What just happened?

[CoffeeCat]

I pulled into a gas station today and as I was filling up, a man was searching through
the trash next to the gas pump. I saw him pull out a couple of empty soda cans. This man didn't
look unkept and his clothes were clean. He even had a red Columbia jacket on. As I finished
filling the tank, I made eye contact with the guy and said hello.

I don't know how to describe what happened when our eyes met--but it punched a hole in my world.
He looked so dispondent and depressed...worn out. It rocked me.

He moved to the next trash can beside the pumps in the next lane. As I returned to my car,
a woman drove up to that pump. She looked at the man rummaging through the trash, looked
at me and rolled her eyes. I noticed she had a child in a car seat, in the backseat of her
car. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that her eye rolling was mainly out
of fear or uncertainty about this trash-digging man, who would only be a few feet from her.

I circled my car around and went into the convenience store, withdrew $20 and went outside and
found the man looking into the trash can next to the front doors. I asked him if it was ok if I gave
him the money. He choked out the words, "Oh God...you have no idea. Thank you" and he
walked away. I returned to my car and noticed him opening the trunk of the car next to me--putting
away the sack of soda cans he had collected.

As I pulled away, I noticed--the car was a BMW.

I don't know what just happened. What DID just happen? Was this someone who had done well for a
long time, but was now so dispondent and destitute that a few dollars from collecting cans was necessary to survive?

I don't know what to make of this. I am still upset. I live in an upper-middle class suburb in the midwest.

What is going on in this country?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. when I used to take my kids for walks down country roads

because that's where we found the most beer cans, no one ever offered us money, and I'd have been just as grateful as the guy in the BMW. I guess no one feels sorry for people who scrounge for recyclables unless the scrounger looks like they used to be something, um, better than just your average run of the mill poor person.


TG

[LiberalAndProud]

54. Or this is one rare act of kindness.

[Raine]

74. All it takes is one nice person (most likely a liberal) to come along

apparently none did where you were. The OP said how the other person rolled their eyes, wonder many people (and for how long) passed that guy up before the poster came along.

[closeupready]

2. Wow. Have no idea, but I'm glad you offered to help (and did so).

K&R

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. You did a very good thing...

I suspect your guess about what's happening to this man is not far from the truth.

It IS upsetting, to see people like this, scrounging in the trash for recyclable goods. We're not used to it, nor should we be.

It is a scandal, and it is wrong.

[CoffeeCat]

5. It was the look on his face Peggy...

...he looked like he was in such emotional pain.

It really bothered me.

I hope he is ok. And I hope he realizes that people do care.

[Solomon]

34. If you visit places like the carribean you will see that look

everywhere. It got to me the last time I was there. The sheer pain on everyone's face.

[HillbillyBob]

119. Bless you for caring

been there myself more than once.

[Tansy_Gold]

63. ". . . people like this. . . . "

Nice people who drive BMWs shouldn't be reduced to scrounging in trash cans for recyclables, is that it?

I posted up thread because I was too angry about the "people like this" phrase, but I thought my anger would subside. It didn't.

People have scrounged for recyclables for a long long long long time. People have panhandled and gotten food at soup kitchens and food banks. People have begged and starved and frozen to death, but I guess as long as it isn't "people like this" then we don't have to feel any guilt or pain or even any fucking sympathy. We sure as hell don't have to give "people not like this" any assistance.

How easy it is to close our eyes, to pretend they aren't there, and then all of sudden oh my fucking god it's one of us, one of our kind, a "there but for the grace of whatever fucking god you believe in go you" kind of person. A person who drives a Beemer, who looks nice, who dresses nice, who discreetly puts his scavengings in the trunk where they're neatly out of sight so no one he knows is offended by what he has had to resort to keep up appearances.

It's not about how much the car is worth on the open market; it's about the dignity that poor people have been robbed of because they never had any assets and no one seems to care about them, but when it happens one of the "people like this" with his nice car and his nice appearance, then all of a sudden it hits home.

I wonder how many people he stepped on on his way up the ladder of success? I wonder if he and his wife had an undocumented nanny who they treated like "one of the family" to the point of not paying her for some of her overtime? Did they turn her in to ICE when they got far enough behind on her wages that they couldn't afford any more? I wonder if he hired undocumented workers to take care of his lawn and his pool, then cheered the anti-immigrant legislation in Arizona and elsewhere? I wonder if he cheered his dividend statements when profits went up because the companies he had stock in moved their production facilities to Mexico and China and Bangladesh where they could hire 10-year-olds to work 12 hours a day and not worry about OSHA and worker's comp? I wonder if he put his kids in a nice charter school so he could brag that his kids were in a "public" school but were getting a "private" school education because all the tax money was going into the operator's pocket? I wonder how many pukes he voted for, how many times he whined that his taxes were burdensome, how many times he accused the poor of being lazy and undeserving of any assistance?

Yes, yes, it's oh so sad that the man in the BMW is now reduced to recycling aluminum cans. I wonder how many recyclable wine bottles he's thrown out in his profligate lifetime, how many throw-away bottles of designer water he's littered the landscape and the beachscape and the waterscape with? I wonder how much water and wine and food and resources he's wasted without a thought to the cost to the planet or his fellow creatures on it? What's his energy footprint, his fresh water footprint? How much fossil fuel has he burned to keep the yard lights on, the pool heated, the driveway snow melted?

Sorry that I have so little sympathy for "people like this." Maybe he's just learning a valuable lesson.



TG

TG

[Melinda]

76. I think you misunderstand the phrase "people like this"

My perception when I read the entire sentence "It IS upsetting, to see people like this, scrounging in the trash for recyclable goods" is the poster means she is upset to learn (see) anyone (people) without resources (like this) going thru the trash in hopes of finding scrap for sale.

I don't believe she intended to make any kind of value judgment or denigration. Peggy is one of the kindest, most supporting of many big hearted liberals I have had the pleasure of reading on DU for over 10 years now... and this includes you too, TansyGold. Your determination and activism inspires, and the many struggles of and in your life have been absorbed, cried over, and cheered on (albeit silently) from my home in CA over many years.


I truly believe Peggy did not mean what you read. Words get in the way sometimes, don't they? They do. Peace to you TG. :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

78. Thank you. You have interpreted me correctly.

I appreciate your support so much...

[Tansy_Gold]

82. Peggy may not have meant it, but if I read it that way, maybe

someone else did too.

And I'll explain why --

The OP gave $20 to a guy digging in the trash for aluminum cans. No big deal. Haven't we all seen, somewhere along the way, a guy digging in the trash for cans? Around here, every once in a while you might see a guy old enough to have a comfortable retirement but he's pedaling down the side of Highway 60 on a rickety old bike, plastic bags filled with smashed cans hanging from the handlebars. Way early in the morning he or someone like him will be pokin' through the trash cans at the Sundance Restaurant or Tres Banderas, or into the weeds along the side of the road. Nobody pays much attention to these old guys, nobody looks into their eyes and is struck by the haunted look. Probably a lot of people don't look at them because they don't want to see them.

