

[Rage for Order]

30. He's a homeless guy who smokes pot on the subway

Earth to lady who got stabbed with the pen: homeless people who are willing to smoke pot on the subway during the morning commute are better left to their own devices unless they are directly threatening you with physical harm.

And while I do appreciate your concern for my health, I don't smoke. I quit on March 3, 2009. Maybe you were speaking of a different presumed addiction?

[uppityperson]

31. Regarding "homeless people". Do they wear a sign? Are they particularly prone to violence?

You seem to be implying that with "homeless people who are willing to smoke pot on the subway during the morning commute are better left to their own devices unless they are directly threatening you with physical harm."

If someone is not homeless, is it ok to approach them? What sort of sign do "homeless people" wear?

[Rage for Order]

32. Their appearance is usually unkempt and/or disheveled n/t

[uppityperson]

33. Wow. You can tell if a person is homeless because they are unkempt &/or disheveled. People WITH home

aren't.

Perhaps you should look at that opinion again.

[Rage for Order]

50. I did not say that, you did.

You asked me what sort of sign homeless people wear; how can we tell if they are homeless? I said, "Their appearance is usually unkempt and/or disheveled." I did not say their appearance is always unkempt and/or disheveled, nor did I say that people whose appearance is unkempt and/or disheveled are always homeless.

When assessing a situation, one needs to take into account many factors. Common sense tells us that if someone is willing to roll a joint and light it on the New York subway during rush hour then they probably don't care about other laws and social norms. Therefore, it is not wise to confront them about their law-breaking ways and demand they stop smoking. To assume you can do so risk-free is unrealistic. However, to each their own. If someone wants to be the smoking police on the New York subway more power to them.

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

45. Much like my non-homeless co-workers.

"Their appearance is usually unkempt and/or disheveled..."

Much like my non-homeless co-workers. I suppose I'd better not ask them to abide by office policy else I get stabbed with a pen...

[uppityperson]

47. This guy must be homeless then...

[bobbolink]

72. Kinda like the physicists where I grew up... their minds were so much on the

nuclear weapons they were building, the thought of actually GROOMING never occured to them.

Maybe they, too, were homeless???

Who knew......

[uppityperson]

74. Like this guy. Definitely homeless.

[bobbolink]

77. Absolutely! Looks violent and very scary, too!

Ignorance and certitude is a dangerous mix.

Its what we rag on the RW about.

[LanternWaste]

41. I imagine when we are forced to use so many qualifiers to predicate the eventual...

I imagine when we are forced to use so many qualifiers to predicate the eventual, "however she was wrong to do such and such", we may be forced to call it rationalizing.

[Rage for Order]

60. I'm not rationalizing anything

I'm not defending the pot smoker; he was completely in the wrong. I am simply stating that the woman made a bad decision given the information she had to go on.

I felt the qualifiers were necessary to satiate those who would mistake my criticism of the woman's lack of common sense for approval of the man's actions.

[leftstreet]

11. Thak Godz there were no Secondhand Stabbings n/t

[uppityperson]

16. Once everyone has a pen....nt

[snagglepuss]

20. I have no sympathy. The woman is one of the totally clueless who pick fights with people

rational people would avoid. She sounds like someone who is always looking for someone to dominate and who better for that than a homeless person. That is not to say the guy isn't a ignorant pig but there are better ways to handle the situation but the rational ways to handle the situation wouldn't be as emotionally gratifying.

[SidDithers]

22. +1...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[Tx4obama]

23. Bottom line is SHE physically assaulted him first. n/t

[uppityperson]

26. Not according to this story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378744/Homeless-man-stabbed-woman-face-pen-New-York-subway.html

[sabrina 1]

39. The Daily Mail is a rag, and as usual, according to eyewitnesses

they got the story wrong. You need a better source than the Daily Mail if it's facts you are looking for. They eg, claim he was lighting up a cigarette. I think by now everyone knows that was not the case.

[uppityperson]

40. Witness who says he had a knife when every other story says a pen? Or this witness?

Miss Williams, who wrote about the incident on her blog, said it was 'the craziest train ride I've ever had.'
She told the Daily News: 'I saw the flame from the lighter - it was a few inches high. It was pretty hardcore.'
The 27-year-old claimed: 'She was in his face and he's in her face He was lighting the flame in her face, taunting her with the flame, and she was yelling "stop it!"

[sabrina 1]

49. I think you should go and read the facts about this story.

You just posted an OP that is not factual, and now you appear to know even less about the story than I thought.

