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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:11 PM Original message |
I'm a big supporter of Socialism. However, I don't see how |
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ReggieVeggie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:12 PM Response to Original message |
1. not a silent thread, a copycat thread |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:19 PM Response to Reply #1 |
8. Nope. This is a discussion thread. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
16. can't be a copycat thread unless it's silent. nt |
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pintobean (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:31 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Shhhhhhh |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
2. I don't think you'd have to rewrite the constitution for the U.S. to go in a more |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:18 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. I think you would. In our Constitution, the powers of government |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:47 PM Response to Reply #7 |
28. I think Medicare sets a precedent |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:52 PM Response to Reply #28 |
33. Yes, I'm a Medicare recipient. |
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Prof Lester (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:45 PM Response to Reply #28 |
69. We already have that. |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:24 PM Response to Reply #2 |
80. Because the "will of the people" doesn't mean much |
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Drale (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
3. We are never going to become a pure socialist country |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:20 PM Response to Reply #3 |
10. That might be possible, but would require some serious legislation |
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Demoiselle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:36 PM Response to Reply #3 |
76. Is there a "pure" socialist country in the world anymore.. |
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Drale (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:40 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Thats what I'm saying |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:13 PM Response to Original message |
4. DUZY! |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:18 PM Response to Original message |
5. Assuming that we agree upon a definition for that word, I keep wondering why we don't learn how to |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:21 PM Response to Reply #5 |
11. Now that would be doable, even today. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:56 PM Response to Reply #11 |
38. I don't think they have. Credit unions almost survived the recession unskathed. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:59 PM Response to Reply #38 |
44. That's true. You're right. |
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blondeatlast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:17 PM Response to Reply #5 |
57. I just visited a rather small town that is managing just fine without |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 10:28 AM Response to Reply #57 |
117. There's so much about "America" that we need to make a conscious commitment to, stuff |
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Dyedinthewoolliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:18 PM Response to Original message |
6. Nowhere in the Constitution |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:25 PM Response to Reply #6 |
13. The Constitution doesn't spell out capitalism as the means of |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:06 PM Response to Reply #13 |
70. Vice laws put the lie to that statement.. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:59 PM Response to Reply #6 |
43. It does lay out a constitutional basis for private property, patents, and copyright. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #43 |
122. Fifth Amendment |
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formernaderite (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:01 PM Response to Reply #6 |
47. our constitution spells out a limited role for federal control |
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Dyedinthewoolliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 09:58 PM Response to Reply #47 |
106. Oh I'm not saying it would ever happen. |
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nonperson (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:19 PM Response to Original message |
9. It seems to me |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:16 PM Response to Reply #9 |
89. Good points. |
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senseandsensibility (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 10:12 PM Response to Reply #9 |
109. Welcome to DU! |
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nonperson (901 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 07:30 AM Response to Reply #109 |
128. Thank you both for welcoming me to DU |
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DisgustipatedinCA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:21 PM Response to Original message |
12. just define socialism and you're halfway there |
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chaska (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:26 PM Response to Original message |
14. Evolve or die.... |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:29 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. It just seems to me that the process must be defined before |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:47 PM Response to Reply #17 |
27. Government, through its licensing franchise, could move us |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #27 |
36. Hmm....I'm with you on the licensing thing, but |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:28 PM Response to Reply #36 |
74. I should have said 'licensing\permitting' franchise. By only |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:17 PM Response to Reply #74 |
91. Yes. I'm not certain there are any inherent barriers, although I do |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 08:56 PM Response to Reply #91 |
102. It may happen sooner than you think, especially if the double-dip |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:26 PM Response to Original message |
15. What specific provisions do you think would cause trouble? |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:32 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Yes, that would be a primary issue. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #15 |
22. I've always understood the assumption of some form of "takings" only as a consequence of |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:40 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. The society... |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:48 PM Response to Reply #24 |
29. I agree completely and see at least part of that as a result of mistaking phony value for real value |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:58 PM Response to Reply #15 |