We can't look at them and say that we aren't used to seeing them. We see them all the time, and that's kind of an editorial "we," because I think just about everyone on this board has seen this type of person more than once. Poor, down and out, maybe with mental health or alcohol dependency issues. Maybe we've been approached by one of them outside of Target or W****** (the name of which retailer I don't speak, much less set foot on its property) or at Chili's or Paradise Bakery. The sight of them doesn't shock us, and it hasn't for years. Not even here in the good ol' U S of A. We know there are poor people, and some of us see them on a fairly regular basis; some of us are them.

It wasn't the sight of an "ordinary" can scrounger that prompted the OP's shock or generosity or post. It was the sight of someone who, based on the commonly accepted notion, shouldn't have been can scrounging that shocked. Nice folks in BMWs don't scrounge for cans.

It is a shock for some to realize that poverty is trickling up. For some it should be a wake-up call that as the wealth moves ever higher, it drains higher and higher levels of affluence.

And so after reading the OP tale of the scrounging BMW owner, the phrase "people like this" seemed to connect directly to it. "People like this" are the people we aren't used to seeing (and pretending we don't) resorting to the desperate measures of the poor.

Maybe the guy has been reduced to living out of his car. But he still had enough money to put enough gas in it to drive to the gas station to scrounge for cans. Most of the people I know who rely on scavenging for an extra bit of cash don't have cars at all, and if they did, they couldn't afford the gas, the insurance, the emissions testing and license plates. They don't drive around looking for cans; they walk, or they ride their rickety old bikes.

The OP was prompted to his act of generosity -- if I read his tale the way it was intended -- because he saw in the BMW owner someone who shouldn't have been reduced to poverty. He, the OP, actually saw a poor person and son of gun, that poor person kinda looked like the OP himself.

But if the driver of the beamer didn't deserve to be lowered to such a level that he was collecting other people's garbage to keep body and soul together, what about all the people who have never known anything else? Has the OP never seen them before, or has he just chosen to pretend they don't exist?

That's my point -- not so much that Peggy (whom I do not know at all) used the phrase and whether she meant "People Like This" or "people who are reduced to doing this" and which it is that we're not used to seeing. It's rather that the phrase would even have any meaning or have any reference point. Because I don't know about any of the rest of you, but I see people doing this, reduced to this level, all the time. Are they "people like this" or are they just. . . . people?

A very good friend of mine used to live very very high on the hog. Big house in a high end Silicon Valley community. Fancy cars. Exotic travel. Expensive sports. Fine restaurants, fine wines. Lots and lots and lots of toys. And then, in a very short time, it all disappeared. A few bad investments, a marriage that started to go bad, an expensive lawsuit. A decision to quit a highly paid position with a very stable software developer in CA and take a much lower paying job on the east coast in an effort to keep the family together, and when both the effort and the marriage failed, an expensive divorce and custody battle. The toys are gone, the house is gone, the cars are gone. Nothing that was caused by the economy or GOP tax policies or the wars for oil. Even he admits pretty much all of it was his own mistakes, his own stubbornness in refusing to admit mistakes, his sometimes stupid faith in himself to be able to make everything right when everyone around him said it was broken beyond repair.

And ya know what? Maybe that's what happened to the guy in the BMW at the gas station from the OP. Maybe it was his own fault. Maybe the wife found out he had a girl on the side and kicked him out. Maybe he developed a gambling addiction. Maybe the mortgage is so far underwater that it won't break the surface until 2045 but he won't walk away for fear of losing face. Maybe he's got a sick sister who has no health insurance and he's trying to help her out. The thing is, we don't know. We only know that his plight became worthy of a DU thread because he drove a beamer. "We" aren't used to seeing people with beamers scrounging for cans. "We: aren't used to seeing "people like this" -- people like us? -- with haunted eyes.

All that said, I still can't scrounge up a whole lot of sympathy for the guy in the beamer. He at least had it good for a while. I know too many people who never have, and most likely never will.



Tansy Gold, who tells stories

[notadmblnd]

97. I've been reading the posts in this thread and I feel much the same as you about the OP

But I do want to say, that I feel it is much harder for those who have had it all and lost it, than for those who have never had anything. Especially if they've never known poverty. People who have never really had anything, can't really miss not having it.

I'm used to being broke and it doesn't really bother me not having a dollar in my pocket. I know people that have scrounged all their lives and still do. In many ways they are richer than the Wall Street banksters. I say that because these people are rich in their knowledge in survival. They know how to get across town without four wheels under their ass. They know where it is safe to bed down on the streets for the night, or where to get a meal when they are hungry. They know how to take the scraps from the meat department of their grocery stores and turn it into a pretty hearty meal or where the dumpsters are that contain stuff that those with more just toss out. They know the right answers to give and what hoops they will need to jump through when going to agencies that are supposed to be there to provide help.

My grandmother was a young woman during the Great Depression. I remember being a teenager and going dumpster diving with her. She had a favorite flower shop in town. She never went inside, we would go for walks in the early evening and rummage through the flowers and plants that had been tossed. Take them home, re-pot them or re-arrange them and sell them. There is a woman to this very day I see selling roses. She goes around to local bars in the evening, hawking her flowers to young lovers. And I don't know how many people who buy her flowers know this, but- they grow. If you take one of her cut flowers home and put it in water, it will sprout and grow into a lovely rose bush.


Yeah, I think that those who have never been on the bottom have a much harder time adjusting and surviving with nothing than those who have always struggled.

[mistertrickster]

118. Save your anger for the right-wing. You're blowing this out of proportion.

Seeing somebody driving a Beemer and can-scrounging is NOT the same as the chronically homeless can-scrounging.

It may be symptomatic of an even bigger problem than the problem we could see before.

I think that was the original poster's point.

It doesn't mean that chronic homelessness doesn't matter.

[HillbillyBob]

122. Thanks you said it better than I could

I feel for most anyone having to dig through the trash.
The problem is systemic. I have been at or near the bottom for years..get ahead for a few years then something drastic happens and have to start all over.

We were next to homeless in 2002. Its a long story about lay offs and outsourcing and a small biz we were trying to start and a poor choice in biz partners. The house we ended up in for the winter had no heat and a number of windows out and a mold problem that nearly killed me, I am hiv+ have seizures, heart problems(likely from the meds) etc etc. I worked 2 and 3 jobs plus did some refinishing furniture..In fact there is only about 3 pcs of furniture in the house that is less than 50 yrs old, from yard sales, dumpsters, picked out of the bulk day trash. I have some refinished, but for years we did not live in a place that I could work on it. We bought this abandoned house(still no shop space) cheap I mean no one else wanted it. Its a nice house, needs work after being abandoned then turned into an mj grow. But we can afford the payments. The access road sux big time, but it keeps our casual snoops, religious pamphleteers, and sales man!

We are climbing back up, if not for VA benefits we could not have bought the place even though it was cheap.

My partner got laid off last month..we have struggled to get our feet under us for almost 10 yrs. We don't have a savings cushion because we are paycheck to paycheck and now we are looking at losing it all again. We are hoping and praying a job will come soon. Its hard to find a job at 53yrs. I cannot work.

We have increased the energy efficiency (on the cheap) our power bills are cut by 3/4 and we plan to cut that even more. Then install solar water/heat/power.

In 2002 when our life went out the window it was Second Harvest that stood between us and starving. I have wanted to help pay them back.

Where we moved we have room for gardens and now are almost feeding ourselves. I would like to get to where we can take extra to SH for others.

We are taking this abandoned place and turning it to permaculture/ organic fruits and veggies to eat, barter and share. We are going to have to work together and rebuild a community to survive and take on the righwhiners.

[crim son]

123. You nailed it.

The anger is misplaced. Of course the OP isn't pretending chronic poverty is a non-issue.

[themadstork]

132. What I don't get is

Why wouldn't he just sell the bmw? Am I missing something?

[bluestate10]

134. I completely agree. Where did that rant come from?

People that have never known need often react the worst to not having money for self support. Maybe the man spent one time. Maybe the man did not care about those in need one time. But now that man is a human being in need. The OP was well advised to help. The OP looked into the man's eyes and saw through to his soul, and saw a soul that looked filled with pain and despondency.

[Raine]

143. EXACTLY and perfectly stated. nt

:thumbsup:

[themadstork]

131. I've hung out with a lot of homeless people w/ health or dependency problems

mostly because they tell good stories. I'm a writer and it seems like people become more reluctant to talk about themselves the further up the socioeconomic ladder you go. But anyway, I have to say I don't think the can-collecting thing is as universal a phenomenon as you claim. I can't recall ever seeing someone doing it. Maybe it's not as common in Indianapolis? When they're not panhandling they seem to be mostly just. . . existing, like anyone else. Out walking around downtown. Sitting on a bench. Standing at a crosswalk. Etc.

Incidentally my grandfather collects cans and other recyclable trash from the side of the road, and between his SS and whatever he may have saved he and his wife are supported fine. He just likes to collect trash, basically.

[themadstork]

128. difference between "people like this" meaning "of this socioeconomic type" vs meaning

"in this condition"

Pretty huge difference there. Better to not assume the worst of the poster, IMO.

[trud]

99. Tansy

You're making a lot of assumptions about that man. He could be a perfectly nice person. Just because someone has had money at some point doesn't mean he's scum.

[Tansy_Gold]

105. No, I'm not making any assumptions at all about the driver of the car

I'm speculating, but that's not making assumptions.

And my point is far far less about the scrounger than it is about the observer. I doubt anyone here on DU would have written about seeing the usual can scrounger at the gas station. It was the fact that THIS can scrounger didn't seem to belong doing that.

Why is that? Why did a can scrounger in a BMW attract enough attention that it prompted the OP not only to give him a $20 bill but to write about it?

Is it because the usual can scrounger doesn't represent a threat to the OP's status quo? And I don't mean that in the sense that the "usual can scrounger" poses an immediate physical threat but rather that his kind of institutionalized poverty has always been with us and is kind of taken for granted. But now all of a sudden the povery is creeping closer. It's affecting people we didn't think would ever be affected by it -- "people like this."

Would the OP have handed a $20 bill to the old man with rotten teeth scrounging in the trash can in the parking lot at Food City? Probably not. Or the young woman with signs of crystal meth addiction begging outside the Good Will store? Probably not.

But for some reason, the fall of the comfortable prompted the OP to generosity and verbosity. THAT is the point I'm trying to make.

Back in the spring of 1998 I was sitting in a posh NYC restaurant with a couple of fellow novelists with whom I was attending a conference. We got onto the subject of pioneer skills, and Harold, a North Carolina native, said he believed his grandma could survive just about anything. She had raised her children through the Depression in the hills of Appalachia and right down to that spring at the end of the 20th century, she still knew how to dress a hog and make lye soap. Like today's poor, she had the skills to survive, but does that make her -- or them -- "lucky"?

I still don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the guy with the BMW. I'm sorry if he's lost everything that made his life worth living, that he's reduced to poverty and scrounging cans. But I'm also sorry that so many of us have for so long turned a blind eye to all the others who are scrounging all around us.


TG

[trud]

129. tansy

Assumptions again. What makes you think the OP hasn't helped other people?

[themadstork]

133. You're a novelist?

[Tansy_Gold]

147. I am.

Several times over.

Published, as in real printed paperback copies from major royalty publishers.

Under my real name, which is not




Tansy Gold

[FedUp_Queer]

103. Perhaps you are right.

However, you seem to be doing the exact same thing with your assumptions about the person driving the BMW as you accuse the person who wrote this of doing.

[Maine-ah]

109. I didn't interpret it that way.

I think perhaps different punctuation may change it for you. Like this:


It IS upsetting, to see people like this. Scrounging in the trash for recyclable goods. We're not used to it, nor should we be.

****

in other words, it's hard to see people like this. It's hard to see people having to scrounge for money in trash to get by. The word "people" is being used in general, not specifically this one man.

[LaurenG]

113. Can your words be any harsher

How disturbing! Who gives a flying f*** what he did in the past - he is presently in bad shape. Yes it's important to realize that all people are important, that homelessness is a horrible problem and that we should all be fighting like mad to care for each other.

This is a story of human kindness but you chose to turn it into a cynical bitter fest as usual.


I think it is me who has learned a valuable lesson.

[leftstreet]

140. Her words aren't harsh at all

Mine were, and they got deleted. Which is fine

There are millions of stories of human kindness every single day. That's what should draw attention to this story, not the perceived losses of a "middle class" person as opposed to an impoverished one.

But, alas...

[LaurenG]

146. I think kindness should be celebrated every time it appears.

I don't know what you wrote since I came along after it was deleted but where ever there is suffering we should help in whatever way we can. We should never get used to suffering or qualify our compassion based on appearances. The op and the man connected on a human level, that is a good thing.

I've never owned, much less sat in a bmw and I probably wouldn't have given him a second look and moved on because the man was dressed in clean clothes and I may have assumed he was a recycler. Had he been in rags I probably would have given him whatever I had in my purse.

There is a message here and it is to be responsive to each other because we never know what private hell others are living through.

[Xenotime]

4. Former Enron Exec?

[CoffeeCat]

6. They're probably all...

...partying on some private island--dancing the meringue and drinking little drinks with umbrellas
with Kenny Lay.

[DeeDeeNY]

114. Where is that private island?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/05/news/newsmakers/lay_death/

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. How much can he get for the BMW?

Not much of a business man if he's making a living recycling aluminum cans, instead of turning in his BMW for a Yugo.

[CoffeeCat]

11. I really don't know...

...maybe it was someone trying to hold on to the last vestiges of a former life?

Do they still make Yugos? ;)

[TalkingDog]

13. Better business sense to keep the Beemer.

They tend to last forever and are the maintenance and warranty packages are good deals. The Yugo could break down a week after you drive it off the lot....

Now running a jitney cab in it would be a good way to make some money.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Good points.

[SheilaT]

36. Even better business sense is to

sell or trade in the Beemer for a Honda. Now that's a reliable car that's easy on gas and does not cost all that much to maintain.

[slackmaster]

93. You're right. I wouldn't begrudge the man for having a reliable car that he presumably paid for.

Good point, TalkingDog.

[hunter]

45. He's probably upside down on it...

... dreading the day they reposes it.

[justiceischeap]

48. Forget the Yugo, get a bicycle. If I needed to recycle cans to survive & had a BMW

I'd be selling that friggin' car.

[freshwest]

85. Not if it's paid for and what he's living in. A lot of people now live in their cars.

[Thav]

96. The BMW may be his house.

It'd be a hard fall to go from a decent apartment/house with a BMW to a bicycle and a tent. Some people can fall that hard and bounce back. Some just fall hard and don't move.

I'd bet it wasn't an expensive 7 series either, probably one of the lower ends.

[Maine-ah]

108. perhaps he's living in the car too.

[Lorien]

69. It may be paid off and have well over 100,000 miles on it. If so, he's better off keeping it

Those are well made cars. If he couldn't get enough for it to purchase a reliable vehicle, then he's best off keeping it.

[Lucky Luciano]

92. Most likely hard to sell the car. If he could get anywhere near fair value

for it, he would and then he would be much better off while trying to find a proper job. I sold a car a year ago. It took six bloody months to get $17.5K for a car with a book value of $22K. Obviously those book values are always inflated to help the car dealers, but that was ridiculous. Not only that, but only two people came to see the car in those six months. It is tough to sell your car these days. I can only magibe how people trying to sell their house are faring. Must be awful.

[PotatoChip]

107. Not only that, but the cost of inevitable repairs

Cars parts for beemers are hard to find and ridiculously expensive. Many a teenager/young adult has made the mistake of buying fancy used cars such as this because they appear to be something that people w/money would drive. Unfortunately far too many learn the hard way, even w/a good upfront price that the thing costs way too much.

Sorry to have gotten a bit off track here with the conversation. Carry on.

[HillbillyBob]

144. Well is like this , he has a dependable car and hopefully it is

paid off. It will last and get him to job interviews, it seems kind of shortsighted to trade off a car (yes, valuable for this very reason) it will last or should if he took care of it previously for a used one that God only knows how it was treated.
This is my take of view having had way to many klunkers which in the end cost more in repairs than to hold on to the 'good' one.
Plus headaches of break downs in the Worst places and at the Worst possible time.
It does not really matter, it could have been borrowed.

We are all learning to be humiliated that is the take away for me. Frankly Im getting right tired of it, I have had my share of humiliations and humblings some deserved, but usually not, it is happening and you know by whom and how after the last 30 yrs of pay stagnation for most of us.

She did not say what kind of Beemer either, the small ones are not more $ than a VW is these days..now if it was something like a 745i, yea sell it and by a new Versa. Not being too worried the car is going to break and it will is an immense amount of pressure relieved.

[truedelphi]

8. I am so pleased

That you helped and that he accepted it.

People who were affluent no longer are.

At the same time you are doing this good deed, Fox news has Stauffel on a show that puts out pretend poor people and "shows" America how all these people are making over 60 dollars a day begging, and none of them need it, except for the drug addicts and boozers, who of course, don't deserve it.

[CoffeeCat]

20. I was glad that he accepted it...

...and I don't do enough things like this.

That's terrible that Fox would do a story like that...a deliberate attempt to demonize people who need help and
make people HATE them. Given our current economic crisis, that's incredibly cruel. More propaganda from the
neocon faction that not only wants to take over the world and own everything--but cause immense suffering.

Very sad.

[JuniperLea]

38. They are trying to make us hate them...

So that despondent look that ripped at your heart would go unnoticed. It's more of the same divide and conquer routine we've known for a very long time. Any wedge they can use to distract from their thieving and pillaging... skin color, class... it's all the same. This has always been about class warfare, even when it was made to look like racism.

You did a very good thing... don't ever lose that empathy for your fellow human beings!

[bobbolink]

75. And people like me get to be the recipient of that kind of hatred.... including at churches, etc.

The job of discrediting us has been very well done.

[freshwest]

86. I know what you mean.

[bluestate10]

137. Sorry.

But you come off as one of the most bitter people. Bad luck happens to everyone. If a person gets fixated on how bad off they are and how everyone around is conspiring to hold them down, that person will never improve his or her life. The majority of people that you meet when receiving aid are some of the most caring people that any of us can meet. Get over being poor, there are far worse statuses that a person can have in life.

[bobbolink]

145. Did you tell that to the people in Madison?? Talk about "bitter"... they are beyond "bitter"

But that doesn't count, right?

"Sorry"... is that a joke? Or did you NOT mean what you said?

"Sorry" is a very important word. Please do NOT use it when you don't mean it. Thank you.

[themadstork]

135. Ugh. What show is this? Talk about scummy.

[bluestate10]

139. Why ask. The program was on Fox News. Enough said. nt.

[bluestate10]

138. Steuffel is an idiot.

There will always be some abuse in even the best anti poverty programs. It is useless jerks like Steuffel that focus on just the abuse instead of the infinitely larger body of people helped.

[undeterred]

9. While I was in line at the food pantry today there was a guy cursing Obama

for the high price of gas. He said there is plenty of oil in the Artic but Obama refuses to let us drill there. So its all Obama's fault. I kept my mouth shut and got my food.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. And if we pull that oil out of the Arctic it goes into the global kitty reserve and

Wall Street gets to gamble the price up.

[Mimosa]

57. ^ ITA ^

USA should hang on to the reserves.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. That guy you heard today is an idiot.

It would take TEN years to get it out, and even then we wouldn't get it. The oil companies would sell it on the open market.

Those people have no loyalty to the US.

And it sure wouldn't help the high price of gasoline.

Sure.....blame Obama. That's a really smart move.

You were smart to keep your mouth shut. I would have been in trouble...

:hi:

[undeterred]

24. No fights in the food pantry line.

Sometimes I meet people who totally get it. Other times I meet people who are on all kinds of public assistance and they are talking down Obama the Socialist. I just listen. I give the canned salmon to my dog. :hi:

[catbyte]

46. How can you keep your mouth shut in the face of such ignorance?

I guess I used to keep quiet, but I just can't any more. The older I get the more assertive (i.e. mouthy :)) I become.

[freshwest]

87. It depends on what back up you have. If you have none. your stomach shuts your mouth.

[cottonseed]

10. Used BMWs aren't worth that much. About as much as an old Camry.

[Zorra]

And like 3-5 times more difficult and expensive to fix than an old Camry.

[Glassunion]

53. If you buy a certified pre-owned the maintenance is free to 6 years of 100K miles.

It's actually still cheaper than the Camry.

[bluestate10]

141. The question was about how much the gent would get for the BMW.

Although those that buy certified pre-owned pay a good price, this poster doubt the man would see a pittance of that if he sold the car to a dealer or car lot owner, or average citizen.

[pintobean]

12. I know several people on fixed incomes

who collect cans for gambling money. They check the trash cans and dumpsters. Its the only money they'll use for their entertainment at the casinos.

[walldude]

14. +10 Karma Points....

Shit is all messed up. What really kills me is when I get strange or nasty looks from people if they see me hand off some money.

When I was young I was really high on Mushrooms and listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. The very last line of the song Us and Them goes like this:

"For want of the price of tea and a slice the old man died".

Now being on mushrooms, all sensitive and shit, that line hit me right in the gut, ever since that day if I pass a panhandler and I have cash he/she gets some of it.

[themadstork]

136. Haha. I love how the Defiant Angry White Conservatives get when I tell them that I always give and

give without reservation, none of this "I'll buy you a cheeseburger" shit. Why don't conservatives just come out and say outright that their party is the "I've got mine; fuck you" party? They argue against social welfare but then explode with anger at the sight of privately given welfare. How does a person become so malicious and greedy?

And just how fucking pretentious is the "I'll buy you a cheeseburger" shit anyway. I can't believe anyone defends that. What the are they, your fucking hamsters? Feed 'em and give 'em a wheel to run around in?

[eleny]

15. I rememer when the petroleum business crashed in Colorado decades ago

A petro engineer friend of ours was able to keep his job. But most of his friends were out of work and on their asses. Our friend worried deeply about one of his pals who he feared would commit suicide.

These were all people who lived within their means and lived well. Suddenly it was all up in smoke. One guy started driving a cab and went back to college to learn to be a programmer. Eventually his marriage broke up. We heard that it couldn't handle the strain of the change.

It's just that your story of what happened today reminded me of what happened around here. At least back then people could go back to school and learn a different trade. What can they do now? Seems like you can hit rock bottom very quickly with no hope in sight. You did a good deed.

[CoffeeCat]

27. That's a good point...

...you get bounce out of a company today--it's not as easy to turn things around.

Returning to school is costly. If you're a high-paid executive, that might mean
a move and it's damn hard to sell a home right now. Plus, it's just not as easy
to find a job. So many variables make it tougher to be unemployed.

[eleny]

41. That's it, for sure

The other day our Horse With No Name posted about a neighbor who drove so far to work that she worried she couldn't continue the drive there if fuel costs rose any higher. Lots of heartfelt advice was offered such as moving, getting another car and such. But it's not so easy to move or buy a car.

These days it would be hard to figure out what to study if you could go back to school. Even depression setting in can make a person feel like every door is closed no matter where they turn. Not to make excuses for people I don't know but things are worse than I've ever seen and I'm 64 with a social services work history. I've visited people in all circumstances before I retired but these days it's the worst.

[tblue37]

127. What I am starting to see a little bit of--and I hope to see a lot more of soon--is a sort of local

underground economy. Not necessarily “underground” in the sense of not reporting income, but underground in the sense of being off the standard employment grid. Many of us have talents and skills that actually are worth something. We can either trade them for things or assistance that we need or sell them for money to buy what we need.

For example, I have a reasonably steady but rather low-paid job teaching Freshman-Sophomore English as a fulltime adjunct instructor at a state university. Although my fulltime position means I am salaried and make a bit more than the part-timers (which I was one of until 6 years ago when they established a couple of fulltime positions in my department), I still don’t make quite enough to live as comfortably as one would wish. Because of physical problems, I can no longer walk 10 miles a day, so I had to buy a used car about 4 ½ years ago. When it died (really, really died), I had to replace it. The little 2007 Ford Focus I bough costs me $248 per month, plus another $250 every 6 months for insurance, plus the cost of gas, maintenance, and repairs.

I have never had a regular long-term monthly bill like that for a purchase, because I have never bought a car that I had to pay off over several years. (My first one was purchased from my son, and I got a very good deal on it). I also don’t buy any big-ticket items at all. My computers have all been given to me when someone else moved up to a newer, better model, or by the owner/CEO of a company that I did a bunch of writing for over a couple of years. My furniture has mostly been similarly gifted to me by people who didn’t want it any more, though I did buy a couple of items really, really cheap when a lady needed to get rid of her elderly relatives’ furniture when they went into assisted care (a love-seat sized sleeper, a small chair, and a book shelf).

In other words, I live pretty cheaply, but I still like to be able to help my adult kids out when they need it, and I also have 4 cats, and they costs some money, too, for food, litter, vet bills, toys, etc. One is 18 ½ years old, and her vet visits and medicines cost a lot. Plus at age 60 I have my own health care costs, including the monthly cost of my expensive medicines

So I supplement my salary with freelance tutoring, writing, and editing. Until a few years ago, I also did some babysitting on the side when it was needed, as well as some mending and hemming. I used to do a lot of custom sewing, too, but that’s more strenuous than my arthritic back and hands can handle now, so I don’t do major sewing projects any more.

I know people who have begun wall or house painting, odd handyman jobs, pet sitting, dog walking, house cleaning, lawn-mowing, etc., on the side to earn a few extra bucks, or else in trade for some service or goods they need.

And of course those who can are now growing some of their own food, either in pots in their apartments, in their own yards, or in community gardens, and some are selling their excess.

We cannot count any more on big companies and institutions (like my university, whose funding keeps getting cut by the state) to keep us well-employed, so we have to look around our communities and get back into exchanging goods and services with our neighbors. The stupid, short-sighted greed-monkeys who run the big companies and the government always kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. They drive their potential customers and clients into poverty, and then they don’t have anyone to buy their products any more.

Unfortunately, they have so much power and have gobbled up so much of the available resources that it is more difficult than it should be to subsist within our own local area. For example, many people don’t have access to land for growing food, or to seeds or implements—or even a regular source of fresh water—to make gardening possible, even on a small scale. But among those of us who have depended on the big companies and institutions to employ us and to sell us what we need (and, let’s face it, what we really just want), many are starting to “bring their business home,” in the sense of trading with their neighbors instead of with the companies we used to buy from.

For 18 years, even as I taught ¾ time at the university, I also ran a home daycare to supplement my income without having to leave home during most of my (then) young children’s waking hours. I held office hours on alternating weekends when the kids were at their dad’s, and sometimes in the afternoon in the apartment, hiring someone to watch the kids while I had conferences with my students. (We’d often conference with toddlers and preschoolers crawling on us, but the students rather enjoyed the little ones.)

During the 6 or 9 hours a week that I had to actually be in class, plus the brief to and from travel time, I also had a regular substitute sitter who took care of the kids while I taught my classes. I taught earliest morning classes, so that the little ones would still be not totally revved up for the day, and some would not even be there yet. That way, by the time all the kids were at my place and ready to rumble—i.e., go to the park, the pet store (our petting zoo), the library, the wading pool, etc.—I would be home with them.

My sub-sitters would always be college girls whom I had gotten to know well because they were in my classes, and I would use the same one for the entire 4-5 years she was in college, so the kids would not have constant caretaker turnover, even for the few hours I was away. I also always paid a little more than minimum wage, since minimum wage was pretty much prevalent in town at that time.

I used to joke that since our college town has so few employment opportunities, and the ones it does provide paid rock-bottom minimum wage back then, whereas it also had a huge pool of intelligent, educated people seeking work, it was almost impossible for anyone to find part-time work.

Thus, I joked, I had become one of the town’s major employers!

Of course I wasn’t, but I did provide part-time employment for a number of college girls over the course of my 18 years of running a home daycare, and I paid them better than most other part-time jobs they could have gotten around here at that time.

In many ways, we can employ each other. We can trade with each other. We can help each other. We have to return our lives to our communities as much as possible and stop totally depending on the big, greedy companies that do not care what happens to us. The end of cheap energy means long-distance commerce is going to become untenable sooner than anyone expects, so it’s a good idea to start trading closer to home as much as we can right now.

[Duer 157099]

17. Or, could be he borrowed the car from the relative that he is living with

A brother, sister, parent, perhaps?

[CoffeeCat]

23. That's very true...

it's a mystery.

[freshwest]

88. That's true. Judging people's means by the vehicle they drive is an error. Many rightwing tales...

Of people they see driving up to a store in expensive vehicles and using food stamps, are just plain ignorant. Because sometimes a better off friend takes them to the store in their car. But it's more satisfying to the gossips to make their story outrageous.

The truth doesn't matter, because they don't deal in truth. The truth terrifies them, so they *must* make different, inferior and dishonest the ones who are poor, as if it will keep it from happening to them. The truth is that everyone in this country, through the right series of circumstances, could be that person who needs help.

[ejpoeta]

22. there are people who were doing ok that are now struggling. people who

normally don't end up at the food bank are at food banks. people who don't know how to make it on little are probably hurting worse than those of us who have scrimped and scrounged for years. I mean i am lucky that my husband knows how to fix things. He was just checking on prices for aluminum and rims this morning. He has been saving up these things in the back in case. we have had cars back there and when we had an emergency or something he'd load one up and take it off to the junk yard. in that way i feel glad to have not much. we know how to get by.

[snooper2]

25. My dad used to pull cans out of the trash to recycle

He would get to the Chrysler plant 1.5 hours early before work and walk around and go through all the trashcans in the parking lot collecting cans.


Every workday, for decades....


Some people just do stuff.

(On edit, I was embarrassed as a kid but thinking now, we should all be doing it. That is if we really do give a shit about this planet. Maybe I'll take it up to. My truck has a bed :) )

[CoffeeCat]

29. What got me was the look in his eyes...

...totally dispondent. This wasn't some frugalmeister, happily doing his thing.

I sensed that he was very upset and maybe even embarrassed. In pain.

Who knows? I'll never know.

Your dad was very smart. I bet all of those nickles added up! I clip coupons
like a crazy person, and I understand that mentality. And hey, you've got a
pick-up truck--what are you waiting for? :)

[bobbolink]

35. Poor people are doing it for you, now. Just thank them. ^_^

[Blue_Tires]

47. That's what I do as well (earning a lot of WTF stares from passers-by)

:web:

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. Sad story but the BMW...needs to sell it if he's got the pink slip, probably still owes on it

[dixiegrrrrl]

43. If I park a BMW overnight in a decent neighborhood to sleep in it,

chances are no one would bother me.
If I park my ratty old car in the same neighborhood, someone would call the cops. It would look out of place.

If I go to a job interview in a BMW, it looks better.

I can think of a lot of good reasons to hold onto that car, one of them being the guy is still on the way down and not yet realizing there may not be a UP to look forward to.

Maybe selling the Beemer is his ace in the hole.

Maybe holding onto it is his psychological salvation.

Who are we to judge where he is on the slippery slope that most of us share?

[Liberal_in_LA]

79. true enough, I guess

[freshwest]

89. Agreed, have seen it all.

[jeff47]

59. Used BMWs aren't worth all that much, and if he owns it outright

it's cheaper to keep it than risk a beater that's always breaking down.

[Lorien]

70. My mom always owned beaters when I was a kid. She dropped several hundred

dollars every two months or so fixing them, and was always having to rent a car when ours was in the shop. She could have had a nice new midsized American or Japanese vehicle for all the money that she spent on the Dodge Dart and Ford Granada. A "cheap" car is so often anything but!

[Liberal_in_LA]

80. Today's "cheap" cars are made much better than they were in the past.

[ohheckyeah]

72. How the hell do you know what he needs to do?

Seriously. Maybe it wasn't even his BMW. Maybe it's paid for and he doesn't have the ability to get a loan to trade it in on something else. Who knows? You certainly don't.

[Liberal_in_LA]

81. I mentioned he could possiblly be still paying on it. Was just speculating

[Bragi]

28. Maybe he's livingin the car? /nt

[Poll_Blind]

30. I think in this case, if you were able to afford that $20, you did a very...

...good deed. I, personally, would not get thrown too much by that BMW. It is odd. However, your own inspection of him on a deeper level seemed to reveal an authenticity that is all one would normally require to feel like the act was worthwhile.

The collapse has caused some unusual juxtapositions in this regard.

Good on ya, BTW!

PB

[bobbolink]

31. And, these are the people who the RW then says proves that people are defrauding the system.

If this man goes to a food bank, and the workers there see him in his BMW, that is the crap that gets started.

"These 'poor' people have more than you and me... they are gaming the system' ".

That is how this gets started.

I know a teabagger who drives a mercedes SUV and goes to food banks. Yet, she was saying to her tebagger friends that they ought to go steal the tvs from poor people!

Some of these people tried ot live large and got into debt over their head and now go to food banks.

Others, probably like this man you saw, have fallen on hard times, probably lost everything except the car they live in, and just trying to find a way to survive.

Just the other day, another DUer said, "Can we now say 'We told you so' when you are talking about what happening to the middlclass? We told you during Clinton that if you let the poor get cut from welfare, it would happen to you. Now do you believe us?"

Yes. That is what you saw happening.

WE. TOLD. YOU. SO.

[bobbolink]

32. Go to this post and take action... because this is what you think happened...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x935746

[Zorra]

33. "Commit Random Acts Of Kindness And Senseless Beauty"

My favorite bumper sticker.

Well done, CC!

[upi402]

37. dude needed to smoke something

and needed a can to burn his rock

[reggie the dog]

50. ???

[Incitatus]

91. wow nt

[BoWanZi]

39. I drive a fancy Lincoln that was 42k when new. I'm on the verge of economic collapse

I'm not that bad as the bmw owner but still, just because someone has a few nice things doesn't mean their life is free from extreme hard ships. I went from making 46k to nearly nothing in the last year and I don't have job prospects yet.

I still have my nice car because it is paid off. It is worth 1k-3k tops now but still looks like a fancy rich car.

[madamesilverspurs]

40. What just happened

is a thing called 'compassion'. In the space of a few heartbeats you demonstrated the difference between conservative and liberal. And in taking the action you did you benefitted at least as much as that man did. You have a good heart, don't ever let anyone talk you out of it.

-

[Jazz Ambassador]

42. Another theory

Interesting that everybody thinks the guy was down-and-out. My first thought when I read that he was a well-dressed guy with a BMW but scrounging for cans with a haunted look was that he was mentally ill, not destitute. I've seen that kind of behavior before, I'm sorry to say. Regardless, good on you for opening your heart.

[Dappleganger]

44. Thanks...

for lending a hand when most people don't even turn their necks to look.

:hi:

[lunatica]

49. You showed a great deal of kindness

If someone wanted to con you they would play the part of a destitute person with their clothes. You did the right thing. I've heard and read about lots of people who live in their BMWs and who are homeless. Any other time you would have just ignored him, but in today's world even people who look like they're well off could be one step away from their worst nightmare.

[xchrom]

51. There but for the grace of god...

He didn't fit with our notions our notions of poverty.

And even in an enlightened place like DU - plenty are ready to 'should' on him because of physical vestiges of what might have been.

Who knows how he got there - but got there he did.

You were a mensch. And that's a good thing to be.

[Glassunion]

52. You done good Charlie Brown.

BMW does not mean wealthy they can be surprisingly inexpensive used.

I still get crap at work after buying one(used) over 6 months ago. But not one person said a damn thing when I was driving my Nissan XTerra. Some quick math...
Last year I was looking at $4,000 in repairs to pass inspection on a truck that was getting 17mpg that I no longer needed as I did not need to work on construction sites any more.

So the way I figured, I could use that same money on a new car that gets better mileage. So I traded the truck in and haggled my ass off.

I got them to inflate the value of my trade an additional 1,500. Lower the price of the car 2,500 and set me up with a 1.9apr and free maintenance until 2013.

So, now I have a low mileage '07 BMW, that gets 30mpg and the payment is lower(by $50 bucks a month), I don't pay for any maintenance or repairs and they give me brand new ones to drive while they service mine when it is due.

But at work they still bust my balls and ask me if I won the lottery. I just tell them I'm compensating for a very small penis. I then remind them that my car is cheaper than theirs.

[Travelman]

55. If you had said this was a woman instead of a man

I might have thought you had encountered my ex-wife. You're talking about just what she did, how she dressed, acted, the look in the eyes, etc. when she got deep into prescription drug abuse. When she would run out of her Xanax, she would have a despondent, perhaps even desperate look in her eyes, even though she was dressed professionally while she was collecting cans (or pawning the silver, as I later found out she was doing, or taking out dozens of payday loans, or....).

I hope I'm wrong about this, but it's entirely possible that what just happened is that you helped a drug addict get his fix that he needed.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. sounds more like he just forgot his wallet and the tank was empty

Sorry, but it makes no sense at all that someone would be picking through trashcans in order to collect cans as a means of survival yet is driving, insuring and gassing up a BMW.

No doubt in a situation where one is nearly out of gas and has forgotten their wallet having no way to pay for gas they may have already put in their car or any way to get in touch with someone to rescue them would be feeling desperate and too embarrassed to ask strangers for money to help them out. Done it myself (though in my case I didn't pick through the trash but hoofed it home). Ran into a woman late at night at the supermarket nearly in tears that begged for money because she was nearly out of gas and had forgotten her purse about a year or so ago.

[Mimosa]

58. You did the right thing

I hate some of people's imaginary scenarios (the despicable drug addiction scenario -evn if true, so what?) because I've known people who are trying to hang on to what they have in hopes of things turning around. The more qualified they are the harder it is to find jobs.

Kindness in itself is enough, Coffeecat. You are a good person.

[RagAss]

60. You got scammed...should have followed him home ...but the guard would turn you away at the gate.

[stevenleser]

65. I don't think so. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. That is exactly what just happendd

this story of yours also belongs in any oral history of the Great Depression.

[Mnemosyne]

62. Do unto others...

Ya' done good! :hug:

[Daphne08]

64. We weren't there. You were. We didn't see the look in his eyes.

Thank you for helping a fellow human being.

[stevenleser]

66. I can guess because I have been there...

You have a good job for 4-6 years, you think you are OK, you upscale your car a little, maybe some other aspects of your life, then the economy changes and the next thing you know your boss says "sorry" and hands you a pink slip.

OK, no big deal you think because you have a decent severance (8-10 months pay) and just a few weeks ago, you were beating away the recruiters with a stick. Only now when you call one, you can literally hear the head-shaking on the phone as he says, sorry, we have no jobs and hundreds of people like you who want them. OK, you still aren't worried, but when the next 7 recruiters say the same thing, and that represents the balance of the headhunters in your area, you feel your first flash of fear. Still, you have a long severance so you think, its gonna be ok.

8-10 months pass by with you calling all of the recruiters every other day and now you are really worried. To keep afloat, you cash in your 401K which buys you another 12-16 months or so. Fact is, even if this additional lifeline gets you to your next job, your retirement is screwed. Unfortunately for me (in 2003) and probably the guy in the beamer, this too runs out 12-16 months later with no job for you in sight. You take whatever minimum wage job you can find and supplement it with any way you can scrounge up additional income. Meanwhile, now all of your bills cannot be paid ontime and that includes your car payment, car insurance, rent/mortgage, electricity, cell phone, etc. If you are really unlucky, you have made a mistake on how much tax you should have paid on your 401K and now you have to come up with that additional money with no realy short term possibility of doing it.

My guess is, the guy you gave the $20 is in a situation like that. As I said, I know, because I have been there. It has taken me from then (2003) to the last year or so to get back into a decent place. That is a long time in the economic wilderness.

[Contrary1]

67. I've helped a few strangers out, didn't matter to me how they were dressed.

They appeared to be in need of a helping hand, so I offered.
I'm glad you did the same. :pals:

[southernyankeebelle]

68. It is very sad. I wondered for a long time now when the upper middle class were going to start

opening their eyes and seeing what is going on around them. What you are now experiencing has been going on in the middle, lower and working class for many years and no one gave a damn. Now some in the upper middle class are even getting foods stamps. I have seen videos where people who never collected any type of welfare or unemployment now see things very different. I have worked in food kitchens helping out and I always say by the grace of god go I. None of us know how fast you can fall. The republicans don't give a damn and have no compassion. Their religious leaders will help only if you join their church. That is why I don't want my tax money going to churchs. Democrats care what happens to everyone. Yes its very upsetting to see.

[Lorien]

71. You did the right thing. The look on his face told you all you needed to know

:yourock:

[CoffeeCat]

84. That was it...the look on his face...

I wish I could explain it better. I felt compelled to make a connection and to let
him know that someone cared. I felt as if he needed to be reminded that the world
is good and that he is not alone. It reall wasn't about the money.

I just felt that he needed to know that he wasn't invisible.

Hard to explain.

I think any of you would have done the same. I just happened to be there.

[PJPhreak]

106. "That Look" may very well be PTSD...

I Know,I was this guy about ten years ago.

The loss of a loved one,my house burning down,loss of a job,all in the same month.

The the beginning of April I was doing just dandy...by May 15 I was standing in a soup kitchen line catching shit cuz I was driving a "Nice" Toyota 4-Runner.

This kinda shit can go down fast,Really Fast.

That Hollow Look you saw...A combination of Anger,Despair,Hopelessness and Terror.

Not to knock anyone in the military,but combat isn't the only circumstance that will "Drop Kick" your psyche...


CoffeeCat...You did this man a "HUGE" Favor....Thank You.

[ohheckyeah]

73. Thank you for doing such a nice thing.

None of us know for sure what happened but we don't really need to know to show compassion and caring to another human being.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. When we hit hard times, we sold everthing not immediately necessary.

When I told my brother that we were selling our boat he said; "Don't do that, you'll never get another!"

That always stuck with me. Some people hang on to the trappings until they've become simply traps.

[Taverner]

83. It's Long Term Unemployment

And as long as Wall Street gets to call the shots, expect to see more and more of this

[freshwest]

90. You did the same thing I do. Thanks for sharing that.

[slackmaster]

94. Impossible to know. Maybe he's unemployed, maybe he just found out he's getting divorced, etc.

You did the right thing.

[neoralme]

95. You did the right thing. I would have done the same. I am becoming

more suspicious of panhandlers lately, though. Some of them reportedly make about 50 grand a year doing it. Maybe not now, but a few years ago a read an article about some of them working the freeway ramps out of Vegas.