He HAD a pen, he was restrained after attacking her with the PEN. Then, he tried to pull a knife out of his pocket, but it was taken from him.

But then, you are depending on the Daily Mail for your 'facts' which explains why you are unaware of what actually happened.

This eyewitness blames the woman also. He was among those who restrained the man:

Subway Subculture

The homeless guy was definitely crazy and the aggressor here, but the lady also was - in my opinion, and with hindsight - acting out of hand. It was pretty clear watching this develop that neither of them was going to step down, and that this guy was going to go after her. I can't stand people smoking or being rude on the train, but she definitely needlessly put herself (and others) at risk.

It all happened quickly and I jumped in when the fight broke out, but afterwards I thought that if the guy got to his knife (or worse) more quickly, it could have been a real bad situation.

There are worse things than people smoking on the train, and I walked away a bit later very upset at the lady.

Seems like they both have some problems. And next time you post an OP, do everyone a favor and do a little research first. And if I were you, I would avoid using the Daily Mail as a source.

[uppityperson]

51. I used AP for OP source. Thank you for your concern and snark

I haven't had my full ration of snark yet today.

The full facts aren't out yet. Witnesses vary in what they saw and in how they wrote up what they did. News articles also vary and yes, I have read several.

[uppityperson]

66. OP linked to AP, not Daily Mail. Fwiw. I am using AP as a source.

[sabrina 1]

76. AP got it wrong. They are all using

the same wrong report. None of them do independent reporting, they are a pool and simply publish the pool report. Your OP is wrong, the incident had nothing to do with cigarettes, you should correct it.

[sabrina 1]

55. You STILL don't have the story straight. Stop reading the

Daily Mail.

ALL eyewitnesses say he had a pen with which he attacked her.

After being restrained, eyewitnesses say he reached into his pocket and pulled out a knife. He didn't get to use it as it was taken away from him.

IF you had read a bit more, you too would have had those facts.

That woman you linked to, who was there, did not see the beginning of the altercation as SHE HERSELF SAYS. The man was NOT waving the lighter in her face until AFTER the altercation began. That blogger heard the commotion and was a witness only to what happened AFTER the altercation was already underway.

Other eyewitnesses who saw the whole thing from the beginning, can be found IF it is facts you are looking for. I am tired of straightening out your distortions of what actually happened. Do some research of your own, IF it's facts you want, and not your own version of what happened.

[uppityperson]

58. Link to reputable source regarding the knife, NOT a blog. Thank you.

If you wish to "straightening out your distortions of what actually happened", then please give me a link to a reputable source. And no, a blog doesn't cut it.

[uppityperson]

65. Is Associated Press in OP also a rag or a better source?

[Lorien]

81. It doesn't surprise me that you believe that

and you are wrong.

[snooper2]

24. damn pot smokers

always needing to go around and stab people in the face with a fucking pen...

[sabrina 1]

34. Unrec'd because the man was not a 'smoker'.

He was NOT lighting a cigarette, he was smoking weed. The linked article is not correct.

The story was more about what to do when you see someone who clearly has problems doing something illegal on the subway, or what not to do. The following is from an eyewitness who helped hold the man until the cops were able to arrest him:

Subway Subculture

While we were holding him, it was pretty clear that the guy had a lot of problems. (If that was unclear previously.)

The homeless guy was definitely crazy and the aggressor here, but the lady also was - in my opinion, and with hindsight - acting out of hand. It was pretty clear watching this develop that neither of them was going to step down, and that this guy was going to go after her. I can't stand people smoking or being rude on the train, but she definitely needlessly put herself (and others) at risk.

It all happened quickly and I jumped in when the fight broke out, but afterwards I thought that if the guy got to his knife (or worse) more quickly, it could have been a real bad situation. There are worse things than people smoking on the train, and I walked away a bit later very upset at the lady.

People were put in danger because this woman made a foolish decision and then refused to back down, according to other witnesses. And as it turns out, the man had a knife. Other people could have been hurt. The best thing to have done would have been to ignore him as he was clearly not someone who was likely to care about laws which should have been obvious.

If she was that bothered by what he was doing, she should have reported it and gone about her business. Fortunately the others were able to take the knife away from him before anyone else got hurt.

[uppityperson]

36. Every article says he had a pen and yes, he was smoking, was a smoker.

Seems to me that if you smoke you are a smoker whether or not you smoke a pipe, cigarettes, rolled tobacco, pipe, marijuana, or a blunt (hollowed cigar with pot in it). He was smoking, is a smoker.