42. Agreed. The takings would start out as perhaps small markets, in which it is agreed |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:00 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. P.S. Kind of like what is going on in organic food-circles right now. That's income that |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:29 PM Response to Original message |
18. That is the point of Marxist dialectics. It can't be "implemented" from above. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:38 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. I never implied that it could be done by decree. That's pretty much |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:14 PM Response to Reply #23 |
56. Envisioning the transformation as an act of "will" is what socialists call "idealism" |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:27 PM Response to Reply #23 |
61. Glad that you agree that socialism is impossible to implement from above. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:34 PM Response to Original message |
21. Winston Churchill said |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:43 PM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Very well put. Thank you. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:28 PM Response to Reply #25 |
62. Imbalanced distribution of wealth is unsustainable |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:13 PM Response to Reply #62 |
88. A good point. However, we seem to have accepted it to a very |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:50 PM Response to Reply #25 |
83. This would be my idea........... |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:10 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. Thanks for your serious comment. |
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white_wolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:45 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. That quote shows that Churchill really didn't understand socialism at all. |
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ThomWV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:48 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. But you do .... |
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white_wolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:51 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. I do. Much more than Churchill. For starters I know that the Soviet system under |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:56 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. Yes, clearly Stalin's system was nothing like socialism. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:50 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. Thanks for joining the thread. You're smart. Do you have any |
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white_wolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:57 PM Response to Reply #31 |
39. I'm going to assume that wasn't sarcasm, because you don't seem like the type. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:02 PM Response to Reply #39 |
49. No, I'm not being sarcastic at all. I can be, but I signal my sarcasm |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:21 PM Response to Reply #26 |
72. I don't know what Churchill thought, my point in using it |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:52 PM Response to Original message |
34. Do you know what 'supporter' means? |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:57 PM Response to Reply #34 |
40. I'm far from arguing against anything. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:18 PM Response to Reply #40 |
58. First line of my post: |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:53 PM Response to Original message |
35. The US constitution is compatible with socialism and even full on communism. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 03:58 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. OK, so how do we move things along in that direction? |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:00 PM Response to Reply #41 |
46. How was Medicare implemented? SS? Post office? The VA? |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:06 PM Response to Reply #46 |
52. Exactly. Precisely. And that's the key to this whole thing. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:33 PM Response to Reply #52 |
63. There were active socialist and communist parties at the time. There was a real fear that inspired |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:01 PM Response to Reply #63 |
85. Truth, read truth!........ |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:19 PM Response to Reply #63 |
92. Yes there were. They had little impact. The Depression was the |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 10:49 PM Response to Reply #92 |
110. They had major impact. If Stalinism hadn't've taken root in the USSR, it would have been a bigger |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:02 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. Regulate trade industries, single payer health care, education, housing "assistance." |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:06 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. IOW, Real Values. nt |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:08 PM Response to Reply #48 |
54. Would that not require legislatures who might possibly do that? |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:39 PM Response to Reply #54 |
66. I agree. But its important to qualify what "moving our legislatures in that direction" really means. |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:28 PM Response to Reply #66 |
97. Well put. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:43 PM Response to Reply #54 |
67. Absolutely, but you don't get elected on such platforms. |
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rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:04 PM Response to Original message |
50. The Constitution is subservient to economic forces. |
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WillyT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:08 PM Response to Original message |
53. Aren't The Military, Police, Firefighters, Public Educators, Etc., A Form Of Socialism ??? |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:09 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Of course they are. That's not in question. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:24 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Fighting austerity measures is the best place to start. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:21 PM Response to Reply #59 |
94. Interesting ideas. Do you think this must happen incrementally, |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:14 PM Response to Reply #94 |
113. It depends on what you mean by incremental and what is changing incrementally. |
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HereSince1628 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:38 PM Response to Reply #53 |
65. I'm no longer certain the military promotes the public good |
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sabrina 1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:26 PM Response to Original message |
60. The U.S. Government runs the biggest socialist program |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:31 PM Response to Reply #60 |
98. *applause* |
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southernyankeebelle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:36 PM Response to Original message |
64. I always considered myself a social dem. Nothing wrong with government. |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 04:44 PM Response to Original message |
68. Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States |
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jody (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:11 PM Response to Original message |
71. patrice #5 and others said, first agree on the definition. That'll take until the twelfth of never. |
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prairierose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:22 PM Response to Original message |
73. Democratic socialism in Europe works within ... |
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Zax2me (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:31 PM Response to Original message |
75. True. In so many ways. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:40 PM Response to Original message |
77. I don't think we would have to rewrite the Constitution |
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TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 05:47 PM Response to Original message |
79. I see little, if anything, that would prohibit socialism in the Constitution. |
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cherokeeprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:25 PM Response to Original message |
81. Silently rec'ing this.... shhhh! n/t |
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TransitJohn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:37 PM Response to Original message |
82. This thread is trollery and flamebait of the highest order. |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:02 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Or, you have nothing to contribute to the thread. |
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franzia99 (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 06:53 PM Response to Original message |
84. How do you define socialism? |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
90. OK, I've read the whole thread and commented ....... |
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MineralMan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:32 PM Response to Reply #90 |
99. Many people feel as you do. I'm just not sure that there is the |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:49 PM Response to Reply #99 |
100. Well just remember that it doesn't take a majority |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:20 PM Response to Reply #99 |
114. There are, in fact, much larger protest numbers. |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 10:32 AM Response to Reply #114 |
118. And this is where I part with some of my comrades |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 10:39 AM Response to Reply #90 |
119. Sounds to me as though each person's commitment to what they were trying to do was NOT left |
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Cleita (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:20 PM Response to Original message |
93. I think the preamble actually hints at a socialistic goal for |
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socialist_n_TN (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:50 PM Response to Reply #93 |
101. Yep that "general welfare" clause is where I base........ |
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Scruffy1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:22 PM Response to Original message |
95. Socialism is completely constitutional |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 09:15 PM Response to Reply #95 |
104. McCarthy only worked this for a few years and we're still dealing |
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theophilus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 07:26 PM Response to Original message |
96. If enough of the people want to do socialist things in the U.S. they will get done. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 09:13 PM Response to Original message |
103. Our Constitution doesn't mandate any specific economic system -- and so what if it did? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #103 |
120. It is. But isn't that a matter of how capital is defined? What if we went with |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 12:46 PM Response to Reply #120 |
123. Didn't the rightwing use "Adam Smith" to distort economics -- much as they have done with |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 01:32 PM Response to Reply #123 |
124. I think the RW's propensity for warping things would apply to Adam Smith as much as anything else. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:42 AM Response to Reply #124 |
126. PBS certainly helped with pushing Milton Friedman and his ideas -- |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 01:46 PM Response to Reply #123 |
125. Plus: Wouldn't one of the best ways to resist a frame be to co-opt it for one's own purposes? nt |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 01:44 AM Response to Reply #125 |
127. That's the old rightwing/elite pattern -- co-option -- i.e., DLC and Dem Party -- !! |
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fishwax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 09:57 PM Response to Original message |
105. I don't think it requires a rewriting of the Constitution |
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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 10:04 PM Response to Original message |
107. Go talk to Bernie Sanders. He will explain it to you. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 10:06 PM Response to Original message |
108. We already have socialist elements. The ones even the Rightwingers love. |
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applegrove (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:04 PM Response to Original message |
111. All nations in the world are mixed market economies. Pure socialism and pure fascism lost. |
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white_wolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:07 PM Response to Reply #111 |
112. Pure Socialism has never existed. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:24 PM Response to Reply #112 |
116. +1 |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-23-11 11:23 PM Response to Reply #111 |
115. All the nations in the world are not "mixed" they are capitalists. |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-24-11 11:00 AM Response to Original message |
121. We already have socialism here... |
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moondust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 07:50 AM Response to Reply #121 |
129. Yes, it's always a blend. |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-25-11 03:07 PM Response to Reply #129 |
130. That is correct... |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 12:30 PM Response to Original message |
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