[matt819]

98. What's with the BMW antagonism?

I had a couple of BMWs once. One I inherited, and I ran it until it died, and the second, 20 years old, I ran until the cost of repairs exceeded its value. What's with the assumption that the presence of a BMW in this anecdote somehow reflects badly on this person? Sheesh!

[CoffeeCat]

104. You've misunderstood...

I certainly don't think his owning a BMW reflects poorly on him. To the contrary, his
driving away in a BMW made me concerned for him. I'll never know, but I assumed that this
was someone who was completely despondent because he, at one time, "had it all" but had
faced circumstances that destroyed his entire life.

I have nothing against BMWs or this man owning one. I think it's an important detail because
his expensive car is most likely an indicator of how our messed up economy has caused people
of all socioeconomic levels to resort to very desperate behavior, such as collecting cans.

[matt819]

115. I know that wasn't your point

I appreciated the point you were making. My comment was directed at those who argued, "what could he get for the car," as if that was a realistic option or that he could avoid dumpster diving if only . . .

Your overall point is well taken. What have things come to?

[Fire1]

126. I don't get your point. Why is it not a "realistic" option?? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

100. It can happen

One of my Portland friends was unemployed for YEARS, but she still wore her business clothes when she went out in public just to maintain some semblance of pride.

She received snide remarks when she went out grocery shopping with her "food stamps" debit card.

[cate94]

101. Thank you for being compassionate.

We need more of that.

I'm glad for every single response that thanks you for helping.
We are so jaded.
We think everyone is out to take us.

Last year I was returning from Midway Airport. A woman approached my car and said her car had broken down and her kids were in it about a block back. I gave her some money. Next week, the same woman approached my car with the same song and dance. I told her I helped her last week and she ran away. Literally ran.

I can do two things with that story. I can feel bad and taken by that panhandler. Or I can feel good about myself for trying to help another human being. I'd rather be wrong in helping once in a while. And for all I know the real story of that woman may be worse than the lie she told about her car.

Thanks for helping the guy with the cans regardless of the type of car he drove.

[The Blue Flower]

102. What's happening: The Great American Awakening

I've been unemployed for over two years, am over 60, volunteer 3 days/week at my local food bank, and just helped start a clothing distribution center in my neighborhood. The numbers of those in need have increased every week. The reality that we DUers saw coming years ago is finally upon us, and our friends and neighbors finally see that it has come down to protecting our homes and our families.

[TomClash]

110. You just made the acquaintance . . .

. . . of the End of the Empire - in flesh and blood.

That's what just happened.

Think about it.

[Warpy]

111. What is going on in this country is a war against the people

and you did a good thing. Chances are he bought that Beemer when he had a great job that he thought was going to last forever. Only it didn't. He's likely an 99er, thrown on the scrap heap because he's not a fresh faced twenty something who will do the same job cheaper.

He's likely one step ahead of the repo man.

[indimuse]

112. bless you..

knr!

[TatonkaJames]

116. That was a kind act; however....

60 minutes did a piece on this yeas ago, a guy with a huge home and a few nice cars like you described and what did he do all day ?
He drove to an underpass, parked his car a couple blocks away and went out panhandling. Guy made a mint each day. No taxes.
There are the destitute and then there are the carpetbaggers.

[Scottybeamer70]

117. Thank you for helping, CoffeeCat

I would have done the same thing in that situation.
I'm glad I don't live near some commenters in here.
Lives can change drastically and quickly............been there........am there!

[emilyg]

120. Not too long ago I saw

a young man sitting at the curb by a gas station crying. I approached him. He told me he had 2 job intervires and ran out of gas. Couldn't get home. I gave him $20 to get some gas and some food. Welcome to America - this is how it is in our country now. Let's spend more money on more wars.

[dbflah]

121. just happened

Cat,
Thank you for your kindness. As my wife and I lost our savings, business and home over the past few years, I always
paid attention to people with signs at intersections. I didn't seem able to give much. I had to do a lot of driving between Minneapolis and far west Chicago suburbs. The drives included boiled eggs, salami and perhaps fruit and some chunky soup.Its a lot cheaper than Burger King.The cans started to build when I found it possible to buy a case at a buck a can.
I was at a light, next to me was a guy with a sign. They all say help in one manner or another. I had no dollar bills. I grabbed a can of soup and a plastic spoon. The guy told me he hadn't had food since 2 days previous. I ran out of soup cans, started carrying a few peanut butter jelly sandwiches.
Cat , thank you for your kindness........
df

[Hatchling]

124. I collect cans and bottles like that.

On SSA and SSI and after bills, rent, meds and laundry are paid, I have no more money. I get food from the food banks but with all this recent rain they are often closed. I get 2-4 dollars a day which is enough to buy some protein and some cheap starch to go with it and an occasional off brand soda at the 99 cent store for a treat. Of course there are days on end when I am in too much pain or too sick to do it.

I have to walk 2 miles to turn them in because public transportation won't allow the bottles on the bus.

I feel sorry for the truly homeless because I know I am cutting into income they are used to having for their own but I have so little choice.

There are times when more than one of us converge on the same gas station and although words are not spoken we are both aware that the other one is taking something that each could have used and also that neither of us have any choice. We share a mutual feeling of compassion and resentment.

I was ashamed when I first began doing this but now I feel a bit of delight when I find recyclables in the gas stations and some pride that disabled as I am, I can at least manage this much for myself. I dress nicely and quite often people at the stations will get into their cars and scrounge a few more bottles for me. I thank them graciously for helping out.

[LongTomH]

125. God bless you for your kindness and compassion.

This is the way every religion says we should act toward our fellow human beings.

[bluestate10]

130. You did well. Does not sound like the man was looking for a handout.

He could have been a person that was doing well but was brought to his knees by the Bush economy. DU members that can afford to give to worthy charities or food banks that do not discriminate against ANYONE, should. I benefited from the December tax deal and have been doing everything that I can to give every penny that I gained to worthy charities and food banks. Fellow DU member, please keep your warm heart.

[MrsBrady]

142. i know someone who drives an expensive sports car, but is barely getting by

friend #1 knew that friend #2 was needing a "new" car.
commuting long distances, with an old gas guzzler about to kick the bucket.

friend #1 is not rich, but has a good job with full military retirement...so he has two salaries...single/divorced a long time ago with grown kids....

friend #1 sold the car for what was left on the note to friend #2, and the parents of friend #2 loaned/gave him the money to buy it.
friend #1 never really drove it, and it was a mid-life crisis buy. just wanted out of the note so he could buy the motorcycle he wants
...but also just wanted to help friend #2

And friend #2 is not rich. He and his wife were both unemployed last year, used up most of their savings.
And they live in a working class neighborhood.

friend #2 and wife say they are uncomfortable with the looks they get from people, that THINK they have a lot of money.
But it was a deal. And in a few years, they hope to trade it in, or buy something else...or will have a little cash to keep if they sell it.

they are also facing having to move to private health insurance after their cobra runs out in a few months. he's working a job with no bennies...and she's working part time looking for a job with bennies.

people hard up can be driving nice cars. it happens.