Every other article says he had a pen, not a knife. Perhaps if he hadn't shoved his big flaming lighter in her face, she might not have shoved it away? I don't understand how she gets the blame for escalating this when she's trying to protect herself?

I also don't see how you can say "your article is wrong and mine is right", though I am doing the same thing. Looks like all the information hasn't come out yet.

[sabrina 1]

43. Your article falsely states that he was smoking a cigarette.

He was not. Nothing new for the Daily Mail though, to not bother with facts.

It's clear that people have an agenda and hoped to use this story for that purpose.

What is far more important is that this woman nearly got a lot of other people hurt because of her own bad judgement. As one of those who helped restrain the man said afterwards.

It's really sad to see the reaction to this story. It's clear that those attempting to use it to go after those who they have designated as 'the other', do not care one bit about other people.

If you've ever been on a NY subway when someone who, as the eyewitness said 'obviously had problems' does something odd, the first thing you do is 'think'! What is the best thing to do before taking action, to make sure that your own personal anger doesn't get other people hurt.

This man had a knife, she should have thought before she risked other people's safety, as one of those who stopped the man, has said.

Everything isn't about your own particular issue even if to you, it is the only issue in the world.

For the record, I don't drink or smoke, but I am truly sick of the bullying attitude of those who seem to think they are superior in some way, for whatever reason.

[uppityperson]

57. Link to where he "had a knife"? That blog says "if the guy got to his knife", no news article

says he had a knife. Only place that says he had a knife is that blog. Every article says he had a pen. Do you have a link to a reputable source and no, a blog isn't.

[uppityperson]

67. However, my source is NOT the Daily Mail but AP.

"Nothing new for the Daily Mail though, to not bother with facts. " Except is wasn't "daily mail".

Which has nothing about a knife. AP. See? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_pen_attack

[sabrina 1]

83. The AP is using the same pool report as all the other sources

and they got it wrong.

Look, it's obvious you wanted to make a point about smokers. Clearly you see them as insane or sub-human or whatever, and the initial incorrect reports in the AP and elsewhere, seemed to verify your pre-conceived ideas.

But now the facts have been revealed, the guy did not have a cigarette, as those eroneous reports stated. So this story no longer serves your purpose. You should correct that error, but that's up to you.

[uppityperson]

84. If that is what you believe about my motives and beliefs, you are wrong. eom

[uppityperson]

85. If you wish to believe blogspot over media report, be my guest. I don't. If you have another legitim

legitimate source proving your point, NOT a blogspot blog, please post it and I will read it. Can you do that or will you now continue to chide me of how I am wrong and scold me for using the Daily Mail?

If you have a legitimate source, please share it.

The guy was smoking. Not a cigarette, but he was smoking.

[Rex]

37. I don't know who was morer stupidiest, him or her.

[Initech]

42. Remember the Bill Hicks bit?

"I'm Bill Hicks and I'm dead now because of cigarettes. It wasn't the smoke - a bunch of non smokers kicked the shit out of me on the street! I tried to run, they heard me wheezing. Dont smoke."

[Tx4obama]

52. The whole non-smoking crap is just a bunch of bs that takes the rights away from smokers.

Remember the old days when people smoked in their offices, on airplanes, buses, trains, hospitals, teacher's lounges, grocery stores, etc?
Nowadays non-smokers hoot and holler if you smoke in your own apartment, inside a car in a parking garage, or even outside.
It has gotten totally ridiculous and insane!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. smokers are not a protected group and thereby do no have rights as a group

[bobbolink]

73. ABsolutely! Protecting your health IS INSANE!!

I'm sure Texans agree.

[uppityperson]

75. Remember in the good old days when paint with lead was used everywhere?

Nowadays non-leaders hoot and holler if you paint your own child's crib, or even the outside of your house. It has gotten totally ridiculous and insane! Next thing they'll mandate using seat belts in your own private car!

[Raine]

79. Geesh in the good old days you could spray DDT all over the place

of all the nerve to ban it, it's gotten INSANE! :sarcasm:

[Lorien]

82. Fuck Big Tobacco. Fuck their contributions to the GOP. Fuck the death that they cause.

Fuck anyone who smokes around a non smoker. Fuck the throat cancer that has my father in a hospital bed RIGHT NOW. I don't have the "right" to poison your water with toxins, and you don't have the "right" to poison my air with the same.

[Arugula Latte]

86. Yeah -- That part of "the old days" SUCKED!

Thank goodness for smoking bans -- may they continue and may they go farther.

[Raine]

78. THANK YOU for CORRECTING the subject line

this one actually fits! :thumbsup: